[HN Gopher] Magnesium Self-Experiments
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Magnesium Self-Experiments
        
       Author : yamrzou
       Score  : 165 points
       Date   : 2025-03-09 05:44 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gwern.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gwern.net)
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B and so
       | increasingly easy to get excess B12. Australian formulations of
       | magnesium sold by Swisse don't have B. The same branding in HK
       | does. I wrote to them about it, interesting response: "check the
       | therapeutic goods administration site for canonical ingredients
       | we don't commit to labelling the jar" they do list the neutral
       | filler and Mg they just don't say "no B12"
       | 
       | B is typically included for synergistic uptake reasons I believe.
       | 
       | Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy. Considering you take Mg to
       | get rid of muscle cramps (pain, conducted by nerves), a bit
       | ironic. It's increasingly common in Australia now.
       | 
       | Excess Mg is unlikely. I think the body chucks it out in Urine
       | pretty rapidly. I still take it, the cramps after sport return
       | within a few months when I stop. I have a fruit and veg rich
       | diet, I get plenty of natural Mg and K which is also good for
       | muscle cramps. Age related insufficiency I suspect (63)
       | malabsorption comes with age.
        
         | chinathrow wrote:
         | My doc said there is no scientific proof that Mg works against
         | cramps. Is that true?
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | I'd always believe a doctor over anonymous internet
           | experiences. If your doctor thinks it's not helpful, follow
           | their advice. I found my cramps stopped, but anecdata is not
           | evidence.
        
             | askvictor wrote:
             | While _on the whole_ I would side with doctors over random
             | people on the Internet, I've had a number of cases where
             | the doctor has been outright wrong, whether misdiagnosis,
             | or not being up to date with current research.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | The doctor didn't say it doesn't work. Just that it's not
             | scientific.
             | 
             | But if your lived experience says it works, it doesn't
             | really need to have scientific evidence.
             | 
             | The real question is if there is evidence that relevant
             | doesea of magnesium supplements are harmful, and if so, how
             | those harms compare to the cramps you're experiencing.
             | 
             | There's all sorts of unscientific stuff out there, some of
             | which is harmful. But if it's not harmful, it's worth
             | trying.
             | 
             | If you get frequent cramps and you don't want to try
             | magnesium supplements, you could try going out of your way
             | to eat more foods that are known to be high in magnesium,
             | most of which are generally considered healthy and there
             | you go; choosing to eat a bit more leafy greens doesn't
             | feel risky unless you've got an alergy. Having a banana to
             | get potasium should be fine for most too, unless the fruit
             | sugar is a problem or if there's an allergy.
        
           | mantas wrote:
           | But it works for me and I know more anecdata cases.
           | 
           | Maybe it depends on technical cause of what seems to be
           | cramps. And maybe it helps indirectly by helping some other
           | process in the body. But in ny experience there's direct
           | correlation between magnesium intake and cramps and nail
           | health.
           | 
           | I've a feeling genetics may be involved since my kid also has
           | similar tendencies. And doctor we went to for his night
           | cramps did suggest magnesium which worked. So whether there's
           | research or not, doctors do suggest it and it does seem to
           | help at least in some cases.
        
           | haltcatchfire wrote:
           | As always with supplements, a deficiency might cause the
           | issue (cramps in this case) and the supplement gets you back
           | to normal levels, preventing cramps. If you're experiencing
           | cramps but don't have a magnesium deficiency, taking
           | magnesium supplements won't make the cramps go away.
        
           | oweiler wrote:
           | When I started running I had horrible cramps and the mg made
           | them much less severe.
           | 
           | Running for a year now, it doesn't seem to make a difference.
        
           | PeterStuer wrote:
           | From experience it does work in cases where through intensive
           | training and very high 'sweating' both from cardio training
           | and saunas you temd to lose a lot of minerals.
        
           | ddorian43 wrote:
           | Go train hard in heat/summer until you get cramps. Then get
           | electolytes to fix it in a couple of minutes.
           | 
           | Source: I can reproduce this on demand.
        
           | sschueller wrote:
           | When I have a cramp in my calf and I take mg in powder form
           | it goes away within a minute. I am also no longer able to
           | trigger a cramp which I can before taking mg. I don't think a
           | placebo would work that quick and that well.
        
           | borgdefenser wrote:
           | I mean you should take magnesium if you are deficient on a
           | blood test. If you take too much magnesium you will just get
           | diarrhea.
           | 
           | The non-blood test way would be to take magnesium until you
           | get diarrhea and then take less but that is obviously not a
           | pleasant experience.
           | 
           | I take magnesium because it is really obvious when I track
           | micro nutrients that I don't get enough in my diet. It mostly
           | depends though on how much spinach I am eating.
        
