[HN Gopher] uBlock Origin is no longer available on the Chrome S...
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       uBlock Origin is no longer available on the Chrome Store
        
       Author : non-
       Score  : 1296 points
       Date   : 2025-03-10 17:30 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (chromewebstore.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (chromewebstore.google.com)
        
       | Jalad wrote:
       | The last Chrome update also disabled it for me because it's a
       | manifest v2 extension. I use firefox on my personal computers,
       | but might need to switch on my work PCs as well
        
       | whitepoplar wrote:
       | uBlock Origin Lite is still available, thankfully.
        
         | ssgao wrote:
         | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin-lite/...
        
         | armada651 wrote:
         | But for how long? I'm sure Google is hard at work on Manifest
         | V4.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | What is lost by going to this version?
        
           | p_ing wrote:
           | The wiki outlines the differences.
           | 
           | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-
           | as...
        
           | desdenova wrote:
           | dignity
        
           | chrisweekly wrote:
           | custom filters / block lists
        
             | dowager_dan99 wrote:
             | also you'd think that the pushers of this agenda would get
             | real-time updates to things like block lists metadata. God
             | knows they do it themselves several times a day...
        
             | iszomer wrote:
             | Realistically, how often is this functionality used en'
             | mass? I remember using it once or twice throughout my
             | lifetime of using this extension.
        
               | jisnsm wrote:
               | An ad blocker is useless to me if I can't block whatever
               | I want with it.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | It's _useless_ if it blocks 99.9% of what you need, but
               | not the custom 0.1% you want on top?
        
               | jisnsm wrote:
               | As long as I have an alternative I would never choose the
               | ad blocker that doesn't let me block the elements I want.
               | 
               | For most websites I don't care but there are many
               | websites that I visit very often and removing annoying or
               | useless elements and padding is practically mandatory at
               | this point - I wouldn't want to go back to not being able
               | to do it.
               | 
               | So, answering your question, yes, "useless" was
               | hyperbole.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | I use different extensions for blocking individual
               | elements on pages, like sticky headers or other custom
               | divs. They're still working fine, e.g.:
               | 
               | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/click-to-remove-
               | ele...
        
           | whstl wrote:
           | If it's anything like Safari's declarative blocklists:
           | 
           | Ad blocking on Youtube.
           | 
           | Youtube-blocking Safari extensions "solve" Youtube blocking
           | by using non-declarative APIs that need full access to
           | Youtube. Apple seems ok with that so far, but the APIs are
           | not as goods, so their success rate is limited.
           | 
           | Whether Google will allow _new_ extensions that block Youtube
           | remains to be seen.
        
             | betaby wrote:
             | Could you please tell me what "Youtube-blocking Safari
             | extensions" are you referring? Are they MacOS only or can
             | be installed on IPad? Thanks!
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | Sure! AdBlock Pro blocks video ads for me, but it shows
               | non-video ads that you gotta skip.
               | 
               | On iPad I just use Brave and haven't seen an ad yet.
        
               | keybits wrote:
               | I can recommend Wipr 2 - excellent blocker from a great
               | developer. I've now switched to Safari for all my YouTube
               | watching. Universal purchase works on macOS, ipadOS and
               | iOS.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | > _Ad blocking on Youtube._
             | 
             | uBlock Origin Lite blocks all ads on YouTube for me.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | Google push out updates at regular intervals that detect
               | the adblocker
               | 
               | why didn't you notice before? ublock origin has a special
               | quick fixes list which updates very frequently, without
               | Google's involvement
               | 
               | but with manifest v3: Google are now in charge and have
               | to approve all "definition" updates
               | 
               | which they will only do once they've got a new detection
               | method ready
               | 
               | and this is the entire point of manifest v3
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | Just saying, I've been using Lite for months. It's been
               | fine.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | they'd have to be really, really stupid to start doing it
               | before their main countermeasure has been removed
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | >but with manifest v3: Google are now in charge and have
               | to approve all "definition" updates
               | 
               | No, they don't. MV3 extensions are allowed to fetch
               | remote data which definition updates would be.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | > uBlock Origin Lite blocks all ads on YouTube for me.
               | 
               | Someone else is saying uBlock Origin Lite leaves a
               | "skippable blank" where the ad used to be, while I know
               | for a fact uBlock Origin completely and transparently
               | skipped over the ad.
               | 
               | Could you confirm?
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | It completely blocks it.
               | 
               | But you have to change the toggle from basic filtering
               | mode to complete filtering mode.
               | 
               | I think some people just haven't realized that.
        
       | bearjaws wrote:
       | Nobody could have possibly seen it coming that Google would abuse
       | its market position to their own benefit...
       | 
       | I migrated off Chrome as soon as this BS story about improving
       | privacy, a joke coming from Google. Then the excuse was "well it
       | improves performance", which they could easily do by marking
       | extensions as low performance.
       | 
       | If Google wanted to improve this they have an entire search
       | engine where they could re-rank sites based on privacy and
       | performance.
       | 
       | It was never about improving peoples web experience.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | People have come to accept dishonesty and sociopathy from
         | corporations as normal and even acceptable unfortunately.
        
           | iAMkenough wrote:
           | I view it as a symptom of the broader effort to villify the
           | fourth estate and condition people to act(vote) on their
           | emotions rather than a rational look at verifiable facts.
        
             | ta1243 wrote:
             | Nearly 20 years of attacks, from both the left and the
             | right, across the anglosphere.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | It goes back waaaaaaay further than 20 years.
               | 
               | The most recent case before this was nearly 40 years ago
               | under Reagan, and he certainly wasn't the first president
               | guilty of it.
        
               | ta1243 wrote:
               | This isn't a Trump thing.
               | 
               | The "Main Stream Media" rhetoric really started with the
               | teaparty stuff, powered by the internet, and championed
               | both the right (tea party in america, faragists in the
               | UK) and left (corbynistas in the uk, AOC types I assume
               | in the states)
        
             | keybored wrote:
             | Villifying normal people is more nefarious.
             | 
             | But who told you that there is a Fourth Estate? Was it the
             | very "Fourth Estate"?
        
         | jstummbillig wrote:
         | They had the market position and option to do that for years
         | now. "Told you so" whenever a patterns matches, and ignoring
         | the times when it does not instead of providing a good model
         | that encompasses both, is a fairly lame way to reason about the
         | world.
        
           | smt88 wrote:
           | "They didn't immediately abuse their market power!"
           | 
           | Great. Very few companies do. What difference does it make?
           | 
           | We don't give bankrobbers credit for all the days they
           | could've robbed a bank but didn't.
        
           | zanellato19 wrote:
           | The position is always, Google's position is so strong they
           | can do whatever they want even if it isn't beneficial to
           | users, this confirms that. I'm not sure the "they could have
           | abused this sooner" defense is a good one.
        
             | glenstein wrote:
             | Not only not a good defense, but practically
             | indecipherable. What scale of abuse couldn't be excused by
             | this? I'm not sure I even understand what the notion of
             | abuse means to a person who thinks it could be excused by
             | such a logic.
             | 
             | It seems to completely lose track of the face value
             | significance of any individual instance of abuse because it
             | gets lost in the comparative equation to hypothetical worst
             | harms.
             | 
             | It also confusingly treats restraint as though X amount of
             | restraint can then be cashed in for a certain amount of
             | harm, rather than something that's supposed to happen by
             | default under good stewardship.
             | 
             | And it shifts the whole question to whether or not that
             | position is being abused when I think the criticisms are
             | more fundamental about the fact that they shouldn't be in
             | the position to have or not have that leverage in the first
             | place.
             | 
             | So that, long and short, would be my detox from the
             | assumptions at play here.
        
             | jstummbillig wrote:
             | The point is, that always looking for abuse is maybe not
             | the right model to explain what is really going on.
        
           | BiteCode_dev wrote:
           | I've never killed anyone, should I get your gratitude for it?
        
             | glenstein wrote:
             | It's funny that this line of defense is sincerely attempted
             | here, as it's so absurd that it's actually the punchline of
             | an SMBC comic. And honestly, one of my favorite ones that I
             | find genuinely very funny.
             | 
             | >Lawyer: Okay, let's say my client killed his wife. What
             | about the people he didn't kill?! That's six billion
             | people! Don't they matter? Don't they matter?!
             | 
             | >Caption: In an alternate universe, Jeffrey Dahmer has a
             | thank you parade every year.
             | 
             | https://smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=299
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | "Nobody could have possibly seen it coming that Google would
         | abuse its market position to their own benefit..."
         | 
         | That's some fatalistic wording. How about:
         | 
         | Company that publishes a free product and business model relies
         | on ads, stops distributing app that piggybacks on their free
         | product while circumventing ads.
        
           | klabb3 wrote:
           | Also true. But it's a charitable way of putting a
           | fundamentally broken contract on the open web since it was
           | invented: you are in control of your browser. If you want
           | reading mode, large text, anti-fingerprinting, disable
           | autoplaying video, heck even banning popups, the browser is
           | your tool and does what you tell it to. If Google or any
           | other company comes between you and your browser then one
           | part of the open web is discarded. I think extensions are
           | gonna get nerfed even more in the future, for whatever reason
           | large commercial interests have.
        
             | glenstein wrote:
             | Right. I think people were alert to these possibilities
             | long before the actual stuff happened with Manifest V3.
             | 
             | And it shouldn't take waiting until specific examples
             | happen to understand the incentives and the possibilities
             | that could ripen at some future date.
             | 
             | And just to throw in my little side hobby horse on this
             | conversation, it's what I find personally frustrating about
             | conversations with people who think that Brave counts as an
             | alternative.
             | 
             | Being attached at the hip to the Chromium project is a
             | ground level commitment to a long-term vulnerability, and
             | it means that similar circumstances could "ripen" at some
             | future date as the family of Chromium browsers become
             | dependent on an increasingly vast foundation of code and
             | web standards. To me, the combination of that capability
             | and the incentive should be enough to be treated as a
             | complete argument which disqualifies Chromium derived
             | browsers from counting as alternatives.
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | Sure. You are free to modify your browser.
             | 
             | But chrome is free to choose not to distribute that plugin.
             | If you want you can download it elsewhere.
        
           | oa834j5o wrote:
           | It was never free. The revenue streams are just hidden. It
           | has always collected and sold huge amounts of data about
           | every user.
           | 
           | And regardless, using their ownership of the browser to shut
           | down competitors is the very definition of "anti-competitive"
           | "monopolistic" behavior.
        
           | akaij wrote:
           | To me it's just another decision rooted in greed, to take
           | away more Agency from the User Agent.
        
           | ndriscoll wrote:
           | Right, and that's why ad and spying funded products should be
           | illegal. They don't just distort but destroy markets. It's an
           | extremely unfair business practice.
           | 
           | That people claim it's impossible for a browser to survive
           | without Google's funding demonstrates how broken the market
           | is by ad money: of course people would pay for something like
           | a web browser if it were illegal to make money by selling
           | your users. The web is obviously valuable to people.
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | >Right, and that's why ad and spying funded products should
             | be illegal. They don't just distort but destroy markets.
             | It's an extremely unfair business practice.
             | 
             | Call your senator and propose a bill, otherwise we'll keep
             | doing what's legal.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | 100% agree with you. Unfortunately Chrome is damn near a
         | requirement if you are interacting with the Google Cloud
         | console. Try to use BigQuery studio in any other browser and
         | you are in for a world of hurt.
         | 
         | Have we seen this movie before?
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | Exactly the reason why I use https://choosy.app to always
           | redirect everything Google Cloud to Chrome, but everything
           | else to Firefox.
           | 
           | That way if I click on some random GCP link in Slack it opens
           | the link in Chrome, but everything else stays in Firefox. I
           | don't need ad blocking for GCP so that works fine.
           | 
           | Sucks, but better than using Chrome full time.
        
             | wintermutestwin wrote:
             | That's a useful app for people who use different browsers
             | for different tasks -thanks!
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Other Chromium-based browsers don't work?
           | 
           | That would at least save you from stuff like
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252.
        
             | whalesalad wrote:
             | I haven't tried anything but Chrome/Chromium (nightly dev).
             | Brave is my dedicated porn browser I won't use it for
             | anything else.
        
               | kelvinjps10 wrote:
               | Wtf
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Like most browsers, Brave can be used with multiple user
               | profiles in parallel.
        
               | califool wrote:
               | BAHAHAAHAHAHAH. Do you get bitcoins for watching the porn
               | ads?
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | Your loss. Chromium is the shittiest Chromium-based
               | browser, basically anything else is better than the
               | original.
        
           | muizelaar wrote:
           | I use BigQuery studio often in Firefox and haven't noticed
           | anything being worse than Chrome. What problems do you see?
        
             | whalesalad wrote:
             | I use it all the time on multiple platforms and it is a DOG
             | on anything but Chrome/Chromium. We have 30+ datasets each
             | with many tables/views/functions etc tho so that could be
             | part of the issue.
             | 
             | Same thing will happen in the billing portal or really any
             | experience but I notice it the most in BQ.
        
             | Zak wrote:
             | I recently had cause to sign in to the Google Cloud console
             | (not BigQuery specifically) and found it unusable on
             | Firefox. It pegged a core at 100% and consumed memory at a
             | prodigious rate. Basic UI actions were painfully slow.
             | 
             | I killed the tab and tried it in Chromium where the UI
             | was... not snappy, but in range for my expectations of a
             | heavyweight frontend.
        
               | bornfreddy wrote:
               | Yeah, I use Chromium for anything Google made, and FF for
               | everything else. Google makes sure that their pages work
               | sloooowly on Firefox (e.g. Google Earth). No such
               | problems elsewhere.
        
           | kazinator wrote:
           | Yes; the movie where running genuine Microsoft Windows is
           | damn near a requirement if you want to interact with Windows
           | applications.
           | 
           | Using Firefox and whatever for the Google cloud is kinda like
           | running Windos applications in Wine or ReactOS.
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | > kinda like running Windos applications in Wine
             | 
             | Sometimes works better than on the original Windows? I
             | assume that's not what you meant though :-)
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | I could have meant that. Doesn't Firefox sometimes work
               | better than Chrome?
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | The issue I have is not that they did it; it's that they lied
         | about why.
         | 
         | Chrome is their project, they should be free to do whatever
         | they want with it. People can use a different browser if they
         | wish (I do).
         | 
         | This whole "better for users" bullshit is why I don't respect
         | Google as a company. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.
        
           | zanellato19 wrote:
           | Their engineers genuinely believe that shit too, which is
           | just absurd bullshit.
        
             | skotobaza wrote:
             | Do they really? Or are you assuming?
        
               | hansvm wrote:
               | I've seen a lot of their engineers here on HN defending
               | Google's position, and very few of the anti-Google crowd
               | here claim to be (x)googlers.
               | 
               | That said, I know a number of xooglers (myself included)
               | who don't believe for a moment that this would have
               | gotten off the ground if someone important hadn't opined
               | on the usefulness WRT ad-serving.
        
               | zanellato19 wrote:
               | I have seen engineers defend that position here and on
               | Github, so unless you assume they're lying, I would take
               | them at their word.
               | 
               | Of course not all of them do, Google is a big company.
        
             | grumpy_coder wrote:
             | More like the willfully blind engineers, disingenuously
             | claim to believe that absurd bullshit. There's not a lot
             | genuine left in that company.
        
             | yard2010 wrote:
             | Perfect time to read again The Gervais Principle!
             | 
             | https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-
             | principle-...
        
               | photonthug wrote:
               | Ah yes, "determinedly deluded loyalty to the company that
               | will never be loyal to him".
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | Actually I have a problem is both. Chrome/Chromium is
           | Google's product and it's theirs to do with what they please,
           | but if they do user-hostile things with it, that's enough to
           | criticise them for me, even if they're honest about it.
           | 
           | Of course lying about why makes it worse, but I don't think
           | it would've been that much more okay if Google was honest and
           | said "users' ability to install highly effective ad blockers
           | hurts our bottom line so we're removing them".
        
           | pca006132 wrote:
           | And I don't understand what is the benefit of lying as well -
           | everyone on the internet knows what this is about, at least
           | if they used ad blockers. A lot of people don't, but they
           | will not be affected anyway.
        
             | nabaraz wrote:
             | Only users who are tech-savy know they are lying.
             | 
             | My mom, who has Ublock Origin installed on her Chrome by
             | me, will never know these details.
        
           | princevegeta89 wrote:
           | Where I live, Google rented out a huge Billboard to advertise
           | Chrome, and it cites Chrome as "the world's most trusted
           | browser"
           | 
           | I LOL every time I see it. Imagine the lengths they have to
           | go to, to try to make people trust a product they have.
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Trusted is known to not be the same as trustworthy.
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | The Bible is a widely trusted source on topics such as
               | the origin of the world, and life.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Repeat the lie often enough and loud enough, it becomes
             | accepted as truth. A billboard is pretty loud in this
             | context.
        
             | keybored wrote:
             | Like Chomsky said: (corporate) propaganda is incredibly
             | widespread but about an ankle deep.
        
           | marricks wrote:
           | > Chrome is their project, they should be free to do whatever
           | they want with it.
           | 
           | Google has a long history of "accidentally" breaking gmail on
           | firefox and funneling users to Chrome back in the day. It's
           | beyond stupid to argue they should be able to do whatever
           | they want with their vertically integrated monopoly.
           | 
           | Like, if you want to dig holes in your own driveway sure
           | whatever, but if you own all the roads in Detroit and you
           | want to dig holes in them, then make a killing selling new
           | tires and suspension repair a fair society wouldn't move out
           | of Detroit, they'd fucking run you out of town.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | If people don't like this, they can stop using gmail.
             | Neither Chrome, nor Gmail is a monopoly.
             | 
             | The more things Google does to make gmail less useful, the
             | better.
             | 
             | It's no secret that Google is an ad company. Anyone still
             | using gmail deserves what they get.
        
               | marricks wrote:
               | Why be bitter at the people dealing with the shit, why
               | not be angry at the people making the world shit? My
               | company uses gmail so I'm forced to use it.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Everyone dealing with gmail is doing so because they
               | chose to.
               | 
               | Let's not pretend this was done unto them. Anyone can
               | stop using gmail at any time.
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | No, not for all types of "dealing with".
               | 
               | If you're dealing with spam originating from Gmail,
               | without any helpful action from Google, that's not really
               | your choice.
               | 
               | If you're dealing with difficulties sending mail to Gmail
               | users, without help from Google, that's also not really
               | your choice.
               | 
               | If _vast numbers of other people_ stopped using Gmail,
               | those problems would mostly go away.
        
               | klardotsh wrote:
               | Except for anyone whose employer requires them to use
               | Google services, since Google Apps (or whatever they call
               | it these days) is a hugely popular offering for central
               | company email/contacts/calendar/office suite. And
               | frankly, it's better than dealing with Outlook and its
               | unrelenting AI slop machine advertising.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | GP Post: > My company uses gmail so I'm forced to use it.
               | 
               | Your post: > Everyone dealing with gmail is doing so
               | because they chose to.
               | 
               | No, it's clear that not everyone dealing with Gmail is
               | doing so because they chose to. Repeating your incorrect
               | statement does not make it correct.
               | 
               | Further, everyone has to deal with its impacts on the
               | email ecosystem as it's practically impossible for
               | somebody who works a 9-5 to run their own mail server
               | that Gmail will deign to not only accept mail from but
               | also successfully deliver it to its intended recipient.
               | 
               | So even if I never use Gmail I still have to deal with
               | replies going to / coming from it.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | > _Anyone can stop using gmail at any time._
               | 
               | Just going to copy/paste this part of the comment you
               | replied to, because it seems like you may have missed it?
               | 
               | > _My company uses gmail so I 'm forced to use it._
        
               | eszed wrote:
               | Indeed. I'd like to. Except Google also make it nigh
               | impossible for anyone hosting their own email (the
               | original-internet ideal) to get email _into_ gmail
               | reliably enough to be useful. I have my own address on my
               | own domain, but can 't rely on it (yes, DKIM and DMARC
               | and SPF are properly set up) not to be marked "spam" for
               | opaque reasons, so gmail remains my "main" address. It's
               | a network-effect problem: once enough people are
               | "captured", then everyone else is forced to join - or
               | else be unable to participate.
               | 
               | It's a collective action problem: you'll have to persuade
               | millions and millions of "normies", who have no idea
               | what's going on, or what internet privacy is, or what's
               | broken about the system, and who don't care to learn, and
               | won't listen to us - or you'll have to impose regulation.
               | Those are the choices. The second seems more possible
               | than the first. Us nerds saying "walk away" is
               | idealistic; we will, and always will, get squished,
               | because the corps have the power and most folks won't
               | (ever) care.
        
