[HN Gopher] AI models makes precise copies of cuneiform characters
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       AI models makes precise copies of cuneiform characters
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2025-03-04 19:01 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.cornell.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.cornell.edu)
        
       | yannis wrote:
       | Very interesting approach and perhaps a good step towards
       | transliteration and translation of cuneiform tablets. Code and
       | links for paper at https://github.com/TAU-
       | VAILab/ProtoSnap/tree/main
        
         | frozenport wrote:
         | It looks very adhoc
         | 
         | So ideally the ml network would solve the problem end to end
         | but these authors seem to be using a network for only one step
         | of their otherwise classic image processing pipeline
        
           | bravura wrote:
           | What a smear.
           | 
           | A lot of applied work in vision and audio glues together
           | different existing modules, instead of training the whole
           | thing end-to-end.
           | 
           | In an ideal world, things are ideal. But the world isn't a
           | grad student's wet dream.
           | 
           | But there are not as many influential papers in the world as
           | there are people who respond: "Why didn't they train the
           | whole thing end-to-end?"
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | "Ideally they'd solve the whole problem, but it looks like
           | they just solved one part of the problem"
        
       | instakill wrote:
       | Nice, now can any cuneiform nerds that have an interest in Ramses
       | III guide me to any quote that roughly translates to "violence is
       | necessary against Isfet". For the life of me, I cannot seem to
       | find any reference to it although I've got it in my notes from...
       | somewhere?
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | Grok 3 says "For instance, in the Poem of Pentaur, a
         | propagandistic account of the Battle of Kadesh, Ramses II is
         | depicted as a heroic figure restoring order against the chaotic
         | Hittite forces. While it doesn't say "violence is necessary
         | against Isfet" verbatim, the subtext is that decisive action,
         | including violence, was justified to crush disorder and uphold
         | Ma'at."
         | 
         | (It had earlier defined Ma'at as "order, balance, and justice")
        
       | CaffeineLD50 wrote:
       | Awesome.
       | 
       | Now that archeologists are more productive with AI they can fire
       | 20% of the staff over hired during covid, and give massive
       | bonuses to the executives running museums and archeology
       | departments.
       | 
       | Archeologists who stay can expect smaller stock grants, too.
       | 
       | Now get back to work before Elon gets here and demands 60+ hr
       | workweeks and requires all 401k plans to be converted to
       | DOGEcoin.
       | 
       | Because a man who hypes Social Security "as a ponzi scheme" knows
       | that crypto is a _good business proposition_.
        
         | qoez wrote:
         | You should take a month break from reading twitter for your own
         | health
        
         | thechao wrote:
         | Translation of cuneiform is limited by the number of people who
         | know the different Semitic and nonsemitic languages. Bulk
         | transcription of the texts just makes the amount of material
         | available to translate even more overwhelming.
         | 
         | The real revolution would be AI reconstruction of the 3d
         | fragments and filtering of the bulk documents (receipts) from
         | the interesting historical augments. (Hate mail, spam, poetry,
         | death threats, omens, math, etc.)
        
           | showerst wrote:
           | The real revolution would be an end to end machine
           | transliteration to translation pipeline.
           | 
           | ...Which will require lots of sample data for all the steps.
        
             | wbl wrote:
             | Humans learn these languages from tiny samples+structured
             | practice and dictionaries. Research required but AI could
             | be similarly low info.
        
         | 77pt77 wrote:
         | Not the place for that.
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | 'Because a man who hypes Social Security "as a ponzi scheme" '
         | 
         | The only thing that differentiates Social Security from a
         | typical Ponzi scheme is that a typical Ponzi scheme is now
         | illegal.
         | 
         | Neither Boomers, Gen x, nor gen y, are paying enough
         | contributions to meet their demands and are instead relying on
         | contributions from future donors.
         | 
         | That is indistinguishable from what Ponzi did.
        
       | Isamu wrote:
       | This is essentially OCR (optical cuneiform recognition) which can
       | have specific challenges because the signs are 3 dimensional
       | depressions in clay and present differently depending on the
       | lighting and shadows which can be all over the place. The output
       | is sort of standard rendering, it looks like they preserve the
       | layout.
       | 
       | Direct link to paper which has good illustrations: https://tau-
       | vailab.github.io/ProtoSnap/
        
         | geokon wrote:
         | Chinese stele's are famously turned 2D through ink rubbing.
         | Wonder if that'd simplify the task and at least provide a more
         | consistent image to work off of (as compared to a randomly
         | illuminated photo)
         | 
         | Or another intermediary would be to train a model to transform
         | photos to rubbing and have a more standard representation to
         | work off of before training to recognize characters
        
           | wbl wrote:
           | The material of most inscriptions is dried clay: rubbing
           | isn't possible without damage AFAIK.
        
             | Retr0id wrote:
             | You don't have to do the rubbing physically - if you can
             | 3d-scan the surface you could do it digitally. But, giving
             | the AI _less_ information to work with sounds like a step
             | backwards.
        
       | chpatrick wrote:
       | Could you fine-tune a VLM that already does OCR well on
       | cuneiform?
        
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