[HN Gopher] Alphabet spins out Taara - Internet over lasers
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Alphabet spins out Taara - Internet over lasers
        
       Author : tadeegan
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2025-03-17 16:55 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (x.company)
 (TXT) w3m dump (x.company)
        
       | loloquwowndueo wrote:
       | It'll go down at the first sign of rain. We've been there with
       | microwave internet.
        
         | panarky wrote:
         | That's an incredibly insightful observation, I'm sure they've
         | never considered that and will be really disappointed the first
         | time there's rain or fog.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | The implication being that you know more about this technology
         | than then people building it and funding it.
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | Being that I've not seen an actual technology relase from
           | this company so far it's up to them to quell the doubts.
        
             | matt3210 wrote:
             | What about Waymo?
        
           | loloquwowndueo wrote:
           | At one point we bought a fancy (for the time) microwave link
           | to cover a distance of about 3km. We specifically asked
           | whether it would be affected by weather conditions. We were
           | assured multiple times in the most confident of terms that it
           | would not be a problem, the technology was tested and such
           | eventualities accounted for with various features and
           | failsafes.
           | 
           | The thing proceeded to go down every time it rained, and no
           | amount of tweaking settings, power, phase, polarity or
           | orientation helped. This is the manufacturer/vendor doing the
           | tweaks, mind you, not clueless me (I wouldn't dream of
           | touching this arcane technology I knew nothing about).
           | 
           | In the end we ditched the microwave and went with a good old
           | copper link which worked without a hitch regardless of the
           | weather.
           | 
           | So since you are, in your own sarcastic way, asking how I
           | know, this is how: from experience. I don't know about the
           | technology but I do know about when they promise you it will
           | work in the rain.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | Rain fade is sort of a solved problem in microwave comms
             | [1]. Earlier than that, it was predictable.
             | 
             | Laser comms aren't going to be useful in Houston. They'll
             | probably be a game changer for swarms of drones at
             | altitude, anything in space and the sorts of arid, weather-
             | stable places we like to build data centres.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_fade
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | By the way you say you "bought a fancy microwave link" it
             | sounds like you were bamboozled by the vendor. Exactly what
             | manufacturer, model of radios, antenna configuration and
             | other configuration was this that failed to work in rain?
        
         | __turbobrew__ wrote:
         | I know nothing about this technology but there are ways to get
         | around similar issues. For example, twisted pair cables encode
         | data as the DIFFERENCE between the two signals as those signals
         | should be affected by the same noise sources. They could also
         | transmit multiple redundant flows and error correct on the
         | other side with a voting protocol or checksumming.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Fog is a bigger problem, it says here. (Also heavy snow, per
           | the RONJA link in the other comment.)
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-
           | range_optical_wireless_co...
           | 
           | This problem was possibly solved in the ten years since it
           | defeated those four or five startups? Or not solved, who can
           | say.
        
           | echoangle wrote:
           | The differential signalling only helps if the noise offsets
           | both signals in the same direction though. If it just
           | attenuates (which fog for example will do to optical
           | signals), it won't help you. And the other method you
           | described could work (depending on the SNR of course, at some
           | point effectively no signal will come through the fog) but
           | will lower data rate.
        
         | culi wrote:
         | I haven't heard of microwave internet. Any recommended
         | readings?
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission
        
         | bilalel wrote:
         | They seem to take poor weather condition into account as they
         | reserve an amount of power to keep the link up and stable
         | (equipment would be capable of pushing up to 75km) Those were
         | data from first tests they did, might be interesting if they
         | can confirm that in future updates.
        
       | dhbradshaw wrote:
       | Great for space
        
       | cma wrote:
       | Wait, "Google X" is now just known as "X"? So there is a separate
       | "X" from Alphabet and "X" from tweet all day guy?
        
         | pityJuke wrote:
         | Since 2016 [0]
         | 
         | [0]: https://money.cnn.com/2016/01/18/technology/google-x-new-
         | log...
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | What this means is that in the next 5 years Microsoft will name
         | 3 different things X.
        