             | canucker2016 wrote:
             | Blood test may not be reliable indicator of magnesium in
             | the body.
             | 
             | from https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6316205/
             | Of clinical importance, around 0.3% of total body magnesium
             | is found in serum. Thus, total and/or ionized magnesium
             | concentrations measured in plasma or serum are not reliable
             | markers of total magnesium levels in the body; as serum
             | magnesium does not reflect the total magnesium content at
             | the tissue or organs, and is also a poor indicator of
             | intracellular magnesium content.              Emerging
             | evidence suggests that the serum magnesium/calcium quotient
             | (0.4 is optimal, 0.36-0.28 too low) is a more practical and
             | sensitive indicator of magnesium status and/or turnover,
             | than the serum magnesium level alone [19]. In chronic
             | latent magnesium deficiency, magnesium levels in the blood
             | are within a normal range, despite there being severely
             | depleted magnesium content in the tissues and bones.
             | Therefore, using magnesium levels in the blood to determine
             | total magnesium levels in the body can result in
             | underestimation of magnesium deficiency in healthy and
             | diseased populations. Recent studies have shown that
             | individuals with serum magnesium levels around 1.82 mg/dL
             | (0.75 mmol/L) are most likely to have a magnesium
             | deficiency, while those with serum magnesium level more
             | than 2.07 mg/dL (0.85 mmol/L) are most likely to have
             | adequate levels
        
           | astura wrote:
           | Magnesium deficiency causes muscle spasms and cramps. That's
           | a fact.
           | 
           | If you're experiencing muscle cramps due to low magnesium
           | then adding a supplement will almost certainly fix the
           | problem.
           | 
           | If you're experiencing muscle cramps for another reason, it
           | won't work, probably.
           | 
           | But supplements are cheap and low risk, so it's a good thing
           | to try first.
           | 
           | A more accurate statement would be "there is no scientific
           | proof that Mg works against cramps [absent a Mg deficiency]."
        
         | freedom_dev wrote:
         | Excess B12 is also very easily excreted in urine being a water-
         | soluble vitamin so it's really hard to "overdose" on
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-08/vitamin-b6-toxicity-p.
           | ..
           | 
           | I got my Bs mixed up it's Mg + B6
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | It's still hard to get a high enough dose to dangerous
             | level from other supplements. Bad b6 effects typically
             | start over 500mg/day. Usual pills of just b6 are 100mg in
             | countries that don't limit it otherwise. The reviews that
             | I've read normally described the issues as going away
             | within days of stopping.
             | 
             | I wish there was better research on this, because so far
             | only weird isolated cases make the news.
        
               | sizzle wrote:
               | Yeah I just looked mine up they are 8mg b6 how are people
               | hitting upper limits?
        
               | Havoc wrote:
               | Amazon is Full of ,,high potency" stuff cause idiots
               | think bigger number better
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | I'm willing to assume I'm non typical, but I definitely
               | had temporary nerve pain effects from a B-complex
               | supplement; I can't remember if I noticed that after the
               | first night or the second; my spouse reported nothing
               | like that though. Looking through my cabinet, looks like
               | 50mg B6 pryidoxine HCl (which seems high compared to
               | another brand I looked up and a sibling comment). Not
               | sure why I kept those, tossed it out now.
               | 
               | But I was really just wanting B1 and a bit more shopping
               | found drops (annoying) and tablets with only B1 and
               | negligble other stuff.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Yeah, that's why I mentioned "typically" - there's always
               | going to be someone processing things differently, or
               | naturally at high levels.
        
               | Projectiboga wrote:
               | And it is total, fortified foods add to the risk.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Food normally has amounts <1mg. Even fortified juices are
               | <5mg. You'd have to really try hard to make any
               | difference with them.
        
               | Klonoar wrote:
               | Vegans can actually inadvertently stumble into this: a
               | lot of tofu scramble recipes call for 2tbsp of
               | nutritional yeast, and the bottles sold by e.g Braggs in
               | America are heavily fortified.
               | 
               | Then it's also used in cheese sauces, etc - to the point
               | where it's somewhat of a meme to just add it whenever you
               | want umami. Then many vegans already take a B multi to
               | handle B12.
               | 
               | Point of all this being that this particular diet can
               | lead to overdosing on B6 without realizing it. Once I got
               | myself a non fortified Nutritional Yeast for
               | baking/cooking, I noticed changes in myself for the
               | better.
               | 
               | Obligatory "I am not a doctor and YMMV"
        
         | dhedberg wrote:
         | > Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.
         | 
         | Do you have any source for this? I can find some "it-might-be-
         | bad" studies through a quick googling, but in general the idea
         | seem to be that excess B12 is thought to be unproblematic
         | ("it's just peed out").
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | B6 not B12. My bad.
        
