[HN Gopher] Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99....
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Show HN: We built a Plug-in Home Battery for the 99.7% of us
without Powerwalls
Hi HN! I'm Cole Ashman, founder of Pila Energy. I've spent my
career working on home energy systems--first as an engineer on
Tesla's Powerwall, where I focused on the Backup Gateway, Solar
Inverter, and metering systems. More recently, I led Product at
SPAN, where we built the Smart Electrical Panel and integrated with
most major home solar, EV, and battery systems. Pila
(https://pila.energy/) is a home battery that plugs into a standard
wall outlet, provides smart backup power, energy shifting, and grid
services. It's more than a power bank--it's a distributed energy
system that can scale across multiple rooms, entire buildings, and
work together in real time as a coordinated system. We built Pila
to be local first with an open API to allow developers to build use
cases on top of our hardware (Home Assistant, etc). Big batteries
like Tesla Powerwall and Enphase are great if you own a home and
can afford a $10K+ electrical project, but they require permanent
installation, electricians, and panel upgrades--which makes them
inaccessible for renters, apartments, and cost-conscious
homeowners. Over 50% of the cost of installing a Powerwall isn't
even the battery itself--it's soft costs: labor, permitting, etc.
We wanted to create an entry point for more people to access energy
security at home. How does it work? Plug Pila into any 120V wall
outlet, and power passes through to connected devices and
appliances. The inverter, LFP battery, BMS, grid disconnection,
controller, and wireless connectivity are all built in. (details at
https://pila.energy/tech-specs) When an outage happens, the
onboard inverter detects the power loss within 20ms and
automatically disconnects from the grid (islanding). Whether you're
home or away, backup kicks in instantly. A built-in cellular radio
ensures you get a notification even if your home WiFi is out. Pila
is 1.6kWh. That will backup a standard fridge for over a day. One
key challenge we faced with a distributed architecture was
coordination between batteries, for things like solar-following and
managing real-time draw from your utility connection. Unlike large
garage systems, where you can run a wired CAN bus, our batteries
are spread across the home. We're solving this with a sub-GHz
wireless mesh network--self-healing, coordinator-less, and designed
to make setup and expansion as simple as plugging in another unit.
Long-term, we'd love to open up this protocol to provide a more
reliable communication layer for energy products in noisy built
environments--reducing reliance on consumer Wi-Fi. We want to
deliver the value you'd expect from a whole-home battery like
Powerwall, in a plug-in format. That means going beyond a basic
lead acid UPS with real home energy management, useful insights
about power use, power larger loads like sump pumps, and even
deliver grid services. Most portable batteries are missing the
functionality that makes a home battery useful: no bidirectional
power, no integration with solar or smart home systems, and no
ability to manage home energy dynamically. They tend to be boxy,
ruggedized, meant to be moved around, not seamlessly integrated
into your living space. On top of that, many use e-mobility battery
chemistries, which are great for delivering high power on demand
but wear out faster when cycled daily for home energy use. As a
renter myself, I started Pila because these awesome energy products
aren't accessible enough. And frankly, generators are loud,
expensive, and a pain to deal with. Even many Powerwall owners I've
talked to say they really care about keeping the fridge, WiFi, and
a sump pump running--so why does energy resilience have to be so
complicated and expensive? As the grid struggles to keep up with
demand, we believe modular, renter-friendly batteries can make home
energy resilience more accessible. What's been your experience
with home batteries? What recent power outages have you had, and
how were you affected?
Author : coleashman
Score : 87 points
Date : 2025-03-11 15:48 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pilaenergy.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (pilaenergy.com)
| nikodunk wrote:
| DIY systems have come a long way :)
|
| How long will this keep a fridge powered?
| nikodunk wrote:
| Answering my own question here - 1.8kWh / 500-ish Wh/day for
| fridge usage is 3-4 days.
| coleashman wrote:
| Great question! The 1.6kWh pack will run your fridge for about
| 32 hours. We designed an "Expansion Pack" that doubles the
| battery to 3.2kWh and gives 2x 60V MPPT solar inputs (for up to
| 1200W of direct PV charging). But of course "your mileage will
| vary" depending on your fridge's size. That's where the real-
| time backup time remaining forecast comes in handy!
| cmui wrote:
| Very cool. You mention powering connected devices - is it
| feasible to push power back through the outlet to power parts of
| the home? Euro solar panels are doing this I believe.
| coleashman wrote:
| Yeah great question. The hardware is capable of bidirectional
| power, and electrical codes and standards in the U.S. are now
| catching up with Europe. "Balcony Solar" has taken off there,
| especially in Germany. Utah just passed H.B. 340 which allows
| up to 1200W of plug-in solar backfeed. It wasn't so long ago
| that grid-tied batteries like Powerwall were working through
| the same kind of standards updating process to participate on
| the grid, so I'm encouraged
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Interesting. How is this being managed on the device level?
| do devices ship with this functionality and configure it
| based on their state code?
| coleashman wrote:
| Yep! All hardware is capable, and the Grid Code
| configuration can be set and updated at any time. So as
| more states follow suit, Pila's ready
| pavon wrote:
| Are the grid isolation and backfeed capabilities mutually
| exclusive? Isolation would have to happen at the panel if you
| are backfeeding into an outlet, right?
| chadconway wrote:
| Technically Pila is able to push power back through the home
| when the grid is up. Utah passed a law to allow this. We hope
| to bring this potential to all states. https://pv-magazine-
| usa.com/2025/03/05/balcony-solar-gains-u...