               | throwaway7679 wrote:
               | > Anyone can stop using gmail at any time
               | 
               | True, and applies to many other things as well. Anyone
               | claiming otherwise is shirking responsibility for their
               | own actions. Every single sibling comment here suffers
               | from this.
               | 
               | Arguments in the form of "other people do it, so I must
               | also" are unpersuasive and pathetic.
        
               | hn_acc1 wrote:
               | Not me - it's work mandated.
               | 
               | Not my wife - her school board mandates it.
        
               | kazinator wrote:
               | Ah, but who is really making the world shit? Google and
               | their ilk? Or the millions of sheep who use their stuff?
               | 
               | Would Google be making the world shit if all its cloud
               | services had only a few dozen thousand users?
               | 
               | What's forcing you to interact with Google isn't Google,
               | but Google users.
        
               | jay_kyburz wrote:
               | How is your company forcing you to use gmail any worse
               | than your company forcing you to use outlook? Is it your
               | company that is making the world shit, or google.
        
               | throwaway48476 wrote:
               | The only thing that can stop a monopoly is a bigger
               | monopoly, the government.
        
               | carlosjobim wrote:
               | You're behind with the times, words have new meanings
               | 
               | Organizations I don't like = Monopoly!
               | 
               | Organizations I like = ...
        
             | jordanb wrote:
             | Not even "back in the day". Youtube and Gsuite constantly
             | break on firefox.
        
             | kazinator wrote:
             | You don't own the roads in Detroit; the government owns
             | most of them.
             | 
             | Gmail is not a government service. Google is free to make
             | that work with only one browser, if they want.
             | 
             | You can't assert that Google must make Gmail work with any
             | browser whatsoever, because that means supporting someone
             | using Windows 95 with Internet Explorer 5.5.
        
               | marricks wrote:
               | I'm not going to waste my time explaining to you what a
               | metaphor is, but I will say this Firefox was the dominant
               | player in the 00's 2010's when they did this, not the 2%
               | market share it is now.
        
           | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
           | I don't work for Google and genuinely think it's better for
           | users. It's always bugged me that ad blockers request
           | arbitrary read write permissions for all websites I visit,
           | and it didn't seem like that was ever going to change until
           | Chrome forced the issue.
        
             | chihuahua wrote:
             | It's not ideal, but if that's what it takes to block ads as
             | well as uBlock Origin does, then that's a price I'm willing
             | to pay.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | My content blocker on Safari blocks all the same ads as
               | ublock origin in Chrome, with no supposedly no risk of
               | outbound data.
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | At the platform level, you have to have a security model,
               | and sometimes it will conflict with functionality. I'm
               | sure there's a lot of potentially interesting browser
               | extensions you could build with the ability to read and
               | write arbitrary files, but Chrome has decided (much less
               | controversially) that the sandbox is key to their
               | security model and extensions can't ask to escape it.
               | 
               | If manifest V3 ad blockers were nonfunctional to the
               | point of being broken, I'd be more concerned, but in my
               | experience they're perfectly OK.
        
               | creato wrote:
               | uBO Lite exists and I can't see any visible difference in
               | how well it works. So, it's not a price you _need_ to pay
               | at all.
        
               | kolanos wrote:
               | In my testing, UBO Lite is not working as well on
               | YouTube. It blocks the ad, but you still have to skip it.
               | Original UBO didn't require this.
        
               | jay_kyburz wrote:
               | Yea but, I think its a bit misplaced to be angry at
               | Google for this. Surely its the content creators that
               | place the ads in their content to blame for this.
               | 
               | I don't understand why they ads are not spliced into the
               | stream. It would be undetectable by extensions at all.
        
               | Yeul wrote:
               | Because ads are auctioned in nanoseconds. This isn't the
               | newspaper were everyone saw the same as which was vetted
               | by the editors. You are seeing different ads than your
               | neighbour. Everything is automated to cost as little
               | money as possible.
        
               | IncreasePosts wrote:
               | Anyone with a mildly popular extension that has
               | read/write * would be offered lots of money to sell it
               | to, usually, scammers or hackers.
               | 
               | Maybe you're willing to pay the price, but that doesn't
               | mean it was what's best for the ecosystem.
        
             | homebrewer wrote:
             | It really isn't. They can spend some of their billions of
             | revenue to review changes when popular extensions are
             | updated, just like Mozilla does. Every uBO update is vetted
             | by Mozilla and is only then pushed out to users. But doing
             | this is not in Google's interest at all.
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | Mozilla's guidance on this
               | (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tips-assessing-
               | safety-e...) is that only some extensions are manually
               | reviewed and you shouldn't trust this as a guarantee of
               | safety if you don't trust the developer who owns the
               | extension.
        
             | ndiddy wrote:
             | Read/write permissions are necessary to effectively block
             | ads. There's a lot of sites that will throw up a screen
             | saying "please turn off your adblocker" and refuse to let
             | you view the page if they detect ads aren't being loaded.
             | Read/write permissions allows uBlock Origin to inject
             | scripts into the page to fool the anti-adblock scripts into
             | thinking that ads are being served.
        
             | harrall wrote:
             | If I'm going to be the devil's advocate, it's probably
             | better for performance.
             | 
             | When I maintained a hook-based plugin system, I learned
             | that many programmers do not know data structures or
             | algorithms and would slow down the whole software by
             | writing plugins that looked up rules using extremely slow
             | ways extremely often. And if users wanted to complain about
             | the software being slow, they would always blame me first.
             | 
             | But when I replaced it with rule lists, now I was in
             | control and could implement fast data structures.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | It's my computer. I will run code that I choose and
             | disallow code that I choose. If I choose to run code that
             | blocks your code, that's my prerogative. Whether that's a
             | full blown right is another topic.
             | 
             | You're just pissed because I've chosen to block _your_ code
             | in software _you_ created. Next, you 'll tell me I have to
             | watch _your_ programming on a TV I bought with _your_ code
             | on it.
             | 
             | The idea that we have to do anything that evilCorp wants us
             | to do is just insane that people have come to the point of
             | accepting that.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | > Chrome is their project, they should be free to do whatever
           | they want with it.
           | 
           | They shouldn't be free to use all the money in the world to
           | corner a market, rope in the conpetition and then abuse that
           | position.
           | 
           | It only works because nobody can touch them, it's otherwise
           | straight illegal in most markets.
        
         | blockme69 wrote:
         | Well hopefully Google will pay the price for their greed soon
         | enough.
         | 
         | https://arstechnica.com/google/2025/03/doj-google-must-sell-...
        
           | internetter wrote:
           | They won't under the trump admin
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | The trump admin got this ball rolling way back in 2017.
        
               | internetter wrote:
               | Just like the TikTok ban they also got the ball rolling
               | on?
        
               | KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
               | The TikTok ban is still happening, some trump donator
               | will end up owning majority of tiktok.
        
               | HideousKojima wrote:
               | Funny you should mention that:
               | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/mar/10/trump-
               | tik...
               | 
               | Yes, Tik Tok still needs to divest ownership or be banned
               | in the US
        
               | knowitnone wrote:
               | just pay $10 million to have a sit with him and all your
               | troubles disappear
        
               | anjel wrote:
               | Be sure to wear your 100k Trump-Watch for the sitdown
               | outside of the Pork Store.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | It depends on whether Google bends the knee, as Amazon and
             | Facebook have done.
        
               | leeoniya wrote:
               | Gulf of America would like a word...
        
             | zzbzq wrote:
             | Trump's DoJ just submitted basically the same remedy
             | proposal last Friday, it's on
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >article dated Mar 10, 2025
        
           | winwang wrote:
           | As much as I dislike their Chrome practices, I am rather
           | against the idea of forcing them to sell Chrome.
           | 
           | For one, they simply have had a better product, at least in
           | the past. Part of their large monopoly is due to just being
           | better outright for a large portion of users (presumably).
           | Are we to punish making overly-good products?
           | 
           | For another, sell to whom? And why would they be a good
           | steward?
           | 
           | And yet another, there's literally Chromium, which other
           | browsers (built by other corps) use, e.g. Edge, Brave, etc.
           | 
           | Did Google have to open Chromium? No.
           | 
           | Disclaimer: I hold these opinions weakly and would love to
           | learn more about why they might be ill-premised.
        
         | arwhatever wrote:
         | "Where there's a will, there's a way."
        
         | ehecatl42 wrote:
         | Emacs Web Wowser for the most part, for me, and it basically
         | works... except when it fucking does not.
         | 
         | The modern web, as we all know, is all kinds of shit. Anybody
         | here compile Firefox recently?
        
           | 6SixTy wrote:
           | Gentoo user here: all the time. Worst part is that Firefox
           | depends on NodeJS which takes a good day to compile on my
           | 2c/4t 3250U.
        
             | forty wrote:
             | So actually even Firefox depends on V8...
        
               | fp64 wrote:
               | What's wrong with V8? Had only pleasant interactions with
               | it so far (maybe compiling takes long, can't tell, whole
               | webkit is a nightmare in that regard)
        
               | forty wrote:
               | Oh it's perfectly fine, but Firefox was kind of the only
               | illusion that the web does not rely on a single
               | implementation, so discovering that even that depends on
               | V8 is kind of funny :)
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | The NodeJS dependency is purely for running some tests. You
             | shouldn't need it to actually build Firefox.
        
               | mid-kid wrote:
               | If that was the case I'm sure someone would've turned it
               | into a test-only dependency in gentoo.
        
           | voytec wrote:
           | Why would you? Firefox is a spyware nowadays.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >Nobody could have possibly seen it coming that Google would
         | abuse its market position to their own benefit...
         | 
         | Doesn't Safari have the same restriction, also ostensibly for
         | "security/privacy" reasons? The only difference is that Apple
         | doesn't have a web advertising presence, so you can't make the
         | accusation that they're "abuse its market position to their own
         | benefit".
        
           | AstralSerenity wrote:
           | Firefox and its derivatives remain the only true alternative
           | at this point.
        
             | fyrabanks wrote:
             | You can still install uBlock Origin in Brave, assuming you
             | don't mind the crypto stuff and how they pay it out (or,
             | rather don't) to site owners. Even Firefox feels a little
             | weird now with the advent of Mozilla Advertising.
             | 
             | Very much a lesser of all evils situation.
        
               | AstralSerenity wrote:
               | You can, but ultimately Brave is downstream of Chrome and
               | their stated intention of supporting Manifest V2 "for as
               | long as [they're] able" doesn't inspire as much
               | confidence.
               | 
               | Firefox is also the only open alternative to Chromium at
               | the moment, so I prefer to endorse it instead.
        
               | ray023 wrote:
               | Brave has its own Rust based Adblocker BUILD IN. That is
               | at the very core of the Browser, uses the exact same
               | filter lists uBlock Origin and all the other use. There
               | is no point in using uBlock origin in Brave at all. I
               | have been using Brave for years now and the adblocker
               | pretty much like uBlock. Never looked back. I think it
               | even inspired by uBlock but the fact they can even
               | integrate it tighter with Chromium makes more then than
               | an extension written in JS.
        
               | fabrice_d wrote:
               | uBlock Origin does a bit more than applying community
               | maintained filter lists though. I regularly use its
               | capability to add custom filters for instance. Is that
               | also possible in Brave?
        
               | jemmyw wrote:
               | Yes
        
               | WD-42 wrote:
               | For now. We'll see how long it takes for them to
               | integrate their Brave Bucks for either enabling the
               | blocker or whitelisting ads.
        
               | homebrewer wrote:
               | > install uBlock Origin in Brave
               | 
               | There's no need to do it, their built-in adblocker
               | supports the same rule lists.
               | 
               | https://github.com/brave/adblock-rust
        
               | tmtvl wrote:
               | But does it support blocking JavaScript, large media
               | elements, social widgets, and fonts?
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | I would like to know this, too. It does not seem to be on
               | the list of features unless they are referring to it via
               | "cosmetic filtering". I often block particular elements
               | on websites.
        
               | jemmyw wrote:
               | You can block elements, there's an option on the right
               | click context menu to do it visually.
        
               | pnw wrote:
               | Yes, you can block elements directly from the context
               | menu. I use it all the time on Reddit.
               | 
               | There's also built in blocking under
               | brave://settings/shields for Javascript and social
               | features.
               | 
               | It doesn't have a specific feature to block fonts AFAIK
               | but it does have fingerprint protection if that's your
               | concern.
        
               | antonok wrote:
               | Brave's adblocker supports the standard `$font` resource
               | type modifier on adblock rules as well.
        
               | tmtvl wrote:
               | What I specifically mean by 'large media elements' is
               | that I currently have the uBlock option active to 'Block
               | media elements larger than [50] KB'. (Where the 50 is a
               | spinner so I can increase or decrease the size if I
               | want.)
        
               | kibae wrote:
               | I switched to Brave last week after the whole Firefox
               | fiasco. I installed uBlock Origin after there were some
               | ads that got through.
               | 
               | e.g. on DuckDuckGo.
        
               | antonok wrote:
               | There is an Aggressive setting for Brave Shields, which
               | you can set either per-site in the Shields menu from the
               | URL bar, or globally in brave://settings/shields - that
               | should take care of SERP ads and other first-party
               | placements.
        
               | ClikeX wrote:
               | Luckily, Firefox has several forks that strip that
               | telemetry.
        
               | novemp wrote:
               | Another day, another subtle insinuation that Brave is the
               | only Chrome fork anyone uses. Are you people being paid
               | to do this?
        
               | rockskon wrote:
               | Or maybe it's just popular? Recommend something else if
               | you don't like it rather than just insinuating crap about
               | people who do.
        
               | antonok wrote:
               | As I see it, Brave is the only Chromium-based browser
               | with a competitive Mv2-deprecation-resistant adblocker.
               | If adblocking is important to you - and it is, to many
               | people - then Brave literally is the only one worth
               | considering. Not to mention it is open source, unlike
               | most of the others.
               | 
               | (I work on Brave's adblocker, and FWIW the folks who work
               | for Brave are very open about their affiliation when
               | commenting about it online)
        
             | jhickok wrote:
             | Do you have thoughts about Kagi/Orion browser? I've been
             | using it for a bit now and I've been pleased with the ad
             | blocking capabilities and the ability to have ublock origin
             | on my iPhone and iPad. The browser definitely has scales
             | but it's usable for me at this point.
        
               | RamRodification wrote:
               | macOS only
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | It's easy to block ads on an entire system DNS level,
             | instead of using browser plugins.
        
               | h4x0rr wrote:
               | This way you're missing out on specific js patches for
               | sites with hard to block ads (like YouTube)
        
               | carlosjobim wrote:
               | That's a special case, which can be solved by buying
               | YouTube premium. For general ad-blocking, the DNS filters
               | work great.
        
               | paulryanrogers wrote:
               | What incentives does this enforce in the market?
               | Strangling smaller players and reinforcing the dominant
               | ones.
        
               | Yeul wrote:
               | How does that work on a smartphone?
        
             | bluescrn wrote:
             | How long will Mozilla be around for, though?
        
               | squarefoot wrote:
               | As long as Google pays them to remain alive to reinforce
               | the narrative that Chrome isn't a monopoly.
        
               | mrandish wrote:
               | If the Google, Pocket and other ad money dries up,
               | Mozilla the company may go away but the Firefox browser
               | itself will continue on because it's open source. As an
               | exclusively Firefox user for over 20 years, I suspect if
               | Mozilla the company dies, it will won't negatively impact
               | Firefox much, at least in any meaningful way. In fact,
               | the browser may be somewhat better off managed like the
               | Blender or MAME projects.
               | 
               | In the last five years or so Firefox has increasingly
               | introduced controversial changes that make it (IMHO) less
               | good, primarily around interface design. And, from what I
               | understand, Mozilla employs full-time UX designers who've
               | been driving much of that. Of course, with Firefox it's
               | still possible to modify, fix and restore all these
               | recent interface "improvements" with user CSS but it's a
               | constant annoyance to need to keep fixing it.
               | Fortunately, there's an active community effort around
               | restoring the Firefox interface and usability,
               | exemplified by the brilliant Lepton project
               | https://github.com/black7375/Firefox-UI-Fix/releases.
               | 
               | My perception just watching the evolution of Firefox from
               | the outside, is that it used to be a browser that
               | celebrated the ethos of "Have it Your Way." However,
               | Mozilla the company gets money to pay its executives and
               | employees (millions in the case of more than one recent
               | CEO) by actively driving users and eyeballs for Google,
               | Pocket and other advertisers. So the company is highly
               | incentivized to try myriad changes and redesigns to
               | increase appeal to "the masses" of browser users. Thus,
               | the UX keeps getting 'simplified' and 'de-cluttered' with
               | advanced functionality 'de-prioritized' and add-on
               | support demoted to second-class afterthought - instead of
               | the shining key feature advanced users value most.
               | Basically, in recent years the Firefox UX and end-user
               | features have been pushed by the substantial payroll
               | needs of the Mozilla company to become more like Chrome
               | and Safari instead of embracing its unique position as a
               | tool for power users who value advanced features,
               | customization and extension. And it was all for naught
               | because Firefox has continued to lose market share while
               | ignoring (and even actively alienating) its niche
               | community of fanatically devoted power users.
        
               | Miraste wrote:
               | Do you think the open source community is capable of
               | maintaining Firefox without Mozilla? I find that
               | doubtful. Even if they did, without Mozilla, Cloudflare
               | and friends would start trying to kill Firefox like they
               | do to other independent browsers.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | And ublock origin lite works just fine for me
        
             | kolanos wrote:
             | Not working as well on YouTube. The ad is blocked, but you
             | still need to skip it. You didn't need to do this with UBO.
        
               | gorhill wrote:
               | It's working fine on Youtube in Optimal mode. If you
               | still have issues, you will have to go through self-
               | diagnosing steps[1] to rule out all the myriad other ways
               | you could suffer such issues -- most commonly another
               | extension is interfering negatively.
               | 
               | [1] https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uAssets/issues/27415
        
               | smallerfish wrote:
               | Click on the extension icon and move the slider to the
               | right.
        
               | nikcub wrote:
               | uBO being so good at blocking YouTube ads to the point
               | where you didn't need to signup for Premium may have been
               | the tipping point for Google that ended manifest V2.
        
               | gerash wrote:
               | Is all this "privacy" and "monopoly" outrage about a loud
               | group of people wanting to watch YouTube videos without
               | watching ads or paying a dime?
               | 
               | Do they also get outraged when Costco "abuses its
               | monopoly" as soon as they stop providing free samples or
               | cheap hotdogs?
        
             | dowager_dan99 wrote:
             | it's a good base level, but misses dynamic updates, custom
             | rules and interactive element picker/blocker.
        
           | EA-3167 wrote:
           | That's a BIG difference though, and makes the claim about
           | security more believable, especially since it isn't a sole
           | restriction. There are also a number of ad blockers available
           | for Safari, although personally I'll stick with Firefox
           | either way.
           | 
           | Google is an ad company restriction use of the primary ad-
           | blocker on its browser, it's blatant.
        
           | zamalek wrote:
           | This is coming from an Apple antagonist, but don't the Apple
           | OSs have adblocking at a system level (implying Safari)? This
           | does vindicate Apple (but doesn't help in the other
           | legitimate scenarios that this API is needed, which I have
           | been told do exist).
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | > but don't the Apple OSs have adblocking at a system level
             | (implying Safari)?
             | 
             | No, content blockers are specific to Safari. Third party
             | apps can show ads just fine.
        
