[HN Gopher] The 2008 coal ash disaster in Kingston, Tennessee
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The 2008 coal ash disaster in Kingston, Tennessee
        
       Author : awnird
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2025-03-14 00:45 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (oxfordamerican.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (oxfordamerican.org)
        
       | owenthejumper wrote:
       | Without spoilers...what a disappointing article. This feels like
       | it should have been a long read, and yet, the article ends just
       | as it started, with no explanation, investigation, or conclusion.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | It's a long form, unclassified advertisement for a book
         | mentioned at the end. Decently written if a little too reliant
         | on cliffhangers.
        
       | animal_spirits wrote:
       | This was recently an episode topic on the podcast 99% Invisible.
       | It brought up a lot of interesting questions for me mostly about
       | the systemic differences between public and private operations
       | and pros&cons on both. Plainly shown TVA has been abysmal after
       | it was forced to operate as a profit motivated institution.
       | Though it was still federally owned it received nearly total
       | immunity from the mishaps it caused through sovereign immunity
       | laws. What is the check on disasters like this happening again?
       | Will more regulation prevent it? The EPA's regulations
       | incentivized it to further endanger workers during the cleanup.
       | It needs to either be fully privately owned (still regulated) or
       | fully federally owned and funded.
       | 
       | - https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/613-valley-so-low/
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | Coal plants being dirty, toxic, and generally not good for the
         | health of nearby populations isn't exactly new information of
         | course. But they were important for energy generation for a
         | long time.
         | 
         | That's the reason the resulting pollution and toxic waste is
         | tolerated. Coal contains all sorts of stuff besides organic
         | matter. When you burn it, the non organic stuff remains. It
         | will typically contain metals, heavy metals, and other stuff
         | that isn't good for you. That's also the reason coal smog isn't
         | good for people. You don't want that stuff in your lungs. It's
         | similarly bad as smoking is.
         | 
         | The ash needs to go somewhere and the standard practice with a
         | lot of coal plants has been to just dump it outside, try to
         | contain it with some infrastructure, and not worry too much
         | about it. Nobody really cared. Except now a lot of these plants
         | are going out of business and the the toxic waste remains. And
         | most of these plants needed cooling water so they tend to be
         | close to water ways. So, there's that.
        
           | Earw0rm wrote:
           | How does domestic coal ash compare to this stuff?
           | 
           | Do the higher temperatures and pressures in power station
           | liberate more of the harmful stuff, or is it basically as
           | bad?
           | 
           | UK homes were commonly coal heated as late as the 1980s, a
           | few still are. Its contribution to air pollution was well-
           | understood, but this has got me wondering about ash exposure,
           | as people would routinely handle the stuff with basically
           | nothing in terms of protective gear.
        
             | jillesvangurp wrote:
             | More efficient burning means more the waste metals get
             | concentrated in the ashes instead of in the smog. It has to
             | go somewhere.
        
           | wqaatwt wrote:
           | > That's the reason the resulting pollution and toxic waste
           | is tolerated
           | 
           | Yet nuclear despite inherently being much less harmful
           | weren't historically that well tolerated.
        
             | gambiting wrote:
             | Because people have a completely wrong impression of the
             | scale of nuclear waste. In the Netherlands there is a
             | museum inside their nuclear waste repository - you can
             | literally walk right up to the barrels containing nuclear
             | waste, it's open to the members of the public.
             | 
             | https://www.covra.nl/en/radioactive-waste/the-art-of-
             | preserv...
             | 
             | And I don't remember the exact number, but I'm sure I read
             | somewhere that all of world's highly radioactive nuclear
             | waste(spent fuel) could fit in several olympic swimming
             | pools - while this coal power plant produced 1000
             | tonnes(!!!!) a day(!!!) of coal soot. The scale is just
             | completely incomparable. But people look at Chernobyl or
             | Fukishima and think that the exclusion zones created by
             | those events are inherently a feature of nuclear power -
             | when they are not.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Radioactive clouds and exclusion zones are inherent
               | features of nuclear power the way that buffer overflows
               | and remote code execution are inherent features of C.
        
