[HN Gopher] Six mistakes I made in my dioramas-and-felt Steam ga...
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       Six mistakes I made in my dioramas-and-felt Steam game and one I
       didn't
        
       Author : mjd
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2025-03-14 16:41 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (novalis.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (novalis.org)
        
       | mjd wrote:
       | Dave Turner is making a point-and-click game with no CGI. All the
       | locations are real-world dioramas he built and photographed.
       | Special effects are done with stop-motion animation of felt.
       | 
       | Dave says: Often when you watch videos of people doing crafts on
       | the internet, they're people who have been doing it for years.
       | They don't make mistakes, or if they do, they don't really show
       | them to you. I haven't been doing any of these crafts for years.
       | So I've made lots of mistakes, and I want to show them to you, so
       | you don't get the impression that this is easy.
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | Last thing we need on HN is low quality twitter bots
         | reiterating what's been written.
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | The irony of course here is that _mjd_ is a fantastic author
           | and contributor, and not a Twitter bot. That said, it does
           | read like an AI summary.
        
           | maxbond wrote:
           | Note that GP is the submitter of the article. I don't read
           | this as low-effort engagement bait, but as an explanation of
           | why they found this article worthy of sharing on HN.
        
       | merelysounds wrote:
       | > But it would have been a mistake to build High Mountain Abbey
       | in Rust.
       | 
       | I didn't expect avoiding the custom engine side quest in a game
       | with a very custom art style; kudos!
       | 
       | I think there may be an even bigger mistake avoided here: many
       | indie devs build amazing projects and don't talk about them
       | enough. If you ever created something you enjoyed, wanted to
       | share it and somehow didn't, watch and learn; I know I should!
        
       | SanitaryThinkin wrote:
       | Love the creativity here, this is novel game level design.
       | 
       | Can't wait to see the finished game. The blog posts are a part of
       | the journey
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | _The Dream Machine_ from Cockroach and of course _The Neverhood_
       | from Doug TenNapel are some fantastic prior art here. TenNapel
       | even reused his skills to make _Armikrog_ two decades later.
       | 
       | I wonder if the creators of these physically rendered games ever
       | get together to talk shop, or even host a conference, on the
       | topic of non-linear animation and storytelling. It's the sort of
       | thing that I, as someone who merely consumes their content and is
       | absolutely nowhere near being able to replicate their skill,
       | would love to take part in.
       | 
       | Comic-Con but for games done the hard way. _Thimbleweed Park_ ,
       | another remake in the animated adventure game genre, actually has
       | a scene in it that's based on a conference for real-life point-
       | and-click games developers.
        
         | graynk wrote:
         | I'm so glad somebody else has heard of The Dream Machine, it's
         | great!
         | 
         | Harold Halibut is also worth a look, though it's not fully
         | stop-motion I believe
        
           | atombender wrote:
           | Harold Halibut isn't stop motion at all; they made physical
           | puppets and then scanned them into Unity and tried to
           | replicate the look.
           | 
           | It's a gorgeous game, but I was really disappointed in the
           | gameplay. I wouldn't even call it a game; it's basically a
           | movie where you sometimes interact with things, but
           | everything is scripted.
        
             | graynk wrote:
             | Ahhh, sad to hear that, I only played the demo
        
         | flocciput wrote:
         | Hylics by Mason Lindroth is the only other thing I'd ever seen
         | do the "physical art" thing in a videogame. I love it a lot, so
         | now curious about the other games you've mentioned! Thanks for
         | the recs.
        
           | gorgoiler wrote:
           | With respect to Doug TenNapel's contribution to the field,
           | Armikrog is only of interest I think to die-hard nostalgia
           | fans. Maybe one day it will be (or already has been?)
           | remastered into an even better game, but when I played it on
           | release it was more like a mise en place of a great meal than
           | a great meal itself.
           | 
           |  _The Dream Machine_ is all out body horror excellence from
           | an indie studio in the truest sense. The fact that they saw
           | the project through to the end, in real time, over the course
           | of several years and while communicating the whole time with
           | their Kickstarter backers is just as impressive as the game
           | itself. Pure brilliance.
        
           | timpark wrote:
           | There's only a demo out so far, but Scarlet Deer Inn uses
           | embroidery for its character images.
           | 
           | https://store.steampowered.com/app/1553260/Scarlet_Deer_Inn/
        
             | addaon wrote:
             | Is it multi-threaded?
        
       | ashoeafoot wrote:
       | Lol, the technique directing the art. Now everywhere a observer
       | behind the wall would love to peep, there is a picture or lamp in
       | the diorama. Basically , the artstyle subconsciously went towards
       | subconciius thriller/horrorhouse with that .
        