               | carlosjobim wrote:
               | It's easy to install system level ad-blocking in MacOS
               | and iOS.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | It's time for a Google breakup from the DOJ / FTC.
           | 
           | They've gone well beyond what Microsoft did in the 2000s.
           | 
           | Google owns so many panes of glass and funnels them all
           | through its search and advertising funnel. They've distorted
           | how the web (and mobile) work to accomplish this massive
           | market distortion.
           | 
           | Search, Ads, and Android should be broken up into separate
           | units. Chrome shouldn't be placed with any of those units.
           | 
           | While we're cutting, YouTube should be its own entity and
           | stand on its own legs too.
           | 
           | Apple, Amazon, and Meta need the same scrutiny. Grocery
           | stores and primary care doctors should not be movie studios
           | and core internet infrastructure. Especially when those units
           | are wholly subsidized by other unrelated business units, and
           | their under pricing the market is used to strangle out the
           | incumbents and buy them up on the cheap.
        
             | klardotsh wrote:
             | Well, this country (the US) decided in November to go the
             | exact opposite direction of having a government capable of,
             | let alone willing to, pursuing litigation like this, so I
             | hope we enjoy this digital feudalism only expanding, never
             | receding, in the coming years.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Well, this country (the US) decided in November to go
               | the exact opposite direction of having a government
               | capable of, let alone willing to, pursuing litigation
               | like this
               | 
               | No? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43299886
        
               | klardotsh wrote:
               | Okay, I'll retract my remarks when the new formation of
               | the FTC actually goes after a tech giant. And frankly, I
               | have doubt any DOJ filings of this type won't get
               | repealed by force from above in short order. This is a
               | case that was mostly handled by the prior DOJ, which is
               | gone now, replaced by new management.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | > replaced by new management.
               | 
               | New management is aligned with breaking up big tech.
               | 
               | Founders Fund (Thiel), A16Z (Andressen [0], Horowitz),
               | and YC (Gary Tan) have all been lobbying for some form of
               | big tech breakup because it sucks up capital+oxygen
               | needed for startups they funded to exit at respectable
               | valuations.
               | 
               | Also, Andressen's Netscape was screwed over by Microsoft,
               | so he has a grudge against large players.
               | 
               | [0] - https://www.businessinsider.com/andreessen-more-
               | tech-compani...
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | Breaking up big tech would oxygenate the entire tech
               | sector.
               | 
               | Startups would be able to grow larger. There would be
               | less threat from big tech coming in to eat your market,
               | and M&A wouldn't be the preferred exit strategy.
               | 
               | Tech talent would be able to get paid more without big
               | tech setting wages and orchestrating coordinated layoffs.
               | More successful startups = more money for venture and
               | labor capital. Right now that money just goes to
               | institutional shareholders which are not the innovation
               | drivers of the economy.
               | 
               | Startups will actually get to compete for markets rather
               | than having them won and subsidized by unrelated business
               | units at the big tech titans. The solutions delivered
               | will fit the market needs much better.
               | 
               | Even big tech itself might fetch a higher valuation and
               | be greater than the sum of its parts. So much of big tech
               | is inefficient, untethered from market realities (eg.
               | Alexa), and a waste of talent and human capital on dead
               | end projects. Having Jeff Bezos "pay whatever it takes"
               | to acquire the rights to "007" is a sign of how bloated
               | these market distorting companies have become.
               | 
               | This needs to happen and is long overdue.
        
           | Fluorescence wrote:
           | People scratch their heads about how "just a default setting"
           | can be worth an annual $20 billion payment from Google. It
           | makes more sense if it's actually for a raft of wildly
           | illegal under-the-table measures this.
           | 
           | Imagine what it would cost Google's bottom line if Apple was
           | truly user-focused and enabled ad-blocking on desktop, mobile
           | and embedded safari views by default. Someone do the napkin
           | math please!
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | This conspiracy theory doesn't make sense because safari's
             | content blockers (ie. the nerfed version of adblock) block
             | most ads just fine, especially from google ads. The only
             | ads that get through are first party ads (eg. youtube), but
             | as of a few years ago adblockers could block those as well,
             | so it's a moot point.
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | Yup.
               | 
               | I understand that nerfing adblocking is definitely a big
               | draw for Google, but Apple went the ManifestV3 route many
               | years before, specifically to increase extension
               | performance and privacy.
               | 
               | Back then there was a big uproar too, but mostly because
               | Safari extension developers charged for a new version
               | because they had to rewrite the entire thing.
        
               | TechBro8615 wrote:
               | Safari content blockers are not enabled in embedded Web
               | Views.
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | Neither is uBlock Origin.
        
               | connicpu wrote:
               | I get uBlock origin whenever apps open a browser view
               | that uses my default android browser (Firefox) e.g. when
               | I click links in the reddit app.
        
               | basisword wrote:
               | Safari content blockers are awful compared to UBlock and
               | I'm a Safari user. Not only does YouTube either get
               | through or cause weird issues, YouTube now blocks you
               | until you completely disable the extension. Content
               | blockers often block cookie banners too which can often
               | result in broken functionality - a nightmare when you're
               | trying to buy tickets to something and have to "reload
               | without blockers" for the website to work.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Not only does YouTube either get through or cause weird
               | issues, YouTube now blocks you until you completely
               | disable the extension
               | 
               | Works fine on my machine. You might need to update your
               | filter lists or try another content blocker app.
               | 
               | >Content blockers often block cookie banners too which
               | can often result in broken functionality - a nightmare
               | when you're trying to buy tickets to something and have
               | to "reload without blockers" for the website to work.
               | 
               | So don't enable the filter lists that try to block cookie
               | banners?
        
               | epiecs wrote:
               | Can you recommend a blocker? I have one (adblock pro),
               | but I cant seem to find where to update the lists and
               | sometimes YT does weird things :)
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-adblock-
               | privacy/id1047...
               | 
               | There's also a new extension that was posted on hn a few
               | weeks that's free and claims to have scriptlets to block
               | youtube ads as well:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43204406#43208085
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Bypass the YT website entirely.
               | 
               | You can perform video search through DuckDuckGo,
               | Invidious, or Piped.
               | 
               | The latter two are often blocked themselves, copy the
               | video URL and feed to mpv to play through your preferred
               | video player on the command-line:
               | 
               | <https://mpv.io/>
        
               | derkster wrote:
               | YouTube has been playing a cat and mouse game, disabling
               | some accounts until disabled, randomly re-enabling them.
               | I personally think it's so when people talk about issues
               | like this - people say "Well, it's been ok on my end".
               | But it's definitely some kind of A/B testing.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | Oh absolutely. YouTube will 100% try new ad blocking
               | technology for only a specific strata.
        
               | igilism wrote:
               | What blocker do you use? I don't have these problems with
               | AdGuard in Safari
        
               | dbtc wrote:
               | Me too, but shhh.
        
               | basisword wrote:
               | I've used Wipr for a long time. And Wipr 2. Will checkout
               | AdGuard.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | 1Blocker also gives me a good YouTube experience.
        
               | jnathsf wrote:
               | Suggest using a service like NextDNS or Pi-hole for DYI
               | ad blocking at the DNS/network level. I started with pi-
               | hole but the hassle of updates and most importantly not
               | having it available outside of my home network pushed me
               | to a service like NextDNS which works on any network (5G,
               | work, etc)
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | If you think manifest v3's adblocking is bad, DNS-based
               | adblockers (eg. NextDNS or Pi-hole) is even worse. It
               | can't do any filtering based on urls or elements, so any
               | first party ads will be able to get through.
        
               | nikcub wrote:
               | to get any actual work done with DNS based blocking (ie.
               | visiting Google ads, or their other dashboards) you
               | quickly have to start whitelisting a ton of sites, which
               | applies everywhere.
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | If I go to buy something, I switch off ad blocking on
               | that page, at the very least, on the checkout page. Ads
               | can even be actually relevant there.
               | 
               | If the page is too ad-ridden to tolerate, I may consider
               | to just close that page, and go search for other options.
               | 
               | I use Firefox + uBlock Origin, because going to the wide
               | commercial internet without some form of ad blocking is
               | like going out without an umbrella when it's raining
               | heavily.
        
               | neuralRiot wrote:
               | If I go buy something and it requires me to disable my
               | adblocker or my VPN I just look for another place to buy.
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | Ad networks are a high traffic way to spread malware. I
               | would never recommend disabling a blocker, especially on
               | commerce sites.
        
               | portpecos wrote:
               | >I use Firefox + uBlock Origin
               | 
               | Wasn't Mozilla accused of selling data they collected
               | from Firefox users?
               | 
               | Correct me if I'm wrong.
        
               | derkades wrote:
               | Even with all the drama Firefox is still an excellent
               | browser, definitely better for privacy and uBlock than
               | Chrome.
        
               | MyOutfitIsVague wrote:
               | They removed wording in their FAQ saying that they
               | wouldn't sell data. It's a subtle distinction, and may or
               | may not make a difference depending on your perspective.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | For me the element blockers are the most important of
               | all. It's not just about blocking ads. It's about making
               | websites more usable. Ads are only one of those
               | detrimental points. Many websites bombard you with big
               | photos of their articles. I block all that with custom
               | blocklists so the end result is a lot more like here at
               | hacker news.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | If you're talking about element blocking, that's still
               | doable in manifest v3 with injected css elements. That's
               | how it was done in manifest v2.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Is it? I didn't realise. I always use Firefox anyway. So
               | which part isn't possible now? JavaScript injection?
               | 
               | Ps changed the term to avoid confusion, thanks!
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >So which part isn't possible now?
               | 
               | The webRequestBlocking api, which allows the extension to
               | inspect all request/responses in real time and act on
               | them. With manifest v3 the extension can only supply a
               | list of expressions to block, and the expressions that
               | can be used is very limited.
        
             | jonas21 wrote:
             | It's a revenue share deal where Google pays Apple 36% of
             | the search revenue they get from Safari users [1].
             | 
             | In other words, Google pays Apple ~$20B per year to be
             | default search engine because they make ~$53B in revenue
             | from those searches. This is profitable for both Apple and
             | Google -- no "wildly illegal under-the-table measures"
             | required.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/14/apple-gets-36percent-
             | of-goog...
        
               | 1oooqooq wrote:
               | ah the advertising ecosystem.
               | 
               | even when an outsider tries to think of the nastiest
               | scam, an insider shows up to explain the boring day to
               | day is already worse.
        
           | bearjaws wrote:
           | Alright? Split iOS off from Apple, then split Apple Music off
           | too?
           | 
           | I hate these arguments where people point to some other
           | shitty thing a company is doing as some sort of gotcha.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >Alright? Split iOS off from Apple, then split Apple Music
             | off too?
             | 
             | Windows is split off from Lenovo/Dell. How's that working
             | out for the Windows OS, or the Edge browser?
        
               | bearjaws wrote:
               | Largest OS share in the market? Seems to be working out
               | pretty good?
               | 
               | Edge is a perfectly good browser now? Probably should be
               | its own company too if we are splitting Chrome off from
               | Google.
               | 
               | I will tell you that we should split these companies into
               | 100 parts if thats what you are asking.
               | 
               | Imagine if Apple licensed its chips out in competition
               | with Qualcomm...
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | Apple is totally an advertising company. Have you missed the
           | part about their stalling phone, tablet and laptop revenues,
           | that they hope to compensate with "services" revenue, i.e.
           | App Store 30% racketeering and App Store search ads?
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >Apple is totally an advertising company. Have you missed
             | the part about [...]
             | 
             | Have you missed the part of my comment of my comment where
             | I specifically mentioned "web advertising presence"? That's
             | relevant, because ublock would only work on web ads. It
             | can't block ads in the app store, or any other app (eg.
             | spotify).
        
               | fmajid wrote:
               | Apple also serves ads and trackers on the web, not just
               | in-app or on the App Store. Here are the relevant built-
               | in uBlock Origin filter rules:
               | 
               | https://github.com/search?q=repo%3AuBlockOrigin%2FuAssets
               | +ap...
               | 
               | Thus they also clearly have an incentive to sabotage uBO.
               | It may be a much smaller piece of their revenue than at
               | Google, but it is a huge proportion of their revenue
               | growth. Don't believe Apple's marketing about their
               | caring for privacy, belied by their actions.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Here are the relevant built-in uBlock Origin filter
               | rules:
               | 
               | Can you link to a specific rule that shows Apple has web
               | ads? The search results you linked either removeparam
               | filters (which I guess is "tracking", but probably the
               | most benign kind), malware sites that contain
               | "apple.com", or analytics domains that seemingly belong
               | to apple. Moreover there's no evidence that Safari's
               | content blocker restrictions make a difference here. The
               | domains are trivially blocked so it's unclear how apple
               | is materially gaining from their nerfed adblock.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | Ads that apple serves (outside of marketing pages on
               | apple.com) are ads that displayed on ad supported ads.
               | uBO won't help you there. Luckily, every Apple device
               | comes with an AdBlock for those ads - airplane mode.
        
           | F7F7F7 wrote:
           | Whataboutism is so lazy.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | It's not whataboutism. If the claim is that google's
             | actions with manifest v3 is "abusing its market position to
             | their own benefit", but Apple did the same thing when it
             | didn't stand to benefit from it, then it severely
             | undermines that claim.
             | 
             | Sure, it doesn't rule out google was secretly intending on
             | doing it, only internal memos or whatever can prove that
             | definitively. But at the same time, to immediately conclude
             | that google was "abusing its market position", you would
             | have to be maximally uncharitable to google. That's a sad
             | way to see the world. Take for instance, the flak that
             | google got for banning third party cookies. If this is done
             | by anyone else (eg. Firefox), this would be seen as a good
             | thing. However, cynics have opposed this on the basis that
             | such change would disadvantage third party ad networks more
             | than google, thus google was "abusing its market position
             | to their own benefit" and therefore the change was bad.
        
               | derkster wrote:
               | You talk about Google as if it's a person. You should
               | take a step back and think to yourself why the changes
               | were made to Manifest V3 that broke backwards
               | compatibility, weakening ability to ad-blocking. Rule set
               | based modification is one of the first features I'd think
               | of when developing a systems of extensibility in browser,
               | and they removed it.
               | 
               | The reasoning is obvious, and "plausible deniability" is
               | not enough to give Google charity. The more difficult you
               | make it to block ads, the more impressions, and the more
               | money made. Yet you believe people should be "charitable"
               | to the same company that can't hire the manpower to
               | defend their own users against bad faith DCMA takedown
               | notices. Because they ran the analysis, and it wasn't
               | worth the cost.
               | 
               | Best case scenario, Chromium loses market share,
               | implements the parts removed from V2, Google likely kicks
               | the can down the road to Manifest V4.
               | 
               | There's no reason to believe companies deserve
               | charitability. Companies are systems designed to extract
               | maximum value, and when the world around that system
               | changes, the system adjusts itself. It's not the systems
               | fault for trying to get more value, it's our fault for
               | letting them.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | I don't think those two can be compared at all. Safari
               | didn't have proper plugin support at all, doesn't matter
               | ad-blocking or not. Rich plugin ecosystem was one of the
               | Chrome's selling point.
        
         | voytec wrote:
         | > It was never about improving peoples web experience.
         | 
         | I kinda appreciate that you still apply some benefit of the
         | doubt.
        
         | yard2010 wrote:
         | It's funny how this behavior resembles the Chinese Party.
        
           | labster wrote:
           | The CCP is much better organized with its "Do nothing. Win."
           | strategy. If Trump did nothing as well as they do, America
           | would still be a superpower.
        
         | lo_zamoyski wrote:
         | I'm surprised anyone expected anything different. Why would an
         | ad company support something that assaults its main source of
         | profit?
        
         | johnsillings wrote:
         | > I migrated off Chrome as soon as this BS story about
         | improving privacy
         | 
         | What are you using instead?
        
         | andrei_says_ wrote:
         | It is the gaslighting that is so annoying and insulting. An
         | entity of such power and reach resorting to manipulation is
         | disconcerting.
         | 
         | Everyone will call them on it. Why not be straight with their
         | intentions?
         | 
         | An advertising company optimizing their technology to better
         | support their business while improving security.
        
           | justmarc wrote:
           | Improving the security of their income stream :)
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | Please don't forget the part developers played in this by
         | enabling Chrome/Google to become so very dominant.
        
         | spankalee wrote:
         | There was a time in Chrome when it didn't support extensions at
         | all. If Google had release an extension API like manifest v3
         | then, would that have been abuse of market position?
         | 
         | The reason why Chrome waited for so long to add extensions was
         | the danger they posed to users. I was at Google when Sergey
         | often worried about what extensions would do to non technical
         | and older users who get tricked into installing them, then I
         | saw first hand that danger with my own grandparents. They had
         | extensions intercepting every network request, redirecting
         | certain sites to fake sites, and injecting code into pages. It
         | was horrifying, and they were lucky that they didn't have
         | significant money or identity theft.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | It wouldn't have been a bait and switch then.
        
             | spankalee wrote:
             | So it's impossible for a company to make a mistake and
             | rectify it? If they settle on the same approach as their
             | major competitor, it's bait and switch?
        
               | dowager_dan99 wrote:
               | it seems overly charitable to give Google, THE
               | advertising company, the benefit of the doubt here when
               | the biggest impact is it will now show way more
               | advertising.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | If it's really that big of a problem this can be addressed by
           | locking extensions by default and hiding the on switch where
           | casual users won't look. But come on, this is obviously a
           | pretext. You expect people to believe that the most prolific
           | adertising and surveilance company in history is crippling
           | the ability to block ads and trackers for altruistic
           | reasons?!
        
             | spankalee wrote:
             | It's not "obviously" a pretext. I don't think that the
             | change in ad revenue _to Google_ is going to be significant
             | between v2 and v3 ad blockers. It might be to ad networks
             | and sites that employ significant ad blocker counter
             | measures though.
             | 
             | And it's not "altruistic" - it's because eval() and
             | webRequestBlocking are bad for security and performance, so
             | they're bad for a lot of users. Users who will switch to
             | Safari or another browser without that extension API,
             | because the browser is faster or didn't exfiltrate their
             | banking credentials.
        
               | Yeul wrote:
               | Yeah right blocking ads and trackers helps performance.
        
         | yanis_t wrote:
         | A company optimises for profit. Real shocker.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | People's web experience is in degradation for long time.
         | 
         | No point using 99% of the web due to the hostile, fraudolent,
         | abusive approaches on top of the hollow (yeh, very very gentle
         | world for the thing what it is) content. No point searching for
         | advice, products, job, as crap is poured at you while your
         | actions are registered, your profile is sold, just to pour
         | dedicated crap on you by the highest bidder.
         | 
         | I have mail and 5 (7 with weather) pages I check regularly, and
         | that's it. That's my online life. More like a hermit goes into
         | town for tools and cans kind of digital solitary. Clicking on
         | links only after reconsidering five times, if I am really
         | interested in the possible content. Mostly here. So, so far
         | away from the extremely curious me 20 or so years ago spending
         | hours to the limit of my thirst and bladder, navigating all
         | that is out there.
         | 
         | It is very sad what humanity made out of the Internet. It does
         | not even hurt anymore. It is numb blob where the feeling about
         | the rich common knowledge source this was and could have been
         | should be.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | I don't think killing actual, effective ad-blocking was the
         | sole motivation of moving to Manifest V3, but it was certainly
         | a nice side effect that was hard to resist.
        
         | spearman wrote:
         | Pretty sure they do rank sites based on performance:
         | https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/page-ex...
        
       | blankx32 wrote:
       | Goodbye Chrome, good night
        
       | lifeisgood99 wrote:
       | Chrome is no longer available on my machine. It hasn't been for
       | some years now but still.
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43262531 ( _" uBlock Origin
       | forcefully disabled by Chrome"_, 5 days ago, 204 comments)
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43099417 ( _" uBlock Origin
       | Has Been Disabled"_, 19 days ago, 40 comments)
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43299886 ( _" The DOJ still
       | wants Google to sell off Chrome"_, 2 days ago, 663 comments)
        
       | fpg69 wrote:
       | I am simply shocked-SHOCKED, I tell you-that the advertising
       | company's web browser does not let you block advertisements.
        