               | wqaatwt wrote:
               | True, but if you add up Chernobyl, Fukushima and all
               | other nuclear disasters per MHw generated coal is still
               | many times more harmful and killed way more people.
               | 
               | And of course Chernobyl couldn't have happened in the US,
               | France, Britain or any other country run by extremely
               | incompetent halfwits.
        
               | troupo wrote:
               | ~500 000 people dead from dam failures, and we still
               | build hydroelectric plants.
               | 
               | Hiroshima is a city of 2 million people even though it
               | was the epicenter of a nuclear explosion.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | Those arguments are misguided or even deliberately
               | misleading.
               | 
               | People don't die from flooding because of dams, people
               | die from flooding _despite_ dams. Deaths from flooding
               | would _not_ vanish (or even decrease) if we stopped using
               | hydroelectricity /building dams.
               | 
               | Hiroshima was not significantly contaminated by
               | radioactive material because the bomb dropped on it was
               | not designed to do so (compare later speculative
               | Cobalt-60 based designs), and the low amount of fissile
               | material made incidental contamination a non-issue.
        
               | troupo wrote:
               | > People don't die from flooding because of dams, people
               | die from flooding despite dams. Deaths from flooding
               | would not vanish (or even decrease) if we stopped using
               | hydroelectricity/building dams.
               | 
               | wat
               | 
               | --- start quote ---
               | 
               | In August 1975, the Banqiao Dam and 61 others throughout
               | Henan, China, collapsed following the landfall of Typhoon
               | Nina.
               | 
               | The dam collapse created the third-deadliest flood in
               | history which affected 12,000 km2 (3 million acres) with
               | a total population of 10.15 million, including around 30
               | cities and counties, with estimates of the death toll
               | ranging from 26,000 to 240,000.
               | 
               | The flood also caused the collapse of 5 million to 6.8
               | million houses
               | 
               | --- end quote ---
               | 
               | This was literally caused by dam failures. And yet
               | somehow we still build hydroelectric plants.
               | 
               | By _your_ flawed logic we should 've stopped building
               | them years ago. Because multiple human deaths,
               | destruction and ecological disaster are literally built
               | into every single dam.
               | 
               | Just in 2018 the Oroville Dam failure caused the
               | evacuation of 180 000 people. That's _more_ people than
               | were evacuated due to Fukushima.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | You missed my point completely.
               | 
               | That dam was _built_ to prevent and mitigate damage
               | during floods (besides producing electricity).
               | 
               | Was it built to insufficient specifications? Absolutely!
               | But building less dams does NOT lead to less victims
               | during flooding, because the flooding then just happens
               | completely uncontrolled. Spoiler alert: "Just not build
               | any dams" doesn't do shit against flooding if you get 1m
               | of rainfall within a day, and the people just die from
               | starvation/infectious diseases instead (which is the
               | source of >50% of the victims in the Banqiao incident,
               | too), possibly in even greater numbers, because you have
               | flooding _everywhere_.
               | 
               | > Just in 2018 the Oroville Dam failure caused the
               | evacuation of 180 000 people. That's more people than
               | were evacuated due to Fukushima.
               | 
               | Are you suggesting that we would have to evacute _less_
               | people during rain if we did not build dams? Because that
               | is the critical flaw in your argument that I 'm pointing
               | out.
        
