[HN Gopher] NIH.gov DNS servers down, making PubMed, BLAST, etc....
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       NIH.gov DNS servers down, making PubMed, BLAST, etc. unreachable
       [fixed]
        
       Author : raphman
       Score  : 458 points
       Date   : 2025-03-02 10:50 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nslookup.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nslookup.io)
        
       | raphman wrote:
       | It seems someone shut down all NIH DNS servers. Right now the NIH
       | website, PubMed and BLAST are up, but not resolvable.
       | 
       | Cloudflare's 1.0.0.1 DNS resolver seems to still have cached the
       | records. Google and most others I tried did not. This probably
       | explains why some people on social media could access the sites
       | while others couldn't.
       | 
       | Workaround via /etc/hosts :                 156.40.212.210
       | nih.gov       96.17.96.9     www.nih.gov       34.107.134.59
       | pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov       130.14.250.10
       | ftp.wip.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov       130.14.250.10
       | ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov       130.14.29.110  blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
       | 
       | EDIT:
       | 
       | While ns.nih.gov, ns2.nih.gov, and ns3.nih.gov do not respond,
       | the nameserver at lhcns1.nlm.nih.gov (130.14.55.72) does.
       | 
       | Also see https://tldr.nettime.org/@ww/114089972404202687
        
         | anotherpaul wrote:
         | Thank you for writing this down. Might become relevant if they
         | don't solve that before Monday.
         | 
         | One can only hope this is not intentional.
        
         | imhoguy wrote:
         | Cool, thanks! While the chaos monkey is at work, the true
         | ARPANET spirit is still alive!
        
         | the_real_cher wrote:
         | Nice work!
        
         | stwrzn wrote:
         | They were not shut down.
         | 
         | Confirm yourself using:                 dig +tcp @$(dig +short
         | ns.nih.gov @a.ns.gov) www.nih.gov
        
           | raphman wrote:
           | Yes. As noted elsewhere in this thread, they still respond to
           | TCP requests. I did not know this at the time of writing.
        
       | nektro wrote:
       | well this is.. uh.. not good
        
       | jjallen wrote:
       | FYI it has been like this for at least sixteen hours as last
       | night I was trying to read something there too and it wouldn't
       | work. I hope there's backups somewhere. I definitely wouldn't
       | feel bad about using non sanctioned sources at this point.
        
       | letthegamesbegn wrote:
       | The whole country is getting much more unreliable. Feels
       | especially bad when I'm reading this:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail
        
       | anonzzzies wrote:
       | I'm not fromm the US, but these servers are not mirrored, at
       | least to have the information? Or is that not allowed?
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | Trust in the US is failing day after day.
        
         | fhd2 wrote:
         | As someone in Europe, I'm honestly starting to wonder if the
         | companies whose tech I oversee aren't better off eliminating
         | reliance on US tech companies. Hard to tell what they'll do,
         | being strong armed by Musk and Trump, or even just trying to
         | win their favour.
         | 
         | With server hardware, I can't think of real alternatives, at
         | least x86. But then again, I guess they'll just continue to
         | work once bought :P
         | 
         | Cloud hosting and PaaS: We have some major, reliable hosters
         | (Hetzner, OVH etc), but it's a bit lower level than AWS or
         | Heroku. This part I'm pondering the most, since I mostly want
         | to use stuff you can easily find freelancers to work on. With
         | anything closer to self hosting, that's a bit tricky.
         | 
         | Stuff like Google Workspace, Notion etc is non-trivial but
         | possible to replace with stuff like Fastmail and the Atlassian
         | suite. Not an "as good" replacement, but a workable one.
         | 
         | I still feel a bit paranoid even thinking about this, and I'll
         | ponder it some more before I act. But I can't help but wonder
         | how many European CTOs are in the same boat after the oval
         | office meeting with Zelenski. Kinda brought it home to me that
         | the US is a very different country now, and using anything made
         | there is no longer the no brainer it used to be. If the actual
         | government can't resist their commands, private companies most
         | definitely can't. And with a trade war looming, it'd be easy to
         | just take competitors that rely on AWS et al off the market
         | quickly, spy on competitors in Google Workplace, and stuff like
         | that.
        
           | xena wrote:
           | Look into Scaleway!
        
           | asmor wrote:
           | We got a few OpenStack-based clouds.
           | 
           | https://www.open-telekom-cloud.com/en
           | 
           | https://www.stackit.de/en/
        
             | fhd2 wrote:
             | I'd love to go with Hetzner (reliable for decades, well
             | known etc), which has almost everything I need in their
             | cloud offering, except an AWS RDS equivalent. OpenStack is
             | probably worth a look!
             | 
             | Sounds naive I guess, but my tech choices are pretty
             | heavily biased towards "can I quickly find someone
             | affordable to work on it?". Makes the market leader the
             | obvious choice, quite often. And that's currently usually a
             | US company.
        
               | TheAlchemist wrote:
               | Hetzner is great. I've used their services for some time
               | and always had a great experience.
        
           | Earw0rm wrote:
           | Is it possible to fully self-host the Atlassian suite with no
           | external connectivity nowadays?
        
             | fhd2 wrote:
             | No, but it's an Australian company.
        
           | benrutter wrote:
           | It's definitely a thought I've had too. In particular, there
           | are some tech stacks I know of dealing with critical energy
           | infrastructure which are tied to US cloud companies, I think
           | those represent a huge risk, and I wouldn't be suprised to
           | see a few of them start shifting soon.
        
         | softwaredoug wrote:
         | Almost everything has been infected by a zero-sum mindset in
         | the US. Some other group of country wins means I must be
         | losing, etc.
         | 
         | The administration doesn't see that the entire world order is
         | built on many positive sum relationships and coalitions that
         | the US has asymmetrically benefited from. And the same goes for
         | social order. Wealthy people suddenly see themselves as
         | victims(?) of their employees, and investors blame entitled
         | tech employees for companies problems. When the reality is that
         | employee and management - and social classes - benefit
         | economically by supporting each other.
        
           | jauntywundrkind wrote:
           | _Non-zero: the Logic of Human Destiny_ was a very influential
           | book for me growing up, talking about how society 's very
           | premise is non-zero sum thinking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
           | ki/Nonzero:_The_Logic_of_Human_De...
           | 
           | Thanks for this idea suggestion, this spin. Its a framing
           | that, now that I see it, maps well & explain so much. The
           | limited world view is collapsing our world, in horrible ways.
           | Mankind became better than the animals because we grew to
           | encompass more than short transactional views of ourselves,
           | and it's so heartbreaking watching vicious dark side anger
           | unmake the core of spirit that propelled us so far.
        
         | buyucu wrote:
         | If it makes you feel any better, that trust was very low to
         | begin with.
        
       | gilleain wrote:
       | For quick reference, BLAST refers to the 'Basic Local Alignment
       | Search Tool' that's a commonly used part of the bioinformatics
       | toolkit. You 'BLAST' sequences by sending a query sequence of
       | interest against a database of other sequences to find similarity
       | hits.
        
         | bow_ wrote:
         | I have been out of the field for some time, so I am not sure
         | how much BLAST is used these days.
         | 
         | Therer was a time when BLAST-ing a DNA and protein sequence you
         | have is like doing a Google search on it: it simply tells you
         | where the sequence might come from. This is useful especially
         | when your research is to figure out what that specific sequence
         | is doing. It won't give you the answer immediately (otherwise
         | why bother doing the research at all), but it certainly gives
         | context: sequence similarity often hints at similar / related
         | functions.
         | 
         | As an analogy: imagine if StackOverflow is suddenly down and
         | you don't know *if* it's going to be up again.
        
           | dharmab wrote:
           | My sibling is a molecular biologist working in the industry
           | and they do use BLAST data. She's been telling her company
           | for months they need to secure access with an alternative
           | source or offline backup, hopefully their software team
           | started it in time.
        
             | wisidisi wrote:
             | Everyone can set-up their own blast database. Usually if
             | you are specialized on a certain species you have your own
             | DB cached in memory somewhere locally for efficiency. Also
             | there are alternatives. NCBI blast is just one of many.
             | Also all the sequences are globally kept and in sync in
             | different regions of the world, so if one Datacenter goes
             | down you still have the option to use the exact same data
             | from Europe or Japan and so on.
        
               | dharmab wrote:
               | Yup, her company's software was set up to only use NCBI
               | and she's been warning that that was a risk :)
        
           | arthur2e5 wrote:
           | Not a professional, but still use it like that. They also
           | have a new smartblast thing, which works much faster (really,
           | really like Google!) but only on highly similar proteins.
        
           | gilleain wrote:
           | Fair, and to be totally clear, even when I was in the field
           | (an age ago), sequence stuff was never really my thing.
           | However, sequence comparison is a fairly fundamental tool.
           | 
           | Of course, yes you can run these things locally, other
           | providers (such as EBI Europe and Japan) have them, etc. It's
           | still a bad sign on the pile of other bad signs, IMO.
        
       | qgin wrote:
       | At some point we have to consider the possibility that these
       | aren't just cuts to the budget, but an intentional plan to visit
       | each government department and giving it a stab wound to let it
       | bleed out and die over the course of the next year or two.
        
         | llamaimperative wrote:
         | IMO we don't need to attribute malice to it, which will drag
         | everyone into a debate about what's going on inside the clearly
         | broken minds of a few rich men.
         | 
         | The sheer incompetence of it all is disqualifying by itself.
         | 
         | In my experiences arguing with MAGA, the incompetence argument
         | lands a lot more convincingly than the evil argument.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | Given the sheer amount of incompetence malice becomes a lot
           | more probable
        
             | llamaimperative wrote:
             | I'm not saying what's true, I'm saying what is _useful to
             | argue_.
             | 
             | The goal is to convince other people, not to rah-rah the
             | already-believers.
             | 
             | Trivially: these websites go back up in a few days, is that
             | more convincingly malice or just "these people don't know
             | how to operate a government?"
        
               | smallmancontrov wrote:
               | Democratic turnout was a problem in the 2024 election.
               | Rah-rah is important, like it or not.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | And do you have evidence to suggest more people would've
               | been activated by more "he's a fascist" messaging?
        