         | jonwinstanley wrote:
         | It was the pre-roll youtube ad that made me realise ublock was
         | dead :-(
        
           | dowager_dan99 wrote:
           | seeing your first YT ad in a decade is quite the shock!
        
           | seattle_spring wrote:
           | It is absolutely bonkers how many ads are in YouTube now.
           | Nearly unusable without an ad blocker.
        
         | nickelpro wrote:
         | You are still allowed and able to block advertisements with
         | extensions.
        
       | ivewonyoung wrote:
       | Does this mean it won't be able to get updates to extension
       | code(not block lists) anymore?
       | 
       | I am getting high CPU usage with uBO since yesterday but I do
       | have a lot of tabs so I was wondering if thats a bug that will
       | get fixed.
        
         | nickelpro wrote:
         | Switch to UBL, the manifest v3 successor to UBO, to continue to
         | get updates, the performance is better too.
        
       | stainablesteel wrote:
       | just another reason to break up the monopoly
        
         | desdenova wrote:
         | Chrome will now be sold to TotallyNotGoogle, we're saved.
        
           | stainablesteel wrote:
           | that's how it works, there are legal ramifications otherwise
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | I hope Mozilla realizes (and still cares) that they have a huge
       | opportunity here to be the power-browser where you can get
       | awesome extensions, unlike the locked-down and hobbled Chromium
       | ecosystem. I suspect they do realize this because they've been
       | really leaning into extensions recently, but over the years I've
       | worried that Mozilla's committment to Firefox isn't as serious as
       | I would like.
       | 
       | Regardless, I'd love to see this give FF a big bounce in the
       | stats. Something to reinforce that there are people out here that
       | really want manifest v2, badly enough to switch!
        
         | ToDougie wrote:
         | Firefox has some weird slowness with DNS that I have
         | troubleshot to death. I still use it for almost everything, but
         | sometimes I'll have an entire day of 30s page loading times.
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | Apologies if this is elementary, but have you tried turning
           | off DoH?
           | 
           | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/dns-over-https#w_off
        
             | edoceo wrote:
             | I put this setting in ages ago on my FF profile and haven't
             | seen DNS lag.
             | 
             | My biggest DNS lag was before I used PiHole and was relying
             | on my router, which upstream to 8.8.8.8. I've just assumed
             | that little thing was overloaded or that Comcast was just
             | having a "hiccup".
        
             | jamesgeck0 wrote:
             | I see glacial DNS resolution regularly when hitting the AWS
             | authorization page with DoH disabled on my company's VPN.
             | Resolves instantly in Chrome.
        
               | joecool1029 wrote:
               | This is almost certainly a fragmentation issue caused by
               | lower MTU and broken path MTU on the VPN. Drop the system
               | to 1280 to troubleshoot, if things work immediately
               | there's the culprit, raise it up til it doesn't or don't,
               | I keep my VPN's at 1280.
               | 
               | EDIT: I do not know why its an issue with firefox and not
               | chrome, it's likely QUIC fucking up since it cant
               | fragment and needs to fall back to TCP, chrome is
               | probably error handling this better... dropping the MTU
               | that low will make the fallback explicit:
               | https://blog.apnic.net/2019/03/04/a-quick-look-at-quic/
               | 
               | EDIT2: Could also try disabling QUIC, instructions here:
               | https://developers.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-
               | one/policies/ga...
        
           | Yeul wrote:
           | I wonder how much time not experiencing advertising on the
           | internet saves?
           | 
           | Whenever someone says how fast Chrome is I think about this.
        
           | guappa wrote:
           | Disable DNS over HTTPS I guess.
        
           | Underphil wrote:
           | Same here. Tends to be pretty inconsistent. DNS-over-HTTP(s)
           | definitely disabled. 30s is a lot more than I've experienced,
           | but there are times where it clearly struggles to look things
           | up.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Part of what the DOJ is seeking against Google would severely
         | impact Mozilla financially however, as they want to ban them
         | from paying to be the default search engine.
        
           | bad_user wrote:
           | Which is why Mozilla are getting desperate to diversify their
           | revenue.
        
             | Mailtemi wrote:
             | Mozilla diversifies by increasing the CEO's salary for
             | nothing.
             | 
             | Wiki: In 2020, after returning to the position of CEO,
             | Baker's salary was more than $3 million. In 2021, her
             | salary rose again to more than $5 million, and again to
             | nearly $7 million in 2022.
             | 
             | The new CEO brings computing for AI money bleed that almost
             | no one wants.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | I don't agree with Mozilla paying that huge CEO salary,
               | but...
               | 
               | Do you know Firefox's handy new offline translation
               | feature? That's AI a well. And Firefox is the only
               | browser that doesn't leak your web page when translating
               | it.
               | 
               | There are plenty of other uses for AI, such as describing
               | images without alt-text for the blind, or summarization.
               | I, for one, want AI in my browser, you can't really say
               | that "nobody wants it", when many people clearly do.
        
               | Mailtemi wrote:
               | Really? Fire the Rust Servo team and double the CEO's
               | salary in the same year? Almost the same money.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | I said I don't agree with them wasting that much money on
               | the CEO, maybe I wasn't clear (perhaps it's due to
               | English not being my first language).
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | You were clear. Mailtemi is just talking past the point
               | of your comment, rather than engage with it.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | What's the news on them getting into AI?
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | If only their goal would be to provide an excellent privacy
             | browser, instead of getting revenue :)
             | 
             | All they need is to accept donations that go strictly to
             | the browser and not to the latest blockchain/AI hysteria.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Name a project whose development costs as much as Firefox
               | and that survives from donations.
               | 
               | Many people want AI in their browser. And what does
               | Firefox have to do with crypto?
        
               | jordanb wrote:
               | > Name a project whose development costs as much as
               | Firefox and that survives from donations.
               | 
               | Wikipedia.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Wikimedia does not raise $200 million per year.
        
               | jordanb wrote:
               | You're right. They only raise $180 million a year.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fundraising_stati
               | sti...
               | 
               | Still feels like it aught to be enough to make a browser.
        
               | forgotpwd16 wrote:
               | Similar to Mozilla & Firefox, there isn't an exact
               | breakdown for Wikimedia expenditures to know the costs
               | associated with Wikipedia. For Firefox, it's often stated
               | its costs are ~200m but those are all expenses Mozilla
               | categorizes under software development. For Wikimedia,
               | within their operation expenses, ~3m were in hosting and
               | ~84m in salaries (related to programs). The salaries are
               | stated to be for multiple initiatives, among which
               | platform development is mentioned*.
               | 
               | *Although arguably the most important part of Wikipedia,
               | and their other collaborative projects, are the
               | _volunteers_ maintaining and contributing to it, rather
               | the developers.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | I think it absolutely would be great if a Wikipedia-like
               | model were viable, but Wikipedia is like the extreme high
               | watermark for that, and they get five billion visits a
               | month, which I think is an order of magnitude higher than
               | what Firefox has access to. Ramping up to Wikipedia scale
               | levels of donations would be a serious project and a
               | significant gamble.
               | 
               | Wikipedia has also been around as long as the internet
               | itself and its current fundraising drives are the
               | culmination of decades of momentum and cultivating a
               | perception of the compact that exists between them and
               | their users.
               | 
               | Also, I believe that even in the best of times Wikipedia
               | is raising about half as much as it costs to run Firefox.
               | 
               | There's probably important caveats that relate to
               | comparing software development projects with resources
               | and content, because I think the most successful
               | donation-driven examples are Wikipedia, NPR, and The
               | Guardian. And what they seem to have in common is
               | generating content to be consumed.
               | 
               | In terms of software development projects, to me the most
               | natural analogy is something like VLC, which does indeed
               | rely on donations and is orders of magnitudes smaller. Or
               | maybe the Tor project which does rely on donations, but I
               | think they're at the order of like 10 million or so,
               | which is certainly promising, but not a like for like
               | substitution for the revenue they get from Google.
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | > And what does Firefox have to do with crypto?
               | 
               | Firefox is all AI this year, but they've been all
               | blockchain when that was in fashion.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | > _they 've been all blockchain when that was in fashion_
               | 
               | They've never been "all blockchain", what are you talking
               | about?
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | Is the AI coming at a prohibitive cost? I'm not sure I
               | understand what is going to come of those bets, and I'm
               | not a fan of AI everything so I hope it's only used in
               | measured ways that are beneficial, but I certainly would
               | rather them continue innovating.
               | 
               | I don't think they did a whole lot with blockchain beyond
               | some very preliminary dabbling in decentralized web stuff
               | which if it could have gained traction I absolutely would
               | have supported but it certainly doesn't seem like it was
               | a significant drag on developer resources or finances so
               | far as I could tell.
               | 
               | And wouldn't that have to be the argument for any of this
               | to matter?
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | It depends if having the organization chasing the latest
               | fad as it changes yearly inspires you trust or the
               | opposite...
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | So you made this claim about the blockchain and I did a
               | little bit of Googling to learn more. And so far as I can
               | tell they barely did anything beyond some like papers and
               | very preliminary demo implementations of stuff like IPFS
               | and dabbling with Web3.
               | 
               | Those were very preliminary ventures and not anything
               | that commanded substantial developer resources, so I
               | don't know what you're talking about. And look. I
               | obviously disagree with people who claim that side bets
               | compromised Mozilla, but the arguments sort into
               | different tiers with some being understandable (issues
               | with adtech, CEO pay), some in the middle (the non profit
               | Mozilla Foundation is bloated!), some that are one step
               | up from utter nonsense because they're at least expressed
               | in coherent sentences but have little to no supporting
               | evidence or theory of cause and effect (e.g. "Mozilla
               | lost all its market share due to their side bets being
               | prohibitively expensive").
               | 
               | But we're at a point where apparently these arguments
               | have been seen and repeated so many times that there's a
               | new class of commenters who have been making the lowest
               | effort versions of these arguments that I've yet seen,
               | and are the least interested in anything like evidence or
               | logic or responsiveness to questions or anything that I
               | would associate with coherent thought. Which is where I
               | would put the blockchain argument.
        
               | randomNumber7 wrote:
               | Linux?
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Linux is massively funded by companies like IBM and Red
               | Hat.
               | 
               | The Linux Foundation receives over $15m in corporate
               | funding.
        
               | TheRealPomax wrote:
               | Note that $15 million is nowhere near enough to pay the
               | number of employees who work on Firefox. As a for-profit
               | (unlike the foundation), Mozilla the corporation has to
               | pay folks market rates, and if you're paying an employee
               | in the US, you're paying that same amount on top as
               | taxes, insurance, benefits, etc. etc. so $15 million gets
               | you a few dozen people at most. Mozilla employs a few
               | hundred. So you'll have to add a zero to that number
               | before it's in the same ballpark (e.g. wikipedia would be
               | a good example).
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | The Linux Foundation basically exists to pay Linus. Now
               | add the billions companies like Red Hat pay their
               | employees to work on Linux dev.
        
               | WD-42 wrote:
               | Thunderbird is doing pretty good. They actually have a
               | surplus in donations they have to get rid of. Yet Mozilla
               | abandoned it and refuses still to accept donation for
               | Firefox.
        
           | MYEUHD wrote:
           | That would be a good thing. If Firefox is funded by
           | donations, rather than by Google, it ensures there is no
           | enshittification in the future. And yes, donations can fund a
           | big project, as evidenced by Thunderbird and Ladybird.
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | I mostly agree, but I am slightly worried that it would
             | lead to slower progress in Firefox. As it stands, Google's
             | funding of Firefox is enough to hire a bunch of engineers
             | to make Firefox a pretty competitive browser.
        
             | bad_user wrote:
             | Nobody uses Ladybird, at this point it's vaporware. And
             | Thunderbird is still based on Firefox.
             | 
             | The development of Firefox costs around $200 million per
             | year. That's more than what Wikimedia can get from
             | donations, and Wikipedia is a website that everyone uses.
             | And you want to rely on donations from people that ad-block
             | YouTube instead of paying for Premium.
             | 
             | And let's say that it manages to bring those costs down to
             | $100 million per year or less and manages to get it from
             | donations (when pigs will fly) ... it still has to compete
             | with a Chrome whose estimated cost goes over $1 billion per
             | year.
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | > And you want to rely on donations from people that ad-
               | block YouTube instead of paying for Premium.
               | 
               | Does Google guarantee it won't spy on me if i pay for
               | Premium?
               | 
               | ... no, didn't think so.
               | 
               | Besides not everyone uses youtube to the point where
               | paying for it is worth it.
               | 
               | > The development of Firefox costs around $200 million
               | per year.
               | 
               | Does it? Or that's what the mozilla organization wastes
               | on harebrained initiatives overall?
               | 
               | > it still has to compete with a Chrome whose estimated
               | cost goes over $1 billion per year.
               | 
               | But that's to add features that benefit Google not the
               | Chrome users.
               | 
               | Plus Google has money from their ad quasi monopoly so
               | they can afford to be wasteful.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | YouTube is a 1st party service for Google, so you can't
               | ad-block their tracking. And you aren't ad-blocking
               | YouTube due to the spying, so don't be disingenuous.
               | 
               | Yes, it really costs that much.
               | 
               | Given Chrome's vast market share, I'm pretty sure its
               | users like it. And you know what? Most users won't mind
               | switching to uBlock Origin Lite, and the elephant in the
               | room is that "manifest v3" also increases security, with
               | Chrome being indeed the most secure browser.
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | > And you aren't ad-blocking YouTube due to the spying,
               | so don't be disingenuous.
               | 
               | I don't watch YouTube. If all those influencers want to
               | reach me, they should give me a written summary, I don't
               | have time to listen to talking heads for hours.
               | 
               | However, if I ever follow an youtube link, it will be ad
               | blocked because i run firefox with uBlock Origin, for as
               | long as uBlock Origin blocks youtube ads by default.
        
               | shkkmo wrote:
               | > Does it? Or that's what the mozilla organization wastes
               | on harebrained initiatives overall?
               | 
               | Mozilla Foundation spent 260 million on software
               | development in 2023.
               | https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/mozilla-
               | fdn-202...
               | 
               | That may include some software development on non-firefox
               | products though.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | >Does it? Or that's what the mozilla organization wastes
               | on harebrained initiatives overall?
               | 
               | Yes! They published their 990, and it's mostly software
               | development, but also stuff like legal and compliance and
               | marketing. I don't have the numbers off the top of my
               | head, but last time I checked, if you really want to make
               | this argument, I think it relates to the CEO pay and the
               | Mozilla Foundation and its advocacy, which are something
               | around the, you know, taken together something like 55
               | million or so. You can make the argument that
               | administration and operations as well as marketing and
               | legal and compliance are bloated in some sense, but then
               | you'd still have to make the case that there was a viable
               | path to reinvesting that into development in a way that
               | would change the tide when it comes to market share. But
               | I think that is a confused vision of how market share
               | works because the real drivers are Google's dominant
               | position in search and on Android in the ability to push
               | Chrome on Chromebooks.
               | 
               | Back when these narratives about Mosio's mismanagement
               | started, I just assumed that they were highly informed
               | people who knew what they were talking about. And maybe
               | they really were originally, but it seems to have
               | socialized a new generation of commenters into just
               | randomly speculating about things that completely fall
               | apart upon closer examination.
        
               | wussboy wrote:
               | I don't block ads on YouTube because I can't afford
               | Premium.
        
               | randomNumber7 wrote:
               | I do, but I would still block it if I could.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | You probably block ads on YouTube to get stuff for free.
               | I never said that you can't afford it.
               | 
               | (I'm using the royal you here, obviously, I don't know
               | you)
               | 
               | People rarely pay when there isn't scarcity. Wikimedia
               | can pull it off because it has billions of unique
               | visitors per month.
        
               | keybored wrote:
               | What's your point? I'm past the point of caring about
               | freeloading on/off Google of all companies.
               | 
               | I might care about the lesser cut that creators get. But
               | not YouTube.
        
               | drpossum wrote:
               | I think it's unfair to call Ladybird vaporware this
               | early. There's nothing suspicious about their development
               | schedule for the scope of the thing they're trying to
               | build.
               | 
               | I agree I don't think it should be in the alternative
               | browser discussion until they do produce something,
               | however.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | And also, I think there's a positive to say about Lady
               | Bird here, which is that in the event they succeed,
               | that's as much a narrative about an extraordinarily
               | talented and committed developer, And if they're able to
               | put forward a credible browser, it will be a soaring
               | achievement for them. Not necessarily something I would
               | expect as a kind of default status quo expectation.
               | 
               | I think if you get these alternative from the ground up
               | browsers, you get extremely limited things like Net Surf,
               | noble efforts that I respect, but not going against the
               | billions of dollars Google can throw into modern browser
               | development.
        
               | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
               | If it costs $200 million a year to develop Firefox, then
               | their management team is guilty of gross incompetence.
               | 
               | I am betting this is really paying for the crappy side
               | projects and HUGE pay for the Mozilla Foundation people
               | (just like all the BS spending the Wikimedia foundation
               | does) and has nothing to do with Firefox itself.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | Maintaining a fully compliant, secure, cross-platform web
               | browser that competes with the biggest companies on earth
               | absolutely is going to have costs like that.
               | 
               | I think Mozilla Foundation receives something like 5 to
               | 10%. I'm not against the argument that foundations can be
               | bloated and inefficient, but at this point, this anti
               | Mozilla narrative is completely out of control and almost
               | purely speculation driven.
        
               | photonthug wrote:
               | More charitably, it's driven by frustration more than
               | speculation. Browsers are old technology, and some people
               | think that maybe hurling huge amounts of money at stuff
               | like this is unreasonable because projects can/should be
               | "finished" at some point. Forever-development is very
               | often actively harmful, and if it's actually _necessary_
               | then it might be hiding problems in the wider ecosystem.
               | 
               | It's good that we have alternatives to chrome, but on the
               | other hand the alternatives are not winning, and they
               | prevent any chance of regulation (or having a reasonable
               | discussion about whether chrome sucks, as we see here).
               | There's a strong argument that mozilla IS google's
               | antitrust shield.
               | 
               | Also can we just take a minute to seriously try to
               | imagine the leader of the "Makefile foundation" receiving
               | $2.4M in compensation, and generally burning a lot more
               | money on dead-end "innovations" and then rebranding as
               | "OpenSource.. And Advertising". Make is 20 years older
               | than Mozilla, but does it look like the browser project
               | will be finished or moving in a great direction any time
               | soon while there's big opportunities for grift and graft?
               | 
               | Signed, a grateful but nevertheless annoyed and skeptical
               | firefox user
        
               | jjmarr wrote:
               | > Also can we just take a minute to seriously try to
               | imagine the leader of the "Makefile foundation" receiving
               | $2.4M in compensation, and generally burning a lot more
               | money on dead-end "innovations" and then rebranding as
               | "OpenSource.. And Advertising". Make is 20 years older
               | than Mozilla, but does it look like the browser project
               | will be finished or moving in a great direction any time
               | soon while there's big opportunities for grift and graft?
               | 
               | Make is pretty slow which is why `ninja`, funnily enough,
               | was invented to speed up Google Chrome build times.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_(build_system)
        
               | photonthug wrote:
               | I'm the cto of the fork foundation where we provide
               | important alternatives to spoons and work hard to serve
               | our community with the kind of necessary innovations that
               | putting modern food into that hole in your face requires.
               | 
               | If you think about it spending a few billion a year on
               | R+D is the least you could expect when modern food is
               | changing at such a rapid pace! And aren't you glad the
               | whole world isn't spoons? I decline to discuss personal
               | compensation because I don't see how that's relevant to
               | the issues here!
        
             | mrec wrote:
             | Mozilla thus far have been very reluctant to take donations
             | to Firefox specifically. AFAIK you can still only donate to
             | the Foundation, not the Corp, which means that most if not
             | all of the cash will get spent on random non-Firefox-
             | related things that you probably couldn't care less about.
        
             | speckx wrote:
             | I don't see how donations ensures that there is no
             | enshittification.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Indeed. Kagi proves users are willing to pay for search (me
           | included, recently).
        