               | troupo wrote:
               | > That dam was built to prevent and mitigate damage
               | during floods (besides producing electricity).
               | 
               | Please educate yourself on how hydroelectric dams are
               | constructed.
               | 
               | And a large number of other dams are built not to prevent
               | flooding, but to create water reservoirs and/or stem
               | river flows.
               | 
               | > Are you suggesting that we would have to evacute less
               | people during rain if we did not build dams?
               | 
               | In the absolute vast majority of hydroelectric dams, yes.
               | 
               | Following _your_ logic, we should immediately stop
               | because human deaths and devastation are built in to the
               | dams
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | > People don't die from flooding because of dams, people
               | die from flooding despite dams. Deaths from flooding
               | would not vanish (or even decrease) if we stopped using
               | hydroelectricity/building dams.
               | 
               | The floods are significantly worse because of the dams.
               | 
               | Water may naturally pool in areas but it doesn't pool to
               | the degree necessary for hydropower which is why the dam
               | is built. This causes 2 problems.
               | 
               | 1) The construction of the dam will flood a ton of land
               | upstream of the dam. If you've been to the beach you'll
               | notice that the water doesn't need to go up or down very
               | much for a ton of area to be flooded so in order to get
               | that extra space.
               | 
               | 2) You've now stored a ton of water upstream that will
               | make any dam failure worse than a natural flood because
               | you have all the rain from the rainstorm and the water
               | stored before the rainstorm that's in the flood.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | However, I'm still pro-hydro because uh, electricity is
               | nice and you can mitigate flood issues better than
               | cancer.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | > The floods are significantly worse because of the dams.
               | 
               | No they are not.
               | 
               | Dams mitigate damage during floods because you have
               | buffer capacity and control over outflow. Without dams,
               | you get uncontrolled flooding every single time that
               | there is a lot of rain. With dams, you only get
               | uncontrolled flooding on _dam failure_ , which tends to
               | happen less often than... heavy rain.
               | 
               | > The construction of the dam will flood a ton of land
               | upstream of the dam. If you've been to the beach you'll
               | notice that the water doesn't need to go up or down very
               | much for a ton of area to be flooded so in order to get
               | that extra space.
               | 
               | Yes, large water reservoirs need large amounts of space.
               | That is a completely different argument from flood risk,
               | though, and those costs are negotiated on before the dam
               | is even built.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | IIRC, and I forget where I know this from so it might be
               | bullshit, but the energy required to live a lifetime at a
               | western lifestyle creates a grapefruit sized volume of
               | the "highly dangerous don't go near this" type waste.
        
             | awjlogan wrote:
             | Fun fact: in the UK low risk nuclear plant waste (for
             | example workers' overalls) is bundled up and buried with...
             | coal plant ash. Which is, of course, far more radioactive
             | than the waste it is supposed to be protecting against.
             | This was the case 15 years ago, may have changed since the
             | UK has removed coal from its generation mix.
        
               | ZeroGravitas wrote:
               | Why do you claim the coal ash is intended to be
               | "protecting against" the nuclear plant waste and not just
               | different types of radioactive waste being buried
               | together?
        
               | awjlogan wrote:
               | Coal ash is not classed as radioactive and it was
               | abundant and cheap as a useless by-product of burning
               | coal. The point is more that things classed as "low
               | level" waste from nuclear are most often completely
               | harmless, just regulated differently due to public
               | understanding of the word "nuclear". As such, its
               | disposal is heavily regulated.
        
               | fransje26 wrote:
               | > Coal ash is not classed as radioactive
               | 
               | And yet the largest human release of radioactive material
               | in the environment comes from coal ash.
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | Coal ash is commonly used in cement [1]. I would suspect
               | the nuclear waste is being encased with cement to prevent
               | its leakage with of course the punchline being that the
               | encasement is more radioactive than its contents.
               | 
               | [1]:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_combustion_products
        
