[HN Gopher] Revolt: Open-Source Alternative to Discord
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Revolt: Open-Source Alternative to Discord
        
       Author : OuterVale
       Score  : 569 points
       Date   : 2025-03-06 08:47 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (revolt.chat)
 (TXT) w3m dump (revolt.chat)
        
       | unification_fan wrote:
       | Pretty cool. I just wish it had its own identity and didn't look
       | like Walmart Discord.
        
         | rokkamokka wrote:
         | I'm all for good UI/UX spreading as much as possible for the
         | benefit of users.
         | 
         | That said, I've barely used discord and thus can't rightly say
         | if it has good UI/UX.
        
           | drpossum wrote:
           | Do you have other opinions about the UI/UX of apps you
           | haven't used?
        
         | gingersnap wrote:
         | Mom: "We have Discord at home"
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdUWZga7T7Q
        
       | high_na_euv wrote:
       | I hope the communities/servers arent self-hosted because that
       | would be shot in the knee, cuz this is security issue
       | 
       | TeamSpeak and Ventrilo were like that
        
         | Underphil wrote:
         | Is it beyond to you seek out that information before
         | commenting?
        
           | high_na_euv wrote:
           | I didnt manage to find it on their page, so I guess it is
           | centralized like dc
        
         | no_oneimportant wrote:
         | how tf can something be a server if its not selfhosted
        
           | high_na_euv wrote:
           | Discord servers arent self hosted
        
             | gibibit wrote:
             | Discord servers are not servers.
        
       | m00dy wrote:
       | They will have a better stack than Discord once they migrate to
       | Tauri.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | At first glance it's hard to even tell them apart, did they
         | copy literally all of the CSS and layout?
        
         | pas wrote:
         | It seems the progress for that stalled. (Last commit 5 months
         | ago
         | https://github.com/revoltchat/frontend/tree/main/packages/de...
         | )
        
       | mogoh wrote:
       | So, how does it compares to matrix/element?
        
         | gunalx wrote:
         | I was wondering whether this was just a matrix client the
         | entire front page. I dont see why you wouldn't utilize the
         | matrix ecosystem with an already usable userbase when trying to
         | recreate discord. If i would want something opensource i would
         | also want something decentralized.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | > I was wondering whether this was just a matrix client the
           | entire front page. I dont see why you wouldn't utilize the
           | matrix ecosystem with an already usable userbase when trying
           | to recreate discord.
           | 
           | Judging by the FAQ, they see Matrix as a protocol as "obtuse
           | and unstable":
           | 
           | > Does Revolt have federation?
           | 
           | > As of right now, Revolt does not feature any federation and
           | it is not in our feature roadmap. However, this does not
           | necessarily mean federation is off the table, possible
           | avenues are:
           | 
           | > Implement the Matrix protocol (unlikely, obtuse and
           | unstable)
           | 
           | https://developers.revolt.chat/faq.html
        
             | freeamz wrote:
             | It is hard to get E2E (device 2 device) right. I get matrix
             | is not perfect, but I have jet seen an open source
             | alternative with both server/client implementation that get
             | it right.
             | 
             | One thing about matrix is that every device has a key in
             | addition to the password, that key in in addition encrypted
             | with another password, it makes it very difficult for
             | average user, but then just use matrix in unencrypted mode
             | to get the slack/discord effect.
        
               | ranger207 wrote:
               | If Revolt is a Discord alternative, then they may have
               | chosen not to implement E2E because their intended
               | audience generally doesn't care for it and the UX is too
               | confusing for a marginal perceived benefit
        
           | BrenBarn wrote:
           | Matrix definitely has problems. I'm not sure if Revolt solves
           | them (and it likely has problems of its own) but I'd say
           | there's room for multiple approaches.
        
           | 42lux wrote:
           | Because matrix isn't the savior everyone makes it out to be
           | it's rather the opposite.
        
       | peterjaap wrote:
       | So you have the chance to redesign Discord and you decide to
       | stick with the unicorn-puking emoji-littered eye-scorching UX/UI
       | garbage that Discord is? Interesting.
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | I mean, if you are looking for a Discord alternative, isn't the
         | design/UX part of what you're looking for? If you want
         | something that is the opposite of what you describe, IRC still
         | exists and works well, but not sure many end-users would call
         | it an alternative to Discord.
        
           | OptionX wrote:
           | That and I assume if its open-source you can make clients
           | that look like whatever you'd want.
        
           | spacechild1 wrote:
           | > isn't the design/UX part of what you're looking for?
           | 
           | I think this applies to the original target audience, namely
           | gamers, but as a general purpose chat application, e.g. as a
           | support channel for software projects, the UI design of
           | Discord is indeed atrocious.
           | 
           | Of course, this begs the question why these projects adopted
           | Discord in the first place. I guess the lack of a better
           | alternative (that is not self-hosted)?
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | > as a support channel for software projects, the UI design
             | of Discord is indeed atrocious.
             | 
             | Why is that?
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | They use it because Discord works well and simply, with a
             | rich feature set, that's largely free. And yeah, there
             | aren't FOSS alternatives that actually match up.
        
         | bilekas wrote:
         | I prefer IRC over Discord any day but it's very hard to
         | convince other people not familiar with it to make a move away
         | from Discord to it.
         | 
         | When people get used to certain features they generally don't
         | want to give them up.
        
           | Mashimo wrote:
           | > When people get used to certain features they generally
           | don't want to give them up.
           | 
           | Yeah, I would find it hard going back to not having a offline
           | history and drag 'n drop file upload.
           | 
           | Having to host your own bot for pagetitle preview and user
           | management was also not fun.
           | 
           | You can selfhost your IRC client, which eliminates som of the
           | drawbacks but that also only works for a small portion of
           | people.
        
             | bilekas wrote:
             | > Yeah, I would find it hard going back to not having a
             | offline history
             | 
             | It's funny but I personally prefer that the IRC server
             | isn't required to store every chat log indefinitely. You're
             | right though, these are solvable problems, BNC for example
             | but we're getting a little off topic.
        
         | bryanhogan wrote:
         | I think Discord, especially when it was new, had amazing UX and
         | UI. Nowadays it definitely became bloated and new features
         | don't integrate that well into the existing UI, but it is still
         | on a perfectly useable level, currently.
        
           | hbosch wrote:
           | Discord's UX is a testament to the fact that people will
           | learn complex systems if they believe all parts of the system
           | are valuable. This is the same truth as, for example,
           | spreadsheet software.
           | 
           | The only thing "bad UX" means anymore is that you have parts
           | of your app that people don't find valuable, and you're
           | showing it to them anyway.
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | > So you have the chance to redesign Discord and you decide to
         | stick with design that appeals to normal humans rather than
         | turbonerds? Interesting.
        
           | Yizahi wrote:
           | I saw 100+ community force migrate from Telegram to Discord.
           | Most of the people complained about UI/UX, me included. And
           | Telegram is not even very good in that area. Normal people
           | are not fond of Discord UI specifically, they just get used
           | to it.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | And do you think a Discord community force-migrated to
             | Telegram wouldn't have their own UX complaints? This is
             | gonna happen almost no matter what platforms you're talking
             | about, people are used to their thing and don't like seeing
             | it forcibly changed.
             | 
             | > Normal people are not fond of Discord UI specifically,
             | they just get used to it.
             | 
             | Disagree. I think most people are pretty okay with it,
             | maybe not in love with it, but they don't see it as
             | particularly bad in most respects either. I use Google's
             | corp chat for work and my god, Discord is SO much better
             | than that it blows me away.
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | Honestly I much prefer
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat
         | 
         | Edit: Bonus, it comes with its own font!
        
       | weberer wrote:
       | >To ensure users stay safe on the platform, we explicitly
       | disallow:
       | 
       | >Misinformation & Conspiracy Theories
       | 
       | >Spreading false or misleading information that can cause harm to
       | individuals or society is prohibited. This includes conspiracy
       | theories that have been debunked or lack credible evidence.
       | 
       | Why? That sounds so dumb to waste resources policing it.
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | They did not say they are policing it.
        
           | Almondsetat wrote:
           | What is the point of disallowing without policing?
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | Probably same as most other social platforms. Selective
             | enforcement, virtue signaling, a tool to use when they get
             | bad press for a server.
        
               | Almondsetat wrote:
               | I mean, bad press will chastise you even if you actually
               | _enforce_ stuff
        
         | jisnsm wrote:
         | It's really fucking boring how every platform that hosts speech
         | tries to nudge you in their direction these days.
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | I don't know why everyone think's they have a right to say
           | and behave however they want using someone else's services.
           | 
           | If the platform or provider don't want to associate with you,
           | that's their prerogative.
           | 
           | The hubris to assume otherwise is ridiculous.
        
           | bryanhogan wrote:
           | No platform can allow you to 100% say whatever you want, just
           | how it has limit to what it can enforce. Every platforms has
           | to balance this fact. It is impossible to enforce clear
           | borders on this as well, as human interaction is endlessly
           | complex.
        
             | jisnsm wrote:
             | They can allow you to 100% say whatever you want as long as
             | the law allows them to host your speech. If they try to
             | limit you beyond that, they are censoring you, which is
             | what is occurring here.
        
               | crtasm wrote:
               | Anyone that feels this type of moderation is censorship
               | can use/host an instance with different rules.
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | Why are you opposed to running your servers the way you want?
           | Why do you support people that don't run your servers
           | controlling what you can and cannot say?
        
         | jeffhuys wrote:
         | Who determines what's credible or not? This sounds like "if we
         | don't like what you have to say, you're gone".
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | And why is that a bad thing ? That's the free market. The
           | business owns the platform and you don't have an innate
           | 'right' to be there.
        
             | weberer wrote:
             | Why is it a good thing? What's the motivation behind it? It
             | just seems like a really unnecessary restriction to have
             | when you're trying to launch a FOSS alternative existing
             | software.
        
               | bilekas wrote:
               | It's a good thing because it gives companies autonomy to
               | do what they want (within the law). It's your
               | responsabilita to take it or leave it.
               | 
               | The alternative is an oligarchy type model where you are
               | bound to the whims of some external party.
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | Why are you opposed to running your servers the way you want?
           | Why do you support people that don't run your servers
           | controlling what you can and cannot say?
        
         | alwayslikethis wrote:
         | This sounds like a violation of freedom 0, if this extend to
         | the software you run (self hosted).
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | This is for content on Revolt.chat itself. You can download and
         | host your own servers and allow people to lie all you want. But
         | on the servers they control, they can decide what they allow.
         | 
         | Why are you opposed to running your servers the way you want?
        
       | Mashimo wrote:
       | The github https://github.com/revoltchat
        
         | cies wrote:
         | This is sorely lacking on the homepage! All FLOSS is expected
         | to link to the source from the homepage.
        
           | internetter wrote:
           | > All FLOSS is expected to link to the source from the
           | homepage.
           | 
           | Says who? I don't see that in the OSI definition
        
             | cies wrote:
             | Go to ten FLOSS project and check. Some want to be able to
             | quickly assess some tings (is this JS/PHP/Python, or is
             | this Rust/Go -- my interest).
             | 
             | Someone posted the github link here on HN: why would that
             | be?
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Nobody but I don't believe any company saying their product
             | is open source if they aren't willing to point me to where
             | to find the code right away.
        
           | Mashimo wrote:
           | Yeah, I had to click around a bit to find the link. Oddly it
           | was only on the discover page for servers I found it. Bottom
           | left corner https://rvlt.gg/discover/servers
           | 
           | But now I also know where to go if I'm in need of a femboy
           | community.
        
             | MK2k wrote:
             | front page, scroll down, there's Developers - Source Code
        
           | JFingleton wrote:
           | Agreed - I usually scroll to the bottom of landing pages to
           | see the Github link - which Revolt did not have. Perhaps a
           | suggestion to the developers?
           | 
           | It's an unwritten rule :)
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | Not at all when the software is not developer focused.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | May even be required, if you have a license that requires
           | sharing the code along with the product (AGPL). Still not
           | sure why that license isn't more popular, isn't it in the
           | open source spirit that you can get the code whenever you use
           | the product? Same as when you get the binary with GPL
           | license, that you have a right to see what code you're
           | running?
        
       | croisillon wrote:
       | haha i had to laugh at the language selectors:
       | {flag:uk} English (traditional)            {flag:us} English
       | (simplified)
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | An old joke, but a good one.
         | 
         | Shoutouts to Noah Webster for "opinionatedly curating" British
         | English from an inconsistent crufty unspellable mess to a
         | randomly tweaked version of the same thing.
        
         | jeffhuys wrote:
         | How to quickly lose a few potential users.
        
           | roblabla wrote:
           | Other people might say it's a great way to self-moderate its
           | network.
        
           | gooseus wrote:
           | lol, or how to easily filter out a few users who can't take a
           | joke.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | With emphasis on _few_. I 'd wager less than 0.01% of
           | potential users would be butthurt enough by that joke to
           | avoid the platform as a whole. And the ones who got butthurt,
           | probably better off not having them on the platform in the
           | first place.
        
           | another-dave wrote:
           | It seems strange that someone would be offended by the US
           | variant being called "simplified" spelling -- wasn't that the
           | whole point?
        
             | freeopinion wrote:
             | Maybe they meant people who don't want to be considered
             | traditional...
        
             | acomjean wrote:
             | I'm an American and not offended in the least. It is
             | simplified (color vs the obviously incorrect UK variant
             | colour). Gray va grey. y'all is a great addition to the
             | Simplified English.
             | 
             | Despite being told long ago by a drunk English visiting
             | student that "the language is English not American" I'll
             | stand by our American simplification! Lamentably this
             | simplification seems to be backtracking our political
             | system...but hey we're going from Discord to Revolt!
        
