[HN Gopher] Jeep owners fed up with in-car pop-up ads
___________________________________________________________________
Jeep owners fed up with in-car pop-up ads
Author : spudlyo
Score : 146 points
Date : 2025-03-05 21:09 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kbb.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kbb.com)
| ypeterholmes wrote:
| Advertising has gotten out of control. What's bizarre to me is
| that the people violating us are literally the ones who want
| something from us. Is there no way to boycott anyone advertising
| in our car? AND the car itself of course.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I didn't buy a Jeep because of stuff like this. The problem is
| that when I looked at the competitors, for instance the Bronco,
| they had their own little UI annoyances too. There wasn't
| anything on the market that didn't annoy or insult me in one
| way or another, so I ended up just buying a 25 year old Ranger.
| The irony is that 25 years ago, I had a Ranger like the one I
| own now, and it took me a series of seven modern vehicles, each
| increasingly bad, to teach me the value of a simple,
| unopinionated truck that just gets me to point B.
| bluGill wrote:
| If you can keep it on the road. I have a 25 year old car too.
| I spend more on maintenance than fuel (I only drove it 2000
| miles last year) Parts are getting hard to find. There is
| rust that would be expensive to fix.
| karaterobot wrote:
| Runs like a champ, but yeah it has cost some money to keep
| it that way. Nevertheless, FFR!
| userbinator wrote:
| I have one that's a little over twice that age. Parts
| availability, especially in the aftermarket, is still very
| high for domestic classics, especially those based on the
| stereotypical design, and I doubt that will change much in
| the near future.
| iAMkenough wrote:
| > Is there no way to boycott anyone advertising in our car? AND
| the car itself of course.
|
| The obvious boycott would be to sell the car and never buy a
| Jeep again. Until the next car you buy is also updated to
| include ads and quietly sell tracking data they've collected
| about your family, so then you sell that car and never buy from
| that manufacturer again either.
|
| Then before you know it, you end up buying an American-made
| luxury sedan to take the kids to soccer because you've
| convinced yourself that buying a premium ad-free car with the
| optional monthly subscription for the seat warmers is worth the
| investment and all the "affordable" options are either ad-
| supported American-built cars or artificially overpriced due to
| trade wars.
|
| They'll backtrack if they lose enough money.
| bluGill wrote:
| The important part is getting others to do so as well. You
| alone don't matter.
|
| The big players here are KBB, edmunds, consumer reports, and
| all the car magazines. If they scream manufactures will
| listen.
| timewizard wrote:
| > The obvious boycott would be to sell the car
|
| The overwhelming majority of people finance their vehicles.
| It's not even their car to sell.
| autoexec wrote:
| Can they take the car back? I'd want to return it. No one should
| reasonably be expected to ask if their car is going to shove ads
| in their face before buying. Was this something they saw during
| test drives?
|
| Increasingly, it looks like my next new car is going to have to
| be an old car.
| bdangubic wrote:
| for sure they signed their life away on some form they did not
| read when buying the car :)
| bluGill wrote:
| Just because it is on a form doesn't mean it is legal.
| Contracts are only legal if the words themselves are legal in
| the country.
| mikestew wrote:
| _Was this something they saw during test drives?_
|
| No product manager with a lick of sense would allow that. No,
| if online reports are to be trusted, it waits a while before
| the ads start showing up.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| you will live to see man made enshitification beyond your
| comprehension
| pacificmint wrote:
| You know how there is the cliche that old people are always
| ranting how everything was better in their day?
|
| Personally, I'm not quite there yet, but the older I get, the
| more I see their point...
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| the cliche is that it's a cliche
| tanseydavid wrote:
| Shifting Baseline Syndrome
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline
| stragies wrote:
| Or worse, some hacker/government locks your car doors, and
| turns your car into a remote-controlled 2-ton 140mph ground-to-
| ground projectile, while you're driving your kids to school.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| i unironically believe this has been used to assassinate
| people in the united states
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I believe that was the case with Anne Heche. She was
| producing a documentary on child trafficking and was going
| to name names. Her car drove her into a building. The ring
| videos and audio can not be unseen or unheard. She was
| trying hard to overpower the car with the brakes which were
| not yet drive-by-wire. The media immediately said drugs and
| alcohol were involved yet the toxicology report showed her
| 100% clean.
| stragies wrote:
| Maybe there'll be some trickery they can do in future
| versions with the AC to lower air pressure in the cabin,
| so the occupant(s) pass out, and can't attempt to mess
| with the cars "mission" anymore.
| mikestew wrote:
| Speaking of ads, my Pi-hole about caught on fire when that page
| loaded, and there's _still_ ads that it missed. The irony, given
| the article topic, is not lost on me.
| spudlyo wrote:
| Right!? There is also a popup ad on that very site.
|
| Here is a tip that I just recently learned that has improved my
| browsing experience with uBlock Origin. In the settings menu
| under "Filter Lists" there sections under the heading of
| "Cookie notices" and "Annoyances" that are not enabled by
| default. Blocking cookie popups has been wonderful, and I can
| only imagine what kind of annoyances are now being blocked for
| me.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| Does blocking the cookie popup allow all cookies? Seems like
| that would be worse in my opinion.
| spudlyo wrote:
| Not entirely sure. I now flush all non-allowlisted cookies
| on browser exit after moving to LibreWolf, so I'm less
| concerned than I was about that sort of thing.