             | 7bit wrote:
             | Nuclear energy seems less harmful because its damage is
             | often invisible or long-term. However, uranium mining
             | leaves behind 99.99% of the extracted material as
             | radioactive waste, contaminating land and water for
             | centuries. The mining sites are primarily in Indigenous
             | territories--such as those of the Navajo in the U.S., First
             | Nations in Canada, Aboriginal Australians, and communities
             | in Niger and Kazakhstan--where local populations suffer
             | from radiation exposure, heavy metal poisoning, and
             | increased cancer rates. While nuclear disasters receive
             | global attention, the ongoing destruction from uranium
             | mining remains largely ignored--out of sight, out of mind.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | 99.99% of the extracted material that was already there?
               | Conservation of matter suggests the area was already rich
               | in uranium ores. And uranium operations are pretty small
               | on the scale of mine operations. It also is common enough
               | in modern mining practice to put the nasty stuff at the
               | bottom of the waste dump, as close as possible to the
               | conditions where it came from.
               | 
               | That seems unlikely to be causing any problems,
               | especially without a source to gauge how political the
               | studies are. We're talking populations that live close to
               | the middle of nowhere, limited education, limited
               | employment opportunities and questionable infrastructure.
               | They're not going to get health and wellness outcomes as
               | good as more urban populations.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | > 99.99% of the extracted material that was already
               | there? Conservation of matter suggests the area was
               | already rich in uranium ores.
               | 
               | This is a misleading take on heavy metal mining in
               | general.
               | 
               | Mining is not primarily harmful to local environments
               | because it leads to more of the harmful extracted
               | material; it is harmful because ore concentration is
               | often rather low, and the extraction process produces
               | millions of tons of toxic mineral slurry (=> more harmful
               | than the ore), which has to be disposed _somewhere_ (and
               | preferably not in groundwater, which is the _cheapest_
               | place to get rid of it).
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I don't think that mining hazards are
               | _the_ showstopper for nuclear energy, but this ( "harmful
               | ore was already there before it is mined") is the wrong
               | dismissal for that argument.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | Saying that a mine leaves behind 99.99% of the material
               | is a misleading take. Material that has been there since
               | before the dawn of recorded history remains there. It is
               | a non-statement chosen for emotional effect. I might as
               | well say that the overall concentration of uranium in the
               | area is dropping because they just dug it up and sold a
               | bunch off.
               | 
               | He didn't articulate what his problem with the situation
               | was; it is a remarkably vague comment for an area that is
               | extremely well understood. What exactly are these harms?
               | Especially when considering that living remotely from a
               | city is harmful to health outcomes they probably aren't
               | particularly interesting.
               | 
               | Gathering the materials for solar panels is harmful and
               | you don't see anyone seriously sitting down to have a
               | whinge about it. Industrial society has costs. News at
               | 11.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | > Saying that a mine leaves behind 99.99% of the material
               | is a misleading take.
               | 
               | This might be slightly overstated, but uranium at ore
               | concentrations of 0.1% and under _is_ mined commercially
               | right now. Safely disposing of toxic byproducts of
               | Uranium ore extraction and -concentration is already non-
               | trivial in sufficiently regulated industrialized nations,
               | situation in Kazakhstan or Africa is very obviously worse
               | (or are you actually arguing that the operators there are
               | gonna restore groundwater quality, and dispose of toxic
               | byproducts in a permanently safe way at their own cost?)
               | 
               | > What exactly are these harms?
               | 
               | Again. The harm comes primarily from groundwater
               | contamination, which is very hard to prevent because you
               | are basically pumping some leaching agent into the
               | ground, which is alreay invariably gonna affect
               | groundwater quality. Even if that did not, you then need
               | to dump slurry/brine byproducts from extraction
               | _somewhere_ (and the next river is gonna be the cheapest
               | place).
               | 
               | > Gathering the materials for solar panels is harmful and
               | you don't see anyone seriously sitting down to have a
               | whinge about it. Industrial society has costs. News at
               | 11.
               | 
               | People whine about environmental impact of lithium/rare
               | earth mining bascially every single time that
               | electrification of vehicles comes up (or wind turbines),
               | primarily to then make bad arguments in favor of fossil
               | fuels...
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | What's the uranium concentration of the waste though? If
               | it's higher than the .1% natural concentration they're
               | mining wouldn't they mine their waste piles? I'm failing
               | to see how the waste has more uranium in it than the land
               | did to begin with unless it was a case of the surface
               | land people deal with being free of it.
        
