[HN Gopher] Magnesium Self-Experiments
___________________________________________________________________
Magnesium Self-Experiments
Author : yamrzou
Score : 165 points
Date : 2025-03-09 05:44 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (gwern.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (gwern.net)
| ggm wrote:
| Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B and so
| increasingly easy to get excess B12. Australian formulations of
| magnesium sold by Swisse don't have B. The same branding in HK
| does. I wrote to them about it, interesting response: "check the
| therapeutic goods administration site for canonical ingredients
| we don't commit to labelling the jar" they do list the neutral
| filler and Mg they just don't say "no B12"
|
| B is typically included for synergistic uptake reasons I believe.
|
| Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy. Considering you take Mg to
| get rid of muscle cramps (pain, conducted by nerves), a bit
| ironic. It's increasingly common in Australia now.
|
| Excess Mg is unlikely. I think the body chucks it out in Urine
| pretty rapidly. I still take it, the cramps after sport return
| within a few months when I stop. I have a fruit and veg rich
| diet, I get plenty of natural Mg and K which is also good for
| muscle cramps. Age related insufficiency I suspect (63)
| malabsorption comes with age.
| chinathrow wrote:
| My doc said there is no scientific proof that Mg works against
| cramps. Is that true?
| ggm wrote:
| I'd always believe a doctor over anonymous internet
| experiences. If your doctor thinks it's not helpful, follow
| their advice. I found my cramps stopped, but anecdata is not
| evidence.
| askvictor wrote:
| While _on the whole_ I would side with doctors over random
| people on the Internet, I've had a number of cases where
| the doctor has been outright wrong, whether misdiagnosis,
| or not being up to date with current research.
| toast0 wrote:
| The doctor didn't say it doesn't work. Just that it's not
| scientific.
|
| But if your lived experience says it works, it doesn't
| really need to have scientific evidence.
|
| The real question is if there is evidence that relevant
| doesea of magnesium supplements are harmful, and if so, how
| those harms compare to the cramps you're experiencing.
|
| There's all sorts of unscientific stuff out there, some of
| which is harmful. But if it's not harmful, it's worth
| trying.
|
| If you get frequent cramps and you don't want to try
| magnesium supplements, you could try going out of your way
| to eat more foods that are known to be high in magnesium,
| most of which are generally considered healthy and there
| you go; choosing to eat a bit more leafy greens doesn't
| feel risky unless you've got an alergy. Having a banana to
| get potasium should be fine for most too, unless the fruit
| sugar is a problem or if there's an allergy.
| mantas wrote:
| But it works for me and I know more anecdata cases.
|
| Maybe it depends on technical cause of what seems to be
| cramps. And maybe it helps indirectly by helping some other
| process in the body. But in ny experience there's direct
| correlation between magnesium intake and cramps and nail
| health.
|
| I've a feeling genetics may be involved since my kid also has
| similar tendencies. And doctor we went to for his night
| cramps did suggest magnesium which worked. So whether there's
| research or not, doctors do suggest it and it does seem to
| help at least in some cases.
| haltcatchfire wrote:
| As always with supplements, a deficiency might cause the
| issue (cramps in this case) and the supplement gets you back
| to normal levels, preventing cramps. If you're experiencing
| cramps but don't have a magnesium deficiency, taking
| magnesium supplements won't make the cramps go away.
| oweiler wrote:
| When I started running I had horrible cramps and the mg made
| them much less severe.
|
| Running for a year now, it doesn't seem to make a difference.
| PeterStuer wrote:
| From experience it does work in cases where through intensive
| training and very high 'sweating' both from cardio training
| and saunas you temd to lose a lot of minerals.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Go train hard in heat/summer until you get cramps. Then get
| electolytes to fix it in a couple of minutes.
|
| Source: I can reproduce this on demand.
| sschueller wrote:
| When I have a cramp in my calf and I take mg in powder form
| it goes away within a minute. I am also no longer able to
| trigger a cramp which I can before taking mg. I don't think a
| placebo would work that quick and that well.
| borgdefenser wrote:
| I mean you should take magnesium if you are deficient on a
| blood test. If you take too much magnesium you will just get
| diarrhea.
|
| The non-blood test way would be to take magnesium until you
| get diarrhea and then take less but that is obviously not a
| pleasant experience.
|
| I take magnesium because it is really obvious when I track
| micro nutrients that I don't get enough in my diet. It mostly
| depends though on how much spinach I am eating.