             | DavidPiper wrote:
             | Can confirm, overdosing on Vitamin B6 is bad. Lots of very
             | scary symptoms.
             | 
             | I accidentally poisoned myself with B6 from Magnesium
             | tablets over the course of a year:
             | https://davids.town/vitamin-b6-overdose (my levels were 38x
             | the healthy range).
             | 
             | tl;dr: Always check your Magnesium for what else the tablet
             | includes. If it contains Pyridoxine hydrochloride (i.e.
             | Vitamin B6) or another Pyridoxine compound, find one that
             | doesn't. Since then, Swisse is the only brand I've found
             | that consistently sells "pure" Magnesium tablets here in
             | Australia.
        
               | sinuhe69 wrote:
               | Definitely, excess of B6 is bad! https://www.sciencedirec
               | t.com/science/article/pii/S216183132...
        
               | Sunspark wrote:
               | B-vitamins are water soluble..
               | 
               | I take 50mg a day in a bio-available form
               | pyridoxal-5-phosphate. Consider this form instead.
               | 
               | I'm taking it because there is some genetic evidence that
               | I would benefit from doing so. No neuropathies thus far
               | but it's only been about a month and a half.
        
               | DavidPiper wrote:
               | I wasn't even aware I was ingesting B6, I was just taking
               | the tablets for the magnesium (it was one of the few with
               | the full 440mg dose I was recommended).
               | 
               | Blood tests since then have shown that my B6 levels are
               | fine with my usual diet, I don't take multivitamins or
               | supplements anymore.
               | 
               | I don't know much about B6 beyond my own experiences with
               | it, so all I can say is make sure you've discussed it
               | with your GP, and be aware of the coasting effect if you
               | do happen to develop any neuropathic symptoms:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome
        
               | Sunspark wrote:
               | I have to admit I am troubled by reading all this
               | including that it has a half-life.. I did have the
               | assumption that water soluble meant that excess was
               | eliminated out the same day as is the case with some
               | things. I had literally never heard of this toxicity
               | issue till last night. One problem in general is that
               | supplements don't really come in a "smaller size" unless
               | I guess, you get powder form instead of capsules. I will
               | have to review the genetic data I have again.
               | 
               | Genetic data is useful to know really, especially for
               | people with MTHFR mutations as many pathways get
               | affected.
        
             | mft_ wrote:
             | Maybe you should edit your original post?
        
               | ggm wrote:
               | Nope. Locked
        
             | Projectiboga wrote:
             | Both of those have od risk around daily of 250 mg B6, 250
             | mcg B12, I believe.
        
               | ivankra wrote:
               | Vitamin B6 accumulates in the blood - it has an
               | exceptionally long half-life on the order of several
               | weeks. It's not an occasional overdose you have to worry
               | about the most, but also chronic accumulation at low
               | doses (even not much above RDA levels, single digit
               | milligrams) and your blood levels - apparently there's a
               | large individual variation in its metabolism
               | (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.phanu.2020.100188)
               | 
               | UK/EU upper safety limits are at 10-12mg per day. US UL
               | of 200mg is way past due for an overhaul.
               | 
               | I personally got sick from a B complex with 40mg
               | pyridoxine after just 4 months. Developed dysautonomia
               | (not a canonical example, but still a kind of neuropathy
               | - damage to autonomic nervous system). Had random
               | tachycardia and high blood pressure flares from various
               | triggers every week, took a while to figure out what was
               | really causing it. Your typical non-neurologist GP
               | wouldn't know anything because "it's water soluble" and
               | the textbooks say neuropathy develops at 200mg+. All
               | symptoms mostly resolved after a month once I threw away
               | everything with pyridoxine. Wouldn't touch it again,
               | always on a lookout for B6 in my multis and supplements
               | now. P5P form is thought to be safer, but also got people
               | sick - look around on facebook B6 groups for more
               | anecdata.
               | 
               | No problem with B12 as far as I know. It's not a
               | neurotoxin unlike B6.
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | Maybe you mean B6, which is associated with small fiber
         | neuropathy.
         | 
         | B12 has to jump through a number of hoops before it's even
         | converted into a usable form [1].
         | 
         | I'm sure you're meaning well, but B12 deficiency is a wide
         | spread problem [2], and it's questionable that excess is worse
         | than deficiency.
         | 
         | 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19832808/#&gid=article-
         | figur...
         | 
         | 2: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7792587/
         | 
         | EDIT: After posting, I saw your other comments. Maybe you can
         | update parent.
        