           | iteratethis wrote:
           | This to me is the ultimate sign that Mozilla has zero values
           | or principles.
           | 
           | They've long advocated that Big Tech is a problem, but as
           | soon as somebody tries to actually address it and this
           | coincidentally impacting Mozilla, they abandon any and all
           | principles.
        
         | drdec wrote:
         | My problem with extensions is it's another development team to
         | trust and monitor. I need to know if the extension has been
         | sold, taken over by a new lead, etc.
        
           | ar_lan wrote:
           | After the Great Suspender debacle, I feel the same. I try to
           | limit plugins/extensions to as many minimal use cases as
           | possible.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Yeah that's definitely fair, I have the same concern.
           | Currently I've reduced my extensions to just a few that I
           | either trust (like gorhill's) or that I wrote myself. But I
           | think it would be huge if Mozilla built out the tooling
           | needed to keep a better monitor on them. It's an extremely
           | hard problem to be sure though.
        
             | kelvinjps10 wrote:
             | They already did? The have a list pf extension that are
             | monitored by them as well authoring a few ones
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | This is why I prefer Safari's content blockers. As far as I
           | understand, there is no risk of content blockers sending out
           | information.
        
           | nikisweeting wrote:
           | Luckily there's an extension for that: [Under New Management
           | | Chrome Web
           | Store](https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/under-new-
           | managemen...)
        
           | jesuslop wrote:
           | Yep while this manifest v3 ugly thing is putting me on the
           | brink of jumping ship (I compromise by having two browsers),
           | as for your concern I found that Chrome is going to allow
           | blacklisting extensions for sites, so now I can turn them off
           | for the few sites that I really worry to grant extension read
           | access.
           | 
           | chrome://flags, "Extensions Menu Access Control" flag.
           | https://developer.chrome.com/blog/new-extensions-menu-
           | testin...
        
             | RamRodification wrote:
             | If you are fine with two browsers, maybe you could instead
             | look into separate Firefox profiles with different sets of
             | extensions. I have added "-p" to my Firefox shortcut so it
             | always starts with the profile picker thing.
        
         | badgersnake wrote:
         | Google will just slip in a few more "improvements" to Gmeet,
         | Gmail and YouTube that happen to not work or perform very
         | poorly on Firefox.
        
         | bravoetch wrote:
         | It would be enough if Apple realized the same thing. They're in
         | a position to have the best browser, and coast along ignoring
         | the opportunity.
        
         | jordanb wrote:
         | > I hope Mozilla realizes (and still cares) that they have a
         | huge opportunity here to be the power-browser where you can get
         | awesome extensions,
         | 
         | The problem is that Mozilla's customers are not Firefox's
         | users. Mozilla's customer is Google. They pay Mozilla to exist
         | and they are paying Mozilla to intentionally drive Firefox into
         | the ground.
         | 
         | I think it's pretty clear that the TOS change basically
         | coincided with the removal of manifest v2 change in chrome.
        
           | AstralSerenity wrote:
           | My understanding is Mozilla contracted its footprint
           | substantially to remain sustainable in a future without
           | Google's monetary contribution.
        
             | drpossum wrote:
             | Then they wouldn't be throwing money into open firepits on
             | trash like a VPN service or how to comply with Google's
             | advertising decisions.
             | 
             | Then they would let people contribute money to the browser
             | (instead of to Mozilla Foundation which goes to enabling
             | aforementioned trash fires) and to the salary of a multi-
             | million dollar CEO after laying off developer staff and
             | hiring more C-suite assistants.
             | 
             | Mozilla is a bad organization in every sense, a bad steward
             | of Firefox, and the best thing that could happen is they
             | _do_ have their funding cut, they go out of business
             | forever, and Firefox finds a good home chosen by the
             | community.
        
               | AstralSerenity wrote:
               | I imagine their VPN service is financially viable if
               | they've still stuck with it this long.
               | 
               | Aside from that, they've just about cut all other
               | initiatives aside from "Firefox and AI". The latter gives
               | me pause, but hopefully they really are more focused
               | moving forward.
               | 
               | I think Mozilla has done alright, but I agree the folks
               | is in charge of their business direction and especially
               | PR are abysmal. Personally, I wish a company like Proton
               | was at the helm.
        
               | bilalq wrote:
               | Isn't Mozilla's VPN just a thin UI over Mullvad's
               | servers? I don't think it costs them much and probably
               | brings in some decent revenue.
        
               | glenstein wrote:
               | >Then they wouldn't be throwing money into open firepits
               | on trash like a VPN service
               | 
               | It's pants-on-head level of crazy talk to suggest that
               | the VPN service is compromising Mozilla's finances.
               | 
               | It's a re-wrapped Mullvad VPN that probably was not
               | expensive to roll out (it being inexpensive to deploy is
               | probably precisely the reason they moved forward with
               | it). It's like people are just workshopping arguments
               | where they randomly claim these things are expensive
               | without any substantiation whatsoever.
               | 
               | Mozilla is sitting on 1.2 billion in assets and
               | investments. They're not underwater. They are indeed in a
               | position where they need to diversify revenue, but the
               | idea that the side bets have created running deficits is
               | a narrative completely manufactured in comment sections.
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | The VPN service is probably the most sensible thing they
               | could lean into. It's basically all margin and it works
               | nicely with the privacy messaging.
        
               | wussboy wrote:
               | This kind of thinking appears to be prevalent. "Firefox
               | does one specific thing which I construe as evil.
               | Therefore I use the competitor which also does this
               | thing, plus dozens of others which are anti-competitive
               | and generally destructive to the ecosystem."
               | 
               | "The coleslaw in the Jedi salad bar has raisins.
               | Therefore I joined the Sith. Their coleslaw also has
               | raisins."
        
               | AceJohnny2 wrote:
               | > _Then they would let people contribute money to the
               | browser_
               | 
               | People keep saying things like this, but the truth is
               | that direct contributions to any ad-supported system
               | contribute more like 1%-10% (at best) of their income.
               | 
               | You are not the majority you think you are.
        
               | nine_k wrote:
               | It does not have to be the majority. It would suffice to
               | produce _enough_ funds to continue developing Firefox,
               | with full-time engineers, infrastructure, etc.
               | 
               | The whole Mozilla foundation budget oscillated around
               | $100-120M/y for last few years. Let's assume that half of
               | it was dedicated to Firefox; e.g. $60M/y. It would take
               | 500k users paying $120/y (aka $10/mo) to support their
               | favorite browser. The current audience of Firefox is
               | approx. 170M users; it would take about _0.3 percent_ of
               | the audience to be paying users; 0.6% if you lower the
               | rate to $5 /mo.
               | 
               | This is how any freemium works.
               | 
               | Even more funnily, someone with a good reputation could
               | just start an organization to accept the payments and
               | direct them to Mozilla developers, both Mozilla employees
               | and significant open-source contributors. Eventually the
               | developers might stop needing the paycheck from Mozilla,
               | and thus from Google.
        
               | dropofwill wrote:
               | Spotify makes over 80% of revenue off of paid
               | subscribers, even though over 60% of users are on the
               | free, ad-supported subscription.
               | 
               | Now that's not some optional donation scheme, there are
               | real tangible benefits to being a paid subscriber, so idk
               | how that could fit into something like Firefox.
        
               | aucisson_masque wrote:
               | > they go out of business forever, and Firefox finds a
               | good home chosen by the community.
               | 
               | who is going to support, maintain and develop Firefox in
               | your scenario ?
        
           | AceJohnny2 wrote:
           | > _They pay Mozilla to exist_
           | 
           | Do they? I thought Google significantly reduced their
           | payments to Mozilla a few years back, which started Mozilla
           | current random-walk.
           | 
           | Edit: As of 2023, they were as high as ever at 85% of
           | Mozilla's finances coming from Google [1] . However the DoJ
           | antitrust case against Google targets Google's payments to
           | various entities (Mozilla, Apple) to make themselves the
           | default search engine, thus threatening Mozilla's income. I
           | did not immediately find sources for Mozilla's 2024 finances,
           | but I can imagine they see the existential threat.
           | 
           | > _and they are paying Mozilla to intentionally drive Firefox
           | into the ground._
           | 
           | That's just conspiracy-thinking.
           | 
           | [1]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation#Finances
        
         | JasserInicide wrote:
         | _I hope Mozilla realizes (and still cares) that they have a
         | huge opportunity here to be the power-browser where you can get
         | awesome extensions_
         | 
         | Don't worry, they won't. They have more important endeavors
         | like funding some new bullshit virtue signalling campaign and
         | paying huge CEO bonuses.
        
           | glenstein wrote:
           | It's like a never-ending horde of zombies that comes in and
           | makes this cheap shot over and over. My understanding is the
           | CEO makes slightly more than 1% of their revenues. And it's
           | actually low compared to the typical tech CEO.
           | 
           | But what's the story of cause and effect here such that if
           | they'd invested 1% of their revenue differently, they would
           | jump from 3% market share back to 30% or wherever they were
           | previously? Once you ask these questions out loud, it's clear
           | that people aren't thinking through the steps of the
           | argument.
        
           | phatfish wrote:
           | Mozilla really does get under the skin of wannabe tech bros.
        
         | Aerroon wrote:
         | Can you install your own personal extensions without getting
         | permission from Mozilla yet? Or are they still banning that?
         | Because that change drove me away from Firefox.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | FF is supporting V2 and V3 on purpose, so they are doing what
         | you want
        
         | bigtimesink wrote:
         | If this doesn't give FF a noticeable bounce, FF really is a
         | lost cause.
        
       | klysm wrote:
       | The shareholders will be grateful! A great victory for google!
        
       | freedomben wrote:
       | I blacklisted Chrome in dnf (the Fedora system update manager)
       | once we hit near the last version to allow manifest v2, but
       | apparently it wasn't enough. They reached in to my system and
       | deactivated/deleted my manifest v2 extensions anyway regardless,
       | even though my version still "supports" them. I'm quite
       | displeased to say the least. Ultimately it's probably for the
       | best though as now my "slow fade" plan has to be accelerated.
       | Time to rip the bandaid off.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Proton and Kagi have most of the services I've personally
         | needed to de-Google. GCP is nicer than AWS, so will probably
         | keep that around as a paying customer. Only thing I haven't
         | found a great replacement yet for Google Docs (MS office is
         | abysmal, but also lack of testing of alternatives so far :) ).
        
           | haarolean wrote:
           | I love Kagi's Orion but it's still not good enough yet to
           | switch off chrome completely. You realize this once you delve
           | deeper, install extensions, and use it as your daily driver.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Looking forward to their Linux port. I should have added
             | FF/Vivaldi to the list.
        
         | zelphirkalt wrote:
         | Spyware doing malware things. I guess it is unexpected in this
         | case, but in hindsight just confirming its malware character.
        
       | darkhorse222 wrote:
       | I've been using Firefox for years now after being an avid chrome
       | user and I do not miss it at all.
        
       | chrisweekly wrote:
       | Hoping someone can point me to a Chrome browser extension that
       | supports custom block rules. My strange situ involves an IT-
       | managed laptop / browser that can't access certain websites
       | because of their embedded resources (eg fonts) hosted on 3rd-
       | party domains; firewall rules block the embedded content,
       | breaking the (allowed) main site I'm trying to visit. uBlock
       | Origin was perfect: I'd craft custom rules to disallow
       | problematic embedded resources, problem solved.
        
         | subarctic wrote:
         | Isn't there a lite version of ublock origin that works with
         | manifest v3?
        
           | dowager_dan99 wrote:
           | only gets updated when published and doesn't support custom
           | rules or element picking :(
        
         | dowager_dan99 wrote:
         | I have a similar situation, though for more personal, first-
         | world problems. I used custom rules for things like YT shorts,
         | Jira's giant bar for emoji-responses in comments, etc. I'm not
         | sure there's a good substitute on Chrome because Google's
         | primary intent was to destroy the efficacy of this tooling.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Is it actually gone? I thought they just put that warning.
       | 
       | I just re-enabled the one already installed on my devices.
       | 
       | Once it's legit gone gone though yeah I'm going to Firefox or use
       | Edge for web dev stuff
       | 
       | Edit: I will say I am a hypocrite though I am trying to build a
       | following by posting on YouTube... I don't control the ads on
       | there, maybe you do when you are monetizable but yeah sucks I
       | feel bad for the viewers. At the same time... I'll spend
       | weeks/months on a project and no one cares so idk.
        
         | dowager_dan99 wrote:
         | gone for some... many... most.
        
         | garciasn wrote:
         | I re-enabled it last week but they forced removed it again days
         | later. I re-enabled it by force and it's still working, but it
         | won't be for much longer, I'm certain.
         | 
         | https://www.neowin.net/guides/google-turned-off-ublock-in-ch...
         | 
         | This URL, shared elsewhere in this thread, seems to tell you
         | how to get it back up and running if you cannot do it easily;
         | that said, I'll be moving to FF if they continue their
         | shenanigans.
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | what does sock I've written a few of my own extensions and
           | they're manifest v2 ugh... but thankfully I was able to turn
           | them back on
        
       | vivzkestrel wrote:
       | what ll it take to convert 80% of the world wide web users from
       | chrome to firefox. can we write a super duper complicated
       | migrator of sorts that literally installs firefox on behalf of
       | the user, migrates all their data, migrates all extensions from
       | chrome to firefox, even suggests alternative extensions for the
       | ones that are not available and market the hell out of this
       | migrator across x, bluesky, reddit etc?, One click migration from
       | chrome to firefox, 0 tinkering
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | The largest web properties pushing Firefox to users, or perhaps
         | social media campaigns. It's an outreach effort, the technical
         | details are already solved. Make the Google/Chrome brand toxic.
         | 
         | https://blog.mozilla.org/en/privacy-security/how-to-switch-f...
        
           | joshuaissac wrote:
           | This is how Internet Explorer (via Windows), Chrome (via
           | Google Search and YouTube) and Safari (via iOS) gained
           | significant market share. Through another platform or service
           | that they owned, that they could use to promote their
           | browser.
           | 
           | But large Web properties do not gain anything by promoting
           | Firefox. Many are ad-supported, so getting rid of uBlock
           | Origin is a good thing for them. Only having to test on
           | Google Chrome (and maybe Safari) is cheaper for them. There
           | has to be something in it for them to promote Firefox or an
           | alternative browser.
        
         | jonwinstanley wrote:
         | Opening FF with my existing 3 windows and 100 open tabs would
         | be all it took :-)
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | I'm just hoping for AI coding to get competent enough in next
         | few years to throw in deprecated chrome extensions code and get
         | it converted to firefox.
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | The vast majority of Chrome extensions work on Firefox. Up
           | until Manifest V2 being deprecated, the reverse was true,
           | too.
        
         | rendang wrote:
         | What's keeping me from moving away from Chrome is the password
         | storage & autofilling. Is Firefox's password manager just as
         | good?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/manage-your-logins-
           | fire...
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | Yup. Sync across all devices, auto fill works a exactly as
           | expected, and it's a couple click process to port over all
           | your saved info from Chrome.
        
           | SirMaster wrote:
           | Why not use an agnostic one like LastPass or one of the
           | others?
        
             | rendang wrote:
             | Having the passwords available automatically when logging
             | in to gmail on a new device feels simpler and easier since
             | I'd be doing that anyway, as opposed to needing to DL a new
             | app
        
         | freefaler wrote:
         | To migrate, the average user will need to see the problem
         | first. Most people wouldn't care enough about it even if they
         | magically could press a button and migrate.
         | 
         | In the attention economy the browser and the mobile OS (and
         | soon your LLM/Perplexity agent) are the most important points
         | to control the aggregate user data. So it's a lost battle.
         | 
         | For a sub 0.01% of the nerds there would be alternatives for
         | the non-DRM content, but this wouldn't change the big picture.
         | 
         | It's like the junk food business. Yes it's bad for people, but
         | it's so addictive...
        
       | stevetron wrote:
       | The source code is available for Chrome. Suppose one downloads
       | the source code, and then re-enables the Manifest v2? A bit of
       | work, particularly when you have to do other things that probably
       | allow it to co-exist with Manifest v3, and Manifest v4 when it
       | comes. And prevent updates from taking it all out again. While
       | working on it, flip the compiler's command-line switch that
       | allows the executable to run on Windows 7.
       | 
       | How long after the announced Windows 10 end of life will it be
       | before all the software companies say 'Windows 11 is the minimum'
       | like was seen with Windows 7?
        
         | fpg69 wrote:
         | The source code is available for Chromium, not Chrome. You can
         | always maintain a fork, but it's a lot of work, and it's not a
         | great solution to the problem of "world's largest surveillance
         | company makes world's most popular browser".
        
         | p_ing wrote:
         | Keeping MV2 going is a massive and unrealistic effort for a
         | small dev group while continuing to incorporate upstream
         | changes. You cannot leave a browser without those upstream
         | changes as they include security patches.
        
       | dgacmu wrote:
       | I've been running firefox on my laptop for the last year, with
       | Chrome on my desktop, as a way to head-to-head them. For folks
       | contemplating the switch, it hasn't been bad at all. Some better,
       | some worse, but overall I rarely notice major differences except
       | for a very small handful of sites that won't work with FF.
       | 
       | And I still have all of my uBlock origin happiness. :)
        
         | theteapot wrote:
         | What sites don't work with FF?
        
           | kingnothing wrote:
           | I've been daily driving Firefox for several years. Everything
           | I use on a daily basis works fine on FF, but every now and
           | then you come across some random site that doesn't load or
           | loads poorly.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | Certainly no major site.
        
             | CivBase wrote:
             | I subscribed to SlingTV a little over a year ago and it did
             | not support Firefox, even with all the DRM enabled.
             | Although that's a problem I blame on SlingTV, not Firefox.
             | It was a known issue which they refused to address. I've
             | since ended my subscription with them.
             | 
             | IIRC, there was also a time when Netflix did not support
             | its highest streaming quality on Firefox. I'm not sure if
             | that's still the case since I also ended my Netflix
             | subscription.
             | 
             | Otherwise I cannot think of any major site which is not
             | supported on Firefox. Outside my employer's fragile
             | intranet, I can't think of _any_ sites which do not support
             | Firefox.
        
           | mrec wrote:
           | Amazon properties (the storefront, Prime) have been quite
           | flaky for a long time now, but that may just be me.
        
           | dgacmu wrote:
           | I can't login to the work-paid-for version of Microsoft
           | Copilot with Firefox, for some reason. I've had one or two
           | others - I think they were internal CMU website tools. And
           | even more niche: My kids took a ski lesson last year at
           | Snowbird and the website with their report card rejected
           | anything that didn't identify as Chrome. It _worked_ with
           | mobile FF, but it popped up a "YOU SHOULD USE CHROME" banner
           | and wouldn't let me past.
           | 
           | So, small stuff. Maybe Copilot isn't working because of
           | ublock, though.
        
             | DoingIsLearning wrote:
             | You can also disable ublock on specific 'trusted' domains.
        
           | weberer wrote:
           | The Teams web app doesn't work (I refuse to install the OS
           | level app)
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | seems like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face
        
               | weberer wrote:
               | Why? I can just temporarily launch Chrome if I need to
               | join a meeting. There's no need to have MSware running in
               | the background 24/7 doing god knows what.
        
           | venusenvy47 wrote:
           | Expedia doesn't render properly in Firefox - some of the
           | sections are missing, but it's not immediately obvious what
           | is missing. It took me a while to figure out why my wife kept
           | having problems with that site, and I had to move her to
           | Chrome to allow her to use it.
           | 
           | I continue to use Firefox because I know when to suspect a
           | website problem might be the browser, but she doesn't have
           | the ability to analyze a situation like this. I have this
           | conundrum with other family members that I support. I want
           | them to use Firefox, but I hate to have them run into an
           | issue because of the browser I recommended.
        
