[HN Gopher] A Letter to the American People
___________________________________________________________________
A Letter to the American People
Author : erentz
Score : 432 points
Date : 2025-03-01 22:22 UTC (37 minutes ago)
(HTM) web link (18f.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (18f.org)
| aerokr wrote:
| Hard to see where all this will end.
| pjc50 wrote:
| The budget is the crunch point. They'll pass huge cuts, the
| impact on the economy starts to become real, and people who
| only pay attention to gas prices their 401k will start
| noticing.
|
| Liz Truss effect.
| _heimdall wrote:
| I've yet to be convinced they really are after cutting the
| deficit or paying off debt.
|
| Republicans in congress, many of whom lined up behind Trump,
| are pushing a budget _increase_.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Hence the crunch. They've nobody left to fight but other
| Republicans.
| hammock wrote:
| Who is "they"? It's worth being a little clearer. DOGE
| wanted dividends paid in cash to citizens. The Republican
| House leadership said no
|
| (Why the downvote?)
| cmorgan31 wrote:
| Is there much value in being clearer? The republicans
| vote in lockstep with limited exceptions for vanity
| votes. They haven't deviated from that under the existing
| administration. There's not much value in pretending
| fiscal policy is at the root of their plan. It's fairly
| transparent in its efforts to privatize government to
| enrich those in positions to capitalize on it.
| hammock wrote:
| Yes, in my mind there is. The congress and the executive
| branch are not in exact lockstep, just as they were not
| in Trumps first administration either. There are plenty
| of influential Republicans who push back on one thing or
| another, and prevent or obstruct administration agenda. I
| already gave an example. For those who hate Trump there
| is value in understanding this, as it can be worked with
| cmorgan31 wrote:
| Apologies for asking, what example? There doesn't seem to
| be much obstructing the agenda except Judges.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > I've yet to be convinced they really are after cutting
| the deficit or paying off debt.
|
| Probably because the proposed budget plan will increase the
| deficit. Reducing revenue more than they're reducing
| spending, and reducing spending in areas that brought in
| more revenue than they cost.
|
| And DOGE's savings (the ones that aren't just $0 savings)
| are targeted at things that won't actually improve
| anything. They amount to a drop in the bucket compared to
| where real savings could be had.
| miltonlost wrote:
| You shouldn't be convinced. Republicans are lying when they
| say they want to cut the deficit or pay off the debt. You
| only have to look at the Bush years and Trump's 2016-2020
| administration to see increasing deficits every single
| year, due to tax cuts rather than any sort of spending
| problem. When they are in power, they dismantle good
| government and regulations and redistribute American wealth
| from the poor and middle class up to the wealthy.
|
| https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-
| guide/natio...
|
| The US has a tax problem with billionaires. We don't have a
| spending issue.
| tombert wrote:
| Yeah I stopped believing that during Trump's first term,
| when the conservatives were pushing for billions of dollars
| to be allocated for Trump's stupid wall that he said Mexico
| would pay for, and shut down the government multiple times
| in the process. This, in combination with huge tax cuts for
| their donors, seemingly indicates that they're not terribly
| concerned with the deficit.
| ncallaway wrote:
| They are going to increase the deficit, yes.
|
| But they will do it by passing tax cuts for the rich, and
| cutting services and other spending on the working class to
| the bone.
|
| We're going to see a once-in-a-lifetime (or, luckily for us
| to date, even rarer) looting of the United States Treasury
| and our collective wealth, as well as that of our future
| generations. And, incredibly enough, we fucking voted for
| it!
|
| Anyway, yes, they are going to cut spending, in ways that
| will damage and kill many people. And they'll do it while
| increasing the deficit.
| groestl wrote:
| Civil War
| goatlover wrote:
| No reason for blue states to stay in the union if things
| continue down this path.
| tayo42 wrote:
| I don't think it's that simple Blue states just have bigger
| urban areas. It's an urban rural difference. I don't have
| the numbers off hand but I wouldn't be surprised if NY
| would be a red state if you excluded Manhattan and the
| other boroughs
| ncallaway wrote:
| > I don't have the numbers off hand but I wouldn't be
| surprised if NY would be a red state if you excluded
| Manhattan and the other boroughs
|
| "Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"
| Macha wrote:
| It always surprises me when people's mental model of fair
| say is divided by land area and not by population.
| groestl wrote:
| People are not neatly allocated according to state borders
| (and also not neatly along party lines).
