[HN Gopher] Europe's most wanted man plotted my murder and that ...
___________________________________________________________________
Europe's most wanted man plotted my murder and that of my colleague
Author : dralley
Score : 188 points
Date : 2025-03-07 19:28 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (theins.press)
(TXT) w3m dump (theins.press)
| sva_ wrote:
| The life of Jan Marsalek would make for a good movie plot, but at
| the risk of glorifying the crimes he committed.
| ez_mmk wrote:
| There's king of stonks a German comedy series on Netflix
| inspired by Wirecard
| MarcelOlsz wrote:
| You can't make a movie about something without glorifying it.
| There's no such thing as an anti-war movie as Truffaut said.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| not sure I agree with Truffaut; I think that Platoon and Born
| on the Fourth of July, for example, are quite good at _not_
| glorifying war
| thomassmith65 wrote:
| Yes, it's hard to think of anything in 'Born on the Fourth
| of July' that would leave a viewer more enthusiastic about
| war.
|
| * The main character's enthusiasm to enlist is portrayed as
| irritatingly naive and ridiculous.
|
| * The combat centers around the main character accidentally
| killing innocent villagers and a fellow American soldier.
|
| * The main character winds up paraplegic, impotent,
| incontinent.
|
| And all this happens before Willem Dafoe even shows up.
| matmatmatmat wrote:
| Some more examples: Saving Private Ryan, All Quiet on the
| Western Front, The Deer Hunter.
|
| Personally, I would also include Schindler's List.
| tschwimmer wrote:
| If you watch Come and See and are excited about war
| afterwards, you aren't smart or introspective enough that
| external media has a meaningful effect on your thoughts
| anyway.
| financltravsty wrote:
| Or you're psychotic
| mikrl wrote:
| Starship Troopers is the darling du jour online for this
| phenomenon.
|
| A movie lampooning militarism, xenophobia and... armoured
| supersoldiers grinding through bugs and taking their
| resources? Sounds cool.
|
| Compare to games like Factorio and Helldivers 2. About 1% of
| the time I think "wait, am I the baddie?" and the rest is
| just raining down technologically enhanced Armageddon to
| further my mineral stockpiles.
| worik wrote:
| Starship Troupers, the book, was explicitly pro war.
| astrange wrote:
| The movie is not really based on the book. It's
| supposedly a parody of it, but the director literally did
| not read the book, so it's actually a parody of what he
| assumed it was about.
|
| (eg "service guarantees citizenship" is presented as a
| fascist idea the movie is parodying, but IIRC in the book
| you could get it by being a mailman.)
| barrkel wrote:
| It's less a parody of what the book was about and more a
| parody of Nazi Germany - and showing what great fun and
| how exciting war is to the kids.
| crooked-v wrote:
| > but IIRC in the book you could get it by being a
| mailman
|
| No, it's explicitly noted in the book that the civil
| service options are supposed to be at least as unpleasant
| as being a soldier - even if that means inventing useless
| make-work for someone unable to perform other duties. The
| explicit example given is that a blind man with only a
| single functioning limb might be given the duty of
| counting hairs on caterpillars by touch on a cold moon
| base for his full tour of service.
|
| Of course, that's leaving aside the basic problem that
| the idea only works in an idealized abstract state where
| nobody in the basically unaccountable government ever
| indulges in even a little bit of nepotism when it comes
| to who gets picked for or promoted out of certain kinds
| of drudge work.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| I really hate Verhoeven about what he did to the book.
| jajko wrote:
| Hollywood probably can't make one (and most recent US war
| movies are unwatchable outside US due to all over the top
| pathos that just looks ridiculous), but deeper topics and
| inconvenient stances are often better explored ie in European
| or other cinema.
|
| Do you feel ie recent All Quiet on the Eastern Front
| glorified war, or people involved? That book is even more
| powerful.
| swat535 wrote:
| > There's no such thing as an anti-war movie as Truffaut
| said.
|
| This is an absurd statement, can you expand on this?
|
| Have you never seen The Pianist, Schindler's List, Come and
| See, ..?
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| Interesting. Did he say that before or after _Paths of Glory_
| came out?
| einarfd wrote:
| Jan Marsalek would make a great Bond villain.
| DaOne256 wrote:
| There are at least two Wirecard movies, one with the
| "Stromberg" actor and the other one is a documentation.
| daedrdev wrote:
| I love how when the FT broke the story, the german government
| investigated the FT for attacking their champion. If they had
| instead investigated, Jan Marsalek, who seems to really be a
| foreign agent, he might not have evaded the authorities.
| perihelions wrote:
| https://www.ft.com/content/4ebd9032-d3d1-4a9e-976c-d1235448e...
| ( _" German prosecutor drops Wirecard investigation into FT
| reporters_")
|
| https://archive.is/l5j76
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19737795
|
| It's really astounding incompetence/dysfunction.
| marcinzm wrote:
| >It's really astounding incompetence/dysfunction.
|
| The word is probably "corruption."