           | darth_aardvark wrote:
           | They only need 1 more to hit that, since they got 2 in the
           | Xbox Series X.
        
           | psunavy03 wrote:
           | . . . and put them in a box.
        
         | andrewl-hn wrote:
         | The most peculiar detail: at the bottom of https://x.company
         | website in the socials column they literally have a link "X
         | (not us)" to https://www.twitter.com/theteamatx
        
       | srameshc wrote:
       | I thought this was a link to X(twitter) but this is a Google X
        
         | black_puppydog wrote:
         | Big tech deserves to burn for their evolution in naming alone.
        
       | almosthere wrote:
       | Unfortunately anyone out of Google is not ambitious enough. They
       | can't execute. Tiny steps don't accomplish anything.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | The second episode of the Google Moonshot podcast covers this:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLaYGw5_PE0
        
       | EvanAnderson wrote:
       | RONJA[0] with lasers? >smile<
       | 
       | Free space optics always seemed like a neat idea. For space-based
       | communication, particularly if your "mission" involves as little
       | stray emission as possible, I would think free space optics would
       | be a win.
       | 
       | I would assume there's more error correction, but otherwise I
       | wonder how dramatically this differs from modulating light on a
       | fiber. It seems like a similar problem.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
        
       | xiphias2 wrote:
       | There's no mention of Starlink, the main competitor (not fiber).
       | 
       | Whenever I travel and see the high latencies in hotel, I'm
       | waiting for being able to Starlink from my mobile phone.
       | 
       | It requires huge antennas on the satellites, but we're getting
       | closer to that with every Strarship launch.
        
         | matt3210 wrote:
         | starlink is a competitor of T_Mobile, not Taara. Taara is just
         | a supplier for T-Mobile (example).
        
       | fsh wrote:
       | This section from the marketing blurb doesn't sound too
       | promising:
       | 
       |  _When atmospheric conditions disrupt the light, our adaptive
       | rate and hybrid architecture maintains the connection, with
       | minimal downtime._
       | 
       | In the long run, all these wireless technologies (satellite or
       | optical/microwave terrestrial links) will have a very hard time
       | competing with simply laying down some optical fiber.
        
         | darksaints wrote:
         | Optical fiber is absolutely the simplest and best option for
         | almost any form of long distance connectivity. Maybe this
         | technology will become cost/performance competitive in about 15
         | years after the HFT firms have invested billions trying to
         | extract an extra cent out of our financial markets.
        
         | culi wrote:
         | That's not the market they're going for though. They're more of
         | a competitor to Starlink
         | 
         | There's also obvious applications to places where weather is
         | more predictable. There's plenty of areas and small towns in
         | the Great Basin region that have basically no internet. This
         | would be a quick and easy way to set those places up with
         | internet with more reliability than something like starlink
        
           | fsh wrote:
           | The problem with selling inferior technologies is that sooner
           | or later people are going to stop using them (even in the
           | Grad Basin region). Not exactly a recipe for success.
        
           | pdabbadabba wrote:
           | But why would these not be places already served by
           | terrestrial wireless internet service providers? It seems
           | like it would be much easier and generally more attractive to
           | serve locations like this using, for example, 5 GHz.
           | 
           | Normally, the lack of (near) line-of-sight is one of the
           | biggest limiting to those sorts of deployments, but that
           | would also have to be solved for any place being served with
           | FSO.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | a point to point terrestrial bridge large piece of equipment
           | that costs $5,000+, needs a professional to install it, and
           | works on either free space optics or V-band or E-band radio
           | is not in any way a competitor to starlink. It's more a place
           | to take a 1 to 10 Gbps ethernet connection as a link between
           | two towers or roofs that can 'see' each other as an
           | alternative to where laying fiber may be cost prohibitive or
           | would take too long to build (or both).
           | 
           | Assuming this thing doesn't utterly fail in rain at a
           | moderate distance, this would be something you use to feed a
           | POP which then redistributes service to end users by some
           | totally other technology (5/6 GHz band PTMP radio system,
           | GPON, XGSPON, G.fast on copper, docsis3/docsis3.1, etc)
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | It's interesting at 36 to look back at what I think would
         | disrupt connectivity a decade ago:
         | 
         | - Google Fiber (it wasn't possible to do it cheaper than
         | incumbents, so it devolved to standard incumbent x why would
         | 40% margin company invest billions to get Comcast's peak profit
         | margin of ~15% profit)
         | 
         | - Starry Internet (too expensive to build out, I have it and
         | it's good, but the company certainly didn't scale)
         | 
         | - 5G in general (strictly inferior to incumbent, speed isn't
         | faster, latency is higher, not as reliable)
         | 
         | It's hard for me to wrap my mind around why this would work at
         | all, sounds like a more-susceptible-to-bad-conditions version
         | of Starry.
         | 
         | I keep wondering how people make Starlink work, my
         | understanding is the connection degrades then stops then
         | reconnects every...idk, 5 minutes? as the satellites go
         | overhead.
        
