[HN Gopher] Reintroductions of beavers into the wild in several ...
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Reintroductions of beavers into the wild in several parts of
England
Author : thinkingemote
Score : 98 points
Date : 2025-03-03 13:39 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wildlifetrusts.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wildlifetrusts.org)
| patrick451 wrote:
| >Natural England has developed a detailed licencing regime and
| application process to make sure that stakeholders are engaged
| and landowners are supported.
|
| What a bunch of dissimulating bullshit. If they actually wanted
| to support landowners, they wouldn't be re-introducing this
| destructive species.
| hmmokidk wrote:
| Man someone has gotta say it. Thank you. This is not acceptable
| and does not solve the root problem. If anything it creates so
| many more. Stupid government. They have to get rid of the
| destructive species once and for all. Let the Beavers have the
| human houses, whatever it takes, just get the humans away from
| earth before they make the place uninhabitable for all.
| foobarian wrote:
| > does not solve the root problem
|
| It kind of does! :-)
|
| There is a stream behind our yard and one year beavers built
| a dam. They were hard to spot in the daytime but we caught
| them at night with trailcams. They are very cute but
| surprisingly big and round. Of course they caused a ton of
| damage to trees around the trail, though whether that's good
| or bad depends on whether you were attached to those trees or
| not. We enjoyed the process of watching the nature unfold.
| sophacles wrote:
| Read it again - they aren't ranting about beavers.
| hmmokidk wrote:
| If you're arguing for untouched by wildlife perfect trails
| just go to Disneyland.
|
| If we are in agreement then please accept my humble high
| five.
| II2II wrote:
| > Of course they caused a ton of damage to trees around the
| trail, though whether that's good or bad depends on whether
| you were attached to those trees or not.
|
| I've encountered relatively few people who were concerned
| about the damage to trees. The typical concern is over
| damage to land. Any animal than engineers their
| environment, including both beavers and humans, has a
| disproportionate ability to alter land use. That includes
| humancentric development and natural ecosystems.
|
| I am not going to claim that beavers are either good or
| bad. I am going to point out that humans are as much a part
| of nature as beavers, so preserving natural ecosystems is
| almost always in our favour. Yet there are circumstances
| where managing is likely a better approach than preserving,
| simply because nature can throw nasty things our way too.
| (We are, for example, not to eager to let rats thrive in
| our cities.)
| mystified5016 wrote:
| Oi! You got a loicense for that beaver?!
| bozhark wrote:
| Works in the Netherlands
| https://business.gov.nl/regulation/sex-business-permit/
| Angostura wrote:
| There are farmers who are more than happy to work alongside
| them:
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/28/ultimate...
| barbazoo wrote:
| And if you're a farmer that's working against nature not with
| it then you're part of the problem.
| onychomys wrote:
| For anybody interested in how beavers change landscapes, I can't
| recommend Ben Goldfarb's "Eager" highly enough. It made me a
| believer.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| I appreciate the rec! _The extended phenotype_ (Dawkins) also
| highlights this phenomenon.
| selykg wrote:
| This was a my favorite book last year. Friend and I went on a
| hike across Isle Royale and while we skipped the area that is
| inhabited by beavers they had the book at the gift shop and it
| sounded pretty interesting.
|
| REALLY good book and made me think very differently about
| beavers. Highly recommend it!
|
| Edit: The section of the book dedicated to European beavers is
| much smaller than the American counterpart, in case that
| matters. I do think the coverage was good on both sides though.
| krunck wrote:
| Isle Royale is amazing. Just filter your water... because
| beavers.
| selykg wrote:
| Yea, maybe at some point I'll get back out there and hike
| the Minong trail where all the beavers are. I'm really glad
| we didn't this last time though, we got a TON of rain. I'm
| guessing the Minong would've been incredibly difficult to
| navigate, as the other areas were really bad.
|
| it was a heck of a trip though. I had a couple of up and
| down days but generally, it was a good one. It was my first
| hike, and it was a multi-day hike. So, in some ways I bit
| off more than I should've lol
| __mharrison__ wrote:
| Does it discuss the patagonian (transplanted) beavers?
| Zaloog wrote:
| https://www.hundredsofbeavers.com/
|
| Also worth a watch
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Reminds me of the (supposed) benefits of reintroducing wolves at
| Yellowstone; they reduced and got the elk population moving,
| reducing overgrazing, helping beavers recover, and helping rivers
| and biodiversity to recover.
