[HN Gopher] Jeep owners fed up with in-car pop-up ads
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Jeep owners fed up with in-car pop-up ads
        
       Author : spudlyo
       Score  : 146 points
       Date   : 2025-03-05 21:09 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kbb.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kbb.com)
        
       | ypeterholmes wrote:
       | Advertising has gotten out of control. What's bizarre to me is
       | that the people violating us are literally the ones who want
       | something from us. Is there no way to boycott anyone advertising
       | in our car? AND the car itself of course.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | I didn't buy a Jeep because of stuff like this. The problem is
         | that when I looked at the competitors, for instance the Bronco,
         | they had their own little UI annoyances too. There wasn't
         | anything on the market that didn't annoy or insult me in one
         | way or another, so I ended up just buying a 25 year old Ranger.
         | The irony is that 25 years ago, I had a Ranger like the one I
         | own now, and it took me a series of seven modern vehicles, each
         | increasingly bad, to teach me the value of a simple,
         | unopinionated truck that just gets me to point B.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | If you can keep it on the road. I have a 25 year old car too.
           | I spend more on maintenance than fuel (I only drove it 2000
           | miles last year) Parts are getting hard to find. There is
           | rust that would be expensive to fix.
        
             | karaterobot wrote:
             | Runs like a champ, but yeah it has cost some money to keep
             | it that way. Nevertheless, FFR!
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | I have one that's a little over twice that age. Parts
             | availability, especially in the aftermarket, is still very
             | high for domestic classics, especially those based on the
             | stereotypical design, and I doubt that will change much in
             | the near future.
        
         | iAMkenough wrote:
         | > Is there no way to boycott anyone advertising in our car? AND
         | the car itself of course.
         | 
         | The obvious boycott would be to sell the car and never buy a
         | Jeep again. Until the next car you buy is also updated to
         | include ads and quietly sell tracking data they've collected
         | about your family, so then you sell that car and never buy from
         | that manufacturer again either.
         | 
         | Then before you know it, you end up buying an American-made
         | luxury sedan to take the kids to soccer because you've
         | convinced yourself that buying a premium ad-free car with the
         | optional monthly subscription for the seat warmers is worth the
         | investment and all the "affordable" options are either ad-
         | supported American-built cars or artificially overpriced due to
         | trade wars.
         | 
         | They'll backtrack if they lose enough money.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | The important part is getting others to do so as well. You
           | alone don't matter.
           | 
           | The big players here are KBB, edmunds, consumer reports, and
           | all the car magazines. If they scream manufactures will
           | listen.
        
           | timewizard wrote:
           | > The obvious boycott would be to sell the car
           | 
           | The overwhelming majority of people finance their vehicles.
           | It's not even their car to sell.
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | Can they take the car back? I'd want to return it. No one should
       | reasonably be expected to ask if their car is going to shove ads
       | in their face before buying. Was this something they saw during
       | test drives?
       | 
       | Increasingly, it looks like my next new car is going to have to
       | be an old car.
        
         | bdangubic wrote:
         | for sure they signed their life away on some form they did not
         | read when buying the car :)
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | Just because it is on a form doesn't mean it is legal.
           | Contracts are only legal if the words themselves are legal in
           | the country.
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | _Was this something they saw during test drives?_
         | 
         | No product manager with a lick of sense would allow that. No,
         | if online reports are to be trusted, it waits a while before
         | the ads start showing up.
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | you will live to see man made enshitification beyond your
       | comprehension
        
         | pacificmint wrote:
         | You know how there is the cliche that old people are always
         | ranting how everything was better in their day?
         | 
         | Personally, I'm not quite there yet, but the older I get, the
         | more I see their point...
        
           | recursivedoubts wrote:
           | the cliche is that it's a cliche
        
           | tanseydavid wrote:
           | Shifting Baseline Syndrome
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline
        
         | stragies wrote:
         | Or worse, some hacker/government locks your car doors, and
         | turns your car into a remote-controlled 2-ton 140mph ground-to-
         | ground projectile, while you're driving your kids to school.
        
           | recursivedoubts wrote:
           | i unironically believe this has been used to assassinate
           | people in the united states
        
             | LinuxBender wrote:
             | I believe that was the case with Anne Heche. She was
             | producing a documentary on child trafficking and was going
             | to name names. Her car drove her into a building. The ring
             | videos and audio can not be unseen or unheard. She was
             | trying hard to overpower the car with the brakes which were
             | not yet drive-by-wire. The media immediately said drugs and
             | alcohol were involved yet the toxicology report showed her
             | 100% clean.
        
               | stragies wrote:
               | Maybe there'll be some trickery they can do in future
               | versions with the AC to lower air pressure in the cabin,
               | so the occupant(s) pass out, and can't attempt to mess
               | with the cars "mission" anymore.
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | Speaking of ads, my Pi-hole about caught on fire when that page
       | loaded, and there's _still_ ads that it missed. The irony, given
       | the article topic, is not lost on me.
        
         | spudlyo wrote:
         | Right!? There is also a popup ad on that very site.
         | 
         | Here is a tip that I just recently learned that has improved my
         | browsing experience with uBlock Origin. In the settings menu
         | under "Filter Lists" there sections under the heading of
         | "Cookie notices" and "Annoyances" that are not enabled by
         | default. Blocking cookie popups has been wonderful, and I can
         | only imagine what kind of annoyances are now being blocked for
         | me.
        
           | thesuitonym wrote:
           | Does blocking the cookie popup allow all cookies? Seems like
           | that would be worse in my opinion.
        