| worble wrote:
| Under GDPR, you must opt-in. So blocking the popup is the
| same as no consent, if you're in the EU.
|
| I don't trust random sites on the internet to follow the
| law anyway, so nuking your cookies and localstorage when
| you close the browser or navigate away is what you should
| be doing if you're concerned about this sort of thing.
| Obviously sites I need to stay logged into get on the
| allowlist.
| MaxikCZ wrote:
| They need an explicit consent for those cookies, that's why
| they are asking in the first place. You can not give
| consent if you never click the Allow button.
|
| TLDR: Blocking cookie popup = not allowing cookies.
| harryquach wrote:
| I hate cookie popups, this will improve my browsing
| experience a ton, thanks for sharing!
| bell-cot wrote:
| With javascript turned off, I only see one (innocuous and
| obviously broken) ad.
| spudlyo wrote:
| You wouldn't run an ad blocker on your car...
|
| > But the problem could presage a more significant issue for
| future drivers. Last year, Ford filed a patent for an in-car
| advertising system that would use the car's speakers and display
| screen to serve ads to drivers and passengers. That system would
| also use the car's GPS tracker to serve ads relevant to the
| driver's route.
|
| This is some Black Mirror type dystopian vision of the future for
| me. Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV" I imagine in the
| future it might be impossible to buy a dumb car that doesn't have
| these kinds of features built into the head unit.
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| > _Just like nowadays you can 't buy a "dumb TV" _
|
| You can, if you buy used. I know it's weird to buy a used TV,
| but they cost pennies on the dollar and you can get some really
| nice models without today's ubiquitous annoyances.
|
| Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new
| cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the
| road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint.
| Retric wrote:
| Or just modify them. People used to replace their stereo, I
| suspect there would be a real market for add free
| infotainment systems.
| smackeyacky wrote:
| This is already difficult on 20 year old vehicles, in the
| future it might be impossible.
|
| The combination of weird speaker ohm specs, CAN Bus
| controlled factory amplifiers, integrated vehicle
| information systems (where the display is across several
| screens) in modern cars and the abandonment of the DIN
| stereo size make doing aftermarket installs harder and
| harder.
|
| The Chinese are producing some astounding things - you can
| buy a drop-in centre console replacement for an older
| Chrysler 300C that looks factory but has a big touch
| screen, Carplay/Android Auto and a dongle that interfaces
| with the CAN bus based amplifier and steering wheel
| buttons. I suspect for really popular cars this will be an
| option, but it can't be done for every car released.
| bombcar wrote:
| This is already a huge issue - I actually had to pay
| attention to CarPlay integration because most cars the
| infotainment system is tied to the car itself (and not
| just the steering wheel controls), and you need it. Many
| of the car's settings can't be changed anywhere but on
| the "radio".
| jmward01 wrote:
| It would be great to be able to buy a car and then delete
| the OS and install something I trusted on it but I can't
| imagine they will ever allow that. (If this is a real thing
| and I don't know about it please post here!) The printer
| world is the model I bet the car companies are all looking
| at WRT this approach. Litigate/claim DRM/make it hard or
| impossible for aftermarket/etc etc. Basically, these
| companies are the adversary as opposed to a partner in your
| driving experience.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| Not only will "they" fight you but even here on a place
| literally called Hacker News will people screech about
| how you shouldn't be able to run your own software on
| your own car because of safety implications or whatever
| photonthug wrote:
| > or just modify them
|
| Sorry but this is just not an appropriate level of outrage
| and reads like corporate apologism. If you go to the doctor
| for a broken arm, you don't expect to get an inner ear
| implant whispering "wouldn't you like a Coca Cola?" as part
| of the fix. Sure maybe another doctor will take it out, but
| it's abusive and unnecessary, and fixing the abuse after
| the fact is just extra cost for the customer.
|
| In any sane world, the market would recognize that thirsty
| bullshit like this is a signal that the perpetrators are
| completely out of ideas in their field and have started
| grasping at tiny amounts of cash they can get by selling
| their customers instead of their products, rather than
| being in it for the long term. In other words.. all in on
| looting the brand value, taking the money, and exiting
| ASAP.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| >Same goes for cars. If enough people refrain from buying new
| cars, and put in the effort to keep their older cars on the
| road, maybe manufacturers will take the hint.
|
| The opposite seems to be what happens. The manufacturers
| cater even harder to premium consumers who aren't in it for
| the long haul so you get heated subscription seats and stupid
| doodads that nobody needs but seem impressive on the test
| drive.
| bluGill wrote:
| They can only pull that off because used car buyers put up
| with it. People who buy used cars have the option of buying
| a non-luxury new car, but they have consistently chosen the
| luxury versions used. (all cars have a lot of luxury
| features, but the least luxury models exist and don't sell
| well)
| bluGill wrote:
| For how long? Used TVs don't last forever.
|
| I just bought a new car (well 3 years old) because the
| transmission was going on the old one and at 240k miles the
| cost to fix it was more than the car was worth. Even if I had
| fixed it, the body was already showing signs of rust. (the
| new one is also a plug in hybrid which I believe over 10
| years will save the difference between fixing the old one and
| this one - but only time will tell)
| asimovfan wrote:
| I, Robot the movie was like that
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Speed will be next; subscription based.
