[HN Gopher] Roald Dahl on the death of his daughter (2015)
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Roald Dahl on the death of his daughter (2015)
Author : areoform
Score : 155 points
Date : 2025-03-05 13:29 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.telegraph.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.telegraph.co.uk)
| Sir_Twist wrote:
| https://archive.is/MsYOu
| mortar wrote:
| 2015 - https://archive.is/MsYOu
| croissants wrote:
| I'm not sure what word to apply to facing three familial
| tragedies, any one of which might seem like more than a life's
| fair share of misfortune, with that kind of perseverance.
| Inspiring is too glib, inhuman is too alienating. Whatever kind
| of mettle that is, I hope to never have to prove it.
| rakejake wrote:
| People are products of their environment. There are people with
| mettle/grit and then people who are more sensitive to
| perturbations of fate. The society they live in sets the base
| level of grittiness that you can expect any average person to
| be equipped with.
|
| Dahl here is a very hardy man who approaches these issues in a
| very practical and logical way. But this was also in the post
| WW2 era where millions died, people lost their families and
| possessions, and had to start their life anew. It was a period
| of rebuilding after the devastation of war and hard times build
| hard people.
|
| Today, all this feels like too much because we were all mostly
| born and brought up in wealth and prosperity. We have not seen
| any real hard times and there is no need for mettle.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| My sympathy for Roald Dahl can only go so far given his rabid
| antisemitism.
| morkalork wrote:
| The fascinating thing about Roald Dahl is that the children's
| books he wrote are the least interesting thing about his life and
| when you try to tell anyone about it they just look at you
| dumbfounded because it sounds so unbelievable.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| His two autobiographical books a still a really good read
| today, and they only cover his life up to about world war 2,
| which he was extremely lucky to survive. Dan Stevens does a
| good job narrating the latest audiobook versions my library
| has.
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| I was shocked to learn that he was not only a fighter pilot,
| but also married an academy award winning actress and
| coinvented a valve used to help brain damage patients recover
| GJim wrote:
| > not only a fighter pilot
|
| He wasn't "only" a fighter pilot.
|
| He was a fighter Ace, having five confirmed air-to-air kills.
| (And possibly more unconfirmed in the Battle of Athens).
| morkalork wrote:
| When he was young, instead of going to university he went to
| work for Shell in Tanzania and learned to speak Swahil while
| living there. And after being pilot, he worked as a
| diplomatic attache/spy for BSC in washington and was friends
| with FDR. He also got to know Ian Flemming during that time.
| Basically living a posh lifestyle of wining and dining
| important people while funneling any intelligence he learned
| back home.
| Red_Comet_88 wrote:
| I am thankful that there are some challenges that providence has
| deemed fit to deny me.
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| I think your confusing providence with medical science in the
| form of vaccinations, blood thinners, and Mr. Dahl's
| contributions to hydrocephalus relief
| praptak wrote:
| Science is great but there are still plenty of diseases and
| lots of other stuff that leads to tragedies.
|
| If you happen not to have to deal with any of this, it is
| still just providence.
| croes wrote:
| Chance
| praptak wrote:
| Yes, providence is metaphor/personification of luck.
| croes wrote:
| It's hard for me to distinguish between meant as metaphor
| and meant literally.
| khazhoux wrote:
| The providence of being here and now, a time where those
| exist, a country where good medical care is available, and
| the means to afford it.
| cafeinux wrote:
| A child could die from cancer or from falling while playing,
| and no vaccination or blood thinner can prevent this. I can
| understand op's reference to providence in not having to face
| these tragedies.
| croes wrote:
| I think parents means not dying from measles thanks to
| vaccines.
|
| One risk less.
| mmaunder wrote:
| I had no idea Roald's life was mired in such tragedy. Stephen
| King's book on writing is autobiographical and worth a read.
| Similar revelations if you don't know much about him.