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| But 'when the grid is up' isn't the time you'd want to feed
| power from one outlet into the others. It's when the grid is
| down you'd want to do this, no?
|
| I guess you could flip the trip switch to isolate the
| circuit?
| josefresco wrote:
| So this is a per-room/per appliance battery system? Not sure how
| this would work for my oil burning boiler, which requires power
| but has no "plug". Maybe this is better for households that run
| 100% electric for HVAC?
| chadconway wrote:
| It is designed to backup your most important appliances. You
| can start with one or have one in each room.
| josefresco wrote:
| Understood. My boiler/furnace is the single most important
| "appliance" in my house. I guess I still need an electrician
| and/or use the traditional gas generator/panel switch
| approach.
| coleashman wrote:
| Some furnaces are still 120 volt (same as an outlet) so
| depending on how the furnace is connected, Pila could be an
| option or at least could work with some minimal electrical
| work. But definitely recommend chatting with a good local
| electrician to pick the right path
| chadconway wrote:
| If you get an electrician to rewire it to have a plug, you
| could certainly back it up with Pila.
| coleashman wrote:
| To add more: To backup big 240V appliances that are hard-wired
| (EV charger, large HVAC, for example) you need to connect the
| backup system in the same hard-wired way to the electrical
| panel. For folks who are keen to make the big investment in
| whole-home backup, it's a great solution. Our goal is to give
| folks more onramps to get started with smart battery backup,
| focusing on no-rewiring solutions. But I'll say, Pila can be a
| compliment to whole home backup systems to add a bit more
| backup capacity where it matters most
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| It doesn't need to be hardwired. Devices like the Generlink
| provide an outlet to plugin in a fossil-fuel based generator
| or a battery backup unit, and take care of islanding. They
| sit somewhere between the utility company meter and the main
| service panel. Power goes out ... plug into the Generlink and
| if your generator/backup can handle it, your entire system is
| running again. Not cheap though - around $1k without
| installation (which can vary from insanely easy to complex,
| depending on your situation).
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Assuming your boiler is 120v, you can have an electrician
| install a "generator switch" that lets you plug in a generator
| directly to the boiler; or you can just rewire the boiler to a
| standard, 3-prong 120v plug.
|
| The bigger issue is how many amps the heating system draws.
| Assuming it's really a furnace that pumps hot water, (as
| opposed to a boiler that sends steam to radiators) those pumps
| really do draw a lot of current.
| shafyy wrote:
| This looks great!
|
| > _When an outage happens, the onboard inverter detects the power
| loss within 20ms and automatically disconnects from the grid
| (islanding)_
|
| How does this work? Do I need to install anything additional in
| my grid? Like, how does the fridge "know" that it should now draw
| power from Pila?
|
| Sorry for my noob questions :D
| chadconway wrote:
| Pila plugs into a normal wall outlet. The fridge plugs into the
| outlet on the back of Pila. Pila detects an outage in 20ms and
| automatically begins backing up the appliances that are plugged
| into it.
| tw04 wrote:
| This is essentially a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) with
| an app. The UPS basically passes power from the wall to your
| fridge until there's a power outage. At that point it flips to
| using the battery to send power to your fridge.
| teekert wrote:
| But with the added benefit that it charges during the day on
| solar and then powers device during the night.
|
| My one question would be: does it work with home assistant?
| It would be great to integrate in te energy dashboard.
| cge wrote:
| >But with the added benefit that it charges during the day
| on solar and then powers device during the night.
|
| As an important caveat on solar: if I'm reading correctly,
| it appears that the main unit only has support for a small
| amount of solar input directly connected to it (100 W,
| which makes me suspect it may be using USB PD for input),
| while larger amounts need the expansion pack, or a
| separately installed system.
| coleashman wrote:
| Yes re: Home Assistant. We're stoked to have folks
| integrate with their own energy dashboards if that's what
| they prefer to do.
| allears wrote:
| Looks like a very cool product, one I might be interested in
| buying -- totally depending on price, for which you don't seem to
| be supplying any clues.
| chadconway wrote:
| $999 if you pre-order. Normally $1,299.
| coleashman wrote:
| $999 for early access! We just launched at SXSW, and will begin
| shipping later this year. Via our website we're offering the
| $999 early access pricing for a refundable $99 deposit today.
| Once we enter distribution we're expecting to increase pricing
| to $1299
| cmui wrote:
| I'm curious what's the rank sort of items a typical apartment
| dweller would want to keep on backup - for me it would be WiFi
| router, phone charger, microwave, kettle and a couple kitchen
| lights. Any power restrictions that would preclude running
| microwave or kettle?
| chadconway wrote:
| No restrictions, it can provide 2.2kW of power & even more
| temporarily for starting sump pumps or other motors.
| segseg7 wrote:
| Any way to get 240V out of the ecosystem?
| coleashman wrote:
| Our first product is focused on 120V, but we'll be iterating on
| a 240V option. Out of curiosity which 240V loads are you most
| interested to connect?