             | moritonal wrote:
             | Do you have Enhanced Tracking Protection on? It often
             | blocks this kind of third party content
        
           | clintfred wrote:
           | I can't get ticketmaster to work reliably on Firefox. I guess
           | it thinks I'm a bot. I can use Chrome on the same computer
           | and book tickets just fine.
           | 
           | One crap product forcing me to use another crap product! ;)
        
           | lelandbatey wrote:
           | Bizzarely, Microsoft Word on web seems to be the only thing
           | I've encountered which has FireFox problems, specifically
           | it'll periodically "save" the document I'm typing and then
           | delete the last sentence or two that I changed while it was
           | saving. I think it's some kind of broken state management on
           | the MS side (leave it to MS). That's the only site I've used
           | though, and I've been a daily driver of FF for 10 years.
        
         | knight_47 wrote:
         | My biggest complaints with my switch is 1) no Chromecast
         | functionality on Youtube and many other supported video
         | platforms, 2) Very minimal page/text translation services
         | (Arabic is missing), and 3) no search or translate from image
         | (google lens) which I have gotten pretty used to. Oh and also,
         | seeking videos is weird on FF, the mouse goes way past the
         | scrubber when fast-forwarding or rewinding, just seems weird..
        
           | AstralSerenity wrote:
           | Add-on replacements: - Linguist for translations. - Search by
           | Image for reverse image search (there are others that just
           | use Google Lens directly, but I use this one).
           | 
           | Cast is a bit more cumbersome. There is fx_cast on GitHub,
           | but it requires a companion app. Firefox seems to want to add
           | cast based on a flag you used to be able to enable, but I'm
           | guessing there are some restrictions from Google's end they
           | ran into.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | Be sure to use "Report broken site" in the main menu on that
         | handful of sites. Often there are things folks can do to fix it
         | for you, if many people are running into it - but only if it's
         | known.
         | 
         | More info:
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1de7bu1/were_the_f...
        
       | prophesi wrote:
       | The adblock I use[0] (based on uBlock) hasn't been available on
       | the Chrome store nearly since day 1.
       | 
       | [0] https://adnauseam.io/
        
       | phito wrote:
       | I hear so many people IRL complaining about this. I tell them to
       | switch to firefox, that the adblockers still work there, and they
       | still won't switch to it because they are "used to chrome". I
       | really feel like google won this battle. People will through a
       | lot of abuse just to maintain their habits.
        
         | inertiatic wrote:
         | I use Firefox as my main browser and it's not a viable
         | alternative to Chrome if you have the very common usage pattern
         | of keeping tens of tabs open.
        
           | theteapot wrote:
           | What? Why? That's me, I use FF.
        
             | ecuzzillo wrote:
             | You can't see all 50-70 tabs on a normal 27" monitor;
             | Chrome will squish them almost indefinitely, and Firefox
             | forces a large minimum tab width that makes the tab bar
             | scroll forever and then you forget half the tabs you have
             | going and everything's bad. I tried to switch and stopped
             | because of this. I'll hang on until ubo really stops
             | working, I guess, and then try to figure something else
             | out.
        
               | lostmsu wrote:
               | There's a alternative: the dropdown menu with all tabs.
        
               | ecuzzillo wrote:
               | This doesn't fix the "you can't see all your tabs by just
               | moving your eyes" problem, does it?
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | I use Firefox as my main browser and having "tens of tabs
           | open" is something I do and there's zero issues with that.
        
             | Spivak wrote:
             | I regularly have 200+ tabs open in FF, no idea what the
             | parent is talking about.
             | 
             | Right now I'm at 181 and it's still buttery smooth.
        
               | kennysoona wrote:
               | Goodness just install a tab session manager.
        
             | nightpool wrote:
             | How big is your monitor? I can only see about 10-15 tabs on
             | my 4k monitor before Firefox starts scrolling them off the
             | screen. I regularly have 2-3x that on Chrome before tabs
             | stop showing up.
        
               | weberer wrote:
               | I have 54 tabs open right now. The Sideberry extension
               | lets you view them in the left sidebar. They're nested so
               | that collapsing a root tab will also collapse all child
               | tabs. There are also super tabs (Sideberry calls them
               | "Tabs panels") so you can switch between entire groups of
               | tabs.
        
           | lawn wrote:
           | I constantly have way more than that open. On mobile it's
           | also over 100 tabs.
        
           | Ringz wrote:
           | I have no problem with hundreds of tabs on Firefox.
        
             | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
             | There is a "tab count" extension. Install it only if you
             | want to learn some awful truths about yourself.
        
               | masfuerte wrote:
               | You don't need an extension. Right-click on a tab and
               | "Select All Tabs". Right-click again and it has the
               | option "Close 1,122 Tabs". Your number may be smaller.
        
               | lelandbatey wrote:
               | That only works if you've got a single window open. For
               | myself, I keep ~10+ windows open, with then ~8 tabs per
               | window. Note this is only practical on a tiling window
               | manager. Anyway, the tab count extension may still be the
               | way to go.
        
           | kingnothing wrote:
           | Firefox works great with dozens of open tabs. The only thing
           | Chrome has going for it is tab groups. Firefox has Tab Style
           | Tree, which is a decent substitute.
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | Tab groups landed in Firefox Nightly 3 months ago,[1] I'd
             | expect them pretty soon in the release version.
             | 
             | [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1938187
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | I was using Firefox exclusively for years, but when I sold my
           | Macbook and bought a Thinkpad and installed Linux on it, I
           | grew pretty annoyed by Firefox.
           | 
           | Specifically, I couldn't view my 360 videos or photos on
           | Google Images or Immich at anywhere near acceptable
           | performance. The videos, recorded at 30fps, would get maybe
           | 5fps. This was weird, because I have a fairly beefy laptop,
           | it should be able to handle these videos just fine
           | (especially since my iPhone handled it just fine).
           | 
           | After a bit of debugging, it appears that there's a bug in
           | how it's writing for the shader cache, and as such there was
           | no hardware acceleration. I found a bug filed about my issue
           | [1], and I didn't really feel like trying to fix it, because
           | I didn't want to mess with Mesa drivers. I just installed
           | Chromium and that's what I'm using right now, and it worked
           | with my 360 videos and photos absolutely fine.
           | 
           | I want Firefox to succeed, but that really left a bad taste
           | in my mouth; it's not like it's weird to want my browser to
           | be hardware accelerated.
           | 
           | [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1921742
           | Looks like it might be fixed now, or at least they figured
           | out it was an issue with Mesa
        
           | Coffeewine wrote:
           | Surely this is hyperbole? I usually have hundreds of tabs
           | open on firefox.
        
           | porker wrote:
           | 751 tabs open right now and growing.
           | 
           | Firefox copes fine. Me? Not so much (:
        
             | kennysoona wrote:
             | 751 tabs open is just ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
             | 
             | Use some kind of tab session manager addon, and start
             | organizing things - no need to have them all open
             | concurrently.
        
               | nilslindemann wrote:
               | I use the Tab Groups Addon on Chrome.
        
           | asadotzler wrote:
           | 1,740 tabs open right now on my wife's Firefox and it seems
           | to be operating just fine. Sounds like something's wrong with
           | your Firefox. I recommend a refresh which can be found under
           | about:support
        
             | aucisson_masque wrote:
             | what the hell is she doing with 1740 tabs ? :)
             | 
             | 10, 20, even 30 i can understand. More is the equivalent of
             | forgetting to empty the kitchen trash can and still filling
             | it until the smell is horrible.
             | 
             | someone got to tell her there is a cross on the right to
             | close the tab.
        
           | chillingeffect wrote:
           | I keep 100s of tabs open for months in Firefox. Chromium
           | regulaly crashes after about 10-20.
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | It's learned helplessness, laziness, bordering on cowardice.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | People didn't switch from IE to Chrome because it was better.
         | 
         | They switched because it was MUCH, MUCH better.
         | 
         | (And was part of the ecosystem, profiles, bookmarks, passwords,
         | etc.)
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | For better or worse, no such disparity exists currently.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Well said. It also wasn't _worse_ in any way. It was strictly
           | better.
           | 
           | Firefox is definitely better than Chrome in some ways, but it
           | is also worse in others. Notably performance and integration
           | with Google's password manager.
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | They switched because Google bundled invisible Chrome
           | installers in other software that would not only make its
           | browser the default, but also invisibly steal IE clicks.
           | 
           | A move that was widely celebrated at the time.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | The adblockers still work on Chrome though.
         | 
         | Pretty sure people are figuring out to switch to uBlock Origin
         | Lite and ads -- including on YouTube -- are still being blocked
         | just fine.
        
           | TingPing wrote:
           | For now. Advertisers now know ways to bypass all blockers for
           | Chrome.
        
           | unicornporn wrote:
           | They "work", but not well.
           | 
           | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-
           | works-b...
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | Until those things don't work any longer. Slowly the frog is
           | boiled here.
        
         | stackedinserter wrote:
         | What's in Chrome that they are so used to? I use Vivaldi,
         | Chrome, Firefox on every day basis, and can barely see a
         | difference.
        
           | nkrebs13 wrote:
           | Bookmarks, history, generally historical reliability, and
           | (biggest reason for me) password manager.
           | 
           | I rarely have to type/remember passwords anymore on Android
           | or web and it "just works". I know there are password
           | managers out there that ostensibly handle the password-saving
           | thing and are browser-agnostic but when I tried it in the
           | past I had issues on some sites and, when it did work, it
           | felt clunkier.
        
         | kypro wrote:
         | People say similar things about Google Search, and a few times
         | I've tried not use Google Search but every time I've tried it's
         | become clear that the reason I use Google Search isn't just
         | habit, but that it's the best search engine for most queries I
         | perform.
         | 
         | I've had a very different experience with browsers though... I
         | switch browsers pretty often and with ease. I genuinely can't
         | get my head around why someone would continue to use Google
         | Chrome if they're unhappy with how they're treating their
         | users. The UI between browsers is 99% identical. The most
         | annoying thing about switching browser is just having to spend
         | 10 minutes setting things up, but that isn't going to exceed
         | the annoyance of having to see ads constantly for months or
         | years.
         | 
         | There's really no good reason not to switch browsers. Your
         | habits are not going to change between browsers. Unless you're
         | a Chrome power user and using some very niche features in
         | Chrome there is very, very little difference between Firefox
         | and Chrome for the vast majority of tasks.
        
           | iforgotpassword wrote:
           | Well, today mostly yes. But at the same time, I've been an
           | Opera user (if not fanboy) for a good decade, until they
           | ditched their own engine and basically started from scratch
           | with chrome as a base. It lost 99% of its features overnight.
           | 
           | I really struggled to switch to anything else. Firefox was
           | definitely the most customizable, but finding extensions to
           | replicate every feature of Opera, and properly at that, was a
           | never-ending nightmare.
           | 
           | Only at that point did I realize how vital a browser has
           | become for everyday tasks, and as a power user, how much you
           | get accustomed to it. Maybe not if you're just running stock
           | Chrome or Firefox with two extensions, but Opera was so
           | feature-rich that I didn't ever install a single extension
           | but needed about a dozen on Firefox to try and mimic it. In
           | the end I just stayed on Opera 12 until it wasn't even funny
           | anymore. It must've been about two years. Eventually so many
           | sites broke that I just switched to Firefox and only
           | installed uBO and greasemonkey. It hurt but over time I just
           | gradually forgot what using opera was like. Sometimes I think
           | back and really miss it. Some of it is just nostalgia by now,
           | but the struggle switching was real.
        
             | aucisson_masque wrote:
             | i keep seeing some people pretend Vivaldi is the new opera,
             | made from the same developer.
             | 
             | did you give a try, is it even remotely comparable ?
        
               | iforgotpassword wrote:
               | I don't remember when I tried it for the first time, but
               | I did like it much better than the new opera. At least
               | they were adding new features much faster. It was still
               | different enough and lacking (to me) important features
               | from the old opera. I still have it installed today as
               | the fallback for the exceedingly rare case that some site
               | doesn't work in Firefox and I really need to access it.
               | But I have to admit that I didn't really bother to
               | evaluate it properly in a long time. An ex colleague
               | doing webdev just recently told me it's his primary
               | browser as it has some nice things to make his life
               | easier that were just more cumbersome to set up in
               | chrome. I just gave up and accepted that at least by
               | using Firefox I'm fighting the engine-monopoly of
               | chrome/blink. ;)
        
         | vvpan wrote:
         | Wanted to note that uBlock works on Firefox mobile browser too
         | - it is excellent.
        
           | 6SixTy wrote:
           | Only the Android version has uBlock just fyi. Also, I've
           | never been able to watch movies on a plane with Firefox
           | mobile.
        
         | JoeOfTexas wrote:
         | Debugging on Firefox has always been awkward with sourcemaps.
         | The sourcemaps load late, so breakpointing is hard at load
         | time.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | While JS debugging seems to be a bit slower, I find their
           | HTML/CSS debugging tools far superior to Chrome's. Neither
           | browser engine is great for the whole package, but overall I
           | really prefer Firefox when it comes to dev tools.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | In the end sighing and going "stupid Google" is a lot easier
         | than changing even the smallest of habits.
         | 
         | People also seem to think switching over is some kind of
         | involved process for some reason.
        
         | megadata wrote:
         | The Stockholm Syndrome.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
        
       | chpatrick wrote:
       | This made me go back to Firefox after 15 years of using Chrome
       | personally.
        
       | k0stas wrote:
       | There is still a DOM hack to allow installation by re-enabling
       | the "Add to Chrome" button on the linked page. See "Download and
       | install uBlock Origin in Chrome" on this page:
       | https://www.neowin.net/guides/google-turned-off-ublock-in-ch...
       | 
       | After the install, Chrome will disable the extension on the next
       | restart but it can be re-enabled .. for now.
        
       | AJRF wrote:
       | I am coming from a place of ignorance, but could uBlock have
       | worked on Manifest v3?
       | 
       | It seems like it would have worked, but the danger was over time
       | Google report less and less information to the extension, but as
       | it is today, the extension would have worked the same on v3 as
       | v2?
       | 
       | As I say - I am ignorant sorry, its hard to search for an answer
       | to this specific question
       | 
       | Edit: Sorry the answer is here:
       | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-as...
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | The ability to run code to decide if a request should be
         | blocked was removed in v3.
         | 
         | If it could work in v3 it would have been updated. There are
         | some alternate v3 versions that don't work as well.
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | if you are in tech do your friends and family a favor:
       | 
       | Download and setup Brave browser on their device. I haven't seen
       | an ad in years.
       | 
       | https://brave.com/
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | Still the same engine as Chrome, so it doesn't do anything
         | against the monoculture of Chromium. Firefox works just as
         | well, admittedly they'd have to install an extension instead of
         | ad blocking being there by default.
        
           | agosta wrote:
           | This post is about UBlock being blocked on CHROME. Naturally,
           | the folks interested in this development are likely
           | interested in a chromium based browser that does allow
           | blocking ads. Brave is a solid solution here.
        
         | agosta wrote:
         | It's funny people try to avoid Brave because of the crypto
         | stuff init - like you can totally ignore that (it's not even
         | enabled by default). So in daily usage, it behaves as if uBlock
         | was a browser (rather than a Browser extension). It's great.
        
       | kemono_tigris wrote:
       | Since Chrome discontinued support for Manifest V2 extensions,
       | I've switched to Mullvad Browser for browsing ad-heavy websites.
       | It comes with uBlock Origin pre-installed, is open source, and is
       | developed by a reputable company.
        
       | Stagnant wrote:
       | For now you can still bring back manifest v2 support (which re-
       | enables ublock origin if you haven't removed it) by making
       | registry changes. Obviously only a temporary solution, might buy
       | you a few months.
       | 
       | Powershell commands to set them:
       | 
       | 1. New-Item -Path "HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Policies\Google\Chrome" -Force
       | 
       | 2. New-ItemProperty -Path "HKLM:\SOFTWARE\Policies\Google\Chrome"
       | -Name "ExtensionManifestV2Availability" -Value 2 -PropertyType
       | DWORD -Force
        
       | charliea0 wrote:
       | Is there any justification for this beyond increasing Google's ad
       | revenue?
        
         | djpr wrote:
         | Funny thing is: It's to prepare for when Chrome is spun off
         | from Google, due to increasing US government pressure.
         | 
         | See: https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/08/new-doj-proposal-still-
         | cal...
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Performance. For faster page loads.
         | 
         | uBlock Origin Lite still blocks ads on Chrome, but it's faster
         | than uBlock Origin.
         | 
         | I don't expect Google's ad revenue has changed meaningfully at
         | all, assuming people switch to uBlock Origin Lite.
        
           | gkbrk wrote:
           | It blocks less ads, it's not surprising that it's faster.
        
             | warkdarrior wrote:
             | I thought the browser would be faster when blocking _more_
             | ads, not fewer ads.
        
         | FergusArgyll wrote:
         | The quiet part which none of us are saying out loud (bec. we
         | love UBO) is that it's insane to allow extensions to have that
         | much power.
         | 
         | uBlock Origin is obv a great great extension and I'm
         | considering switching to FF just for that one extension, but
         | consider what some newfangled AI extension developed by a
         | random dude can do to the webpage you're viewing - anything UBO
         | can do! So I think they have a decent case but I wish there was
         | a carveout for UBO
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | The banner at the top is really selling it
       | 
       | >Switch to Chrome to install extensions and themes
        
       | jmuguy wrote:
       | Related if anyone is switching over. I like to run Firefox
       | Developer Edition[0] as my "work" browser, with work related
       | bookmarks, etc. and then regular Firefox for nonwork. This makes
       | it really easy to keep the two separate. I know there's a lot of
       | ways to segment within the same browser but this works well for
       | me.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | FYI developer edition has a ton of additional data collection
         | that I don't believe can be disabled, if that matters to you.
        
           | eNV25 wrote:
           | Isn't Developer Edition just a rebranded Firefox Beta that
           | uses a different profile by default?
        
             | callahad wrote:
             | Same branch as beta, but with different build flags. Add-
             | ons don't need to be signed to be installed on DevEdition,
             | there's a DevTools button in the toolbar by default, etc.
        
         | bangaladore wrote:
         | Chromium has a concept of "user data directories" which in
         | theory keep all data isolated to a single folder. You can use a
         | launch parameter to specify what the user data directory you
         | want to use is (so a shortcut). I'm pretty sure Firefox must
         | have an equivalent.
        
           | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
           | It does, it's just called profiles. And they have a setting
           | to always launch sthe profile selector on start.
        
             | aceazzameen wrote:
             | Yes, I used to always use a work profile and a home profile
             | in Firefox. Over time I simply made more containers and
             | stopped using profiles altogether. But the option is still
             | there.
        
         | regularjack wrote:
         | Containers are firefox's killer feature, highly encourage you
         | to try them. I wish Mozilla would invest more in developing
         | that feature.
        
         | dpz wrote:
         | You can also just use Firefox containers. Or if you don't want
         | to send all the data with dev use a fork of firefox
        
         | Noumenon72 wrote:
         | Thanks. I didn't use uBlock but I will be switching due to
         | Chrome removing support for non-subsituting keywords (search
         | engines with no %s), which I used heavily as basically aliases
         | for web addresses.
         | 
         | https://issues.chromium.org/issues/397720842?pli=1
        
         | RamRodification wrote:
         | You can achieve the same (or similar) thing with Firefox
         | profiles. Just launch with "-p" and it'll give you a profile
         | picker. You can have a work profile with separate extensions,
         | bookmarks, settings, etc.
        
       | aeblyve wrote:
       | If you do not interfere in politics, eventually politics will
       | interfere with you.
        
       | pton_xd wrote:
       | Thanks for keeping me safe, Google! You know better than me what
       | software I should be running on my computer.
        
         | ta1243 wrote:
         | What goes around...
         | 
         | We had mainframes and dumb terminals where the work was done in
         | a remote data centre you connected to
         | 
         | Then we had the personal computer revolution where the work was
         | done on the box you owned and controlled on your desk
         | 
         | Then we moved to the cloud where work is done in a remote data
         | centre you connect to
        
       | portaouflop wrote:
       | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/releases
       | 
       | uBlockOrigin "Lite" is a good(?) replacement afaict
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | It's faster and safer and blocks pretty much everything.
        