| nxobject wrote:
| I can see a little bit about what inspired the "spark" of his
| children's books - love, but also a need for escapism, normal but
| heroic figures in the middle of bewildering and impossible
| situations, nurturing. It think Danny, Champion of the World, was
| the first children's book he wrote approximately after this time
| period?
| nxobject wrote:
| In these times the saddest tragedy here is that Dahl was so
| preoccupied with medical care and expertise for his family - and
| the one time he let up, his daughter died because his brother-in-
| law thought "let the girls get measles[...] it will be good for
| them".
| jessekv wrote:
| Lots of people still think this way about chickenpox, and I
| have no idea why.
|
| In the US, vaccination for it is prevalent for years now (in a
| rare win for preventative health there).
|
| Many other countries: "Chickenpox (and risk of shingles) will
| be good for you..."
| croes wrote:
| Are you sure?
|
| It seems quite the other way around.
|
| Some other countries just lack the possibilities to vaccinate
| while the US could but people refuse in favor of ,,natural"
| immunity.
|
| Hence two dead children because of measles.
| Smithalicious wrote:
| Here in Europe, or at least in the Netherlands where I grew
| up, chickenpox isnnot vaccinated for, and of course the
| reason is not "lacking the possibilities".
|
| I don't have a stance on the matter, other than "I and
| everyone I know caught chickenpox as a kid and we turned
| out alright".
| croes wrote:
| In Germany it's recommended by the Vaccination Commission
| jessekv wrote:
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6605725/figure/F
| 000...
|
| Germany is one of the blue ones.
| croes wrote:
| I'm astounded especially because of the long term risk of
| shingles
| stevenwoo wrote:
| AFAIK, we in the USA are still recommended to get the
| shingles vaccination, which has two shots, after age 50,
| and it's only effective for 7-10 years.
| em500 wrote:
| The Dutch health council advised against including
| chickenpox vaccination in the standard vaccination
| programme in 2020 for the European Netherlands (but pro
| vaccination for Dutch overseas territories in the
| Caribbean). The advise (in Dutch) can be found under
| "advies Vaccinatie tegen waterpokken" [1].
|
| I don't have an opinion on whether the council properly
| weighted all the costs and benefits. I just want to
| include this reference make the point that the Dutch
| policy stance is not based on lack of means or on
| ignorance of our politicians or health authorities. The
| advice includes plenty of references to many
| international studies and experiences with chickenpox
| vaccination.
|
| [1] https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/documenten/adviezen/20
| 20/10/0...
| JetSetWilly wrote:
| You have it the opposite way round. The UK (for example)
| never gave a chickenpox vaccine because it reasoned to do so
| _increases_ the risk of shingles, and shingles is more
| serious than chickenpox. Also chickenpox is so mild that
| administering a national vaccination programme is of dubious
| benefit, the money can be more effectively spent elsewhere.
|
| The JCVI might have recently changed recommendation but
| whether it is worth the cost/benefit is another matter.
| lol768 wrote:
| The latest JCVI recommendations are here:
| https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-
| varicel...
|
| The shingles vaccination programme (for older adults) has
| existed since 2013.
|
| The JCVI recommendation from 2023 took into account new
| evidence that had emerged since the original decision in
| 2009, using a new model to evaluate cost-effectiveness and
| better evaluate the impact on QALY from infection.
|
| The original 2009 reasoning's decision is available here: h
| ttps://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20130107105
| ...
| lordnacho wrote:
| That is surprising to me. Here's what I could glean:
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/two-for-one-
| chick...
|
| For me it was a no-brainer. For a small amount of money, I
| avoid the kid being bedridden for potentially weeks, and
| the kid avoids scarring from the disease. Even though it
| isn't going to kill the kid, it's still awful to be ill.
|
| Shingles won't be a problem for a long time afterwards, and
| medicine will advance. There's already shingles vaccines.
|
| So it was an easy decision to spend about 100 pounds on
| vaccinating each kid.
| secondcoming wrote:
| Isn't scarring caused by scratching?
|
| I remember parents wanted kids to get chickenpox as early
| as possible so they could put mittens on them so they
| wouldn't scratch themselves.
| fumeux_fume wrote:
| > "Let the girls get measles," he told her, "it will be good for
| them."
|
| Eerily ominous.
| amelius wrote:
| I suspect they strolled into the wrong part of the internet.