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| I have well water and the pump is 1.5 HP on 230 volts. In a
| power outage situation I doubt it would run for more than a
| minute at a time, maybe 4 or 5 times a day.
| coleashman wrote:
| Often well pumps and sump pumps can be wired for either 230
| or 120V, so Pila could be an option with some added effort
| and a conversation with an electrician. But in any case,
| looking forward to building the 230/240V version!
| tzs wrote:
| What are the environmental requirements for Pila?
|
| My well pump is 120V, but I don't keep it in my house.
| It's in a shed out back built over the well and tank. The
| shed is not insulated, but does have a 400W space heater
| plugged into one of these [1] that tries to keep it above
| freezing in there. I think most of the time it succeeds
| but it is possible that for a few days a year it might
| get below freezing for a while.
|
| I have no idea what the humidity is like, or how hot it
| can get in the summer.
|
| Would the current Pila be OK in that kind of environment?
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-
| TC-3-Thermostatically...
| altairprime wrote:
| I'd like to be able to use a 240V hot water kettle to boil
| water for tea (or for sanitization during an outage). I live
| in the US and 120V is slow and inefficient, especially at
| family-scale.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Do you have frequent enough power outages that waiting an
| extra minute for tea is a concern?
| altairprime wrote:
| > _Do you have frequent enough power outages that waiting
| an extra minute for tea is a concern?_
|
| I've had ten power outages in the past six months, one
| mile from an international airport. I've lived through
| hundreds hours of power outages due to PG&E's fucking
| incompetence in the past ten years. You'll have to judge
| for yourself whether that justifies my comment - but, if
| you were a startup considering a 240V outlet on your home
| battery solution, I'm pointing out an entire category of
| uses that they may not have considered:
|
| US kitchen countertop equipment that runs at higher power
| draw when a 240 outlet is available.
|
| As an apartment renter, I have no reasonable solution
| today for a battery that can cope with my kitchen at all,
| prior to this one -- and if they go 240V, I can _upgrade
| my kitchen appliances_ , take them with me when I move,
| and be more resilient to power outages. And if that puts
| more weight behind the 240V purpose so they eventually
| offer a model for people's furnaces, cool beans. I may
| not be able to convince my landlord to install a Charlie
| range, but I already have battery backups in every room
| _except_ my kitchen, so there's an unmet need that this
| startup's a very close fit for already.
|
| Being dismissive about someone's questions will cause you
| to overlook potential market niches that have no viable
| solutions today. Your competitors thank you for your
| service :)
| __d wrote:
| I'm in Australia and everything is 240V (well, I think
| technically it's 230V now) here.
|
| Any timeline yet for international distribution?
| coleashman wrote:
| On a personal note, I'll also be really stoked when we're
| shipping to Australia. Lots of friends down there, and have
| been lucky to work on some past home energy products for
| the Australian market.
|
| Parts of Pila's power electronics are already 230~240V
| capable. We've just launched in the US, and are doing our
| best to stay focused on excellent support for our home
| market before expanding. That said, I could see 2026 being
| the right time for expansion... stay tuned mate!
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Hi Cole, a few questions:
|
| When you say it is bidirectional, what does that mean? It sounds
| like it means backfeeding into the wall outlet, but I dont think
| that can be right.
|
| I am also missing how this is different from other inline device
| battery backups that have been around for decades and cost 20%
| the price. Is it that it has a built in DC charge controller for
| an optional solar panel?
|
| Overall, This seems like a tough space to carve out a niche. It
| seems like the product is trying to position between whole house
| batteries ( powerwall), multi-purpose power stations (ecoflow),
| and generic outlet battery backups. As an outside observer
| reading your website, it wasnt immediately obvious how this
| solution is better than any of those in their respective domain,
| or how its own domain is different.
|
| Edit: Maybe I misunderstand the solar charging? How does this
| work? Does it charge from AC outlet during solar production? Is
| this managed with a timer, or other smart connections to the
| solar inverter, ect?
| chadconway wrote:
| It's bidirectional in that it can push power back into the home
| through the outlet. This is popular in Germany & was recently
| allowed by Utah legislators. It can charge from the wall or a
| temporary solar.
| coleashman wrote:
| Yeah thanks I appreciate the questions. I'll do my best to
| answer them, but let me know if I can clarify anything here!
|
| On bidirectionality: Yep this would involve backfeeding an
| outlet - It's new here in the U.S. but not unprecedented. Plug-
| in "Balcony Solar" systems have taken Germany by storm in
| recent years, and Utah just passed the first bill in the US
| (HB340) to allow plug-in solar panels to export to the grid.
| Pretty cool to see new these options emerge for renters.
| There's still work to do to take this to mainstream and get all
| jurisdictions, utilities, and equipment manufacturers aligned
| on final standards but I'm optimistic.
|
| On solar: You've got 2 options -- Timed charging with a rooftop
| system just like how "AC-coupled" batteries like Powerwall
| work. Or, "DC-coupling" by connecting solar PV panels directly
| to Pila. If Pila is in your kitchen, running a DC-coupled panel
| wire may only be practical in a multi-day outage, but for a
| fridge in the garage it's a relatively easy option.
|
| On differentiation: We're up for the challenge :) - With
| Powerwall and SPAN (or other home devices like Nest) my take is
| it's the software and integration value that sets them out
| ahead. That's where we're really excited to create value and
| carve our niche. But zooming out, it's a big market, and our
| goal is to give folks more options to fit their needs, and it's
| totally going to be the case that simpler portable camping
| batteries are right for some, and big Powerwall-like batteries
| are right for others.