               | smallmancontrov wrote:
               | You open with "IMO" but want evidence from me? Lol.
               | 
               | There were many dems who remembered Trump as the funny
               | orange man, didn't really care to turn out against him,
               | and fell for the "both sides bad" messaging that was
               | absolutely rampant on the left (esp with regard to Kamala
               | and Palestine). So no, I don't think the most important
               | rally-the-base rhetoric was to ratchet up "Trump is
               | Fascist" so much as suppress "Both Sides Bad" while we
               | had an election to win.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Both sides were bad. Biden and Kamala were terrible
               | candidates for the Democrats to run, and their campaign
               | positioning lacked a unifying aspirational message.
               | 
               | What was Kamala's 2024 campaign slogan?
        
               | someothherguyy wrote:
               | We're not going back?
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Exactly.
        
               | datavirtue wrote:
               | Which was a horrendously stupid tag line. All people saw
               | was "prices not going back." Everyone in America
               | remembers simpler, better times. 1990s race relations
               | alone were far better than they are now.
               | 
               | I saw that slogan and cringed immediately.
        
               | datavirtue wrote:
               | Sorry downvoters, I'm no MAGA cultist, it's just the
               | worst slogan ever.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | "IMO" means "in my opinion." You made a statement as a
               | fact, which is why I asked for evidence. Lol.
               | 
               | Agreed the "both sides bad" messaging was a huge factor
               | here. But that's exactly why we should talk about these
               | fuckups as questions of competence. They are unambiguous
               | evidence of a difference in both sides' ability to
               | actually operate a government!
        
               | croes wrote:
               | Then incompetence as as reason isn't useful.
               | 
               | If it's malice then it's an attack. You have react
               | differently to an attack than to incompetence.
               | 
               | The EU made the same mistake with Trump's appeasement to
               | Putin. They hoped it's some kind of clever negotiation
               | tactic but they learned it's not. It's just two autocrats
               | teaming up at the expense of Ukraine.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | That is not even close to analogous.
               | 
               | Meh, feel free to disagree. How many MAGA voters do you
               | talk to on a daily basis?
        
               | croes wrote:
               | In person? None.
               | 
               | Online? More than enough and they show the same kind of
               | malice like our own type of MAGA: AfD voters
        
             | derbOac wrote:
             | To borrow a phrase, any sufficiently incompetent
             | organization becomes indistinguishable from malice.
             | 
             | Although I agree with others' sentiment that focusing on
             | incompetence can be more persuasive to certain segments of
             | society.
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | It is not incompetence to put people with no relevant
           | experience into cabinet positions. It's purpose. Destruction
           | with a huge amount of distraction is the purpose.
        
           | lkrubner wrote:
           | What we are seeing is clearly an act of malice. We need to be
           | honest about that. Trying to obfuscate what we are seeing
           | helps no one. We should use plain English and talk in a
           | straightforward way about what is happening.
        
             | llamaimperative wrote:
             | "Helps no one" except probably winning elections, given the
             | "he's a fascist" messaging (while true) didn't seem to
             | resonate.
        
             | raphman wrote:
             | I disagree. The nameservers still respond to requests on
             | 53/tcp. It seems like someone messed up a firewall
             | configuration or rolled out a bad server configuration.
             | Shit happens - maybe exacerbated by the DOGE insanity. But
             | there is no indication that this was done on purpose.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | The insanity that has/will lead to functions no longer
               | being properly staffed is on purpose.
        
           | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment
           | 
           | https://www.ft.com/content/02217acf-
           | ac64-49c2-acd5-ef4f107f0...
           | 
           | https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/techno-
           | fas...
           | 
           | There can be incompetence and malice together in all this.
           | The malicious often leverage the incompetent to further their
           | goals.
           | 
           | One way to get more people on board with destroying
           | government structures is to render the government structures
           | as ineffectual and incompetent as possible.
        
             | llamaimperative wrote:
             | I didn't say there isn't malice.
        
               | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
               | You want to downplay the malice to avoid arguments about
               | whether it's really malicious. I want to spotlight the
               | malice because it's really fucking bad and a lot of
               | people are going to get hurt, and that's not an
               | accidental outcome.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | And when these websites are back up? What then?
        
         | genter wrote:
         | This isn't a possibility. They've publicly stated it's their
         | goal.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225342
        
           | throw0101c wrote:
           | >> _https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43225342_
           | 
           | > _Everyone should watch the director of the Office of
           | Management and Budget, Russell Vought, speak on government
           | workers:_
           | 
           | Russell Vought is the architect of Project 2025:
           | 
           | * https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c977njnvq2do
           | 
           | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
           | 
           | You know, the thing that Trump publicly said he wasn't part
           | of.
        
             | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
             | That was a master class in weasel words.
             | 
             | "I haven't read it, I don't know what's in it."
             | 
             | "I know nothing about it."
             | 
             | I absolutely believe he never read it during the campaign,
             | probably hasn't done more than skim a summary to this day.
             | He doesn't need to. None of that matters to him.
             | 
             | Keeping his distance gave him "plausible"
             | deniability...kinda. Anyone who actually thought Trump
             | wasn't going to let Heritage Foundation people take over
             | substantial control of government should take a long hard
             | look at their sources of information, internal biases, and
             | critical thinking capability.
        
         | smallmancontrov wrote:
         | If history is any indication, it won't even go towards fixing
         | the debt. Capital Gains tax cut incoming in 3... 2... 1...
        
           | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
           | What capital gains? Everyone will be getting tax relief next
           | year for market losses.
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | That's already planned. The republicans want to pass
           | _another_ 4.5 trillion of tax cuts for the richest 0.1%
           | 
           | They simply lie to their supporters, and are believed because
           | republicans are indoctrinated throughout life to believe that
           | "government bad, corporations good, taxes bad, money good,
           | collective power bad, individual power good"
           | 
           | trump said before the election he didn't know what project
           | 2025 was. He lied, pure and simple.
        
             | twoodfin wrote:
             | The TCJA made $4.5T in cuts for the richest 0.1%? Can you
             | explain more about that? Is that by income, wealth?
        
             | elif wrote:
             | It's deeper than lying about P25. P25 was allegedly an
             | intentionally public document, designed to grab the media
             | spotlight. It is actually plausible that trump had never
             | seen a single page of that document by design.
             | 
             | There is a secret runbook that goes much further than P25
             | which the same authors ensured was never printed or emailed
             | anywhere which could be susceptible to FOIA. That is the
             | runbook they have been using since day 1, which likely
             | contained all 74 of his day 1 orders pre-written.
        
               | greenie_beans wrote:
               | somebody needs to FOIA donald trump jr's etc chatgpt
               | account
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | Trump is too reactionary to have an N-step plan. The man
               | thrives in chaos and uncertainty. Furthermore project 25
               | is large enough I'd be a lot more surprised if whatever
               | happens wasn't on that wishlist somewhere.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Trump lied about a lot of things.
             | 
             | The concept of "electoral fraud" is enshrined in law, so I
             | guess more lawsuits are coming.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | The entire federal workforce is 4% of expenses. If they
           | wanted to cut costs, they would halt all private contracts
           | and audit those first.
        
         | ldoughty wrote:
         | There's a proven track record with the Republican plan and USPS
         | that they like to sabotage the agency and then point to the
         | dysfunction they created as a reason to get rid of it. I fully
         | suspect that we're going to hear that several agencies have
         | been non-productive since January 20th and should thus be
         | cut... Despite the fact that they BLINDLYfired not only the new
         | employees, but all the employees that have had promotions over
         | the last year as well (And were probationary in their new
         | role).
        
           | i80and wrote:
           | I don't know how to fix this ratchet of "Republicans shatter
           | things for fun and self-profit; Democrats try to tape things
           | back together but it's harder to fix things than break them;
           | so voters punish them by electing Republicans" that's been
           | going on my entire life
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | It's not that simple. Democrats are responsible for plenty
             | of stupid ideas, and Republicans have pushed through some
             | good ideas.
             | 
             | Being overly reductionist makes one easier to reject as
             | partisan.
             | 
             | What is new is the MAGA/2025 hijacking of the Republican
             | party to enact its goals. To the extent that the current
             | Republican leadership is essentially a different party than
             | it was 6 years ago.
        
               | aswanson wrote:
               | 10 year dominance of a political party by one man is not
               | a hijacking. It's a revealed preference.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | I think they believe the hijacking happened 12 years ago.
        
               | natebc wrote:
               | It started in 2008 and kicked into super high gear in
               | 2010.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | Yeah, this might be correct. It's possible Trumpism is a
               | natural extension of tea-party-ism.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Especially ironic, given one of the tenets of tea
               | partyism was paying down the national debt.
        
               | i80and wrote:
               | The national debt is too abstract and wonk-ish to be an
               | actual tenet of a populist movement. I remember people
               | _talked_ about it a lot, but only in trite ways and I
               | really think it was just a fig leaf.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | The national debt is concrete, but no president likes
               | having their ability to spend constrained.
               | 
               | It should be handled in the way all >4 year payback US
               | problems are: by empowering a commission to do the
               | neccessary unpopular things and give members longer-
               | than-4-year terms.
        
               | djeastm wrote:
               | How is it a hijack? He got and is still getting
               | overwhelming support from the GOP rank and file.
               | 
               | It mightve been a hijack at one point, but MAGA owns the
               | whole airline now.
        
               | DevX101 wrote:
               | Many Republicans don't realize this. The party you've
               | voted for all your life is not the same party running
               | America today. Today's Republican party has been co-opted
               | by an Anarcho-capitalist wing. And step 1, which they're
               | well on track to do is to dismantle the Federal
               | government. Step 2, which will be coming within the next
               | year or two is to sell off previous government services
               | to private entities.
        
               | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
               | When the Soviet Union collapsed the US sent over
               | "economic consultants" to steer what happened next
               | towards "free markets."
               | 
               | What happened next is that various chancers marched into
               | state institutions, usually with private security details
               | made of low-grade armed thugs promoted from street crime,
               | and said "This is ours now."
               | 
               | The US aristocracy saw this and apparently thought
               | "Perfect - let's make that happen here too."
               | 
               | The fact there's been no significant state or media push
               | back against Musk's takeovers is all anyone needs to
               | know. The aim is a kleptocratic imperium drowning in
               | gold, drugs, delusion, and corruption - which is exactly
               | what Russia turned into.
        
               | Muromec wrote:
               | The best part is where the plant is still state property
               | on paper, but operates at loss because it exports
               | everything to a shell company in Austria who resells it
               | at profit paid to the actual benefociary controller.
               | 
               | And if report on this, the president orders you to be
               | behaded
        
               | ethagnawl wrote:
               | It's an evolution, not a hijack. Even Mitt Romney accepts
               | it as the new normal:
               | https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/15/politics/video/mitt-
               | romney-ma...
        