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| Damn this is so painful to read
| praptak wrote:
| It is, yet I still feel I'm better off having read it. A real
| life person having this kind of strength in the face of tragedy
| makes one more optimistic.
| bosky101 wrote:
| I had no idea. Was most of his work before or after these
| tragedies. Hope he had a peaceful death himself financially not
| in turmoil.
|
| I hope most of the pain and death we see in the world today seem
| like solved problems many years from now. Much like the health
| issues faced by his family.
| vr46 wrote:
| We could do with wider knowledge of a complicated man. My
| friend's husband wrote a fabulous play about a short period in
| Dahl's life centred around antisemitism, which was directed by
| Nicholas Hytner at the Royal Court. I suspect that it was done to
| improve public relations after various overblown controversies
| there, but that is not to take away from the writing and
| performance.
|
| The other context around Israel invading Lebanon in 1982 was
| given to me (I was too young at the time to have a clue about
| anything) by another (Jewish) friend, a biographer of Primo Levi,
| who said, "I believe Israel had the sympathy of the world until
| they invaded Lebanon," in a conversation about how those who
| claim to be virtuous by invoking victimhood.
|
| Dahl never invoked that himself, but with wider knowledge of his
| life and a more critical view of Israeli history, we can see what
| a complex polarized mess this is with little chance of redemption
| for either, although it is interesting that one man has generated
| disproportionate column inches compared to a country.
| lolinder wrote:
| Whether or not Dahl was influenced by the behavior of the state
| of Israel, he extrapolated his hatred towards a group of
| people. It's not really more complicated than that: it's wrong
| to be anti-Russian because of the actions of Putin, it's wrong
| to be anti-semitic because of the actions of Israel.
|
| Whether or not you agree with the state of Israel's actions in
| recent years, it's very concerning to me to see comments like
| this that seem to justify or explain away racial hatred. You
| have to disentangle the two.
| grayhatter wrote:
| Is it wrong? The rest of the world is worse because Americans
| picked the current administration. I have a hard time
| articulating the reasons they shouldn't hate Americans in the
| abstract for their (our) selfishness.
|
| Apply the same to hyper aggressive bees. The hive is the only
| thing dangerous, but you correctly say you hate bees, not
| this specific hive, or this specific bee.
|
| I personally hate the (ficticious rhetorical) culture of the
| southern states because I disagree with their position and
| beliefs about human rights and other ethical problems. Am I
| wrong to do that? What nuance am I unable to see?
| mulnz wrote:
| I take this point but would offer that the culture you
| reference is also quite real. By contrast, in southern
| cities you will find some of the most impassioned
| progressives you'll ever meet. There is nuance.
| eldaisfish wrote:
| The difference is agency or choice.
|
| A Jewish person has no agency in their ethnic or cultural
| heritage. US citizens do have a choice in voting and US
| citizenship can be revoked. You cannot change your
| ethnicity.
| UltraSane wrote:
| US citizenship cannot be really revoked for natural born
| citizens. The US can't really make someone stateless
| because where would you deport them to?
| bpreece wrote:
| Yes it is wrong. You don't punish any one individual for
| something another different individual has done. This is a
| basic moral principal. Half of US voters voted against
| Donald Trump. The chaos and pain he causes is not on them.
| Many Jews were appalled and angered by the invasion of
| Lebanon. They're not responsible for what the Israeli
| government did. Humans are not bees. We don't have a queen,
| we don't have a hive mind. This group think, that Americans
| should all be judged as a whole, that Jews are all an
| indistinguishable mass, is the very definition of bigotry
| and prejudice. This is what MLK meant when he said we
| should be judged by the content of our character, not the
| color of our skin. I am me, not whatever group you want to
| toss me into. So, yes, it's wrong.