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| I'm all for a civil war after what Trump did to Zelensky.
| Absolutely disgusting.
| huskyr wrote:
| The situation in Hungary in the best case, Russia in the worst.
| guywithahat wrote:
| Hopefully with a balanced budget. At a minimum though, USAID
| shouldn't be funding gender change clinics in India or pride
| parades in Canada, and it's good that we're no longer sending
| them money.
| goatlover wrote:
| Is anyone filing a lawsuit on your behalf?
| fishnchips wrote:
| How long until this is removed from the front page?
| debacle wrote:
| Hopefully soon. These political threads on HN would be welcome
| if they didn't quickly become so toxic.
| fishnchips wrote:
| At which point you're no longer able to bury your head in the
| sand?
| debacle wrote:
| Oh very much to the contrary, I am excited beyond
| comprehension that a fish knife is being taken to the
| federal government, but generally even suggesting such will
| result in being flagged.
|
| We need to cut the bureaucracy to the bone.
| wavefunction wrote:
| vacuous platitudes from the stagnance of swamps
| cmorgan31 wrote:
| You have a stance that would be unfair to ask you to
| explain via HN. Instead I'll just ask, what's a good
| starting point for understanding why you think the
| government needs to be unraveled? Libertarianism or
| something akin to anarcho-capitalism?
| debacle wrote:
| I would say with regards to bureaucracy, no one has put
| it more succinctly than Trotsky, though complaints about
| the bureaucracy harken back to the Ancient Greeks.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Revolution_Betrayed
|
| I have met many, many politicians in my day. 95% of them
| are feckless, spineless, covetous cretins. But the
| bureaucrats are worse.
| jf wrote:
| Then why are you complaining in the comments?
| int_19h wrote:
| How does 18F fit your definition of "bureaucracy",
| though?
| academia_hack wrote:
| Do you think there is a role for the federal government
| to employ engineers for any purpose? 18F was a general
| purpose engineering group that built software for many
| agencies instead of having those agencies pay vast
| amounts of money to Deloitte/Accenture/Booz Allen etc for
| a worse quality product.
| goatlover wrote:
| Why do we need to do this? Let me ask it another way, do
| you think Russia and China are happy with cutting the fed
| bureaucracy to the bone? Or just the Heritage Foundation?
| SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
| Ok however, the blame for toxicity really needs to be
| redirected more towards the people making these decisions and
| less toward the people complaining about them. This is
| destroying people's livelihood and will continue to do so for
| many years to come.
| debacle wrote:
| ...what if it's the right decision? The presumption of
| course is that everything Elon Musk is doing is stupid, but
| what if the guy who has been at the bleeding edge of
| technology for the last two decades isn't a complete idiot
| and is making good decisions on behalf of taxpayers?
| phinnaeus wrote:
| That's a fun fantasy to entertain but his actions over
| the last few years have proven it to be just that.
| tapoxi wrote:
| Why is he making any decisions? He's not a confirmed
| cabinet appointment.
| SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
| Elon. does. not. make. cars. Elon. does. not. build.
| rockets.
|
| His strength is leading and believing people who do.
| Lately however, he's shown he is not mentally fit for
| that role. He's on a crusade more for personal reasons
| than altruism.
|
| His past accomplishments have been seeing opportunities
| in failing products that seemed impossible. We're not
| talking about moonshot startups that really don't affect
| a ton of people if they fail.
|
| We're talking about long established programs that are
| helping people or keeping people alive. He has ZERO
| experience with managing this.
|
| I'm just as in favor of cutting bureaucracy as anyone
| else but I assure you the people making these decisions
| are not interested in cutting bureaucracy, they're the
| ones who created it.
| mlazos wrote:
| Like idk how long I need to hear about all the great
| things in tech he's done when I see his handiwork in an
| actual tech company over at X. Maybe he was a grifter all
| along?
| haswell wrote:
| > _the guy who has been at the bleeding edge of
| technology for the last two decades_
|
| In what way does working on the bleeding edge of
| technology qualify someone to make sweeping decisions in
| a completely unrelated problem domain? Especially when
| those decisions impact literally the entire world?