           | Jarmsy wrote:
           | And one reason for taking B12 is actually to prevent
           | neuropathy.
        
             | manmal wrote:
             | Looking at the interactions in metabolism, I don't see it.
             | 
             | A low B6 diet and focus on conversion to P5P and oxidation
             | of the excess (Aldehyde Oxidase, and maybe by proxy the
             | ALDHs) is a safer bet.
        
               | Jarmsy wrote:
               | https://www.foundationforpn.org/causes/nutritional-and-
               | vitam...
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9704859/
               | 
               | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ene.14786
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | How about Epsom salt? I've never known that to have B added.
        
           | justinator wrote:
           | Don't eat epsom salt.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | Technically you can (or as a suppository). The great part
             | is that you don't need to.
        
             | zeckalpha wrote:
             | Unless you are taking it as a laxative.
        
             | genewitch wrote:
             | I've taken Epsom salt as directed on the drug facts label 3
             | times, ever, and all three times I probably avoided an
             | urgent care/clinic visit by doing so.
             | 
             | If you're ever so severely clogged up that you're
             | approaching a week without - Epsom salt will, in fact,
             | work. It works so well that I'd recommend pre/probiotic
             | foods for a couple days afterward. It completely cleans you
             | out.
             | 
             | Otherwise, I agree. You have to know why you're clogged,
             | too; if you got no clue, go see a Dr.
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | Do you mean constipated?
        
               | genewitch wrote:
               | constipation is one reason, but also just a temporary,
               | painful blockage for whatever reason. Epsom is like drano
               | for your intestines. The dosage information is on _all_
               | epsom salt packages designed to be used this way.
               | Obviously don 't ingest like, lavender scented bath salt
               | (Sitz salt, whatever)
        
             | astura wrote:
             | epsom salt absolutely can be eaten as a laxative. It has a
             | "drug facts" panels on the container with instructions.
             | 
             | It can also be added to your bathwater or used as a foot
             | soak.
        
         | qwerty456127 wrote:
         | > Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.
         | 
         | How much really is dangerously excess? How do methylcobalamin
         | vs cyanocobalamin compare in this regard? I noticed B12
         | supplements usually exceed the RDA by some orders of magnitude.
         | 
         | > Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B
         | 
         | Same problem with iron supplements. Not particularly easy to
         | find iron without folic acid. Folic acid can be very harmful
         | for people with methylation problems (an extremely widespread
         | genetic thing) who should supplement methylfolate instead.
         | Whoever feels stimulated and harder to sleep after taking a
         | folic acid pill - beware.
        
           | mint2 wrote:
           | There's a fair number of brands selling mg alone and fe
           | alone. Maybe it's hard outside the US? Or maybe places like
           | target and CVS don't carry them - those places do have
           | limited options.
        
             | chiefalchemist wrote:
             | CVS' own brand has Mg only
             | 
             | https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-magnesium-
             | glycinate-200m...
        
             | astura wrote:
             | You can walk into target, Walmart, CVS, etc and have plenty
             | of options for iron alone (which isn't widely packed with
             | other vitamins outside a multi) and magnesium alone.
        
             | aaronbaugher wrote:
             | Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen Mg supplements with
             | other stuff added. I'm currently using glycinate and
             | taurate in powder form, and there's nothing else listed.
             | 
             | I sprained something in my lower back badly enough about a
             | year ago that it took four trips to the chiropractor before
             | I could get out of bed in the morning without lots of
             | swearing. After that, it would seem to be getting better
             | for a few days, then regress into spasms again. After a
             | month or so of that, I remembered that Mg is supposed to be
             | good for tendons and ligaments. I took a good dose of Mg
             | that night, and it was significantly better the next day,
             | and improved from there. That's the only time in my life
             | that I've had a clear, major difference from taking a
             | supplement.
        
           | Sunspark wrote:
           | B12 is water soluble and does not cause neuropathy. It was a
           | error by the original poster.
           | 
           | As for methyl vs cyano, it depends whether you have the
           | genetic factors that would benefit or not from methyl groups.
           | In my case I wouldn't benefit so I don't take the methyl form
           | and instead take the hydroxy and adeno forms.
           | 
           | Cyano is useless. Needs multiple steps in the liver to
           | convert.
        
         | Beijinger wrote:
         | Whatever you desire:
         | 
         | https://purebulk.com/search?type=product&q=magnesium
         | 
         | Or grab these next time in Europe. 0.50 Euros effervescent
         | tablets https://www.rossmann.de/de/gesundheit-altapharma-
         | brausetable...
         | 
         | I never heard about the B12 problem. But effervescent tablets
         | without artificial sweetener are unheard off.
        