|
| 150$ a month to enable acceleration greater than 50mph.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| > Just like nowadays you can't buy a "dumb TV"
|
| you can buy a computer monitor and connect it to apple tv. sure
| it won't be as big but it can't phone home.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Some monitor brands have started pushing wifi connections.
| Samsung has "smart" monitors now, other manufacturers
| probably do too
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| > you can't buy a "dumb TV"
|
| They are sold as monitors and digital signage displays and cost
| a lot more than a consumer TV.
| hammock wrote:
| Even on aliexpress?
| rikafurude21 wrote:
| Every TV is essentially a dumb TV until you connect it to the
| internet. I bought a cheap TV and only use the remote to turn
| it on and have it connected via HDMI.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Unless it complains at you to connect it to wifi when you
| turn it on.
| rikafurude21 wrote:
| I've seen higher end Samsung TVs do this, or probably
| most Android TVs I'd assume.
| bombcar wrote:
| Vizio, so far, is quite nice in this regard, you power it
| on, it asks you to accept an agreement, you say no, and
| it says, welp, I guess I'm a dumb TV now.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| I intended on using mine that way, but honestly the built
| in Netflix and USB stick player are decent enough. As long
| as your receiver does the eARC thing it should all be fine.
| rikafurude21 wrote:
| It's always the convienent features that kill privacy.
| Sadly you have to put in more effort if you care about
| privacy at all
| seanw444 wrote:
| Convenience and privacy are typically mutually exclusive.
| elaus wrote:
| Not sure if they are a reality or just a MBA's wet dream
| yet: TVs with integrated eSIM to not even require WIFI for
| transmitting usage data and ads.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| The largest "monitor" I can see on Newegg right now is 48"
| diagonal:
|
| https://www.newegg.ca/lg-48gq900-b-48-uhd-120-hz-refresh-
| rat...
|
| And that's an outlier-- most are 27-36", with 32" being the
| overwhelming sweet spot.
|
| In contrast, my TV is 77" diagonal, and most people would
| consider 55" to be about the minimum size for a new TV at
| this point, outside of special applications such as the
| bedroom/kitchen/etc. I don't know where I'd begin to go about
| purchasing a 77" 4K display from a digital signage vendor.
| p_ing wrote:
| https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/commercial-
| tvs/
|
| Samsung makes them larger than 77".
| coderenegade wrote:
| I've used projectors for the past 15-odd years. Modern ones
| are very, very good in that they're portable, can run on
| batteries, don't need to be plugged directly into your
| laptop etc. The trade-off is that we don't really watch
| anything until the evening. The only ads we see are the
| ones from streaming services.
| setsewerd wrote:
| Yeah, my setup the last couple years has been a 4k
| projector + blackout curtains + casting movies via
| Airplay from my laptop. The screen ends up being over 90"
| horizontally (haven't measured diagonally). Zero ads, and
| the curtains make it usable even with sun hitting the
| window.
| Marsymars wrote:
| I also have a projector, but from what I've seen, newer
| ones include Google TV or whatever, so in practice aren't
| especially different from TVs.
| webworker wrote:
| I have a hard time understanding why anyone would buy a
| physical tv that big. I decided to get a projector. Huge
| surface area. Goes away/out of my sight for the 98% of the
| time I'm not using/watching it.
| Telemakhos wrote:
| My gf and I don't have a television, but we watch Ghibli
| movies on my 13" laptop on a stool parked in front of my
| couch. In CRT's heydey, you'd have to be pretty rich to get
| more than a 24" screen, and that was just fine back then.
| The brain focuses attention on the story and blocks out
| everything else, the same way that you don't notice the
| rest of the theater during an opera or play (at least one
| that's engrossing).
|
| So, if the trade-off is size vs advertising, I'd prefer to
| have a small, ad-free monitor instead of a large ad-box.
| carom wrote:
| I have a Sceptre from Walmart. No internet connection. I run
| all services from an Apple TV. You can definitely buy a dumb
| TV.
| Marsymars wrote:
| Last I checked, availability on those dumb Sceptres was
| trending to zero.
| outer_web wrote:
| Aren't the viewing angles on monitors way smaller?
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| > you can't buy a "dumb TV"
|
| Which is regrettable, but it's easy enough to just keep it
| offline. Presumably there's no such opt-out for drivers of
| these vehicles.
| karaterobot wrote:
| How long until new TVs tell you that you must be connected to
| the internet to use them? Doesn't seem insane at all. Seems
| like something that's probably being brought up at product
| meetings at, e.g., Samsung with increasing frequency.
| mb7733 wrote:
| I bought a TCL smart tv and I was forced to connect to a
| network & sign in to something before I could use an external
| HDMI input. If there's a workaround I gave up finding it.
| ericmay wrote:
| Car-only infrastructure which is pervasive in America is a
| liability to the country and the economy.
|
| I can just not buy a TV and my life is great. Probably better.
| I can't not buy a car except in a few select locations if I
| want to participate in the economy.
|
| That's both dangerous and fragile.
| kccqzy wrote:
| That has little to do with advertising though. When you
| drive, you still see billboards with advertising. When you
| take public transit, the buses and the trains can have ads
| inside and outside.
| ale42 wrote:
| Yes but you don't own the bus/train nor the road with the
| billboards. But supposedly, you do own the car. Do cars get
| cheaper by adding ads inside? Nope.