|
| Portable camping batteries, generally: More options come out
| every year, but on the hardware side they're not optimal since
| most use e-mobility battery chemistries, which are great for
| delivering high power on demand but wear out fast when cycled
| daily for home energy use. And since they're meant to be
| manually deployed, they're not always charged and ready when
| you actually need them--unlike a system that's always on,
| managing power in the background without you having to think
| about it.
| anonfordays wrote:
| This device is quite dense and priced accordingly. Other dumb
| UPSs or "solar batteries" with this level of battery capacity are
| all around $1000.
|
| Great work on the local API first approach. I can't remember the
| last SmartAppTM device that was local API first and not wholely
| dependent on some fly-by-night SaaS that requires you to sign-up.
| Hope we see more of this in the industry. Span is infamous for
| removing local API control of their panels.
| coleashman wrote:
| Our team's really excited about the local-first approach. Both
| because it's going to make the system more reliable overall
| (essential for devices aimed at resilience), and because we're
| also excited to build integrations and see what the community
| develops as well. You're right, so few do it even though
| there's so much to gain. Happy to take any thoughts or requests
| on local monitoring/control/data features that you'd like to
| see!
| cmclaughlin wrote:
| Great idea. I am considering buying one for my refrigerator and
| furnace.
|
| Are you planning to charge a monthly fee? I'd be open to that,
| but it would be nice to not pay for more than the hardware. I.e.
| build the operating costs into the cost of the initial purchase
| coleashman wrote:
| No monthly fees -- You buy it, you own it.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Every software-based appliance built in the last decade
| starts out with this promise but then inevitably rug-pulls
| with mandatory updates that introduce subscriptions, degraded
| functionality, etc.
|
| This thing is way too "nice" and polished for its relatively
| low price tag, meaning it's likely being significantly
| subsidized by investors, who will eventually want a return on
| their investment and all these promises will go out the
| window.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| I parted a 2.56 kWh secondary-battery system at $773.66 for my
| business' self-driving computer product, but it's not one
| complete unit or as sophisticated as this product. It seems like
| a decent price for what you're getting. Especially in terms of
| space consumed.
| ddxv wrote:
| Any chance this would be a good fit for existing off grid houses
| and expanding the home battery life?
| coleashman wrote:
| Off-grid capable, yes. In my experience having redundant
| systems is a great approach for off-gridding. Pila will happily
| work alongside a whole-home battery system to add extra
| capacity wherever you need it most.
| altairprime wrote:
| What range of sensitivity does this offer? My US apartment
| complex has fluctuating levels of neutral sag 24/7/365 and it's
| unclear how that would interact with your hardware.
| coleashman wrote:
| The off-grid detection is based on a combination of voltage and
| frequency measurement over different time windows, so I'm sorry
| that I won't be able to give you an exact answer on your
| situation. I've lived in apartments with bad high impedance
| neutral connections and it did all kinds of weird things to the
| loads... Hopefully something your apartment complex can look
| into!
| pandemicsyn wrote:
| > no bidirectional power, no integration with solar or smart home
| systems, and no ability to manage home energy dynamically. They
| tend to be boxy, ruggedized, meant to be moved around, not
| seamlessly integrated into your living space. On top of that,
| many use e-mobility battery chemistries, which are great for
| delivering high power on demand but wear out faster when cycled
| daily for home energy use.
|
| I already use an Ecoflow as quasi-UPS in my networking closet and
| one for a chest freezer and its worked great for that. They
| advertise a ~25ms switch over. I think (could be wrong) they also
| have features like scheduled tasks to managed recharge/discharge
| schedules.
|
| Is the main difference between an Ecoflow and this basically the
| form factor?
| jorgen123 wrote:
| Would you be able to avoid leaking back into the grid?
|
| During a recent major weather event outage, a neighbor up the
| street was running a generator, that I think was not properly
| islanded. I experienced it by having some devices making weird
| sounds because they were receiving some low level voltage. They
| were probably leaking to tens of neighbors and losing generator
| output in the process.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| Not just that, it's a danger for the linemen trying to fix the
| neighbourhood.
| coleashman wrote:
| Right! Unintentionally back-feeding is a huge safety risk,
| and I hope that smarter safer solutions will prevail over the
| all-too-common hacky unsafe approaches. But also, I get it.
| I've wired generators back into panels - safely - in
| situations where it's that or no power for days, you start
| taking matters into your own hands
| coleashman wrote:
| Yikes! I've heard so many similar sounding examples of misuse
| of generators and sketchy generator setups. Pila has the grid
| disconnect built in so there's no risk of un-intended backfeed
| when islanded
| choilive wrote:
| This doesn't put power back through the home. It acts more like
| a UPS. You plug in the stuff you need up during an outage to
| the back of it like a power strip.
| lordofgibbons wrote:
| I've just been looking for a UPS for my home lab.
|
| Do your batteries need any kind of an internet connection to set
| up or operate? Assuming I wouldn't want to use the app.
| kingnothing wrote:
| Why not buy a UPS?
| coleashman wrote:
| Internet's not required, and we're aiming to pack as much
| offline functionality in as possible. This includes an MQTT
| based local API (WiFi) and ability to directly tether the phone
| app to the device over WiFi. Certain app features like
| historical usage and utility data integrations may not be
| available if the device isn't internet connected though, just
| to be transparent.