       | NotGMan wrote:
       | I always had cramps no matter how much magnesium I took. It
       | wasn't until I went low carb that cramps dissapeared, even
       | without taking magnesium.
        
         | wolfi1 wrote:
         | Are you a Type II- diabetic? Night cramps seem to appear in
         | diabetics when their metabolism is not well adjusted. Did you
         | let check your A1C?
        
           | NotGMan wrote:
           | Not diabetic. Wore GCM multiple times. Did A1C and insulin
           | tests. My body just doens't like carbs.
           | 
           | My cramps weren't night cramps, but sport/exercise cramps.
        
             | genewitch wrote:
             | All carbs, or grasses?
        
           | mint2 wrote:
           | Fun fact - Low magnesium can contribute to type II diabetes.
           | It's been found certain people not responding to improved
           | diet and medication have the A1C drop after starting mg. Of
           | course, if low Mg isn't a factor then supplementation will do
           | squat.
        
         | scns wrote:
         | Cramps can come from Calcium and Potassium too.
        
       | rapsey wrote:
       | I struggled with sleep for years and years. If I exercised the
       | insomnia would be the worst. Lately I've figured out that
       | magnesium and B6 (p5p form) are the missing piece I have needed.
       | I've been taking magnesium for a long time, but B6 finally
       | allowed me to actually experience improved sleep after exercise.
        
         | mettamage wrote:
         | Neat!
         | 
         | For me: I need 0.3 mg melatonin almost every day to control my
         | sleep and do a bunch of other things. The onset is between 1 to
         | 3 hours. In practice it means I need to be okay with an early
         | wake-up if it kicks in within 1 hour.
         | 
         | When I feel jittery/trembly I need magnesium as my jitters stop
         | when I take it.
        
           | piazz wrote:
           | > Do a bunch of other things
           | 
           | Curious about this! Currently trying to figure out a good
           | 0.3mg melatonin dosing regimine for myself.
        
             | wanderer2323 wrote:
             | Hav you read
             | https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-
             | th... ?
        
         | terribleperson wrote:
         | Be very careful about that B6 dosage. It's possible to overdose
         | on b6 at surprisingly low doses. It doesn't usually cause
         | permanent damage, but anecdotal reports suggest it can take
         | months to a year to recover from b6 neuropathy.
        
           | genewitch wrote:
           | What is "too high a dose"? I imagine the magnesium self
           | regulates because you'll be on the toilet more often than
           | not.
           | 
           | People on HN crack me up. We're smart enough to know that
           | supplements can be beneficial, and how, but not so smart we
           | don't need a nanny to tell us to be careful?
        
       | roenxi wrote:
       | Those charts aren't very clear; given that GGPlot is already on
       | the scene it'd probably pay dividends to bin the data in some
       | form. I'd be starting with geom_boxplot grouped by week myself.
       | Trying to interpret that sort of wild squiggling in the 2nd plot
       | is not the path to happiness.
        
       | _0ffh wrote:
       | Another thing why magnesium oxide could not be the optimal
       | compound for you: It's a laxative. That might be good to know
       | before you start daily supplementation. Personally, I have
       | bisglycinate.
        
         | lifty wrote:
         | I've tried probably most forms of Magnesium and they all upset
         | my digestion, unless I take a small dose.
        
       | derektank wrote:
       | I've been advised that Magnesium supplementation improves the
       | efficacy of ibuprofen and acetaminophen in treating tension
       | headaches by my physician.
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | Magnesium glycinate works for something like 30% of migrane
         | sufferers too. Specifically that one. I wish everyone would
         | specify what formulation with supplements.
         | 
         | I.e. vit D, is it cholecalciferol or calcidiol? It matters.
         | Also D2 in mushrooms exposed to the sun, even dried, works,
         | eventually. But rare in supplements!
        
         | viggity wrote:
         | I've posted many times about how my relationship with opioids
         | (prescribed Rx, not street drugs) is improved when I'm good
         | about taking my magnesium, which I started decades ago because
         | it was supposed to help with atkins/keto. Many people have
         | chimed in that what is likely happening is that Mg helps your
         | ATP, and I'm probably just metabolizing it better. I've also
         | seen other posts about Mg being an NMDA antagonist. If you're
         | interested, those may be additional things you'd want to look
         | into.
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | This is great and all but how can you objectively measure
       | something like "mood" or "productivity"?
       | 
       | There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work
       | activities (e.g. you never debug & implement a fix for the _exact
       | same_ bug twice...one bug might be a satisfying and enjoyable
       | activity, another might be a frustrating, difficult, and tedious
       | pain in the ass)
       | 
       | I've done similar trials with magnesium glcyinate and personally
       | not noticed any difference. But then I have not found any way to
       | accurately measure differences between what a "good day" is Vs a
       | "bad day". Even without supplementing, it feels like dice roll at
       | the best of times
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | > There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work
         | activities
         | 
         | I consistently find the only thing I can correlate reliably is
         | sleep quality assessment upon waking up. If I feel great and
         | rested I know my performance during the day will be better at
         | pretty much everything.
        