               | clumsysmurf wrote:
               | David Brooks, at the Alliance for Responsible
               | Citizenship, had a session called "How the Elite rigged
               | Society (and why it's falling apart)"
               | 
               | I included a link just below to at the exact timestamp he
               | talks about this:
               | 
               | How Brooks sees Trumpism: not conservative, they don't
               | have a conservative or positive vision for society, they
               | just want to destroy the institutions "dominated" by
               | left. In his words, this means, they are astoundingly
               | incompetent. "Elite Narcissicm" leads to the destruction
               | of every thought system it encounters.
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/QSa52TR9tCA?si=Uckncgw-WbAfA5tZ&t=277
        
               | i80and wrote:
               | I attended GOP caucuses circa 2010-2014. I would like to
               | believe there was once a healthy sensible conservative
               | party, but I'm sorry to say that to my eyes nothing has
               | been hijacked: MAGA is what the Republican party has been
               | for my entire adult life. It's just loud about it in
               | public now instead of behind the doors of political
               | machinery.
        
               | aswanson wrote:
               | Facts. All Trump did was take the top talking points of
               | AM radio & fox (birtherism/racism, illegal immigration,
               | and no factory jobs) and parroted them to power.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | That's a fundamental shift in historical Republicanism
               | though.
               | 
               | For most of its history, the Republican party was fairly
               | anti-populist (defined by whatever populism was at the
               | time).
               | 
               | The Republican southern strategy from 1980+ was
               | predicated on attracting southern white votes by
               | attacking civil rights (explicitly or implicitly), but
               | ultimately focusing on business priorities (with some
               | headline-catching red meat).
               | 
               | However, in the decades since, the explosion of hardline
               | conservative talk radio then dragged the party to answer
               | to its more egregious populist demands.
               | 
               | Hence Trump.
        
               | aswanson wrote:
               | That bait-and-switch reveals the core, though. The R base
               | wanted what Trump is doing all along but was tricked by
               | the establishment business class. The reason they are so
               | loyal to Trump is because he ripped away the fasaud and
               | acts out their longstanding wishes.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | I would argue that their opposition to civil rights _was_
               | populist. It was amoral and intended only to get votes
               | from racists, as an "ends justify the means" way to
               | pursue deregulation and corporatism.
        
               | selimnairb wrote:
               | There is a through line from Goldwater to Nixon to Reagan
               | to Gingrich to Trump. Connective tissue has been provided
               | by the likes of Roger Stone. This has been a 60-plus year
               | project to overturn the New Deal.
        
               | markhahn wrote:
               | Non-MAGA republicans gave up; they are now extinct.
        
               | amanaplanacanal wrote:
               | There were two paths, the examples I would give are
               | Cheney and Graham. Both thought Trump was terrible, one
               | stuck to her convictions and is now out of government,
               | the other rolled over and is now licking Trump's boots.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | Name a single good idea the Republican Party has proposed
               | and implemented at the federal level since 2000.
               | 
               | The most recent thing I can think of was getting Clinton
               | to balance the budget, and he was a democrat.
        
               | neaden wrote:
               | PEPFAR started in 2003 under Bush and has saved millions
               | of lives. Of course Trump is dismantling it now but I
               | think it's inarguably the best thing Bush did as
               | president.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | The GOP fought against AIDS interventions since its
               | discovery.
               | 
               | Had they not, PEPFAR or something similar would have
               | existed a decade or more earlier.
               | 
               | Lotsa people died because of that.
               | 
               | By 2003, it was no longer tenable to refuse to fight
               | AIDS, plus, notable GOP family members got AIDS.
               | 
               | Just like Nancy Reagan's 180 on gay people once her
               | daughter came out.
        
               | SauciestGNU wrote:
               | I totally agree with you, but as someone who has seen the
               | impact on the ground in parts of Africa, and how HIV/AIDS
               | is no longer the death sentence it once was, PEPFAR is an
               | amazing program that came too late, but let's not
               | discount the actual good that it has done.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | Of course not! Better late than never.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | What good ideas?
               | 
               | The entire platform of the GOP is that the government is
               | the problem.
               | 
               | The ACA would have been _much_ better had the GOP not
               | tried to stop it any way possible. Suing to remove
               | critical aspects of it, voting at every turn against it,
               | arguing that there would be death panels for
               | grandparents.
               | 
               | Even once it was law, no attempt to improve, or replace.
               | 
               | A good faith effort would include an alternative health
               | care plan. Where is it?
               | 
               | Two options: either incapable of producing a plan or are
               | at best indifferent to the suffering and death of
               | hundreds of thousands of people, if not more.
               | 
               | The GOP has only tirelessly worked to ensure that the ACA
               | would be less effective than it could have been.
               | 
               | Note: not repeal it. It's entirely too popular and
               | effective for that.
        
             | soulofmischief wrote:
             | Takes like this only focus on domestic politics and ignore
             | the harrowing neoliberal foreign politics both parties
             | uphold in order to perpetuate class inequality and create
             | consumer demand. Both parties are invested in selling this
             | country out, even if some Democrats really do care about
             | social services.
        
               | i80and wrote:
               | I actually agree, but I'm not sure this is a relevant
               | observation. It's not fawning over Democrats to say that
               | they are, as a group, pro-institution.
        
             | npteljes wrote:
             | The two-party system in itself doesn't work well. So I'm
             | not holding my breath.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | > "probationary in their new role"
           | 
           | This is such a big tech "move fast and break things" thing to
           | do. The cancer has now metastasized and reached the executive
           | function.
        
           | zaik wrote:
           | Don't worry, a privately owned monopoly will pick up the
           | slack.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | This is an explicit Project 2025 goal.
        
           | sigmoid10 wrote:
           | It's surprising to see how many people still don't get this.
           | None of what happened so far was in any way surprising. You
           | can literally go right now and read up what else they have
           | planned. We're in for a wild ride.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | I distinctly 'member people _even right here on this site_
             | taking dumps on anyone who dared accuse the Republicans of
             | being hellbent on implementing Project 2025. Called us
             | "conspiracy nuts", said that this was just "enemy
             | propaganda" or that there was no connection between Trump
             | and Project 2025, downvoted and flagged our warnings...
             | where the fuck are y'all now? Where the fuck are y'all with
             | your guns and "don't tread on me" flags now that MAGA is
             | tearing down the government and installing an autocracy in
             | all but name? And where the fuck are the even more people
             | who did just the same on Reddit?
             | 
             | The thing is, almost no one was used to politicians
             | actually following through with their plans and promises.
             | Trump is the first Western leader since I'm alive (other
             | than the current Spanish government) to actually do what he
             | has promised, and I fear this image of him being an
             | "accomplisher" will send him for a wave of support in both
             | the midterms and the next election (and yes, I also believe
             | that there will be no one left to enforce the "two terms"
             | regulation).
        
               | nubinetwork wrote:
               | Democrats don't believe in guns or storming the white
               | house... they'll either wait 4 years or wishfully dream
               | that orange man dies of a heart attack.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | > I also believe that there will be no one left to
               | enforce the "two terms" regulation).
               | 
               | I don't want to suggest what Trump himself suggested:
               | https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-2nd-amendment-
               | folks-st...
               | 
               | I think that's a bad option.
               | 
               | What I am saying is: Every single time I've seen a
               | headline about school shootings, someone suggests gun
               | control.
               | 
               | Someone reacts that guns keep the government from
               | becoming despots.
               | 
               | I said then, no, the military are the ones who decide
               | such things. Militia don't make a dent, despite their
               | self image.
               | 
               | And yet, Trump, who just narrowly avoided being killed,
               | signed more support of the 2nd amendment.
               | 
               | https://www.nraila.org/articles/20250207/nra-statement-
               | on-pr...
               | 
               | Did he sign because he's afraid, or because he's not?
        
               | mindslight wrote:
               | > _Where the fuck are y 'all with your guns and "don't
               | tread on me" flags now that MAGA is tearing down the
               | government and installing an autocracy in all but name?_
               | 
               | The same place they were when Breonna Taylor was
               | summarily executed by government agents retaliating for
               | Kenneth Walker exercising his second amendment right to
               | home defense at night (the exact type of scenario they
               | continually grandstand about!) - following the twisted
               | logic and misdirection of their mainstream media so they
               | can continue lazily attacking a strawman of their fellow
               | citizens ("oWn tHe lIbS!1!") rather than reflect on what
               | it would actually take to live their purported values.
               | 
               | At this point the only real question for so-called
               | "conservatives" is _when_ will they realize their leaders
               | have betrayed us and given away our country 's future to
               | China?
        
             | andyjohnson0 wrote:
             | Reminds me of how 9/11 turned into the GWoT and Iraq I etc.
             | The Project for the New American Century posted their
             | playbook for that on their website too. Most people
             | downplayed it.
        
             | x86_64Ubuntu wrote:
             | They get it, they just know it looks bad so they act as if
             | they are surprised.
        
               | plagiarist wrote:
               | There are still some people (even in this thread)
               | pretending it is not deliberately sabotaging the
               | government in favor of billionaires.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | And at some point it's time to take action to go around a rogue
         | non government. We have the technology, we can rebuild it.
        
           | lkrubner wrote:
           | We can rebuild the government. We will eventually rebuild the
           | government. All of these agencies will eventually be rebuilt.
           | It might take 20 years, but eventually the USA will get back
           | to where it was in late 2024, in terms of state capacity. But
           | the damage being done right now almost guarantees a "Lost
           | Generation" that has to spend its life rebuilding what we
           | had, rather than moving into the future.
        
             | danieldk wrote:
             | It is possible, but why do you believe this is a necessity?
             | It's also possible that the US becomes an oligarchy
             | dictatorship like Russia. All the assets are seized by a
             | small group (crashing the economy, removing oversight,
             | removing national park maintenance, etc. makes it
             | possible). Then give people just enough money and fear not
             | to revolt. Feed them propaganda all day, find some enemies
             | to direct their hate towards. I mean, it's pretty much
             | Vance and Thiel's playbook, rule by 'wise' tech CEOs.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | I'm genuinely afraid of what we're doing to our
               | childrens' futures.
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | We're already far too balkanized as a country for a
               | central dictatorship to make much sense in the long run.
               | Especially when the money tap starts running dry. I think
               | we'll just have an extremely weak federal government (or
               | perhaps we will finally split.)
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | A centralized dictatorship is what held the actual
               | Balkans together...
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | How's that working in the long term?
               | 
               | What has bound us together as a people is the massive
               | ocean of cash we collectively float on. Abundance that's
               | actively being slashed and burned as we speak. Apologies
               | for the mixed metaphor.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | I was hinting at building an alternative system that would
             | be resilient to this kind of tampering. Decentralization
             | fanatics might be of use right now.
        