| canucker2016 wrote:
| Blood test may not be reliable indicator of magnesium in
| the body.
|
| from https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6316205/
| Of clinical importance, around 0.3% of total body magnesium
| is found in serum. Thus, total and/or ionized magnesium
| concentrations measured in plasma or serum are not reliable
| markers of total magnesium levels in the body; as serum
| magnesium does not reflect the total magnesium content at
| the tissue or organs, and is also a poor indicator of
| intracellular magnesium content. Emerging
| evidence suggests that the serum magnesium/calcium quotient
| (0.4 is optimal, 0.36-0.28 too low) is a more practical and
| sensitive indicator of magnesium status and/or turnover,
| than the serum magnesium level alone [19]. In chronic
| latent magnesium deficiency, magnesium levels in the blood
| are within a normal range, despite there being severely
| depleted magnesium content in the tissues and bones.
| Therefore, using magnesium levels in the blood to determine
| total magnesium levels in the body can result in
| underestimation of magnesium deficiency in healthy and
| diseased populations. Recent studies have shown that
| individuals with serum magnesium levels around 1.82 mg/dL
| (0.75 mmol/L) are most likely to have a magnesium
| deficiency, while those with serum magnesium level more
| than 2.07 mg/dL (0.85 mmol/L) are most likely to have
| adequate levels
| astura wrote:
| Magnesium deficiency causes muscle spasms and cramps. That's
| a fact.
|
| If you're experiencing muscle cramps due to low magnesium
| then adding a supplement will almost certainly fix the
| problem.
|
| If you're experiencing muscle cramps for another reason, it
| won't work, probably.
|
| But supplements are cheap and low risk, so it's a good thing
| to try first.
|
| A more accurate statement would be "there is no scientific
| proof that Mg works against cramps [absent a Mg deficiency]."
| freedom_dev wrote:
| Excess B12 is also very easily excreted in urine being a water-
| soluble vitamin so it's really hard to "overdose" on
| ggm wrote:
| https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-08/vitamin-b6-toxicity-p.
| ..
|
| I got my Bs mixed up it's Mg + B6
| viraptor wrote:
| It's still hard to get a high enough dose to dangerous
| level from other supplements. Bad b6 effects typically
| start over 500mg/day. Usual pills of just b6 are 100mg in
| countries that don't limit it otherwise. The reviews that
| I've read normally described the issues as going away
| within days of stopping.
|
| I wish there was better research on this, because so far
| only weird isolated cases make the news.
| sizzle wrote:
| Yeah I just looked mine up they are 8mg b6 how are people
| hitting upper limits?
| Havoc wrote:
| Amazon is Full of ,,high potency" stuff cause idiots
| think bigger number better
| toast0 wrote:
| I'm willing to assume I'm non typical, but I definitely
| had temporary nerve pain effects from a B-complex
| supplement; I can't remember if I noticed that after the
| first night or the second; my spouse reported nothing
| like that though. Looking through my cabinet, looks like
| 50mg B6 pryidoxine HCl (which seems high compared to
| another brand I looked up and a sibling comment). Not
| sure why I kept those, tossed it out now.
|
| But I was really just wanting B1 and a bit more shopping
| found drops (annoying) and tablets with only B1 and
| negligble other stuff.
| viraptor wrote:
| Yeah, that's why I mentioned "typically" - there's always
| going to be someone processing things differently, or
| naturally at high levels.
| Projectiboga wrote:
| And it is total, fortified foods add to the risk.
| viraptor wrote:
| Food normally has amounts <1mg. Even fortified juices are
| <5mg. You'd have to really try hard to make any
| difference with them.
| Klonoar wrote:
| Vegans can actually inadvertently stumble into this: a
| lot of tofu scramble recipes call for 2tbsp of
| nutritional yeast, and the bottles sold by e.g Braggs in
| America are heavily fortified.
|
| Then it's also used in cheese sauces, etc - to the point
| where it's somewhat of a meme to just add it whenever you
| want umami. Then many vegans already take a B multi to
| handle B12.
|
| Point of all this being that this particular diet can
| lead to overdosing on B6 without realizing it. Once I got
| myself a non fortified Nutritional Yeast for
| baking/cooking, I noticed changes in myself for the
| better.
|
| Obligatory "I am not a doctor and YMMV"
| dhedberg wrote:
| > Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.