|
| https://www.yellowstone.org/wolf-project/,
| https://rewilding.academy/how-wolves-change-rivers/
|
| Of course, that's Yellowstone which is a lot bigger and not
| populated by people. Wolves are returning (or, being allowed to
| return) to the Netherlands as well where they end up decimating
| sheep populations for the fun of it, much to the chagrin of
| farmers.
| world2vec wrote:
| Slightly off-topic but it's related to wolves.
|
| My parents' neighbours have a huge number of goats in their
| property. It really is in the middle of nowhere Northern
| Portugal and for decades everyone always said "oh the wolves
| are gone, they used to be such a menace to our animals but not
| anymore. Barely any need for guard dogs".
|
| However, there is a small (200~300) population of wolves and
| since Covid it seems they got less scared of people, or more
| brave and desperate because the intense forest fires have
| ravaged their turf. Last year they attacked the goats and
| killed dozens of them. It was, according to my dad, one of the
| goriest things he ever saw.
|
| Guess what, the guard dogs are back, nobody says it's all a
| thing in the past. On one hand it's great news that wolves are
| making a comeback but there's always the other side.
| loandbehold wrote:
| Is your parents' property fenced off? How does using guard
| dogs compare to having an electric fence?
| world2vec wrote:
| My parent's neighbours, they're not my parents' goats (they
| only have a few to keep their property clean).
|
| The neighbours have a big piece of land and electrifying
| the fences would be quite expensive, the guard dogs seem to
| be doing their jobs quite well, no attacks since then.
| incompleteCode wrote:
| What's the alternative here? No wolves and less biodiversity?
| That's detrimental in the long-term.
|
| The real issue here seems to be the forest fires that
| disturbed the wolves' equilibrium.
| world2vec wrote:
| I think it's good they're prospering! Was just telling an
| anecdote. Guard dogs and better fences seem to be working,
| they never had another attack since then.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| As someone with young kids... I want to be a free-range
| parent to the extent possible, but I'm not going to let my
| kids wander around in the forest if there are wolf packs
| loose in the area.
|
| This worked well in 1950s Britain because they had
| exterminated all large predators! Let's be real about that.
| For most of human history, nature was deadly.
| tinyplanets wrote:
| There have been a small number of cases where wolves attack
| humans, but the majority of attacks that do occur generally
| prey on cattle or sheep. With fencing and guard dogs, an
| equilibrium can be reached. Maybe have you kids wander with
| a protective dog. I don't want to see us continually
| destroy and suppress biodiversity because it's inconvenient
| for us.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| There have been a small number of cases where wolves
| attack humans because
|
| 1. Humans have spent centuries exterminating wolves
| anywhere humans regularly go.
|
| 2. Humans adapt their behavior to minimize the risk of
| attack by wild predators.
|
| This is like saying "relatively few people get mugged
| wandering around alone in the tenderloin at 3am". It's
| because everyone knows it's a terrible idea and avoids
| doing so. That doesn't make the area safe.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Let's put it into perspective. How many people get
| attacked by dogs vs wolves?
| world2vec wrote:
| To be honest, that area is very hilly and rough. Even
| without wolf packs loitering around I wouldn't recommend
| young kids wandering by themselves outside of the fenced
| areas.
| willismichael wrote:
| When you say kids, do you mean young goats or young humans?
| codingdave wrote:
| We have wolves and the occasional bear on our property.
| They cause problems with chickens and trash cans, not
| people. They don't want to mess with us any more than we
| want to be messed with, and they typically keep their
| distance to the point that we see their tracks, not them.
|
| I wouldn't tell a toddler to go play in the woods, you are
| correct about that, but the rest of us freely wander nature
| without fretting too much over it. I also just checked and
| there have been zero wolf attacks on humans in my state.
| Ever. We just aren't their preferred targets.
| whyenot wrote:
| I live in the SF Bay Area (Los Altos Hills). My neighbor used
| to raise miniature goats. A few years ago a mountain lion got
| into the goat pasture and killed all the goats. It was pretty
| gory. On the other hand, it seems like the mountain lions
| (and coyotes) are doing a pretty good job bringing down the
| local deer population. I wish they would also start eating
| the non-native wild turkeys that have migrated into my area
| over the past 5 years or so.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Of the 800,000 sheep in the Netherlands, dogs kill 13,000 every
| year. There's quite a smaller wolf population than dogs.
| thinkingemote wrote:
| The beavers were released yesterday in the UK: "the National
| Trust has legally released the first two pairs of Eurasian
| beavers to live in the wild in Purbeck, Dorset. "
|
| https://beavertrust.org/historic-first-official-wild-beaver-...
