[HN Gopher] Magpies and crows are using "anti-bird spikes" to ma...
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Magpies and crows are using "anti-bird spikes" to make nests (2023)
Author : perihelions
Score : 199 points
Date : 2025-03-10 14:33 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.audubon.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.audubon.org)
| bell-cot wrote:
| Could birds be trained to tear down military barbed wire & razor
| wire defenses?
|
| (Or are the birds here AWOL from their training camp?)
| lexicality wrote:
| While corvids can use tools, I think they'd probably struggle
| with a pair of wire cutters
| lores wrote:
| To the laboratory!
| sambull wrote:
| obviously lasers, corvidae with lasers
| marcosdumay wrote:
| And that was how everybody on the North hemisphere went
| blind...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Team work, each one holds one end. :)
| _kst_ wrote:
| Mounted on a coconut.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Well we've used pigeons fr missile guidance before [0], and for
| messaging [1], so birds have a firm place in the military
| including having their own special units [2]
|
| More generally, the history of warfare is all about taking the
| enemy's resources and using them as weapons against the foe.
| This will be a defining feature of future cyberwar and AI -
| everything we build to "protect ourselves" will at some point
| be repurposed to advantage an enemy.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_pigeon
|
| [2] https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/warfares-unsung-
| pi...
| codedokode wrote:
| Sadly Wikipedia doesn't describe a specific mechanism that
| helps pigeons to navigate. I wonder do pigeons simply fly
| high enough that they can see hundred miles around?
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| They use magnetism AFAIK
| thenthenthen wrote:
| (And) smell apparently (sample size of one..)
|
| https://youtu.be/t4cw-Av2Pk4?feature=shared (Around 28min
| mark)
| mr_toad wrote:
| Geese have also been employed for security including by
| military forces.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_goose
| webdoodle wrote:
| Dolphin's were trained to bypass enemy underwater defenses to
| plant explosives on enemy ships while they were in there home
| port. They were also used to find mines and other underwater
| devices to be disarmed.
|
| Most birds just aren't big enough to do real damage to barbed
| wire or razor wire defenses. Now if you could somehow train the
| birds to harass a herd of cattle into running down the fence,
| that might work. Sort of like the Hitchcock movie The Birds.
| pelagic_sky wrote:
| Cockies would gladly do the job for free.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/rga3pf/cockatoo_...
| dwighttk wrote:
| (2023)
|
| Seemed familiar...
| nottorp wrote:
| In other news, only small children can easily open the anti child
| caps on medicine bottles...
| a4isms wrote:
| And in disturbingly relevant news from 1933...
|
| "Why a four-year-old child could understand this report. Run
| out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or
| tail out of it." --Groucho Marx as Rufus T. Firefly, "Duck
| Soup"
| nottorp wrote:
| I wasn't quoting entertainment though.
|
| When my daughter was 4 or 5 and down in bed with 39 C fever,
| I was having trouble opening her bottle of ibuprofen syrup.
| Child proof cap of course, so too hard for a 29 year old.
|
| So I heard her - barely speaking because of the fever -
| "daddy let me help you". I brought the bottle to her bed and
| of course she opened it the first try.
| Suppafly wrote:
| I never understood this, I assumed it was geriatric people
| complaining because they literally don't have the strength
| to push down and turn, not that normal abled bodied adults
| were too dumb to figure out that you have to push down and
| turn, especially since the instructions are on the lid
| itself.
| nottorp wrote:
| And, that shit works for you on the first try every time?
|
| Do you practice daily?
| Suppafly wrote:
| >And, that shit works for you on the first try every
| time?
|
| Within the first couple of times at least unless it's
| physically defective or something. It's not really
| something able bodied people have problems with.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Some of them are also squeeze caps so their fingers might
| be too shaky
| RajT88 wrote:
| It is amazing how quotable that movie is even today.