| grayhatter wrote:
| > Humans are not bees. We don't have a queen, we don't
| have a hive mind. This group think, that Americans should
| all be judged as a whole, [...] is the very definition of
| bigotry and prejudice.
|
| I don't agree with this. The behavior of a hive is
| distinctly different from the behavior of a bee. The way
| a hive behaves is bigger than the sum of the actions of
| the bees. The US as a country also has this same emergent
| intelligence to it.
|
| > [...] an indistinguishable mass, is the very definition
| of bigotry and prejudice.
|
| You'll notice I said hate Americans, and not hate Sally,
| or Bobby, or Jane. I'm not targeting nor blaming
| individuals, I agree with you, that is wrong for me to
| assign someone into a group they don't belong in. But is
| it wrong to hate the behavior and intent of said
| grouping? Is it wrong to blame people who willingly self-
| select to associate with said group?
|
| Quoting from above
|
| > it's wrong to be anti-Russian because of the actions of
| Putin
|
| Is it? If I'm mad at Russia, so I refuse to interact with
| any russian company. That's being anti-russian, I'd
| assume? Is that wrong?
|
| What if I don't like the family next door because they
| lived in Russia before the moved to the US. That would be
| wrong; until I point out they're still proudly Russian,
| and they support their former country. Then is it wrong
| to dislike them in that case? That's still anti-russian,
| no?
| bpreece wrote:
| > You'll notice I said hate Americans, and not hate
| Sally, or Bobby, or Jane
|
| I don't even know what this means. What does it mean to
| hate Americans if you don't hate, you know, Americans,
| like Sally or Bobby or Jane? What exactly are you hating?
|
| You don't hate Americans, you hate Trump and his cabal.
| You hate the people who voted for him. Good for you. Do
| you also hate the Americans who voted against Trump
| because of the ones who voted for him? If yes, then
| that's absolutely bigotry. If no, then you could just as
| rationally say you love Americans, because, I mean, look
| at all the Americans who opposed Trump?
|
| You say you don't hate Sally or Bobby or Jane, but that's
| exactly what you do when you hate Americans.
|
| > That's still anti-russian, no?
|
| No. That's anti-fascist, or anti-authoritarian, or anti-
| belligerent, or anti-whatever it is about their support
| that you don't like. That's judging them as individuals
| because of what they as individuals think. Disliking them
| just because they're Russion, regardless of that they
| think about Putin's government, that would be bigotry.
| UltraSane wrote:
| "I have a hard time articulating the reasons they shouldn't
| hate Americans in the abstract for their (our)
| selfishness."
|
| I'm an American you truly hates Trump and is suffering
| under his rule as mach as anyone.
| mock-possum wrote:
| I think what they meant is it's wrong to be anti-Russian,
| while nonetheless being anti-Russia, because of Putin.
|
| Individual Russians may or may not have much to do with
| Purim's invasion of Ukraine - the same way individual
| Americans may or may not have much to do with Trump's
| fumbling of supporting Ukraine's defense efforts.
| vr46 wrote:
| I think therein lies the complexity of the problem when the
| state itself maintains a population record where citizenship
| and nationality have been separated, and "Israeli"
| nationality does not exist, only "Jewish" exists. I believe
| this was also confirmed by the Supreme Court there in order
| to ensure a clear link or bond between all Jewish people all
| over the world. Anyway, what do I know.
|
| I am not trying to explain away Dahl's comments, merely
| illustrating the complexity underlining all these arguments,
| and especially ones which allow Israel and its lobbyists to
| swarm over the arts in the UK and bully them if showing any
| sympathy for the Palestinians, which is no better than the
| torrent of antisemitic abuse meted out when there's sympathy
| for Jewish people.
| woodruffw wrote:
| > and "Israeli" nationality does not exist, only "Jewish"
| exists
|
| This is facially untrue: there are over two million non-
| Jewish Israeli nationals[1].
