[HN Gopher] Body Doubling
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Body Doubling
Author : yamrzou
Score : 130 points
Date : 2025-03-04 17:54 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (bodydoubling.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bodydoubling.com)
| thih9 wrote:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20250116111830/https://bodydoubl...
| kubb wrote:
| Is this common? Maybe that's one of the reasons that people push
| for RTO, they can't work alone?
| jethro_tell wrote:
| When I was in office, I had a lot of trouble working even
| though I am most productive while body doubling. The overhead
| lights, the random interruptions from people that know you or
| want something from you . . .. After I got to campus, I spend
| most days down at the coffee shop, or a local cafe or something
| of that nature.
|
| Being around people, with distractions removed was the key for
| me. Just me, and my laptop.
|
| As for how common it is? IDK, but I don't see RTO as being the
| key (might work for some people?).
|
| When I was work from home, I was a lot more productive by
| myself, however when I found I had a really tough project that
| I was having trouble starting, a couple hours of body doubling
| at a local cafe tended to help. I.e., I'm going to the coffee
| shop for 2 hours to do this one task.
| MPSimmons wrote:
| Oh man, I work so well in a busy cafe. I'm not sure what
| quality it is, but being around a bunch of people who aren't
| bothering me with questions allows me to get into flow.
| jethro_tell wrote:
| The quality is probably pretty good. This is called body
| doubling and is exactly the concept here.
| kube-system wrote:
| Yeah, being in an office is only helpful if people you are
| working with understand and respect your desire to focus.
| jrmg wrote:
| It's anecdotally definitely one reason people work in co-
| working spaces, or even coffee shops and the like.
|
| Some people think these are just used by people who have no
| quiet space, or no comfortable space, at home - but that's not
| the case.
| viraptor wrote:
| You don't need the physical presence though. Find another
| neurospicy person at work and you can do it with them remotely.
| escapecharacter wrote:
| The reasons that managers/execs push for RTO are complex, and
| sometimes disingenuous and nefarious.
|
| As someone who's worked remote (and async) and also in big
| offices, sometimes I see individual workers celebrating RTO for
| misguided reasons:
|
| 1. They use work as a social space
|
| 2. They enjoy the break of getting out of their house/from
| family/partner
|
| 3. The ritual of going to and from work as a separate space is
| helpful
|
| All of these are solvable without mandating RTO, so it is
| frustrating when workers align themselves with RTO mandates
| when they could just solve the above.
|
| 1. Sometimes people don't pursue friendships outside their work
| or family. You should! It is healthy!
|
| 2. I sometimes see people not set boundaries during work days,
| and have their own partners not respect their boundaries
| ("please don't come in my office when I'm on a call"). Here,
| they're leaning on RTO to set a boundary on their behalf.
|
| 3. During WFH in 2020-2021, I set a ritual where I'd go for a
| walk around the block with a coffee before returning to my
| small Manhattan apartment. I used Phillips Hues to change the
| lighting to colder when in work mode.
|
| Offices are a bonus when you live near to them, but mandating
| their usage is crazy. If workers don't feel happier and more
| productive when going into an office, and recognize it as an
| advantage for them doing work, then execs should recognize that
| the office is lacking somehow.
| jfengel wrote:
| We sometimes decry the lack of "third places", neither home
| nor work (or school). People go there to be social in more
| flexible ways. I have imagined opening a coffee shop/art
| gallery by that name.
|
| Maybe not such a great name now, since the second places are
| getting murkier. But the need is still there.
| cguess wrote:
| There's a (very good) brewery with an (excellent) tap room
| in Milwaukee named Third Space Brewing, not such a terrible
| idea. https://thirdspacebrewing.com.
|
| I've setup and worked there many afternoons when I've been
| in Wisconsin. The drinking culture is different in the
| upper Midwest though, it's not party thing (always) as much
| as a social activity. You're not expected to get drunk,
| think France and wine.
| bitwize wrote:
| My mom grew up in Wisconsin, in a farm town that was
| little more than a crossroads with a church, a school
| (K-8, high schoolers went to the nearest big-town high
| school), a post office... and a bar. The bar was for the
| farmers to meet and socialize over a beer. As you said,
| not really to party, just have human contact and find out
| what else is going on in the area.
| iwontberude wrote:
| I like that RTO keeps my job exclusive and I get paid more
| for being willing to come in and rub shoulders with
| management. I work for my family and to create a better life
| for them -- not for some abstract goal of having the most
| productive environment (to enrich much larger shareholders
| than me). I paid a lot of money to live close to these places
| for work and now I'm reaping the benefit.
|
| No pain no gain, basically.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| It's not real helpful to label a bunch of fairly ordinary.