               | qgin wrote:
               | Can you sketch out a bit more how this could work?
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | With precision no, I'm a newb, but a distributed system
               | ala DHT, or git so that there is no single path of
               | access.
        
               | i80and wrote:
               | I cannot emphasize enough that _this is not a technology
               | problem_ , nor is it one where solutions can be usefully
               | informed by technology.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | Sorry if I misjudged the way to approach this, I still
               | think that the 'method' (or technology) matters because
               | it influence the social and political layer too. How
               | would you approach it, genuinely curious.
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | The only thing I can think of would be.... weakening the
               | federal government and giving up on the idea of
               | centralized control outside of the military and the
               | dollar. Which is exactly what republicans are doing now.
               | 
               | On the bright side, this might also mean the end of
               | rampaging around the globe in the name of democracy. I
               | think that ship has fully sailed, alhamdulillah.
        
               | edoceo wrote:
               | Every citizen of age is entered into a lottery. From this
               | pool you will be selected, at random, to be assigned into
               | a government management role (eg: president, law maker,
               | justice) supported by staff. Any citizen, randomly in
               | roles of power. No voting. Then you serve your role for 4
               | years and never get another one. Now the incentive is to
               | do the least harm?
        
             | andyjohnson0 wrote:
             | > We can rebuild the government. We will eventually rebuild
             | the government. All of these agencies will eventually be
             | rebuilt. It might take 20 years,
             | 
             | They're going to a lot of effort, and exposing themselves
             | to a lot of risk, if this is all likely to be undone in a
             | few years time. My worry is that they won't be able to
             | resist trying to permanently lock-in these changes, even if
             | the most obvious way to do that is to abandon democracy.
        
             | ForTheKidz wrote:
             | Our global influence and wealth will almost certainly never
             | be this high again. I think that's probably a very good
             | thing for the globe in itself, but we can wreak a lot of
             | destruction on our way out of power.
        
         | someothherguyy wrote:
         | It is well-known, but it seems like it is hip to be indifferent
         | on this sinking ship.
        
         | throw0101c wrote:
         | > _At some point we have to consider the possibility that these
         | aren't just cuts to the budget_
         | 
         | "At some point"? That point was a few weeks, like when they
         | blindly purged the folks that did maintenance on nuclear
         | weapons:
         | 
         | * https://time.com/7225798/doge-fires-national-nuclear-
         | securit...
         | 
         | Or when they purged people dealing with bird flu:
         | 
         | * https://apnews.com/article/usda-firings-doge-bird-flu-
         | trump-...
        
           | csomar wrote:
           | Given that they Kennedy retracted on the vaccine mandate
           | suggests gross incompetence might be at play here.
        
             | kennysoona wrote:
             | I normally defer to Hanlon's Razor, but with this
             | administration it's 50/50 if their actions are due to
             | incompetence or malice.
             | 
             | The only thing we know is their intent is never to benefit
             | the majority of the people they are meant to be serving.
        
               | tedivm wrote:
               | I don't think we need to pick between incompetence and
               | malice here. I think both apply to most of their actions.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | Select non-malicious but incompetent people to head
               | departments, gives you plausible deniability when people
               | claim that what's happening is malicious. "No, look, RFK
               | Jr is sincere in his desire to help the American people."
               | He's just really bad at it. Of course, that doesn't speak
               | well to the judgment of the people at the top. They'll
               | try and claim that RFK Jr did a fine job and it was the
               | Deep State that caused the problems.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | Probably exactly what will happen. "Oh, with the dramatic
               | reduction in vaccinations the American people would have
               | been so much healthier, but the Deep State sprayed
               | measles from chemtrails just to make us look bad"
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | At this point, I don't see why it should matter if it's
               | criminal negligence or malice.
               | 
               | They know what they are doing is illegal. Or, if they
               | don't, it's because they are actively insisting on not
               | learning it, what shouldn't make any difference.
        
               | throw0101c wrote:
               | > _I normally defer to Hanlon 's Razor, but with this
               | administration it's 50/50 if their actions are due to
               | incompetence or malice._
               | 
               | The incompetent people were hired / appointed[1] as a
               | form of malice against the "Deep State" (read: civil
               | service) specifically, and government and civil society
               | in general.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system
        
               | jrflowers wrote:
               | Hanlon's razor is funny because it assumes that malicious
               | actors can't be incompetent and incompetent people can't
               | act maliciously. It is a fun logical trick that functions
               | by pretending that huge swathes of the population don't
               | exist, like a sort of inverted cognitive behavioral
               | therapy exercise
        
               | kennysoona wrote:
               | I don't think it is assuming that malicious actors can't
               | be incompetent or that incompetent people can't act
               | maliciously, it's just asserting that incompetence is so,
               | so much more widespread than actual malice.
        
           | clumsysmurf wrote:
           | Indeed, as Gary Kasparov eluded to
           | 
           | "These are not the acts of people who expect to lose power
           | any time soon, or ever."
           | 
           | https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2025/02/pu.
           | ..
           | 
           | or
           | 
           | https://archive.is/l4kLV
        
             | devin wrote:
             | Not sure why you took a downvote. I think it is plain to
             | see that we are unlikely to have free and fair elections in
             | 2028, possibly even the next cycle.
        
               | readthenotes1 wrote:
               | That's exactly the attitude a number of right-wing people
               | had after Trump's 2020 election loss.
        
               | oblio wrote:
               | The thing is, are these situations really comparable?
               | 
               | Biden has just transferred power peacefully and
               | gracefully, his supporters didn't initiate any coups.
               | 
               | And after Trump's 2020 loss, Biden basically enacted a
               | bunch of sensible policies, including continuing some
               | reasonable Trump policies (some specific tariffs, for
               | example). Trump in 2025 instead decided to ban paper
               | straws (!!!!).
        
           | orblivion wrote:
           | I think if your argument is that they're making hasty
           | decisions, you've provided good evidence for that. But the
           | remainder of the sentence you quoted was:
           | 
           | > but an intentional plan to visit each government department
           | and giving it a stab wound to let it bleed out and die over
           | the course of the next year or two.
           | 
           | If your argument is that they're trying to make agencies die,
           | and you're using the above as _evidence_ for this, then you
           | 'd have to convince me that they _want_ the government to
           | lose control of nuclear bombs or bird flu.
        
             | throw0101c wrote:
             | > _If your argument is that they 're trying to make
             | agencies die, and you're using the above as evidence for
             | this, then you'd have to convince me that they want the
             | government to lose control of nuclear bombs or bird flu._
             | 
             | I'm saying they want to get rid of government:
             | 
             | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
             | 
             | * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43218884
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | I don't necessarily disagree, but unless they're
               | literally ready to jump to anarcho-capitalism in the next
               | four years I don't think they're trying to let the
               | nuclear bombs go unattended. I think the specific
               | examples you gave aren't your best examples to this
               | point. If anything it's a counter-argument.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | There are US citizens, former employees of USAID, who
               | have been abandoned after trying to stop a cholera
               | outbreak in the middle of a civil war in South Sudan.
               | 
               | With their families.
               | 
               | Their security detail: fired. Their logistics team:
               | fired.
               | 
               | No water, no power, no fuel.
               | 
               | Look: sufficiently advanced incompetence and/or
               | carelessness is equivalent to malice.
               | 
               | I don't care if you WANT to attend to the nuclear
               | weapons, if you are so unserious, or understaffed, or
               | incompetent, or distracted, or whatever to fail to
               | actually do the thing.
               | 
               | Intent is irrelevant. Outcomes are everything.
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | That's fair, but the initial point I was replying to was
               | about intent.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | Again, intent is irrelevant.
               | 
               | Sure, criminal negligence vs murder, but do you really
               | care if it's your kid?
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | And again, I'm responding to another post (two, actually)
               | about intent. If you have an issue with it, take it up
               | with them. I acknowledge your point as fair, but a
               | separate point.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | Do not worry about world-ending neglect towards the staff
               | responsible for the maintenance and security of our
               | nuclear arsenal, their intent was only for a smaller
               | government!
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | I don't know what's going on with HN right now, there
               | usually is a lot more reading comprehension and level
               | headed conversation, even on controversial topics.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | It's not me minimizing a series of catastrophic events
               | because in my great wisdom I have perfectly ascertained
               | the intentions of an unpredictable administration, it's
               | reading comprehension.
        
               | freen wrote:
               | The foundations of the American government and its
               | ability to care for its citizens. People are loosing
               | their livelihoods, people are dying, etc.
               | 
               | You have been desperately attempting to defend the
               | "intent" of the perpetrators.
               | 
               | That might rub folks the wrong way, huh?
        
               | _DeadFred_ wrote:
               | They have spoken their intent out loud, over and over.
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | I think I did a poor job of articulating my point. My
               | point is that they've spoken their intent to smash the
               | bureaucratic state. Their intent is not to dismantle 100%
               | of the government, including the military and the nuclear
               | bombs. So I don't think the nuclear bombs incident is a
               | great example of them enacting their intent. Unless you
               | actually think they want to do that, but then that's a
               | much different claim you're backing up.
        
             | freen wrote:
             | Sufficient active disregard for consequences is equivalent
             | to actively seeking said consequences.
             | 
             | If someone consistently drives extremely recklessly,
             | refuses to service their brakes, allows their tires to
             | become completely tread worn, removes their mirrors, etc.
             | etc.
             | 
             | What could one reasonably infer about their desire to get
             | into a car crash?
             | 
             | Would loud and repeated claims of a desire to drive safely
             | convince you? Moreover, would you consider such claims to
             | be in good faith, especially if said reckless behavior
             | continues?
             | 
             | Besides, the GOP has said time and time again: let's make
             | the government so small we can drown it in the bathtub.
             | 
             | What private sector entity would find it profitable, or
             | even be able to, control the bird flu or manage the nuclear
             | arsenal.
             | 
             | Much less, do you want there to be a profit motive in those
             | places?
        