           | miloignis wrote:
           | From my perspective, Google Fiber 100% disrupted connectivity
           | - it woke the incumbents up and made them offer competitive
           | Fiber. In that sense, they succeeded! My last three
           | connections from my last three ISPs have all been gigabit
           | (one of which was Google Fiber, easily the best internet I've
           | ever had). I think they're expanding again, too, though I
           | wish they had stayed as aggressive with rollout as they
           | started.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | That's a really good point, back home, Verizon didn't
             | bother with Fios investment until then.
        
             | jerlam wrote:
             | Ironically, Google Fiber purchased a wireless provider -
             | Webpass - back in 2016 which is deployed in parallel to
             | their fiber offerings.
        
           | cbg0 wrote:
           | > 5G in general (strictly inferior to incumbent, speed isn't
           | faster, latency is higher, not as reliable)
           | 
           | I'm guessing this is a US thing? In Europe, 5G is definitely
           | faster while latency is on par with 4G. YMMMV between EU
           | countries though.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | You're right, it's definitely better than 4G, my wording
             | was unclear, more in the sense of "Would I make this my
             | home ISP?" than "how did 5G go?" (I would have thought cell
             | providers would have 20-30% of the market now, ah, the
             | follys of youth...)
        
           | calebio wrote:
           | > I keep wondering how people make Starlink work, my
           | understanding is the connection degrades then stops then
           | reconnects every...idk, 5 minutes? as the satellites go
           | overhead.
           | 
           | That is not a correct understanding for how the Starlink
           | network behaves today[0]. While I can't speak for using it
           | outside of the U.S., I have not faced any interruptions
           | outside of a few times during very severe weather.
           | 
           | [0] in the early days of the constellation, there were sub-
           | second or a few second drops when there was no satellite
           | overhead. But this dropped off very quickly once the
           | constellation size increased.
        
             | refulgentis wrote:
             | I see, tyty (been wondering for quite some time)
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | The key breakthrough for 5G was allowing ~10x the number of
           | devices to connect to a node compared to 4G. 5G is what
           | allowed the toppling of data caps that was by far the #1
           | consumer complaint for years. 4G just couldn't handle heavy
           | loads well, so data caps were needed to constrain demand.
           | 
           | Teleco's aren't going to say this out load, but it's the real
           | reason why they were so celebratory about 5G, despite it
           | coming off like just a renamed 4G to the average user.
        
             | stnmtn wrote:
             | Why would they not be loud about it? I think "We've built
             | out 5G so we can get rid of your data caps!" is a message
             | any telecom would want to broadcast out, unless I'm missing
             | something
        
               | conception wrote:
               | They don't want to get rid of your data caps. They want
               | to get rid of their data bandwidth limitations.
        
             | jampekka wrote:
             | > 4G just couldn't handle heavy loads well, so data caps
             | were needed to constrain demand.
             | 
             | In many parts of the world uncapped data has been the norm
             | since around GPRS.
        
