[HN Gopher] Creative Fansubbing Techniques: Part 2
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       Creative Fansubbing Techniques: Part 2
        
       Author : TheAceOfHearts
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2025-03-11 07:48 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.md-subs.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.md-subs.com)
        
       | fxtentacle wrote:
       | Well this brings back some old memories :)
       | 
       | We built our own KLT point tracker to make "Onscreen Text
       | Substitution" stick to moving cars and/or during camera pans.
       | 
       | We reverse engineered Winny (a Windows-only filesharing software)
       | to build a Linux server with WebUI so that you could conveniently
       | remote-control a server in Japan.
       | 
       | We built a C-like language with AOT compiler that actually
       | creates machine code to make particle effects render faster.
       | 
       | We used spectrogram analysis to assist with separating the audio
       | track for along karaoke animations.
       | 
       | And of course there was multiple competing xdcc servers.
       | 
       | And then there was the truly crazy stuff like a TSR bootloader
       | for your PS2 which would hook drawing calls in memory so that you
       | can fan-translate video games, too.
       | 
       | We truly had an insane amount of cutting-edge tech back then, if
       | you consider that this was just some people's hobby to enjoy
       | Japanese content.
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | I think I came onto the scene probably 5 years after you did.
         | Ours was the Share and Perfect Dark era :)
        
         | creamyhorror wrote:
         | Many computer nerds among anime enjoyers.
        
       | quink wrote:
       | Wonderful to see Flip Flappers have that bit of over-
       | representation that it so richly deserves. It's a true work of
       | love, so it's not surprising to see fansubs of it reflect that as
       | well.
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | Never expected to hear about that series on HN lol
        
       | dsign wrote:
       | Judging by fan adoration, I get this feeling that anime in Japan
       | are not made by ginormous animation companies trying too hard to
       | produce the same samey conformant goop as everybody else, which
       | seems to be a problem that EE.UU. and Europe do have. Or am I
       | wrong?
        
         | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
         | You're probably only being exposed to the best and most notable
         | anime, which is giving you a very skewed perspective. In fact
         | every season (anime releases follow a seasonal pattern; Winter,
         | Spring, Summer, Fall) there's tons of same-y and uninteresting
         | trope-filled anime. Most seasonal anime just takes some basic
         | premise as a starting point and then it fills in the rest of
         | the details with tons of tropes, or it copies the key details
         | from other successful entries in the sub-genre. If you started
         | following every anime season you'd quickly notice how many
         | derivative anime are released each season.
         | 
         | You can check it out for yourself, go to anilist.co, and filter
         | for Year 2024, and then filter again for each Season. There's
         | tons of fad-chasing, aside from the major standouts. It's
         | honestly a shame because some of these slop-tier anime still
         | tend to get beautiful animations, but their stories and writing
         | in general is really bad. Sometimes you get an F-tier story
         | with S-tier animation.
        
           | quink wrote:
           | > you'd quickly notice how many derivative anime are released
           | each season.
           | 
           | Never could get used to the term 'derivative' in that
           | context. Everything's derivative. Hard to know what word to
           | use instead, but I just wouldn't attach an adjective in the
           | first place and just skip past it. For instance, I don't call
           | a particular reality show derivative, I'm just not really
           | going to be interested in the first place, odds are.
        
             | dharmab wrote:
             | The most popular new show of the year is anything _but_
             | derivative (DanDaDan)
        
               | GoblinSlayer wrote:
               | > the main heroine is a roastie
               | 
               | Not sure if want.
        