| gruez wrote:
| >Yes but you don't own the bus/train nor the road with
| the billboards. But supposedly, you do own the car
|
| As opposed to a TV that you own? You even paid for the
| cable subscription.
| exe34 wrote:
| I took the bus from the airport into Istanbul, and it had a
| horribly bright screen in front of every seat, with
| flashing adverts and constantly moving - after a flight, I
| was already feeling nauseous. I managed to cover it with a
| jacket and ignore the ones further away, but it was a very
| unpleasant experience.
| Marsymars wrote:
| I'd consider a socially positive action to render those
| screens inoperable.
| exe34 wrote:
| as a foreigner who didn't speak the local language, I
| didn't think vandalism was a good idea.
| Marsymars wrote:
| Yes, ideally they could be disabled by some enterprising
| local youths who are too young to face consequences.
| striking wrote:
| Yeah, but at least buses and trains are accountable to the
| voter in one way or another... and I can still wear
| headphones.
| gruez wrote:
| You can vote with your wallet and buy a car that doesn't
| have ads. The best you can do with ads on buses and
| trains is show up in your next city council meeting and
| raise a stink, only to be told that the transit agency
| signed a 10 year contract and can't pull out.
| ziddoap wrote:
| This assumes that no other manufacturer will put ads in
| their cars. Hopefully that's the case!
|
| I think the concern is that once/if a critical mass of
| manufacturers include in-car ads, the rest can follow
| (because people still need vehicles in most areas), and
| the consumer has no more choice.
| gruez wrote:
| Is there any reason to believe they won't have a higher
| ad-free tier instead? If they get $500 LTV from showing
| ads, why wouldn't they offer a $1000 ad-free
| subscription? Seems to work fine with streaming
| platforms, for instance.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _Is there any reason to believe they won 't have a
| higher ad-free tier instead?_
|
| I mean, this is still awful, right? Subscriptions for the
| car I spent tens of thousands of dollars on?
|
| > _Seems to work fine with streaming platforms, for
| instance._
|
| It's awful here, too, in my opinion. But tolerable
| because I didn't spend multiple years paying to own the
| product.
| davidcbc wrote:
| > You can vote with your wallet and buy a car that
| doesn't have ads.
|
| For now.
|
| I've yet to see an advertisement on a bus or train that
| wasn't easily ignorable. It's a lot harder to ignore
| things when you're driving
| alistairSH wrote:
| Did the owners know they would be served ads when they
| purchased the car? That's not clear to me.
| ziddoap wrote:
| This sort of misses the point, and treats all advertisement
| as equally annoying.
|
| Advertisements _inside my car_ , especially if the begin to
| use my speakers, is infinitely more annoying than a
| billboard (which, yes, is also annoying).
|
| Advertisements on trains/etc. are more annoying than
| billboards, but less annoying than advertisements in
| _something I am supposed to own_.
| ben_w wrote:
| > When you drive, you still see billboards with
| advertising.
|
| Far more so in the US[0] than in any of the parts of Europe
| I've lived in or visited[1].
|
| [0] Around much of CA, RI, MA, passing through NV and CT,
| and the cities of NYC, Salt Lake City and Newark in NY, UT
| and NJ.
|
| [1] Spain, France, UK, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands,
| Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, Italy, Austria, Poland,
| Hungry, Finland, Greece, Cyprus.
| cafard wrote:
| Some states sharply restrict roadside advertising--Maryland
| does, Pennsylvania doesn't.
|
| The bus advertising business seemed to have taken a beating
| a few years back. It is true that in Washington the bus
| shelters have ads, often electronic.
| spudlyo wrote:
| Whenever AR glasses with ad-blockers are available, I will
| be an early adopter.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > When you drive, you still see billboards with
| advertising. When you take public transit, the buses and
| the trains can have ads inside and outside.
|
| I regularly complain about both of those things to all of
| the relevant political and transit authorities.
| spicybright wrote:
| People aren't going to stop using cars because of ads,
| they're just going to put up with almost anything because
| they have to in order to survive.
|
| The car industry is probably one of the most stable economic
| pillars the US has.
| gruez wrote:
| >The car industry is probably one of the most stable
| economic pillars the US has.
|
| You mean the industry that famously went bankrupt in 2008
| and had to be bailed out? Looking at the list of
| sectors[1], there are plenty of sectors that I think are
| more stable: Consumer staples, utilities, and healthcare.
|
| [1] https://www.sectorspdrs.com/sectortracker
| ics wrote:
| The fact that it was bailed out says something about its
| place in American society. Stable might not be the best
| description but it does seem to be one thing which is
| taken for granted.
| tmpz22 wrote:
| What about Teslas P/E ratio, not to mention Musks dual
| responsibility as CEO and head of DOGE?