               | myrmidon wrote:
               | > If it's higher than the .1% natural concentration
               | they're mining wouldn't they mine their waste piles?
               | 
               | Your mental picture of the process is a bit off: Uranium
               | mining happens mostly by pumping a leaching agent
               | (typically some acid) into the ground, and extracting it
               | elsewhere via wells. This is very obviously not helpful
               | for groundwater quality.
               | 
               | And you are not extracting _just_ Uranium (or even other
               | "desirable" heavy metals)-- most of the radioactivity
               | (>80%) is in economically uninteresting decay products,
               | and you just want/need to get rid of those.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | You seem to misunderstand how mining pollution actually
               | works.
               | 
               | When things like uranium are trapped in rocks they are
               | typically immobile and not bioavailable. In most ground
               | strata things things can be stabally held for millions of
               | years. When humans mine the area we can cause what would
               | take erosion millions of years in hours. For example
               | blasting and mechanical splitting of rocks then loading
               | them with equipment causes huge amounts of dust. Also in
               | the process of exposing 'fresh' rock we cause sulfate
               | materials to be exposed to water creating acids that
               | mobilize metals.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | What case study are you working off? There are only
               | something like 50 active uranium projects active right
               | now.
        
               | throwaway1298 wrote:
               | I live in one of the mentioned countries (Kazakhstan)
               | very close to one the major (unenriched) uranium
               | processing plants. It's in the very east of the country
               | close to the border with China, you'll easily find
               | information about it if you're interested.
               | 
               | It most definitely is causing problems, but you will not
               | hear about it because: a) nobody gives a flying fuck
               | about us, especially our own government, and b) very
               | little research is being done because nobody important is
               | interested in doing it.
               | 
               | Most of the money made by destroying our health and
               | environment goes to Switzerland (i.e. Glencore), and they
               | have no incentive to care about us.
               | 
               | I read _one_ study by a grad student who managed to
               | escape from here to a French university, and she used a
               | scanning electron microscope to find very high levels of
               | heavy metal pollution -- including uranium -- in tree
               | leaves all around the plant. That 's about it.
               | 
               | And here's a personal anecdote of what the reality is
               | here: when I was in college, I was working for a few
               | months with a group of researchers that were testing
               | novel techniques of reducing particulate pollution from a
               | local coal power plant. While we did see some positive
               | results, the emission values (both before and after) were
               | significantly higher than what is permitted by government
               | emission standards, about 8-10 times as much. So we were
               | "asked" (and complied -- you don't really say no to these
               | things) to reduce numbers to acceptable levels and
               | publish that. This makes for a pretty piss-poor study if
               | you ask me, it's not really science.
               | 
               | edit: and here's this beauty at close range:
               | 
               | https://0x0.st/8QZm.jpg
               | 
               | https://0x0.st/8QZS.jpg
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | I worry this is going to come off as overly combative;
               | but you haven't gotten to the meat of my complaint here.
               | What is the harm you are objecting to vis a vis the
               | uranium?
               | 
               | The only actual evidence you're proffering is that there
               | is heavy metals pollution "all around" the processing
               | plant. That isn't much to go on. What sort of distances
               | are we talking about? What does "very high" mean?
        
               | throwaway1298 wrote:
               | Sure, I was too impulsive myself, but it's really
               | difficult to read dismissive comments when people all
               | around you lose 10+ years of life expectancy to this
               | "non-problem" just so that some guy in France can have
               | his nuclear energy for cheap.
               | 
               | I think this is the study; I read it as a proper full-
               | length thesis, but it also seems to have been condensed
               | into a short paper:
               | 
               | https://sci-
               | hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...
               | 
               | I'll look around a bit more for the original.
        
               | roenxi wrote:
               | Are there any mines involved in this study? There don't
               | seem to be any mines involved here. I'm not even sure
               | that most of the damage is being done by the Uranium
               | processing, we seem to be looking at a heavy industrial
               | district. I can't figure out where their colour scale
               | comes from but it seems the high Uranium concentrations
               | are quite localised to near the Uranium processing plant
               | and the area is a witches brew of pollutants from all
               | sorts of horrible industrial activities.
               | 
               | I wouldn't choose to live there, I give you that. Not
               | convinced it is relevant to nuclear power debate though.
               | The studiers seem to be drawing attention to the toxicity
               | of the lead-zinc plant.
               | 
               | This goes to the core of my complaint against the anti-
               | nuclear people. I think ignoring the Ag, As, Ba. Be, Co,
               | Cr, Sb & Zn - and all the other elements in the study -
               | and myopically focusing on the U is really
               | misunderstanding what an industrial district does. They
               | are unhealthy places.
        