             | spudlyo wrote:
             | Not entirely sure. I now flush all non-allowlisted cookies
             | on browser exit after moving to LibreWolf, so I'm less
             | concerned than I was about that sort of thing.
        
             | worble wrote:
             | Under GDPR, you must opt-in. So blocking the popup is the
             | same as no consent, if you're in the EU.
             | 
             | I don't trust random sites on the internet to follow the
             | law anyway, so nuking your cookies and localstorage when
             | you close the browser or navigate away is what you should
             | be doing if you're concerned about this sort of thing.
             | Obviously sites I need to stay logged into get on the
             | allowlist.
        
             | MaxikCZ wrote:
             | They need an explicit consent for those cookies, that's why
             | they are asking in the first place. You can not give
             | consent if you never click the Allow button.
             | 
             | TLDR: Blocking cookie popup = not allowing cookies.
        
           | harryquach wrote:
           | I hate cookie popups, this will improve my browsing
           | experience a ton, thanks for sharing!
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | With javascript turned off, I only see one (innocuous and
         | obviously broken) ad.
        
       | spudlyo wrote:
       | You wouldn't run an ad blocker on your car...
       | 
       | > But the problem could presage a more significant issue for
       | future drivers. Last year, Ford filed a patent for an in-car
       | advertising system that would use the car's speakers and display
       | screen to serve ads to drivers and passengers. That system would
       | also use the car's GPS tracker to serve ads relevant to the
       | driver's route.
       | 
       | This is some Black Mirror type dystopian vision of the future for
       | me. Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV" I imagine in the
       | future it might be impossible to buy a dumb car that doesn't have
       | these kinds of features built into the head unit.
        
         | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
         | > _Just like nowadays you can 't buy a "dumb TV" _
         | 
         | You can, if you buy used. I know it's weird to buy a used TV,
         | but they cost pennies on the dollar and you can get some really
         | nice models without today's ubiquitous annoyances.
         | 
         | Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new
         | cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the
         | road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Or just modify them. People used to replace their stereo, I
           | suspect there would be a real market for add free
           | infotainment systems.
        
             | smackeyacky wrote:
             | This is already difficult on 20 year old vehicles, in the
             | future it might be impossible.
             | 
             | The combination of weird speaker ohm specs, CAN Bus
             | controlled factory amplifiers, integrated vehicle
             | information systems (where the display is across several
             | screens) in modern cars and the abandonment of the DIN
             | stereo size make doing aftermarket installs harder and
             | harder.
             | 
             | The Chinese are producing some astounding things - you can
             | buy a drop-in centre console replacement for an older
             | Chrysler 300C that looks factory but has a big touch
             | screen, Carplay/Android Auto and a dongle that interfaces
             | with the CAN bus based amplifier and steering wheel
             | buttons. I suspect for really popular cars this will be an
             | option, but it can't be done for every car released.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | This is already a huge issue - I actually had to pay
               | attention to CarPlay integration because most cars the
               | infotainment system is tied to the car itself (and not
               | just the steering wheel controls), and you need it. Many
               | of the car's settings can't be changed anywhere but on
               | the "radio".
        
             | jmward01 wrote:
             | It would be great to be able to buy a car and then delete
             | the OS and install something I trusted on it but I can't
             | imagine they will ever allow that. (If this is a real thing
             | and I don't know about it please post here!) The printer
             | world is the model I bet the car companies are all looking
             | at WRT this approach. Litigate/claim DRM/make it hard or
             | impossible for aftermarket/etc etc. Basically, these
             | companies are the adversary as opposed to a partner in your
             | driving experience.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | Not only will "they" fight you but even here on a place
               | literally called Hacker News will people screech about
               | how you shouldn't be able to run your own software on
               | your own car because of safety implications or whatever
        
             | photonthug wrote:
             | > or just modify them
             | 
             | Sorry but this is just not an appropriate level of outrage
             | and reads like corporate apologism. If you go to the doctor
             | for a broken arm, you don't expect to get an inner ear
             | implant whispering "wouldn't you like a Coca Cola?" as part
             | of the fix. Sure maybe another doctor will take it out, but
             | it's abusive and unnecessary, and fixing the abuse after
             | the fact is just extra cost for the customer.
             | 
             | In any sane world, the market would recognize that thirsty
             | bullshit like this is a signal that the perpetrators are
             | completely out of ideas in their field and have started
             | grasping at tiny amounts of cash they can get by selling
             | their customers instead of their products, rather than
             | being in it for the long term. In other words.. all in on
             | looting the brand value, taking the money, and exiting
             | ASAP.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | >Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new
           | cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the
           | road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint.
           | 
           | The opposite seems to be what happens. The manufacturers
           | cater even harder to premium consumers who aren't in it for
           | the long haul so you get heated subscription seats and stupid
           | doodads that nobody needs but seem impressive on the test
           | drive.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | They can only pull that off because used car buyers put up
             | with it. People who buy used cars have the option of buying
             | a non-luxury new car, but they have consistently chosen the
             | luxury versions used. (all cars have a lot of luxury
             | features, but the least luxury models exist and don't sell
             | well)
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | For how long? Used TVs don't last forever.
           | 
           | I just bought a new car (well 3 years old) because the
           | transmission was going on the old one and at 240k miles the
           | cost to fix it was more than the car was worth. Even if I had
           | fixed it, the body was already showing signs of rust. (the
           | new one is also a plug in hybrid which I believe over 10
           | years will save the difference between fixing the old one and
           | this one - but only time will tell)
        
         | asimovfan wrote:
         | I, Robot the movie was like that
        
         | doublerabbit wrote:
         | Speed will be next; subscription based.
         | 
         | 150$ a month to enable acceleration greater than 50mph.
        