| ISL wrote:
| Hopefully it won't be at all. Seems pretty relevant to the
| tech-industry if entire departments of competent tech-industry
| folks are getting laid off by the federal government.
|
| While it might be political, it is also economic and directly
| relevant to the hacker/startup ecosystem.
| rogerrogerr wrote:
| A nearby state should take the opportunity to pick these people
| up. They appear to do good work and this is a rare opportunity to
| get a good prebuilt IT team that is willing to work at government
| rates.
| fishnchips wrote:
| I'm sure there are states - perhaps not nearby - that will
| offer exciting opportunities to former civil servants.
| hammock wrote:
| Just about all of the blue states could benefit from a good
| team of engineers imo
| dekhn wrote:
| Would be cool if California hired them all and made a nice
| but inexpensive office building somewhere near housing and
| public transportation and had them help clean up all the
| inefficiency in our state's tech systems.
| hammock wrote:
| Would love that. Does California have housing and public
| transportation though? (Joking)
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| Iran, NK, China would love em!
| fishnchips wrote:
| My point exactly.
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| They could even let then work remotely!
| avmich wrote:
| It's not only government rates. It's government benefits and
| also some less tangible benefits of working for a federal
| government, especially on a project like this. So it should be
| more expensive, but still well, well worth it.
| Terr_ wrote:
| It's depressing to think that this recent half-random half-
| stupid-keyword-revenge firing spree is going to cost much
| more than it ever "saves", sine it'll destroying the
| intangible reputation of the federal government as an
| employer.
|
| There will be some long-term increase in the wages the
| federal government has to offer to get qualified candidates
| away from the private sector.
| avmich wrote:
| These are all consequences of the choices of the American
| people over last years. Choices do have consequences; we
| need to understand them and explain them to others, one way
| or another. Reality is helping us with that.
| hammock wrote:
| Solid point. These workers might find a better fit in the
| private sector these days.
| GeneralMayhem wrote:
| Most of these workers _had_ better-paying jobs in the private
| sector. 18F existed specifically to hire top tech-industry
| talent to work on federal-government modernization and
| efficiency projects. The people there almost certainly took a
| pay cut because they wanted to do with that was good for
| their country.
| thih9 wrote:
| Looks like further states are also interested.
|
| > US intel shows Russia and China are attempting to recruit
| disgruntled federal employees, sources say
|
| > Foreign adversaries including Russia and China have recently
| directed their intelligence services to ramp up recruiting of
| US federal employees working in national security, targeting
| those who have been fired or feel they could be soon, according
| to four people familiar with recent US intelligence on the
| issue and a document reviewed by CNN.
|
| https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/politics/us-intel-russia-...
| fishnchips wrote:
| Why adversaries? Just think of all the big beautiful deals
| you can make with them.
| kadoban wrote:
| Why, Trump doesn't follow orders well enough?
| dj_gitmo wrote:
| This is just vandalism. They don't want the government to
| function at all.
| Apreche wrote:
| Finally. Someone else who gets it. They want to hurt people on
| purpose.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| It's been clear since last year that this administration is a
| government specifically designed to hurt people.
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| Don't put down to stupidity anything that could be proscribed
| as malice (or something to that effect...)
| doitLP wrote:
| The actual quote is the other way around. What evidence
| does the parent have for intentions to harm instead of just
| making stupid cuts, completely inline with their well
| documented history of simplistic, sledgehammer
| solutioneering ?
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| > The actual quote is the other way around.
|
| I am well aware.
|
| > What evidence does the parent have for intentions to
| harm
|
| Just watch/read the news since 2016. Too much to list.
| ajross wrote:
| It's not vandalism either. And the goal isn't that the
| government not function, per se. It's that all government
| function must be for the benefit of the rulers. 18F was
| popular, effective, and not remotely beholden to the Trump
| administration (in fact they were most closely associated with
| the Obama administration). They had to go, not because we want
| them to do a bad job but because them doing a good job
| undermined the administration.
|
| To wit, we already had a word for this: this is a purge.
