[HN Gopher] Ultrasonic deep drawing cuts friction by 20%, extend...
___________________________________________________________________
Ultrasonic deep drawing cuts friction by 20%, extends tool lifespan
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 73 points
Date : 2025-03-05 00:31 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (techxplore.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techxplore.com)
| zeckalpha wrote:
| Sonic lubricant!
| mmastrac wrote:
| It took a while to parse this headline.
|
| (Ultrasonic (deep drawing)) : (((cuts friction) by 20%) &
| (extends (tool lifespan)))
|
| Apparently "deep drawing" is a metallurgic process.
| SecretDreams wrote:
| It just means you're stretching and pulling in sheet metal to
| make a shape with depth. A simple one would be aluminum cans.
| kadushka wrote:
| Deep drawing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_drawing
| Etheryte wrote:
| That's interesting, why is it called drawing when the actual
| motion is pushing or pressing? I would've expected drawing to
| mean pulling by means of vacuum or similar.
| ghostly_s wrote:
| It's only pushing from the perspective of the punch.
| snitty wrote:
| Blacksmiths draw out metal by pushing with their hammers.
| Same thing.
| WJW wrote:
| The blank (typically just a flat disc) is wider than the
| finished product and so the metal that will eventually form
| the wall starts outside the perimeter of the finished
| product. When the punch moves downwards, it hits what will
| become the bottom and then "draws in" the rest of the
| material. Hence the name.
|
| See https://www.manufacturingguide.com/en/deep-drawing for a
| graphical illustration.
| samstave wrote:
| This would be fun: Put an AI bot with an input and a Deep Draw
| output with Protein Folding logic to make a cellular wall...
|
| ("make a deep draw wall based on protein folding
|
| This is fun:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/JRCE4Xr.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/aEgNRih.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/4w8H9Tg.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/FE6GkJH.png
|
| I need to work on it though.
|
| ---
|
| https://i.imgur.com/ORc6ueK.png
|
| https://i.imgur.com/ClH4Coy.png
|
| ----
|
| https://i.imgur.com/CTslAxE.png
|
| ------
|
| https://i.imgur.com/pUhSGho.png
|
| I need to attempt in Cursor or Windsurf Agent mode and have it
| build a scene
|
| =====
|
| https://i.imgur.com/vQm92yC.png
| samstave wrote:
| https://i.imgur.com/xvRBSBO.png
| shove wrote:
| This has my gears turning wondering what other ultrasonic
| "lubrication" applications might be possible. Potentially a whole
| world of industrial and mechanical improvements.
| WJW wrote:
| I'd think that the pressure in these forming operations would
| be too great for the ultrasonics to really matter, but
| apparently not. If they can scale it up to things like
| extrusions it could be a big deal.
| TimSchumann wrote:
| Didn't know the people behind the mp3 format were into tooling
| for metalworking. Guess it makes sense, it involves a practical
| application for use of sound, and they are a research
| institution.
|
| I wonder if the metal can hear the difference if it's not the
| full 192 kHz.
| rat9988 wrote:
| I'm not sure we can call it "the people behind the mp3 format".
| Fraunhofer is a very big instituion.
| simne wrote:
| May be "PeopleS behind the mp3 format"? :))))
|
| Really, I hear in early 90s, how Telefunken developed PAL TV
| standard (and also RGB, YUV and some other things, now you
| could read about on Wikipedia).
|
| - They working like Gallop - asked people from street, to
| answer simple questions like "is this color Red or Yellow?",
| and with large number of samples they got statistical
| approximation, about curves of sensitivity of human eye, and
| then just use these approximation as direct wavelengths for
| Red/Green/Blue respectively.
|
| Fraunhofer, as I know, used similar approach, but for sound,
| and got model of sensitivity of human ear.
|
| So, what I want to say, for these researches don't need many
| scientists, but need wide enough sample and good reliable
| execution of math.
|
| BTW, much later I read about research conducted in US air
| forces, targeting some ideal human pilot size to made most
| convenient plane control (and sure cheapest).
|
| But they got so disappointing results, that have decide to
| make pivot - instead of make one standard size, they designed
| usual for us now adjustable chairs, tilting steering wheel,
| and pedals with adjustable suspension.
| jlg23 wrote:
| That's not the same group. "Fraunhofer" is not a single group
| but the umbrella organization for 76 different institutes:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_Society
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| This reads like a press release. Is there any actual information
| available?
| chaboud wrote:
| It's actually just jargon-ified. When pressing a piece of sheet
| metal into a die (concave form) with a punch (convex form) to
| stretch and compress the metal into a deep shape (e.g., a cup,
| can, etc.), using ultrasound to induce some wiggles can reduce
| the chance of tearing, likely allowing for less material use
| and greater yield rates for a machining process.
|
| Basically, if you're forming metal with high force, give it
| some high speed micro-wiggles and things will be better.
|
| This should feel pretty natural for folks who have tried to
| squeeze into skinny jeans after Thanksgiving.
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| I actually understood the jargon fine. It just felt like a
| puff piece.
| squeedles wrote:
| Deep draw makes a lot of parts, including your soda cans. If they
| can roll it out in practice, this is a big deal.
|
| And yes, to the MP3 commenters, Fraunhofer has many centers doing
| lots of industrial research on manufacturing technology. The
| German research approach is to pick a topic and set up a
| Fraunhofer institute in particular city for that, whereas the US
| has NSF, DARPA, DOE, the national labs all working Willy Nilly
| with whoever, wherever. MP3 was done mostly at the Fraunhofer in
| Erlangen. I've worked on CNC things with the Fraunhofer folks in
| Aachen and elsewhere.
| hinkley wrote:
| About twenty years ago the big discovery in pressing sheet metal
| was electromagnetism. It let them make deeper dies, and I believe
| generate less heat and wear with existing dies.
|
| I wonder if these solutions compose, or if the magnets were
| introducing ultrasonic noise.
| contingencies wrote:
| Not a physicist, haven't done ultrasonic drawing but have
| experimentally designed and tested ultrasonic polymer welding
| systems from scratch. Ultrasonic energy transfer is impressive
| but it has a lot of downsides: including but not limited to high
| sensitivity to target geometry, input vector, pressure, and feed
| rate. I guess in a deep draw application near-uniform pressure
| distribution and feed rate are both guaranteed but the input
| vector may be very expensive to iterate. I guess maybe these wins
| are documented on thin materials with custom tooling for
| ultrasonic input and the additional cost of tool design and
| energy input is not computed. Perhaps a subset of this technique
| may become popular, for instance application to outermost draw
| profile edges where perhaps tears are more common and access
| remains easier, which might enable more generic and portable
| (nominally draw punch and die independent) ultrasonic input.
| mikewarot wrote:
| It sounds like they've managed to include a non-thermal form of
| annealing[1] into the press/stamping process. A quick Google
| shows that this seems to be an area of much closed research and
| trade secrets.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibratory_stress_relief
| namuol wrote:
| This reminds me of fluxless ultrasonic "active" soldering which
| allows for bonding metals to ceramics and otherwise difficult
| metals: https://youtu.be/WuYdsStS1MQ
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-03-08 23:00 UTC)