         | cultofmetatron wrote:
         | > Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV"
         | 
         | you can buy a computer monitor and connect it to apple tv. sure
         | it won't be as big but it can't phone home.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | Some monitor brands have started pushing wifi connections.
           | Samsung has "smart" monitors now, other manufacturers
           | probably do too
        
         | bryanlarsen wrote:
         | > you can't buy a "dumb TV"
         | 
         | They are sold as monitors and digital signage displays and cost
         | a lot more than a consumer TV.
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Even on aliexpress?
        
           | rikafurude21 wrote:
           | Every TV is essentially a dumb TV until you connect it to the
           | internet. I bought a cheap TV and only use the remote to turn
           | it on and have it connected via HDMI.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | Unless it complains at you to connect it to wifi when you
             | turn it on.
        
               | rikafurude21 wrote:
               | I've seen higher end Samsung TVs do this, or probably
               | most Android TVs I'd assume.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Vizio, so far, is quite nice in this regard, you power it
               | on, it asks you to accept an agreement, you say no, and
               | it says, welp, I guess I'm a dumb TV now.
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | I intended on using mine that way, but honestly the built
             | in Netflix and USB stick player are decent enough. As long
             | as your receiver does the eARC thing it should all be fine.
        
               | rikafurude21 wrote:
               | It's always the convienent features that kill privacy.
               | Sadly you have to put in more effort if you care about
               | privacy at all
        
               | seanw444 wrote:
               | Convenience and privacy are typically mutually exclusive.
        
             | elaus wrote:
             | Not sure if they are a reality or just a MBA's wet dream
             | yet: TVs with integrated eSIM to not even require WIFI for
             | transmitting usage data and ads.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | The largest "monitor" I can see on Newegg right now is 48"
           | diagonal:
           | 
           | https://www.newegg.ca/lg-48gq900-b-48-uhd-120-hz-refresh-
           | rat...
           | 
           | And that's an outlier-- most are 27-36", with 32" being the
           | overwhelming sweet spot.
           | 
           | In contrast, my TV is 77" diagonal, and most people would
           | consider 55" to be about the minimum size for a new TV at
           | this point, outside of special applications such as the
           | bedroom/kitchen/etc. I don't know where I'd begin to go about
           | purchasing a 77" 4K display from a digital signage vendor.
        
             | p_ing wrote:
             | https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/commercial-
             | tvs/
             | 
             | Samsung makes them larger than 77".
        
             | coderenegade wrote:
             | I've used projectors for the past 15-odd years. Modern ones
             | are very, very good in that they're portable, can run on
             | batteries, don't need to be plugged directly into your
             | laptop etc. The trade-off is that we don't really watch
             | anything until the evening. The only ads we see are the
             | ones from streaming services.
        
               | setsewerd wrote:
               | Yeah, my setup the last couple years has been a 4k
               | projector + blackout curtains + casting movies via
               | Airplay from my laptop. The screen ends up being over 90"
               | horizontally (haven't measured diagonally). Zero ads, and
               | the curtains make it usable even with sun hitting the
               | window.
        
               | Marsymars wrote:
               | I also have a projector, but from what I've seen, newer
               | ones include Google TV or whatever, so in practice aren't
               | especially different from TVs.
        
             | webworker wrote:
             | I have a hard time understanding why anyone would buy a
             | physical tv that big. I decided to get a projector. Huge
             | surface area. Goes away/out of my sight for the 98% of the
             | time I'm not using/watching it.
        
             | Telemakhos wrote:
             | My gf and I don't have a television, but we watch Ghibli
             | movies on my 13" laptop on a stool parked in front of my
             | couch. In CRT's heydey, you'd have to be pretty rich to get
             | more than a 24" screen, and that was just fine back then.
             | The brain focuses attention on the story and blocks out
             | everything else, the same way that you don't notice the
             | rest of the theater during an opera or play (at least one
             | that's engrossing).
             | 
             | So, if the trade-off is size vs advertising, I'd prefer to
             | have a small, ad-free monitor instead of a large ad-box.
        
           | carom wrote:
           | I have a Sceptre from Walmart. No internet connection. I run
           | all services from an Apple TV. You can definitely buy a dumb
           | TV.
        
             | Marsymars wrote:
             | Last I checked, availability on those dumb Sceptres was
             | trending to zero.
        
           | outer_web wrote:
           | Aren't the viewing angles on monitors way smaller?
        
         | MaxBarraclough wrote:
         | > you can't buy a "dumb TV"
         | 
         | Which is regrettable, but it's easy enough to just keep it
         | offline. Presumably there's no such opt-out for drivers of
         | these vehicles.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | How long until new TVs tell you that you must be connected to
           | the internet to use them? Doesn't seem insane at all. Seems
           | like something that's probably being brought up at product
           | meetings at, e.g., Samsung with increasing frequency.
        
           | mb7733 wrote:
           | I bought a TCL smart tv and I was forced to connect to a
           | network & sign in to something before I could use an external
           | HDMI input. If there's a workaround I gave up finding it.
        
         | ericmay wrote:
         | Car-only infrastructure which is pervasive in America is a
         | liability to the country and the economy.
         | 
         | I can just not buy a TV and my life is great. Probably better.
         | I can't not buy a car except in a few select locations if I
         | want to participate in the economy.
         | 
         | That's both dangerous and fragile.
        
           | kccqzy wrote:
           | That has little to do with advertising though. When you
           | drive, you still see billboards with advertising. When you
           | take public transit, the buses and the trains can have ads
           | inside and outside.
        