           | aredox wrote:
           | Can't handle "locker-room banter"?
           | 
           | You won't be missed.
        
           | csomar wrote:
           | It's open source.
        
           | shaky-carrousel wrote:
           | It's not a loss.
        
           | piva00 wrote:
           | Fragile egos that can't take such a innocuous joke are not
           | really a loss in the overall scheme of things though.
        
           | fatata123 wrote:
           | Ones that are offended by a lighthearted joke. Sounds like a
           | plus
        
           | anonzzzies wrote:
           | How to quickly show you have no sense of humor.
        
         | roenxi wrote:
         | I also spot "That's the website, you can't scroll further." in
         | large, helpful letters. These people seem to have a pretty
         | solid sense of humour. Mild enough it is difficult to take
         | offence to, playful enough to add character.
         | 
         | Hope they do well; I dislike closed source chat programs.
        
           | jorvi wrote:
           | Rather than open or closed source programs, let's have
           | interoperability. Then everyone can choose. I believe
           | Facebook was aiming for something like that with Threads, and
           | was playing to have WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger be open
           | to a specific standard as well?
           | 
           | I fondly remember the days of Pidgin and Adium..
        
             | pjerem wrote:
             | > I fondly remember the days of Pidgin and Adium..
             | 
             | You may like https://www.beeper.com/
             | 
             | And if you are nerd/privacy conscious enough, though their
             | app and cloud service is proprietary, it's based on Matrix
             | and open source bridges which you can have a full list here
             | : https://github.com/beeper
        
             | Qdulf wrote:
             | The push for messenger interoperability is a reaction to
             | the EUs Digital Markets Act (DMA), which requires certain
             | gatekeeper services to allow interoperability with smaller
             | platforms.
             | 
             | Threads is working on implementing ActivityPub for
             | interoperability with other platforms that already use it.
             | ActivityPub is an open standard for implementing the
             | Fediverse, a group of federated social platforms heavily
             | based in the open source community.
        
               | LorenDB wrote:
               | Nope, Matrix has been pushing interop for years (since
               | the late teens).
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | Not like it's new, though? The Internet is literally
               | interoperating networks, emails hop from server to server
               | until they reach the user-specified destination server,
               | DNS delegates zones to other servers. These are protocols
               | older than I am, and I've had a driver's license for
               | longer than Matrix exists. Their push is amazing but not
               | by any means unique
        
             | NullifyNAN wrote:
             | This is literally the old Microsoft playbook for destroying
             | open source software. "Embrace, extend, extinguish".
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
             | 
             | They did it with XMPP and Windows live messenger in the
             | 2000s.
             | 
             | At the end of the day these companies have no incentive to
             | be responsible stewards of open protocols. The moment they
             | have a tough quarter they'll eviscerate it if it means
             | they'll make a buck.
        
               | sshine wrote:
               | MS Comic Chat was built on top of IRC.
               | 
               | I'm happy IRC is still around in spite of that.
        
             | Arkhaine_kupo wrote:
             | > let's have interoperability.
             | 
             | Should be mandatory. Things like facebook took off because
             | of network effects not because of the quality of the
             | platform. Being able to migrate all your contacts/ chat/
             | tweets/ etc somewhere else seemlessly should be enforced by
             | the gov to allow for actual competition. else you end up
             | with first player advantage and network effects being
             | unsurmountable and creating de facto monopolies with 0
             | benefit for the customer, in an environment that has low
             | set up costs and you should see fierce competition.
        
             | guappa wrote:
             | Proprietary services are interoperable in the beginning and
             | then stop.
             | 
             | Both facebook and google supported XMPP but that's no
             | longer the case. Slack supported XMPP and IRC, but that's
             | no longer the case.
             | 
             | It's completely pointless to expect proprietary stuff to be
             | interoperable. It requires constant reverse engineering and
             | remember that they have money to throw away to hire
             | developers to make breaking changes to the protocol
             | constantly.
        
               | zacwest wrote:
               | Facebook never federated so their implementation was just
               | an API they couldn't control to them:
               | 
               | > Facebook Messages are evolving to allow people to share
               | rich content beyond text: photos, videos, audio and even
               | stickers. We want to ensure the best possible send and
               | receive experience where all these rich forms of content
               | are reliably and consistently available on every
               | platform. XMPP doesn't support all these (and future)
               | content types, and it's difficult to ensure an XMPP
               | client is rendering them appropriately. As such we've
               | decided to sunset the XMPP Chat API.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | > XMPP doesn't support all these (and future) content
               | types, and it's difficult to ensure an XMPP client is
               | rendering them appropriately. As such we've decided to
               | sunset the XMPP Chat API.
               | 
               | This is such a lame excuse, and reveals how much they're
               | control freaks. One of the main points of an open,
               | federated protocol is that people can choose clients that
               | behave the way they want and render things the way they
               | want. "Oooohhh, we can't guarantee with an iron fist that
               | our stupid 'stickers' render correctly on all clients,
               | therefore we can't deal with it!"
               | 
               | This same mentality infests the web, and is why companies
               | insist on slathering JavaScript into everything to force
               | browsers to render their pages exactly as designed,
               | rather than just letting the user agent serve the user's
               | needs.
        
               | AJ007 wrote:
               | One of the highest confidence outcomes I predict from LLM
               | use in software dev is more use of open protocols. It is
               | going to become difficult to maintain a network if you
               | don't use them.
               | 
               | XMPP isn't dead either. Here's an open source project of
               | an XMPP based Slack - https://prose.org/ (I have no
               | association to this, was amazed how much digging it took
               | me looking for Slack/Discord alternatives to find it.)
               | 
               | The most damage to open communications software probably
               | came from the closed mobile app stores. The barrier to
               | maintaining a working app simultaneously on iOS and
               | Android is high. Almost every iOS game I bought 10 years
               | ago is inaccessible and no longer downloadable. Those
               | barriers are in the process of being torn down too, with
               | or without AI's help.
        
           | concerndc1tizen wrote:
           | I feel like that was Discord's style also, being playful,
           | fun, childish. Maybe they're just imitating that appeal?
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | they might have to update their translation to (limited) soon
         | based on how the current admin is blitzkriegeering
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | Since US English retains more historical features of English
         | and has fewer of the newer ones (especially in light of
         | Received Pronunciation, rhoticity, and random u insertion), one
         | could argue that US English is the more traditional one.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-p...
        
           | dietr1ch wrote:
           | You know it's way more traditional because they
           | democratically pushed themselves into an oligarchy ;)
        
             | lenerdenator wrote:
             | Sounds pretty European to me, honestly.
        
           | HeckFeck wrote:
           | I live in a region of the UK where rhoticity is alive and
           | well. It actually means I've an easier time understanding
           | some words when Americans speak them, compared to the
           | English.
           | 
           | On the broader point I'd agree up until I notice that you'd
           | write 'defense' yet also 'fence', and ponder why the verb
           | 'got' is so overused.
        
             | t-3 wrote:
             | I'll just say that I sometimes use defense because the
             | Firefox spellchecker seems to prefer UK spellings even when
             | US English is set in the language settings and the red
             | squiggly lines bother me.
        
           | dijit wrote:
           | Isn't that a myth?
           | 
           | Wonder where that idea even came from, the BBC article even
           | says as such ""It is a delightful and attractive myth that
           | Shakespeare's language got fossilised" in parts of the US,
           | [the dialect anthropologist] says."
           | 
           | I mean; we have old runic languages that match northern
           | English pronunciation really well- along with "olde english"
           | spelling which is clearly a rote writing of _a_ southern
           | English accent (likely from somewhere like Gloucestershire).
           | 
           | An attractive myth, perhaps, but I'm not sure how much truth
           | there really is.
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/bofu3g/how_did_ame.
           | ..
        
             | toolz wrote:
             | > even if Americans do speak more like the Elizabethan
             | English than today's Brits themselves
             | 
             | I get the sense that the article very much believes
             | Americans speak more traditional English.
        
           | bbno4 wrote:
           | The article you linked says it's a myth.
        
         | mpalmer wrote:
         | u wot mate
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | u havin a laff?
        
             | ChocolateGod wrote:
             | ight m8 shank u bruv
        
               | NetOpWibby wrote:
               | you taking the piss innit?
        
         | arzig wrote:
         | Yep, simplified by removing all those silly extraneous 'u's
        
           | t-3 wrote:
           | Other way around. The British wanted to differentiate
           | themselves from colonial hillbillies so they tried to assume
           | the appearance of culture by making the words look more
           | French.
        
       | voidUpdate wrote:
       | > Revolt is the chat app that's truly built with you in mind.
       | 
       | Is this meant to be a unique selling point? All of the features
       | also exist in discord.
       | 
       | Also, "Bots some for extra spice". Might need a text review
        
         | benrutter wrote:
         | I think the implication is that discord is designed for profit,
         | not you.
        
       | colesantiago wrote:
       | Donation page to Revolt before Discord succumbs to platform decay
       | or (enshittification) after being owned by Wall Street soon.
       | 
       | https://wiki.revolt.chat/notes/project/financial-support/
       | 
       | https://ko-fi.com/insertish
        
       | CleanCoder wrote:
       | The offering in its current form
       | (https://i.imgur.com/zcmEOhr.png) does not feel truly communal.
        
         | internetter wrote:
         | Discord scale "communities" have tens-or even hundreds of
         | thousands of members
        
         | concerndc1tizen wrote:
         | What's not communal about it? Should they allow anyone to
         | participate without limits?
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | Can you elaborate?
        
       | _mitterpach wrote:
       | Note that there have been rumours about Discord preparing to go
       | public, I reckon this might be made in preparation for it. I
       | think it is a wise move to offer an alternative.
       | 
       | The design is very similar to Discord, could this possibly even
       | go to a copyright breach or is the bar for that set too high?
        
         | wooger wrote:
         | Lol, the design of discord is identical to about 9000 chat apps
         | no?
        
           | bryanhogan wrote:
           | There really is no other app in this space on the same
           | quality as Discord. Discord was born out of Skype, Teamspeak
           | and similar being so awful to use. Discord took the
           | complaints from these and made a product which was the best
           | version of them all.
        
             | grumple wrote:
             | Discord has always seemed like a Slack clone with better
             | voice chat to me.
        
               | Cthulhu_ wrote:
               | With an emphasis on the gaming space and open
               | communities, whereas Slack focused on corporate and
               | closed communities.
               | 
               | I've been in the Go community for a while and they had to
               | write a bot to get access to it (as Slack works invite
               | only) and iirc had to work with Slack engineers to work
               | with the scale they had. Meanwhile Discord's success is
               | down to it being open, anyone can create a new channel
               | and get instant access to things like voice chat.
               | 
               | Of course, this has its downside, and I'm sure Slack
               | deals with a lot of abuse, ranging from porn to doxxing
               | to it being used as a C&C server.
        
               | grumple wrote:
               | I think it's a good product. The problem with all these
               | chat apps (as companies to invest in) is there's no moat;
               | as soon as a more convenient or better option comes
               | along, people will switch. There's not a big integrated
               | community or advantage to sticking to one app. Which
               | doesn't mean they can't and won't make plenty of money,
               | just that I don't buy into any hype around them.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | They must have been super crappy them because Discord is
             | terrible to see and terrible to use.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | All clans' voice chats that I've been in were via Mumble,
               | hosted on the server of whoever was the Linux nerd of the
               | clan (nowadays that's me). No complaints about that
               | software, but I heard lots about Skype and Teamspeak
               | indeed. Mumble also uses TLS for encryption and
               | authentication so it was more secure than anything else
               | at the time as well, and more secure than Discord because
               | the admin could maybe listen in but that's another team
               | member and not a stranger working for a commercial entity
               | 
               | I hate the Discord UI/UX as well (e.g.: sluggish add
               | hell; need to press a few specific pixels on mobile to
               | show the mute button and other controls that
               | automatically fade out if you don't touch them for 2
               | seconds) but apparently what they do well is filtering
               | out super loud eating noises, or that's what a friend
               | said when I asked them to mute when they were eating
               | crisps with the mic pointed directly at it as well as
               | blowing on the mic with every breath. Apparently they
               | never got complaints doing that on Discord
               | 
               | I feel like an old person when muttering something about
               | mute button etiquette to myself while writing this
               | comment. If machine learning can fix that (if it doesn't
               | require proprietary datasets from storing millions of
               | peoples' conversations), I should let it ^^'
        
             | brulard wrote:
             | Quality? I see it as extremely bloated, very sluggish and
             | clunky (on M3 macbook pro), search sucks bad and I can not
             | figure out how I should keep track of multiple chained
             | replies (like threads in slack). It's not as bad as teams,
             | but talking about quality seems out of place.
        
               | Jarwain wrote:
               | Discord also has threads, if the server has enabled it.
               | 
               | I personally haven't really encountered performance
               | issues running discord
        
             | delfinom wrote:
             | I feel like Discord was born out of Slack. Slack was
             | actually once popular for gaming groups but they decided
             | they didn't want to capture that space and focused on
             | business only. Teamspeak and Ventrilo were the alternatives
             | and while they are still solid and arguably still popular
             | with certain groups, they were a bit behind the times.
        
         | DuncanCoffee wrote:
         | I remember a gitea update where they said in the release text
         | something like "new github-like ui" and they basically copied
         | all of it (check some screenshot of the latest version)
        
           | _mitterpach wrote:
           | I would lie if I said I did not ever do something similar,
           | and I am not really aware of any court cases or litigations
           | based on copying a design. Core functionalities, sure.
           | 
           | There is many an open source software that could actually use
           | a little bit of copying from the thing they are trying to
           | emulate. GIMP is still one of the ugliest programs I have
           | installed on my computer.
        