             | potato3732842 wrote:
             | You can mostly thank greenpeace and the hippie generation's
             | legacy of political advocacy for that.
             | 
             | Nations like France and formerly Germany have or had pretty
             | sensible situations when it came to nuclear power.
        
           | myrmidon wrote:
           | > The ash needs to go somewhere and the standard practice
           | with a lot of coal plants has been to just dump it outside,
           | try to contain it with some infrastructure, and not worry too
           | much about it.
           | 
           | More precisely: The standard EPA recommended practice would
           | have been to dump the _dried_ fly ash in a lined landfill (to
           | prevent poisoning groundwater). This is also what whas done
           | in the cleanup.
           | 
           | Allowing the disaster to occur was a clear case of
           | insufficient regulations combined with the sort of cost-
           | saving sloppiness that is to be expected from private
           | companies.
           | 
           | Those regulations were amended and risks at other potential
           | disaster sites were mitigated (which cost billions),
           | finishing in 2022.
           | 
           | I'd like to note here that muntzing government regulations in
           | a style that Musk advocates for ("you can always reinstate
           | some regulations later if you run into problems") is not only
           | irresponsible, but also impractical; it takes decades to
           | implement regulatory changes and switching is very expensive.
        
             | try_the_bass wrote:
             | > is not only irresponsible, but also impractical; it takes
             | decades to implement regulatory changes and switching is
             | very expensive.
             | 
             | But perhaps this latency is itself a problem that should be
             | solved? I understand that there are good reasons for
             | regulation to be a slow process, but it doesn't have to
             | (and probably shouldn't!) take decades to iterate on.
             | 
             | And if regulation could iterate faster, some of your
             | objections to the approach go away, do they not? This would
             | also come with the added benefit of reducing the efficacy
             | of regulatory capture.
        
           | wat10000 wrote:
           | That's one reason the resulting pollution and waste is
           | tolerated. Another big reason is that the harms are diffuse
           | and often hard to see. If coal power plant operators had to
           | actually pay for the harms they produce, coal would have
           | started phasing out much earlier and faster.
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | I am guessing this is coming up now due to the recent changes in
       | regulations.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43357447
       | 
       | "Prioritizing coal ash program to expedite state permit reviews
       | and update coal ash regulations (CCR Rule)"
        
       | DecentShoes wrote:
       | If you want me to read your article, don't cover it with a stupid
       | popup in the middle of the screen. I closed the page as soon as I
       | saw that.
        
       | wglb wrote:
       | Wikipedia article with more detail
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly...
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | Man that still feels like it was ten years ago. 17, really?
        
       | Carrok wrote:
       | This article has some great writing overall, but ends with this
       | 
       | > How could this happen? Ansol wondered.
       | 
       | I wish it had dug into this. These sort of things don't just
       | happen. There must be accountability, and journalists are who are
       | supposed to start that process. This was clearly an environmental
       | travesty of monumental proportions. How do we grapple with the
       | fact this sort of thing is apparently just allowed to continue
       | happening?
        
         | alibarber wrote:
         | It's an extract from a book - which I would hope digs into it.
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | Related I lived through a large coal slurry spill in 2000 in
       | Eastern KY.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_County_coal_slurry_sp...
        
       | jollyllama wrote:
       | See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Blue_Run_Lake
       | 
       | > Another lawsuit was filed in Federal Court by 15 Beaver County,
       | Pennsylvania residents and 36 West Virginia residents who accused
       | FirstEnergy of contaminating groundwater and leaking hazardous
       | waste, including arsenic, sulfates, sodium, calcium, magnesium
       | and chloride[2] into local waterways and groundwater systems.
        
