[HN Gopher] Kissing moons may explain why Earth's moon is so large
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Kissing moons may explain why Earth's moon is so large
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 95 points
       Date   : 2025-03-08 22:35 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cbc.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cbc.ca)
        
       | kristianc wrote:
       | Moon size is completely relative of course. Ganymede is larger
       | than Mercury.
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | Titan as well.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | By size, the Solar System has 4 Mercury-sized bodies:
           | Mercury, Ganymede and Callisto (the 2 bigger of the 4 big
           | satellites of Jupiter), and Titan (satellite of Saturn).
           | 
           | There are also 4 Moon-sized bodies: the Moon, Io and Europa
           | (the 2 smaller of the 4 big satellites of Jupiter), and
           | Triton (satellite of Neptune).
           | 
           | Pluto is smaller than Triton, but not much smaller. It is the
           | next in size after these bodies and it could be considered to
           | belong to the same size class as the Moon-sized bodies,
           | because the next smaller bodies are significantly smaller.
           | While Pluto is not a satellite of Neptune, like the
           | satellites it does not have an independent movement, but one
           | that is connected to the movement of Neptune through an
           | orbital resonance.
        
             | npongratz wrote:
             | The Neptune-Pluto gravitational resonance is pretty neat.
             | Wikipedia has a nice listing of other orbital resonances in
             | the solar system:
             | 
             | Likely gravitional:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance#Mean-
             | motion_...
             | 
             | Likely coincidental:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance#Coincidenta
             | l...
        
             | Figs wrote:
             | Eris is slightly smaller than Pluto in volume -- but more
             | massive; it might also be worth considering in that same
             | class.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | You are right, Eris is close enough in size to Pluto and
               | to the other 4 Moon-sized objects to be considered in the
               | same class size.
               | 
               | In the past, for a long time the uncertainties about the
               | sizes of Pluto and of Eris were great, so it was not
               | clear how close in size they are to the other much better
               | known Moon-sized bodies.
        
         | nextts wrote:
         | They define a large moon in terms of its size compared to the
         | host planet.
        
         | npongratz wrote:
         | For what it's worth (nothing, just interesting to note):
         | Ganymede is larger, and less dense. Mercury's mass is more than
         | twice Ganymede's.
        
           | aaronblohowiak wrote:
           | That is a fun fact! Gave me a smile to think about our solar
           | system's variety. Thank you!
        
           | pitaj wrote:
           | Interesting. Is that because of different material makeup, or
           | is it somehow related to tidal forces?
        
             | npongratz wrote:
             | My understanding is that the composition of each body is
             | different. There's the obvious: More ices and liquids
             | comprise Ganymede, possible since Ganymede is so distant
             | from the Sun. And the not-so-obvious: Mercury is
             | anomalously dense due in part to (likely) having a
             | disproportionally large core of iron and nickel.
             | 
             | I find Wikipedia's discussion about Mercury's density in
             | contrast to Earth's fascinating [0]:
             | 
             | > If the effect of gravitational compression were to be
             | factored out from both planets, the materials of which
             | Mercury is made would be denser than those of Earth, with
             | an uncompressed density of 5.3 g/cm3 versus Earth's 4.4
             | g/cm3.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)#Internal
             | _stru...
        
       | randallsquared wrote:
       | Where would the energy come from to separate two such bodies that
       | were already in contact, the size of Pluto and Charon?
        
         | Sharlin wrote:
         | It was not well explained in the article, but the simulation
         | timestamps indicate that it would all have happened just over
         | sixty hours or so. So a comparatively short kiss during which a
         | lot of dynamic stuff was still happening.
        
         | kwertzzz wrote:
         | It would also be interesting to know how the orbits became
         | quite circular afterwards (relative to the common center of
         | mass).
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | "Kissing", "contact", and photos of objects like Arrokoth are
         | too misleading.
         | 
         | The Earth/Moon and Pluto/Charon situations started with
         | extremely high speed collisions (plenty of kinetic energy)
         | between separate bodies. Those collisions were spectacular
         | sideswipes (vs. head-on), so there was also a huge amount of
         | rotational inertia. That's another must-have, to end up with
         | two bodies orbiting each other.
        
         | whiw wrote:
         | Presumably from tidal forces, from the differential of the
         | gravity field in the presence of nearby massive objects (like
         | the sun, or jupiter).
        
         | tejtm wrote:
         | It could be largely a redistribution of rotational energy in
         | the system. Where they contacted could not particularly stable,
         | heat would be generated, energy dissipated. maybe ice state
         | change helps, with luck a messy rolling contact could become a
         | series of slingshot orbits, but I am just making stuff up here
        
           | nextts wrote:
           | New book idea: Does God play billiards?
        
       | _ink_ wrote:
       | The article states that Earth's moon was captured by a "slap in
       | the face" rather than by a kiss. Pluto's moon is the one captured
       | by a kiss.
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | Oxygen isotope ratios on the Moon are extremely close to those
         | on Earth, which indicates intimate sharing of material during
         | the event.
        
           | consp wrote:
           | So a very French kiss?
        
             | pfdietz wrote:
             | There was definitely sharing of bodily fluids.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | > _Dwarf planet Pluto and our Earth are the only two worlds in
         | our solar system with very large moons. These may have come
         | about by a "kiss and capture" process, which preserves a moon's
         | large size._
         | 
         | > _The Earth 's moon is believed to have formed from a similar
         | process, the researchers explained in a written statement, but
         | it was more like a slap in the face rather than a kiss._
         | 
         | Yup, that's just bad writing. Decide on your metaphor and stick
         | to it. Don't say something is X, and then halfway through the
         | article say it's not X.
        
         | emmelaich wrote:
         | NASA simulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlhlCWplqk
        
           | stronglikedan wrote:
           | Aw, it's like the friend that's walking a quarter mile behind
           | the group screaming "guys, wait up!", but no one ever waits.
        
       | dghughes wrote:
       | FYI the author of the CBC article is science reporter Bob
       | MacDonald he's like the Canadian equivalent of Bill Nye the
       | Science Guy. Bob has been around what seems like forever.
       | 
       | edit: he also hosts the radio program Quirks and Quarks.
       | https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks
        
         | interestica wrote:
         | Bob's such a great example of forging one's own path and
         | finding one's passion.
         | 
         | He failed grade 9. He went to university but dropped out by
         | second year. Traditional learning models just were not for him
         | at the time. But he showed that communicating science was much
         | more about the human element; much more about the
         | _communication_. He might be more like Canada's Carl Sagan.
        
           | MajimasEyepatch wrote:
           | I'm sure he's great, but that CV sounds much more like Bill
           | Nye (Boeing engineer turned comic turned science
           | communicator) than Carl Sagan, who was an active scientist
           | and researcher his entire career while also doing science
           | communication. Sagan was precocious and started college
           | early, but after that he seems to have had a relatively
           | traditional scientific career path until he became famous.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-03-11 23:01 UTC)