             | chuckadams wrote:
             | > I am not really aware of any court cases or litigations
             | based on copying a design
             | 
             | Apple tried it in the 90's with the infamous "look and
             | feel" lawsuits against Microsoft. They lost.
             | 
             | They've had more success suing Samsung over phone design
             | and UI (which was about more than "rounded corners" to be
             | sure, but a lot of the patents are still questionable).
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | When I first saw Discord (est. 2015), my first thought was that
         | it looked exactly like Slack (est. 2013) except was in dark
         | mode.
        
           | mportela wrote:
           | And with good audio chat
        
         | internetter wrote:
         | > I reckon this might be made in preparation for it
         | 
         | Revolt has been in development for many years
         | 
         | > could this possibly even go to a copyright breach
         | 
         | Ianl but I'd imagine this would require discord to prove they
         | own the "multiple groups, with subchannels" paradigm, which
         | would be difficult when slack exists
        
           | dingnuts wrote:
           | even then it would be a potential patent infringement, not
           | copyright.
           | 
           | but there's prior art for literally every feature Discord has
           | so as long as they aren't copy-pasting Discord's source code
           | I think they're just fine
           | 
           | I'm not a lawyer either but I am an SWE and I've had to read
           | and been expected to understand so many goddamned licenses
           | that at this point I feel like I'm expected to be one just to
           | be able to navigate this field
        
         | rychco wrote:
         | > Note that there have been rumours about Discord preparing to
         | go public
         | 
         | That's disappointing, but even now it's hard to imagine they're
         | particularly profitable. The core functionality of Discord is
         | entirely free and I doubt that Nitro / other paid features earn
         | that much.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | I would like to know this, too. What makes it profitable,
           | then, considering it has little to no ads?
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | > The design is very similar to Discord
         | 
         | And Discords design is very similar to mIRC.
        
       | vr46 wrote:
       | How is open-source supposed to compete without access to Apple's
       | certificates? If you are constantly forced to override the
       | warnings about unsigned software, assuming your system even
       | allows you in the first place, how much friction before less
       | technical users give up?
       | 
       | Code signing is good, I like it, I approve, but it is a big
       | obstacle for me personally and others who cannot afford Apple
       | Developer Credentials.
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | > How is open-source supposed to compete without access to
         | Apple's certificates?
         | 
         | Does the license of your application somehow prevent you from
         | following whatever Apple wants to do regarding signing? I think
         | there are plenty of apps/games out there built on FOSS
         | technology yet they're still signed and run like anything else
         | signed on macOS, but maybe I remember incorrectly?
        
           | devsda wrote:
           | It might be nothing technical.
           | 
           | Some developers avoid paying for the Apple dev program on
           | principle. Joining it could be seen as supporting Apple's
           | attempt at building walled gardens.
           | 
           | There's also the operational challenges for open source like
           | who will sign-up and how to secure or maintain the signing
           | keys etc. It brings in lot of friction.
        
           | 42lux wrote:
           | It's the 99 bucks argument every time...
        
             | Karliss wrote:
             | The problem is that with exception of single person
             | projects it's not as simple as paying 99$.
             | 
             | Using individual developer account means exposing private
             | information of one of the developers (which not everyone
             | wants) and is a major buss factor.
             | 
             | Doing it properly with organization account means
             | nontrivial amount of paper work to establish either a
             | commercial company or an officially registered non profit.
             | There are very few open source projects big enough for
             | this.
        
         | konart wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure I use many open-source projects that have
         | Apple's certificates.
         | 
         | So the only question is communities desire. There is no
         | technical problem here.
        
           | timeon wrote:
           | > There is no technical problem here.
           | 
           | Just financial and organizational one. Not every open-source
           | project is going to do that.
           | 
           | Not sure why Apple had to change how Gatekeeper works. I will
           | have to look for an alternative once my mbp dies. It gets
           | tiresome to fight with the OS for every other app after every
           | update now. Especially when it worked perfectly OK before.
        
       | RobotToaster wrote:
       | The self hosting instructions aren't that friendly imo.
        
         | p2detar wrote:
         | I couldn't even find them. Do you have a link?
        
           | OuterVale wrote:
           | https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | The backend seems to be a fairly standard Rust project, you
         | basically run `cargo build --release` and then deploy the
         | binary. For the frontend, it seems like a pretty standard
         | frontend project, you install dependencies, then run build
         | command and you have a bunch of website assets you deploy to
         | your server.
         | 
         | Overall, seems pretty standard and easy to deploy. Most
         | complicated would be to also run the various services that are
         | supporting the backend, but again, not overly complicated.
         | 
         | Is there something specific that is missing to be able to self-
         | host this?
        
           | moiz41510 wrote:
           | I think it's pointless to selfhost if you have to recompile
           | an app in order to connect to your server. The team should
           | have a field box to add a server URL.
        
         | IceDane wrote:
         | I'm sorry, but what??
         | 
         | The self-hosting guide even walks you through setting up the
         | VPS on a specific platform. What more do you want? One could
         | even argue that if you need your hand held through setting up a
         | VPS, you probably shouldn't be self-hosting anything, so from
         | that viewpoint, these instructions are a lot more friendly than
         | they had to be.
        
       | dabeeeenster wrote:
       | The homepage has no explanation of where the server is in all
       | this? Github page doesnt help either?! Where is my data stored?
        
         | OuterVale wrote:
         | https://revolt.chat/legal/community-guidelines#jurisdiction
        
         | guy234 wrote:
         | According to another comment itt it is federated.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | I didn't see federation mentioned anywhere, just self
           | hosting. The difference:
           | 
           | - Self hosted means everyone has their own server, people
           | need to register for the server they're interested in using.
           | Websites are an example of this: you host your own system
           | independently of anything else going on (though there are
           | hyperlinks to cross-link content, which aren't necessarily
           | present in other self-hosted software). Git servers are
           | another example, like Gitea or Forgejo or Gitlab or gitweb
           | 
           | - Federated usually lets you connect servers, so that if I'm
           | on HN and want to post a comment on a Reddit thread, if they
           | were federating, I could just do that without logging into
           | reddit specifically (let alone registering a completely
           | separate account for the other server). The best example may
           | be email, where I don't need to register with Google (yet) to
           | send a Google user an email but I specify @gmail.com after
           | the user's name. A more recent popular example is Mastodon
           | 
           | Each has upsides and downsides, like having to moderate
           | content from other servers and having a much more complex
           | protocol (federated) versus being independent and simple but
           | also being another walled garden (self hosted)
           | 
           | Edit: confirmed by
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43278375
           | 
           | > > As of right now, Revolt does not feature any federation
           | and it is not in our feature roadmap
        
       | lordofgibbons wrote:
       | The biggest selling point of Discord is its insane network
       | effects. There are servers for libraries/frameworks, languages,
       | ai/ml, math, whatever you can think of. And a lot of the adjacent
       | ones will cross-link scheduled events and messages from other
       | servers.
       | 
       | I'm really hoping for an alternative. I'm always weary of en-
       | shitification whenever a single platform wins all the users..
       | like what has happened to Reddit.
        
         | yownie wrote:
         | I couldn't agree more
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | I think the biggest selling point is clearly the community.
         | 
         | Without the community revolt.chat is just another Mattermost or
         | Matrix.
         | 
         | Discord is popular for one reason and one reason only, all the
         | young people are there. The secret is how did they get popular
         | with young kids? Well they offered a free service obviously,
         | just like Google, just like Facebook.
         | 
         | I've been trying to explain this to a friend recently. You're
         | only on Discord because they took a huge loss for many years
         | with the hopes of building up a massive database of users.
        
           | internetter wrote:
           | > they took
           | 
           | They are more than likely _still_ taking, based on the 17%
           | layoff a few months ago
           | 
           | As is Snapchat, miraculously (Snapchat is the most wildly
           | mismanaged social media company from a fiscal perspective
           | it's wild)
        
           | Dracophoenix wrote:
           | > The secret is how did they get popular with young kids?
           | Well they offered a free service obviously, just like Google,
           | just like Facebook.
           | 
           | In 2015, when they first got started, they marketed towards
           | gamers (i.e. boys and men in their teens and early 20's).
           | Even though the company's tagline at the time was that it
           | offered a better Skype, Discord was more inclined to be a
           | better replacement for a moribund Xfire and an aging
           | Teamspeak. Word of mouth marketing on Reddit didn't hurt
           | either.
        
             | Zambyte wrote:
             | Skype was also still popular among gamers when Discord was
             | first available. That's what my friends and I switched to
             | Discord from.
             | 
             | These days I refuse to use Discord for political reasons
             | though.
        
               | curtisblaine wrote:
               | What political reasons? I googled for discord political
               | controversies but didn't find anything too shocking.
        
               | Zambyte wrote:
               | I don't like depending on a proprietary commercial
               | product to facilitate my personal relationships. I don't
               | like the fact that they can (and are likely to) ban /
               | block me from talking to my friends for choosing to run a
               | client other than their proprietary web browser wrapper
               | on my computer. I don't like that it's a single point of
               | failure (that often does) for something as easy to host
               | as chat. These reasons probably fall under the "not too
               | shocking" label, but they're important to me.
        
             | mportela wrote:
             | Curse was becoming more popular than TS at the time, but
             | Discord offered a better quality of audio and stable
             | connection. That's why my group of friends migrated to
             | Discord around 2016.
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | TeamSpeak was usually the default option at the time
               | (with some on Mumble). Skype had some presence, but was
               | usually grumbled about beyond 1:1 calls. RaidCall was
               | starting to gain _some_ presence because it was free but
               | otherwise followed TeamSpeak 's UX, but was still pretty
               | niche.
               | 
               | Curse Voice was absolutely nowhere to be seen.
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | They also have ties to Universities with their student
             | hubs. This part is great if you're a student, as you can
             | find clubs and people with similar interests. There is
             | immense power in what an older sibling does, and soon the
             | younger siblings are using it to chat with them. They can
             | chat with their friends from any mobile device or a desktop
             | without the dreaded green bubble or restrictions of SMS /
             | iMessage. In groups, they can hide their identity.
             | 
             | It gives the server "owners" the ability to enforce rules,
             | ban those who are disruptive, and has an impressive bot
             | API. I can see why it is immensely popular.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Yeah, it is the chat program treadmill. Spend investor money
           | to host a completely commoditized program. Of course it is
           | better than the version that costs money by virtue of being
           | free. Eventually run out of investor money and do something
           | unpopular to raise revenue, leaving the opportunity for the
           | next iteration to come in for free and take your spot.
           | 
           | The only thing I don't really understand is why investors
           | keep falling for this? The only real business model is giving
           | their money away. Maybe they get some good ad network profile
           | data in the time between the heel turn and the point where
           | everybody ditches the service.
        
             | hirako2000 wrote:
             | Investors aren't falling for it. Users are falling for it.
             | 
             | Leaking millions for years pays off in the end, or even
             | half way through. Some investors would exit at some stage.
             | Taking profit due to valuation going up, despite no
             | revenue/profit.
             | 
             | At the end of the tunnel is acquisition by a major player
             | who is basically buying the users.
             | 
             | Typical examples: Skype, whatsapp.
             | 
             | But also LinkedIn. GitHub.
             | 
             | Businesses that offered some (basically) free offering for
             | over a decade until reaching critical user base, then sold
             | off for billions. Reason being precious data along with
             | millions of daily active eyeballs.
        
               | windward wrote:
               | Skype is ending this year. Some founders and investors
               | won but only thanks to greater fools.
               | 
               | (notable that three of the four greater fools in your
               | post are Microsoft)
        
               | Y_Y wrote:
               | It's shocking really that Microsoft didn't buy Slack and
               | drive that into the ground too.
               | 
               | I'm glad to see WhatsApp is proceeding relatively slowly
               | down the Shit-en-slide, since it's completely entrenched
               | in some countries. I've had companies who just assume
               | that I have WhatsApp and it's cool to message me on it
               | instead of sending a text or email.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | I thought the main value of discord was quick and solid voice /
         | game stream integration.
         | 
         | I rarely feel any connection between servers, but that might
         | just be me.
        
           | dan_can_code wrote:
           | For the average user, absolutely it's voice and game
           | streaming. But I've found the more I've used discord, is that
           | a lot of online communities, that typically would exist on
           | Reddit or a forum, also have discord servers for
           | communicating and community management.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | oh yeah through a reddit bounce that is true, it's their
             | live chat platform in a way :)
        
             | nativeit wrote:
             | I have noticed it's frequently the only outlet for
             | communication with developers and communities, which I find
             | worryingly closed off and hostile to users.
        
               | 9283409232 wrote:
               | Users are worryingly hostile to developers.
        
               | thoughtpalette wrote:
               | If you've been on a game dev discord, it's usually the
               | opposite.
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | Not in my experience, either on Discord or any other
               | platform where devs interact with users. Most users are
               | polite enough, but many are toxic as hell; whereas most
               | devs are maybe, at best, brusque - but you would be too
               | if you had to constantly point users to the FAQ or answer
               | the same obvious questions that Google can answer in 5
               | seconds.
        
               | kevinsync wrote:
               | I don't spend much time on Discord servers (mostly just
               | use it for DM with specific people) but certainly spent a
               | lot of time on IRC in the 90s / early 00s; are channel
               | bots not a thing? Especially now with LLM APIs and all
               | that, you'd imagine a lot of the FAQ-level questioning
               | would have automated answers in busy project-based
               | servers
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | Bots are still a thing, certainly, but much like in IRC,
               | they're still usually triggered by devs (of course some
               | users will use them, but then, those aren't the users who
               | need to be pointed to the FAQ)
               | 
               | There's also stuff like server intro guides and
               | onboarding steps that _should_ deal with most of the low-
               | hanging questions... Should, but don 't always :P
               | 
               | As for use of LLMs... probably an interesting use-case,
               | but I'm not aware of any solutions using that quite yet.
        