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwygxvzpkevo
| hedora wrote:
| Related: While Government Officials Spent 5 Years Planning,
| Beavers Built their Dam for Free in 48 Hours:
|
| https://boingboing.net/2025/02/05/while-government-officials...
|
| Now, if we could just train beavers to build affordable
| housing...
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| What do we do about the nimbyi beavers?
| Zigurd wrote:
| Nimbeavers went extinct for obvious reasons.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| I think you need an apex predator / mammal to solve affordable
| housing...
|
| Contractors' quotes 5x higher than for private buildings? Send
| a brown bear to talk to 'em.
|
| Limited government funding? Send a wild boar to budget
| meetings.
|
| Restrictive zoning laws? Put a mountain lion in the room at the
| next zoning review.
|
| NIMBYs don't want affordable housing? Wolves roam their
| neighborhood until NIMBYs agree to allow new housing.
|
| Lengthy approval process? A honey badger asks for approval.
|
| Economic disparity between rising housing costs and stagnant
| wages? Moose roams around in businesses until wages raise.
| hyperion2010 wrote:
| I love the idea of pricing all externalities as time required
| to be around dangerous animal. I think it would really help
| make the cost of externalities viscerally real in a way that
| helps stimulation the imagination :)
| whyenot wrote:
| I was afraid you would suggest giving all the regulators
| malaria.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| I am sad the American|European bison didn't get a call out.
|
| 800+ kg of stubborn disagreement.
| squigz wrote:
| I asked before when that post came up here: what is the point?
| hedora wrote:
| I live in an area where basic infrastructure like this is
| safety critical. It was installed 50-100 years ago over a
| weekend for ~ $10Ks of 2025 money, with no environmental
| impact and lasted half a century with zero upkeep.
|
| Now, with modern permits, etc, these projects take 5-10
| years, $10M's and have significant environmental impact.
|
| As a direct result, every few years, people around here burn
| to death or lose their homes or whatever.
|
| So, everyone is less safe, and the environment suffers.
|
| Also, I make jokes about beavers, because it's better than
| crying.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Permitting processes need reverse pressure: 'must reply or
| issue in ___ days' or it's granted by default.
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| Ok, this is hacker news, so let me put this in terms
| legible to a hacker: If "dropped queries" are forced to
| "grant permissions," you're establishing a system that
| rewards a targeted "dos attack."
|
| That could potentially lead to some downsides.
| trhway wrote:
| well, you can imagine that happens to the beaver who instead of
| building a dam insists on calling meetings and getting
| approvals... Natural selection so to speak.
|
| In the human population though the natural selection (i.e.
| whose children are going to be more successful?) seems in the
| current environment to favor the strategy of hoarding resources
| to yourself and denying them to the others.
| zabzonk wrote:
| As my late Mum often said about hedgehogs - "I want one! Or
| two!". I've always planned to have back-garden pond, which might
| be nice for beavers, but I don't suppose I will now, due to age
| and not being able to look after it. Sniff.
|
| Actually, you are not allowed to have pet European hedgehogs in
| the UK. Why not???
| justincormack wrote:
| I knew someone with a pet albino hedgehog. I thought it wS a
| european hedgehog but maybe not?
| itishappy wrote:
| > Actually, you are not allowed to have pet European hedgehogs
| in the UK. Why not???
|
| They're protected species in much of Europe, so the law is to
| prevent people from grabbing them out of their backyard.
|
| You can have African Pygmy Hedgehogs! My girlfriend and I owned
| 3, and they're adorable little menaces.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_hedgehog
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-toed_hedgehog
| zabzonk wrote:
| Seems a bit silly, seeing as hedgehogs are somewhat
| endangered in the UK. If they were bred for pets, we'd surely
| have more of them!
| jimnotgym wrote:
| I find it funny that its top predator, the badger, is also
| protected, despite being very common.
| zabzonk wrote:
| I came across both on the same day back in the early
| 1970s. I was hitching up the A1 to Edinburgh and got
| stuck, then I came across a hog trying to cross the very
| busy road, so I grabbed it and ran across and dumped it
| in the verge. A little later, still with thumb stuck out,
| I heard rustling in the undergrowth, and this black and
| white critter waddled past me as if I wasn't there.
|
| Kind of sad that people don't hitch anymore. You come
| across all sorts of stuff and people. My little brother
| was in a garage band and wrote a song called "Stick Out
| Your Thumb And Have Some Fun", which I liked.
