[HN Gopher] Walt Disney's MultiPlane Camera (Filmed Feb. 13, 195...
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       Walt Disney's MultiPlane Camera (Filmed Feb. 13, 1957) [video]
        
       Author : kristiandupont
       Score  : 177 points
       Date   : 2025-03-07 19:06 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | cpeterso wrote:
       | You can see one of these multiplane cameras on display at the
       | Walt Disney Family Museum in the Presidio of San Francisco.
        
         | hkchad wrote:
         | There is also a display of one in Orlando, I believe at Magic
         | Kindgom.
        
           | bnycum wrote:
           | It's in Walt Disney Presents at Hollywood Studios. There is a
           | bunch more Disney models and memorabilia inside as well.
           | Feels like a hidden gem because it's always pretty empty,
           | plus there is even a character meet and greet with little
           | wait.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I never grew up with Disney as a big part of my life so it wasn't
       | until later that I learned about Walt, and all the folks related
       | to the work at Disney and some of the amazing things they did.
       | 
       | I really didn't know of all the cool technology and etc they
       | made.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Highly recommend reading through some of the old "E" ticket
         | magazines. There's some excellent pieces from some of the
         | original masterminds at Disney. There's creativity they had
         | especially back then was unmatched IMO.
        
       | lordfrito wrote:
       | Good stuff. Back in the day technical innovation and risk taking
       | was an integral part of Disney... I miss those days. How far the
       | house of mouse has fallen.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Disney still is highly innovative in the technology space.
         | Perhaps you're just not familiar with their work?
         | 
         | https://www.disneyresearch.com/
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/@disneyresearchhub?si=6f1K4hWm6Tg6N18E
        
           | nightpool wrote:
           | Sponsoring a paper or two a year at ETH Zurich is not really
           | the same thing as technical innovation and risk taking being
           | an integral part of their company's success.
        
             | DoctorOW wrote:
             | I don't understand the distinction. Disney Research is
             | inventing new filmmaking and robotics tech, in much the
             | same way as is shown in the post. Why does collaborating
             | with a university negate it.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | It's hard to take someone like you seriously when you look
             | at that page and single out a set of the work, which
             | requires you to ignore the papers that include or are
             | mostly Disney researchers.
        
             | numpad0 wrote:
             | sure https://youtu.be/YGOY4KaLLNw?feature=shared&t=32
        
       | aweiland wrote:
       | I wonder when and why they stopped making films like these. I've
       | been enjoying watching Behind the Attraction and The Imagineering
       | Story on Disney+ with my kids. They are full of these old films
       | of Walt going over their ideas and explaining the things they are
       | and have built. It's a shame that stopped.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | They're very neat but if you think about why they were ever
         | made at all its a bit more clear. I think a lot of these are
         | 30s-50s style infomercials. One of my favorites explains how a
         | differential works[1] but its more clearly a Chrysler
         | commercial. Presumably this Disney clip was entertaining enough
         | to have been part of a tv show but could have also been some
         | promotional material.
         | 
         | These days we only get this stuff in recruiting material or
         | SAAS ads.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI
        
         | nuccy wrote:
         | Some technologies have been lost, even though they were
         | superior to what is available today. Take, for example, the old
         | "green/blue screen" technique using sodium vapor lamps, used by
         | Walt Disney in film production in the pre-digital era:
         | https://youtu.be/UQuIVsNzqDk (12 minutes long, but totally
         | worth it).
        
           | pchristensen wrote:
           | This video was fascinating!
        
           | gmueckl wrote:
           | The video also highlights how finicky that technique is to
           | work with. Especially when working on film, where you have to
           | wait for the developed dailies to check the quality of the
           | work, any reliability issues with the effects processes
           | compound enormously. Re-shooting scenes days later because
           | the camera or lighting was subtly inadequate is expensive.
        
       | dTal wrote:
       | What's old is new again!
       | 
       | https://augmentedperception.github.io/deepview/compLFMPI/
        
       | dtagames wrote:
       | It's worth pointing out that Walt was one of the inventors of
       | this camera, as well as all his other roles in making the
       | company's art. Concepts we have today like Photoshop layers and
       | CSS stacking contexts are direct descendants of this invention.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | If the Wikipedia page[0] is correct, he's more of a refiner
         | than the inventor, no?
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplane_camera
        
           | nashashmi wrote:
           | This is a periodic reminder that all innovations happen in
           | iterations. Walt could be credited as a curator of talented
           | production and investor in the mission.
        