               | echoangle wrote:
               | Could that be because they aren't as densely populated by
               | users so even if everyone with a phone has no data cap,
               | they won't overload the network? Which countries were
               | that for example?
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | Some of their use-case they are crowing about on their site
         | cover _temporary_ things: back haul for major-but-temporary
         | events, tethered-drone-mounted units for emergency disaster
         | recover where a cell site is taken out etc. Those are the sorts
         | of things where laying fibre 20km for use for just a day or two
         | just isn 't going to happen, but a temporary laser link that
         | you can get up and running in a hour or two would be great.
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | You can say the same thing about running wired ethernet to your
         | TV in the living room. It's simpler and more reliable than
         | wifi. But wifi is much easier and quicker to install. Which one
         | do most people use?
        
           | fsh wrote:
           | For most users (me included), there is zero difference in
           | user experience between using wifi or Ethernet for their TV.
           | Otherwise, running wired Ethernet would probably be a lot
           | more popular.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | So you think. You may be right, but most users won't even
             | realize that a good chunk of their "buffering" / "Internet
             | is slow today" / "Netflix is broken today" problems might
             | just be a WiFi issue, and it would go away if they used a
             | wired connection.
        
         | slowtrek wrote:
         | _"... very hard time competing with simply laying down some
         | optical fiber. "_
         | 
         | You end up learning this in your own home. Some things are fine
         | with a wired ethernet connection, it's really only my laptop
         | and phone that use wifi.
        
       | light_triad wrote:
       | Apparently the biggest problems are line of sight interruptions
       | and cost:
       | 
       | > The team has figured out how to compensate for potential line-
       | of-sight interruptions like bird flights, rain, and wind. (Fog is
       | the biggest impediment)
       | 
       | > "It's fast and reliable but quite expensive." He says he spent
       | around $30,000 for the last light bridge setup he bought from
       | Alphabet for testing.
       | 
       | Interesting that Meta was working on similar tech but abandoned
       | the project:
       | 
       | Google's Taara Hopes to Usher in a New Era of Internet Powered by
       | Light
       | 
       | https://www.wired.com/story/plaintext-google-taara-chip-inte...
       | 
       | More on Meta's internet via lasers project:
       | 
       | https://www.wired.com/2016/01/facebook-zuckerberg-internet-o...
        
         | pmcf wrote:
         | Line of sight issues are simply a wattage issue. A gigawatt
         | laser is impervious to rain, a bird, a flock of birds, a bird
         | and the tree it sitting in. Probably the entire forest. Let's
         | just say there are some solutions well in hand.
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | I like your first sentence as a truism.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | $30,000 is quite nuts when you can buy a 71 to 86 GHz band, 10
         | Gbps full duplex radio bridge for under $6000 today. And it'll
         | likely not completely collapse and fail to link at 1.2 km in
         | moderate rain.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | > _In the same way fiber optic cables in the ground use light to
       | carry data, Taara uses narrow, invisible light beams to transmit
       | information through the air..._
       | 
       | If the light is "invisible" then is it even light? I looked it up
       | and it's infrared.
       | 
       | Do we consider UV and infrared to be light? Or are they UV and
       | infrared period, in _contrast_ to light? I mean, nobody would
       | ever call x-rays or radio waves  "light". You'd never say "it's
       | emitting infrared light", would you?
       | 
       | Or do they just not want to use the word "radiation" in their
       | marketing, because that sounds scary and cancer-causing?
       | 
       | I'm just curious, since "invisible light" immediately jumped out
       | to me as a contradiction in terms.
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | > Do we consider UV and infrared to be light? Or are they UV
         | and infrared period, in contrast to light? I mean, nobody would
         | ever call x-rays or radio waves "light". You'd never say "it's
         | emitting infrared light", would you?
         | 
         | Yes, we do. No, it's not. Yes, they do. Yes, I would.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | People really say "it's emitting x-ray light" or "emitting
           | radio light"?
           | 
           | I've never in my life heard that. That sounds completely
           | wrong to my ears. (Which is why "invisible light" sounded so
           | wrong, too.)
        