| jmward01 wrote:
| This is almost exactly my question but I'll be a little more
| specific. I want to guarantee that no data about my usage
| leaves my network. You mention local integrations, is there a
| formal commitment to opening up the platform to opensource
| local servers? Similarly, what about always providing
| functionality without sending usage data?
| abetusk wrote:
| 1.6 KWh capacity with 2.4 KW output [0].
|
| I couldn't find a price on the website (the $99 is just for a
| reservation) but from this thread it looks like it's priced at
| $1k [1].
|
| For context, in the USA, 30 KWh is a rough estimate for average
| daily home usage [2].
|
| [0] https://pilaenergy.com/tech-specs#faq
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43333996
|
| [2] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-
| energy/electricit...
| coleashman wrote:
| Thanks for bringing more details to the thread - We've just
| launched, and for folks who like what they see and want to be
| first to get Pila the (refundable, cancel anytime) $99 deposit
| will lock in $999. Once we start shipping and fulfilling
| through other distribution channels, price will increase to
| $1299
|
| Also, spot on that the average home draws about 30kWh, and with
| an EV driven average daily ranges that'll jump to about 60kWh.
| thrill wrote:
| I bought and am using a "Lion Energy Safari Solar Generator" to
| use as a heavy-duty UPS, and it almost but doesn't quite meet my
| needs. It works fine, except about every 15 minutes a quite loud
| cooling fan turns on, to cool the inverters I suspect. This is
| bothersome since my intent to to keep my WiFi and computer and TV
| functional with this particular setup. Does the Pila have a
| similar cooling fan, and if so, is it audible?
|
| Also, FWIW, it appears your web page pricing is slightly cheaper
| per kWh than the Lion, so good on you.
| CharlesW wrote:
| From your site: _" For homes with electricity prices that vary
| throughout the day, Pila optimizes charging to help manage your
| utility bills."_
|
| Based on experiments like
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtNq-0kV8YM, I'm extremely
| skeptical. Can you back this claim?
|
| Also, why are people going to spend $1,300 on this when a good
| UPS is a fraction of the price, and (for example) an Anker SOLIX
| F3800 Plus is $3,200?
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I've used gas and portable "solar/battery" backup generators
| and UPS systems.
|
| The win for me is the form factor. It can slot right next to
| any appliance or utility room shelf. The cost is not bad by
| comparison to portable battery systems, but portable battery
| systems fall into two form factors:
|
| 1. Garage / basement stacks that have to connect to a generator
| hook-up: which itself costs kilo-dollars. And what if my garage
| / utility panel isn't heated? Extreme temp swings can degrade
| these I'd imagine.
|
| 2) carry or roll-away. Which is great for camping or pulling
| out of the closet during an outage, but that's not convenient
| and not what I'm looking for
|
| And finally, the UPS-like standby power beats both options as
| well. The solar generator types don't do passthrough power well
| (they warn against it) and the garage/basement stacks have to
| be connected to a cutover switch anyway.
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong nowadays but this product beats both
| those for these reasons.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| That video's conclusion is misleading - he's only shifting his
| fridge's energy consumption. That's not actually much in the
| grand scheme of things - it's a well-insulated box that is
| already a thermal battery. In fact, he only discharged his
| power bank to 64% at the end of the day, so he didn't even use
| up his full capacity (that he paid for and is factored in his
| spreadsheet).
|
| Batteries can provide significant savings but for that you need
| to actually use them fully, either by load-shifting significant
| loads (if you have enough to fully consume the battery
| capacity), or just charging/discharging the battery directly
| into the grid (essentially acting like a grid storage system -
| charging the battery to full when energy is the cheapest, and
| dumping it back when it's the most profitable). Even better
| when you have solar - instead of selling that energy at low
| feed-in prices, save it in batteries and use it once the sun
| goes down so (if you have enough battery capacity) you never
| ever need to actually "buy" any energy from the grid.
|
| I believe the Pila can technically do the above, although its
| battery capacity is probably too small to ever recoup its
| purchase price on this type of arbitrage. However, the
| underlying concept is absolutely workable and profitable with
| the right equipment.
| rtkwe wrote:
| That conclusion all depends on how much extra power the UPS
| uses while acting as a pass-through. I think the SOLIX doesn't
| directly pass through the power so it's having the
| inefficiencies of conversion to and from AC-DC-AC, maybe this
| version has a more efficient pass-through system?
| metalman wrote:
| off grid here for many years self built systems can do the math
| for solar powered,off grid sytems with battery banks, in my head.
| The numbers posted with battery back up system are so wildly
| inflated as to be absurd, laughable , 32hrs for a fridge, it wont
| run a big fridge for 1 hr, tiny fridge for 5 hrs. bar fridge,
| laptop, phone and one light might make 24hrs, might, when its
| new, hot weather, fergetit. the way it's presented is totaly
| disceptive. This is as best, a nice ,very expensive camping
| accessory or a slightly upsized ups.
| coleashman wrote:
| Hey there - First I will concede it's always hard to give an
| "average" number for something like a fridge, since all fridges
| consume differently based on usage, ambient temperature, ice
| makers, overall capacity. But I'd stand behind our numbers -
| we're not looking to deceive and transparently provide the
| remaining backup time on the device screen and app. For
| whatever it's worth, I've gotten familiar with lots of
| appliance usage data during my time at SPAN, and our average
| wattage heuristics for appliances are in line with what you'll
| see from other batteries' materials. Still, always open to
| hearing ideas for how to help average people put energy usage
| in context. Would you find a calculator module useful on the
| website, so you can enter your own usage data if you know it?
