[HN Gopher] Copyright and the Demo Scene
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       Copyright and the Demo Scene
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2025-03-14 06:38 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.datagubbe.se)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.datagubbe.se)
        
       | alnwlsn wrote:
       | Related, and a personal favorite of mine: DEF CON 18 - Jason
       | Scott - You're Stealing It Wrong! 30 Years of Inter-Pirate
       | Battles
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCAL_YgYiP0
        
       | 6stringmerc wrote:
       | Fascinating read and I've no sympathy for a scene that eats
       | itself based on its own "copyright does not exist" mantra. No
       | wonder Timbaland ripped them off. Good to get a lesson in the
       | community.
        
         | 6stringmerc wrote:
         | Strange to see this comment from days ago get listed as 2 hours
         | ago.
         | 
         | What gives?
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | It's called the second-chance pool.
           | 
           | Interesting posts that don't get a lot of attention go into
           | the pool, and are re-injected to the (lower part of the)
           | front page. Timestamps (of the post & the comments) get
           | updated when this happens.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/pool
        
       | msephton wrote:
       | A great read. Even today in the indie game developer scene
       | there's a huge range of opinion about what constitutes borrowing,
       | copying, stealing, ripping, and grifting.
        
       | JoshTriplett wrote:
       | Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder if
       | the problem wasn't one of _copyright_ , but one of _credit_.
       | 
       | Even in a group that doesn't care about _copyright_ at all, it 'd
       | be tacky to copy someone else's code _and not credit them_ , or
       | to pretend it's all your own work.
        
         | warpspin wrote:
         | > Taking a guess based on the text in the cited intro, I wonder
         | if the problem wasn't one of copyright, but one of credit.
         | 
         | Might be true. Not familiar with Amiga scene but the following
         | actions were always mostly ok in the European C64 scene,
         | provided credit was given to original author:
         | 
         | * Re-using music in whole
         | 
         | * Re-using fonts
         | 
         | * SOMETIMES re-using small parts of graphics
         | 
         | It always was not ok and considered "stealing" to re-use
         | complete demo routines though for example.
         | 
         | People did get away (reputation wise) with re-using code
         | routines for tools, though, provided credits where given and
         | the re-released tool somehow improved on the original.
         | 
         | Another thing which many people disliked for example was re-
         | using "instruments" from music, even when melodies changed.
         | While the players were mostly open tooling, specific
         | instruments/sounds for those players still had to be crafted
         | first and I witnessed a couple of conflicts when people reused
         | the instruments.
         | 
         | Nothing was written in stone, though. A concept such like
         | licenses did not exist.
        
           | chrismcb wrote:
           | It was rare to reuse graphics, even fonts. But music was a
           | bit more reusable with credit of course. It also depended on
           | your group, but most groups had an artist, not every group
           | had a musician.
        
         | aleph_minus_one wrote:
         | This sounds like an important aspect.
         | 
         | Another one that in my opinion distinguishes the scene
         | behaviour from the classical copyright system is that the
         | latter allows the copyright holder to use the state violence to
         | squeeze out damage payment from copyright infringers.
         | 
         | Applying this kind of violence seems not to be accepted in the
         | scene.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Not to be confused with the "demoscene".[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.demoscene.info/
        
         | crtasm wrote:
         | That's the demoscene the article is referring to. What makes
         | you think otherwise?
        
         | zfxfr wrote:
         | I have been into the demoscene for the last 25 years and never
         | heard of this website demoscene.info. It looks like the kind of
         | website a domainer will make to "increase" the price of a low
         | value domain name.
        
           | crtasm wrote:
           | https://www.demoscene.info/miscellaneous/ the logo in the
           | footer seems to show it's made by the same people who run
           | Evoke
        
       | darkmighty wrote:
       | In my view cracking is great because it democratizes games for
       | those who can't afford them. If you can afford it (and the
       | game+company is good), then buy it. That's how you can kind of be
       | for-cracking and for-commercial games at the same time.
       | 
       | Personally, it would be great if everything was free and everyone
       | used good judgement to pay creators. But I admit maybe a large
       | chunk would just pay nothing, including some wealthy people who
       | could well just chip in. While enlightenment doesn't come...
        
       | sedatk wrote:
       | I think the article dives at the shallow end of the pool, and
       | only comes up with "demoscene's approach to copyright is self-
       | contradictory". Yes, but does it matter? Is demoscene the only
       | sub-culture with that kind of moral code overrides? Don't we see
       | the same in religions, cartels, NFT grifters, and people who use
       | AI generated images?
       | 
       | Are these people who just create stuff for the sake of art,
       | "credz" and self-entertainment really the only outstanding
       | example? Are they the most important?
       | 
       | This is not a demoscene topic, but a human topic. Narrowing it
       | down to demoscene doesn't serve much purpose, IMHO.
        
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