| porphyra wrote:
| Interesting but I have a hard time imagining how a nest made of
| anti-bird spikes could be comfortable. Do they actually find it
| to be nice? I guess corvids are super smart and wouldn't
| accidentally get tricked into making an uncomfortable nest due to
| man made materials...
| xattt wrote:
| It would be interesting to determine whether the serum cortisol
| differs between those living in spoke nests versus those
| without.
|
| My assumption is that it is indeed elevated, as the "residents"
| are constantly mindful of their movements (and therefore more
| stressed) to avoid being poked.
| pbalau wrote:
| Spikes are only uncomfortable if you sit on the spiky end.
| nicoty wrote:
| The article says the birds make different nest configurations,
| with one incorporating a softer cup layer on top of the spiky
| layer made with the spikes and another configuration using the
| spikes as part of a dome on top of the nest.
| mechanicum wrote:
| Relative to their traditional construction material, twigs,
| it's probably no worse.
| SunkBellySamuel wrote:
| It's more about sending a message than the comfort. Up the
| tweet!
| throwanem wrote:
| I saw an osprey pull a three-foot fragment of steel wire out of
| a wire rope on a tramp steamer one time. Damndest thing you
| ever saw, he kept circling and grabbing at this cable with his
| talons and I thought he was attacking or something, but I got
| my camera up in time to see him fly off with this twist of wire
| as long as his wingspan, pulled up under him like a fish. They
| love human detritus as structural material in their nests,
| which can be six feet across and four deep.
| NobleLie wrote:
| My take is its less so about being physically comfortable, but
| there is a different type of comfort by the protection of the
| nest from predators. It's like being uncomfortable to have
| peace of bird mind, in other words.
| pixelbath wrote:
| TFA addresses this directly:
|
| > For the crows, the spikes seem purely structural, a material
| used to fashion a solid foundation. In both crow nests, the
| wires were incorporated into the base-interwoven with the
| points facing inward, below where a softer nest cup would sit.
| But for the magpies, there was an additional layer of intrigue;
| not only were the birds using the spikes to build nests, but
| it's possible they were also employing the devices for their
| intended purpose--to ward off other birds.
| baerrie wrote:
| It seems likely to me that the birds have suffered by these
| spikes and repurpose them as much for the message they send to
| avian predators as their structural merits. It is like humans
| wearing the head of a wolf or other things to communicate they
| are a threat to would be interlopers.
| lupusreal wrote:
| Crows going for a Mad Max aesthetic for defense and deterrence
| seems both incredible and simultaneously unsurprisingly.
| mmooss wrote:
| In the OP:
|
| _But for the magpies, there was an additional layer of
| intrigue; not only were the birds using the spikes to build
| nests, but it's possible they were also employing the devices
| for their intended purpose--to ward off other birds. "It's a
| very natural behavior," Hiemstra says. "We think these spikes
| are for nest defense. "_
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| That's exactly what they are, it says as much on the box.
| fullstop wrote:
| And then there are the doves, birds notorious for making the most
| lackluster of nests. They will lay eggs right on top of the
| spikes.
|
| When you see the nests, it is amazing that doves / pigeons exist
| at all. They must survive out of spite and numbers.
|
| Check out /r/stupiddovenests on reddit for some good examples.
| maeln wrote:
| It is because most pigeons we see in cities are rock pigeon and
| were usually making their nest in cliff, crevases and rock
| formation[1]. Not in tree. Therefore, they never needed to make
| such artfully crafted nest since the rock was already providing
| enough shelter. This is also why they are very adapted to live
| in cities, because our concrete jungles are actually closer (in
| their verticality, materials, and relative lack of trees) to
| mountainous terrain than to a jungle.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_dove#Distribution_and_hab...
| fullstop wrote:
| Ah, interesting, that makes sense. I will still laugh at
| their "nests", though. :-)
| alnwlsn wrote:
| I've heard it said that the terrible nests are more to stop
| the eggs from rolling away. Apparently it was easier to
| evolve the ability to go get a stick than make square eggs.