             | digdugdirk wrote:
             | "Yes, your honour, I did shoot him point blank in the
             | chest. But you can't use that fact as evidence that I
             | wanted to kill him, that's just evidence of how he died."
             | 
             | Murder, manslaughter, intent, accident, purpose, neglect.
             | We have many words that try to put a degree of malice on
             | the act of taking a life, but the life is still gone.
             | 
             | At some point, you need to draw a line in the sand and say
             | "They're going where I can't follow.". Right now, it seems
             | like you're drawing the line right _after_ they come out
             | and tell the world that they specifically intend to burn
             | America to the ground and auction off the remains for their
             | personal profit. Where you draw your line is your own
             | personal choice, but it 's worth thinking about ahead of
             | time.
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | What is your model of this group of people behind DOGE?
               | If it's a group of radical right wingers with libertarian
               | leaning who want to smash the bureaucratic state, that's
               | probably accurate and most people (even supporters) can
               | get behind that characterization. Do you think _this
               | group of people_ , ushered in by Donald John Trump, want
               | to dismantle the military? If not, then why would they
               | _purposely_ try to lose control of the nukes? There
               | probably exist some radical libertarians (or even left-
               | wing anarchists) who would actually advocate for let 's
               | say decommissioning the nukes, but I think it's pretty
               | clear that that's not who's in office.
               | 
               | What I see is a ham-fisted approach to slashing the
               | Department of Energy. That's the actual goal. Plenty of
               | anti-Trump outlets report it that way. The idea that they
               | actually _want_ the nuclear weapons to lapse is a pretty
               | bold implication, assuming I 'm not misunderstanding the
               | argument.
        
             | Centigonal wrote:
             | I don't think there is one unified plan to destroy the
             | federal government; however, many influential people in the
             | current administration are motivated to destroy particular
             | parts of the federal government and will not get in each
             | other's way. I believe the result of this is that the
             | current administration will attempt to destroy the union
             | (inclusive OR) of all the agencies that influential
             | individuals within the administration want to destroy.
             | 
             | Here's a quote from the conservative political operative
             | and self-described Christian Nationalist Russ Vought, who
             | is both the current and former head of the Office of
             | Management and Budget under Trump:
             | 
             |  _"We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected.
             | When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want
             | to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the
             | villains. We want their funding to be shut down so that the
             | EPA can 't do all of the rules against our energy industry
             | because they have no bandwidth financially to do so. We
             | want to put them in trauma."_ [1]
             | 
             | This is a visceral and radical statement which has gotten
             | some airtime on the news recently. However, it's
             | interesting to note that Project 2025, which Vought helped
             | lead and authored key sections of, does not advocate for
             | the dismantling of USAID, rather recommending that its
             | mission be narrowly aligned to national security goals[2].
             | In 2025, however, Elon Musk wanted USAID shuttered, and
             | Vought was happy to oblige in his position as "the nerve
             | center of the federal budget."
             | 
             | However, Project 2025 advocates for eliminating or
             | defunding the Department of Homeland Security, Department
             | of Education, EPA, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and
             | other government agencies. It's likely that these will also
             | come under fire.
             | 
             | Finally (and this is my opinion), I believe it is
             | impossible to understand this current administration's
             | policy agenda without at least a surface level
             | understanding of the writing of Curtis Yarvin, a software
             | developer and reactionary political blogger. One this
             | topic, Yarvin says the following:
             | 
             |  _"What is government? A government is just a corporation
             | which owns a country. Nothing more, nothing less. It so
             | happens that our sovereign corporation is very poorly
             | managed and there's a very simple way to replace that,
             | which is what we do to all corporations that have failed.
             | We simply delete them."_
             | 
             | [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/video-donald-trump-
             | russ-v...
             | 
             | [2] https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadershi
             | p_FUL... (pg 253-255)
             | 
             | [3] https://apnews.com/article/trump-doge-russell-vought-
             | project...
        
               | 47282847 wrote:
               | See also https://project2025.observer/.
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | Could you imagine any Project 2025 type wanting the
               | government to disband the military? I imagine not. So why
               | would they want to lose control of the nukes? I think _in
               | the case of the nukes_ it was just a ham-fisted attempt
               | to downsize the Department of Energy. To that point, last
               | I heard they were scrambling to re-hire those people.
               | 
               | Curtis Yarvin isn't a libertarian (anymore), he's a
               | monarchist. I also don't think he would advocate for the
               | government to lose control of the nukes.
        
               | Centigonal wrote:
               | I think the DoE thing was a mistake. Kind of frightening
               | that nobody in the chain of execution for that decision
               | knew what the DoE actually does, but I don't think that
               | was intentional.
        
               | orblivion wrote:
               | Okay cool. Well maybe I misinterpreted, but it sounded
               | like the person I was responding to in my initial post
               | was implying that it was on purpose. Or at very least,
               | they would have to imply that it was on purpose for their
               | argument to make sense. That was my point. Perhaps I
               | haven't been clear.
        
               | Centigonal wrote:
               | I think the person I responded to did insinuate that, and
               | I think that the evidence they provided doesn't support
               | their premise.
               | 
               | I am making the argument that the current administration
               | _is_ trying to make government agencies die, but that it
               | isn 't one centrally orchestrated conspiracy. I am using
               | different evidence than the parent comment to make that
               | argument.
               | 
               | More importantly, the purpose of my original comment is
               | to inform readers of the thread on highly influential
               | second-tier actors (Russ Vought is well-known, but he's
               | not Elon Musk) and help foster a more nuanced discussion
               | of the current administration, its motivations, and its
               | actions.
        
               | smallmancontrov wrote:
               | Yeah. Remember when Mitt Romney planned a speech
               | promising to abolish the DoE, forgot which agency when
               | giving the speech, and then got put in charge of the DoE?
               | I imagine this is the sequel.
        
               | chao- wrote:
               | You are misremembering Rick Perry as Mitt Romney.
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | Keep in mind that this my be an internal revolt.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Argentina style. We've seen Musk with a chainsaw, he's not
         | trying to hide it.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly25yny3ego
        
         | yapyap wrote:
         | Don't wanna be that guy but if not really being about budget
         | cuts seemed pretty obvious from the start, if Elon and Donald
         | got a hand in it it's pretty much always ego driven.
        
         | akudha wrote:
         | Eh? "At some point"? You must've been sleeping. This has
         | nothing to do with efficiency or improving the budget. Bill
         | Clinton laid off thousands of employees, but he did it in an
         | orderly fashion, got congressional approval etc. This is the
         | exact opposite. The goal here is to cause havoc, be cruel, cut
         | regulations (by reducing budget and reducing personnel) etc.
         | After the carnage, divvy up what's left among the billionaires.
         | So far, it seems going according to plan.
         | 
         | Did you hear what Russell Vought said? "We want the bureaucrats
         | to be traumatically affected,"
         | 
         | Anyone genuinely interested in efficiency should start with why
         | the Pentagon has failed audits and is unable to account for
         | tens (hundreds?) of billions of dollars
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | I wonder how long until they pull the "who needs public
         | libraries when you have Jeff Bezos?" shtick again.
        
         | ck2 wrote:
         | and it's not like private industry is going to do this work,
         | there's no profit in such services, at least not short term
         | 
         | AND if they are doing this to NIH, imagine what they are doing
         | to food and drug inspection for safety
         | 
         | just assume all regulation is gone or being ignored without
         | penalty, now scale that out for four years
         | 
         | Forget "great depression" it's a dark ages of sorts with
         | smartphones for distraction
        
           | DevX101 wrote:
           | TurboTax makes a lot of profit. This a perfect example of
           | what should be a government service being privatized. That
           | model will be replicated.
        
         | MPSimmons wrote:
         | It's really hard to have private companies charge for doing
         | work that a functional government agency performs.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | The US mismanaged the pandemic about as badly as anyone
           | could; other than the ubiquitous surveillance of the
           | population I don't know many us federal agencies that I
           | personally would describe as "quite functional".
           | 
           | I certainly don't know any that require they be run by the
           | state.
        
         | UncleMeat wrote:
         | Curtis Yarvin has been writing about this forever. JD Vance has
         | spoken publicly about his agreement with ideas like RAGE
         | (Retire All Government Employees). Musk has similarly spoken
         | publicly about how CEOs are the best people to run the world.
         | Although Thiel is not directly in power, he's also a Yarvin-ite
         | and has been instrumental in both Vance's rise and also the
         | pipeline for the various people working at DOGE to destroy the
         | government.
         | 
         | Alongside these budget cuts, the GOP is proposing massive tax
         | cuts and massive _increases_ in funding for parts of the
         | government related to law and immigration enforcement that will
         | massively outweigh any savings from DOGE destroying entire
         | programs overnight. DOGE is also demolishing organizations that
         | are revenue positive and Trump has fired Inspector Generals,
         | who are responsible for identifying waste and inefficiency in
         | government operations.
         | 
         | It isn't a possibility. It is very very clear.
        
           | hedora wrote:
           | In blue states, the middle class taxes are going to be hiked
           | to pay for all this, just like under Trump 1.
           | 
           | Also, half of the "law and immigration enforcement" budget
           | increase is actually going towards deploying the military
           | inside the US, which is illegal.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | This article is giving some background on the planning and
         | setup of the new DOGE: https://archive.ph/oJRrI
        
         | dcow wrote:
         | HN was in the same uproar after Musk reformed Twitter. Minor
         | disruption? "The sky is falling!" Brief outage? "It's malice!"
         | "You see! Musk is obviously driving it into the ground."
         | 
         | Could there be a world in the middle where maybe the government
         | is bloated and irresponsibly spending money and republicans
         | aren't just myopic nitwits and do care for our country? And
         | they're executing on cleaning things up but in a way you
         | disagree with?
         | 
         | Why is it always malice and ruin? It's tiring. Twitter BTW
         | pulled 1.25B in profit last year...
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | The government is bloated but rather than attacking the bloat
           | (DoD budget that never shrank after ending two wars,
           | subsidies for profitable businesses) they're going after the
           | regulatory infrastructure that protects Americans from
           | corporate greed.
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | Extraneous regulation stifles innovation and is the
             | definition of bloat. I certainly haven't been protected
             | from corporate greed lately, have you? The main function if
             | gov't is to provide a military. That's appropriate spend.
        