|
| Do you have any source for this? I can find some "it-might-be-
| bad" studies through a quick googling, but in general the idea
| seem to be that excess B12 is thought to be unproblematic
| ("it's just peed out").
| ggm wrote:
| B6 not B12. My bad.
| DavidPiper wrote:
| Can confirm, overdosing on Vitamin B6 is bad. Lots of very
| scary symptoms.
|
| I accidentally poisoned myself with B6 from Magnesium
| tablets over the course of a year:
| https://davids.town/vitamin-b6-overdose (my levels were 38x
| the healthy range).
|
| tl;dr: Always check your Magnesium for what else the tablet
| includes. If it contains Pyridoxine hydrochloride (i.e.
| Vitamin B6) or another Pyridoxine compound, find one that
| doesn't. Since then, Swisse is the only brand I've found
| that consistently sells "pure" Magnesium tablets here in
| Australia.
| sinuhe69 wrote:
| Definitely, excess of B6 is bad! https://www.sciencedirec
| t.com/science/article/pii/S216183132...
| Sunspark wrote:
| B-vitamins are water soluble..
|
| I take 50mg a day in a bio-available form
| pyridoxal-5-phosphate. Consider this form instead.
|
| I'm taking it because there is some genetic evidence that
| I would benefit from doing so. No neuropathies thus far
| but it's only been about a month and a half.
| DavidPiper wrote:
| I wasn't even aware I was ingesting B6, I was just taking
| the tablets for the magnesium (it was one of the few with
| the full 440mg dose I was recommended).
|
| Blood tests since then have shown that my B6 levels are
| fine with my usual diet, I don't take multivitamins or
| supplements anymore.
|
| I don't know much about B6 beyond my own experiences with
| it, so all I can say is make sure you've discussed it
| with your GP, and be aware of the coasting effect if you
| do happen to develop any neuropathic symptoms:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome
| Sunspark wrote:
| I have to admit I am troubled by reading all this
| including that it has a half-life.. I did have the
| assumption that water soluble meant that excess was
| eliminated out the same day as is the case with some
| things. I had literally never heard of this toxicity
| issue till last night. One problem in general is that
| supplements don't really come in a "smaller size" unless
| I guess, you get powder form instead of capsules. I will
| have to review the genetic data I have again.
|
| Genetic data is useful to know really, especially for
| people with MTHFR mutations as many pathways get
| affected.
| mft_ wrote:
| Maybe you should edit your original post?
| ggm wrote:
| Nope. Locked
| Projectiboga wrote:
| Both of those have od risk around daily of 250 mg B6, 250
| mcg B12, I believe.
| ivankra wrote:
| Vitamin B6 accumulates in the blood - it has an
| exceptionally long half-life on the order of several
| weeks. It's not an occasional overdose you have to worry
| about the most, but also chronic accumulation at low
| doses (even not much above RDA levels, single digit
| milligrams) and your blood levels - apparently there's a
| large individual variation in its metabolism
| (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.phanu.2020.100188)
|
| UK/EU upper safety limits are at 10-12mg per day. US UL
| of 200mg is way past due for an overhaul.
|
| I personally got sick from a B complex with 40mg
| pyridoxine after just 4 months. Developed dysautonomia
| (not a canonical example, but still a kind of neuropathy
| - damage to autonomic nervous system). Had random
| tachycardia and high blood pressure flares from various
| triggers every week, took a while to figure out what was
| really causing it. Your typical non-neurologist GP
| wouldn't know anything because "it's water soluble" and
| the textbooks say neuropathy develops at 200mg+. All
| symptoms mostly resolved after a month once I threw away
| everything with pyridoxine. Wouldn't touch it again,
| always on a lookout for B6 in my multis and supplements
| now. P5P form is thought to be safer, but also got people
| sick - look around on facebook B6 groups for more
| anecdata.
|
| No problem with B12 as far as I know. It's not a
| neurotoxin unlike B6.
| manmal wrote:
| Maybe you mean B6, which is associated with small fiber
| neuropathy.
|
| B12 has to jump through a number of hoops before it's even
| converted into a usable form [1].
|
| I'm sure you're meaning well, but B12 deficiency is a wide
| spread problem [2], and it's questionable that excess is worse
| than deficiency.
|
| 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19832808/#&gid=article-
| figur...
|
| 2: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7792587/
|
| EDIT: After posting, I saw your other comments. Maybe you can
| update parent.