| fullstop wrote:
| Wombats were so close
| harimau777 wrote:
| However, some pigeons are a little extra:
|
| https://www.boredpanda.com/pigeon-poppies-nest-remembrance-d...
| borski wrote:
| Pretty sure pigeons exist entirely thanks to NYC. :)
| dylan604 wrote:
| Or London
| Suppafly wrote:
| >When you see the nests, it is amazing that doves / pigeons
| exist at all. They must survive out of spite and numbers.
|
| They've basically evolved past the point of needing nests but
| still have some basic instinct to create them.
| zdragnar wrote:
| We don't have too many rock pigeons out in the country where I
| live, but we do have plenty of robins (American Robin / Turdus
| migratorius, to be precise), and those have to be in contention
| for world's dumbest nest builders.
| throwanem wrote:
| Fortunately, I only use these to protect the wasps from the
| sparrows, and the robins from themselves.
| internet_points wrote:
| reminds me of the BE UNGOVERNABLE dog
| https://www.reddit.com/r/blursedimages/comments/u8o03f/blurs...
|
| Are there other good examples of animals subverting restrictions?
| harimau777 wrote:
| Checkout the image at the top of this page! (I don't know if
| the blog itself is any good. I'm just posting it for the
| image!)
|
| https://sayyesmore.com/blog/bethebird
| internet_points wrote:
| haha great :-D
| Suppafly wrote:
| That's such a great pic. I wonder what the sign is supposed
| to be for, it's not like birds respect signs. What is it
| telling humans to do?
| fragmede wrote:
| It's so the police arrest and cite the bird for breaking
| the law.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Oh, if the sign is real, it's certainly a joke.
|
| People do create those a lot more than one would expect.
| kleiba wrote:
| Excellent, stick it to the man!
| BSOhealth wrote:
| Researchers are doing all kinds of cognitive studies on how birds
| (and other animals) use tools. Has anyone looked into the
| potential impacts (good and bad) for wide scale introduction of
| proven tools for use by other animals?
|
| Off the top of my head, if a tool is made of plastic for example,
| we'd be littering our environments with questionable trash.
|
| But conceptually, what's the downside to leave a huge pile of
| defensive materials like bird spikes in the forest to help
| promote nest health?
|
| Stopping short of given them weapons of course. (Shout out to the
| other comment about training animals to dismantle barbed wire.)
| mmooss wrote:
| > Has anyone looked into the potential impacts (good and bad)
| for wide scale introduction of proven tools for use by other
| animals?
|
| That is interesting. What if we designed tools for use by
| corvids?
|
| > conceptually, what's the downside to leave a huge pile of
| defensive materials like bird spikes in the forest to help
| promote nest health?
|
| We'd be supporting one species, the prey, over the other, the
| predator. Why? Do we mean to apply vegan principles to animals?
| What happens to the predators? How do animal rights apply?
| Conceptually, it's really a difficult question.
| gtirloni wrote:
| Unless there's an imbalance caused by human activity, I'd say
| we are better off leaving the birds and their ecosystems alone.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I agree, but I would be curious about cases where nature
| could reclaim habitat faster if we give it some tools for the
| job. I can't really think of what those tools might be off
| hand though--apart from some kind of weapon/disease that
| better keeps humans away at marginal detriment to the
| user/host.
| mulmen wrote:
| Don't we already do this with artificial reefs?
| Suppafly wrote:
| >I agree, but I would be curious about cases where nature
| could reclaim habitat faster if we give it some tools for
| the job. I can't really think of what those tools might be
| off hand though--apart from some kind of weapon/disease
| that better keeps humans away at marginal detriment to the
| user/host.