| jamiek88 wrote:
| Badgers are protected mostly because of badger 'baiting'
| which is a medieval blood sport the populace is repulsed
| by yet is a persistent subculture.
| zabzonk wrote:
| A bit more complicated than that. There also issues about
| the spread of tuberculosis to cattle which encourages
| badger culls, but may or may not actually happen much.
|
| Baiting is obviously horrible though. And we in the UK
| also have vile "sports" such as hare-coursing. But we
| have more or less got rid of fox hunting.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| My mother lived in a gated community, in Maryland. They had a
| small lake.
|
| Beavers used to come up from the nearby park, and dam up the
| lake. They'd chew down the decorative cherry trees (boo), and
| Bradford Pear trees (yay).
|
| I was reading (maybe here), that beavers basically obviated a
| multimillion-dollar dam project, somewhere out West.
| perdomon wrote:
| Yes, beavers. They're very efficient an building dams but awful
| at following engineering instructions, often ignoring them
| altogether. They make for a very untrustworthy workforce and we
| should keep an eye on their behaviors especially around
| critical architecture.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| :)
|
| This was the story:
| https://www.voxnews.al/english/kosovabota/qeveria-po-e-
| plani...
| throwup238 wrote:
| The Beaver union has always had too much power.
| pawpatrolmumu wrote:
| Beavers are horrible creatures that tease, provoke and bait
| reactive dogs into attacking them. Some dogs may even get injured
| while killing them! Beavers should be banned!
| bloomingeek wrote:
| My goodness! Please, give us your source, I always suspected
| those flat tails and buck teeth were a vicissitude of some
| type.
| throw949494jfj wrote:
| He has no source! Dogs are angels who never attack anyone.
| Dogs would never attack wildlife!
|
| Beavers are the animals leave shit on streets, hospitals... z
| Timon3 wrote:
| I believe I've seen such behavior in the documentary film
| "Hundreds of Beavers".
| perdomon wrote:
| Castoreum is back on the menu, boys.
| standardUser wrote:
| From Wikipedia: "About 140 kilograms of castoreum are harvested
| a year. An average beaver has 100 - 200 grams of castor sacs.
| So less than 2000 wild beavers are trapped and killed each year
| for castoreum, mostly in Canada - Eurasian beaver population
| levels are still too low for trapping to be effective."
| acomjean wrote:
| My brother had some beavers move back into the stream near his
| house. I'm sure he'd happily ship them over to the UK. Knowing
| they'll be more next year means he'd probably give you an annual
| subscription.
|
| He doesn't really hate the beavers, just doesn't want them going
| after his pair tree, though he found a way to defend it. They're
| fascinating animals.
| shanecleveland wrote:
| A stream in my community that had been rerouted and straightened
| in the name of both farming and development was recently restored
| to a more natural course, including its flood plains. Beavers
| came back quickly. Most obvious sign, beyond the dams and ponds
| created, are the signature pointed stumps and felled trees. Some
| are significant in size, and have actually fallen across trails
| and roads. They have fenced around some trees bordering roads,
| and have gone in to do see preventative trimming. Pretty cool.
| time0ut wrote:
| I had no idea beavers were extinct in the UK. I hope they thrive.
|
| We have a family of beavers on some property in the US. It is
| fascinating to watch their effect on the landscape over time.
| Ours cycle between an upstream and downstream habitat every few
| years. They allow one to regrow while they harvest the other. The
| area they manage is a favorite spot for many other animals
| including deer, various birds, coyotes, foxes, etc.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| On several UK rivers, most notably the River Wye on the
| Welsh/English border, there exists a powerful river trust that
| has raised millions to remove 'barriers to salmon migration'.
| They took down and bypassed weirs on tributaries. They pulled out
| dead trees.
|
| Then other bodies started felling trees into their river to
| create habitat for juvenile fish.
|
| As an angler you might forgive me for thinking one of those
| bodies was in the wrong. Either way their conservation efforts
| have not mitigated the collapsing stocks of salmon over the two
| decades of their management.
|
| I for one am happy for the beavers to have a go instead
| TriangleEdge wrote:
| "Natural England has developed a detailed licencing regime and
| application process to make sure that stakeholders are engaged
| and landowners are supported."
|
| I don't understand what a stakeholder is in this context. Also,
| why are licenses involved? What does this even mean?
| seanw444 wrote:
| > Also, why are licenses involved?
|
| It's the UK.
|
| (Sorry, had to.)
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