         | apt-get wrote:
         | Otaku/doujin culture, and the creative industry that rose
         | around it in Japan, is as good as it gets when it comes to
         | finding good ideas and propping them up. Basically anyone who
         | can draw can release their own manga/webnovel/illustrations on
         | pixiv, twitter, and others, get a couple volumes out with this
         | or that publishing house, see where it goes and whether the
         | public catches on. Self-publishing plays a huge part in this,
         | whether it's doujinshi (self-made [often derivative] books sold
         | at conventions like Comiket, Comitia, or online, with a
         | substantial proportion of r-18 [but not only] content), doujin
         | music albums, indie games and visual novels, etc.
         | 
         | Funding for anime adaptations is plentiful, and fan support
         | helps bridge the confidence gap where production committees
         | (consortiums of multiple publishing/IP companies pooling the
         | money to distribute the risk) won't go for more indie /
         | experimental works. Profit is recouped on developing the brand
         | and merch, while leaving plenty of room for directors and
         | studios to establish their own auteur identity. Studios are
         | getting leaner and more focused these days, splitting off into
         | smaller entities kicked off with a project or two with more
         | margin for talent to shine.
         | 
         | It's not all perfect, though. Freelance work and lack of
         | mentoring has really put a dent into the supply of new
         | animators, who lack job security and often swing between
         | studios left and right, but there are industry efforts to fix
         | this and preserve knowledge, with the oldest pioneer animators
         | now starting to hit their 60's and 70's.
        
           | 6stringmerc wrote:
           | Please explain how "funding is plentiful" for the industry -
           | as an American Musician and artist, I am truly curious how
           | money is available to creatives in Japan in this sector.
           | Thank you!
        
             | apt-get wrote:
             | Sakugabooru's blog has much information on the internals of
             | anime production. This article answers some questions about
             | the production committee model:
             | https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/05/02/what-is-an-animes-
             | pr...
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | It's plentiful in PPP terms I suppose. Japanese wages are
             | very low, they wouldn't be able to fund even one of those
             | ugly Netflix adult comedies where it's made in Flash and
             | called Big Balls or something.
        
         | protocolture wrote:
         | No you would not be correct. In fact the explosion of certain
         | genres of anime have been extremely cookie cutter.
         | 
         | Thats not to take away the enormous contribution made by
         | fansubbers. Some of them are absolutely amazing. I remember
         | seeing some of these techniques used in School Rumble years
         | ago, and they also went out of their way to translate visual
         | puns for western audiences.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | There's a quality filter over it because people don't want to
         | translate all the slop. In particular Kadokawa has seemingly
         | replaced half the industry with bad "isekai" fantasy novel
         | adaptations.
         | 
         | But there's also several long running toy commercial series for
         | kids like Pretty Cure. They're better than any other country's
         | toy commercials but still that.
        