       | submeta wrote:
       | Abandoned Chrome years ago. Am using Firefox and never looked
       | back. Same with other Google products: Replaced Gmail with
       | Fastmail, Google Docs with Office365 (yeah, I know, Microsoft).
        
         | fiatjaf wrote:
         | The hardest thing to replace was always search to me, because
         | the usually alternatives (DuckDuckGo, Ecosia etc) always suck.
         | 
         | But Kagi made that part so easy it's unbelievable.
        
           | submeta wrote:
           | Ever looked into Perplexity? Will check out Kagi.
        
           | alluro2 wrote:
           | I'm genuinely curious about why you find DDG sucking compared
           | to Google Search? I've switched ~2 years ago, when I found
           | DDG better in terms of less clutter and not showing ads as
           | results - also, if there are no good results, it didn't push
           | nonsense. But maybe GS improved in the meantime on the
           | quality of results and I'm missing out?
        
             | sedatk wrote:
             | For starters, they use a terrible custom font as
             | default[1], and that tells me that they don't have their
             | priorities straight in terms of product quality.
             | 
             | [1] https://bsky.app/profile/ssg.dev/post/3lhftw36rac2x
        
           | submeta wrote:
           | Wow, Kagi is just extremely good. Found old friends I
           | couldn't reach, found product infos where Google would
           | pollute me with ads and garbage. This is awesome. Thanks for
           | mentioning.
        
       | dartharva wrote:
       | Curiously, it is still working in Chrome on my laptop (running
       | Linux Mint) right now.
        
       | harrytang wrote:
       | It is a good ad blocker!
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Fortunately, at least so far, uBlock Origin Lite works perfectly
       | fine on Chrome.
       | 
       | I know people have made a lot of arguments as to why it might not
       | be as good in theory, or why things might change in the future.
       | But so far, ever since I was forced to switch, I have seen
       | exactly zero difference. Lists are updated often enough that I
       | haven't seen anything get through. Adblocking works on YouTube.
       | If anything, pages seem to load even a little faster. I've had no
       | complaints.
        
         | creato wrote:
         | It's also great to not give basically unlimited permissions to
         | an extension.
        
           | pmdr wrote:
           | I think people should be able to do whatever they want on
           | their own machine. If the setting is there, then let me use
           | it for whatever extension I see fit. Sure, make it harder to
           | do so, but don't treat users like children. I can't even
           | screenshot banking apps on my own damn Android phone now.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | It's not about _you_ being able to do whatever you want on
             | your machine. It 's extension authors being able to.
             | Malicious Chrome extensions are a huge problem.
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | Don't they have a vetting process for extensions? Even if
               | they don't, you, the (power)user should be able to
               | manually turn on whatever you want, should you so desire.
               | What's stunning is that we're moving away from this, for
               | our "security." And by then "use Firefox/something else"
               | won't be helpful when entire websites will refuse to work
               | on anything else but Chrome.
        
               | ikiris wrote:
               | Not really, no.
               | 
               | Putting security in scare quotes doesn't make the actual
               | risk go away. This is a blatant anti ad block move, but
               | you aren't making reasonable arguments either.
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | I'm not sure how not being able to use websites without
               | Chrome is unreasonable, though. If it hasn't come to that
               | already, it will soon.
               | 
               | One can find reasonable use cases for every security
               | measure that takes away freedom. That doesn't mean that
               | all such decisions are balanced, and I'm advocating that
               | the user be the one deciding their level of security,
               | knowingly. That's the most important part being taken
               | away, actually. Until there's palpable resistance (or
               | even doubt or endless debate), those taking things away
               | have no reason to stop.
        
               | ikiris wrote:
               | At no point did anyone argue you should be required to
               | use chrome to use some websites. That is a complete
               | strawman you made up here. No one is requiring you to use
               | chrome.
               | 
               | As to your security argument: If you've never seen the
               | past user's desktops filled with browser hijacking and ad
               | / virus ware, then I'm happy for you, but ignoring
               | serious security concerns isn't a valid approach to
               | managing an end user product regardless of the nebulous
               | slippery slope freedoms argument you're attempting to
               | make.
               | 
               | This is not an advocation to ban all adblockers, but you
               | are advocating for basically a free for all, and we've
               | seen how that works. It doesn't and this entire
               | discussion is a waste of time.
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | > the nebulous slippery slope freedoms argument you're
               | attempting to make.
               | 
               | But it is a slippery slope and we're already sliding
               | down, even if we don't want to. It's hard to make users
               | switch to something else. I know it, I assume you know
               | it, probably everyone on HN knows it. But, and this is
               | key, Google knows it. People are resistant to change,
               | especially if it means altering their workflow. Where
               | said workflow depends on a monopolistic product that's
               | key to unlocking even more ad revenue, do not think that
               | those with incentive won't hesitate to push for more
               | restrictions while claiming they have our own best
               | interest in mind.
               | 
               | No one brought it up now, but there have been cases of
               | websites being deliberately made slower on Firefox. I
               | don't think it's unreasonable to think that this will
               | continue happening. If you do, then let's agree to
               | disagree.
               | 
               | > but you are advocating for basically a free for all,
               | and we've seen how that works.
               | 
               | I'm not advocating for a "free for all." I'm advocating
               | for a "free for the knowledgeable & responsible." I'm
               | advocating for informed consent in computing. We've been
               | moving away from that, more so because of greed than
               | goodwill.
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | > Don't they have a vetting process for extensions?
               | 
               | No.
               | 
               | > Even if they don't, you, the (power)user should be able
               | to manually turn on whatever you want, should you so
               | desire.
               | 
               | It's not as simple as that. As long as it is _possible_
               | for extensions to have no-holds-barred access to your
               | browser then they 'll make that a condition of use, and
               | unsophisticated users (approximately everyone) will just
               | say "eh ok".
               | 
               | Browser extensions are a particularly dangerous case
               | because they auto-update by default. It is very common
               | for popular extensions to get sold to bad actors who then
               | update them to inject ads into everything you view, or
               | worse.
               | 
               | If you make it _impossible_ for extensions to do that,
               | then they can no longer make it a condition of
               | installation.
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | > It's not as simple as that. As long as it is possible
               | for extensions to have no-holds-barred access to your
               | browser then they'll make that a condition of use, and
               | unsophisticated users (approximately everyone) will just
               | say "eh ok".
               | 
               | Then make it complicated enough so the user has to click
               | through several screens, type in that they know what
               | they're doing and be warned that if extension/website X
               | asks them to do Y, they're getting f'd and should stop.
               | Beyond that, it's their fault.
               | 
               | Why can't we treat browsers like we used to treat PCs?
               | Why do we have to have to make them so "safe" like we did
               | with phones? Tons of scams happen on phones now, so it
               | didn't quite work out, but we still gave up a lot.
               | 
               | Personally, I'm rarely a Chrome user. I'm most afraid of
               | stuff not working in non-Chromium browsers, though.
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | > Then make it complicated enough so the user has to
               | click through several screens, type in that they know
               | what they're doing and be warned that if
               | extension/website X asks them to do Y, they're getting
               | f'd and should stop. Beyond that, it's their fault.
               | 
               | Yeah I mean... that's just an arms race. You now have to
               | type "allow pasting" into the dev console to paste
               | Javascript there. Guess why.
               | 
               | Browsers can't ever win that race. Malicious extensions
               | will just say "go to settings and blah blah blah".
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | > You now have to type "allow pasting" into the dev
               | console to paste Javascript there. Guess why.
               | 
               | Would you be content with Chrome (hypothetically) taking
               | away the console instead? Your average user has no
               | business using it anyway.
               | 
               | > Browsers can't ever win that race. Malicious extensions
               | will just say "go to settings and blah blah blah".
               | 
               | You're absolutely right, they can't win the race. People
               | have been plugging holes in software for decades and
               | malware still hasn't been defeated. Taking features away
               | just to plug more holes instead of restricting them
               | doesn't seem right to me. One could argue (I haven't
               | looked this up, though) that even more users fall victims
               | to malware in spite of today's "locked" browsers (and
               | phones) simply because there's an ever increasing number
               | of people online. A lot of that malware is being spread
               | through misleading ads and malicious code that uBO
               | blocks.
               | 
               | With uBO vanishing, a lot of users will be left without
               | an adblocker. Those who aren't tech-savvy enough won't
               | know what to install instead (eg uBL). They'll go on
               | browsing unprotected. Google will see a spike in ad
               | revenue and will be pleased. They have no real interest
               | in blocking scammy ads.
        
               | Pikamander2 wrote:
               | On the off chance that Google is truly benevolent and was
               | just worried about users' security, then they could have
               | easily hidden the required network-reading functionality
               | behind a flag or "developer mode", or only allowed it for
               | a small set of manually-audited extensions like uBlock
               | Origin.
               | 
               | The fact that they provided absolutely none of these
               | alternatives isn't a coincidence. Google is a for-profit
               | company with 300+ billion of annual revenue, a giant
               | chunk of which comes from their advertisement services.
               | It's a blatant conflict of interest and there's no good
               | reason to believe that they're acting in good faith here.
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | If they really were concerned about user security, they'd
               | do a better job blocking scammy & misleading ads instead.
               | uBO basically _saves_ users from installing dubious
               | Chrome extensions and other malware only because they
               | show up as ads or other annoyances.
        
             | tedunangst wrote:
             | Do you think Firefox should let me install an unsigned
             | extension?
        
               | pmdr wrote:
               | Absolutely. I have no idea if their store requires
               | signing, but in any case, I think you should be able to
               | sideload your own extensions after being lectured on how
               | it might be dangerous. I'm not saying it should be easy,
               | though.
        
         | redox99 wrote:
         | It's just a matter of time. Now that anti adblocks are way more
         | effective, they'll become common.
        
           | jbverschoor wrote:
           | LLM/AI had perfect timing
        
             | pmdr wrote:
             | Perfect timing to steal all content and then flood the web
             | with slop making me want to spend less time online
             | altogether.
        
         | naet wrote:
         | I saw significant difference using the Lite version, enough
         | that I switched to Firefox with Origin instead. I expected it
         | to be good enough and was surprised to see the difference.
        
           | duffyjp wrote:
           | Same. I use the element picker tool all the time to rid the
           | web of crap I don't care about. Example:
           | whatever_class:has-text(/YouTube Shorts/)
           | 
           | On Android you can even do this on your phone in Firefox. The
           | UI is a bit tricky on such a small device, but it's so worth
           | it. I went so far as to uninstall Chrome (well, disable it)
           | on my Android.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | Does "Click to Remove Element" not work for you?
             | 
             | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/click-to-remove-
             | ele...
             | 
             | For whatever reason, the UBOL creator chose not to include
             | zapper/picker in order to make it as "lite" as possible. It
             | wasn't a Manifest v3 thing, as they've explained.
             | 
             | I have no problem with using a separate extension for
             | zapping.
        
               | duffyjp wrote:
               | I was not aware of this extension, thanks for pointing it
               | out.
        
         | MattSayar wrote:
         | My YouTube ad-blocking experience with uOL looks like a
         | black/muted screen for 30s until the real video starts playing.
         | No "Skip" button appears. I disabled the extension for YouTube
         | so I can at least skip the video after 5s. Is it better for
         | everyone else?
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Are you using the "complete" filtering mode?
           | 
           | For certain sites, you need to click the extension and change
           | it from "basic" to "complete". This seems to be a performance
           | thing, so it's not doing slower more complete adblocking on
           | sites that don't need it. I've only had to do it on a couple
           | of sites.
        
             | MattSayar wrote:
             | I am now, and that works great. Thanks!
        
       | haswell wrote:
       | After 10+ years as a primary browser, I've been 100% off of
       | Chrome for about 1.5 years now as part of a broader effort to de-
       | Google my life, and things have been going well.
       | 
       | It's interesting to notice how much my internal feelings have
       | shifted over the years. There have been a few rare occasions
       | where I had to use a Chromium-based browser, and I felt the same
       | "ick" I used to feel when forced to use Internet Explorer for
       | some reason.
       | 
       | Come to the Firefox (and variant) side. The water is warm.
        
         | BuckRogers wrote:
         | > _The water is warm._
         | 
         | Mostly because they're peeing in the pool. Mozilla deleted
         | their promise to never sell its users' personal data.
        
           | haswell wrote:
           | This is why I mentioned (and variants). While I'm unhappy
           | with the Mozilla situation, Firefox is still a significantly
           | better option than Chrome at this point, and the various
           | forks address any concerns with their privacy policy.
           | 
           | One can even self-host their own sync server if so inclined.
        
         | alluro2 wrote:
         | You've voiced my sentiment exactly. I really wish Firefox was
         | more at the forefront of innovation and development, and
         | there's a lot to criticise Mozilla for, but I wouldn't change
         | it back for Chromium for anything.
         | 
         | I have a completely custom minimal layout with address bar and
         | tabs at the bottom, all the extensions I need, and I don't
         | notice the performance or compatibility differences almost
         | ever, with few rare exceptions. I feel it much more as "mine",
         | and it's a joy to use.
        
       | eYrKEC2 wrote:
       | Brave, fork of Chrome. https://brave.com/
       | 
       | Ignore the crypto; enjoy the integrated ad-blocking.
       | 
       | Most seamless ad-blocking I've ever experienced.
        
         | phytographer wrote:
         | Amen
        
         | haarolean wrote:
         | Yeah, ignore the crypto and tons of other stuff about phoning
         | home or doing malicious 'oopsies' things.
        
           | mubou wrote:
           | For the unaware: https://old.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/1
           | j1pq7b/list_of_b...
        
       | system2 wrote:
       | If I owned Mozilla I'd be blasting commercials full-force about
       | this until all my marketing budget runs out.
        
         | MattTheRealOne wrote:
         | Instead, they create a Terms of Use giving them rights to your
         | data and remove the promise not to sell personal data. I love
         | Firefox, but Mozilla either does not understand their users or
         | just loves shooting themselves in the foot. Every time I think
         | they have learned their lesson, they make another stupid
         | decision.
        
       | busymom0 wrote:
       | It's funny how on Safari, the webstore link shows a message:
       | 
       | > Switch to Chrome to install extensions and themes
        
       | imroot wrote:
       | I've eliminated Chrome from my personal systems when uBO stopped
       | working. Blocking v2 manifests also broke a few extensions that
       | were being developed for my day job: they've spent the last few
       | weeks working on Firefox extensions and are almost at the point
       | where they're getting ready to wipe Chrome from our corporate
       | machines.
        
         | caminante wrote:
         | Try uBO Lite [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-
         | as...
        
       | caseyy wrote:
       | The new uBlock Origin Lite is compatible with Manifest v3 and has
       | the featured flag on the Chrome Web Store:
       | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin-lite/...
        
         | croes wrote:
         | But is less capable than uBlock origin.
        
           | caminante wrote:
           | Not really.
           | 
           | 90% of users won't notice a difference.
           | 
           | Here's the feature diff. [0]
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-
           | home/wiki/Frequently-as...
        
             | dhrm1k wrote:
             | i mean what's the breaking point? why is ublock no longer
             | in the store whole the lite is?
        
               | croes wrote:
               | ublock is manifest v2, lite is v3.
               | 
               | Manifest v3 removed access to certain APIs that where
               | used to alter the websites to block ads
        
             | FergusArgyll wrote:
             | I really really miss Zapper Mode
        
             | ngomez wrote:
             | I've been trying uBO Lite myself for a few months, and
             | anyone who uses YouTube will absolutely notice that it's
             | worse at blocking. Lite tends to delay playback at the
             | start of a video for as long as the blocked ads would've
             | been, making the site feel slower, and once in a while an
             | ad will slip past the blocker anyway.
        
               | nilslindemann wrote:
               | I am not so sure if that is the light version. In my
               | (outdated) Ungoogled Chromium which still has classic
               | uBlock, YouTube videos also have delays or do stop
               | playing completely after a few seconds. So I have
               | switched to the FreeTube software to watch YouTube
               | videos. I can recommend that.
        
               | TiredOfLife wrote:
               | I have used Youtube and uBlock Origin lite for the past
               | couple of months and have not noticed that. Are you using
               | the complete filtering mode?
        
               | kennysoona wrote:
               | Just use Freetube to browse Youtube. It's a better
               | experience in every respect.
        
             | orphea wrote:
             | > Not really.
             | 
             | Straight from the FAQ you linked:                 In
             | general, uBOL will be less effective at dealing with
             | websites using anti-content blocker or minimizing website
             | breakage.
             | 
             | Sooo... yes really?
        
               | caseyy wrote:
               | Yes pedantically, not really. :)
        
             | pmdr wrote:
             | It would be nice if uBO automatically got replaced with uBL
             | instead of requiring users to manually install it. A lot of
             | users who might've had uBO installed by someone else won't
             | know how or won't care enough to do it.
        
           | AstralSerenity wrote:
           | Capable enough for most users, however I made the jump as it
           | no longer fit my needs.
        
           | noname120 wrote:
           | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/Frequently-
           | as...
        
             | lelandbatey wrote:
             | Wow, the big one to my eyes is the 'removeparam=' which
             | allowed uBlock to strip out parameters (e.g. tracking
             | parameters) from the request, allowing you to visit e.g.
             | affiliate links without being tracked as coming from a
             | specific affiliate (if the affiliate info was in the query
             | params at least). Stuff like that is really amazing, I'm
             | glad that here on FireFox we've still got the full uBlock
             | Origin.
        
               | Beijinger wrote:
               | I would have said, use ClearURLs, but it is blocked too: 
               | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/clearurls/lckanj
               | gmi...
               | 
               | Socialfixer won't work anymore too.
        
           | creato wrote:
           | And also requires far less intrusive permissions.
        
         | mrkramer wrote:
         | Lite version works for me the same as the original. Blocks
         | majority of ads.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | Slippery slope corporate apologism.
           | 
           | It's like a corporation shrinking the package size of your
           | food by 10%, keeping the price the same and then claiming you
           | still get the "majority" of the food.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | Or just accurately describing reality?
             | 
             | UBOL is still blocking all the ads for me. It hasn't gone
             | from 100% to 90%. It's still at 100%.
        
             | mrkramer wrote:
             | Antisthenes I appreciate your "cynical" response but what I
             | meant is I didn't yet notice any degradation of service
             | compared to the original uBlock Origin.
        
       | ltbarcly3 wrote:
       | I switched to firefox a few months ago because of this. However,
       | I just switched back last week. Overall firefox is a better
       | browser. The ability to screenshot in the browser is so useful
       | and I used it 10x per day, not having it in chrome is a real
       | pain.
       | 
       | But.. nobody tests on it anymore I think. Lots of popular sites
       | are very slow and laggy with it, including sites I need for work.
       | I don't think this is because of inferior technology, I think I
       | just think nobody spends the time to make sure things work well
       | on firefox. I could split-brain and use chrome for github and
       | some other stuff but that is such a pain when clicking links.
       | 
       | The other issue is I think firefox support will only get worse.
       | Their market share is back to where it was in IE6 days and
       | dropping.
        
         | ltbarcly3 wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I'm being brigaded haha, why would this comment
         | get downmodded?
        
           | phendrenad2 wrote:
           | We really need a Slashdot-style meta-moderation system.
           | Certain things always get brigaded, especially anything about
           | the relative merits of browsers. It would be nice to flag
           | people who only show up to downvote and reduce their impact.
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | Will uBlock Origin Lite[1] a good alternative to uBlock Origin?
       | It is one of the alternatives recommended by the uBlock Origin
       | tea.
       | 
       | [1] https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ublock-origin-
       | lite/...
        
       | hsuduebc2 wrote:
       | "Don't be evil"
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
        
       | whatamidoingyo wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | vlod wrote:
       | Invitation to come join the Firefox side. We have cookies!
        