| useful, and healthy, aspects of work _misguided_ and then
| offer no alternative suggestions to address your points.
|
| You go for a walk, live in a tiny apartment in Manhattan, and
| use lighting colour to give a sense of 'work place'.
|
| Well guess what, your circumstances probably don't
| generalise.
| escapecharacter wrote:
| I'm sure my own rituals don't generalize, but are you
| saying that the alternative to that is mandatory RTO?
| harrison_clarke wrote:
| office hours is something i consider a positive, when looking
| at a job. i get that i could/should solve those things on my
| own, but it requires executive function and i'd much rather
| outsource some of it
|
| with both the social and the walking thing, i find it easy to
| get stuck in a negative feedback loop, where not doing it
| makes it harder to do it. having a work-mandated minimum walk
| and social time prevents stalling, making it easier to
| maintain the habits outside of work as well
|
| this perspective might be flavoured by being neurospicy,
| though. presumably, if i wasn't prone to stalling my habits
| that way, it'd be less appealing to tie them to a job or
| shcool or whatever else
|
| (i currently work remote, though. office is positive, but not
| positive enough to outweigh the salary difference of working
| for a local company)
| BurningFrog wrote:
| That people have different needs than you doesn't mean
| they're misguided.
|
| People want what they want, not what you or I think they
| should want.
| neal_jones wrote:
| I like the walk around the block with a change in lighting. I
| always preferred an office within a 20 minute walk or bike
| ride but considered a similar walk around the block approach
| even writing from home but never got the routine set.
| cratermoon wrote:
| I wouldn't say "the break of getting out of their house/from
| family/partner" is misguided. I remember during COVID wfh, my
| co-workers with spouses and kids were not at all happy having
| all those people together all day, trying to accomplish tasks
| on different schedules and needs for quiet or collaboration.
| Add to that most of them didn't have a set up for two adults
| to work in one office space, and all of them trying to share
| the home internet.
| cwalv wrote:
| I'm not sure how common this is, but I would guess most people
| experience it to some degree.
|
| I've worked remotely since 2013, and love the convenience, but
| still need to get out from time to time. I've noticed this in
| an office setting as well. After ~4 years at my first job,
| every day in the same room and with the same ~10 people, I
| noticed that the change in atmosphere at my 2nd job (which had
| many/varying people in proximity) made it easier to focus.
|
| I don't know if it's that people are there as much as it is a
| change of scenery, but when a place is bustling it makes it
| feel like it's constantly changing.
| conductr wrote:
| I feel like I'm opposite of this camp or have some excessive
| attention disorder but not on the spectrum or anything either.
| I just can't focus at all in this situation, can't work in
| coffeeshops, could never study in libraries, can't
| multitask/read/study/create/etc if the TV or radio is on. My
| brain is kind of single threaded.
|
| I don't even like using productivity tools or todo apps beyond
| just listing things at a high level on a post it / white board
| so I don't forget about something and can prioritize/sort them.
| Creating daily goals and breaking things down into bite sized
| actions just seems like a waste of time doing what is obvious
| to accomplish the larger objective IMO.
|
| That said, I do like working in the an out-of-home office. My
| home does pull me off my screen and I end up tinkering in the
| yard, cleaning the pool, etc. throughout the day at the expense
| of GSD
| dominicq wrote:
| Haha that's me. My wife has a photo of me mixing concrete
| while on a call.
|
| Same re productivity tools. I just use text files to write
| things down - extremely high level, never in detail. Always
| seemed like a waste of time tbh.
|
| I feel like I don't even know why some days I can focus, and
| some I can't. It seems to be completely arbitrary. Sometimes
| I'll have the most perfect conditions and it'll be impossible
| to start working.
|
| But I've never, not once, managed to work with the TV on.
| conductr wrote:
| Good to know I'm not alone haha! I also have some of the
| concrete pouring type moments. I built a pool house last
| Spring during work hours in between and during meetings. I
| was able to do my actual productive work in evening after
| kids went to bed. Helps that I'm more of a manager than an
| individual contributor but nobody at work even noticed.
|
| Also same productivity comes in bursts for me. Sometimes
| I'll start the week off with a bang and get everything I
| needed to done on Monday. I'll even go all night if I'm in
| this flow state. Then I will sleep until noon and take a
| leisurely pace the rest of week. Other weeks i
| procrastinate until im forced to get something done on
| Friday. Because I know this about myself, I try to think of
| work life one week at a time.
| AJ007 wrote:
| This is funny, I've been running remote companies for mostly
| the last 20 years (with physical offices during some of the
| time.) When I first saw the coworking concept and the inside
| of a WeWork I thought none of these people are working, they
| are just screwing around.