               | ZeWaka wrote:
               | Yeah, people never read channel topics so we're forced to
               | use commands & embeds for common things
        
               | squigz wrote:
               | Okay but I don't blame users for that particular failing
               | - topics are not easily discoverable. They should be
               | shown above the input bar the first time a user visits a
               | channel or until they dismiss it or something.
        
               | Arelius wrote:
               | I'm sorry, I didn't understand, are you claiming that
               | gamers (perhaps one of the most notoriously toxic
               | communities) are not hostile towards game developers?
        
               | thoughtpalette wrote:
               | Ahhh context was missing. I meant in actual game
               | development discords for game developers, not games that
               | have discords from the developers.
               | 
               | My anecdotal data is based on observations from my
               | partner who has boughten several asset packs from
               | itch.io, got on the discord for support, and the
               | artists/game devs have been extremely unwelcoming to the
               | point of just banning users for simple game dev questions
               | and/or mentions of AI.
               | 
               | Of course, gamers (competitive) are generally a toxic
               | bunch.
        
               | 9283409232 wrote:
               | > extremely unwelcoming to the point of just banning
               | users for simple game dev questions and/or mentions of
               | AI.
               | 
               | This is understandable when you realize that artist are
               | being accused of using AI for every single imperfection
               | in art now. You messed up on perspective? You must be
               | using AI. Anatomy is slightly off? You must be using AI.
               | At a certain point they just get tired of the accusations
               | and choose to ban people.
        
               | thoughtpalette wrote:
               | I can believe that scenario, but I believe in the cases
               | I've seen regarding game dev, It's more pearl clutching
               | from the artists (rightly so) rather than accusations
               | from the asset users.
        
           | hnuser123456 wrote:
           | Completely depends on the niche. The VRChat party scene is
           | comprised of hundreds of clubs as well as a meta-club for
           | people who like to join as many as possible, which imports
           | events channels from dozens of other servers. Some of them
           | even collaborate on scheduling data and can put together a
           | complete calendar/schedule of all events from various clubs
           | each day.
        
           | Pikamander2 wrote:
           | It was a little bit of everything, really. Discord exploded
           | in popularity because:
           | 
           | 1. Its free functionality was more generous than many
           | comparable services. Nobody wants to pay for a Mumble server.
           | 
           | 2. Its UI and audio quality and noise cancellation settings
           | put much of the competition to shame.
           | 
           | 3. Only needing one account for every Discord server in
           | existance gave it the same kind of appeal that let
           | Reddit/Facebook kill off most individual forums.
           | 
           | 4. Good marketing, which gave it the critical mass of users
           | and hobby groups that it needed to succeed initially and now
           | make it harder to move away from.
        
             | killerteddybear wrote:
             | Speaking from being very early on the train for Discord, it
             | also had an extremely solid userbase right from the start
             | because much of the early pre-marketing pull into it was
             | for raid groups in the then-new Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm
             | Reborn. People really needed a chat client to coordinate a
             | big number of players and it was totally free, functional,
             | and new on the scene. It spread a ton in the community and
             | the people working on it were players as well from what I
             | remember, though it's been a long time. So as the game grew
             | in popularity, and everyone who was in a large group was
             | starting to use Discord more, it cemented friend groups
             | that formed in the increasingly popular game along with the
             | Heavensward release and helped solidify a foundation in the
             | gaming community imo.
        
               | metalliqaz wrote:
               | Teamspeak and others were so well entrenched at the time.
               | Wouldn't players of WoW, CS, etc. have brought those
               | tools to FFXIV? What made that special?
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | Discord's killer feature for my money has always been
               | that ever user in a call gets a slider bar (and mute
               | button) to control the volume they hear ever other
               | individual user in the call
               | 
               | Zoom, in 2025, _still_ makes you wait for the host to
               | figure out which of the 30 other people has a dog
               | incessantly barking or is causing the echo or has
               | horrible feedback, and then try to talk them through
               | fixing it before finally muting them.
        
               | ZeWaka wrote:
               | We had that in Teamspeak/mumble/vent, but the chat
               | functionality on those platforms were definitely an
               | afterthought. Not a place you'd cultivate a community.
        
               | viccis wrote:
               | Its killer feature was how frictionless it was to adopt
               | initially. If I sent you a Discord link, back then you
               | could just click it and be going in under a minute.
               | 
               | Same reason Zoom quickly took over video chat. It was so
               | easy to use that you didn't have to convince your friends
               | to sign up for it, you just sent them a link and it just
               | worked.
        
               | elictronic wrote:
               | Every action had more friction and the ability to post
               | images was game changing.
        
               | killerteddybear wrote:
               | Teamspeak had a ton of friction. When I was playing FFXIV
               | and made my discord account, someone literally just sent
               | a link in the text chat of our Free Company, I opened it
               | in browser, made an account and used it right there
               | immediately. To timestamp this, it was the summer of
               | 2015, a little under a decade ago, iirc.
               | 
               | Not sure about now, but back then Teamspeak meant
               | installing an application, setting it all up, having
               | someone in the Free Company (almost always more than the
               | limit for a free server on TS at the time) pay for a
               | server or self-host (even more friction). With Discord
               | there was no debate or decisions, just one step: Click
               | link, sign up.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | If you can handle a ton of users on not much hardware it's
             | quite easy to offer a generous free tier. The more "high
             | touch" (resources per interaction) your SaaS is the more VC
             | money you're setting on fire trying to achieve a network
             | effect.
             | 
             | And during a downturn the high touch services lose
             | customers faster because part of the virtue signaling of
             | cost cutting is choosing cheaper options that take a bit
             | more work.
        
         | alwayslikethis wrote:
         | > The biggest selling point of Discord is its insane network
         | effects
         | 
         | True. As it also hits a local minimum in terms of user
         | experience (to the point that the average user does not care),
         | I don't think it is possible to make a new centralized (even
         | self-hosted) alternative on technical merits alone, since you
         | necessarily incur a cost in the form of signing up to every
         | server.
         | 
         | The only hope is a decentralized alternative like Matrix which
         | is enshittification-resistant. I actually think the server part
         | of matrix is more or less ready for a good Discord-like client,
         | but the client side is lacking.
        
           | ksp-atlas wrote:
           | Cinny exists as a discord-like client, thing is, Matrix is
           | mostly the text chat part, it doesn't implement voice chats
           | or anything. Also, the space/room system works differently to
           | discord server/channel
        
             | foresto wrote:
             | > Matrix is mostly the text chat part, it doesn't implement
             | voice chats or anything.
             | 
             | It's in progress. Keywords: MatrixRTC, Element Call
             | 
             | https://matrix.org/blog/2024/10/29/matrix-2.0-is-
             | here/#3-nat...
        
               | Arathorn wrote:
               | fwiw, Matrix has had video rooms since 2022:
               | https://element.io/blog/drop-in-drop-out-chats-with-
               | video-ro... - and VoIP calling since day one in 2014.
        
               | TulliusCicero wrote:
               | Does it have persistent voice _channels_ with simple app
               | /game streaming for free?
        
             | alwayslikethis wrote:
             | I've never used it but Matrix does seem to support
             | conference calls, if not natively then via Jitsi. I'm sure
             | a good app can paper over the differences to get a voice-
             | chanel out of it if this is what people are after, though
             | I've never really used this much on Discord.
             | 
             | The same can be said of space-room vs server-channel. Of
             | course a space has different semantics, the space doesn't
             | own the rooms, etc. But they can be made to be nearly the
             | same for an end user. In general organization of resources
             | is much looser and less opinionated on Matrix. But an
             | opinionated app can also paper over this to force a
             | stricter hierarchy, while offering advanced users the
             | ability to make their own spaces, etc.
        
               | TulliusCicero wrote:
               | If it only works per-client, then it almost doesn't
               | exist. That's one of Discord's strengths.
        
         | bsenftner wrote:
         | I hate discord, it is where enthusiasm is met with "bad girls"
         | energy. Plus, it's an information black hole.
        
           | Mashimo wrote:
           | > it is where enthusiasm is met with "bad girls" energy.
           | 
           | What does that mean?
        
             | bsenftner wrote:
             | Group mentality that picks and chooses who is "cool" and
             | then bullies everyone else.
        
               | bo0tzz wrote:
               | Sounds to me like you're hanging out with the wrong
               | people.
        
               | Mashimo wrote:
               | But I assume that is because of the people on that
               | specific server, not because of the software? Or is there
               | something about discord that enables it, that IRC etc.
               | does not have?
               | 
               | I hang out with friends that predate discord, on discord
               | and can't see it. Same with new servers.
        
               | dingnuts wrote:
               | happens on irc constantly too
               | 
               | chat rooms are cliques, almost always
               | 
               | choose any sufficiently populated room on libera chat,
               | join, and start talking a lot without lurking first for
               | awhile and see how the inhabitants react
        
               | ghostpepper wrote:
               | try going to a pub on a Saturday night, walking up to a
               | group of people you've never met, having a conversation,
               | and start talking about something completely unrelated,
               | and see how they react.
               | 
               | what you're seeing in online chat communities is just
               | basic social interaction reflected online
        
               | smittywerben wrote:
               | I've never been in a Discord server and thought "Wow this
               | server doesn't do the moderator LARP-ing thing".
        
               | sph wrote:
               | My dream is to be invited into a mildly popular server
               | (more than 15 users), than doesn't have 50 channels, 8
               | separate roles and T&C to agree to. It hasn't happened
               | yet.
               | 
               | An entire generation of bureaucrats and bean counters is
               | learning the ropes on Discord.
        
               | networked wrote:
               | This shows Discord is a genuine successor to Web 1.0
               | forums. :-)
               | 
               | Unnecessary channels are unnecessary subforums. User
               | roles are user ranks (https://www.phpbb.com/support/docs/
               | en/3.1/kb/article/everyth...), indicating both software
               | permissions and social status. T&C--well, forum engines
               | like phpBB, MyBB, and SMF come with a standard user
               | agreement they show before registration. There is more
               | concern with it now because the Internet is real life.
               | 
               | As for training an entire generation of bureaucrats and
               | bean-counters, I leave it to the reader to judge.
        
               | pestaa wrote:
               | I like this take. There was something unique how each
               | bulletin board was customized to the administrator's
               | taste.
               | 
               | And it was up to them to provide plenty onboarding to new
               | users, so they're not overwhelmed by the hundreds of
               | subcategories, and thousands of threads in each.
               | 
               | We used to be part of no more than a handful of forum
               | communities. Maybe that changed.
        
               | doctorhandshake wrote:
               | I started and mod a server of about 6k users for a
               | community around a niche software used by professionals,
               | students, and hobbyists. We keep it really simple and
               | focused primarily on people getting questions answered.
               | Recently a small but vocal cadre of hobbyists have been
               | demanding more Discord-y features oriented towards
               | socializing with other users of the software, and our
               | reticence to complicate the server and add features just
               | because Discord offers them has been a point of
               | contention. They seem to think we mods don't understand
               | Discord. We are having trouble getting them to understand
               | that we are aware of what other servers are like and that
               | we're deliberately choosing not go that route.
        
               | smittywerben wrote:
               | Are you a partnered server? Are they even still doing
               | those?
               | 
               | I've never been a mod. I'm just an adult who understands
               | Discord's general operations.
        
               | doctorhandshake wrote:
               | No just a community server.
        
               | ZeWaka wrote:
               | What features are you talking about? I admin a server of
               | 9k. The new onboarding stuff, automod, opt-in roles?
        
               | Nuzzerino wrote:
               | I'll assume it was pronoun roles unless we hear back
        
               | doctorhandshake wrote:
               | Not sure why you would assume that.
               | 
               | GP was on track - they wanted voice channels, many of
               | them, before we had any demonstrated demand for it at
               | all.
               | 
               | They wanted additional, opt-in roles, so anyone could @ a
               | cadre of self-appointed 'question answerers' if they, I
               | guess, (and this still isn't clear to me), felt as though
               | their question was more important than the questions of
               | those who didn't elect to do so.
               | 
               | They wanted auto-mod stuff that would maybe somehow
               | automatically answer people's questions ('AI'), etc
               | 
               | The software in question (TouchDesigner) is a complex,
               | idiosyncratic, node-based programming environment with a
               | tough learning curve and a GUI dependency that makes
               | question-asking and -answering more onerous than non-
               | graphical programming.
               | 
               | As mods we've put a ton of effort into helping the
               | torrent of new arrivals ask better (often less lazy or
               | broad) questions and thus get better answers, more often.
               | Many of the requests we get are well-intentioned but seem
               | to think the reason questions go unanswered is because no
               | one saw them, when it's obvious to us that in many cases,
               | they're just extremely lazy questions.
               | 
               | Unreal has a similar problem, in my experience, with the
               | difficulty of asking a question with sufficient
               | information making it common that those willing to help
               | are still only inclined to go the distance with people
               | who are willing to meet them halfway.
        
               | Nuzzerino wrote:
               | Can you elaborate on what features they were demanding?
        
               | smittywerben wrote:
               | I'd consider beancounter to be best case. At least a
               | beancounter works for the company and gets paid. It's
               | like they know they're Koolaid drinkers but every server
               | is riced up with Discord's product pipeline like an
               | aftermarket Honda.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | I'll bite. What's the moderator LARP-ing thing?
               | 
               | I've tried looking it up but among irrelevant results
               | (general LARP info) I just found this comment again as
               | the third result...
        