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| Car industry is rock solid, like the housing market.
| rootsudo wrote:
| "The car industry is probably one of the most stable
| economic pillars the US has."
|
| I disagree, https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/debt-
| statistics/
|
| "The average car payment for new vehicles was $737 per
| month in the third quarter of 2024, up 0.7% from Q3 2023
|
| Auto loan delinquency rates are up compared to last year.
| 4.6% of outstanding auto debt was at least 90 days late in
| Q3 2024, according to the New York Fed, up 17.4% from Q3
| 2023. Meanwhile, the percentage of auto loans that fell to
| 30 days past due was 8.1% in the third quarter of this
| year, up 9.9% from 7.4% in the third quarter of last year."
|
| I'm shocked that a somewhat predeatory lending company has
| great statistics about this - the whole article is
| interesting.
|
| As for manufacturing, I also disagree -- due to current
| affairs w/ Trump and tariffs :
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/trump-...
|
| Oh yeah, something something they all took bailouts in 2008
| and Ford was the only one that could pay the loans back
| while GM killed off several brands e.g. Oldsmobile and
| Pontiac.
| XorNot wrote:
| Or you know...we could just not put ads in cars.
|
| People get so weird about easily solvable problems, like the
| developer who gets tasked to make the button red and instead
| writes an entire theme engine abstraction even though there's
| exactly one user.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _People get so weird about easily solvable problems_
|
| Please tell me how _I_ , someone who doesn't manufacture
| cars, can easily solve the problem of _manufacturers_
| choosing to put advertisements in cars?
| SJC_Hacker wrote:
| I think its more than just a "few selection locations". Its
| the majority of major metropolitan areas.
|
| Especially with Uber, Doordash, Instacart, etc. Having a car
| is almost a liability in many instances.
|
| Now I agree this gets to be a dodgy proposition if you have
| kids, and the further out you are from major pop centers.
| Suburbs maybe, rural areas are definitely out.
|
| I did for many years and definitely contributed to the
| economy
| psunavy03 wrote:
| At some point I really don't get how people can't just accept
| that historically, the US is a car-centric suburban-centric
| culture, and that's just who we largely are. If you want to
| do things like improve the environment, you can either scream
| and stamp your feet about it or you can meet people where
| they are and devise solutions that work in a car-centric
| culture.
|
| It just is what it is, like Brits drinking tea, Scandinavians
| liking their saunas, or the French being obnoxious about
| Frenchness.
| malcolmgreaves wrote:
| You need to be a student of history, otherwise you'll be
| blinded by the present and make these kinds of very wrong
| conclusions.
|
| The US was the world leader in railroads. US cities had
| state of the rail based public transit systems. LA had the
| most extensive streetcar system in the world. Even St Louis
| used to be as accessible as NYC.
|
| People changed because corporations lied to the public and
| meticulously destroyed public transit in the US.
|
| People can change again.
| marssaxman wrote:
| That's a shallow, post-WWII vision of history. The US used
| to build great cities, then it bulldozed large parts of
| them to build the present highway-centric dystopia. If one
| radical change was possible then, so is another, now.
|
| The car-centric, suburban-centric culture cannot be
| sustained economically or ecologically, and will therefore
| come to an end. How do we want that to happen -
| intentionally and progressively, or catastrophically?
| ericmay wrote:
| I don't think your historical analysis is very correct.
| What you think of as car-centric suburban-centric culture
| didn't really arise until after World War II. It's really a
| relatively new thing, even considering how young the United
| States is.
|
| Obesity rates track historically with car-centric culture,
| should we just accept that is who we are, or can we work on
| cultural and policy changes that alleviate that problem?
|
| Other countries like the Netherlands went through the same
| car-centric design phase and realized it was too expensive
| and bad for the country so they reverted. We can and should
| keep cars, but our _reliance_ on them for our very
| existence is quite fragile and unnecessary.
|
| Why does the average American have to spend $300 -
| $800/month or more in direct costs (insurance, gasoline,
| tires, loan payments, etc.) plus indirect costs (taxes for
| infrastructure) in order to go to the grocery store to buy
| a tomato or take their children to a playground?
|
| > If you want to do things like improve the environment,
| you can either scream and stamp your feet about it or you
| can meet people where they are and devise solutions that
| work in a car-centric culture.
|
| Instead of "screaming and stamping my feet" - isn't that
| what Road Rage is? I prefer to just work with organizations
| and political leaders to devise and implement solutions
| that reduce our need for car-centric culture and improve
| our economic resilience. That means fewer surface parking
| lots which are economic outflows, more bike lanes, slower
| speed limits, and better roadway design that incorporates
| segmented bike lanes, bus lanes, and more.
| eszed wrote:
| Apart from the points made by sibling posters, markets
| reveal preferences. The eye-watering price of urban land
| suggests that many, many more people would prefer to live
| in cities than currently do.
|
| (Full disclosure: I am one of them. Reluctantly living in a
| suburb because kids; will move back to the City as soon as
| they get their thumb out and build enough housing to make
| it more affordable.)
| thesuitonym wrote:
| I know this wasn't your point, but Sceptre still makes dumb
| TVs. The real problem is finding anything to watch without ads.
| Hulu has already changed their terms of service to say you
| might still get some ads on the "ad free" tier.
| adamtaylor_13 wrote:
| As soon as that happens, I drop them. There's no reality in
| which I pay someone money to watch ads. Absolutely not.
|
| I suppose it will be a bigger deal for folks who really enjoy
| TV and don't want to miss it. But man... I can't help but
| think of how much better myself and my family will be if they
| push me over that edge.
|
| FAFO, Hulu, FAFO.
| Apofis wrote:
| This is absurd, they are attempting to turn your Car into a
| Cable TV set top box. Cable used to be ad free too! That's one
| of the biggest reasons everyone fled to Netflix.