| Jarmsy wrote:
| And one reason for taking B12 is actually to prevent
| neuropathy.
| manmal wrote:
| Looking at the interactions in metabolism, I don't see it.
|
| A low B6 diet and focus on conversion to P5P and oxidation
| of the excess (Aldehyde Oxidase, and maybe by proxy the
| ALDHs) is a safer bet.
| Jarmsy wrote:
| https://www.foundationforpn.org/causes/nutritional-and-
| vitam...
|
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9704859/
|
| https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ene.14786
| giantg2 wrote:
| How about Epsom salt? I've never known that to have B added.
| justinator wrote:
| Don't eat epsom salt.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Technically you can (or as a suppository). The great part
| is that you don't need to.
| zeckalpha wrote:
| Unless you are taking it as a laxative.
| genewitch wrote:
| I've taken Epsom salt as directed on the drug facts label 3
| times, ever, and all three times I probably avoided an
| urgent care/clinic visit by doing so.
|
| If you're ever so severely clogged up that you're
| approaching a week without - Epsom salt will, in fact,
| work. It works so well that I'd recommend pre/probiotic
| foods for a couple days afterward. It completely cleans you
| out.
|
| Otherwise, I agree. You have to know why you're clogged,
| too; if you got no clue, go see a Dr.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Do you mean constipated?
| genewitch wrote:
| constipation is one reason, but also just a temporary,
| painful blockage for whatever reason. Epsom is like drano
| for your intestines. The dosage information is on _all_
| epsom salt packages designed to be used this way.
| Obviously don 't ingest like, lavender scented bath salt
| (Sitz salt, whatever)
| astura wrote:
| epsom salt absolutely can be eaten as a laxative. It has a
| "drug facts" panels on the container with instructions.
|
| It can also be added to your bathwater or used as a foot
| soak.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| > Excess B12 is really bad. Neuropathy.
|
| How much really is dangerously excess? How do methylcobalamin
| vs cyanocobalamin compare in this regard? I noticed B12
| supplements usually exceed the RDA by some orders of magnitude.
|
| > Increasingly hard to get Mg tablets without Vitamin B
|
| Same problem with iron supplements. Not particularly easy to
| find iron without folic acid. Folic acid can be very harmful
| for people with methylation problems (an extremely widespread
| genetic thing) who should supplement methylfolate instead.
| Whoever feels stimulated and harder to sleep after taking a
| folic acid pill - beware.
| mint2 wrote:
| There's a fair number of brands selling mg alone and fe
| alone. Maybe it's hard outside the US? Or maybe places like
| target and CVS don't carry them - those places do have
| limited options.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| CVS' own brand has Mg only
|
| https://www.cvs.com/shop/cvs-health-magnesium-
| glycinate-200m...
| astura wrote:
| You can walk into target, Walmart, CVS, etc and have plenty
| of options for iron alone (which isn't widely packed with
| other vitamins outside a multi) and magnesium alone.
| aaronbaugher wrote:
| Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen Mg supplements with
| other stuff added. I'm currently using glycinate and
| taurate in powder form, and there's nothing else listed.
|
| I sprained something in my lower back badly enough about a
| year ago that it took four trips to the chiropractor before
| I could get out of bed in the morning without lots of
| swearing. After that, it would seem to be getting better
| for a few days, then regress into spasms again. After a
| month or so of that, I remembered that Mg is supposed to be
| good for tendons and ligaments. I took a good dose of Mg
| that night, and it was significantly better the next day,
| and improved from there. That's the only time in my life
| that I've had a clear, major difference from taking a
| supplement.
| Sunspark wrote:
| B12 is water soluble and does not cause neuropathy. It was a
| error by the original poster.
|
| As for methyl vs cyano, it depends whether you have the
| genetic factors that would benefit or not from methyl groups.
| In my case I wouldn't benefit so I don't take the methyl form
| and instead take the hydroxy and adeno forms.
|
| Cyano is useless. Needs multiple steps in the liver to
| convert.
| Beijinger wrote:
| Whatever you desire:
|
| https://purebulk.com/search?type=product&q=magnesium
|
| Or grab these next time in Europe. 0.50 Euros effervescent
| tablets https://www.rossmann.de/de/gesundheit-altapharma-
| brausetable...
|
| I never heard about the B12 problem. But effervescent tablets
| without artificial sweetener are unheard off.