               | smittywerben wrote:
               | Discord is shifting focus back to gaming [1]. What was it
               | before? A moderation simulator, of course. That's what I
               | mean by LARP.
               | 
               | You wouldn't stick a kid in the pilot seat of a real
               | Boeing 747, would you?
               | 
               | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/29/24167147/discord-
               | gaming-f... (2024)
               | 
               | EDIT- Second hint: To summon Galrog the Destroyer, say
               | "Live. Action. Role. Playing." and clap your hands 5
               | times.
               | 
               | But fear not what is ahead; the entire moderation team's
               | activity status has shown "Playing Roblox" for 8 hours.
               | Luckily, it's just a simulation, and none of this is
               | real.
        
               | fazeirony wrote:
               | i'm on a number of discord servers. yes, some have that
               | 'mean girls' vibe but considering the content, i expect
               | that. the more tech oriented ones i'm on...that's not an
               | issue at all.
               | 
               | to me, _in general_ the vibe of a given discord is
               | similar to the general vibe of that topic (i.e some games
               | have terrible, vitriolic cesspools for communities and
               | those discords reflect that. other things, such as one of
               | the rust ones i 'm on, reflects that community's vibe
               | which is a lot more wholesome imo).
        
             | Melonai wrote:
             | I think they might've meant "mean girls" energy... :)
        
           | bastardoperator wrote:
           | I started a channel with some friends last year for game
           | servers we started running. It's been so much fun. We were
           | worried about what you're describing, but we've had the exact
           | opposite experience. People are friendly, they go out of
           | their ways to help others especially new joins or people
           | asking questions, and they try to protect the channel from
           | the few people who break the rules.
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | > The biggest selling point of Discord is its insane network
         | effects.
         | 
         | Ease of use is also up there. (Compared to IRC)
        
           | timeon wrote:
           | Yes but compared to things like Zulip it loads pretty slow.
        
           | 1oooqooq wrote:
           | that's like selling email with gpg as easy to use compared
           | with newgroup.
           | 
           | anything win when compared to the ultimate underdog. but
           | that's hardly a valid comparisons.
           | 
           | discord only win from other opensource forums because you
           | don't have to own a domain, i guess.
        
             | surajrmal wrote:
             | Like reddit or Facebook groups? Discord being realtime chat
             | is an important part as well. I don't think it was
             | necessarily competing with traditional forums that are post
             | and thread based.
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | I mostly use Discord for real time chat. And around that
             | time Discord got big it was IRC that filled that roll. Or
             | skype for some.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | The combo of ease of use and rich feature set makes services
           | like Discord hard to resist for users and hard to compete
           | with for FOSS software/services which prefer to take more
           | focused, more technologically-inclined approaches.
           | 
           | It's a major factor in what made Reddit big, too. Spinning up
           | a subreddit is effortless and takes practically no knowledge
           | and similarly easy for users.
           | 
           | IRC doesn't seem terribly complicated to me, but I came of
           | age when using computers seriously required a higher level of
           | knowledge. I don't find it restrictive either, but when I
           | started communicating with others online, being able to send
           | "just" plain text was amazing. Things have changed since
           | then... the communication styles popular with young people
           | haven't been strictly text in many years and the overarching
           | expectation is to be able to start using services in seconds
           | after discovering them with as few clicks and as little
           | research as possible.
        
         | smittywerben wrote:
         | The selling point to me was it's sophistication in handling
         | moderation issues. But they enshittified it to be like Facebook
         | moderation. Maybe that's why they're going public.
        
         | JeremyNT wrote:
         | I mean from what I can tell a lot of its recent success is
         | simply because Slack is terrible. Most of the discord "servers"
         | I use which aren't actually gaming related would be almost the
         | same on slack, but slack has a less generous free tier.
         | 
         | I don't think discord has much of a real network effect, it's
         | just a good value proposition. When the screws tighten that may
         | change.
        
         | qwery wrote:
         | Am I the only person who sees this as a negative? I don't want
         | everything I do to be in the same place.
         | 
         | This isn't a stance driven primarily by privacy/security
         | requirements, although making e.g. compartmentalisation
         | possible is generally a positive thing. Rather, my issue is
         | with mixing business and pleasure, or even business A with
         | business B, so to speak.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | It's common for users to have multiple accounts and use the
           | built-in account switcher.
        
             | starkparker wrote:
             | While useful, I don't think that addresses much of anything
             | in this context.
        
         | elif wrote:
         | The biggest flaw of Discord is the federated nature and how
         | disconnected each discord is from any others. As a casual game
         | enjoyer, I found myself somehow juggling over 50 discords in ca
         | 2021, each with their own server rules and conventions for how
         | to use @all tags, alerting thresholds, etc.
         | 
         | It's too much burden on the user to manage the incoming
         | information and resulted in a kind of anxiety about reading red
         | marked messages and frustration at realizing how I didn't care
         | for 95% of them, but I was unwilling to completely separate
         | myself from that community (e.g. quitting or muting the
         | discord)
         | 
         | It becomes a question of which friends you want to implicitly
         | abandon and I ultimately decided to just abandon them all.
         | 
         | If the competitor even has a slightly more unified product it
         | could easily displace discord.
         | 
         | Transferring a bot from one chat format to another chat format
         | isn't some kind of insurmountable moat, and I think it's likely
         | this project could make a few changes to support them with no
         | modification required.
        
           | dmonitor wrote:
           | discord needs to abandon the notion that every message in
           | every channel deserves to be read by every user. it's absurd
           | in servers with >50 users
        
             | jacobgkau wrote:
             | I don't think that's an inherent notion of Discord at all,
             | although it is a case of poor defaults. I turn on most of
             | the muting settings immediately when I join a new server
             | (notify for: nothing, suppress @everyone and all role
             | @mentions, etc). Throughout the day, I'll mainly click
             | between the 2-3 servers I actually care about, and every
             | few days I'll go through some of the others. New messages
             | are still marked once I click in so I know where I left
             | off, pings are still highlighted so they catch my eye as
             | I'm scrolling through, but if I don't care about a
             | conversation in a channel, I can just scroll to the bottom
             | and it's all immediately marked as "read."
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | It's annoying UX, but unfortunately I've come to the
             | conclusion that the alternative is worse. When channels are
             | opt-in, it makes discoverability effectively infeasible in
             | practice. This is what the Element clients that I've seen
             | do (following the IRC convention), and it just means that
             | everyone clusters in the default channel and the others all
             | wither on the vine.
             | 
             | That said, maybe there's a middle ground. If a server could
             | mark, say up to 20 channels as default/opt-out, and the
             | rest as backrooms/opt-in, that might suffice for 80% of
             | servers while avoiding the long-tail worst-case UX of
             | manually muting 100 channels in a server because there's
             | only one you care about.
        
               | ZeWaka wrote:
               | Note: Discord has given servers the ability to make
               | channels opt-in/opt-out - 'Browse Channels' in the
               | channel sidebar.
        
           | elif wrote:
           | There's also the shady components of discord. All manner of
           | illegal activity thrives behind custom access control.
           | 
           | The most notable instance in media is the leaking of
           | classified materials, the creation of swatting/ddos
           | communities which gave us the 'BigBalls' hacker employed by
           | doge,
           | 
           | But more sickeneningly recently it allowed this doctor to
           | successfully target countless children, including convincing
           | a 13 year old girl to hang herself in a live discord call.
           | [0]
           | 
           | There is a problem with too much protection of freedom and
           | secrecy.
           | 
           | [0] https://youtu.be/GgfGhzkq8FE?si=nFahQlTUTsY5WEuI
        
             | elif wrote:
             | I guess my point is, do we as a society want our children's
             | Roblox communities to share a platform with virtually every
             | cyber criminal, behind security and secrecy measures
             | completely at the will of arbitrary discord owners?
        
             | api wrote:
             | Telegram is the undisputed king of shady shit, at least
             | insofar as centralized services go.
        
               | elif wrote:
               | Yea but how many children's games use telegram to manage
               | their community?
        
             | stackskipton wrote:
             | I don't think Discord has anymore shady activities than any
             | other large scale social media platform. When I helped
             | moderate a very large server, we had access to Discord
             | Trust and Safety team and they were trying against what is
             | a massive flood. Automated moderation is extremely
             | difficult even with all AI tools unless you 100% block any
             | NSFW content and sexual messaging and even then, you will
             | get false positives.
             | 
             | I do find it interesting that we hold these platforms
             | liable but not the phone/pager/mail service. If this doctor
             | had called this girl on her cell phone, no one would be mad
             | at Verizon.
             | 
             | Part of the problem is most parents have no clue about
             | social media/communication tools outside what they use. At
             | my church, I gave presentation about Discord and it was
             | shocking to see how clueless parents were.
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | Disboard is the biggest Discord search engine.
               | 
               | It is trivial to find servers with adult topics (BDSM)
               | targeted at minors. It is trivial to find servers that
               | combine those topics with problematic age ranges (like
               | BDSM-themed servers with no ID verification, 'ages 14-28
               | welcome'). It is trivial to find servers with minors
               | openly selling "content".
               | 
               | Disboard isn't Discord but these things aren't even being
               | remotely "hidden", it is these servers' sole 'purpose'.
        
             | aryan14 wrote:
             | This isn't fair to say.
             | 
             | Any platform that's popular will have its share of
             | undesirable users, out of the company's control.
             | 
             | Discord has very good moderation in contrast to other
             | platforms (Constant banwaves on illegal/shady servers,
             | terminating accounts frequently, etc)
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | "Weary" or "wary"? Or both?
        
         | mikewarot wrote:
         | The deceptive nature of Discord's "servers" has always made me
         | wary. You're trusting one service with everything, it's Reddit
         | all over again.
        
           | TulliusCicero wrote:
           | The nature of Discord "servers" is exactly why they won.
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | I noticed that, but I also noticed the quality in those
         | "servers" (really groups) is kind of shit? There's way more
         | random off-topic discussion than about the thing you're looking
         | for, and you still have to search through it. And when there
         | isn't, there's nothing (due to fragmentation) and you stop
         | checking.
        
       | mid-kid wrote:
       | Is this still centralized? Or can you self-host without needing a
       | separate client instance for each host?
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted
         | 
         | As for clients I don't know.
        
           | cdaringe wrote:
           | The compose file specified a service for the web app
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | 8 GB RAM minimum for a non-graphical server software?! This
           | thing must have more components and services than my desktop
           | OS while having a few website open in Firefox and Chromium
           | each
        
             | verdverm wrote:
             | 9 services, 5 theirs, 4 other OSS
        
         | q0uaur wrote:
         | edit- shit, it was rocket.chat, i'm so sorry.
         | 
         | Ignore the below, it is for a different "FOSS" discord
         | replacement.
         | 
         |  _i did self-host it for a week to test it out - and honestly i
         | was put off immediately.
         | 
         | What happens when you set it up according to the docs, is that
         | it automatically "registers" for a license - the free license
         | being limited to 5 users, even if you self host. Ridiculous,
         | and just right out the gate shows me that whoever makes this
         | does not have the user's best interest in mind.
         | 
         | the UI is also full of stuff that requires an expensive
         | license, and i did not see an easy way to remove that stuff
         | when self hosting._
        
           | internetter wrote:
           | What are you talking about. Revolt is a donation funded FOSS
           | project
        
             | elaus wrote:
             | A benevolent assumption would be that GP tries out a lot of
             | stuff (according to their other comments) and therefore
             | mixed something up, unwittingly spreading FUD about Revolt
        
             | q0uaur wrote:
             | sorry, i mixed it up with rocket.chat, another "foss"
             | discord replacement.
        
           | like_any_other wrote:
           | License? Isn't revolt open-source, so you could have as many
           | users as your server can handle?
           | https://github.com/revoltchat/backend uses the AGPL, I assume
           | whatever other things a revolt server requires have similar
           | licenses.
        
             | q0uaur wrote:
             | sorry, i mixed it up with rocket.chat, another "foss"
             | discord replacement.
        
           | Mashimo wrote:
           | I read the FAQ, searched google and the documentation and
           | could not find a single ting about any license.
        
             | q0uaur wrote:
             | sorry, i mixed it up with rocket.chat, another "foss"
             | discord replacement.
        
           | hexagonwin wrote:
           | maybe you're talking about mattermost?
        
             | q0uaur wrote:
             | sorry, i mixed it up with rocket.chat, another "foss"
             | discord replacement.
        
       | jaggs wrote:
       | Really nice. Perfectly timed for enshitification, and love that
       | it's open source. Now just need some sort of federation and it's
       | good to go. And choosing to go with an established UI will make
       | adoption that much easier when TSHTF.
       | 
       | [just had a longer look around. Is this a Russian project?]
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | [edit] seems like it's federated
        
         | hoistbypetard wrote:
         | Their FAQ makes it seem like it's not:
         | 
         | https://developers.revolt.chat/faq.html
        
       | TZubiri wrote:
       | Reminder that discord is an app for kids. Is your open source
       | code and volunteer run project going to keep kids safe? Is it an
       | advantage that the comms protocols are open and everyone can
       | build bots? Or a disadvantage for this usecase?
       | 
       | Also, how is it an alternative for Discord if it's in a whole
       | different jurisdiction?
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | > Reminder that discord is an app for kids.
         | 
         | Why is that?
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Have you seen the UI? Nothing fit for adults, who value their
           | attention and time.
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | Sorry, I don't see it. I can quickly jump around channels
             | and server with shortcuts, the UI looks similar to other
             | chat apps. Auto-Embed can be disabled, if that steals your
             | attention. Or what do you mean?
        