| colechristensen wrote:
| In car infotainment advertising needs to be banned at the state
| level, likewise much of the telemetry they send home. State
| legislation is good for this kind of thing. Like you cannot
| sell a car with this feature in the state or display such
| advertising while on state roads, possibly even you cannot
| register a car in the state with this feature.
| seanw444 wrote:
| All it'd take really is one or two of the big states banning
| it, and they'd be financially incentivized to disable it for
| all markets. That's how it seems to have gone for other
| things in the past.
| ge96 wrote:
| I like driving sporty/sports cars and I'm not getting new
| stuff, so works out for me. I don't mind driving a 10+yr older
| car.
|
| I don't disagree it's an ahole move
|
| "why are we getting off at this exit? there is a sale
| nearby..."
| cafard wrote:
| And then when you stop at a gas station, the pump plays ads at
| you.
| Marsymars wrote:
| If all the gas stations around me started doing that, it
| would single-handedly get me to convert to an EV.
| adamtaylor_13 wrote:
| There's going to be a lucrative aftermarket industry around
| removing that shit.
|
| Dystopian doesn't even begin to describe this situation. These
| executives are out of their mind.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| The entire automotive industry is moving to cryptographically
| secured software and comms. Aftermarket garages are already
| struggling with the burden of getting access to manufacturer
| docs and equipment that's officially supported.
| npongratz wrote:
| > This is some Black Mirror type dystopian vision of the future
| for me.
|
| Indeed. I always assumed this was the impetus for FSD: these
| vehicles confine the most captive audience, so they will be a
| surveillance/advertising gold mine.
| tantalor wrote:
| The charitable interpretation would be to augment/optimize ads
| which would otherwise be less useful. The counterfactual is not
| "silence". It is your radio/podcast/spotify that already have
| ads.
|
| You are trading ads for relevant ads.
| etrautmann wrote:
| This is maybe the best way to get people to stop buying cars
| and look for alternative modes of transport!
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| Are there any kind souls on HN with the financial resources to
| patent these sorts of "features" before any of these other
| companies do, and thereby spare the rest of us from 20 years of
| ads and tracking?
| EGreg wrote:
| As I was reading this story, a pop-up advert appeared.
|
| They're everywhere, man! Isn't it time to have an alternative to
| capitalism? UBI and cooperative gift economies (science, open
| source etc.)
| the_third_wave wrote:
| No, it is not time to try to revive the desiccated corpse of
| socialism once again for the I-do-not-know-how-manyeth-time.
| Pick up some history books, real ones that is, not Howard Zinn
| and read where that path takes you. Redistribution does not
| work when there isn't anyone left to pluck which tends to be
| the outcome of that pipe dream.
|
| Capitalism, warts and all is still the best way to lift people
| out of poverty. You may not like the fact that some people have
| way more than others (and objectively speaking way more than
| they need) but the people who saw and see their income lift
| above the poverty line would not like to see it go down again
| once the next "people's party" gets to power.
| mfro wrote:
| Year of The Adult Depend Undergarment
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Previouslies:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43009682
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43163333
| spudlyo wrote:
| Huh, I thought for sure the article must have made the rounds
| here at some point, but I presumed the de-duper would catch it.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| lol, you think Jeep care?
|
| Backlash sure, but five years later they're probably put
| advertising in your steering wheel.
| drpossum wrote:
| I've found Jeep owners are their own brand of crazy. It's
| probably one of the few car cults that would endlessly put up
| with this kind of abuse because they just can't imagine NOT
| making their Jeep _the_ core part of their identity.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| It's a Heep thing. You wouldn't understand.
| NickC25 wrote:
| Absurd that cars are now seen as an advertising platform by car
| makers. A car's stereo or display system randomly blasting ads at
| you (the driver) should be treated for what it really is -
| intentionally distracting the driver when the vehicle is in
| operation. That shit should be illegal. It's dumb at best, and
| incredibly dangerous at worst.
| smackeyacky wrote:
| Well, AM and FM radio are plagued with ads, always were and
| always will be. As far as I can see this is just a replacement
| for the fact that nobody listens to radio in their car any
| more.
|
| There is an entire older generation that is used to ads being
| blasted in their cars. The visual assault is new though.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Is that the same? In my vehicles if an ad starts playing I
| can push a button and be listening to another station or I
| can listen to a CD or MP3. Does it work that way when ads pop
| up in these distracted-driver-tainment systems?
| npongratz wrote:
| The AM and FM radio ads cannot surveil you like the GPS- and
| cell-enabled (and forced) in-vehicle advertising systems do.
| tantalor wrote:
| Some people might prefer an ad which is relevant to their
| location over something extremely generic and less useful.
|
| Sharing location does not necessarily need to impact
| privacy.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Someone should try to press this as a lemon law issue
|
| > A vehicle is considered a lemon if it has at least one defect
| that substantially that impairs the use, safety, or market value
| and the car has not been repaired after a reasonable number of
| attempts.
| 6SixTy wrote:
| More like road safety. Ads are meant to be payed attention to,
| which is an anti feature when you are supposed to be focused on
| driving.
|
| Same thing really with infotainment and requiring them for
| basic car functionality. Most of them suck anyways and you
| cannot operate a touch screen without looking at it. Stop
| putting climate control behind that screen.