| NotGMan wrote:
| I always had cramps no matter how much magnesium I took. It
| wasn't until I went low carb that cramps dissapeared, even
| without taking magnesium.
| wolfi1 wrote:
| Are you a Type II- diabetic? Night cramps seem to appear in
| diabetics when their metabolism is not well adjusted. Did you
| let check your A1C?
| NotGMan wrote:
| Not diabetic. Wore GCM multiple times. Did A1C and insulin
| tests. My body just doens't like carbs.
|
| My cramps weren't night cramps, but sport/exercise cramps.
| genewitch wrote:
| All carbs, or grasses?
| mint2 wrote:
| Fun fact - Low magnesium can contribute to type II diabetes.
| It's been found certain people not responding to improved
| diet and medication have the A1C drop after starting mg. Of
| course, if low Mg isn't a factor then supplementation will do
| squat.
| scns wrote:
| Cramps can come from Calcium and Potassium too.
| rapsey wrote:
| I struggled with sleep for years and years. If I exercised the
| insomnia would be the worst. Lately I've figured out that
| magnesium and B6 (p5p form) are the missing piece I have needed.
| I've been taking magnesium for a long time, but B6 finally
| allowed me to actually experience improved sleep after exercise.
| mettamage wrote:
| Neat!
|
| For me: I need 0.3 mg melatonin almost every day to control my
| sleep and do a bunch of other things. The onset is between 1 to
| 3 hours. In practice it means I need to be okay with an early
| wake-up if it kicks in within 1 hour.
|
| When I feel jittery/trembly I need magnesium as my jitters stop
| when I take it.
| piazz wrote:
| > Do a bunch of other things
|
| Curious about this! Currently trying to figure out a good
| 0.3mg melatonin dosing regimine for myself.
| wanderer2323 wrote:
| Hav you read
| https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-
| th... ?
| terribleperson wrote:
| Be very careful about that B6 dosage. It's possible to overdose
| on b6 at surprisingly low doses. It doesn't usually cause
| permanent damage, but anecdotal reports suggest it can take
| months to a year to recover from b6 neuropathy.
| genewitch wrote:
| What is "too high a dose"? I imagine the magnesium self
| regulates because you'll be on the toilet more often than
| not.
|
| People on HN crack me up. We're smart enough to know that
| supplements can be beneficial, and how, but not so smart we
| don't need a nanny to tell us to be careful?
| roenxi wrote:
| Those charts aren't very clear; given that GGPlot is already on
| the scene it'd probably pay dividends to bin the data in some
| form. I'd be starting with geom_boxplot grouped by week myself.
| Trying to interpret that sort of wild squiggling in the 2nd plot
| is not the path to happiness.
| _0ffh wrote:
| Another thing why magnesium oxide could not be the optimal
| compound for you: It's a laxative. That might be good to know
| before you start daily supplementation. Personally, I have
| bisglycinate.
| lifty wrote:
| I've tried probably most forms of Magnesium and they all upset
| my digestion, unless I take a small dose.
| derektank wrote:
| I've been advised that Magnesium supplementation improves the
| efficacy of ibuprofen and acetaminophen in treating tension
| headaches by my physician.
| genewitch wrote:
| Magnesium glycinate works for something like 30% of migrane
| sufferers too. Specifically that one. I wish everyone would
| specify what formulation with supplements.
|
| I.e. vit D, is it cholecalciferol or calcidiol? It matters.
| Also D2 in mushrooms exposed to the sun, even dried, works,
| eventually. But rare in supplements!
| viggity wrote:
| I've posted many times about how my relationship with opioids
| (prescribed Rx, not street drugs) is improved when I'm good
| about taking my magnesium, which I started decades ago because
| it was supposed to help with atkins/keto. Many people have
| chimed in that what is likely happening is that Mg helps your
| ATP, and I'm probably just metabolizing it better. I've also
| seen other posts about Mg being an NMDA antagonist. If you're
| interested, those may be additional things you'd want to look
| into.
| mattlondon wrote:
| This is great and all but how can you objectively measure
| something like "mood" or "productivity"?