             | ale42 wrote:
             | Yes but you don't own the bus/train nor the road with the
             | billboards. But supposedly, you do own the car. Do cars get
             | cheaper by adding ads inside? Nope.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Yes but you don't own the bus/train nor the road with
               | the billboards. But supposedly, you do own the car
               | 
               | As opposed to a TV that you own? You even paid for the
               | cable subscription.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | I took the bus from the airport into Istanbul, and it had a
             | horribly bright screen in front of every seat, with
             | flashing adverts and constantly moving - after a flight, I
             | was already feeling nauseous. I managed to cover it with a
             | jacket and ignore the ones further away, but it was a very
             | unpleasant experience.
        
               | Marsymars wrote:
               | I'd consider a socially positive action to render those
               | screens inoperable.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | as a foreigner who didn't speak the local language, I
               | didn't think vandalism was a good idea.
        
               | Marsymars wrote:
               | Yes, ideally they could be disabled by some enterprising
               | local youths who are too young to face consequences.
        
             | striking wrote:
             | Yeah, but at least buses and trains are accountable to the
             | voter in one way or another... and I can still wear
             | headphones.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | You can vote with your wallet and buy a car that doesn't
               | have ads. The best you can do with ads on buses and
               | trains is show up in your next city council meeting and
               | raise a stink, only to be told that the transit agency
               | signed a 10 year contract and can't pull out.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | This assumes that no other manufacturer will put ads in
               | their cars. Hopefully that's the case!
               | 
               | I think the concern is that once/if a critical mass of
               | manufacturers include in-car ads, the rest can follow
               | (because people still need vehicles in most areas), and
               | the consumer has no more choice.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | Is there any reason to believe they won't have a higher
               | ad-free tier instead? If they get $500 LTV from showing
               | ads, why wouldn't they offer a $1000 ad-free
               | subscription? Seems to work fine with streaming
               | platforms, for instance.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | > _Is there any reason to believe they won 't have a
               | higher ad-free tier instead?_
               | 
               | I mean, this is still awful, right? Subscriptions for the
               | car I spent tens of thousands of dollars on?
               | 
               | > _Seems to work fine with streaming platforms, for
               | instance._
               | 
               | It's awful here, too, in my opinion. But tolerable
               | because I didn't spend multiple years paying to own the
               | product.
        
               | davidcbc wrote:
               | > You can vote with your wallet and buy a car that
               | doesn't have ads.
               | 
               | For now.
               | 
               | I've yet to see an advertisement on a bus or train that
               | wasn't easily ignorable. It's a lot harder to ignore
               | things when you're driving
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | Did the owners know they would be served ads when they
               | purchased the car? That's not clear to me.
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | This sort of misses the point, and treats all advertisement
             | as equally annoying.
             | 
             | Advertisements _inside my car_ , especially if the begin to
             | use my speakers, is infinitely more annoying than a
             | billboard (which, yes, is also annoying).
             | 
             | Advertisements on trains/etc. are more annoying than
             | billboards, but less annoying than advertisements in
             | _something I am supposed to own_.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | > When you drive, you still see billboards with
             | advertising.
             | 
             | Far more so in the US[0] than in any of the parts of Europe
             | I've lived in or visited[1].
             | 
             | [0] Around much of CA, RI, MA, passing through NV and CT,
             | and the cities of NYC, Salt Lake City and Newark in NY, UT
             | and NJ.
             | 
             | [1] Spain, France, UK, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands,
             | Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, Italy, Austria, Poland,
             | Hungry, Finland, Greece, Cyprus.
        
             | cafard wrote:
             | Some states sharply restrict roadside advertising--Maryland
             | does, Pennsylvania doesn't.
             | 
             | The bus advertising business seemed to have taken a beating
             | a few years back. It is true that in Washington the bus
             | shelters have ads, often electronic.
        
             | spudlyo wrote:
             | Whenever AR glasses with ad-blockers are available, I will
             | be an early adopter.
        
             | Marsymars wrote:
             | > When you drive, you still see billboards with
             | advertising. When you take public transit, the buses and
             | the trains can have ads inside and outside.
             | 
             | I regularly complain about both of those things to all of
             | the relevant political and transit authorities.
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | People aren't going to stop using cars because of ads,
           | they're just going to put up with almost anything because
           | they have to in order to survive.
           | 
           | The car industry is probably one of the most stable economic
           | pillars the US has.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >The car industry is probably one of the most stable
             | economic pillars the US has.
             | 
             | You mean the industry that famously went bankrupt in 2008
             | and had to be bailed out? Looking at the list of
             | sectors[1], there are plenty of sectors that I think are
             | more stable: Consumer staples, utilities, and healthcare.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.sectorspdrs.com/sectortracker
        
               | ics wrote:
               | The fact that it was bailed out says something about its
               | place in American society. Stable might not be the best
               | description but it does seem to be one thing which is
               | taken for granted.
        
               | tmpz22 wrote:
               | What about Teslas P/E ratio, not to mention Musks dual
               | responsibility as CEO and head of DOGE?
        
               | xboxnolifes wrote:
               | Car industry is rock solid, like the housing market.
        