| throw94040 wrote:
| There are legal sanctions for refusing to update software in a
| car, and for blocking it from internet. There is no way out!
| reverendsteveii wrote:
| It used to be a compromise: a product was free and ad-supported,
| a one-time cost up-front or a subscription. Now these capitalists
| think they can have it coming, going and staying right here with
| a car that you buy, that has subscription services in it and
| still shows you ads. I won't ever buy a car that shows ads and if
| all the cars on the market show ads I will break mine so that it
| stops doing that.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Find out the addresses of Jeep Executives. Get a car with giant
| loudspeakers and outdoor projectors and display ads at their
| houses 24/7.
| spanktheuser wrote:
| Michael Moore did something very close to this in the mid-90s
| for his briefly-lived TV Nation. Parked a series of cars in
| front of the home of a car alarm company CEO and set them off.
| 0hijinks wrote:
| No, no, you see: that would be a violation of local noise
| ordinance and is inhumane. Of course, a constant drip-feed of
| their banners and jingles in your private life is their right
| as a corporation.
| ImJasonH wrote:
| > Get More From KBB.com / Simply choose the content you'd like to
| receive below and we'll send it straight to your inbox.
|
| The irony.
| jmward01 wrote:
| > "They attributed the persistent nature of the ad to a temporary
| software glitch that affected the opt-out functionality in
| certain cases..."
|
| I attribute the glitch to the fact that ads are being presented
| at all. Seriously. Why would anyone buy from these people? How
| can someone look at the electronics in a modern vehicle and not
| think that they are a huge negative and not a positive? I Would
| love it if those electronics were there for me but it has been
| clear for a long time now that they are there to take advantage
| of me. Every touch screen/gps screen/etc makes me think 'this
| vehicle tracks everything I do, sells it to my worst enemy and
| will advertise/nag me to make more money and not to help me out'
| vondur wrote:
| Ha, maybe they will reduce the price of the vehicles if the owner
| agrees to ads? Much like the Amazon Kindle with the ad supported
| versions.
| drpossum wrote:
| DO NOT GIVE THEM IDEAS
| gruez wrote:
| Honestly this would be an improvement over the status quo.
| You get a choice in the matter, and unlike it being sprung on
| you after you bought it, you presumably would know upfront.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| Stellantis does not have the financials to make this happen.
| gregw134 wrote:
| > Last year, Ford filed a patent for an in-car advertising system
| that would use the car's speakers and display screen to serve ads
| to drivers and passengers
|
| I've owned Ford stock for 10 years, I think I'll finally sell it
| today
| polski-g wrote:
| If you are unhappy with these, you should contact your state
| legislators to have this practice banned. Particularly if you are
| in California.
| notatoad wrote:
| will stuffing them full of ads finally be the thing that
| convinces people to give up the emotional attachment they have to
| their cars?
| jklinger410 wrote:
| Somewhat tangential: JEEP products that are not the traditional
| Wrangler and all of it's myriad variations are most likely the
| worst American vehicles ever made. I'm talking the Grand
| Cherokee, Wagoneer, Compass, etc.
|
| This crap is being tried on that vehicle because JEEP drivers are
| some of the least discerning car buyers on the market. A perfect
| test bed for the most toxic features American manufacturers can
| imagine.
|
| So it's a great sign that they are noticing and complaining. If
| this group can't handle it, hopefully they will consider it a
| failed experiment. For now.
| rpcope1 wrote:
| Jeep hasn't built anything worth a damn since Chrysler picked
| it up off of AMC in its dying breaths, and MOPAR has not ever
| built anything that wasn't a flaming pile of shit for many,
| many decades. It's a shame, you'll never see another useful
| great vehicle like an XJ, YJ or CJ-8, and if you try (like
| Mahindra did with the Roxor) and it looks too much like a
| "Jeep" you'd better bet Chrysler is going to shut that shit
| down quick.
|
| You should have said that people who buy Fiat Chrysler are
| basically blind and undiscerning because the whole company
| basically operates on generating total garbage with few
| exceptions (some Cummins powered trucks be among those).
| 6SixTy wrote:
| I'd probably never buy a Ram/Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep brand car if I
| can avoid it. There's a reason why Chrysler joined with Fiat,
| then Fiat-Chrysler turned into Stellantis. And none of them are
| a ringing endorsement.
| hu3 wrote:
| Reason #999 for preferring home office.
|
| Soon long commutes will mean even more exposure to ads.
|
| It was already the case with billboards anyway.
|
| Now billboards are being forced inside your car.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| If there's one thing that _might_ save us here, it 's that ads
| within the vehicle, delivered via the entertainment system
| unexpectedly, are a potential safety hazard.
| npongratz wrote:
| I can just hear the pitch to auto CEOs and "business
| development" execs:
|
| " _... now with full self-driving! Where your captive
| audience can 't use the safety excuse for avoiding your very
| important and lucrative propaganda!_"
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Activists sometimes hack the digital billboards. Just a matter
| of time till they find a way to play something loud and raunchy
| in _all the cars_ whilst taking away the UI controls using
| javascript.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Is there anything new since this story 22 days ago that seems to
| cover the exact same events?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43009682
| i1856511 wrote:
| I cannot read this article because of a pop-up ad on the website.