             | thesuitonym wrote:
             | You are right that people more frequently say x-ray
             | radiation. But it's the same thing. It's literally the same
             | thing, just at a different frequency. In the same way that
             | we have words for ice, water, and steam, but they're still
             | the same thing, just at different temperatures.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | While "X-ray light" or "radio light" have never been used
             | in any widespread terminology, the existence of "invisible
             | light" has become known at the beginning of the 19th
             | century, when the terms "infrared light" and "ultraviolet
             | light" have been coined for it.
             | 
             | "Invisible light" is light that is invisible for humans,
             | but which is visible for many animals and for many of the
             | devices that are designed to detect visible light.
             | Traditionally, "invisible light" was distinguished from
             | X-rays (with higher frequency) and radiant heat (with lower
             | frequency), because those required different kinds of
             | emitting and detecting devices than those designed for
             | light.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | In the traditional terminology, "ultraviolet" and "infrared"
           | are abbreviations for "ultraviolet light" and "infrared
           | light", so ultraviolet and infrared were definitely always
           | classified as kinds of light.
           | 
           | However, what was initially called "infrared light" is what
           | is called now "near infrared". What is called now "far
           | infrared" was traditionally called "radiant heat", which is a
           | term that dates from before it became understood that both
           | radiant heat and light are electromagnetic waves.
           | 
           | The traditional divisions between radio waves, radiant heat,
           | light and X rays were determined by the fact that each of
           | these 4 required different kinds of emitting and detecting
           | devices. However the evolution of technology has extended the
           | ranges for each kind of emitter and detector, so now the
           | ranges of the corresponding kinds of devices are overlapping,
           | so any precise thresholds in the frequency ranges are only
           | conventional.
        
         | kevindamm wrote:
         | Yes, light is any transmission of photons, and the visible
         | spectrum is only a tiny slice of that.
        
       | seanp2k2 wrote:
       | When I came to Silicon Valley in the early 2010s and realized
       | that all of the king's horses and all of the king's men could not
       | defeat the scourge that is the US ISP oligopoly even in their own
       | backyards, I knew it was pointless to ever hope for real FTTH in
       | Bay Area markets in the next couple of decades.
       | 
       | Wireless solutions have orders of magnitude less bandwidth than
       | fiber, and you can run lots of fiber in a bundle, whereas there's
       | limited spectrum and only one already-saturated RF environment
       | going wireless.
       | 
       | Only in the past few _months_ has Comcast (the only actual high-
       | speed internet option in our fairly typical Silicon Valley
       | suburban neighborhood of ~$2.5m average homes) deigned to offer
       | upload speeds greater than the previous 35mbit cap...now we can
       | push 200mbit for $120 /mo (for 1.2tb monthly combined U+D, add
       | $20 for "unlimited") and you usually have to buy a new modem even
       | if your old one supported the tech, since they only support
       | specific firmware on specific SKUs. Meanwhile, GFiber is offering
       | 8gbps symmetrical for $150/mo unmetered.
       | 
       | Reminder also that Ricochet was wireless internet in _1994_ on
       | 900mhz ISM using FHSS in the Valley. Ooh how far we 've come in
       | 30 years.
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | In Silicon Valley, in a neighborhood of $2.5M homes, and thus
         | household incomes on average of probably $600k+. It should be
         | possible to get a fiber rollout, they aren't that expensive.
         | Make a neighborhood ISP, or try and get a municipal ISP.
        
           | hn_acc1 wrote:
           | I seem to recall a few different "if we get this many signed
           | up" flyers (more East Bay than South) trying to organize
           | something along those lines - maybe the name was Compass?
           | Also try Sonic and see if they have anything for you.
           | 
           | I've had ATT gigabit fiber for ~6(?) years now. And for the
           | first time ever (started with a 300 baud modem in 1985),
           | similar to recent CPU releases, don't feel a compelling need
           | to upgrade. In fact, would consider 0.5 Gbps if it offered
           | substantial savings, since we don't fully use 1 GB. But no
           | caps, and getting measured throughput of 850+ MB/s for $85
           | (started at $70) is affordable (for SV) and has been very
           | reliable other than when the very-early transceiver they
           | installed (I was one of the first to get it) got waterlogged
           | and shorted out - the replacement was installed indoors, so
           | that won't happen again.
           | 
           | I'm not a fan of ATT's corporate policies by any means. But
           | the alternatives are, well.. Comcast with a much worse
           | service (not symmetrical) or some flavor of 5G.
        