| needSomeCoffee wrote:
| Puget Sound Electric here in Western WA has a very nice feature
| showing usage by hour by day (using their smart meters). We
| live in a relatively small home, and do not use electric heat.
| Yesterday our "vampire draw" was about 0.5 kwh per hour (12am
| to 5am -- nothing really active). Once we got up, fired up the
| coffee pot, and lights, etc. we used 1.3 kwh from 6am to 7am.
| Pia looks like a good UPS for standard appliances, but as a
| whole house solution... Folks really need to understand how
| their home would work using a combinations of Pias. For us, we
| spent about $1k for a Westinghouse 9,000 kwh generator which
| runs on propane, and I put in the fairly inexpensive breaker
| and lock-out in our service panel. Costs were well below $2K.
| When our power goes out (which it does A LOT), simply fire up
| the gen, shut down all the high amp circuits in the house
| panel, and switch service panel input to the gen. Takes less
| than 5 minutes, and everything works apart from some high amp
| devices which we can easily live without short term. Having a
| good backup is important -- moreso with the power system
| strained and more "once a century" events.
| kingnothing wrote:
| Can this cold start or does it need to have grid power to turn
| on?
| coleashman wrote:
| Yep, it can blackstart without AC power from the grid
| pedalpete wrote:
| I love the design, but I wonder about the "selling feature".
|
| How many people regularly experience power outages (ok, if you're
| American relying on Canadian electricity, you might have a right
| to be concerned).
|
| I'm surprised you're not touting the "save on your power bill"
| benefits. Could this not store power when rates are low, and use
| the battery when rates are higher, while maintaining a balanced
| minimum storage amount to ensure power is available should the
| power go out?
|
| I'd think it could be quite smart about this if you looked at
| weather patterns and other factors to calculate a likelihood of
| an outage, and ensured more back-up was available.
|
| From a selling stand-point, isn't saving money every day a better
| feature than "just in case the electricity goes out"?
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Offsetting power usage to the cheaper time is also the only
| possible utility I see here. Unfortunately, last time I ran the
| numbers (against a $10k battery) it would be incredibly
| difficult to recoup your investment over a reasonable
| timeframe. Having to limit this to a single room (fridge, AC,
| whatever) makes it seem even more difficult as the consumption
| you can push is limited.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| > ok, if you're American relying on Canadian electricity, you
| might have a right to be concerned
|
| You don't have to go that far. Puerto Rico is a United States
| territory with a third-world tier power grid. Most Puerto
| Ricans rely on electric generators and battery backup systems
| to survive their day-to-day.
|
| https://www.npr.org/2024/12/31/nx-s1-5243984/puerto-rico-pow...
|
| This is bordering a humanitarian crisis and I'm surprised it
| gets little attention in the mainland. These outages have a
| real human cost: the elderly struggle with maintaining their
| generators. Hospitals rely on generators. Roads and sidewalks
| are in the dark. The haves get diesel delivered; the have-nots
| struggle. Some, especially the elderly, die in fires or
| asphyxia due to their constant operation.
|
| https://www.univision.com/local/puerto-rico-wlii/hombre-muer...
|
| https://www.primerahora.com/noticias/policia-tribunales/nota...
|
| A woman died on New Year's Eve due to a fire in her residence
| while trying to operate a transfer switch. The power was out
| all night across the island.
|
| https://wapa.tv/noticias/locales/falla-en-planta-el-ctrica-p...
|
| Apologies for derailing, but it bothers me how little attention
| this gets. The privatized power company has successfully
| externalized its costs--thousands of Puerto Ricans are going
| into debt to install solar panels. Half of the island lives
| under the poverty line.
|
| People are desperate. A year ago, the Dept of Energy
| established federal incentives for solar panel installations in
| the island. These were the kilometric lines to get a voucher:
|
| https://www.telemundopr.com/noticias/puerto-rico/cientos-de-...
|
| In short:
|
| a) This is a real problem. Puerto Rico has 3.5 million American
| citizens, more than some states.
|
| b) Battery backup systems, solar panel installations and
| generators are a necessity in these areas.
|
| I wish this product was targeted towards lower income families,
| but any innovation in the space is welcome.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| Adding another comment because I can no longer edit my
| original.
|
| - Power instability causes serious economic damage to
| individuals, families and small businesses. Imagine
| establishing a business in an island where you don't know if
| you'll have power today.
|
| - In PR, you don't buy groceries for an entire month. The
| power goes out once and all your food is ruined. Families
| bear the brunt of these reliability failures.
|
| - Outages damage your appliances. This is even more economic
| damage to families and the poor. A couple years ago, in jest,
| protesters from across the island took their damaged
| appliances to the power company headquarters and dropped them
| off there.
|
| - Diabetics have to use generators or special machines to
| keep their insulin refrigerated.
|
| I could keep going. It's a shame that this absurdity is
| happening in the wealthiest country in the world.
| jaggederest wrote:
| > How many people regularly experience power outages
|
| Anecdotally in a major city it was rare I would not have a
| power outage several times a year. In a more rural location
| now, it's rare I have a _month_ without a power outage, some
| very extended.