         | seer wrote:
         | I haven't seen any cognitive / mood difference for me when
         | taking magnesium supplements in any form.
         | 
         | But then I went to one of those sensory deprivation chambers,
         | where they use magnesium salts to change the water's buoyancy.
         | 
         | I felt the most content and happy in my life for a week after.
         | It was really bizarre - I would "just not care" about pressures
         | at work, failing personal relationships, any stress really.
         | 
         | And I remained effective, just with a higher EQ because I
         | wouldn't overthink things.
         | 
         | Tried it some more times with similar effect. So now when I end
         | up in a situation where I build up stress and can't seem to get
         | to a chill state - just go for a deprivation tank and align
         | myself back, though I try not to get into a situation where I
         | need one altogether.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | I don't know but we can measure stress reliably by HRV. It
         | correlates extremely well with fatigue in general. For me
         | personally, I think it correlates with mood and productivity
         | directly, or at least the preconditions for them.
        
         | justlikereddit wrote:
         | The same guy concluded that LSD microdosing is without any
         | effects so I'm ready to dismiss his ability to reach any
         | conclusion worth listening to.
         | 
         | But he do excel at making a site a pain in the ass to navigate
         | and bulking up the volume of text without adding anything
         | useful to it.
         | 
         | It reeks of some effective altruist flavored breed of
         | pomposity.
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | Maybe it has no effect?
           | 
           | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11311906/
        
         | tudorconstantin wrote:
         | Chess puzzles work quite accurately IME to assess my mental
         | capabilities for the day. Especially the puzzle storm on
         | lichess. There are enough puzzles there to not repeat
         | themselves too often and they are rated so they have similar
         | difficulty for the same rating. In my good days (lots of sleep
         | in previous nights) I have way better scores than on my bad
         | days (30-40% better)
        
           | totallykvothe wrote:
           | Getting big Taravangian vibes here.
        
       | Amekedl wrote:
       | Refer to Magnesium-based Lifeform from Disco Elysium, it is very
       | accurate.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | _Some people say magnesium doesn't really do anything and you
         | just need to quit. What do we tell them?_
        
           | strstr wrote:
           | _We tell them: HELL NO. You're about to become a magnesium-
           | based lifeform. The age of the primitive carbon-man is done._
        
       | nurettin wrote:
       | These "self experiments" all feel like an elaborate ruse to
       | validate their substance abuse.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | At least 90% of all "bio hackers" right there.
        
         | thisislife2 wrote:
         | Or for social media marketing by pharmaceutical companies. Who
         | knows who writes these things?
        
         | diderot1 wrote:
         | There is certainly a lack of intellectual humility. I would
         | consider this kind of "biohacking" to be the fallacy of
         | complexity-seeking.
         | 
         | If one is looking to be healthy, the effort is much better
         | spent on getting good sleep, healthy well balanced diet,
         | regular exercise, maintain social relationships, manage stress.
         | No one wants to hear this because simplicity is boring, and
         | useless for social-status signaling.
         | 
         | Vitamins and all the other biohacking stuff is nonsense that
         | gets in the way of that, with minimal benefit, and opening
         | oneself to harms (in a rumsfeldian known known, known unknown,
         | and unknown unknown sense).
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Magnesium -- cheap & plain-as-possible magnesium pills -- are a
       | great laxative. I suspect that this has follow-on psychological
       | effects. All the expensive pills are just to _avoid_ the laxative
       | effect. No further benefit. So if you think a good dump
       | contributes to your wellbeing, consider the plain stuff.
        
         | beagle3 wrote:
         | There is no such thing as "plain". You can't eat pure
         | magnesium. mg oxide is cheap, but apparently mostly laxative.
         | Mg citrate is part laxative but also absorbed. Mg glycinate is
         | more expensive but avoids the laxative effect.
         | 
         | For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel
         | muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful.
        
           | dr_dshiv wrote:
           | > For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel
           | muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful.
           | 
           | This is what I'm questioning. Most of these variants are
           | claiming subtler psychological effects -- when the basic
           | stuff has a very direct effect that I think is positive.
           | 
           | I always just buy the magnesium pills that just say
           | "magnesium."
        