               | TulliusCicero wrote:
               | They just don't like the design and are choosing a
               | condescending way of framing it.
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | Because it's a video game accesory.
           | 
           | They market to kids, and have kid safety features.
        
         | Lanolderen wrote:
         | Not sure about that one. There's a ton of minor
         | edating/esex/grooming going on. You have massive community
         | servers that essentially work like gaiaonline back in the day
         | and tons of servers of 18+ communities. Horny, curious kids
         | will always find a way so I can't blame Discord for not having
         | a magic wand but I would be monitoring its usage if I were a
         | parent. Only 1 of the servers I'm in is what I'd consider kid
         | safe and it's a company's community server.
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | Yeah I get that it would have problems. But I'm saying that
           | being a closed source product with staff is what allows it to
           | fight against that.
           | 
           | Foss on the other hand just clones an app offers a download
           | and calls it a day, "self host", sometimes they encrypt stuff
           | so that not even devs or admins can see the content, they
           | would think of this as respecting privacy, but then when they
           | get a subpoena for a sex offender case, they can't turn up
           | anything.
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | This is an outdated perspective. A lot of open source projects
         | are picking Discord now that Slack has become hostile to small
         | projects. The vast majority of the Discord groups I am in have
         | nothing to do with gaming
        
       | bryanhogan wrote:
       | Love to see this! Worried about Discord's future, with its
       | monopole position greater enshittification is definitely a real
       | risk.
       | 
       | Would also love to see some solution to Discord's problem of
       | being an information black hole here as well.
        
       | dmos62 wrote:
       | I've recently heard it said that there's a better alternative to
       | Discord called Gilded, but no reasons were provided. Anyone has
       | insights?
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | How does it compare to Element ?
        
       | threesevenths wrote:
       | A British company making a chat app. What's the privacy policy? 5
       | eyes first then you?
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | You know it includes a backdoor for the government.
        
         | crtasm wrote:
         | It's open source and you can self host it.
        
       | concerndc1tizen wrote:
       | What do people find upsetting about Discord? It's free, there's
       | no ads, it's reliable, it has many established communities, it's
       | cross-platform and even works in the browser, supports voice chat
       | and screen sharing.
       | 
       | What more could you ask for? Or, are you asking for too much?
       | 
       | What I mean is: What innovative functionality is missing to such
       | a degree, that if it was introduces, would make people abandon
       | Discord?
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | "Discord in Early Talks With Bankers for Potential I.P.O."
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/05/technology/discord-ipo.ht...
         | 
         | Enshittification is inevitable, indeed mandatory.
        
           | PaulKeeble wrote:
           | They have been trying to get to IPO for a while. 2 years ago
           | they deleted a huge swathe of accounts to cause those people
           | to create new ones to boost their growth stats and frankly
           | having been caught up in it that was the push I needed to get
           | off Discord. It caused a huge discontentment at the time as
           | it wasn't clear if it was a bug or intentional but Discord
           | didn't fix it.
           | 
           | They will do anything to get to a successful IPO including
           | cooking the stats but they aren't there yet.
        
         | suddenlybananas wrote:
         | Not open source.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | It's very, very badly performing. And yet every time I want to
         | start it, it requires another 15 updates.
        
           | steezeburger wrote:
           | I agree about the updates, but I'm in a shit ton of servers
           | and performance is fine for me. Can you talk to the issues
           | you've had a bit?
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Sounds like your average web development project though;
           | frequent releases are a good thing, although I suppose for
           | each individual they'll want to slow it down a bit.
           | 
           | I just wish there were more native applications instead of
           | all the web desktop stuff. But, visual design options and
           | developer availability is a huge factor there. Native iOS
           | designs come the closest to what I'd like to see on the
           | desktop.
        
           | optionalsquid wrote:
           | The web client is fairly well behaved and does away with the
           | need for constantly installing updates:
           | https://discord.com/app
        
           | windward wrote:
           | An example of the worst-of-both-worlds 'always needs updates'
           | like a website but 'takes over your screen (while strobing
           | your taskbar) so you can't multitask' like a desktop program.
        
         | harryf wrote:
         | That's exactly the question - how does a free communication app
         | achieve a multi-billion dollar valuation despite not having ads
         | or directly selling user data?
         | 
         | Discord's business model relies on attracting a massive user
         | base to secure substantial investments and potentially a
         | lucrative acquisition. We've seen again and again and again
         | what happens once acquisition takes place.
         | 
         | Also a big existing investor in Discord is Tecent which, under
         | Chinese law, could grant the government access to Discord's
         | extensive user data.
         | 
         | So yeah.. it's not about features it's about freedom.
        
           | Lanolderen wrote:
           | Data on Discord has never been safe really. I don't know how
           | it is nowadays since my memes have gotten less edgy/dank but
           | you could get banned for private messages for a long time.
        
           | concerndc1tizen wrote:
           | And there's no way to delete your chat history basically. You
           | can delete your account, but that doesn't destroy your
           | messages.
           | 
           | And as for privacy: Your username is anonymous, but your
           | email isn't (to Discord), so the % of users that didn't
           | create a separate fake email, or _ever_ connected with a
           | trackable IP, basically aren 't anonymous at all. They also
           | record your voice. Every user's voice is recorded in
           | isolation and can be used as training data for identification
           | algorithms. Including unusual characteristics like
           | breathiness, diction, accent, and so on. Probably it can
           | estimate your age as well.
        
         | short_sells_poo wrote:
         | Let me preface this by saying I use Discord daily to keep in
         | touch with friends. It's a great digital campfire where you can
         | relax with people, talk with them over voice and video or just
         | post random stuff.
         | 
         | The issue is that Discord has replaced things which it
         | shouldn't have, the internet forums. Discord is the epitome of
         | a golden cage. It is a prison for information, a black hole.
         | 
         | I'm not even talking about the absolutely atrocious search
         | functionality, but the fact that information inside the Discord
         | walls is impossible to find from the outside. You can't search
         | across discord communities, none of the content there is
         | indexed by web search engines. Entire communities have FAQs and
         | knowledge as pins inside threads inside Discord servers. Things
         | which used to be on the web.
         | 
         | 15 years ago, these discussions would've taken place on forums
         | and on IRC to a lesser extent. IRC itself was a really bad
         | information black hole, but at least the forums were great.
         | They supported long running discussions and were easy to
         | search.
         | 
         | Now everything disappeared into effectively hidden Discord
         | chats and youtube videos where you need to watch 8 different
         | idiots bramble on for 10 minutes before you find the 30 second
         | segment of information that you were actually looking for and
         | could've been a single paragraph.
        
           | Brybry wrote:
           | Even IRC was better for data archiving and searching. We
           | usually had local logs we could grep and web-
           | indexed/searchable logs from bots.
           | 
           | It's really insane how much information is on Discord that is
           | both impossible to discover and will silently disappear at
           | some point.
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | > We usually had local logs we could grep and web-
             | indexed/searchable logs from bots.
             | 
             | But only IF you are good at regex.
             | 
             | On discord you can easily filter by date or date range, if
             | it has media, if it contains an URL or what user/roll got
             | mentioned.
        
               | Brybry wrote:
               | Only if it's in the discord search index, which sometimes
               | doesn't include all history, and it does some fuzzy
               | elasticsearch query that works ok for most cases and
               | awful for anything that isn't most cases.
               | 
               | The metadata filters are nice but they're also what keep
               | it usable at all.
        
               | short_sells_poo wrote:
               | Discord search still sucks a lot because by nature
               | discussions are largely unstructured. It's not really
               | suitable for discussing specific topics - only perhaps
               | types of topics. Discord threads could ostensibly fulfil
               | the forum topic role, but their implementations is so
               | utterly incompetent that it is genuinely puzzling. You
               | can't search specific Discord threads, they often
               | disappear from the left hand nav bar even if you
               | subscribed to the thread. Whoever implemented the Threads
               | in Discord should be kept away from computer systems
               | because they are a danger to any application.
               | 
               | But even if Discord search was good, it still doesn't
               | matter because it is not only a walled garden, it is a
               | hermetically sealed chamber from which no information can
               | escape.
        
               | opan wrote:
               | I still use IRC, irssi in particular. My go-to for
               | searching local logs is `less` rather than grep. I have
               | the date on every line in the log file. I can jump to a
               | specific date easily, then search a different term
               | up/down from that spot, and I see context of surrounding
               | lines easily. No regex needed.
        
               | windward wrote:
               | Discord search thinks it knows better than you and won't
               | let you search verbatim.
        
               | tredre3 wrote:
               | Discord search won't even surface partial word matches or
               | typos or matches in URLs (eg you share a facebook.com
               | link then later on you search for "facebook", it won't
               | show you that post).
               | 
               | Maybe there are some secret incantations I don't know
               | about, but Discord search is positively useless most of
               | the time and I have to manually scroll up until I find
               | what I want (or give up).
        
         | drpossum wrote:
         | > there's no ads
         | 
         | This is a patently ignorant and ridiculous statement. They
         | absolutely shove their own store garbage _every release_ and
         | upsell Nitro at every opportunity. Here 's an article from last
         | year about them explicitly introducing third party ads.
         | 
         | https://techbriefly.com/2024/04/01/discord-introduces-ads-to...
        
           | didntcheck wrote:
           | A freemium service advertizing it's premium offering hardly
           | seems surprizing or objectional. They're not a charity
        
             | drpossum wrote:
             | Is this apropos anything? I was pushing back on the claim
             | that there were no ads, though your username suggests the
             | reason.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | "It has no ads" and "it's not surprising that it has ads"
             | are basically opposites.
        
           | concerndc1tizen wrote:
           | I would define ads as promoting other businesses' products,
           | as you would see on YouTube etc.
           | 
           | Upselling is basically just unlocking additional features. If
           | you object to that, then you're objecting to the freemium
           | model, not to "ads".
        
             | KomoD wrote:
             | > I would define ads as promoting other businesses'
             | products, as you would see on YouTube etc.
             | 
             | They do that, they call them "quests". Companies pay them
             | to promote their product/service and users get rewards for
             | doing a task (like playing a game, watching a video, etc.)
             | https://discord.com/ads/quests
             | 
             | The article that parent linked even says it.
        
               | concerndc1tizen wrote:
               | Wow,
               | 
               | * please drink verification can
        
         | nickitolas wrote:
         | > What do people find upsetting about Discord?
         | 
         | These are the most common complaints I see from people
         | 
         | - They don't allow third party clients and some people have
         | various complaints about theirs (e.g resource usage)
         | 
         | - Some people think discord is _too_ popular, to the point some
         | things that  "don't belong there" have moved to discord. This
         | is usually about being search indexable and requiring an
         | account.
         | 
         | - Fear of monopolostic behaviour ( "enshittification" )
         | 
         | - Some people are mad that they killed public urls for files
         | uploaded to discord. Mostly this is people running into links
         | to images online and being unable to see them, usually not the
         | uploaders
         | 
         | - Discord is centralized and you cannot host your own server
         | 
         | - The only client they allow you to use (See above) is
         | propietary, and some people would rather run something open
         | source
         | 
         | As for me personally, their search functionality drives me
         | insane. I feel like the exact same query gets completely
         | different results depending on the time of day and phase of the
         | moon, making it super unreliable.
        
         | oxcabe wrote:
         | > What do people find upsetting about Discord? It's free,
         | there's no ads, it's reliable, it has many established
         | communities, it's cross-platform and even works in the browser,
         | supports voice chat and screen sharing.
         | 
         | It's an information black hole, as someone else mentioned in
         | this comment section. Otherwise, it's a nifty communication
         | tool.
         | 
         | I personally come from running and using
         | {TeamSpeak,Ventrilo,Mumble} servers. Started using Discord in
         | winter 2015, it was just trivial to open a browser tab and join
         | a group session with your friends. The audio experience was an
         | order of magnitude worse when compared to other solutions, but
         | the overall UX and ease of use made up for it.
         | 
         | > What I mean is: What innovative functionality is missing to
         | such a degree, that if it was introduces, would make people
         | abandon Discord?
         | 
         | If you'd allow me to, I'm going to address this question from a
         | different perspective, as this post is about Revolt: What could
         | Revolt do that would make me, at least, start using it
         | alongside Discord?
         | 
         | I'd love it if I could self-host a server, place it online and
         | let people find it and join seamlessly, similar to how
         | Fediverse works for other social networks. They don't seem to
         | be interested in adding this:
         | https://developers.revolt.chat/faq.html#admonition-does-revo...
         | 
         | Other than that, I'd see myself using it to run a workspace.
         | Having used Discord as a work-related communication platform in
         | the past, I've come to find voice-based channels very useful,
         | these seem to transmit a better feeling of productivity
         | somehow. Other tools (e.g Slack, Teams) make me feel kind of
         | "alone" when working. Even if it's just for body doubling, I'd
         | argue voice channels are underrated and actually quite helpful
         | for remote workers.
        
         | Ukv wrote:
         | Many platforms have followed the trend of first offering a
         | legitimately good product to build up a userbase, then
         | squeezing out profit with increasingly anti-user changes,
         | exploiting the fact it's difficult to switch (network effect
         | and intentional lock-in).
         | 
         | It's not impossible that Discord stays more or less as it
         | currently is, with a few features locked behind its paid
         | subscription but generally a good experience, but it seems
         | prudent to have a backup option for if/when things go further
         | downhill.
        
         | crawsome wrote:
         | Closed-source, dumb stuff hidden behind premum,and premium ads
         | and popups almost every time you launch.
        
         | finnjohnsen2 wrote:
         | Discord is American. For many in Europe this is a downside now.
        
           | wigster wrote:
           | indeed... Made in Europe, motherland of GDPR.
        