           | hooverd wrote:
           | Because it's the explicit goal of the people doing it. Why go
           | after the CFPB and 18F and IRS Direct File? They've been very
           | outspoken about destroying administrative capacity and making
           | the executive branch a king to punish the enemies of their
           | national conservatism project. Red states are already trying
           | to roll back women's and LGBT people's rights. How does
           | trying to overturn Obergefull balance the budget?
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | There is waste everywhere. I sincerely don't understand
             | how, when the stated plan is to look closely at all orgs
             | and cut waste across the board, when the lens focuses on
             | specific instances of orgs, the response is "not this one,
             | cutting here will ruin everything". I don't buy it.
        
               | hooverd wrote:
               | What is developing in-house capabilities with 18F waste?
               | Why is protecting consumers from scams and even recouping
               | that money by the CFPB waste? Why is allowing people to
               | e-file without private middlemen waste?
        
               | dcow wrote:
               | Well, we don't need two identity providers, for one. I'm
               | sure the non wasteful things will be sustained under
               | different management that isn't insubordinate.
        
               | hyoomen wrote:
               | You're sure... Based on what?
               | 
               | Non wasteful things... Such as? Says who?
               | 
               | "Different management" ffs the govt isn't supposed to
               | pivot like a company every 4-8 yrs. That's an unthinking
               | suggestion for a federal govt & heterogenous population.
               | 
               | "Insubordinate"... To a unitary executive?
        
           | _DeadFred_ wrote:
           | Ah yes, tech companies that provide zero personal support
           | just scaling storage and delivery are the same as government
           | which is MOSTLY providing support and person to person work,
           | the OPPOSITE of scalable using tech.
        
         | catlover76 wrote:
         | It's already well-known that crippling the government and
         | destroying things is the point. To have ever entertained
         | anything else is to have been naive, morally defective, and
         | stupid.
        
         | jordanpg wrote:
         | ** WAKE UP FOLKS! ** THIS IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. NO ONE IS
         | COMING TO SAVE US.
         | 
         | If you're in the US, it's time to start asking yourself what
         | you are going to want to be able to say to your kids or
         | grandkids when they ask what you did about it when the
         | constitutional republic was falling.
        
         | sizzle wrote:
         | What's the end goal here though?
        
       | sirolimus wrote:
       | Really pubmed?!?! USA is a disgrace!
        
       | bananapub wrote:
       | the level of malice towards like...the entire world displayed by
       | Trump and Musk is just beyond comprehension.
       | 
       | how did they become so sociopathic and why did Americans let them
       | have the most powerful jobs in the world?
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | They are being directed by putin to destroy the USA's influence
         | and power in the world.
         | 
         | trump, thiel, and musk also see how rich russia's oligarchs
         | are, and want to replicate russia in the USA.
        
           | derbOac wrote:
           | I'm not sure why you're being downvoted.
           | 
           | It's a viable explanation.
           | 
           | Russian state media were allowed into the Zelensky meeting
           | while other traditional news orgs were not.
           | 
           | The use of tariffs and customs against trading partners to
           | shape general foreign policy, via a compromised president, as
           | well as other things, is strongly reminiscent of Russian
           | interference in Ukraine pre-2014.
           | 
           | Even the Mueller report is best read as concluding there was
           | obstruction of justice into the investigation.
           | 
           | Thiel has openly discussed disappointment with democracy and
           | advocated for autocracy, and his companies have celebrated
           | the current state of things in shareholder meetings.
        
             | misiti3780 wrote:
             | It's being downvoted because it's idiotic!
        
               | walls wrote:
               | What would it look like if it were true? What would be
               | different from what is happening?
        
             | bloopernova wrote:
             | russian propagandists and useful idiots try to hide or
             | dismiss discussions about it.
             | 
             | russia owns trump. elon talks to putin regularly, and he
             | was promised access to Ukrainian mineral wealth. The whole
             | Panama canal, Canada, and Greenland sabre-rattling is so
             | eventually russian oil tankers can traverse the world with
             | impunity.
             | 
             | russia is dividing and conquering. They still dream of
             | being a superpower, instead of a failed mafia state with
             | nuclear weapons.
        
               | datavirtue wrote:
               | Our White House is filled with the Friends of Russia.
               | They want to turn Ukraine over to Russia and loot it. JD
               | Vance erupted on Zelenski because he showed people what
               | was happening instead of just glad-handing his way
               | through the talks and eating shit. This is a clear
               | indication of what happens to YOU should you dare not
               | fully submit.
               | 
               | Our only hope now is that the American economy rebels
               | against this insanity.
               | 
               | The Orange One spent a lot of time praising Zelenski
               | before throwing him to the wolves. That had to be a jolt
               | to everyone, admitted or not.
        
           | cupcakecommons wrote:
           | there are way better theories than this out there. is this
           | pro-elon/thiel/trump black propaganda? just sloppy and low-
           | effort
        
             | 52-6F-62 wrote:
             | They have spoken loudly about their intentions...
             | 
             | Published them, even. Many times. Bloody held conferences
             | about them.
        
           | misiti3780 wrote:
           | Lol
        
         | TheAlchemist wrote:
         | How ?
         | 
         | One is a convicted felon and the other one openly stated that
         | he's going to prison if said convicted felon is not elected
         | president.
         | 
         | WAKE UP AMERICA
        
         | Earw0rm wrote:
         | Eggs were getting too expensive thanks to H5N1, so they thought
         | they'd vote in a bunch of scientifically-illiterate antivax
         | clowns.
         | 
         | Think about it this way.. when tech folk got hooked up to
         | mainline net access 24/7, it wasn't exactly good for us. Think
         | 1970s cocaine consumption.
         | 
         | When the rest of the population got Facebook, that's a refined
         | and potent strain being sold into a population with no natural
         | immunity or defensive mechanisms. Now it's 1990 and there's a
         | crack dealer on every corner in poor neighborhoods.
         | 
         | Those politicians who were at the wheel in 2008-10 must bear a
         | share of the blame. They could see this coming, or should have
         | done. There was far too much complacency about what was
         | festering online and how easily it spread.
         | 
         | Did none of our leaders hear about Gamergate in, what, 2015 and
         | go, hang on we've got a BIG problem brewing here? Even GG
         | wasn't really that much of a shock/surprise if you'd been
         | paying attention since the mid 00's.
        
           | goodluckchuck wrote:
           | Eggs were getting expensive due to an egg monopoly raising
           | prices, according to the egg monopoly. The H5N1 was just the
           | reason given to the public.
        
       | ciconia wrote:
       | I for one welcome our new overlords, they're gonna make our lives
       | so much better at some point we're gonna have to ask them to stop
       | winning!
       | 
       | /s
        
         | bloomingeek wrote:
         | I will only bend my knee to a Pizza Overlord. (I've heard they
         | will have a stuffed crust and extra cheese, at no extra cost!)
         | All they require is I give up most of my freedoms and stop any
         | critical thinking.
        
           | datavirtue wrote:
           | Who needs critical thinking when you have stuffed crust!
        
       | DangerousPie wrote:
       | European alternatives:
       | 
       | https://europepmc.org/
       | 
       | https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/home
       | 
       | https://www.ensembl.org/
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | It's been great seeing the pan-European effort on genomics and
         | biotech.
         | 
         | Denmark's ecosystem is definetly a North Star for this.
         | 
         | That said, BLAST seems to be up [0]
         | 
         | [0] - https://blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Blast.cgi
        
           | catlikesshrimp wrote:
           | not for me
        
       | fabian2k wrote:
       | Pubmed is essentially Google for scientists. Anytime you search
       | for scientific publications you usually use Pubmed. Of course
       | there are alternatives, but until now you didn't really have to
       | know about those. Everyone just used Pubmed, I'd bet that even
       | most European scientists didn't know the local alternatives until
       | now.
       | 
       | And there's a lot more functionality made available to scientists
       | by the NIH.
        
       | InkCanon wrote:
       | What I'm astounded by is how Musk/DOGE haven't been stopped, sued
       | or even arrested. Isn't this interfering with the proper
       | functioning of government, or vandalism, or gross negligence,
       | some other illegal act?
        
         | timods wrote:
         | They are most definitely being sued:
         | https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal...
        
           | InkCanon wrote:
           | Not an expert on law, but isn't there some mechanism to get
           | policemen to stop DOGE while he's being sued? Like I imagine
           | if I started taking down traffic lights the police would stop
           | me then ask questions.
        
             | derbOac wrote:
             | I think that's the question on everyones minds. A judge has
             | to order it though, which would trigger a direct
             | confrontation between law enforcement divisions.
             | 
             | They could also order assets frozen or something though (I
             | think?) which I don't understand why they don't do.
        
             | chewbacha wrote:
             | Yes, court orders. But the officers that enforce them are
             | part of the executive branch, so under Trump. They have
             | been purging all career agents so there's few left to
             | willingly enforce court orders.
             | 
             | Its a coup.
        
             | someothherguyy wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_crisis
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Law enforcement is under the executive branch. The judicial
             | branch doesn't have any physical ability to project force.
             | The courts rely on the executive's respect to carry out the
             | rule of law.
        
             | Brybry wrote:
             | Here's an informative Congressional Research Service
             | article on Enforcement of Court Orders Against the
             | Executive Branch.[1]
             | 
             | TLDR; courts issue TRO (temporary restraining order),
             | preliminary injunction, or permanent injunctions. Normally
             | people comply. If the government does not comply then
             | individuals can be found in civil contempt and the U.S.
             | Marshals would enforce that. Civil contempt can't be
             | pardoned.
             | 
             | There have been some TROs and injunctions issued but also
             | some ignoring of them by the government (and also the
             | supreme court has temporarily stayed at least one). I don't
             | believe any contempt rulings (findings?) have been made, so
             | not yet appropriate for the cops (Marshals).
             | 
             | [1]
             | https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB11271
        
             | lesuorac wrote:
             | I dunno, if there were like 30 of you all wearing orange
             | vests and had relevant department of transportation
             | stickers on actual work pickup trucks I think you might be
             | able to get away with it as long as you threw some cones to
             | dead-end one way of the intersection.
        
         | chuckadams wrote:
         | Vandalism and gross negligence _is_ the function of the
         | government now. Failure is the goal.
        
         | badgersnake wrote:
         | This is what the US electorate voted for.
        
         | technion wrote:
         | I find this an interesting position after the news I just saw
         | that police departments are getting cybertrucks. I know that
         | doesn't technically mean anything but it sure has the optics of
         | police being very unlikely to arrest doge staff.
        