|
| There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work
| activities (e.g. you never debug & implement a fix for the _exact
| same_ bug twice...one bug might be a satisfying and enjoyable
| activity, another might be a frustrating, difficult, and tedious
| pain in the ass)
|
| I've done similar trials with magnesium glcyinate and personally
| not noticed any difference. But then I have not found any way to
| accurately measure differences between what a "good day" is Vs a
| "bad day". Even without supplementing, it feels like dice roll at
| the best of times
| vasco wrote:
| > There are a lot of variables, even in your day to day work
| activities
|
| I consistently find the only thing I can correlate reliably is
| sleep quality assessment upon waking up. If I feel great and
| rested I know my performance during the day will be better at
| pretty much everything.
| seer wrote:
| I haven't seen any cognitive / mood difference for me when
| taking magnesium supplements in any form.
|
| But then I went to one of those sensory deprivation chambers,
| where they use magnesium salts to change the water's buoyancy.
|
| I felt the most content and happy in my life for a week after.
| It was really bizarre - I would "just not care" about pressures
| at work, failing personal relationships, any stress really.
|
| And I remained effective, just with a higher EQ because I
| wouldn't overthink things.
|
| Tried it some more times with similar effect. So now when I end
| up in a situation where I build up stress and can't seem to get
| to a chill state - just go for a deprivation tank and align
| myself back, though I try not to get into a situation where I
| need one altogether.
| guerrilla wrote:
| I don't know but we can measure stress reliably by HRV. It
| correlates extremely well with fatigue in general. For me
| personally, I think it correlates with mood and productivity
| directly, or at least the preconditions for them.
| justlikereddit wrote:
| The same guy concluded that LSD microdosing is without any
| effects so I'm ready to dismiss his ability to reach any
| conclusion worth listening to.
|
| But he do excel at making a site a pain in the ass to navigate
| and bulking up the volume of text without adding anything
| useful to it.
|
| It reeks of some effective altruist flavored breed of
| pomposity.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| Maybe it has no effect?
|
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11311906/
| tudorconstantin wrote:
| Chess puzzles work quite accurately IME to assess my mental
| capabilities for the day. Especially the puzzle storm on
| lichess. There are enough puzzles there to not repeat
| themselves too often and they are rated so they have similar
| difficulty for the same rating. In my good days (lots of sleep
| in previous nights) I have way better scores than on my bad
| days (30-40% better)
| totallykvothe wrote:
| Getting big Taravangian vibes here.
| Amekedl wrote:
| Refer to Magnesium-based Lifeform from Disco Elysium, it is very
| accurate.
| duskwuff wrote:
| _Some people say magnesium doesn't really do anything and you
| just need to quit. What do we tell them?_
| strstr wrote:
| _We tell them: HELL NO. You're about to become a magnesium-
| based lifeform. The age of the primitive carbon-man is done._
| nurettin wrote:
| These "self experiments" all feel like an elaborate ruse to
| validate their substance abuse.
| teddyh wrote:
| At least 90% of all "bio hackers" right there.
| thisislife2 wrote:
| Or for social media marketing by pharmaceutical companies. Who
| knows who writes these things?
| diderot1 wrote:
| There is certainly a lack of intellectual humility. I would
| consider this kind of "biohacking" to be the fallacy of
| complexity-seeking.
|
| If one is looking to be healthy, the effort is much better
| spent on getting good sleep, healthy well balanced diet,
| regular exercise, maintain social relationships, manage stress.
| No one wants to hear this because simplicity is boring, and
| useless for social-status signaling.
|
| Vitamins and all the other biohacking stuff is nonsense that
| gets in the way of that, with minimal benefit, and opening
| oneself to harms (in a rumsfeldian known known, known unknown,
| and unknown unknown sense).
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Magnesium -- cheap & plain-as-possible magnesium pills -- are a
| great laxative. I suspect that this has follow-on psychological
| effects. All the expensive pills are just to _avoid_ the laxative
| effect. No further benefit. So if you think a good dump
| contributes to your wellbeing, consider the plain stuff.
| beagle3 wrote:
| There is no such thing as "plain". You can't eat pure
| magnesium. mg oxide is cheap, but apparently mostly laxative.
| Mg citrate is part laxative but also absorbed. Mg glycinate is
| more expensive but avoids the laxative effect.
|
| For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel
| muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| > For the muscle relaxant effect (other than perhaps bowel
| muscles), mg oxide is hardly useful.
|
| This is what I'm questioning. Most of these variants are
| claiming subtler psychological effects -- when the basic
| stuff has a very direct effect that I think is positive.
|
| I always just buy the magnesium pills that just say
| "magnesium."
| mint2 wrote:
| Well please read things more carefully in the future.