         | throwaway9386 wrote:
         | They use your messages for AI training, even if you disable the
         | AI summaries "feature". I kept seeing events related to AI
         | summaries on a custom client, even with them turned off in the
         | only server I was in.
         | 
         | They'll hold your account hostage until you give them a phone
         | number if you happen to trigger their "anti-spam" detection.
         | And sending a message with a number below 13 might be all it
         | takes for Discord to withhold your account for age verification
         | as well.
         | 
         | They basically track every click, every action you take on
         | their client. You can see that if you request a data package.
         | 
         | Abuse is rampant. There's no way to report servers, channels,
         | or individual users. Things that were all possible in the past,
         | through the Support form, until they made in-app reporting the
         | only option, which relies on reporting individual messages and
         | has a very low rate limit.
         | 
         | > What more could you ask for? Or, are you asking for too much?
         | 
         | Let's see...blocking that actually prevents you from seeing
         | messages from the person you blocked. A native client. Better
         | reporting tools. Better message deletion tools - you still
         | can't delete every message along with your account. The ability
         | to opt out of having messages fed into AI. None of these are
         | unfeasible.
         | 
         | > What I mean is: What innovative functionality is missing to
         | such a degree, that if it was introduces, would make people
         | abandon Discord?
         | 
         | The network effect is the reason why technologically inferior
         | solutions like Discord are still thriving.
        
         | ziml77 wrote:
         | There are ads in discord now. They just call them Quests and
         | the notifications for them can't be turned off.
        
         | t-3 wrote:
         | They want my phone number and email address just to look at a
         | forum I don't plan to participate in yet which information I
         | would like to access is siloed in.
        
       | landsman wrote:
       | Importat is funding for these projects. Plenty of them start as
       | open source with donations which can led to frustration and
       | burnout of developers.
        
         | freehorse wrote:
         | Or prosper fine and then end up being sold anyway to some
         | crappy corp for a few million $$$ leaving users stranded there,
         | we need better models for both ends of the risks.
        
       | aragilar wrote:
       | It's unclear if voice/video are supported or not?
        
         | bovermyer wrote:
         | Yeah, this is the part I care about.
         | 
         | I'm not a big Discord user, but the one thing I do use it for
         | is voice chat and game streaming with friends.
        
         | entropicdrifter wrote:
         | Voice is _kinda_ supported, in the sense that they implemented
         | the feature years ago and then proceeded to decide to do a huge
         | rewrite that they 've also decided blocks any sort of
         | improvement or iteration on their voice chat features. Last I
         | checked we're like 3 years into said big rewrite with 0
         | improvements to voice chat.
        
       | Palmik wrote:
       | Why don't you allow OAuth / social login via Google, GitHub and
       | yes, even Discord? Seems like it would make adoption much easier.
        
         | erlend_sh wrote:
         | We started a contribution towards that end:
         | https://github.com/authifier/authifier/pull/63
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | This is as centralized as Discord right? No running your own
       | server, should you choose to.
        
         | hoistbypetard wrote:
         | They publish instructions for self-hosting a server:
         | 
         | https://github.com/revoltchat/self-hosted
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Oh nice. It wasn't clear at all from the front page that
           | there is a server available for self hosting.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | I cannot find anything on the website about Revolt's end to end
       | encryption story.
       | 
       | This doesn't give me much confidence.
        
       | juped wrote:
       | I like a good ejabberd fork!
       | 
       | edit: oh, this isn't an ejabberd fork. Why didn't they just fork
       | ejabberd like normal people? Seriously, _rust_?
        
       | seanvelasco wrote:
       | i wish they picked a more unique name. to me, it just seems like
       | they're a copycat by picking a name that's a synonym - or at
       | least of the same nature - of the word "Discord"
       | 
       | same with the streaming platforms Twitch and Kick
       | 
       | looking at their UI, it's the exact same UI as Discord. no
       | improvements while also inheriting the same flaws that make using
       | Discord neurotic
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | Revolut OTOH is a bank https://www.revolut.com/
        
       | hampus wrote:
       | Seeing as this is closely related to [1], which I also commented
       | on, and in the hopes that someone finds this useful regarding
       | Discord's ownership of your data (where your messages remain even
       | if you delete your account):
       | 
       | If you'd like to delete your Discord messages en masse, I made an
       | open-source tool for that [2]. It leverages a fairly undocumented
       | process using your Discord data package, providing a UI to
       | explore it and choose what to export. The tool gives you step-by-
       | step instructions and a CSV file that Discord expects when you
       | contact their privacy team. It works across all channels in both
       | servers and DMs, even those you no longer have access to.
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43276504
       | 
       | [2]: https://discorch.org
        
       | das_keyboard wrote:
       | Looking at https://rvlt.gg/discover/servers it seems that all
       | reasonably active servers are either turkish[0] or anime related.
       | 
       | [0]: Turkey banned Discord in 2024:
       | https://www.reuters.com/technology/turkey-blocks-instant-mes...
        
         | josteink wrote:
         | So like Mastadon then.
         | 
         | Every time I've looked into it, every server I've checked has
         | been filled with furries and anime-avatars.
         | 
         | I mean, I'm glad they've found a community where they feel at
         | home, but it kinda makes it a hard pass for the rest of us ;)
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | I'm on fosstodon.org. Never noticed anything like that, but I
           | also can't say I spent much time checkout out the avatars.
        
       | cedws wrote:
       | Is it built on Matrix?
       | 
       | I used Riot (now Element) back in the day, but like others have
       | said in this thread, without a network effect these things don't
       | really take off. I haven't heard of anyone using Element for
       | years now.
        
         | throwaway9386 wrote:
         | Not being built on Matrix is a plus, at this point, given the
         | historically poor moderation of that platform.
        
         | opan wrote:
         | I have over a dozen people I regularly talk to on Matrix,
         | though I prefer to not use browser/electron apps, so I only use
         | Element on my phone (separate codebase from other Element), and
         | Nheko on my PC. FluffyChat on Android also seems decent and
         | recently added multi-account support.
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Putting your data in a centralized instance may eventually just
       | lead to enshittification and/or data loss.
       | 
       | Why not use a federated group discussion such as Lemmy?
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmy_(social_network)
        
       | LuciOfStars wrote:
       | I would move to Revolt in a heartbeat, if it had a PluralKit
       | equivalent. Currently the only thing keeping me trapped on
       | Discord.
        
       | 9283409232 wrote:
       | Discord alternatives have a hard time because of network effects.
       | Does revolt has a bridge to Discord?
        
       | openscript wrote:
       | I've accidentally typed https://revolut.chat/ instead
       | https://revolt.chat/. Apparently I wasn't the first one...
        
         | JFingleton wrote:
         | Revolut (the banking service) and Revolt are both British I
         | believe...
         | 
         | Seeing as Revolut has been around for a number of years, as a
         | British person I wouldn't have chosen a name so close to
         | Revolut (for any product).
        
       | no_oneimportant wrote:
       | hmmm
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | It's been in development for five years.
       | https://github.com/revoltchat/backend/tags?after=0.2.6
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | Are they using exiting protocols and networks? Or is it
         | entirely bespoke protocols?
        
         | ryebrd wrote:
         | The last release was 3 weeks ago
         | (https://github.com/revoltchat/backend/releases), and it looks
         | like they changed their tag formats to YYYYMMDD-X.
         | https://github.com/revoltchat/backend/tags?before=0.2.6
        
       | Bengalilol wrote:
       | 3'000+ lines of code <- this seems pretty low
        
       | jonathantf2 wrote:
       | Interestingly (and sadly) the largest deployment of this was
       | probably on Andrew Tate's grift course website thing, see the
       | dev's blog: https://insrt.uk/post/andrew-tate-stealing-software-
       | revolt
        
         | jimmydoe wrote:
         | The largest Mastodon deployment is truth social.
         | 
         | https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2021/10/trumps-new-social-medi...
        
       | adiadd wrote:
       | It's tough to compete in a market like social networks, you need
       | mass adoption for high value. Although this looks cool, I'm
       | interested to see how it differs specifically to provide more
       | value than Discord already does (ton of people, various servers,
       | great integrations, etc.)
        
         | NewJazz wrote:
         | Similarly I'd wonder how this compares to e.g. XMPP or matrix
         | for messaging. Those are the big names in open source and have
         | been for some time now.
        
         | asddubs wrote:
         | I think it doesn't necessarily have to be dominant to be
         | considered a success. It's good for people to have the option
         | to choose a free alternative if they want to, where they can be
         | in control of their own data rather than it being centralized
         | and at the mercy of some company, much like with software
         | forges. Of course mass adoption would be cool but I don't think
         | it's necessary to justify these types of projects
        
       | nestoras_design wrote:
       | Friendly UI. Looking good!
        
       | CivBase wrote:
       | I use Discord for three things: text chat, voice chat, and screen
       | sharing. Looks like screen sharing isn't supported yet, but it's
       | on the roadmap at least[1].
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://github.com/orgs/revoltchat/projects/6/views/4?pane=i...
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Why even build an app? This app should've been a website. Better
       | pester browser developers to implement "Add to desktop" feature.
        
         | ddejohn wrote:
         | Hard disagree. I'm sick and tired of web apps. Please give me
         | more desktop applications not based on electron.
        
       | joshdavham wrote:
       | Just a bit of critical feedback: the landing page isn't
       | responsive to a horizontally rotated iPad. Otherwise, awesome
       | project!
        
       | stevetron wrote:
       | Discord seems to be going the way of Skype: deprecating their
       | support for Windows 7, in favor of a newer OS offering from
       | Microsoft which harvests data in the background under the feeble
       | guise of telemetry. Granted there is telelmetry in Windows 7, but
       | you can disable it in Windows 7 and not worry obout it being
       | over-ridden the next day, or even the same day, with some forced
       | update.
        
         | doubled112 wrote:
         | I'm not sure what to take from this.
         | 
         | Are you worried there is some sort of anti-Windows 7
         | conspiracy, where software vendors stop supporting a 15 year
         | old years out of support OS so that an unrelated software
         | vendor receives more data?
         | 
         | Or is it simply more likely that nobody wants to test their
         | software on a 15 year old OS? When XP came out that would have
         | been Windows 95, and the same thing happened.
        
         | squigz wrote:
         | Windows 7 is a 15 year old OS that's been out of support for 5
         | years. It is utterly ridiculous to paint Discord as
         | unreasonable for not supporting it?
        
         | Shared404 wrote:
         | If you're worried about Windows 10's/11's telemetry, you should
         | read Discord's TOS.
        
       | sitkack wrote:
       | Every time I see one of these projects, I wince because 2/3 of
       | the time the backend is in PHP (no offense). The backend is in a
       | typesafe, memory safe language!
       | 
       | https://github.com/revoltchat/backend
        
       | nop_slide wrote:
       | I don't see anything about funding/pricing, how is this going to
       | stick around for the long term?
        
       | didip wrote:
       | I am surprised that it is written in Rust. Bi-directional long
       | live connections don't require Rust's raw horsepower. Maybe it's
       | needed for audio/video streaming?
       | 
       | Is the API discord compatible? That's basically necessary for
       | adoption.
        
         | vivzkestrel wrote:
         | what do you think it should be written in? golang?
        
           | didip wrote:
           | Golang would have encouraged a lot more contributions, e.g.
           | https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost (I am not affiliated
           | with them).
        
             | ZeWaka wrote:
             | I don't think that correlation of number of commits implies
             | causation.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | I would pick Rust for 9/10 of problems today.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | _> Bi-directional long live connections don 't require Rust's
         | raw horsepower._
         | 
         | If you're an app dev who's really and truly serious about
         | lowering the barrier to self-hosted services, then you need to
         | consider what the install and deployment step looks like. For
         | languages like Rust that default to producing a single static
         | binary, that's as easy as it gets.
         | 
         | Likewise, you need to consider that users might want to self-
         | host on a potato, which is where Rust's efficiency shines even
         | for small services.
         | 
         | These are both things that Mastodon got horribly wrong, for
         | example, by choosing to use Ruby.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Discords performance is unmatched. I hope that's one of their
       | goals as well
        
       | elif wrote:
       | There's a massive shady component of discord inherent to how
       | access and security are at the whim of ar arbitrary discord mods.
       | All manner of illegal activity thrives behind custom access
       | control.
       | 
       | The most notable instance in media is the leaking of classified
       | materials, the creation of swatting/ddos communities which gave
       | us the 'BigBalls' hacker employed by doge,
       | 
       | But more sickeningly, recently it allowed this doctor to
       | successfully target countless children, including convincing a 13
       | year old girl to hang herself in a live discord call. [0]
       | 
       | There is a problem with too much protection of freedom and
       | secrecy.
       | 
       | [0] https://youtu.be/GgfGhzkq8FE?si=nFahQlTUTsY5WEuI
       | 
       | I guess my point is, do we as a society want our children's
       | Roblox communities to share a platform with virtually every cyber
       | criminal, behind security and secrecy measures completely at the
       | will of arbitrary discord owners?
       | 
       | EDIT: moved this to a global comment as it was too tangential to
       | where I originally replied
        
       | jonstaab wrote:
       | I'm also building a FOSS Discord alternative, but this one's
       | based on nostr: https://flotilla.social
        
         | ravenbitcoin wrote:
         | Flotilla.social and Chachi.chat are both amazing, yet early,
         | Nostr alternatives.
        
       | Legion wrote:
       | Pushing what used to occur on web forums into Discord chats has
       | been a net loss for the Internet.
        