       | metaphor wrote:
       | > _With seven rooms photographed so far, my repo right now is 53
       | GB, since I 'm storing all of the photos that go into each focus-
       | stack, as well as the raw (xcf) versions of each shot so that I
       | can edit and color-correct without repeated JPEG compression._
       | 
       | I wonder how the author manages this bloat if he has to pivot to
       | a different workstation. LFS enabled in his GitLab instance?
       | Shallow clone? Just swallow whole??
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | you can copy/move/clone the local repo you already have. no
         | need to clone from remote just to switch to a different
         | machine.
        
           | metaphor wrote:
           | To clarify, assume in good faith that _pivot_ in context
           | means compelled towards involuntary action---i.e. unexpected
           | loss of local data, as opposed to a matter of routine shift
           | in workflow---where the remote forge is being tapped for its
           | secondary function as off-site backup.
           | 
           | The question was more intended to probe remote UX resilience
           | near the limits of pain when faced with massive git repos
           | which primarily capture binary assets/artifacts.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | i find that interpretation a bit of a stretch. you could
             | have expressed that more clearly. especially given that the
             | obvious solution is to have local backups. what else could
             | you do?
             | 
             | i have been discussing this on HN before in the context of
             | a multi TB archive of photos and videos (part of which
             | happened to be for a film project, so similar
             | considerations apply). raid, external disk, and remote
             | copy. for the film footage, everyone working with it has a
             | full copy too, even if they don't need all of it. just in
             | case. if you need to work with the data there is pretty
             | much no other option.
        
       | gmueckl wrote:
       | Two disjoint comments:
       | 
       | 1. Film sets contain wild walls that can be easily removed to
       | accommodate light and camera placement outside the space looking
       | inwards. Wild walls in the dioramas could have prevented the
       | necessity of cutting holes.
       | 
       | 2. Git is not the right SCM for the job. My first choice would
       | have been Plastic a few years ago, but this got rolled into Unity
       | DevOps after an acquisition. But it is meant to accommodate truly
       | vast repositories (53GB isn't actually that big). The second best
       | choice is SVN - yes, really.
        
         | Negitivefrags wrote:
         | I find it funny how often people look down on SVN outside of
         | game development. It really is a great tool for that job.
         | 
         | The trunk our of studio's SVN is hundreds of GB and the full
         | repo is many TB. And SVN handles this no problem.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | What is it that SVN does particularly well here? Handle
           | binaries?
        
             | gmueckl wrote:
             | Yes, SVN handles large amounts of big binary rather
             | efficiently. It employs some binary diffing internally to
             | keep storage usage low.
             | 
             | The centralized model also allows optional file locking,
             | which reduces the risk of accidental merges destroying a
             | file. This is a major concern for files that aren't source
             | code when no dedicated merge tool exists.
             | 
             | Also, the centralized storage of the repo history becomes a
             | bit of a bonus at this scale as it doesn't need to be
             | replicated to each client, saving a little bit on disk
             | storage and data transfers.
             | 
             | The one unfortunate downside of SVN is the implementation
             | of merging between branches. That relies on per-file merge
             | histories that are partially stored in per-file properties.
             | This is opaque, internal information, yet it is tracked the
             | same way as file changes. This leads to situations where
             | it's all too easy to discard some of the merge history with
             | harmless looking operations like reverting a file between a
             | local merge and its merge commit to get rid of an unwanted
             | change. Once something like this happens, future merges end
             | up doing random looking things like re-applying changes
             | that have already been merged. This is a major part of what
             | gives SVN its bad reputation. You really have to tread on
             | eggshells when merging. If you can avoid the pitfalls,
             | merging works well. But it requires rather deep knowledge
             | of SVN and discipline.
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | With LFS handling assets with Git shouldn't be a problem. From
         | the sounds of it, the biggest problem they had here was not in
         | the technology but GitLabs pricing which doesn't separate LFS
         | storage. For example GitHub and BitBucket have separate pricing
         | for LFS, both at more reasonable $.1/GB, i.e. five times
         | cheaper than GitLab. If I'm reading it right Azure even offers
         | LFS for free(!).
         | 
         | Technically I believe you can even have LFS hosted in different
         | place than the repo itself, although I don't know if these
         | commercial providers handle such case. But in theory you could
         | host your git repo at gitlab.com and selfhost lfs if you want
         | to penny pinch.
        
           | petertodd wrote:
           | Git-annex is another good option: https://git-
           | annex.branchable.com/
           | 
           | I've been using it for many years now for data repos like
           | photos. IIUC one advantage it has over LFS is its model makes
           | it easier to store data in many different places (though I
           | don't use LFS myself).
        
           | gmueckl wrote:
           | The one standout quality that git LFS has in my experience is
           | the rate at which working copies with LFS enabled shred
           | themselves and become unrecoverable. I've seen this on
           | multiple projects and different users now and it doesn't give
           | me the confidence I'd need to rely on it for a big project.
           | 
           | I'm sure that there will be people replying that this is
           | anecdotal etc. But this is my personal experience and what
           | shapes my recommendations.
        