       | Daiz wrote:
       | As someone who's done made use of most of the techniques listed
       | in these posts, some comments...
       | 
       | First of all, it's nice to see them receive attention outside the
       | fansubbing scene! Anime has long made use of on-screen text in
       | ways that most other mediums don't, and with the limited
       | animation the medium is famous for, it tends to be extremely
       | amenable to localization that aims to replicate that on-screen
       | text presentation as closely as possible. With fansubbing, this
       | is largely due to the power of the ASS (Advanced SubStation
       | Alpha) subtitle format, and the Aegisub editor's capabilities for
       | making use of that power (none of which is a coincidence - ASS
       | was effectively developed for subtitling anime, and the same goes
       | for Aegisub). Of special note is Aegisub's Automation features,
       | which allow users to write Lua scripts to extend its
       | capabilities, even building various extra GUI bits and bobs to
       | make them usable for any non-coders.
       | 
       | To comment on one of the techniques in particular: it's always
       | kind of fun to see people be impressed by masking, because
       | technically speaking it's one of the more simple tricks that
       | people do with ASS. The format includes basic vector drawing
       | capabilities, which can be used to also make clipping masks for
       | subtitles. How masking works is that usually the typesetter will
       | be simply drawing vector clipping masks to clip the subtitles
       | properly, frame-by-frame. Due to the limited animation, this
       | usually doesn't take all that long. If the covering object
       | remains static in shape, you could also just draw the mask once
       | and then use motion tracking and an automation script to move it
       | for the duration of the masked line. So all in all, not very
       | complex, just a bunch of manual effort :)
       | 
       | And speaking of which: one of the biggest innovations of anime
       | fansubbing happened around 2011-2012, when fansub groups started
       | making use of motion tracking en masse. The popular program for
       | doing the actual motion tracking was Mocha[1], and then various
       | tools were used to apply its After Effects -compatible motion
       | tracking data to typesetting lines in Aegisub. This development
       | eventually culminated in Aegisub-Motion[2], which has been the
       | de-facto motion tracking script for Aegisub for quite a while.
       | 
       | Motion tracking is also the main thing still lacking when it
       | comes to typesetting in official anime releases today. This
       | mostly comes down to the fact that while fansubs can have fancy
       | motion tracked typesetting completely softsubbed since they
       | expect their releases to be watched on reasonably powerful PCs,
       | the same doesn't really apply to the much more limited and less
       | powerful subtitle render used by official services. But honestly
       | speaking? That's mostly just an excuse for the official services
       | to not even try. You could have the fanciest on-screen text
       | presentation in the world if you just burned your on-screen text
       | translations into the video (hardsubbing, as opposed to
       | softsubbing). Yes, this approach would work just fine even for
       | multiple languages - modern video streaming is already based on
       | short segmented chunks, so all you'd need to do is develop a
       | system that will make multiple hardsubbed variants of only the
       | segments where on-screen text is actually present. With this, for
       | the vast majority of video, you would only need one variant. I
       | developed the bones of a system like this myself for some
       | official anime streaming I worked on some years back
       | (unfortunately no longer available), and it very much was
       | extremely feasible. This kind of segmented hardsubbing is even
       | possible on Blu-ray, so the technique is disc-feasible too.
       | 
       | In conclusion, I completely, 100%, concur that I'd love to see a
       | lot of these techniques be used with official anime releases.
       | Especially since it would be very much possible to apply just
       | about all of them as long as a publisher was simply motivated
       | enough to make it happen.
       | 
       | [1] https://borisfx.com/products/mocha-pro/
       | 
       | [2] https://github.com/TypesettingTools/Aegisub-Motion
        
         | slackfan wrote:
         | Oh shi- why I am not surprised to see Daiz on HN.
         | 
         | The irony is that in older official releases in the VHS era
         | we'd get that sort of effort towards localization, but the
         | purists really hated it.
         | 
         | I had a prototype setup worked out for video that actually did
         | convert ASS -> video stream that you could overlay on top a
         | number of years back, but never took that anywhere.
        
         | creamyhorror wrote:
         | Hiya Daiz, hope you're doing well after all these years
        
       | doright wrote:
       | OMG it's Flip Flappers. Watch Flip Flappers.
        
         | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
         | I saw it years ago with my ex and liked it but I can't remember
         | what it's about (well it's two girls fighting evil but) and
         | never ended up rewatching it
        
       | boredhedgehog wrote:
       | This needs proper citations for the episodes used as examples.
        
         | looperhacks wrote:
         | I can't give you the exact episodes, but the series:
         | 
         | Blurry Text For Fuzzy Hearing: Dimension W Fading Text For Fade
         | Transition: Made in Abyss Reflected Text On Reflecting
         | Surfaces: Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid Onscreen Text Imitation:
         | First Flip Flappers, then KonoSuba Onscreen Text Substitution:
         | First Flip Flappers, then Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid Subtitle
         | Text Distortion: Again, Flip Flappers Karaoke: Flip Flappers
         | Masking: Alice & Zoroku
        
           | boredhedgehog wrote:
           | Thanks! That's some more for my watchlist.
        
       | qiqitori wrote:
       | Used to do this kind of stuff (a long long time ago), first in
       | ASS and later in After Effects. After Effects was real fun! Put
       | in a lot of effort into making signs look the same as the
       | original Japanese.
        
       | BizarroLand wrote:
       | I recently watched a terrible anime where a girl got thrown out
       | of a building for some reason.
       | 
       | I don't remember anything about the anime except that the
       | subtitles spun end over end and flew off the screen in perfect
       | sync with the girl. It was beautiful and probably the best thing
       | about the series if all I can remember from it is that one sub.
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-14 23:01 UTC)