| nmstoker wrote:
| I'm just like this too - you end up aware of all sorts of
| things you definitely don't want to know/care about in the
| environment, be it a coffeeshop, library, office space etc.
| orthoxerox wrote:
| Anecdotally, I was incredibly productive for a few weeks after
| switching to forced WFH in 2020. I didn't want to look
| lazy/bored around my wife, so I did every accumulated task on
| my list.
|
| Now I use my biweekly office day to clear my backlogged tasks
| for the same reason: if you want to look busy, might as well
| work.
| cratermoon wrote:
| Nope, not with today's open plan offices. Body doubling works
| because both people involved are aware of support each other's
| intention and focus. At work you're all there for the same
| reason, broadly speaking, but you may have radically different
| and conflicting tasks. There's no way everyone can be fully
| accommodating of everyone else's needs. Plus, the environment
| is some unpleasant aggregate of barely tolerable for everyone:
| noise levels, temperature, lighting, ergonomics.
|
| Want me back in the office? Give me _an office_ , with one,
| maybe two, office mates that I get along with. A door I (we)
| can close when needed.
| pj_mukh wrote:
| Shoutout https://www.flow.club/
|
| Fantastic body doubling service
| epolanski wrote:
| I don't feel I should pay for such a thing.
| CrisR wrote:
| then don't I made one and the free tier is generous enough
| that most people just stick to the free (much to my despair)
| ^.^
| chrchr wrote:
| See also http://focusmate.com, http://focus101.com,
| http://caveday.com, and many more!
| CrisR wrote:
| focus101 is totally the best one and I'm not saying that
| because I built it :D
| pj_mukh wrote:
| Tried most of them! Caveday is just too many people in a room
| and the rest are really awkward just one-on-one. Flow club
| hits the midpoint, with 4-8 people in there, everyone has
| stated goals and it's obvious when someone is missing their
| goals.
|
| It can still be a liiitle hit or miss depending on the club
| host. But a good host on a pomodoro session with actual
| verbal check-ins is 100x better than coffee.
| mellosouls wrote:
| Focusmate discussed on HN before, eg.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21352305
|
| _Focusmate - Virtual Coworking Helps You Get Things Done_ ,
| 64 comments
| nickthegreek wrote:
| Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33478562
| (November 5, 2022 -- 325 points, 199 comments)
| satvikpendem wrote:
| This is a concept primarily for people with ADHD by the way, if
| you're not in this target group you might not understand why it's
| needed, as we already see in this thread.
| rickyyean wrote:
| If this concept resonates, https://www.flow.club/ is where
| you'll find people who practice this technique regularly. We
| use it to do everything from the work we care about and want to
| be even better at, to work we don't care for like taxes, bills
| and laundry but have some mental block or emotional resistance
| to.
|
| I think people with ADHD are hyper attuned to the effort that
| goes into everything from the moment we wake up (related term:
| executive dysfunction), so we look for ways to facilitate
| "doing." Other people who have similar levels of awareness tend
| to be self-employed (your time costs you), working parents
| (limited time and energy) and graduate students (long-term
| dread), but not everyone. And no, I don't think this is a
| purely remote work issue.
|
| With all the AI discussion I'll just take a moment to talk
| about humans. HN probably thinks anything having to do with
| other humans are yuck especially on the internet and would be
| proven right most of the time. But humans and internet-mediated
| humans can also be great if the product does a good and careful
| job to allow their best parts shine. That's why we love HN and
| admire dang, and we try to make https://www.flow.club/ another
| awesome human corner of the internet.
| VonTum wrote:
| I'm just so tired of this VC urge to monetize every possible
| aspect of human interaction. You're selling yourself as a
| "community", but instead of actually doing that you lure
| people in with a free trial, to then use the friendships
| people make to lock them into a ridiculous 40EUR/month
| subscription.
|
| Sorry, but I'm not paying 3x a netflix subscription for what
| amounts to little more than a glorified discord bot.
|
| Actually, now that I look for it, I found this exact product
| as a discord server. And would point people there instead:
| https://discord.com/invite/study
| pj_mukh wrote:
| Mentioned this below as well. Seconding Flow Club. I don't
| have ADHD, but am just a new parent and god having an
| "appointment" w/ other people for deep work changes
| everything.
|
| Shoutout to Ricky and co!
| pinkmuffinere wrote:
| I've been doing this for a long time, calling them "study
| parties". It works quite well for me. I wonder if this is some
| sort of indication that I have adhd, or if it's just a
| generally effective strategy.