| gotoeleven wrote:
| Its this kind of stuff that made me a little disappointed when
| they figured out that that meteor was going to miss earth.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| This seems like something a car company would do if it were
| hurtling towards bankruptcy for the third time in a human
| lifetime.
|
| And lo, that's exactly what Jeep's parent company, Stellantis, is
| doing.
| motohagiography wrote:
| we are in a cultural nadir of car design. vindicating that I
| bought a jeep with stick, rolldown windows, no bluetooth, no
| infotainment, no electric locks.
|
| guess I'm about to become a vintage car collector.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| _guess I 'm about to become a vintage car collector._
|
| Same. My truck is already a classic. People ask if I really
| love that truck and then I explain the de-evolution that is
| taking place in _modern_ vehicles. When that truck fails and if
| I can 't find anything I will happily ride into town on my 1947
| tractor or a horse or my old side-by-side.
| ge96 wrote:
| I had a similar experience with a used Ford car I bought from
| CarMax trying to shove SiriusXM down my throat like please man.
| aCodeCrafter wrote:
| This makes me so glad I own 2003 Toyota Corolla
| osmsucks wrote:
| The distracting nature of ads is a problem here: on a computer or
| smartphone, it's merely an annoyance; behind the wheel of a
| massive and fast moving vehicle, it could lead to deaths.
|
| IMHO ads in a car infotainment system should be outlawed. Let me
| focus on the road, and if I need to stare at the infotainment
| screen, let it be just for the GPS navigation.
| rurp wrote:
| This is disgusting. It's already getting hard to find new cars
| that don't include a bunch of "features" that make the experience
| worse. Something as greedy and adversarial as turning a personal
| vehicle into an ad platform is a hard no from me; I will never
| purchase a car with this included.
|
| My one hope is that there are enough car manufacturers on the
| market for competition to stifle this. That doesn't work in many
| areas of tech because they are controlled by a monopoly or
| duopoly. Chrome is free to dump all over users because Google
| leveraged their other monopolies to drive out competition and
| gain a browser monopoly.
|
| This kind of anti-consumer behavior that tech pioneered has
| really lowered my opinion of the whole industry.
| GuestFAUniverse wrote:
| Bill Hicks "seeds" didn't seem to have bloomed yet.
|
| So here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0
| pimlottc wrote:
| Alternate link that's not blocked in the US:
|
| https://youtu.be/9h9wStdPkQY?si=atHZI0pewp9ThV_Y
| SJC_Hacker wrote:
| Many industries have run out of ideas for new products/features.
| The only card they have left is more and more control of the
| lives. At least until AGI is reached when we're not needed and
| can be disposed of.
| rpcope1 wrote:
| This among many other problems with "Jeeps" feel so profane given
| the marque's heritage. I guess there's good reasons you'll
| probably see a significant number of XJs, TJs, YJs, CJs and ZJs
| probably still rolling down the road (with basically all of the
| sheet metal replaced) long, long after the current crop of
| garbage has been crushed.
|
| That all said, I would gladly fork over whatever money someone
| wanted just for a new XJ, just the way they were in 04 or 98, or
| a similar time machine GMT400 or GMT800 truck from GM.
| jsight wrote:
| My ad blocker was detected by their site that refused entry. I
| find that kind of stuff more annoying than an occasional notice
| that they'll let me extend a warranty.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| The likely outcome of this is going to be cars that will shove
| ads in your face, play repeatedly over the ad-fotainment system,
| and will track every movement you make, every place you visit,
| and require you to sign in with an account in order to drive it.
|
| This will allow the car to be sold for thousands less,
| effectively allowing you to trade your soul for a $1000 down
| $150/mo lease of an otherwise bare bones car.
| akomtu wrote:
| Corporations is a clever way of organising people in such a way
| that all humanity in them is suppressed and whatever little evil
| in them is empowered. Corporations do so by putting a mask on
| employees that lets them act anonymously, on behalf of the
| corporation, and creating the only objective metric - profit.
| Anything that goes against this metric is ignored, and the few
| ideas that grow this metric are empowered. No normal person would
| dare to approach a Jeep customer face to face and try to poison
| his car with ads: such a confrontation would be unbearable to
| anyone with a somewhat functioning moral compass. However the
| same person can do this easily when covered by the corporate
| mask: not needing to confront the customer openly makes it much
| more bearable. Corporations wouldn't be able to do this with a
| bunch of saints - those would just sit idle and refuse to do this
| evil shit even under the mask of anonymity, but so long as some
| employees have a seed of evil in them and a bit of creativity,
| corporations will make that seed grow.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| What does the company's CEO drive? Does he get pop-up ads too?
| blinded wrote:
| That is so lame of them. Image having to watch an add before
| being able to turn on heated seats.
| globular-toast wrote:
| When I scrolled down on this page a thing popped up asking me to
| give my details to them. Nice.
| inahga wrote:
| I brutally ripped the cellular modem out of my Jeep and have not
| had this problem since then.
|
| See
| https://sandsprite.com/blogs/index.php?uid=7&pid=462&year=20....
|
| It has the drawback of breaking the GPS and compass. Also I
| imagine any recalls that are fixed via over-the-air updates won't
| apply. Hopefully that never happens, because I don't want to have
| to try to explain to the dealer that I need them to apply the
| update locally.
| Molitor5901 wrote:
| https://archive.is/WZGea
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