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
| vr46 wrote:
| This article underlines the point I made. Israel
| maintains separate data on citizenship and nationality on
| their population, and "Israeli" is not a "nationality" in
| that database. Of course Arab nationals of Israel have
| "Israeli" on their passports, but they are not "Israeli"
| in that database.
| woodruffw wrote:
| There are two different things here: what non-Jewish
| citizens of Israel identify as, and what their functional
| status is. The first is a component of the world's most
| intractable conflict; the second is a question of
| nationality in the most basic sense: citizenship,
| identification on passports, etc.
|
| The second sense is the one I'm interested in, and in
| that one there are plenty of non-Jewish Israeli
| nationals. They have every right (and plenty of cause) to
| not identify as such, but that's the situation as it
| concerns citizenship, voting rights, etc.
|
| TL;DR: nationality gets used with at least two different
| meanings in the I/P conflict; one is intractable and the
| other is straightforward. The straightforward is worth
| remembering, because far-right Israelis have a vested
| interest in eliminating it and imposing an ethnic
| definition of nationality.
| dralley wrote:
| It's complicated but I think what they're getting at is
| that the national demographics / census data for Israel
| does not have an "Israeli" nationality.
| pydry wrote:
| >and "Israeli" nationality does not exist, only "Jewish"
| exists.
|
| This lie lies at the heart of all of the state's attempts
| to color fundamentally anti genocide, anti genocide and
| antiracist criticism of the state as anti semitic.
|
| The country does not represent Jews, just a rather
| abhorrent form of racism.
| williamsmj wrote:
| Were the "various overblown controversies" when he said "There
| is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity,
| maybe it's a kind of lack of generosity towards non-Jews. I
| mean there is always a reason why anti-anything crops up
| anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn't just pick on them
| for no reason"?
|
| Or when he said the United States is "utterly dominated by the
| great Jewish financial institutions over there"?
|
| Or when he said "I am certainly anti-Israel, and I have become
| anti-Semitic"?
|
| Or are there others?
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/07/opinion/l-roald-dahl-also...
| vr46 wrote:
| No, not Dahl, the Royal Court - they had a character/villain
| in a play, Rare Earth Mettle, with a Jewish name, which I
| think is hardly the theatre's fault, and previously a play by
| Caryl Churchill in 2009.
| y-curious wrote:
| I don't understand how either of those, said in the mid
| 1900s, get the man cancelled in 2025. We have heard these
| thoughts countless times in modern day to less reaction.
| like_any_other wrote:
| Do you think he based these opinions and observations on
| nothing?
| secondcoming wrote:
| He wrote two books about his life, 'Boy' and 'Going Solo'
| drc500free wrote:
| I'm trying to understand this comment. Are you saying that
| Dahl's antisemitism is ameliorated by the fact that Israel
| attacked the PLO in Lebanon? And are you claiming that
| journalists have written more about Roald Dahl's antisemitism
| than about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians?
|
| I'd like to read what you're saying in the most graceful way
| possible, but it really sounds like standard antisemitic
| beliefs about how it's really the Jews' fault that people are
| antisemitic, and that they control the media anyway.
| jonstewart wrote:
| One of Dahl's surviving daughters, Ophelia, cofounded Partners In
| Health with Paul Farmer. I highly recommend Tracy Kidder's
| _Mountains Beyond Mountains_.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophelia_Dahl
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Came here to post this as well. A truly inspirational book.
| felixyz wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles:_A_Dangerous_Illness
|
| > "Measles: A Dangerous Illness" is an open letter written by the
| children's writer Roald Dahl in 1986 in response to ongoing cases
| of measles in the United Kingdom at that time despite the
| introduction of an effective measles vaccine in 1968.
| UltraSane wrote:
| writing about your son's penis like that is weird as hell.
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