         | timdiggerm wrote:
         | Yeah, this plus the apparent lack-of-planning regarding lenses
         | & field of view make me wonder if OP had any of the background
         | they should have had in stop-motion animation?
        
           | hnbad wrote:
           | Are there any prior examples for AI interpolation in stop-
           | motion animation?
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | This is the sort of project that, no matter how much you
           | know, or think you know, and no matter how much experience
           | you had, it'll still bring you right back down to Earth and
           | humble you somehow. There is no curriculum for preparing for
           | this. There is only "jump in and figure it out as you go".
           | 
           | So let's not criticize anyone for jumping in and figuring it
           | out as they go, as it is the only way to produce a project
           | like this.
        
       | esperent wrote:
       | > So what I should have done is: first, create the Steam page for
       | the game, then post the first blog post. Well, better late than
       | never: please wishlist the game.
       | 
       | In case the author is reading: anywhere that's not Steam to
       | wishlist or buy the game? This would be a definite purchase from
       | me on GOG - well, if it reviews reasonably well. I love quirky
       | and unusual graphical styles.
       | 
       | But I have never, and probably _will_ never, buy game from
       | anywhere that requires me to install a launcher and look at
       | advertising before I get to play.
        
         | inexcf wrote:
         | >But I have never, and probably will never, buy game from
         | anywhere that requires me to install a launcher and look at
         | advertising before I get to play.
         | 
         | You'll be happy to hear that Steam does not require you to do
         | any of that. If the game does not heavily rely on Steam
         | services you don't have to have Steam started at all. I just
         | tested some games and i could just start them from the
         | executable without Steam running. I also disabled the news
         | window you can get on startup and the Steam client starts on
         | the library, not the store page.
         | 
         | So have fun.
        
           | PufPufPuf wrote:
           | Some games on Steam are truly "DRM-free", but the default way
           | is to use the Steamworks DLL which tries to open the game
           | through Steam if the exe was clicked directly. This "DRM" is
           | trivial to remove with the right tools (if not accompanied by
           | a real DRM), but still you'd be basically cracking the games
           | you bought.
           | 
           | GOG (and also Itch and sometimes Humble) simply gives you an
           | installer with no DRM at all, meaning that the games will
           | continue to work even if GOG blows up.
           | 
           | So yeah, that's why some people prefer buying on GOG over
           | Steam. That, and European patriotism, sometimes.
           | 
           | Creators are sometimes afraid of this model, sadly, due to
           | the perceived increased potential of piracy. Even though CD
           | PROJEKT RED have repeatedly demonstrated that they can sell
           | their own games with zero DRM and still dominate the top
           | selling charts.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | But there's no way to download your games without Steam,
           | right?
        
             | gothroach wrote:
             | The only ways I'm aware of to download your Steam games are
             | through the Steam desktop client or using the SteamCMD
             | command-line client.
             | 
             | Edit: I think people really sleep on SteamCMD, I really
             | like using it.
             | 
             | https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD
        
         | steeleduncan wrote:
         | From a developer point of view GOG has the most hoops to jump
         | through of all PC platforms, for very few users, so it wouldn't
         | make a lot of sense
         | 
         | Itch.io would be more reasonable. It doesn't have a lot of
         | users, but it is trivial to setup, and doesn't require a
         | launcher
        
       | admiralrohan wrote:
       | The steam marketing part is interesting. You said your post got
       | viral, can you share the hackernews submission post? Can't see in
       | your profile.
       | 
       | Want to understand the user journey, as if people show interet
       | they should check the game out.
        
         | recursivecaveat wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure it was this post, which I found by searching
         | the domain: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41884283
        
       | mauvehaus wrote:
       | Walnut burl veneer is inevitably both warped and also brittle.
       | 
       | If you're going to use it, it's worth making up or buying veneer
       | flattening solution, wetting the veneer with it, and clamping it
       | between two pieces of melamine or plywood with some packing paper
       | to get it flat without destroying it. Change the paper a couple
       | times as the veneer dries.
       | 
       | Once it's flattened, you can glue it down using a caul (one of
       | the pieces of melamine you used to flatten it will work) to hold
       | the veneer flat to your hopefully flat substrate while the glue
       | dries, or you can hammer veneer it with hide glue.
       | 
       | Hammer veneering doesn't risk gluing your caul to your veneer,
       | but it does require a warmer shop, and I wouldn't want to do e.g.
       | a dining table that way. Melamine cauls usually pop free pretty
       | readily if they do get glued to the veneer. If you don't have or
       | want to buy melamine, a packing paper layer between the veneer
       | and the caul will help, as will covering the caul with packing
       | tape.
       | 
       | Ideally, you don't end up with a lot of glue bleeding through the
       | veneer, but burl veneer tends to wick it through.
        
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