             | rootsudo wrote:
             | "The car industry is probably one of the most stable
             | economic pillars the US has."
             | 
             | I disagree, https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/debt-
             | statistics/
             | 
             | "The average car payment for new vehicles was $737 per
             | month in the third quarter of 2024, up 0.7% from Q3 2023
             | 
             | Auto loan delinquency rates are up compared to last year.
             | 4.6% of outstanding auto debt was at least 90 days late in
             | Q3 2024, according to the New York Fed, up 17.4% from Q3
             | 2023. Meanwhile, the percentage of auto loans that fell to
             | 30 days past due was 8.1% in the third quarter of this
             | year, up 9.9% from 7.4% in the third quarter of last year."
             | 
             | I'm shocked that a somewhat predeatory lending company has
             | great statistics about this - the whole article is
             | interesting.
             | 
             | As for manufacturing, I also disagree -- due to current
             | affairs w/ Trump and tariffs :
             | https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
             | transportation/trump-...
             | 
             | Oh yeah, something something they all took bailouts in 2008
             | and Ford was the only one that could pay the loans back
             | while GM killed off several brands e.g. Oldsmobile and
             | Pontiac.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | Or you know...we could just not put ads in cars.
           | 
           | People get so weird about easily solvable problems, like the
           | developer who gets tasked to make the button red and instead
           | writes an entire theme engine abstraction even though there's
           | exactly one user.
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | > _People get so weird about easily solvable problems_
             | 
             | Please tell me how _I_ , someone who doesn't manufacture
             | cars, can easily solve the problem of _manufacturers_
             | choosing to put advertisements in cars?
        
           | SJC_Hacker wrote:
           | I think its more than just a "few selection locations". Its
           | the majority of major metropolitan areas.
           | 
           | Especially with Uber, Doordash, Instacart, etc. Having a car
           | is almost a liability in many instances.
           | 
           | Now I agree this gets to be a dodgy proposition if you have
           | kids, and the further out you are from major pop centers.
           | Suburbs maybe, rural areas are definitely out.
           | 
           | I did for many years and definitely contributed to the
           | economy
        
           | psunavy03 wrote:
           | At some point I really don't get how people can't just accept
           | that historically, the US is a car-centric suburban-centric
           | culture, and that's just who we largely are. If you want to
           | do things like improve the environment, you can either scream
           | and stamp your feet about it or you can meet people where
           | they are and devise solutions that work in a car-centric
           | culture.
           | 
           | It just is what it is, like Brits drinking tea, Scandinavians
           | liking their saunas, or the French being obnoxious about
           | Frenchness.
        
             | malcolmgreaves wrote:
             | You need to be a student of history, otherwise you'll be
             | blinded by the present and make these kinds of very wrong
             | conclusions.
             | 
             | The US was the world leader in railroads. US cities had
             | state of the rail based public transit systems. LA had the
             | most extensive streetcar system in the world. Even St Louis
             | used to be as accessible as NYC.
             | 
             | People changed because corporations lied to the public and
             | meticulously destroyed public transit in the US.
             | 
             | People can change again.
        
             | marssaxman wrote:
             | That's a shallow, post-WWII vision of history. The US used
             | to build great cities, then it bulldozed large parts of
             | them to build the present highway-centric dystopia. If one
             | radical change was possible then, so is another, now.
             | 
             | The car-centric, suburban-centric culture cannot be
             | sustained economically or ecologically, and will therefore
             | come to an end. How do we want that to happen -
             | intentionally and progressively, or catastrophically?
        
             | ericmay wrote:
             | I don't think your historical analysis is very correct.
             | What you think of as car-centric suburban-centric culture
             | didn't really arise until after World War II. It's really a
             | relatively new thing, even considering how young the United
             | States is.
             | 
             | Obesity rates track historically with car-centric culture,
             | should we just accept that is who we are, or can we work on
             | cultural and policy changes that alleviate that problem?
             | 
             | Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same
             | car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive
             | and bad for the country so they reverted. We can and should
             | keep cars, but our _reliance_ on them for our very
             | existence is quite fragile and unnecessary.
             | 
             | Why does the average American have to spend $300 -
             | $800/month or more in direct costs (insurance, gasoline,
             | tires, loan payments, etc.) plus indirect costs (taxes for
             | infrastructure) in order to go to the grocery store to buy
             | a tomato or take their children to a playground?
             | 
             | > If you want to do things like improve the environment,
             | you can either scream and stamp your feet about it or you
             | can meet people where they are and devise solutions that
             | work in a car-centric culture.
             | 
             | Instead of "screaming and stamping my feet" - isn't that
             | what Road Rage is? I prefer to just work with organizations
             | and political leaders to devise and implement solutions
             | that reduce our need for car-centric culture and improve
             | our economic resilience. That means fewer surface parking
             | lots which are economic outflows, more bike lanes, slower
             | speed limits, and better roadway design that incorporates
             | segmented bike lanes, bus lanes, and more.
        
             | eszed wrote:
             | Apart from the points made by sibling posters, markets
             | reveal preferences. The eye-watering price of urban land
             | suggests that many, many more people would prefer to live
             | in cities than currently do.
             | 
             | (Full disclosure: I am one of them. Reluctantly living in a
             | suburb because kids; will move back to the City as soon as
             | they get their thumb out and build enough housing to make
             | it more affordable.)
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | I know this wasn't your point, but Sceptre still makes dumb
         | TVs. The real problem is finding anything to watch without ads.
         | Hulu has already changed their terms of service to say you
         | might still get some ads on the "ad free" tier.
        
           | adamtaylor_13 wrote:
           | As soon as that happens, I drop them. There's no reality in
           | which I pay someone money to watch ads. Absolutely not.
           | 
           | I suppose it will be a bigger deal for folks who really enjoy
           | TV and don't want to miss it. But man... I can't help but
           | think of how much better myself and my family will be if they
           | push me over that edge.
           | 
           | FAFO, Hulu, FAFO.
        