           | dtagames wrote:
           | Walt is the named inventor on the patent[0]. I verified this
           | by asking ChatGPT to do some research[1].
           | 
           | [0] https://patentyogi.com/celebrity-patents/celebrity-
           | patent-wa...
           | 
           | [1] https://chatgpt.com/share/67cf2195-10dc-8011-bc6b-2ee90bd
           | b0a...
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Disney didn't invent this technique:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplane_camera#History
         | 
         | And there were various predecessors like for example tunnel
         | books: https://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/tunnel-books-art-
         | histor...
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | At the point in time the Walt Disney Company patented the
         | multiplane camera, Walt had long since stopped getting his
         | hands dirty with drawing or technology.
         | 
         | Wikipedia's page on the multiplane camera is interesting:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplane_camera
         | 
         | The first incarnation: Lottie Reininger/Carl Koch, 1926.
         | Lottie's "Adventures of Prince Achmed" from the same year is
         | the oldest known surviving animated feature, and can be watched
         | in its entirety on Wikipedia.
         | 
         | Other people fooled around with the idea but there's nothing
         | wiki-notable.
         | 
         | 1933: while estranged from Disney (it's a long saga), Walt's
         | former star animator and Mickey co-creator Ub Iwerks built a
         | more advanced one.
         | 
         | 1934: the ever-inventive Fleischer studios (inventors of the
         | process of 'rotoscoping', where animators trace over live
         | action) took a very different approach to the problem of
         | creating a sense of depth in animation and built their bugfuck
         | insane Stereoptical Camera, which put miniature sets on a
         | turntable, with a place to put animation cels (which,
         | tangentially, were invented back in 1914 at Bray Studios).
         | 
         | 1937: Disney's studio put together a seven-layer multiplane
         | camera for _Snow White_. Walt 's name went on the patent.
         | 
         | (When I was a kid dreaming of being in the animation industry
         | in the seventies, Leonard Maltin's _Of Mice and Magic_ was the
         | canonical history of the entire medium, if you 're curious
         | about the minutae of long-vanished studios. It's a _lot_ easier
         | to actually see any old piece of animation that you 're curious
         | about than it was back then.)
        
       | spaceguillotine wrote:
       | You can go see one in person, it sticks through the floor of the
       | Disney Family Museum in the Presidio. There is lots of animation
       | history in that building. If you just wanna see the camera the
       | top part pokes into the gift shop which you don't need admission
       | to go into
        
         | emmanueloga_ wrote:
         | ...and it's a hunk of steel that must weigh a few tons and is
         | built to withstand an extinction-level disaster. I mean, even
         | for the '30s, it seemed a little bit excessive. I understand it
         | had to be somewhat heavy for stability and all, but I suspect
         | it could have been made more lightweight.
        
           | devb wrote:
           | It could have been made bigger too. Who cares?
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | > I suspect it could have been made more lightweight.
           | 
           | Perfection is the enemy of done.
           | 
           | Those are the kind of improvements that happen when many
           | items are made. I suspect Disney only made a few, and thus
           | what was more important was creating a working multiplane
           | camera than lowering its weight.
           | 
           | I also suspect that the weight added a lot of stability which
           | prevented shaking between frames.
        
         | pchristensen wrote:
         | Huge recommendation for the Disney Family Museum! It greatly
         | exceeded my expectations, and there's a lot of focus on Disneys
         | innovations during Walt's lifetime.
        
           | eddieroger wrote:
           | I rode past the museum on a hop on/off bus tour during my
           | first trip to San Francisco, and being a Disney Adult, went
           | back to my hotel and looked up, prioritizing a trip before I
           | left. I was blown away, and have made sure to go back every
           | time I'm in the Bay Area. Highly recommended if you're
           | remotely interested in how Disney went from two brothers to
           | the empire it is today, and special mention if you dig behind
           | the scenes stuff.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Dali and Disney
       | tried to get something together.
        
       | onemoresoop wrote:
       | I highly enjoy watching these old instructional documentaries
       | even if the tech is obsolete by now. There's something that makes
       | old tech a lot more graspable as a concept even if you're not
       | familiar with the technology.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | I have mixed feelings because they're charming, but there was
         | only a minute of actual content in there, and it didn't mention
         | complexities like how shots were planned, painting the layers
         | was coordinated, and getting the right focus with the camera.
        
         | ibaikov wrote:
         | It's not really obsolete, animation studios (and especially
         | indie) still use the same things. There are those who only use
         | modern tools and digital (which is mostly drawn frame-by-frame
         | as well), but it's more like it's split by the technique used.
         | Watch animation shorts from oscar, there are lots of them that
         | use old stuff.
        