         | zamalek wrote:
         | Don't forget IRC. My previous employer [very reasonably]
         | blocked Discord with their MITM. This meant that the numerous
         | developer/package discords were inaccessible to me.
         | 
         | Gitter exists, and they use Element. As well as many other open
         | source alternatives (including IRC, but I can understand the
         | apprehension with nicserv and all that ceremony).
        
         | happyweasel wrote:
         | Absolutely. Information can no longer be retrieved via internet
         | search. Discord and Slack are effectively silos.
        
           | dbg31415 wrote:
           | A lot of sites now block non-Google search engines from
           | accessing their data.
           | 
           | Honestly, I find it easier to check a Discord server than to
           | get useful results from DuckDuckGo these days.
           | 
           | Google has done whatever it takes to incentivize people not
           | to use competitors. It sucks.
        
           | nijave wrote:
           | Sure but you can search for communities then use the
           | platform-native search. Not as convenient as a search engine
           | natively supporting, though.
        
             | meta-meta wrote:
             | until the discord server goes down
        
             | tcfhgj wrote:
             | you have to have an account, with mobile number
        
           | culi wrote:
           | Same thing can be said about Twitter and most of Facebook
        
             | UberFly wrote:
             | For now at least. Some day everyone's relatives will be
             | digging through databases of their ancestor's grand wisdom
             | filleted wide open. Maybe it'll even use all that info to
             | recreate an Ai version of them. Sorry just thinking out
             | loud.
        
         | notepad0x90 wrote:
         | The real loss for the internet is the puritan approach to
         | federation and decentralization. It's either that or app-
         | centric solutions like matrix. Even forums weren't discoverable
         | easily. I'll say this, matrix really has the right idea, it
         | just does too much too fast. An SRV DNS record indicating your
         | matrix server should be enough, then browsers should auto-
         | discover the 'matrix' for the website, and via matrix you can
         | comment on a site, leave reviews, chat with visitors, post
         | forum-style,etc..
         | 
         | But as I mentioned in another comment, what's more important is
         | how easy it is to administer and setup. The experience for
         | site/community owners is the critical factor for adaption.
        
           | ghostpepper wrote:
           | Forum posts were indexed by search engines - doesn't that
           | alone provide a minimum level of discoverability?
        
             | notepad0x90 wrote:
             | Based on how search engines behave to day, not really.
             | These days, you'll have to fight spammy forums who game
             | SEO, reddit, stackoverflow, ML digested output,etc.. it is
             | discoverable as in technically it is somewhere in the
             | results, but people never see it. If google paid discord
             | like they pay reddit and searched discord servers that
             | allow for that, that might be a nice compromise.
        
               | jmb99 wrote:
               | Add forum or "forum" to your search term and you'll get
               | results from tons of forums. Yes, you have to know to do
               | that, but once you do, your results will actually be
               | good.
        
         | BobaFloutist wrote:
         | "Push" is the right word, because moderating web forums was
         | _always_ a labor of love, and automated trolling /spamming has
         | only gotten easier and more prevalent, not to mention anti-mod
         | culture.
         | 
         | It's just too hard to moderate a space with so little friction,
         | and any friction you add chases away all but the most dedicated
         | users -- and the most dedicated users are often the ones more
         | likely to get entangled in some insane drama and try to burn
         | the whole place to the ground.
         | 
         | It's a difficult problem. I've always wondered what it would
         | actually cost to actually, properly moderate a reasonably sized
         | forum if you paid a professional mod team real wages and gave
         | them proper tools. Probably way more than we would guess.
        
           | mystified5016 wrote:
           | No. A readme on GitHub that only says "documentation on
           | discord" is an active push by the developers to contain
           | everything within discord.
        
             | chowells wrote:
             | Way to miss the point entirely. GP was talking about _why_
             | that happens. And yes, it 's almost entirely due to going
             | places that actually provide effective tools to deal with
             | bad-faith participants.
        
         | rikroots wrote:
         | I started a Discord 'server' for my JS Canvas library thing a
         | couple of years ago because - apparently - it was a "good way
         | to build a community". Not only have I failed to build a
         | community, I've grown to hate its UI and confusion of channels.
         | 
         | I think Discord is overkill for my requirements. But I still
         | want a (free) venue (which is not GitHub) where people can ask
         | questions and - maybe, just maybe - form a community around the
         | library. I keep staring at PhpBB ... but it feels too oldskool,
         | so: nope.
         | 
         | I am beginning to like the idea of a self-hosted Discourse[1]
         | thing; there seems to be a fair number of active tech-related
         | communities... maybe if I have some time over Easter I'll
         | investigate further.
         | 
         | [1] https://discover.discourse.org/
        
           | skydhash wrote:
           | IMO, you should have different channels of communication: A
           | wiki which has commonly requested information; A manual for
           | references; A bug tracker for issues. I strongly believe that
           | IM should be reserved for active contributors. Forums should
           | mainly be user to user help and support.
        
         | jdwithit wrote:
         | Agree 100%. Not the most important example, but I used to be
         | heavily into World of Warcraft. The go-to place for discussion
         | of high end play was a forum run by the guild "Elitist Jerks".
         | Everything was there out in the open, to be read and indexed
         | and discussed and preserved indefinitely. The forum eventually
         | went away, but the info was still available thanks to the
         | Wayback Machine.
         | 
         | Fast forward to 2020 when Blizzard put out WoW Classic
         | (basically the original 2004 state of the game again, as a
         | nostalgia trip). I was bummed to find that all discussion of
         | the game had moved into discord servers. And not just one.
         | There was a separate discord for every single class (mage,
         | warrior, priest, etc). Sometimes more than one if the community
         | couldn't agree on which was best. Every guild had their own
         | discord. Special purpose servers existed for niche topics. If
         | you wanted to find a piece of information, you had to hope that
         | a helpful moderator had pinned it somewhere, or else rely on a
         | crappy search feature. If a server is shut down or you get
         | banned, all of that info is lost forever. It's a nightmare.
         | 
         | Discord is a perfectly good tool for real time chat. It is a
         | TERRIBLE tool for summarizing and preserving knowledge. But
         | unfortunately it's increasingly being used for that purpose and
         | I do not for the life of me understand why.
        
           | trinsic2 wrote:
           | Yeah a lot of things are going this route unfortunately. RIP
           | to the open internet. Ill still be there when everyone
           | decides they have had enough.
        
       | korse wrote:
       | The problem with Discord is that it doesn't allow for servers in
       | the same way a protocol like IRC does. Some commenters have
       | alluded to this.
       | 
       | From a quick glance, revolt.chat doesn't allow for server
       | creation either. Am I mistaken or is this pretty much a joke
       | (Discord replacement with the only real benefit being a 'trust us
       | bro, we're European' sort of promise to not do bad things)?
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | What you classify as a problem is exactly why Discord was a
         | smashing success.
        
           | korse wrote:
           | Financial success, undoubtedly. Successful at distancing
           | users from the systems that underpin their interactions,
           | certainly. As far as granting users more agency over their
           | digital existence, it has been an abject failure, a state
           | consistently exacerbated by the number of tech communities
           | that could easily exist on IRC or a custom platform.
           | 
           | It really hurts when a con is so solid that even the
           | 'enlightened' are ensnared.
        
             | TulliusCicero wrote:
             | A success in terms of popularity, in terms of creating
             | something that regular users enjoy and find value in using.
             | 
             | > It really hurts when a con is so solid that even the
             | 'enlightened' are ensnared.
             | 
             | It's exactly this sort of sneering attitude that so often
             | causes FOSS projects to fail to catch on in the mainstream.
             | 
             | The framing isn't "people like this feature set", it's
             | "people got conned". For a certain type of user, they must
             | see others' preferences as beneath them, as lesser.
        
               | korse wrote:
               | I'm not an elitist and I don't have problems with
               | 'regular users'. What I do have a problem with is all the
               | technical users who know better and turn everything over
               | to Discord corp anyway. How many 'hacker spaces' do you
               | know that use Discord as a primary communications
               | channel?
               | 
               | They could just as well run a primary communications
               | channel on something sensible, durable and self-hosted
               | that ties in to discord intake for newcomers. Come in to
               | the discord, say hi, chat a bit and then graduate to
               | where the real content is.
               | 
               | Discord should have been a on-ramp for technical
               | communities, not the foundation.
        
       | notepad0x90 wrote:
       | I think I'm using every chat platform that has wide adaption in
       | tech circles. The one trend I'm seeing is that most of us just
       | use the platform random communities insist on us using, we don't
       | use them out of preference. And those communities choose the
       | platforms because of the support they're getting from companies
       | like discord and the amount of work needed to moderate and
       | administer the community under the platform. My point being:
       | community admins are the real consumers of these products, not
       | normal users.
       | 
       | If I need support with an open source library of some sort, I
       | don't mind using IRC , MS Teams or anything in between. But if I
       | have to run a community, I will chose whatever platform requires
       | the least effort while integrating well into all my
       | administrative and devops workflows.
       | 
       | If I could speculate a bit, I think discord webhooks and bot api
       | has helped it succeed a lot. But things can be improved upon.
       | Making it dead-easy to integrate into github actions,
       | alert/monitoring platforms,etc.. is a huge selling point. It
       | should be easier to use a platform like this to send
       | notifications than with email. And it should have at minimum one
       | "bridge" type integration that is natively supported: for email!
       | It's really mind-blowing to me with M365, how I have to switch
       | between teams and outlook. How come they haven't figured out how
       | to get and respond to emails from within teams? (the reverse is
       | possible but doesn't work well).
        
         | juliangmp wrote:
         | >If I need support with an open source library of some sort, I
         | don't mind using IRC , MS Teams or anything in between.
         | 
         | I honestly cannot think of something worse. Chat applications
         | are not forums and they generally suck at replacing them. Not
         | only does this make topics harder to follow and much harder to
         | find to begin with, it also makes the maintainers bother with
         | the same questions again and again, because users can't find
         | their results in search engines.
        
           | notepad0x90 wrote:
           | it sure beats mailing lists. look at LKML. I prefer discord
           | over LKML any day. But some people prefer them over anything
           | else. That's kind of my point, I don't have the time or
           | energy to complain about this, I just want to talk to the
           | right people. No one asked my preference, so in practical
           | terms, it doesn't even matter.
        
           | culi wrote:
           | discord's search functionality has actually been incredibly
           | useful. Many forums are notorious for having awful search.
           | This is somewhat made up for by the fact that they're
           | indexable and you can google search that forum instead.
           | 
           | There's also a wide spectrum between chat sites and forums.
           | Threads-centric tools like Zulip can be amazing for a
           | community like that. Some, like rocket.chat, are even search-
           | indexable
           | 
           | EDIT: it was actually Zulip not rocket.chat that has the
           | option to make channels public to the web
        
             | 1shooner wrote:
             | >Many forums are notorious for having awful search. This is
             | somewhat made up for by the fact that they're indexable and
             | you can google search that forum instead.
             | 
             | I think this really depends on the content. Projects that
             | use discord as their primary community support create a
             | significant barrier for users doing preliminary
             | troubleshooting. I have a huge folder of discord servers of
             | projects I took a couple steps into before passing on.
             | Those should have just been internet searches. Once I have
             | an agent doing that research for me, I assume it will have
             | to register with discord servers just to do its job.
        
             | jmb99 wrote:
             | > Many forums are notorious for having awful search
             | 
             | But google/bing/etc index (basically) all of them. Forum
             | search is great for finding exact title matches, and
             | sometimes useful for exact content matches. Google with
             | site: is better for finding conceptual matches. And, if you
             | don't know what forum you're looking for, adding "forum" to
             | your search engine term searches all of them.
             | 
             | Discord is not (and likely will never be) indexed by any
             | search engine. The level of discoverability is almost as
             | low as it can possibly be; you can't find the community by
             | searching general terms, you have to know the community
             | exists, _join it_ (agreeing to both discord's and the
             | community's rules), and then search, only with discord's
             | search itself.
        
           | trinsic2 wrote:
           | Technically, I think you can make a chat application's chats
           | archivable and searchable, but nobody is going to do that.
           | Discord actually does a better job than I expected, but the
           | text is stuck in the app. It would be great if somehow the
           | chats could be archived in text based format online, but then
           | you would need to write a security model to handle the
           | privacy aspect.
        
             | keyserj wrote:
             | I've landed at AnswerOverflow from Google before. It's a
             | bot you can add to your server so that your server's
             | threads get indexed. I haven't added it to a server myself
             | but it seems decent enough. See
             | https://github.com/AnswerOverflow/AnswerOverflow
        
       | gibibit wrote:
       | Doesn't anyone else miss the old days of forums like PHPBB and
       | VBulletin for collaboration?
       | 
       | They had everything I needed, and nothing I didn't. Easily
       | searched by Google. Actual pagination instead of stupid endless
       | scrolling.
       | 
       | All the new forums are going to Discord (synchronous) or
       | Discourse (asynchronous) which I find to be much less useful.
        
         | doublerabbit wrote:
         | I do terribly. However you needed SysAdmin skills to
         | administrate a *nix box.
         | 
         | System skills to run the forum and webserver configuration.
         | 
         | And money to pay for the webhost/vps/cloud minus any malicious
         | actions such as DDoS or bandwidth stealing.
         | 
         | All three are sparse now and not forgetting the laws of the
         | country. UK has become a pain to host anything community
         | oriented.
        
       | rmm wrote:
       | Still waiting for a new web replacement for phpbb
        
       | Bluescreenbuddy wrote:
       | Truly built with us in mind....Until they get so big someone with
       | a fat check approaches them and then we just have another
       | Discord.
        
       | galaxyLogic wrote:
       | Lots of comments on Discord here, but is anybody saying this new
       | service "Revolt" is better than Discord?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-03-06 23:00 UTC)