         | Apofis wrote:
         | This is absurd, they are attempting to turn your Car into a
         | Cable TV set top box. Cable used to be ad free too! That's one
         | of the biggest reasons everyone fled to Netflix.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | In car infotainment advertising needs to be banned at the state
         | level, likewise much of the telemetry they send home. State
         | legislation is good for this kind of thing. Like you cannot
         | sell a car with this feature in the state or display such
         | advertising while on state roads, possibly even you cannot
         | register a car in the state with this feature.
        
           | seanw444 wrote:
           | All it'd take really is one or two of the big states banning
           | it, and they'd be financially incentivized to disable it for
           | all markets. That's how it seems to have gone for other
           | things in the past.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | I like driving sporty/sports cars and I'm not getting new
         | stuff, so works out for me. I don't mind driving a 10+yr older
         | car.
         | 
         | I don't disagree it's an ahole move
         | 
         | "why are we getting off at this exit? there is a sale
         | nearby..."
        
         | cafard wrote:
         | And then when you stop at a gas station, the pump plays ads at
         | you.
        
           | Marsymars wrote:
           | If all the gas stations around me started doing that, it
           | would single-handedly get me to convert to an EV.
        
         | adamtaylor_13 wrote:
         | There's going to be a lucrative aftermarket industry around
         | removing that shit.
         | 
         | Dystopian doesn't even begin to describe this situation. These
         | executives are out of their mind.
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | The entire automotive industry is moving to cryptographically
           | secured software and comms. Aftermarket garages are already
           | struggling with the burden of getting access to manufacturer
           | docs and equipment that's officially supported.
        
         | npongratz wrote:
         | > This is some Black Mirror type dystopian vision of the future
         | for me.
         | 
         | Indeed. I always assumed this was the impetus for FSD: these
         | vehicles confine the most captive audience, so they will be a
         | surveillance/advertising gold mine.
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | The charitable interpretation would be to augment/optimize ads
         | which would otherwise be less useful. The counterfactual is not
         | "silence". It is your radio/podcast/spotify that already have
         | ads.
         | 
         | You are trading ads for relevant ads.
        
         | etrautmann wrote:
         | This is maybe the best way to get people to stop buying cars
         | and look for alternative modes of transport!
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | Are there any kind souls on HN with the financial resources to
         | patent these sorts of "features" before any of these other
         | companies do, and thereby spare the rest of us from 20 years of
         | ads and tracking?
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | As I was reading this story, a pop-up advert appeared.
       | 
       | They're everywhere, man! Isn't it time to have an alternative to
       | capitalism? UBI and cooperative gift economies (science, open
       | source etc.)
        
         | the_third_wave wrote:
         | No, it is not time to try to revive the desiccated corpse of
         | socialism once again for the I-do-not-know-how-manyeth-time.
         | Pick up some history books, real ones that is, not Howard Zinn
         | and read where that path takes you. Redistribution does not
         | work when there isn't anyone left to pluck which tends to be
         | the outcome of that pipe dream.
         | 
         | Capitalism, warts and all is still the best way to lift people
         | out of poverty. You may not like the fact that some people have
         | way more than others (and objectively speaking way more than
         | they need) but the people who saw and see their income lift
         | above the poverty line would not like to see it go down again
         | once the next "people's party" gets to power.
        
       | mfro wrote:
       | Year of The Adult Depend Undergarment
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | Previouslies:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43009682
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43163333
        
         | spudlyo wrote:
         | Huh, I thought for sure the article must have made the rounds
         | here at some point, but I presumed the de-duper would catch it.
        
       | doublerabbit wrote:
       | lol, you think Jeep care?
       | 
       | Backlash sure, but five years later they're probably put
       | advertising in your steering wheel.
        
         | drpossum wrote:
         | I've found Jeep owners are their own brand of crazy. It's
         | probably one of the few car cults that would endlessly put up
         | with this kind of abuse because they just can't imagine NOT
         | making their Jeep _the_ core part of their identity.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | It's a Heep thing. You wouldn't understand.
        
       | NickC25 wrote:
       | Absurd that cars are now seen as an advertising platform by car
       | makers. A car's stereo or display system randomly blasting ads at
       | you (the driver) should be treated for what it really is -
       | intentionally distracting the driver when the vehicle is in
       | operation. That shit should be illegal. It's dumb at best, and
       | incredibly dangerous at worst.
        
         | smackeyacky wrote:
         | Well, AM and FM radio are plagued with ads, always were and
         | always will be. As far as I can see this is just a replacement
         | for the fact that nobody listens to radio in their car any
         | more.
         | 
         | There is an entire older generation that is used to ads being
         | blasted in their cars. The visual assault is new though.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | Is that the same? In my vehicles if an ad starts playing I
           | can push a button and be listening to another station or I
           | can listen to a CD or MP3. Does it work that way when ads pop
           | up in these distracted-driver-tainment systems?
        
           | npongratz wrote:
           | The AM and FM radio ads cannot surveil you like the GPS- and
           | cell-enabled (and forced) in-vehicle advertising systems do.
        
             | tantalor wrote:
             | Some people might prefer an ad which is relevant to their
             | location over something extremely generic and less useful.
             | 
             | Sharing location does not necessarily need to impact
             | privacy.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Someone should try to press this as a lemon law issue
       | 
       | > A vehicle is considered a lemon if it has at least one defect
       | that substantially that impairs the use, safety, or market value
       | and the car has not been repaired after a reasonable number of
       | attempts.
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | More like road safety. Ads are meant to be payed attention to,
         | which is an anti feature when you are supposed to be focused on
         | driving.
         | 
         | Same thing really with infotainment and requiring them for
         | basic car functionality. Most of them suck anyways and you
         | cannot operate a touch screen without looking at it. Stop
         | putting climate control behind that screen.
        