|
| We have a backup generator and it has saved our frozen foods at
| least a dozen times over the last few years. Installing a
| backup generator costs about $10k for a whole house permanently
| installed unit, so it's not a small cost, and the running and
| maintenance costs are not zero ($5 an hour when running, $100+
| a year for parts and consumables)
| thousand_nights wrote:
| yeah it looks like a fancy tech gadget marketed to people in
| developed countries where you have like one power cut every 2
| years
| syntaxing wrote:
| For what it's worth, Biolite is trying to do something similar
| https://www.bioliteenergy.com/pages/backup. I personally love the
| idea, not needing a permit is already a great feature.
| energygal wrote:
| Agree, it's a great idea! I think this is quite a lot more
| affordable than biolite, and also has smart features that
| biolite lacks. Will be interesting when both products are in
| market and we can see some reviews.
| amluto wrote:
| Two questions:
|
| 1. Have you considered building a "microgrid interconnection
| device" to go with this to allow the batteries to backfeed a
| house in the event of an outage? (This would require native 240V
| split-phase capability and/or an auto-transformer.)
|
| 2. Have you considered removing the fade-in-when-scrolling
| abomination on your website?
| coleashman wrote:
| 1. I'm actually hopeful we see a generic MID standard emerge
| with folks like ConnectDER well positioned to support that, so
| more homes can benefit and households can gain the ability to
| flexibly try different batteries without ripping out their
| panels every time. If not, we could definitely build our own
| (helped build 2 generations of Tesla's MID as well as 3
| generations of SPAN Panels with MID functionality). Happy to
| nerd out on the topic anytime :)
|
| 2. Feedback taken hah
| jaggederest wrote:
| MID = Microgrid Interconnect Device ?
|
| DER = Distributed Energy Resource ?
|
| SPAN = an energy device company https://www.span.io/ ?
|
| Just had to check the definition of some acronyms and thought
| others might find the results helpful inline.
| linsomniac wrote:
| 1: And of course some sort of isolation of the house from the
| grid when it's back-feeding.
| coleashman wrote:
| Yep, and to clarify Pila includes an MID onboard so while
| Intentionally Islanded there is no backfeed. But in terms of
| a whole-home disconnect, I believe we'll see more generic
| options appear that are somewhat DER-agnostic.
| rtkwe wrote:
| 1) Can't be automated without a failover switch to disconnect
| the house from the grid so it doesn't back feed into the actual
| power lines outside the house and either break or risk injuring
| linemen who think a line has been disconnected and isolated.
| mrb wrote:
| What a noble mission to make energy independence more accessible
| like this, even to renters!
|
| I read your site, watched the video, but I still don't understand
| why you implemented a mesh network? Why multiple batteries need
| it to synchronize? Aren't they completely independent? Why would
| the fridge battery need to communicate with the other battery
| powering your lights?
|
| Also, as an angel investor, I'm curious to know how much capital
| you have raised or invested so far?
|
| Thanks.
| coleashman wrote:
| To give more functionality around energy management, we wanted
| all of the batteries to be able to work in concert. We could
| have gone with "any old wireless" network to coordinate the
| batteries. One thing that's really stuck with me from building
| products at Span and Tesla is how important reliable connection
| is over years of operation. Depending on consumer wifi is a
| huge pain for reliability (changed passwords, inhomogeneous
| equipment, etc), using cellular is OK but has latency
| limitations and can be expensive. Existing stacks like Zigbee
| just had other limitations we wanted to avoid, so we realized
| borrowing from the world of the mesh wifi systems could offer a
| lot of what's needed. If we do our job right, the result will
| be a reliable connection over the years, that also facilitates
| easy addition of new battery nodes as you go, as your needs
| evolve.
|
| re: funding, We've not yet made our detailed financing info
| public, but you can check out crunchbase for some insights on
| our investors to date!
| sergiomattei wrote:
| I was born and raised in Puerto Rico. The power goes out every
| couple of days.
|
| These products are a lifesaver in places where the electric grid
| is unreliable. Most Puerto Ricans rely on generators and battery
| backup devices to power their day-to-day life.
|
| 1) At the price point, lower-income countries with unreliable
| grids are not the target audience. If not that, then who? Off-
| grid wealthy individuals?
|
| 2) This app-controlled system MUST work offline. In wide-scale
| power outages, diesel generators in cell towers die out or get
| looted fairly quickly. Cable coax repeaters for home internet
| stop working almost immediately.
|
| This latter scenario must be first in mind. Telecommunications
| will be gone in give or take 5 days after a large disaster or
| outage.
|
| As for positive notes: loving the industrial design and battery
| mesh idea.
| coleashman wrote:
| I'd love to see the price continue to come down, so more and
| more folks can get these products. Compared to the expensive
| install of a large battery systems, I'd call it a step in the
| right direction but I agree we need to make these even more
| accessible. Features like energy management and demand response
| can improve the economics in some markets, but low upfront cost
| is the ultimate goal. Most of my family in Louisiana are
| similarly not considering smarter backup systems seriously
| because of the cost and either "do nothing" in outages, rely on
| neighbors' generators, or have unreliable pull-start generators
| in their garage.
|
| Yes, yes, and yes on offline performance! We're on it!
| gwbas1c wrote:
| So it's just a smarter UPS, (that can integrate with solar
| panels) but you only compare it to a standby generator.
|
| Seems like you need to compare it to a UPS too, because that's
| what it really, really is.