           | cetu86 wrote:
           | Given what we've seen so far it wouldn't surprise me if Musk
           | had built a kill switch into these vehicles to stop the
           | police from taking action against him.
        
         | buyucu wrote:
         | What Trump has done in 1 month is probably enough to keep
         | courts busy for the next two years. So, get in line.
        
         | jaybrendansmith wrote:
         | It definitely feels like someone is trying to inflict Project
         | Mayhem on our government. What's the appropriate response here
         | by law enforcement?
        
         | kennysoona wrote:
         | The people that see this as an issue are trying to respect the
         | rule of law, while the other half celebrate anything Musk and
         | his assistant Trump do even if it's clearly terrible.
         | 
         | When half the people are fine with it and all branches of
         | government are allied with them, there isn't much the rest of
         | us can do except try to clean up the mess when we get a chance
         | to.
        
       | goodluckchuck wrote:
       | It works for me.
        
         | InkCanon wrote:
         | I did a quick test, it looks like if you have set a DNS server
         | like 1.1.1.1 you can still access it. But if you haven't, you
         | can't.
        
       | fweimer wrote:
       | It's been pointed out that these servers still respond over TCP:
       | https://mstdn.social/@rysiek/114089755401568345
       | https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2025-Mar...
       | 
       | Given that the service is still partially operational (albeit not
       | in a useful way), it's difficult to say from the outside what is
       | going on.
        
         | thomasingalls wrote:
         | Pubmed is one of the most reliable services in the history of
         | the internet. Sure the exact issue is opaque, but the fish rots
         | from the head.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | Pubmed is running. (Thankfully as it is one of the building
           | blocks of science)
        
         | raphman wrote:
         | Can confirm.
         | 
         | Thanks for pointing this out. This makes it much more likely
         | that someone messed up a server/firewall configuration than
         | that Musk is ripping out network cables at NIH.
        
           | softwaredoug wrote:
           | OTOH it's possible this is the easiest way to disrupt a site
           | - screw with the DNS
        
           | daveguy wrote:
           | So we are looking at reckless incompetence, and not malice?
           | Sorry, but at this point, prove it.
        
             | hooverd wrote:
             | Biden was sleepy though!
        
         | stwrzn wrote:
         | This is for sure a firewall misconfiguration. If there would be
         | malicious intent, the bad actor would for sure not just close
         | UDP.
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | Why are people assuming this was done intentionally? Is there
       | more info somewhere describing the outage? I would typically
       | assume that there's some error or intentional crash.
        
         | Tyrubias wrote:
         | I would believe it was an accident or bug if it was any other
         | administration under any other circumstance. Given the
         | vandalism that's already been committed against basic U.S.
         | government functions, I have to conclude it's malice until
         | proven otherwise.
        
           | wisidisi wrote:
           | It is certainly intentionally that NCBI is miraculously down
           | for no real reason. But usually when the political debates
           | are heated it happens more often. What one can observe now is
           | just funny nothing of unhappy political activists.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | I hope you're proven wrong.
           | 
           | I suppose the good news is that there's no report that this
           | is malicious and it's all just assumptions. That makes me
           | happier than if there was some intentional shutdown.
           | 
           | And fortunately, pubmed is up and running as of 822amEST
        
         | quink wrote:
         | As for me, I believe it not only because of the current
         | administration per se, but because it's basically same as how
         | the usaid.gov shutdown happened.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | Don't worry bigballs is on it. What a clown show.
        
       | gary_0 wrote:
       | Apparently the FAA database that tracks accident investigations
       | is down also, and probably a bunch of other systems that regular
       | people aren't aware of that various organizations rely on.
       | 
       | If this was a Chinese cyberattack, it would be the scandal of the
       | decade. But it's on purpose.
        
       | juujian wrote:
       | Possibly has something to do with Musk's limit on credit card
       | payment? Very smart all around.
        
         | fabian2k wrote:
         | I don't think we can guess the specific problem here, but the
         | credit card limits could indeed easily take services offline as
         | hosting isn't payed. So it would not surprise me at all to see
         | a bunch of cases like this caused by the inability to pay their
         | hosting bills.
        
         | ivewonyoung wrote:
         | AFAIK cloudflare has a contract with CISA to provide DNS for
         | .gov
        
       | sunils34 wrote:
       | The entire 18f org was let go. Many of these employees oversaw
       | the building of digital services.
       | 
       | Login.gov is a most critical SSO resource for logging into
       | services such as the IRS for tax payments. It'll see peak usage
       | next month for taxes. The teams maintaining these have been
       | indiscriminately let go.
       | 
       | More of these online services will start to go down, rapidly.
       | 
       | If the point of DOGE is really to tackle the deficit, all these
       | moves are incredibly shortsighted.
       | 
       | (Yesterday the 18F former employee put https://18f.org/ as a
       | transparent warning of what's to come)
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | Isn't the leader of the 18f or digital whatever the so called
         | "head" of DOGE aka the face for Elon. Btw, he's totally not in
         | charge. Wink wink.
        
           | smallerize wrote:
           | I used to get them confused too, but 18f was a separate
           | organization from USDS which got renamed DOGE.
           | https://18f.org/
        
         | thecopy wrote:
         | >If the point of DOGE is really to tackle the deficit
         | 
         | It is obvious it is not. The purpose of a system is what it
         | does.
        
         | ethagnawl wrote:
         | > If the point of DOGE is really to tackle the deficit, all
         | these moves are incredibly shortsighted.
         | 
         | The point is to shutter or kneecap every last government
         | service. When it becomes obvious which services were/are
         | mission critical, they'll be replaced with private solutions --
         | most of which will conveniently be on offer from X.
        
           | fnordpiglet wrote:
           | In my 30+ years working at about everywhere and on everything
           | the only place I've worked, inclusive of federal roles, with
           | intentionally bottom productivity, are private government
           | contractors. Federal employees while fairly kushy in benefits
           | space were often pretty mission driven and believed deeply in
           | what they were doing as they had taken a long term commitment
           | on their role vs more money on the private side. The
           | contractor space is a constant churn of bids and re orgs with
           | the mission being keeping the contract in the next bidding
           | cycle but losing it due to random political whims. It's the
           | most depressing form of employment I've ever experienced, and
           | I've worked at multiple FAANG, so that's really saying
           | something.
        
       | decasia wrote:
       | It basically is like having politically motivated human chaos
       | monkeys running around the data center randomly killing systems
       | and seeing whether anyone notices.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | ...which seems like not the worst idea?
         | 
         | The very fact that it takes such a battle to even get read only
         | access to analyze where the money is going is evidence enough
         | that there is insanely baroque levels of waste and unnecessary
         | services happening here.
         | 
         | If it's that important it can be put back.
         | 
         | Why is it so scandalous that conservatives want a smaller
         | government, got elected, and are now making the government
         | smaller?
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | You wouldn't be saying "if it's important it can be put
           | back," if it was a government service important to you, like
           | water service to your house. Scientists actually need to use
           | pubmed.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | Equating government-funded research programs (completely
             | optional) to water provision isn't remotely coherent. Pipes
             | in the ground are a natural monopoly.
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | I'm glad I have the chance to explain this to somebody.
               | Research is also a natural monopoly, because a
               | fundamental particle can only be discovered once.
               | Repeated development of what's under the hood of a car
               | isn't wasted because every car is different, but repeated
               | invention of internal combustion would be wasted time and
               | energy.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | I don't believe your second sentence to be true; in fact
               | quite the opposite: research seems infinitely
               | parallelizable.
               | 
               | The discovery part is what happens at the end.
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | What I mean by wasted time and energy is, it is wasteful
               | for 1,000 researchers working in secret at private
               | companies to independently discover the same protein,
               | without telling anyone, when instead one person could
               | have discovered it and then shared the information. It's
               | like 1,000 companies digging trenches for water pipes
               | under the same road.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | This seems to conveniently ignore how patents work.
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | Working with the most charitable interpretation of your
               | view, is the idea that Peter Higgs would have patentented
               | the Higgs boson, CERN would have paid him royalties to
               | attempt to produce it, and CERN and Higgs together would
               | have sold the rights to a trust that was able to collect
               | royalties on all products whose invention required the
               | use of electroweak theory? It would have to be a patent
               | term that lasted about 100 years, otherwise Maxwell
               | wouldn't have been able to fund Maxwell's laws.
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | possibly vandalism by someone looking to be the next Vindman-
       | esque hero in their discord group
        
       | belorn wrote:
       | So looking at this from a technical point. NIH.gov has three name
       | servers. Each host are still up, but only answering dns on TCP
       | and not UDP. All three are located under the same AS, which
       | implies that there is a single operator responsible. No ipv6.
       | From the outside I can't see any sign that they have delegated
       | operation of either the servers or the service to any external
       | company.
       | 
       | Doing some more looking around, it seems like NIH has a
       | department/group/structure called Center for Information
       | Technology, which is the IT support side of NIH and are the
       | operators for the DNS servers.
        
         | g-clef wrote:
         | I'm going to regret this, I bet, but here we go: Many years ago
         | I was the manager of the team inside NIH/CIT that ran both the
         | border firewalls and the DNS servers in question (to be
         | specific, at the time it was NIH/CIT/DNST/NEB/NSS). Obviously,
         | since I'm not there anymore I don't have any special inside
         | information, but given that the DNS servers were responding to
         | TCP and not UDP during the outage, my bet would be a simple
         | firewall screwup, rather than malice.
         | 
         | Stuff happens - maintenances have unintended consequences,
         | people typo stuff, etc. Don't freak out about every event -
         | save your powder for the real outrages (like 18F).
        
           | bryancoxwell wrote:
           | Editing to remove an unproductive comment.
        
             | zmgsabst wrote:
             | And you believe that DOGE employees are tweaking firewall
             | rules at NIH IT?
        
               | bryancoxwell wrote:
               | Like the vast majority of Americans, I have no idea what
               | DOGE is actually doing.
        
               | brigandish wrote:
               | Then why speculate when we have a real expert responding
               | on the thread?
        
               | dcow wrote:
               | This is exactly how the HN community responded to
               | Twitter, too. The amount of baseless speculation paraded
               | as fact is crazy for a supposedly rationalist community.
        
               | nick__m wrote:
               | HN is not rationalist community, there is a plurality of
               | opinions and it is part of what make this site great.
               | 
               | Another important part is the excellent moderation that
               | try to insure civil discussions.
        