       | throw94040 wrote:
       | There are legal sanctions for refusing to update software in a
       | car, and for blocking it from internet. There is no way out!
        
       | reverendsteveii wrote:
       | It used to be a compromise: a product was free and ad-supported,
       | a one-time cost up-front or a subscription. Now these capitalists
       | think they can have it coming, going and staying right here with
       | a car that you buy, that has subscription services in it and
       | still shows you ads. I won't ever buy a car that shows ads and if
       | all the cars on the market show ads I will break mine so that it
       | stops doing that.
        
       | elzbardico wrote:
       | Find out the addresses of Jeep Executives. Get a car with giant
       | loudspeakers and outdoor projectors and display ads at their
       | houses 24/7.
        
         | spanktheuser wrote:
         | Michael Moore did something very close to this in the mid-90s
         | for his briefly-lived TV Nation. Parked a series of cars in
         | front of the home of a car alarm company CEO and set them off.
        
         | 0hijinks wrote:
         | No, no, you see: that would be a violation of local noise
         | ordinance and is inhumane. Of course, a constant drip-feed of
         | their banners and jingles in your private life is their right
         | as a corporation.
        
       | ImJasonH wrote:
       | > Get More From KBB.com / Simply choose the content you'd like to
       | receive below and we'll send it straight to your inbox.
       | 
       | The irony.
        
       | jmward01 wrote:
       | > "They attributed the persistent nature of the ad to a temporary
       | software glitch that affected the opt-out functionality in
       | certain cases..."
       | 
       | I attribute the glitch to the fact that ads are being presented
       | at all. Seriously. Why would anyone buy from these people? How
       | can someone look at the electronics in a modern vehicle and not
       | think that they are a huge negative and not a positive? I Would
       | love it if those electronics were there for me but it has been
       | clear for a long time now that they are there to take advantage
       | of me. Every touch screen/gps screen/etc makes me think 'this
       | vehicle tracks everything I do, sells it to my worst enemy and
       | will advertise/nag me to make more money and not to help me out'
        
       | vondur wrote:
       | Ha, maybe they will reduce the price of the vehicles if the owner
       | agrees to ads? Much like the Amazon Kindle with the ad supported
       | versions.
        
         | drpossum wrote:
         | DO NOT GIVE THEM IDEAS
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | Honestly this would be an improvement over the status quo.
           | You get a choice in the matter, and unlike it being sprung on
           | you after you bought it, you presumably would know upfront.
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | Stellantis does not have the financials to make this happen.
        
       | gregw134 wrote:
       | > Last year, Ford filed a patent for an in-car advertising system
       | that would use the car's speakers and display screen to serve ads
       | to drivers and passengers
       | 
       | I've owned Ford stock for 10 years, I think I'll finally sell it
       | today
        
       | polski-g wrote:
       | If you are unhappy with these, you should contact your state
       | legislators to have this practice banned. Particularly if you are
       | in California.
        
       | notatoad wrote:
       | will stuffing them full of ads finally be the thing that
       | convinces people to give up the emotional attachment they have to
       | their cars?
        
       | jklinger410 wrote:
       | Somewhat tangential: JEEP products that are not the traditional
       | Wrangler and all of it's myriad variations are most likely the
       | worst American vehicles ever made. I'm talking the Grand
       | Cherokee, Wagoneer, Compass, etc.
       | 
       | This crap is being tried on that vehicle because JEEP drivers are
       | some of the least discerning car buyers on the market. A perfect
       | test bed for the most toxic features American manufacturers can
       | imagine.
       | 
       | So it's a great sign that they are noticing and complaining. If
       | this group can't handle it, hopefully they will consider it a
       | failed experiment. For now.
        
         | rpcope1 wrote:
         | Jeep hasn't built anything worth a damn since Chrysler picked
         | it up off of AMC in its dying breaths, and MOPAR has not ever
         | built anything that wasn't a flaming pile of shit for many,
         | many decades. It's a shame, you'll never see another useful
         | great vehicle like an XJ, YJ or CJ-8, and if you try (like
         | Mahindra did with the Roxor) and it looks too much like a
         | "Jeep" you'd better bet Chrysler is going to shut that shit
         | down quick.
         | 
         | You should have said that people who buy Fiat Chrysler are
         | basically blind and undiscerning because the whole company
         | basically operates on generating total garbage with few
         | exceptions (some Cummins powered trucks be among those).
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | I'd probably never buy a Ram/Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep brand car if I
         | can avoid it. There's a reason why Chrysler joined with Fiat,
         | then Fiat-Chrysler turned into Stellantis. And none of them are
         | a ringing endorsement.
        
       | hu3 wrote:
       | Reason #999 for preferring home office.
       | 
       | Soon long commutes will mean even more exposure to ads.
       | 
       | It was already the case with billboards anyway.
       | 
       | Now billboards are being forced inside your car.
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | If there's one thing that _might_ save us here, it 's that ads
         | within the vehicle, delivered via the entertainment system
         | unexpectedly, are a potential safety hazard.
        
           | npongratz wrote:
           | I can just hear the pitch to auto CEOs and "business
           | development" execs:
           | 
           | " _... now with full self-driving! Where your captive
           | audience can 't use the safety excuse for avoiding your very
           | important and lucrative propaganda!_"
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | Activists sometimes hack the digital billboards. Just a matter
         | of time till they find a way to play something loud and raunchy
         | in _all the cars_ whilst taking away the UI controls using
         | javascript.
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | Is there anything new since this story 22 days ago that seems to
       | cover the exact same events?
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43009682
        
       | i1856511 wrote:
       | I cannot read this article because of a pop-up ad on the website.
        