| miftassirri wrote:
| everyone needs a friend
| non- wrote:
| I used to host weekly virtual co-working for founders who needed
| some accountability. We got a lot done during those sessions and
| ultimately met my co-founder through it. Later today we'll be
| body doubling virtually to get our taxes done together.
| pinkmuffinere wrote:
| Why do you say "used to host"? What made you stop?
| wustus wrote:
| I've noticed this quite a few times before when working with my
| systems administrator: He calls me in for a debugging session of
| a problem he's been stuck on for some time and within a few
| minutes (or less than a minute) he finds the solution. I've
| always seen it as him having to reorganize his thoughts to give
| me a somewhat structured introduction into the problem. And
| somewhere along the path he finds the missing piece.
| zeta0134 wrote:
| Attempts have been made to replicate this effect, with limited
| success, through the use of a rubber duck:
|
| https://rubberduckdebugging.com/
|
| The general idea is to first try explaining your problem to the
| duck, which is thought to activate the same problem
| restructuring pathways. However, I've always found that a human
| makes for a much better rubber duck in practice. Something
| about the immediacy of the conversation helps my brain to stay
| on task and not get distracted partway through the explanation.
| yrcyrc wrote:
| This, absolutely. Can totally relate.
| conductr wrote:
| This happens to me too but I also find taking a walk is all
| that I need and often try not to drag other people into it
| hinkley wrote:
| Rubber ducking works better with a live duck.
| matthewmueller wrote:
| I find this also works when you go to coffeeshops that have a lot
| of people working
| smoghat wrote:
| I am the exact opposite. I used to hear about people going to
| coffee shops and doing work and I would go there and I'd just
| be completely distracted by everything around me. I was forced
| to work in an open office for a while and I would have to leave
| early and risk getting in trouble so that I could get work done
| at home.
| nilslindemann wrote:
| I can confirm this. As soon as there is someone else near me, I
| become productive. When I am alone I have no big motivation to do
| anything.
| kadushka wrote:
| I'm complete opposite.
| dbtc wrote:
| Me too. For example, if there was someone nearby I wouldn't
| be on here typing these words.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I'm the same way; every time I read about body doubling, it
| feels like it's written by an alien who's trying to trick me
| into _something_.
| nickvec wrote:
| Site takes like 10 seconds to load. Did HN give it the kiss of
| death?
| bitwize wrote:
| A friend of mine used to call me with technical/programming
| issues. He would explain the problem on the phone and suddenly
| come up with the solution, then thank me profusely even though I
| didn't really do anything. I don't know whether he was an ADHD
| case or not, but I thought he was, and he used to speak with a
| pronounced stutter especially when excited. Spending any time
| with him would make clear why: thoughts and ideas came at him so
| fast they were difficult to serialize through speech.
|
| Anyways, I'm not sure whether this is "body doubling" or "rubber
| ducking", or even if there isn't significant overlap between the
| two concepts.
| stavros wrote:
| I happened to do this at work with a coworker, and it was
| fantastic. I immediately went from being able to get nothing done
| to being able to be productive.
| deadbabe wrote:
| If you need to practice body doubling it's suggested you don't go
| into a career doing knowledge work because you will likely have
| to spend a lot more time working alone.
| viraptor wrote:
| It's suggested by who? The alternatives may be worse, or not
| available in some way to a person.
| aidog wrote:
| See also https://adhdactually.com/membership Basically moderated
| by a small team zoom sessions to body double.
| rco8786 wrote:
| This was the only way I could study in college. I had "study
| groups" but in reality all we did was sit quietly next to each
| other working through our own material. Worked amazingly.
|
| I'm not ADHD, but that's probably a bigger discussion
| joshdavham wrote:
| I've intuitively know about 'body doubling' for years but had
| never heard the term. I've just always understood that I tend to
| get the most work done in coworking spaces and cafes and not when
| I'm at home by myself.
| idonov wrote:
| This reminds me of https://www.focusmate.com/
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| You don't necessarily need the person to be there. My house is
| never cleaner than after I've been on the phone with a friend. My
| mind shuts off, my body does all the chores I've been
| procrastinating, while my friend does her art, and we both catch
| up on life.
|
| Comparatively, working in a coffee shop does not make me get more
| work done, I just feel better.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| I haven't read the article yet, but is it about body weight
| doubling?
| cautious-fly wrote:
| Any difference between this and https://www.focusmate.com ?
| tetris11 wrote:
| I used to get more done within an hour on the sofa next to my ex
| watching her shows, than I did in the four hours preceding it at
| my desk.
|
| As a single guy now, I have the "leisure" to stretch my work
| hours far longer into the night and I get just as much done as
| when I was with her.
| Kirth wrote:
| That's one hell of a term to mean being afraid of being alone.
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