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| Call it draining the swamp. So we can associate that phrase
| with stupid decisions.
| TrackerFF wrote:
| It's the age old privatization trick:
|
| 1. Defund and cripple gov. services
|
| 2. Point to those, and say "See? it doesn't work. We should get
| private sector to provide those services, as the private sector
| is much cheaper and more efficient."
|
| 3. Hand out contracts to your buddies.
|
| 4. Years later, down the road, another sitting government will
| revert back to the original state - due to the private
| contracts turning out to be much more expensive than
| anticipated, and delivering sub-par service.
|
| 5. Next pro-privatization government is elected, goto step (1).
| adsteel_ wrote:
| I love your optimism about steps 4 and 5.
| dagelf wrote:
| Except that the debt levels are unsustainable, mostly because
| of lack of competition, probably...
| betaby wrote:
| > It's the age old privatization "starve the beast" trick >
| 1. Defund and cripple gov. services
|
| Probably? Government jobs pay below market and was like that
| way before the current president and the company.
|
| > 3. Hand out contracts to your buddies.
|
| I mean, Microsoft is getting about 15B from US government
| alone. Is Microsoft 'buddies'?
|
| I agree in general that those tricks are old. The only
| difference I see today that they are done is less elegant
| way.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| This, but with added cruelty.
|
| The end game seems to be a state of permanent competitive
| insecurity for most of the population, with fatal
| consequences for dissent/bad luck/mistakes, while everything
| is owned and run for the benefit of a handful of aristocrats
| who exist in vapid self-indulgent splendour.
|
| If this seems exaggerated, consider that most people are
| already only a few pay checks and/or a major health crisis
| away from homelessness, bankruptcy, and starvation.
| GeneralMayhem wrote:
| No shit. Vandalizing the government has been the only goal of
| the Republican party since at least 2016. They're just taking
| the masks off now.
| badgersnake wrote:
| Correct, that is exactly what they're trying to do.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Am I being too cynical if I read from this that they were fine
| with it until _they_ got fired?
|
| Honest question. I'm really not sure if I'm just becoming too
| cynical.
| 2big2fail_47 wrote:
| I also got that from the subtext
| dullcrisp wrote:
| Yeah, I don't see that implied anywhere.
| wolfd wrote:
| I think the goal is to not antagonize the administration but
| convince them that they're making a mistake and to reverse it.
| e_y_ wrote:
| Yes. These people are the rank-and-file, doing good engineering
| work until the USDS got hijacked by Elon's crew.
|
| It's also harder to speak out when you're a US government
| employee, but now that they've been fired ...
| GeneralMayhem wrote:
| Yes, you are being too cynical. There is no way that anyone who
| chose to work at 18F - a place that exists to make government
| _actually_ more efficient, that has a reputation for quality
| and execution, and that doesn 't pay nearly as well as the
| private sector - is at all okay with Musk's slash-and-burn
| version of "efficiency". This kind of message exists to point
| out the difference: if you actually care about efficiency and
| good governance, you wouldn't possibly dream of firing these
| people. Hanlon's razor can't even explain it; even if you're an
| absolute moron you wouldn't do it. The only possible
| explanation is actual malice.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| I don't know. I guess it really depends on whether people agree
| that there is a bloat in civil servants.
| ronbenton wrote:
| This org cost $0. They operated with full cost recovery from
| their consulting work with other agencies
| rsoto2 wrote:
| The executive branch is not supposed to choose what to fund,
| and these irresponsible cuts show that there is no real plan to
| maintain a stable government.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It's really about whether people buy into the inane take that
| the other guy is lazy.
|
| Civil servants are easy targets, unless you wear a uniform,
| except if you're a woman.
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| There "is bloat in civil servants" "America has gotten fat"
| etc. sounds like an imprecise, weasly and inflammatory remark.
| It is a handy soundbite that saves people thinking through a
| complex situation and to keep voting against their own
| interests.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Let's just assume that there is bloat in the federal
| government. Assume that, OK? I think I do, actually.
|
| But have you ever seen a new manager come in with a mandate to
| cut costs - a new manager who doesn't bother to listen, but who
| just starts cutting without knowing, learning, or listening?
| Have you ever seen that kind of a disaster? He (it's almost
| always a he) cuts the most expensive people, who turn out to be
| the most talented and the most knowledgeable, and you're left
| with the less talented and less experienced. He cuts the
| departments that have the most people, and those turn out to be
| critically related to revenue. And so on.
|
| The issue isn't whether there need to be cuts. The issue is
| that Musk doesn't know enough to make the right cuts, and he
| isn't even trying to learn.