         | jerlam wrote:
         | Silicon Valley is an aberration due to its low housing density.
         | Places with more apartments and condos are much more likely to
         | have infrastructure improvements since you can reach a lot more
         | customers with a lot less money.
         | 
         | I live a little north of you, and had Webpass (wireless) in
         | 2012 - $50/mo for 100 Mbps. Now it's $70/mo for 1 Gbps, but I'm
         | with another wireless ISP for $35/mo for 500 Mbps.
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | I'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for .mil
       | usage.
       | 
       | Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms
       | of jamming. Its usage dots the sci books I've read over the
       | years, but almost always for scary reasons.
       | 
       | Here's the Navy today announcing work on AirBorne System for
       | Optical Relay and Broadcast (ABSORB), a (for now) low-cost
       | prototype one-to-many (I maybe mis-inferring what multi-access
       | means?) relayable free space system, https://defence-blog.com/us-
       | navy-plans-to-revolutionize-nava...
        
         | whatever1 wrote:
         | But smoke/cloud kills them.
        
         | lutherqueen wrote:
         | How is better communication scary for military? The weapons
         | themselves are
        
           | FlyingBears wrote:
           | Jam resistant comms are critical for drones, and other
           | precision weapons and their infrastructure. Even if line of
           | sight is interrupted modern drones can return to signal
           | nowadays, relay information, and return to target with
           | corrections. You may not need optical cable anymore
        
             | HeatrayEnjoyer wrote:
             | I expect drones will become fire-and-forget in two to three
             | years. They won't be jammable because the pilot is in the
             | drone.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | Fire-and-forget drones already exist. They are called
               | missiles.
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | Should the military not have internet? If laser based internet
         | is better than satellite or microwave or wireless (I assume the
         | military uses these three). Then isn't that good?
        
           | geek_at wrote:
           | Not if Trump has control over them
        
             | r14c wrote:
             | That's the interesting paradox of technological
             | development. If it's out of the bag, then it's out of bag,
             | but that cuts both ways. You can never control who will
             | gain access to advancements. Even if you trust the
             | custodians now, you don't know who they will be in the
             | future, &c. Eventually you end up at a fork: either pursue
             | and endless technological arms race or find some way to
             | build lasting cooperative and peaceful relationships. As
             | they say, the surest way to destroy your enemy is to make
             | them your friend. Still a massive challenge, but presumably
             | that's why empires eventually always fail. They don't know
             | how to make friends.
        
               | ashoeafoot wrote:
               | There are no warrior cultures in space.
        
         | spwa4 wrote:
         | I think you're too late. Pretty sure the military has line-of-
         | sight free-space-optics to satellites since at least the second
         | Iraq war.
         | 
         | One can only wonder how small the "receivers" (routers, really)
         | have gotten by now.
        
           | rhubarbtree wrote:
           | Cubesats carry laser comms if that's what you mean.
        
             | echoangle wrote:
             | Those work in vacuum though so you need a bit less laser
             | power. The atmosphere attenuates your signal if you're
             | doing ground to ground or ground to aircraft links so you
             | probably need a bit more laser power. But I agree that
             | that's probably not the difficult thing about the whole
             | system.
        
         | umvi wrote:
         | > Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many
         | forms of jamming
         | 
         | The most powerful weapons on earth already are immune to
         | jamming. ICBMs use celestial navigation (pictures of the stars)
         | to course-correct, which is a form of navigation you cannot
         | jam.
        