|
| That's an interesting line of thought. The only thing that
| comes to mind is something like giving them fancy hats or
| paintjobs to encourage more reproductive success in
| declining species.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| There's a bit of interesting work that's done re:
| introducing cloned organisms from decades past (from a
| time when biodiversity wasn't as strained), e.g.
| https://www.fws.gov/press-release/2024-11/advancements-
| black...
|
| One could also imagine releasing a virus which
| reprogrammed wildlife genomes for resistance against some
| toxin that we had previously introduced into the
| environment (ideally we would also stop introducing the
| toxin...).
|
| But none of these things come down to "heres a tool for
| you to use". Golly I wish I could come up with some
| technology that would help the woodpeckers better hunt
| invasive pine beetles--the forests around me are looking
| pretty rough--but that's a bit too fantastical to hope
| for.
| aradox66 wrote:
| The "leaving ecosystems alone" ship sailed almost everywhere
| on Earth tens of thousands of years ago. Humans have always
| been a part of, and had impacts upon, the ecosystems we've
| lived in. Certainly moreso in recent centuries.
|
| Not to say that further interventions will be helpful in
| "reestablishing balance".
|
| Even the concept of "balance" or homeostasis has long been
| recognized to not really exist in any ecosystem.
| crooked-v wrote:
| For a lot of animals like crows, their ecosystems _are_
| "human activity" now.
| fullstop wrote:
| Last summer I made an attempt at befriending a crow. It
| actually went pretty well, but the treasures that he
| brought me blew my mind: * French fries
| * Cooked pasta, maybe baked ziti? * BBQ ribs, but
| just the bone with some sauce on it * Chicken nuggets
| * One dead bird, conveniently opened for me * Several
| whole dead baby chicks * One baby chick's head
|
| I stopped feeding it after it kept leaving us, and my
| neighbor, the dead birds, and it was fowling (ha) up the
| water in her bird bath. It loved blueberries, cat food,
| pepitas, and walnuts. It did not like apples and would toss
| them aside.
|
| I would shake my car keys when I put the food out, and it
| would show up a few minutes later, but I never figured out
| if it just saw me or heard the keys.
|
| Here's some video clips of my buddy:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/4ZQb7L3.mp4
| https://i.imgur.com/B4DBLxg.mp4
|
| edit: make the links clickable
| al_borland wrote:
| They could become dependent on those tools and then if humans
| stop, the animals will die the tool supply drops.
| a3w wrote:
| Life, uh, finds a way.
| FredPret wrote:
| I'm impressed by this crow's beak-work: all the spikes are
| oriented inward and covered in leaves, making that nest very
| strong and not spiky at all.
| jeffrallen wrote:
| "...the street finds its own uses for things"
| MrMcCall wrote:
| And we will never run out of uses for WG quotes. Or +1s :-)
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| So the author makes a thesis statement then contradicts in the
| body. So great. Love birds, but hate emotional manipulation. If
| you feel bad, your online time is better spent on working to buy
| land outside of cities and letting it go wild. Cities are for
| primarily for people to live in. And many bird species have
| adapted to live with people already. So the claim is dubious.
| Infact Birds are very adaptable, so adaptable people have to put
| spikes up...to which the birds have adapted to. Actual parqueets
| live in England for example thanks to people feeding them. But
| don't feed the rats...
| wizardforhire wrote:
| So the corvids have developed punk?
| vittore wrote:
| I find it unfair that there is no Audubon location in Audubon, NJ
| :p
|
| Saved the link for more bird news.
| btown wrote:
| Both were independently named for
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Audubon !
| Tesas wrote:
| They work like springs in the mattress and they add the fluff to
| the top. Additional benefits are that the spikes don't get chewed
| by rodents and remain there for the following year
| _kst_ wrote:
| Reminds me of the rats we used to have in our garage, that had
| built nests from our dryer lint.
|
| Our dryer lint was largely cat hair.
| pelagic_sky wrote:
| Cockatoos just rip them out for fun.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/rga3pf/cockatoo_...
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