       | niteshpant wrote:
       | Wow! Incredibly fascinated to see 1957 tech make such fascinating
       | animations! It's so time consuming. Imagine the patience to take
       | those pictures frame by frame
        
         | mkoryak wrote:
         | I hope some day someone will look back on me waiting for a GWS
         | build and say something similar
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | Not to be confused with the yellow prism camera.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQuIVsNzqDk
        
         | voxadam wrote:
         | I'm not a VFX person but that's mind-bendingly amazing. I
         | really love their talk about needing high quality training date
         | near the end of the video. AI is only as good as the data used
         | to train the model.
        
       | cududa wrote:
       | From watching, it seems this was a clip of a larger presentation.
       | I spent some time trying to find a longer version but had no
       | luck.
       | 
       | Anyone perhaps know what this was from?
        
         | marcod wrote:
         | Check out this comment on the YT
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YIR39KeJMk&lc=Ugx8HYRxBkUrP...
        
         | omnibrain wrote:
         | Could have been part of this:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_anthology_television_se...
         | 
         | There must be tons of stuff locked in the Disney vaults to
         | never surface again.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | I feel like movies in the past were so much more technically
       | amazing. I mean, sure they look a hundred times more amazing now,
       | but the amount of human physical effort involved (as opposed to
       | 'butts in seats') was immense.
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | they were but also so are current ones, it's just invisible due
         | to layers of techniques and technologies added over time.
         | 
         | Maybe a good analogy would be microcomputers and home computers
         | of 80's and 90's compared to a modern phone. Latter is
         | absolutely miles ahead in everything but it's standing on giant
         | stacks of work and on the face of it it's a commodity vs maybe
         | what we had before where more artisan approach was needed
         | throughout to get something great out of it.
        
       | HelloUsername wrote:
       | Previous discussions:
       | 
       | 01-jun-2011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2605831 1
       | comments
       | 
       | 25-feb-2012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3633366 1
       | comments
       | 
       | 22-apr-2016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11550779 21
       | comments
       | 
       | 06-apr-2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16768953 62
       | comments
        
       | havblue wrote:
       | These are definitely techniques that you take for granted, even
       | moreso now with computer animation. I definitely am impressed now
       | when I see scenes like the opening of Sleeping Beauty as the
       | camera zooms in on the inside of the castle. My wife and kids get
       | confused at this point as to what I'm making such a big deal
       | about.
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | Speaking of techniques-- I remember that Disney's Snow White
         | being a kind of pastiche of different art styles and physics.
         | The Fleischer Snow White, too, with the rotoscoping of Cab
         | Calloway vs. all the bouncy, stretchy characters (all of which
         | IIRC was done by a single animator). All based on practical
         | constraints, I'm sure, but audiences enjoyed it and it's a
         | valid and striking style.
         | 
         | Does anyone still mix clashing styles/physics this way in
         | modern animation? My superficial impression is that if a modern
         | character has a gag where, say, its foot elongates to kick an
         | opponent, it has to be part of a foot-elongating species of
         | animal inside, complete with a 10-page backstory, who lives in
         | a fully worked out Elongation Universe that has its own gaming
         | physics engine and subreddit.
        
           | mjb wrote:
           | Horton Hears a Who (2008) does a really fun job combining
           | different animation styles to get different effects. It works
           | well in the silly Seuss universe.
        
             | jancsika wrote:
             | Thanks, I'll check that one out.
        
           | alienthrowaway wrote:
           | > Does anyone still mix clashing styles/physics this way in
           | modern animation
           | 
           | The _Spiderverse_ movies have characters with clashing styles
           | and frame rates sharing the screen, but perhaps it fails your
           | second test because they come from different in-story
           | universes. The design, art direction and animation are great,
           | both movies are a visual feast
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | I absolutely love the background music here.
       | 
       | What's this genre called?
       | 
       | Big Band?
        
         | smitty1110 wrote:
         | It's not really a genre, per se. This sort of comes from Opera,
         | and was generally referred to as Incidental Music. Music
         | written specifically to accompany the action on screen or
         | stage. You don't really see albums or collections, because it
         | doesn't generally make sense without the visual context.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | I actually sample this type of music, I keep the vocals and
           | it ends up feeling like lofi.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Why did they go vertical? Would it have been easier going
       | horizontal?
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | It is much easier to get a bunch of stuff precisely arranged
         | and uniformly lit when it is lying flat. Especially if you
         | flatten it out by placing a sheet of glass over it.
         | 
         | With everything standing up on end you're constantly fighting
         | gravity and air currents, as well as problems like background
         | art painted using water-based media that makes the paper it's
         | on want to wrinkle. Much easier to just squish it all flat with
         | gravity's help.
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-10 23:01 UTC)