       | hannob wrote:
       | Oh, I remember that one.
       | 
       | At the time, the construction of new coal-fired power plants was
       | a controversial topic in many locations in Germany. (Around 30
       | new coal power plants were planned at times. Some were stopped,
       | but 10 of them were actually build, which is bad enough.) I also
       | tried to raise awareness about this incident in Tennessee, trying
       | to have a look at the environmental issues of coal on a more
       | international level. But it didn't generate much interest.
        
       | sierra1011 wrote:
       | Terrifying that this could happen as recently as 2008 and, I'm
       | sure, with better understanding of potential consequences.
       | 
       | In 1966, something similar (although with a mining waste dump,
       | instead of ash) happened in Aberfan, Wales (in the UK) with a
       | more tragic outcome[1].
       | 
       | The question should be whether this occurred due to ignorance or
       | ignoring the lessons of history, which rhymes if not repeats.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster
        
         | hydrogen7800 wrote:
         | This was featured in an episode of The Crown [0]. I had never
         | heard of it and didn't know what the episode was going to be
         | about. I think they did a good job conveying the magnitude of
         | the tragedy.
         | 
         | [0]https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-
         | radio/2019/nov/17/televis...
        
       | mrlonglong wrote:
       | You were lucky. We in the UK had this back in 1966.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster
        
       | twic wrote:
       | I've heard of a few of these in the US, but have not heard of any
       | in the UK, where we also burned a lot of coal. Did we manage the
       | ash differently? I have a vague idea that we have a different
       | kind of coal, which produces less ash.
       | 
       | I couldn't find anything conclusive, but found this from 2015:
       | 
       | > Storage, whether in lagoons, silos or landfills, rather than
       | re-use, is the default solution for coal ash management in most
       | countries. The UK's Department of Environment, Food and Rural
       | Affairs (Defra) estimates that, of the eight million tonnes of
       | coal ash produced in the country each year, half is re-used,
       | while over 300 million tonnes have been stored in lagoons or
       | silos since the 1950s. [...] The American Coal Ash Association
       | (ACAA) reports on US coal ash production and use each year. In
       | 2013, 53 million tonnes of coal ash were generated, of which 23
       | million tonnes were re-used. Of the unused portion, the EPA says
       | 36 per cent was stored in landfills, and 21 per cent in wet
       | storage facilities. [...] Some countries are doing better,
       | though: for example, the Netherlands recycles 100 per cent of its
       | coal ash because landfill is not allowed in the country. In
       | Germany, where around 10 million tonnes of coal ash are produced
       | per year, around 97 per cent is re-used, with the rest stored
       | only on a temporary basis. According to the European Coal
       | Combustion Products Association (Ecoba), of the 48 million tonnes
       | of coal ash produced in 15 EU countries in 2010 (the latest
       | available figures), 13.8 million tonnes were re-used.
       | 
       | https://www.powerengineeringint.com/coal-fired/managing-coal...
       | 
       | The "re-use" is by processing it into materials which can be used
       | for various construction and materials manufacturing processes.
       | There's lots of other fascinating details about coal ash in
       | there. Wikipedia is pretty good too:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_combustion_products
        
         | throwaway519 wrote:
         | The UK had the Aberfan disaster that led to better awareness
         | and enforcement of above-ground tip management be it mine or
         | combusted slag or ash.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster
        
       | jamiescoop wrote:
       | https://tennesseelookout.com/2022/04/12/osha-officials-admit...
        
       | jamiescoop wrote:
       | https://tennesseelookout.com/2022/04/12/osha-officials-admit...
       | https://tennesseelookout.com/2023/05/23/jacobs-engineering-s...
       | These stories should give you the info you need to understand
       | what happened to the Kingston workers. I spent years as an
       | investigative journalist revealing this travesty through dozens
       | of stories.
        
         | fransje26 wrote:
         | Oh. The picture at the top of the second article, with the cars
         | for scale, really drives home how huge that storage hill was.
         | 
         | Thank you for sharing those articles.
        
       | sourtrident wrote:
       | Feels like disasters like this aren't just random accidents -
       | they're symptoms of slowly ignoring the cracks until everything
       | breaks open. Makes you wonder what else we're overlooking right
       | now that's quietly falling apart around us.
        
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