       | wistlo wrote:
       | When I click the link for this story, Edge (stop laughing.
       | Please.) pops up "uBlock Origin works on Microsoft Edge." (It's
       | already there, Edge, but thank you).
       | 
       | Edge is based on Chromium, so would that mean this breakage will
       | eventually apply to Edge as the Manifest changes, uhm, manifest
       | to Chromium-based products? Or is this just a Google Chrome
       | thing?
       | 
       | FWIW I keep Firefox around but I have to admit I like Edge's
       | smooth sync of bookmarks and settings across machines and even
       | different platforms. I switched about two years ago when Edge was
       | clearly faster and lighter. It's no longer as lightweight and
       | there are slowly accumulating annoyances coming mostly from some
       | Microsoft Clippy-esque attempts to make some tasks "easier"
       | (mostly via Copilot) but I still prefer it to Firefox. My former
       | employer/retiree benefits site, for example, won't open at all in
       | Firefox. I've considered other Chromium based browsers like Brave
       | but haven't (yet) been sufficiently motivated to switch. (Give
       | Microsoft some time, I expect they'll eshit Edge eventually).
        
         | MattTheRealOne wrote:
         | Many Chromium-based browsers will keep Manifest v2 support for
         | a while. But eventually the upstream Chromium codebase will
         | diverge enough that it becomes too much work to keep it and
         | they will be forced to drop it as well.
        
           | agosta wrote:
           | The manifest situation simply doesn't apply to Brave in
           | relation to adblockers specifically. That is, Brave will
           | function like uBlock without having to install uBlock as an
           | extension - that's kinda the whole point of Brave (blocking
           | ads / making them opt in only). That said, it is true
           | extensions one may use that are affected by the manifest
           | version change may be affected in Brave.
        
             | haarolean wrote:
             | Hey there, nice shilling for brave. 1 thread, 4 comments!
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | It's still working on edge, but I wonder how long that will last.
        
       | rednafi wrote:
       | Firefox sucks and doesn't work for me. Maybe I will give Brave
       | with ublock a try.
        
         | agosta wrote:
         | You don't need uBlock installed on Brave. Brave basically is
         | uBlock (if uBlock where a browser).
        
       | NoahZuniga wrote:
       | It's been like this for quite a while already
        
       | vemv wrote:
       | What's the best next choice if I don't want to move away from a
       | Chrome-like experience?
       | 
       | (Old habits die hard)
       | 
       | There's https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium
       | - is it a sound choice nowadays?
        
       | egurns wrote:
       | At the time of writing this comment, 53 minutes after OP, I am
       | able to install- and use- uBlock Origin from the Chrome Web
       | Store. What am I missing?
        
       | gloosx wrote:
       | I've been personally enjoying Ghostery extension for the past
       | year, block all ads, youtube, any HTML5 player, banners, popups -
       | really clean and tidy browsing experience.
       | 
       | It didn't even catch any hype regarding this manifest support
       | issue uBlock origin has, and it keeps silently working good
       | without any interruptions, I wonder why is that?
        
         | noname120 wrote:
         | Because Ghostery belongs to an analytics company that sells
         | your data so they are working round the clock to keep it
         | running
        
           | yard2010 wrote:
           | Honest question - let's say you can't physically experience
           | ads. Why do you care about your data being sold? This is a
           | problem only if you can see ads, but remember, you can't.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | The data can be used for more than ads - it can be used to
             | adjust prices, etc.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | Do no evil!
        
       | byearthithatius wrote:
       | This is why I run Firefox and will continue to do so. Google
       | Chrome sucks I only have to to test stuff.
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | What's frustrating to me is how predictable all this is if you
       | analyze the world with a materialist understanding.
       | 
       | To boil it down, the most dominant philosophy, whether peole know
       | it or not, is idealism. In idealism, people, nations,
       | corporations, etc have some inherent quality beyond their
       | physical make up. It's almost spiritual in that way. Even the
       | concept of a soul is an idealist position. It's largely a
       | circular argument that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
       | 
       | So, the USA on the world stage is the good guy because we are the
       | good guys, regardless of our actions or the consequences thereof.
       | So an awful lot of effort is spent to label certain actors as
       | "good" or "bad" to suit some objective. Superhero movies and a
       | perfect example of idealism and it's no coincidence that they've
       | had a renaissance since 9/11.
       | 
       | Materialism is simply the view that the physical world is all
       | there is. The consequence of this is that we affect the material
       | world and it affects us. There are no inherent qualities like
       | being "good" or "bad". Instead, those are simply labels you apply
       | to the actions of an entity.
       | 
       | My point here is that for years Google pushed this good guy
       | narrative (ie "don't be evil") but any materialist understands
       | that Google is a corporation so ultimately will act like any
       | other corporation.
       | 
       | Google makes money selling ads. Ad blockers affect Google's
       | bottom line. The relentless pursuit of increasing profits means
       | fighting ad blockers was always an inevitability. Nobody should
       | be surprised by that.
       | 
       | Now some will point to Google's control of Chrome as an antitrust
       | issue and it probably is but that misses the point. A corporation
       | that solely owns Chrome will ultimately act in a user-hostile way
       | too because that's what corporations do.
       | 
       | The only long-term successful model for something like Chrome is
       | to be something like the Wikimedia Foundation. The profit motive
       | will always ultimately destroy it otherwise. If you can even find
       | a business model for a browser, which I have serious doubts
       | about.
       | 
       | A materialist knows all this because of how the workers relate to
       | the means of production. A collective (which Wikimedia Foundation
       | is, basically) is where the workers own the means of production.
       | A corporation introduces capital owners whose interests are in
       | direct opposition to that of the users.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Surprising to see that happen just as Google is entering an
       | antitrust breakup.
        
       | rmoriz wrote:
       | Switched to Firefox a year ago, no regrets. Only flashing devices
       | via webserial (Meshtastic etc) is missing for me.
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | uBlock Origin still works in Firefox.
       | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin...
       | 
       | And you can, I believe, still just modify your hosts table to
       | block out ads in Chrome. https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts
       | 
       | Or your router's DNS using something like NextDNS.
       | https://nextdns.io/
       | 
       | Ads suck. Support content where you can, but even when you pay
       | they still serve ads / tracking scripts. So fuck 'em. Block all
       | the ads.
        
       | vezycash wrote:
       | _Major DOJ Antitrust Cases_
       | 
       | 1. United States v. Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey (1911)
       | - Duration: 7 years (1904-1911)               - Outcome: Standard
       | Oil was ruled an illegal monopoly and broken up into 34
       | companies.
       | 
       | 2. United States v. Microsoft Corp. (1998)                  -
       | Duration: 4 years (1998-2002)               - Outcome: Initially
       | ordered to split, but after appeals, Microsoft avoided a breakup
       | and instead agreed to business restrictions.
       | 
       | 3. United States v. AT&T (Bell System) (1982)                  -
       | Duration: 8 years (1974-1982)               - Outcome: AT&T
       | agreed to a settlement, leading to the 1984 breakup into seven
       | "Baby Bells" to increase competition.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | And the DOJ is still holding that Google must break up
        
       | odieldomanie wrote:
       | On Firefox, I use a uBlock Origin script to block Twitch ads.
       | (Normal filters don't work on Twitch.) Is it possible to block
       | Twitch ads with uBO-Lite as well?
        
         | intermerda wrote:
         | Do you mind sharing which uBlock Origin script you use for
         | blocking ads on Twitch? I tried one a while ago but didn't get
         | it to work.
        
       | BuckRogers wrote:
       | I moved to Adguard years ago when I found that uBlock Origin Lite
       | doesn't support custom filter lists. If Adguard can support that
       | on MV3 then uBlock Origin is artificially gimping uBOL on
       | Edge/Chrome.
        
       | bradgessler wrote:
       | Stop using Chrome.
        
       | lousken wrote:
       | This was to be expected, however I am curious if Vivaldi, Brave
       | and others will make their own webstore which will have plugins
       | like ublock origin, and how long till Mozilla follows suit.
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | Google aggressively makes it hard for Chromium derivatives to
         | not conform to Google's engineering choices.
         | 
         | They could try and keep manifestv2 support for a while, but
         | they will have an increasingly large and hard to support patch
         | se to make manifestv2 work still.
        
           | IvanAchlaqullah wrote:
           | Indeed. When I tried to add LibRedirect (another extensions
           | that are not possible under Manifest v3) to Vivaldi, DNS over
           | HTTPS suddenly stopped working.
           | 
           | After checking the settings page, the settings to turn it on
           | are completely disabled. Turn out this is one of few trap in
           | all Chromioum browser that are hardcoded by Google.
           | 
           | Well after searching, you need to edit registry (yikes!) and
           | add "DnsOverHttpsMode" and set it to "safe". Problem solved,
           | right?
           | 
           | NO!!! Do that and suddenly your browser wouldn't load any
           | page at all! Turn out you also need to set
           | "DnsOverHttpsTemplates" too.
           | 
           | It just so happen, somehow, there is no documentation that
           | mention this in "....Mode" help page.
           | 
           | Surely Google is not being evil in here, right? Right?
        
         | johnisgood wrote:
         | Time to reply to https://forum.vivaldi.net/topic/91160/vivaldi-
         | s-own-extensio... or something.
        
       | johnisgood wrote:
       | Same with uMatrix:
       | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/umatrix/ogfcmafjalg...
        
       | catigula wrote:
       | We have to put some of this on Firefox for failing to remain
       | competitive in the engineering arena.
       | 
       | If it's too expensive to develop a viable alternative to
       | chromium, just say that.
       | 
       | The Firefox that has been trundling along for years is really
       | just an excuse to keep the chromium monopoly afloat.
        
       | dmead wrote:
       | Makes me happy I never used chrome.
        
       | zfg wrote:
       | uBlock Origin always worked best in Firefox anyhow:
       | 
       | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-b...
        
       | tech234a wrote:
       | This removal can be bypassed until June (edit: or possibly even
       | August) by changing some flags or setting enterprise policies:
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1itw1bz/end_o...
        
       | Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
       | How long do you reckon before firefox/mozilla follow suit? Weeks?
       | Months? Years? A year is my guess.
        
       | kingstoned wrote:
       | Meanwhile scam cookie stuffing extensions like Honey are
       | 'featured'
        
       | deadbabe wrote:
       | Use Brave, it's been many years and people have few complaints.
        
       | bigbuppo wrote:
       | Monopolists gonna use every anti-competitive tactic in the book
       | to protect their racket.
        
       | JimmaDaRustla wrote:
       | How long until other chromium browsers follow suit? I'm currently
       | using Edge.
       | 
       | I also wonder when someone one will "hack" chromium to run
       | whatever extensions they want - I could build my own extension,
       | or build uBlock Origin from the source (if available) and execute
       | the extension regardless of the store.
        
         | pmdr wrote:
         | A lot of Chromium browsers use Google's extension store, so
         | even if they're not as strict about it now, you won't be able
         | to install it anyway.
        
       | Deprogrammer9 wrote:
       | sideload it! mine is working fine still.
        
       | buyucu wrote:
       | the internet is unusable without uBlock origin. I would never use
       | a browser that did not support uBlock.
        
       | sorenKaram wrote:
       | This happened to me so I just switched over to Adblock Plus.
       | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/adblock-plus-free-a...
       | 
       | AddBlock is still available. I was wondering if there is some
       | issue with the extension itself that it got flagged? Maybe an
       | update to the codebase would make the extension installe-able
       | again?
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | Wasn't Adblock Plus the plugin to be shunned because they
         | allowed certain ads as long as the advertisers paid them money?
         | I remember a scandal like that a few years ago, but I might be
         | mistaken since there are many similarly named plugins.
         | 
         | uBlock Origin didn't have this problem, which is why it got
         | recommended so much.
        
           | Chaosvex wrote:
           | You're not mistaken. They had a default enabled whitelist of
           | advertisers that were paying them to be there. Basically a
           | racket.
        
       | m4rtink wrote:
       | So they really want to get broken up due to shady advertising
       | deals. :-)
        
       | pete1302 wrote:
       | I was here, I saw the crime
        
         | pmdr wrote:
         | The crime has been years in the making, this is just burning
         | the body.
        
       | kenanfyi wrote:
       | As a person who switched constantly between browsers (except
       | Chrome, never used it after 2015) in the past 10+ years, I can
       | confirm that realigning the habits are not that difficult. Learn
       | to use the web, not the tool to browse it.
       | 
       | So, switch to something which has privacy respecting attitude or
       | at least tries to have it and ditch everything who does not. It
       | is not just the browser itself, but also the services and tools
       | that you use to do your job: browsing. After some time, you will
       | realize how horrible browsing the web with Chrome was in this
       | respect and how easy it is to just browse the web without a
       | bloated piece of advertising machine.
        
       | loughnane wrote:
       | I desperately want to pay for a browser that caters to me
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | Google is betting hundreds of billions of dollars against you
         | being able to do that.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | On kinda related news: Firefox don't allow you to set the default
       | homepage. What's up with that?
        
         | atum47 wrote:
         | I've moved from chrome to ff because of ublock extension, but I
         | also have an app that remembers of stuff set as my default
         | homepage, the other day I realized that ff don't allow for a
         | custom home page. That why I left the comment above, I think
         | they are somewhat related
        
       | nine_zeros wrote:
       | Use Brave browser - both on phones and laptops. The ad-free
       | experience will change your perspective on what internet looks
       | like. You won't miss Google.
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | It's amazing that every post about Brave gets downvoted. I wish
         | the downvoters would explain why they're doing this, but I
         | guess they aren't very... brave.
        
       | aerhardt wrote:
       | I have it installed on Arc and it still works, I guess that's
       | expected but it will degrade soon? I love Arc but I'd better not
       | see an ad or that will be reason to jump ship. I pay for quite a
       | few web services I like (eg, Youtube) but I'd drop a bollock if I
       | saw a display ad on the open web.
        
       | bryanhogan wrote:
       | I have moved to Firefox since the announcements that Chrome won't
       | allow must have extensions such as uBlock. That Firefox allows
       | extensions both on desktop and mobile is great.
       | 
       | But there are some things that I miss from Chrome, especially for
       | web development. In Chrome it is possible to adjust the CSS of
       | grid and flex containers within the developer window, which can
       | be helpful. Firefox and Firefox Developer Edition don't have
       | this. Firefox also seems to sometimes have problems with
       | reloading a page when it is changed during development, whereas
       | in Chrome this always was instant. Then there are some small
       | feature and UI differences, like the reading-mode on Firefox is
       | nice, but the UI of Chrome feels just a bit nicer.
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | Now you are a real developer.
        
         | moritonal wrote:
         | I have Firefox for normal use and then Chrome for Web
         | development. Simple enough.
        
       | anjel wrote:
       | Just curious, has google solved the ads-as-malware-vector of
       | infection?
        
       | ein0p wrote:
       | Uh, do Brave users need to sideload now? What about updates? Any
       | official guidance from Brave on this?
        
         | antonok wrote:
         | uBlock Origin is available from brave://settings/extensions/v2;
         | see https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/
        
       | nilslindemann wrote:
       | For the moment I can still see the "Add to Chrome"-Button on that
       | page in Ungoogled Chromium :)
        
       | cratermoon wrote:
       | But hey! We got command and commandfor in HTML! Progress,
       | amirite?
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | The only chrome browser I'm using is on a cheap chromebook I
       | bought.
       | 
       | It looks like I could turn on the linux vm and run firefox, but
       | it "only" has a 16GB ssd of which like 12GB is "system space"
       | (ridiculous) and I only have 1GB left which isn't enough to
       | enable the linux dev environment.
       | 
       | I could look into seeing if I can get native linux on the
       | hardware, but it's probably not worth the time and trouble for
       | it.
        
       | grimblee wrote:
       | Just stop using chrome, fight the monopoly, don't be a sheep.
       | It's inconvenient ? Convenience is a trap, stop giving away your
       | freedom and agency for convenience.
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | This. The fact that so called "hackers" would be using Chrome
         | is the reason why the world is shit and tech is stagnant. They
         | keep using Chrome and writing Javascript.
        
       | raajg wrote:
       | Time to set up Pi-Hole on my Rapsberry Pi 4
       | 
       | https://pi-hole.net/
        
       | bhrlady wrote:
       | There are only two business models on the web: either you pay for
       | your browser, or someone else does. This is why Orion is entirely
       | user-funded, and can continue serving users by prioritizing
       | privacy, control, and features like powerful, built-in ad-
       | blocking. Not third party deals, ads, or any other incentive to
       | corrupt the user experience and overall quality.
       | 
       | (Disclosure, I work for Kagi, creator of the Orion browser.)
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | There are only two business models on the web: either you pay
         | for your content, or someone else does. And that someone is
         | usually advertisers. Blocking ads while consuming content
         | upsets that business model. That's why Brave Browser's BAT is a
         | fundamentally good idea marred by terrible execution. On the
         | other hand I do not believe built-in ad-blocking in the browser
         | can ever become mainstream for that same reason.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | An interesting day on which to impose this restriction, given:
       | 
       | "DOJ: Google must sell Chrome, Android could be next"
       | 
       | <https://arstechnica.com/google/2025/03/doj-google-must-sell-...>
       | 
       | HN discussion: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43323485>
        
       | m4r1k wrote:
       | Today marks my last day as a Chrome user. And fellas I encourage
       | y'all to switch away from Chrome
        
       | codedokode wrote:
       | Note that Google Chrome contains features that allow sharing your
       | interests with advertisers and "measuring" ads performance. It
       | looks more and more as ad browsing client rather than a web
       | browser: https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/13355898
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | If are unfortunate enough to still use Chrome, please read:
       | 
       | https://contrachrome.com/
        
       | exiguus wrote:
       | Consider discontinuing the use of Google, AWS/Amazon, X (formerly
       | Twitter), Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and ChatGPT if you value
       | freedom. There are numerous excellent alternatives available.
        
         | mulakosag wrote:
         | Good luck with AWS. You need to stop using the internet. Are
         | you going to check IP address of each website's web server you
         | visit?
        
         | isaachinman wrote:
         | Out of the loop. What's the story with WhatsApp? Backdoors?
        
       | benkaiser wrote:
       | As a developer, the one feature I really love in Chrome is PWAs.
       | But Firefox abandoned PWA support years ago, and seems to have no
       | appetite for adding PWAs back[1]. Maybe I'll just have to split
       | my usage across PWAs in Chrome (since I trust those apps/websites
       | anyway) and Firefox for general browsing.
       | 
       | [1] https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/bring-back-pwa-
       | progress...
        
       | leke wrote:
       | How is it still running on Brave then?
        
         | antonok wrote:
         | https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/
        
       | firebot wrote:
       | works fine here, though it says it "may soon no longer be
       | supported"
       | 
       | Edge store doesn't even mention that, in fact it's featured.
       | 
       | I switched to edge canary on my phone because the dev options
       | allow you to install extensions by id/crx, which I've used to get
       | ublock origin, though it crashes sometimes, and doesn't work when
       | you reload the whole browser, until you refresh the page or
       | manually reactivate the extension....
        
       | 5etho wrote:
       | how about vivaldi? original developers from Opera? I totally
       | forgot about it in last 5 years, ayone using it?
        
       | sotix wrote:
       | This is the death of the hacker. We have allowed new heights of
       | power and unchecked control decide they know better than us. We
       | are no longer allowed or trusted to make choices in our best
       | interests. Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary,
       | pointing to Apple and Mozilla, as if that doesn't make this
       | change any less devastating. It was a great run.
       | 
       | The silver lining is it can be the birth of a new generation of
       | hackers. This generation's version of the printer inspiring those
       | who refuse to accept the hostile hand they've been dealt. Tech
       | doesn't have to be this way. You don't have to accept these
       | changes. Rebel! Start hacking away. Don't join these companies.
       | Found new ones that prioritize valuing users first forever. It's
       | a difficult task. But all difficult tasks we've solved were.
        
         | pmdr wrote:
         | > Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary
         | 
         | Sadly, on HN, of all places...
        
       | Funes- wrote:
       | Just use Brave if you can't be bothered to use some extremely
       | ethical alternative that's harder to set up. It blocks
       | _everything_ out of the box. Now, if you do worry about
       | supporting more ethical browsers, try qutebrowser (with some
       | greasemonkey scripts added in).
        
         | niedzielski wrote:
         | Brave has a history of very concerning behavior: https://en.wik
         | ipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)#Controvers....
        
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