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| It's only recently that Germany has considered Russia a
| threat. You would think Russia's attempt to destroy their
| economy would be a sign to move away from Nord Stream.
| immibis wrote:
| In both the USA and Germany, people in power do not care
| about the well-being of their country as long as they can
| enrich themselves. They even both use the same
| fearmongering about immigrants to get votes.
| astrange wrote:
| Germans aren't corrupt so much as psychotically trusting.
| Basically a country of scam victims who'll listen to anyone
| who wants them to shut down nuclear plants, buy Russian
| gas, conquer Europe, etc.
| lajosbacs wrote:
| This is so well put, I have much admiration for Germans,
| but they just feel so gullible.
| pavlov wrote:
| Germans revered a business leader who turned out to be a
| Russian asset. But at least they accepted the evidence
| when it was presented.
|
| Americans elected a president who behaves exactly like a
| Russian asset. And no evidence could make them change
| their mind about it.
|
| Who are the gullible people again?
| dwattttt wrote:
| Both of them. The two groups you named.
| drdaeman wrote:
| If the discussion is about A, and, let's suppose, some
| P(A) is true, if P(B) is also true, but discussion never
| mentions B - what's the point of _solely_ bringing the
| fact of truthfulness of P(B) into the picture?
| pavlov wrote:
| Because P(A) is suggested as being unique to A?
| bloomingeek wrote:
| I agree and I'm from the states. History will be unkind
| to trump and the GOP, who are playing with people's lives
| and fire.
| jajko wrote:
| Lack of critical thinking I'd say, inward and outward.
| Gaping hole in nation's education system, just listen to
| what higher level says.
|
| I have one german colleague with whom we dicuss sometimes
| deeper topics. He confirmed what I thought - germans, at
| least his generation, are/were raised to feel utterly
| responsible for WWII atrocities of their ancestors. I
| don't mean having objective information without the push
| to make them feel morally superior or ignoring
| inconvenient truths like ie russians always do, no I mean
| a very heavy guilt burden pushed on all young folks, who
| then don't have a clue how to process that.
|
| Then they are stunned into any action even when a
| murderous nation is clearly trying to subvert and destroy
| their society and does very direct attacks against
| infrastructure. Anything, literally anything including
| losing without a fight, apart from actually standing up
| and fighting back aggressor. And rest of EU goes where
| germans go, can't ignore that massive influence. 3 years
| of brutal unprovoked war seems barely enough to move the
| needle at least a bit as we saw in recent elections.
| Delomomonl wrote:
| We are trying to trust. That's a difference.
|
| Give trust to get trust
| preisschild wrote:
| Also, Austrian politicians from the party which has a
| friendship contract with Putins party, helped him escape from
| EUrope.
|
| And those morons had almost 30% of votes last election, but
| fortunately didn't get into government because no other parties
| wanted to work with them under their conditions.
| thgsF179 wrote:
| This article needs an editor. I've no problems believing that
| Marsalek is a Russian agent, but Bellingcat is of course funded
| by the National Endowment for Democracy ...
|
| Scandals in Germany are frequent. Olaf Scholz was investigated in
| the cum-ex scandal, von der Leyen in the McKinsey German army
| affair (von der Leyen had ruined the German army and has now a
| big mouth for rearmament).
|
| In general and not related to these specific cases, certain
| actions by certain politicians are easier to explain if a third
| party has kompromat on them.
| wadim wrote:
| > but Bellingcat is of course funded by the National Endowment
| for Democracy ...
|
| Spooky! No need to be coy, say what you are implying.
|
| Additionally, do you have a source that they ARE being funded
| solely by NED (which is currently impossible anyway) and didn't
| just receive some funding that one time? Not sure what
| advantage they gain being such an obvious "CIA front", but I'm
| also not playing 5D chess.
| 4hagstR wrote:
| According to the common theory, the advantage is that the CIA
| can release material via Bellingcat that would be unwise to
| release directly.
|
| "Obvious" does not matter. The majority of mainstream media
| quotes them as an authoritative source and never investigates
| the NED connection. Whenever the connection is brought up, it
| is likely that someone will play the conspiracy theory card.
| So it can all be done in the open and 99.99% of people will
| never know.
|
| That is the theory.
| wadim wrote:
| Wanna hear my theory? The FSB employs trolls to try
| undermine anyone who is critical of the great Russian
| regime by posting stupid conspiracy theories online. They
| often have to create new accounts, because old ones get
| banned quickly and frequently.
|
| 3 people, 2 of whom have accounts created just today for
| this thread, post something negatve towards Bellingcat
| without any proof. Crazy coincidence.
| 4jahdg wrote:
| These theories were entirely normal in 1990-2022, when
| the West was still allowed to discuss its own issues
| without Ukrainian online dominance, intimidation,
| interference and mud slinging.