|
| No one sells pills of pure magnesium - that would be eating
| metal shavings or metal beads.
|
| It is ALWAYS a magnesium ion paired with an anion of some
| sort. Is that what you mean? Ones with only magnesium salt
| or oxide - I.e citrate, carbonate etc
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| As others have illustrated no one sells "magnesium" pills.
| It is a pill of magnesium reacted with something else. The
| source of this varies as to whether or not the product
| wants to be considered as vegetarian, kosher, or otherwise.
| xattt wrote:
| > avoid the laxative effect
|
| Why not consider that it might alter the gut flora?
| cyrillite wrote:
| Ah. I just checked a formulation for my old supplements v my
| new ones. I see increased magnesium. This was helpful
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| > All the expensive pills are just to avoid the laxative
| effect. No further benefit.
|
| Different substances may have seriously different subjective
| (e.g. on mood, sleep) effect in at least some people (e.g. me).
| I may be a good idea to try bisglycinate, orotate, threanate to
| check whether some of them act the way you like.
| colordrops wrote:
| Theonate gives scary NDE style dreams/out of body
| experiences. It is supposedly a nanoparticle formulation that
| crosses the blood brain barrier. Makes me wonder about
| safety.
| justinator wrote:
| When I started Mag, I had the most incredible psychotic
| dreams -- didn't matter the type for me.
|
| They've gone away unfortunately.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| > Theonate gives scary NDE style dreams
|
| Not to me, gives me a full night of deep uninterrupted
| sleep instead.
|
| > out of body experiences
|
| I would pay thousands of dollars for a pill which would
| give me an out of body experience. To me it seems among the
| most important things to have experienced before you die.
| toast0 wrote:
| Have you taken any malaria prophylaxis pills? I had the
| weirdest dreams on those (maybe not an oit of body
| experience though), and so did most of the people on the
| work trip I needed them for. Malarone seemed most likely
| to trigger vivid dreams, some people had received a
| newer? medicine which seemed less impactful.
|
| Some malaria drugs have pretty serious warnings aboit
| psychiatric effects that may continue even after stopping
| use, so be careful.
|
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5684859/
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| Is anyone aware of an app that can facilitate these types of
| experiments ?
|
| Ideal features: Notification to self report
| things such as mood, quality of sleep. Tracking of custom
| activities/actions (whether you worked out, drunk, or whatever)
| Data export in csv :)
| ventedmouse wrote:
| Bevel health might fit that bill https://www.bevel.health/ It's
| an app that tracks your health parameters, automatically giving
| you insights along the way
|
| iOS only and requires an Apple Watch, but the deep of tracking
| coupled with the ease of use is amazing. It gives you a strain,
| recovery and sleep score that is very accurate. It syncs with
| your Apple Watch so you can see in depth markers such as HRV
| and total sleep time, with some metrics that the standard
| health app doesn't show. It automatically tracks a bunch of
| health markers. For example, It keeps track of how much zone 2
| cardio I did, the amount of steps I did, the amount of daylight
| I had in a day, the noise of my bedroom, and a bunch of other
| measurements. You can also add custom measurements. I added one
| for taking my sleep supplements as a custom one, and I can see
| on the days I took it my objective sleep parameters are
| improved. It gives you a percentage score for each activity or
| action and its impact on your sleep or recovery. For example, I
| see if I have a late meal, it negatively impacts my sleep by
| 17%.
|
| It's not the most scientific app out there, but the simplicity
| of its design coupled with its sleek interface has made me
| incorporate some good habits.
|
| Oh god I just noticed how much this sounds like an ad, but it's
| one of my favorite purchases this year!
| physicles wrote:
| Reflect for iOS (black and blue circle icon). I found today on
| a search through Reddit r/QuantifiedSelf. The UI isn't that
| polished, but it's super customizable and has JSON export. Also
| has built-in analytics, like experiments.
|
| Previously I was using Daylio, but that only allows you to make
| one entry per day.
| elric wrote:
| Some more anecdata: magnesium greatly reduces annoying muscle
| twitches for me. I get them quite frequently when I don't take
| magnesium for a while. Magnesium citrate is easily available
| here, without added vitamin b6. No side effects from what I've
| observed over the years.
| jbotz wrote:
| Also muscle cramps. I like to stretch out all my muscles when I
| first wake up while still in bed and when I don't supplement
| magnesium this has sometimes triggered cramps in leg muscles.