| coleashman wrote:
| This audience is definitely more up on tech - I've been
| surprised how often folks I talk to have never heard of UPS's!
|
| We know we're not the first people to think of automatic plug
| in backup :) Aspirationally, we aim to do to the UPS what the
| Powerwall did to the lead acid battery bank -- Bring it into
| the 21st century, level up to better technology, add software
| intelligence so it's not sitting idle 99% of the time, and
| improve the design and usability to make it a more exciting and
| valuable product for more homes
| Glyptodon wrote:
| So what is the coordination between batteries doing? Is it moving
| electricity through the walls to balance things when the grid is
| down? How is it different than a typical UPS like for servers or
| other electronics? Just bigger/longer lasting battery? What
| integration need is their with typical home systems? (Beyond
| things like turning them off when battery gets low?)
|
| I kind of don't really get what having an app for a battery does
| that just sticking UPSs everywhere doesn't, other than maybe
| having a better battery.
| typewithrhythm wrote:
| The simple case I can think of is priority charging, with total
| load limiting. Since solar supply is variable you want to avoid
| drawing from the grid if possible, and you want batteries
| attached to things that will draw the most expensive power (by
| typical usage time) to fill first.
| coleashman wrote:
| Appreciate the question! The coordination is similar to what a
| whole-home battery might be doing for you, depending on how you
| configure it: Timing charging to follow real-time solar
| production, energy arbitrage to shift home usage to times of
| day when electricity is cheaper (e.g. TOU rates, big in my neck
| of the woods in California), "storm mode" to charge up
| automatically when severe weather alerts are issued, and
| eventually things like Demand Response for grid services which
| you can get paid from if you opt into. Beyond the battery
| control stuff, locally sharing energy data across the batteries
| across your home can help build a model of energy usage to help
| make sense of your usage, look out for anomalies in your home
| wiring, and more -- And doing this with a local connection just
| means it can be a more reliable, more resilient system, even
| providing this sort of value when internet drops out
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > What's been your experience with home batteries? What recent
| power outages have you had, and how were you affected?
|
| I love my Powerwall, but it's not powerful enough to power my
| HVAC. (Heat pump in a northern climate.) I wish I spent more
| money on a more powerful one.
|
| The payout I got last year for the virtual power plant was
| phenomenal. If they continue for a decade or so, the Powerwall
| will come close to paying for itself.
|
| That being said, when I was a renter, I once went looking for a
| UPS for my CPAP. I never experienced long outages. (Just the one
| where the Tesla exec flew into a powerline and died.) I don't
| think I'd spend $1000 on one of these. Even if I hacked together
| a solar panel onto one, apartments are so small that it seems
| like it's overkill.
| tonetegeatinst wrote:
| Wait, a Tesla exec flew into a power line?
|
| When was this?
| Bedon292 wrote:
| I definitely like it. I experience regular outages and have a
| whole home generator because of it. But that takes time and isn't
| cleat. So this is basically how I already have everything set up,
| with ~6 UPSs scattered around. And I have looked at the whole
| home systems to get away from that. But the mesh with smart
| features is definitely interesting.
|
| Does it have any power cleaning functionality? I have occasional
| issues with voltage drop and it and confuses some of my stuff.
| The input V is out of range and it cannot get it back up to 120V
| so it ends up just turning off to avoid passing through to the
| equipment.
|
| And how about any automatic load shedding? I have some which will
| start turning off outlets based on percent battery left, to power
| the most important stuff longer.
|
| You also mention moving past the basic lead acid UPS. I can't
| seem to find it anywhere, are you not using lead acid batteries?
| Or what are you using? Will I be able to buy a replacement
| battery up the street at the battery store like I can my current
| UPSs? Or will I be locked in to buying replacements from you?
|
| Also looks like you have Smart Outlet Strips mentioned, which are
| only 3 outlets. Any plans for something more substantial? Like
| 12s? Most places I have UPSs there are many things plugged in and
| a single 12 would be preferable over multiple.
| vasco wrote:
| Pila means cock (as in dick) in Portuguese and this whole post
| and website are hilarious. Dick energy. I'm holding off tears.
| Definitely wouldn't recommend plugging in your pila into any
| outlet.
| luis_cho wrote:
| One time set-up: 1- Plug Pila in :D
| redeeman wrote:
| the website doesnt even display any text when running noscript
| on.
|
| how energy efficient is your website? is it really needed to run
| loads of scripts to display mere text?
| robomartin wrote:
| I have two questions:
|
| How are you funded?
|
| Hardware products are capital intensive. The cost of inventory
| alone can be a killer. The problem with buying a product like
| this is that an underfunded company can go "poof" inside of a
| year by quickly getting over its skis and gasping for air
| (money). And, of course, warranties are only as good as the life
| of the company.
|
| How much/how was it tested?
|
| Managing power can be dangerous. I get that your experience
| telegraphs that you are more than qualified for the task.
| However, established companies invest a non trivial amount of
| money into products in order to, among other things, ensure they
| are safe when manufactured and deployed at scale. Heavy abuse
| with environmental chambers, EMC emissions and susceptibility, as
| well as corner cases (fridge compressor over-current event, SMPS
| on a computer exceeding startup currents, etc.) are examples of
| this. This kind of testing isn't trivial, can take a long time
| and cost a lot of money. BTW, just going through UL, CE, TUV,
| etc. testing isn't equivalent to a solid testing program.
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