|
| I dream of an Internet where both Russians and Ukrainians
| are cut off, so we can resume our democracies.
| iuyhtgbd wrote:
| Those "two" new accounts are probably the same person,
| I'm sure that paid trolls occasionally drop in on HN, but
| HN has plenty of native trolls doing it for the love of
| the game (or out of sincere ideological commitment).
| hengheng wrote:
| > von der Leyen had ruined the German army
|
| Not on her own, and not during her time. From what I
| understand, she felt she needed those external consultants to
| cut through the noise of her own org. Which had become known as
| an ineffective, design-by-committee place with no purpose other
| than to cover ones own asses.
|
| Running that place (BMVg and Baainbw) was famous for being an
| unwinnable job. I dont love VdL, but I don't think this should
| be construed as her career failure.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _I 've no problems believing that Marsalek is a Russian
| agent, but Bellingcat is of course funded by the National
| Endowment for Democracy_
|
| One, in part. Two, are you challenging Bellingcat's
| credibility? On what grounds other than affiliation? They've
| been pretty spot on with all of their calls to my recollection.
|
| Three, if you don't like Bellingcat, maybe check out Marsalek's
| Wikipedia page's source list before creating a throwaway
| account to post a comment.
| astrange wrote:
| > I've no problems believing that Marsalek is a Russian agent,
| but Bellingcat is of course funded by the National Endowment
| for Democracy ...
|
| One of the most consistently useful lessons I've learned online
| is that you can spot uninformed low-trust dismissals because
| they're always based on how someone is "funded" by someone else
| or advise "following the money" but their theory of how this
| works either doesn't exist or is obviously wrong.
|
| Very common in /r/science for instance. They won't read a paper
| or check if it's preregistered etc. but they will complain if
| it was sponsored by someone at all associated with the topic of
| the paper.
| not2b wrote:
| The National Endowment for Democracy was only one of many
| sources of funding for Bellingcat, and apparently a minor
| one. They used Kickstarter to get off the ground, and most of
| the grants listed on Wikipedia appear to be European. They
| get a lot of contributions from individuals as well.
|
| See
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellingcat#Funding_and_support
| worik wrote:
| What clowns
|
| This what happens when despots concentrate power in their hands
|
| When professionalism matters less than loyalty, the professionals
| become scarce
|
| In the 1950s there was Soviet ideology that meant something. Now
| there is loyalty to Putin.
|
| Makes me weep to see the same thing happening in the USA.
| Ideology can be problematic (I do not miss the Bolsheviks) but
| loyalty to the Big Man is much more random, and worse
| saalweachter wrote:
| > In the 1950s there was Soviet ideology that meant something.
|
| You mean, after Stalin died in '53?
| ctrlp wrote:
| It struck me as stupid and pointless to poison Navalny. Why
| bother? His presence seemed a nuisance at worst and a useful foil
| at best. Is there just something in the Russia soul that can
| resist assassination plots by poison?
| rat9988 wrote:
| It is for future navalnies.
| evertedsphere wrote:
| pour encourager les autres
| preisschild wrote:
| Same reason they killed the pilot that defected to Ukraine in
| Spain: They want to deter future critics/defectors. Thats why
| their OPSEC for those operations is so bad: they want people to
| know it was them.
| jajko wrote:
| You can't make more visible public executions than throwing
| people out of windows in centers of cities. Modern public
| guillotine, gets a lot of press too. Message is clear to all,
| the goal is to be shocking and not subtle.
| entropyneur wrote:
| Are you referring to 2020 attempt or the 2024 murder? He was a
| lot more than just nuisance in 2020 and could have become the
| gravity center for future anti-war sentiments. In 2024 Putin
| murdered him just because he wanted to and there was no
| downside.
| amarcheschi wrote:
| This is well beyond worrying. Just today I was arguing with other
| people here on hn who told that the pro Russian candidate who was
| arrested was a bad sign for democracy. The guy that was sponsored
| by literally the Kremlin, who routinely does things like planning
| to kill journalists
| inverted_flag wrote:
| Russia is winning the information war, unfortunately.
| jcmp wrote:
| its crazy to me, how the author describes that they broke in his
| flat and stole an old laptop of a relative, like its an absolutly
| normal thing. He seems like he just accept its and moves on.
| throwaway_20357 wrote:
| I am surprised Dobrokhotov was still traveling to Russia after
| the Navalny publication and Grozev felt safe holidaying in
| Bulgaria. There is this interesting FT interview from August '23
| where he predicts Prigozhin's death and hints at changes to their
| security after they were declared "foreign agents".
|
| [1] https://archive.is/L6UNc
| t_luke wrote:
| The first paragraph misstates the nature of the Wirecard fraud.
| The money wasn't 'siphoned off', it never existed in the first
| place.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-03-07 23:00 UTC)