             | mint2 wrote:
             | Well please read things more carefully in the future.
             | 
             | No one sells pills of pure magnesium - that would be eating
             | metal shavings or metal beads.
             | 
             | It is ALWAYS a magnesium ion paired with an anion of some
             | sort. Is that what you mean? Ones with only magnesium salt
             | or oxide - I.e citrate, carbonate etc
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | As others have illustrated no one sells "magnesium" pills.
             | It is a pill of magnesium reacted with something else. The
             | source of this varies as to whether or not the product
             | wants to be considered as vegetarian, kosher, or otherwise.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | > avoid the laxative effect
         | 
         | Why not consider that it might alter the gut flora?
        
         | cyrillite wrote:
         | Ah. I just checked a formulation for my old supplements v my
         | new ones. I see increased magnesium. This was helpful
        
         | qwerty456127 wrote:
         | > All the expensive pills are just to avoid the laxative
         | effect. No further benefit.
         | 
         | Different substances may have seriously different subjective
         | (e.g. on mood, sleep) effect in at least some people (e.g. me).
         | I may be a good idea to try bisglycinate, orotate, threanate to
         | check whether some of them act the way you like.
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | Theonate gives scary NDE style dreams/out of body
           | experiences. It is supposedly a nanoparticle formulation that
           | crosses the blood brain barrier. Makes me wonder about
           | safety.
        
             | justinator wrote:
             | When I started Mag, I had the most incredible psychotic
             | dreams -- didn't matter the type for me.
             | 
             | They've gone away unfortunately.
        
             | qwerty456127 wrote:
             | > Theonate gives scary NDE style dreams
             | 
             | Not to me, gives me a full night of deep uninterrupted
             | sleep instead.
             | 
             | > out of body experiences
             | 
             | I would pay thousands of dollars for a pill which would
             | give me an out of body experience. To me it seems among the
             | most important things to have experienced before you die.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Have you taken any malaria prophylaxis pills? I had the
               | weirdest dreams on those (maybe not an oit of body
               | experience though), and so did most of the people on the
               | work trip I needed them for. Malarone seemed most likely
               | to trigger vivid dreams, some people had received a
               | newer? medicine which seemed less impactful.
               | 
               | Some malaria drugs have pretty serious warnings aboit
               | psychiatric effects that may continue even after stopping
               | use, so be careful.
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5684859/
        
       | 4gotunameagain wrote:
       | Is anyone aware of an app that can facilitate these types of
       | experiments ?
       | 
       | Ideal features:                 Notification to self report
       | things such as mood, quality of sleep.        Tracking of custom
       | activities/actions (whether you worked out, drunk, or whatever)
       | Data export in csv :)
        
         | ventedmouse wrote:
         | Bevel health might fit that bill https://www.bevel.health/ It's
         | an app that tracks your health parameters, automatically giving
         | you insights along the way
         | 
         | iOS only and requires an Apple Watch, but the deep of tracking
         | coupled with the ease of use is amazing. It gives you a strain,
         | recovery and sleep score that is very accurate. It syncs with
         | your Apple Watch so you can see in depth markers such as HRV
         | and total sleep time, with some metrics that the standard
         | health app doesn't show. It automatically tracks a bunch of
         | health markers. For example, It keeps track of how much zone 2
         | cardio I did, the amount of steps I did, the amount of daylight
         | I had in a day, the noise of my bedroom, and a bunch of other
         | measurements. You can also add custom measurements. I added one
         | for taking my sleep supplements as a custom one, and I can see
         | on the days I took it my objective sleep parameters are
         | improved. It gives you a percentage score for each activity or
         | action and its impact on your sleep or recovery. For example, I
         | see if I have a late meal, it negatively impacts my sleep by
         | 17%.
         | 
         | It's not the most scientific app out there, but the simplicity
         | of its design coupled with its sleek interface has made me
         | incorporate some good habits.
         | 
         | Oh god I just noticed how much this sounds like an ad, but it's
         | one of my favorite purchases this year!
        
         | physicles wrote:
         | Reflect for iOS (black and blue circle icon). I found today on
         | a search through Reddit r/QuantifiedSelf. The UI isn't that
         | polished, but it's super customizable and has JSON export. Also
         | has built-in analytics, like experiments.
         | 
         | Previously I was using Daylio, but that only allows you to make
         | one entry per day.
        
       | elric wrote:
       | Some more anecdata: magnesium greatly reduces annoying muscle
       | twitches for me. I get them quite frequently when I don't take
       | magnesium for a while. Magnesium citrate is easily available
       | here, without added vitamin b6. No side effects from what I've
       | observed over the years.
        
         | jbotz wrote:
         | Also muscle cramps. I like to stretch out all my muscles when I
         | first wake up while still in bed and when I don't supplement
         | magnesium this has sometimes triggered cramps in leg muscles.
         | When supplementing magnesium this never happen, and the
         | stretched muscles feel better, more relaxed.
        