           | charliebwrites wrote:
           | Damn guess we have to blow up the stars
           | 
           | ...you know, for defense
        
             | echoangle wrote:
             | Or create a lot of artificial ones to confuse the missile.
        
               | rapind wrote:
               | Swarms to block the cameras maybe?
               | 
               | At this point though, couldn't you just blow up your own
               | country and thus accelerate warming so much as to doom
               | the rest of humanity in a dozen years? I might have read
               | the wrong article on that though so don't quote me.
        
           | bsimpson wrote:
           | Can you imagine if someone just turned off the sky?
        
             | runako wrote:
             | _Spin_ by Robert Charles Wilson is based on this premise.
        
             | faraaz98 wrote:
             | Who are you? Cixin Liu?
        
               | sunshinerag wrote:
               | The universe winks for thee.
        
           | echoangle wrote:
           | This form of navigation is probably only accurate enough for
           | nuclear weapons, you're not going to get meter-Range CEPs
           | with that. You probably have to select a city you want to
           | hit.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | While you probably can't target a cigarette butt on the
             | street, you could definitely hit a building. Especially if
             | the ICBM is paired with image recognition (which it has
             | already for star nav) and/or backup positioning mechanisms
             | like cell tower locations or well-known broadcasting tower
             | locations (think television stations).
        
           | aerostable_slug wrote:
           | To risk being pedantic, US SLBMs (Tridents) indeed use
           | stellar updates for their inertial guidance system.
           | 
           | Our ICBMs have no update mechanism at all. Once they're out
           | of the silo, they're completely on their own.
        
         | sorokod wrote:
         | Something similar was available since the previous century for
         | ship to ship communications where there is a line of sight.
         | 
         | Such communications can't be intercepted or triangulated.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | Free space optics were attempted extensively in the ISP space
         | 15, 20 years ago for FDD 1 Gbps links at short distances roof
         | to roof in major metro areas, they're EXTREMELY vulnerable to
         | falling over in rain/snow conditions, and path length
         | limitations, compared to 71 to 86 GHz millimeter wave (using a
         | 2000 MHz wide FDD channel going each way in a high/low split).
         | I'm very skeptical.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _I 'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for
         | .mil usage._
         | 
         | They've probably had it for decades. Laser communication was
         | being used by commercial TV stations in the U.S. in the 1990's.
         | WNBC-TV in New York used a laser to transmit video from its
         | Manhattan skyline camera in New Jersey back to 30 Rock.
         | 
         | I have a vague notion that it didn't work great in all weather
         | conditions, but it was a long time ago.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | LOS communications has been around for a long time now in the
         | form of microwave towers. [1]
         | 
         | But further, jamming is still doable, just not with a portable
         | electronic device. Stir up some dust and all the sudden coms
         | are down.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission
        
           | miohtama wrote:
           | I was doing communications in military. For temporary
           | networks, we used microwave links and they requires line of
           | sight. The reason to use direct link is that missiles can be
           | easily targeted to any radio source you can hear and take
           | down the network.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | Yeah, I was aware of this because of work with
             | telecommunications in rural locations. Nobody is burying a
             | cable over a mountain, that's too expensive and too much
             | work. So instead, they'll setup microwave towers. Being on
             | a mountain has the benefit that you are already in elevated
             | locations that are easy to shoot a phone signal across the
             | range.
        
           | pclmulqdq wrote:
           | Shoot a laser pointer at the receiver and there's a good
           | chance you have jammed the thing.
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | There's already military usage of similar devices. I wouldn't
         | be surprised if Taara has a supplier that also supplies several
         | militaries.
        
       | fweimer wrote:
       | What's so innovative about this? The distance? Some sort of mesh
       | routing? Point-to-point optical wireless links have been
       | available commercially for quite a while.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | They're claiming 10x longer distance than other FSO links I've
         | seen.
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | oh... X.company is not X fka Twitter
        
         | DoctorOW wrote:
         | In the footer of the website they link to their profile: "X
         | (not us)"
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | Is line of sight light spectrum subject to any
       | permissions/licensing like radio/microwave? If not, that is
       | significant.
        
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