       | gotoeleven wrote:
       | Its this kind of stuff that made me a little disappointed when
       | they figured out that that meteor was going to miss earth.
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | This seems like something a car company would do if it were
       | hurtling towards bankruptcy for the third time in a human
       | lifetime.
       | 
       | And lo, that's exactly what Jeep's parent company, Stellantis, is
       | doing.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | we are in a cultural nadir of car design. vindicating that I
       | bought a jeep with stick, rolldown windows, no bluetooth, no
       | infotainment, no electric locks.
       | 
       | guess I'm about to become a vintage car collector.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | _guess I 'm about to become a vintage car collector._
         | 
         | Same. My truck is already a classic. People ask if I really
         | love that truck and then I explain the de-evolution that is
         | taking place in _modern_ vehicles. When that truck fails and if
         | I can 't find anything I will happily ride into town on my 1947
         | tractor or a horse or my old side-by-side.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | I had a similar experience with a used Ford car I bought from
       | CarMax trying to shove SiriusXM down my throat like please man.
        
       | aCodeCrafter wrote:
       | This makes me so glad I own 2003 Toyota Corolla
        
       | osmsucks wrote:
       | The distracting nature of ads is a problem here: on a computer or
       | smartphone, it's merely an annoyance; behind the wheel of a
       | massive and fast moving vehicle, it could lead to deaths.
       | 
       | IMHO ads in a car infotainment system should be outlawed. Let me
       | focus on the road, and if I need to stare at the infotainment
       | screen, let it be just for the GPS navigation.
        
       | rurp wrote:
       | This is disgusting. It's already getting hard to find new cars
       | that don't include a bunch of "features" that make the experience
       | worse. Something as greedy and adversarial as turning a personal
       | vehicle into an ad platform is a hard no from me; I will never
       | purchase a car with this included.
       | 
       | My one hope is that there are enough car manufacturers on the
       | market for competition to stifle this. That doesn't work in many
       | areas of tech because they are controlled by a monopoly or
       | duopoly. Chrome is free to dump all over users because Google
       | leveraged their other monopolies to drive out competition and
       | gain a browser monopoly.
       | 
       | This kind of anti-consumer behavior that tech pioneered has
       | really lowered my opinion of the whole industry.
        
       | GuestFAUniverse wrote:
       | Bill Hicks "seeds" didn't seem to have bloomed yet.
       | 
       | So here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | Alternate link that's not blocked in the US:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/9h9wStdPkQY?si=atHZI0pewp9ThV_Y
        
       | SJC_Hacker wrote:
       | Many industries have run out of ideas for new products/features.
       | The only card they have left is more and more control of the
       | lives. At least until AGI is reached when we're not needed and
       | can be disposed of.
        
       | rpcope1 wrote:
       | This among many other problems with "Jeeps" feel so profane given
       | the marque's heritage. I guess there's good reasons you'll
       | probably see a significant number of XJs, TJs, YJs, CJs and ZJs
       | probably still rolling down the road (with basically all of the
       | sheet metal replaced) long, long after the current crop of
       | garbage has been crushed.
       | 
       | That all said, I would gladly fork over whatever money someone
       | wanted just for a new XJ, just the way they were in 04 or 98, or
       | a similar time machine GMT400 or GMT800 truck from GM.
        
       | jsight wrote:
       | My ad blocker was detected by their site that refused entry. I
       | find that kind of stuff more annoying than an occasional notice
       | that they'll let me extend a warranty.
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | The likely outcome of this is going to be cars that will shove
       | ads in your face, play repeatedly over the ad-fotainment system,
       | and will track every movement you make, every place you visit,
       | and require you to sign in with an account in order to drive it.
       | 
       | This will allow the car to be sold for thousands less,
       | effectively allowing you to trade your soul for a $1000 down
       | $150/mo lease of an otherwise bare bones car.
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | Corporations is a clever way of organising people in such a way
       | that all humanity in them is suppressed and whatever little evil
       | in them is empowered. Corporations do so by putting a mask on
       | employees that lets them act anonymously, on behalf of the
       | corporation, and creating the only objective metric - profit.
       | Anything that goes against this metric is ignored, and the few
       | ideas that grow this metric are empowered. No normal person would
       | dare to approach a Jeep customer face to face and try to poison
       | his car with ads: such a confrontation would be unbearable to
       | anyone with a somewhat functioning moral compass. However the
       | same person can do this easily when covered by the corporate
       | mask: not needing to confront the customer openly makes it much
       | more bearable. Corporations wouldn't be able to do this with a
       | bunch of saints - those would just sit idle and refuse to do this
       | evil shit even under the mask of anonymity, but so long as some
       | employees have a seed of evil in them and a bit of creativity,
       | corporations will make that seed grow.
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | What does the company's CEO drive? Does he get pop-up ads too?
        
       | blinded wrote:
       | That is so lame of them. Image having to watch an add before
       | being able to turn on heated seats.
        
       | globular-toast wrote:
       | When I scrolled down on this page a thing popped up asking me to
       | give my details to them. Nice.
        
       | inahga wrote:
       | I brutally ripped the cellular modem out of my Jeep and have not
       | had this problem since then.
       | 
       | See
       | https://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=20....
       | 
       | It has the drawback of breaking the GPS and compass. Also I
       | imagine any recalls that are fixed via over-the-air updates won't
       | apply. Hopefully that never happens, because I don't want to have
       | to try to explain to the dealer that I need them to apply the
       | update locally.
        
       | Molitor5901 wrote:
       | https://archive.is/WZGea
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-03-05 23:01 UTC)