           | jnellis wrote:
           | I find this to be true as well. I have nerve damage/pressure
           | from bad back. If I miss a dose before bed, I almost
           | invariably get a calf cramp in the early morning hours before
           | waking. Very annoying, only way to get rid of it is get out
           | of bed and stand up on it. I think flooding the body with the
           | magnesium before bed, before it has a chance to maybe get rid
           | of excess perhaps, because taking it too far from bedtime
           | I'll still have twitches and cramps.
        
         | K0balt wrote:
         | Also lowers blood pressure for me.
        
       | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
       | Always love to see a Gwern article on the front page. I threw
       | some cash his way for changing my life over a decade ago with his
       | page on spaced repetition, and more recently for his page on
       | using pure nicotine to form other habits.
        
       | codethief wrote:
       | > There are no published human trials as of October 2015
       | 
       | This has changed:
       | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9786204/
       | 
       | Notably, though, their results indicate effects on cognition and
       | memory, which the OP's experiments don't seem to address.
        
       | ANarrativeApe wrote:
       | My understanding is that the human body stores magnesium, said
       | stores sufficient for approximately 30 days. As such, daily
       | magnesium is far less important that the 30 day moving average.
        
       | zingababba wrote:
       | I have similar experiences to gwern with mag, surprisingly easy
       | to overdose leading to a less than optimal state. After 25 years
       | of messing with supplements I've settled on just thiamine and b12
       | with any regularity, and only inject-able at that.
        
       | kvhdude wrote:
       | my own anecdotal experience with magnesium : i was generally
       | prone to leg cramps even when young that usually subsides when i
       | take salty water. i had developed hyperthroidism in late 90s that
       | was treated eventually with radio-iodide. subsequently i went
       | into hypothyroid state. soon after was a violent cramps episode
       | which became regular that even if i took few hundred steps my
       | legs would start cramping up. A steep descent into quality of
       | life had me try many many tests as the initial suspicion was some
       | kind of clot. Quite painful nerve conduction velocity tests were
       | done. I was the subject of academic curiosity at stanford
       | hospital. I was on codeine and other pain medications. After a
       | year of this, one day happened to talk to a regular doctor (no
       | specialization), who treats patients from asian subcontinent. He
       | said that i may have magnesium deficiency which was apparently
       | common for my ethnic background. Since by that time i had tried
       | everything, this was an easy choice. Just a couple of weeks in
       | with cal-mag citrate (400mg/day), felt something different in my
       | legs and the whole nigthmare just lifted. I was able to return to
       | hikes etc and would only occasionally need magnesium. It has been
       | 2 decades since, and i dont take magnesium anymore and do
       | strenous workouts and never again triggered any cramps episode.
        
         | sizzle wrote:
         | Seems like you would benefit from magnesium no? Our bodies
         | don't produce it (correct me if I'm mistaken).
         | 
         | Magnesium Glycinate makes me sleep like a baby at night.
        
           | kvhdude wrote:
           | I took glycinate for a while. Deep sleep with lots of dreams.
           | But soon followed extreme pressure in head with severe
           | headache that i completely stopped.
        
       | breadwinner wrote:
       | Magnesium solved my muscle tightness, and insomnia.
       | 
       | These are the products that work for me: Magnesium Lysinate
       | Glycinate from Doctor's Best, and Magnesium Taurate from Double
       | Wood.
        
       | cfraenkel wrote:
       | An aspect missing from the article and comments here is that
       | magnesium is also available as a topical application. I have some
       | in a spray that I can apply to my knees before bed, we also get
       | some from a local source in a cream base for massaging into
       | muscles. That lets you focus the application without dosing your
       | entire system with it.
        
         | F0UKYOU-HN wrote:
         | Kinda what he stated when he mentioned Epsom Salts in a bath.
         | Which would be magnesium applied 'topically' (externally)
        
       | Nemi wrote:
       | Just some input on Magnesium Chloride for me. I have found it is
       | the best for me as Chloride has no "effects" of its own, unlike
       | things like Glycinate. Glycinate is good if it works for you, but
       | I get wired and can't sleep. I take citrate-based supplements for
       | Calcium and Potassium, but mag citrate causes a lot of GI
       | distress for me. None with chloride.
       | 
       | The bad thing? Mag Chloride is highly hydroscopic. You really
       | can't make it into a pill or they get all weird and goopy. So to
       | get Mag Chloride you have to get it in a liquid form and it is
       | moderately expensive. Worse than the expense, it tastes
       | positively horrid. Still, it has the best impact on my sleep than
       | other forms, so take that for what it is worth.
        
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