               | bryancoxwell wrote:
               | I've thought about it and you're right, this was just
               | confirmation bias on my part. There is in fact no
               | evidence that DOGE is in any way involved. Apologies.
        
         | raphman wrote:
         | FWIW, nameservers lhcns1.nlm.nih.gov (130.14.55.72) and
         | lhcns2.nlm.nih.gov (130.14.55.128) still resolve nlm.nih.gov
         | subdomains.
        
           | belorn wrote:
           | Interesting, those IP addresses are under a different AS and
           | under a different organization, that of National Library of
           | Medicine. They don't seem to use the IT infrastructure of
           | nih.gov.
        
             | g-clef wrote:
             | Yeaaaahhhh...NLM is/was a special beast inside NIH.
             | 
             | At the time I was there they had a budget to die for, and
             | Pubmed was in the top 300 websites in the world (both are
             | probably still true). NLM pushed so much traffic because of
             | Pubmed that they had their own internet connection to avoid
             | DoS'ing the commodity desktop traffic of the rest of the
             | NIH.
        
           | catlikesshrimp wrote:
           | What am I doing wrong?
           | 
           | I can't ping 130.14.55.128
        
             | edoceo wrote:
             | Maybe those goats don't do ICMP?
        
             | belorn wrote:
             | I can give two tips on how to test this.
             | 
             | The most accessible tool I would recommend is
             | zonemaster.net, a tool developed by AFNIC and The Swedish
             | Internet Foundation. Go to advanced and type in nlm.nih.gov
             | as domain, and then the two nameservers listed above and
             | their ip addresses. Run the test and it will present a
             | status summery of the domain and its name servers. (or just
             | use this link:
             | https://zonemaster.net/en/result/4a7d593dce6e167b)
             | 
             | Alternatively you can use the tool dig command tool which
             | is the industry standard for dns debugging and probing.
             | Installing it on windows/mac is a bit of work, but is very
             | easy and convenient on linux. The command here would be
             | "dig @130.14.55.128 nlm.nih.gov". The @ sign is for saying
             | which nameserver to use, and the last part is the domain
             | name you are looking for.
        
       | jerrygenser wrote:
       | Is this page correct, indicating they are undergoing maintenance?
       | 
       | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/down/
        
         | Maxious wrote:
         | Last modified header of Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:06:32 GMT so I
         | think not - they probably put this html page up one time and
         | redirected requests from other URLs to it and just forgot to
         | remove
         | 
         | Same message is in the internet archive back in 2020
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20201009054447/https://www.ncbi....
        
       | koliber wrote:
       | Move fast and break things.
       | 
       | We don't know the root cause, but the kinds of moves that Musk is
       | pulling are straight from a sabotage manual.
        
       | bleachmix wrote:
       | The US is being liquidated
        
       | possibleworlds wrote:
       | Apologies in advance if this is too off topic, it's something
       | that has been bugging me for a while and I wanted to mention it
       | somewhere.
       | 
       | I occasionally use the Unifi Wifiman app to quickly test my
       | network, even though I don't use Unifi gear.
       | 
       | One reason I like it is as soon as you open the app you see a
       | bunch of latency metrics for various domains.
       | 
       | X is one of the default test domains. I don't know when this
       | happened but x.com does not seem to be running anycast in
       | Australia anymore, I get 110ms latency to x (for many this would
       | be 130 to 160 or higher, my provider uses premium transit). A
       | traceroute shows the server I am hitting is in Japan.
       | 
       | Why? This is highly irregular, I can't imagine any other major
       | website not having a POP in Australia.
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | I don't see PubMed as being down?
       | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=study
        
       | paulnpace wrote:
       | Title is wrong. Sites are reachable, but not resolvable (except
       | for servers still caching, such as 1.1.1.1).
        
       | wileydragonfly wrote:
       | Another cute and recent development is that they've really
       | restricted the hours on the federal payment system, making it
       | difficult for everyone to draw down funds owed. It's all
       | electronic banking, why does it ever have to go offline?
       | 
       | https://pmsapp.psc.gov/pms/app/login
        
       | notorandit wrote:
       | Elon?
        
       | stainablesteel wrote:
       | BLAST is totally outdated, not because it's a bad algorithm but
       | because people should be able to run their own version locally. i
       | find it disappointing that there isn't a lot of innovation in
       | determining protein homogeneity, i thought of multiple ideas when
       | i was doing bioinformatics but never had the time to implement
       | it. slow and bad slackademia strikes again
        
         | colingauvin wrote:
         | How can you claim to have insight into bioinformatics, but not
         | realize the reason BLAST is run in the cloud is that having all
         | the sequence data of all existing organisms would be absolutely
         | massive and exceed the storage capacity of most laptops?
        
       | niklasbuschmann wrote:
       | Fuck Elon Musk
        
       | creatonez wrote:
       | PubMed has been sabotaged.
       | 
       | RFK Jr. and Elon Musk gaining political power will be one of the
       | most challenging disasters the human race has ever encountered.
        
       | acomjean wrote:
       | Seems like it's back. One of my projects when in bioinformatics
       | was making an alternative search with NIH data. They update
       | pubmed yearly with daily updates after that. It really is a great
       | resource.
       | 
       | We link to their pages: eg
       | 
       | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=24827528,%2020832466,%...
        
       | geertj wrote:
       | I will go out on a (small) limb here and note that it really
       | looks like the intention of this submission is is to associate a
       | technical issue with DOGE and find a friendly audience to further
       | a point. Normally a DNS issue of a government site would not be
       | news. Since the submission does not give any evidence or fact, it
       | is lazy in that respect. And if indeed it had an unstated motive
       | (my small limb), you could also say it's disingenuous and
       | brigading. Am I wrong? I would be happy to stand corrected.
        
         | raphman wrote:
         | I submitted this post and can guarantee that it was not my
         | intention to associate this technical issue with DOGE. Quite
         | the opposite: both in this thread and on Bluesky (where a lot
         | of people blame DOGE for 'shutting down PubMed'), I have
         | advocated for Hanlon's razor. My aim was to document that this
         | was just a DNS problem, and to suggest a workaround to affected
         | people.
         | 
         | I actually find it a little bit sad that the DOGE angle is so
         | prominent in this thread.
        
           | geertj wrote:
           | Thank you for clarifying!
        
         | buyucu wrote:
         | well, it looks like Elon's teenage boys fired the wrong people
         | :)
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | Things like PubMed are probably some of best good to the world
       | that did the US in recent years. Especially because of its great
       | openness with widely open API and so...
       | 
       | If it becomes unavailable, my feeling is that the world will
       | really enter in a dark age.
        
       | daveguy wrote:
       | At this point, if this isn't reckless incompetence, it's malice.
        
       | stellababe wrote:
       | It is a DNS issue. Try and change which net you are using. If you
       | are on wifi at home try your cell, however if your home network
       | and cell provider are the same that wont help. A solution is to
       | change which DNS you are using. Its a bit nerdy but actually very
       | easy. Do a search on "change which DNS you are using for
       | browsing" On your computer you can add following to your hosts
       | file located in C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc add this
       | 156.40.212.210 nih.gov 96.17.96.9 www.nih.gov 34.107.134.59
       | pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 130.14.250.10 ftp.wip.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
       | 130.14.250.10 ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 130.14.29.110
       | blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
        
       | stellababe wrote:
       | It is a DNS issue. Try and change which net you are using. If you
       | are on wifi at home try your cell, however if your home network
       | and cell provider are the same that wont help. A solution is to
       | change which DNS you are using. Its a bit nerdy but actually very
       | easy. Do a search on "change which DNS you are using for
       | browsing" On your computer you can add following to your hosts
       | file located in C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc add this
       | 156.40.212.210 nih.gov 96.17.96.9 www.nih.gov 34.107.134.59
       | pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 130.14.250.10 ftp.wip.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
       | 130.14.250.10 ftp.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 130.14.29.110
       | blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | FWIW, I just tried going to pubmed, searching for something, and
       | everything seemed to work. DNS servers go down every now and
       | then. It's always DNS, after all.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | DNS servers may be down temporarily, e.g., NIH is doing
       | maintenance, but this is not making websites unreachable
       | 
       | Perhaps "unreachable" in the title is a figure of speech
       | 
       | I have no problem reaching these websites and can provide IPs to
       | anyone who needs them
       | 
       | For example,
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 23.41.4.71 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 2.22.31.155 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 60.254.143.7 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 95.101.74.96 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 88.221.24.17 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 184.51.148.226 (Akamai)
       | 
       | www.nih.gov 54.235.145.223 (Amazon)
       | 
       | pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 34.107.134.59 (Google)
       | 
       | blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 130.14.29.110
       | 
       | Usage example
       | 
       | echo 130.14.29.110 blast.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov|busybox sed -i -e
       | 1r/dev/stdin -e1N /etc/hosts
       | 
       | echo 34.107.134.59 pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov|busybox sed -i -e
       | 1/r/dev/stdin -e1N /etc/hosts
        
         | catlikesshrimp wrote:
         | 130.14.29.110 redirects me to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
         | 
         | which is unreachable
         | 
         | 23.41.4.71 shows the following text
         | 
         | "Invalid URL The requested URL "[no URL]", is invalid.
         | 
         | Reference #9.47532217.1740935192.27b71986
         | 
         | https://errors.edgesuite.net/9.47532217.1740935192.27b71986"
        
         | hacker934 wrote:
         | I still can't access blast. Am I supposed to put
         | `130.14.29.110` into my web browser?
        
         | chriskanan wrote:
         | The main pubmed website seems to be working for me as well and
         | I'm in upstate NY: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
         | 
         | NIH/NSF pages have always gone down periodically for
         | maintenance or otherwise, where this tends to happen over the
         | weekend. It seems like this reaction by the HN community is a
         | bit hasty. I've been reading HN since 2008 or so, and I feel
         | like the comment quality is not what it once was....
        
       | chriskanan wrote:
       | I'm using PubMed to prepare for a lecture I'm giving on Monday
       | right now and it is working fine:
       | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
        
       | raphman wrote:
       | DNS resolution seems to work again now.
       | https://dnschecker.org/#A/pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, I added [fixed] to the title above. Please let me know if
         | that's not accurate!
        
       | slater wrote:
       | nih.gov seems to be back up.
       | 
       | And if you search for "trans", you get search results, tho
       | unrelated (e.g., "transnational", etc.).
       | 
       | If you search for "transgender", it just redirects you to the
       | homepage.
       | 
       | The cruelty is the point.
        
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