| When supplementing magnesium this never happen, and the
| stretched muscles feel better, more relaxed.
| jnellis wrote:
| I find this to be true as well. I have nerve damage/pressure
| from bad back. If I miss a dose before bed, I almost
| invariably get a calf cramp in the early morning hours before
| waking. Very annoying, only way to get rid of it is get out
| of bed and stand up on it. I think flooding the body with the
| magnesium before bed, before it has a chance to maybe get rid
| of excess perhaps, because taking it too far from bedtime
| I'll still have twitches and cramps.
| K0balt wrote:
| Also lowers blood pressure for me.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| Always love to see a Gwern article on the front page. I threw
| some cash his way for changing my life over a decade ago with his
| page on spaced repetition, and more recently for his page on
| using pure nicotine to form other habits.
| codethief wrote:
| > There are no published human trials as of October 2015
|
| This has changed:
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9786204/
|
| Notably, though, their results indicate effects on cognition and
| memory, which the OP's experiments don't seem to address.
| ANarrativeApe wrote:
| My understanding is that the human body stores magnesium, said
| stores sufficient for approximately 30 days. As such, daily
| magnesium is far less important that the 30 day moving average.
| zingababba wrote:
| I have similar experiences to gwern with mag, surprisingly easy
| to overdose leading to a less than optimal state. After 25 years
| of messing with supplements I've settled on just thiamine and b12
| with any regularity, and only inject-able at that.
| kvhdude wrote:
| my own anecdotal experience with magnesium : i was generally
| prone to leg cramps even when young that usually subsides when i
| take salty water. i had developed hyperthroidism in late 90s that
| was treated eventually with radio-iodide. subsequently i went
| into hypothyroid state. soon after was a violent cramps episode
| which became regular that even if i took few hundred steps my
| legs would start cramping up. A steep descent into quality of
| life had me try many many tests as the initial suspicion was some
| kind of clot. Quite painful nerve conduction velocity tests were
| done. I was the subject of academic curiosity at stanford
| hospital. I was on codeine and other pain medications. After a
| year of this, one day happened to talk to a regular doctor (no
| specialization), who treats patients from asian subcontinent. He
| said that i may have magnesium deficiency which was apparently
| common for my ethnic background. Since by that time i had tried
| everything, this was an easy choice. Just a couple of weeks in
| with cal-mag citrate (400mg/day), felt something different in my
| legs and the whole nigthmare just lifted. I was able to return to
| hikes etc and would only occasionally need magnesium. It has been
| 2 decades since, and i dont take magnesium anymore and do
| strenous workouts and never again triggered any cramps episode.
| sizzle wrote:
| Seems like you would benefit from magnesium no? Our bodies
| don't produce it (correct me if I'm mistaken).
|
| Magnesium Glycinate makes me sleep like a baby at night.
| kvhdude wrote:
| I took glycinate for a while. Deep sleep with lots of dreams.
| But soon followed extreme pressure in head with severe
| headache that i completely stopped.
| breadwinner wrote:
| Magnesium solved my muscle tightness, and insomnia.
|
| These are the products that work for me: Magnesium Lysinate
| Glycinate from Doctor's Best, and Magnesium Taurate from Double
| Wood.
| cfraenkel wrote:
| An aspect missing from the article and comments here is that
| magnesium is also available as a topical application. I have some
| in a spray that I can apply to my knees before bed, we also get
| some from a local source in a cream base for massaging into
| muscles. That lets you focus the application without dosing your
| entire system with it.
| F0UKYOU-HN wrote:
| Kinda what he stated when he mentioned Epsom Salts in a bath.
| Which would be magnesium applied 'topically' (externally)
| Nemi wrote:
| Just some input on Magnesium Chloride for me. I have found it is
| the best for me as Chloride has no "effects" of its own, unlike
| things like Glycinate. Glycinate is good if it works for you, but
| I get wired and can't sleep. I take citrate-based supplements for
| Calcium and Potassium, but mag citrate causes a lot of GI
| distress for me. None with chloride.
|
| The bad thing? Mag Chloride is highly hydroscopic. You really
| can't make it into a pill or they get all weird and goopy. So to
| get Mag Chloride you have to get it in a liquid form and it is
| moderately expensive. Worse than the expense, it tastes
| positively horrid. Still, it has the best impact on my sleep than
| other forms, so take that for what it is worth.
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