|
| Even in weight loss surgery, I want an experienced surgeon, not
| the guy from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
| ronbenton wrote:
| The admins will likely down rank this due to "ongoing news" but
| boy this is really important stuff.
| kuduebrahim wrote:
| Renewed my passport, and it was seamless using their portal. I
| was amazed. Are they now going to privatize everything?
| davemp wrote:
| "You will own nothing and be happy." includes public ownership
| through your government I guess.
| adsteel_ wrote:
| Privatizing is a key step on the path to full oligarchy. So I
| would guess that yes.
| blitzar wrote:
| > supporting free tax filing with the IRS
|
| This was their mistake.
| SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
| Follow the money.
| carlgreene wrote:
| It is really really concerning to me how seemingly thoughtless
| these cuts are to the actual stated goals. As stated below, this
| org ran at a $0 cost from full cost recovery through consulting
| services to other orgs. Sure you could argue that's not truly $0,
| it's not. But it is not a bloated cost-center that needs to be
| cut.
|
| Just today on the All In podcast I heard Jason Calcanis suggest
| that the USPS go down to one delivery day per week because no one
| uses it? The unbelievable part is he was genuine and thought it
| was an intelligent thing to say. For reference the USPS delivers
| over 100B, yes billion, parcels per year.
|
| The disconnect between the people who are running the show, and
| those who are in the ear's of those running the show is scary.
| blitzar wrote:
| If you have only just noticed that the stars of the "All In
| Podcast" are intellectually deficient then you haven't been
| paying attention.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Yup. They're as out of touch as any other willfully arrogant
| rich guy. It's pretty depressing because tech billions seem
| to be the king makers now so we gotta listen to what they
| have to say. SMH.
| ncallaway wrote:
| The thing is they aren't intellectually deficient. They are
| deliberately spreading propaganda, to try and make an
| oligarchic takeover of the United States seem more palatable
| to the masses.
|
| They are working to secure the conditions for themselves that
| the French royalty and elite had in 1788, while preventing
| the masses from reacting how they did in France.
|
| So, no, I don't believe that they're intellectually
| deficient. They're just liars.
| iyn wrote:
| I've too been thinking along these lines lately. A month
| ago I would think it's an alarmist/overblown to frame the
| situation in such a way but simply looking at the actions
| and ignoring the "justification"/propaganda must result in
| updating the model - it's indeed oligarchic takeover.
| bearjaws wrote:
| I have been telling a friend of mine for 5 years that these
| guys are not that smart and actually borderline grifters.
|
| He recently admitted he stopped listening 6 months ago due to
| how out of touch they were...
| soared wrote:
| If anyone believes the cuts were for efficiency and cost
| reduction, that belief simply cannot be true anymore.
| dmd wrote:
| The goal is to dismantle the US government.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha.
| ..
| ronbenton wrote:
| The way to square this is to realize that the stated goals are
| not the real goals. USDS and 18F were doing the work that DOGE
| purports to want to do. Less than 2 months into the
| administration, they have been gutted and terminated,
| respectively.
| pton_xd wrote:
| > USDS and 18F were doing the work that DOGE purports to want
| to do.
|
| The national debt is increasing something like 1 trillion!
| every 3 months. So what were these agencies doing, exactly?
| It's not clear that DOGE will do any better, though.
| api wrote:
| That's mostly from benefits, defense, unfunded tax cuts,
| and entitlements, not the type of spending DOGE claims to
| be addressing. Go look at a broad summary of Federal
| spending categories.
| exe34 wrote:
| sounds like something for Congress to work through isn't
| it?
| ronbenton wrote:
| They both brought in great private industry talent to make
| digital services better. 18F in particular did this in a
| cost-recoverable way. So killing 18F saves literally $0
| dekhn wrote:
| USDS and 18F took people with experience in industry who
| were also politically savvy, and placed them where they
| could help the existing government and their contractors
| (which has grown absolutely terrible at building things)
| cut costs while increasing service.
|
| DOGE will do worse, in service of bringing about the
| oligarchy.
| woah wrote:
| I would love to only receive one delivery of junk mail per week
| kristjansson wrote:
| Yes of course, your personal, subjective experience of the
| USPS is exactly and entirely representative of everyone's
| experience and use of the USPS.
| umanwizard wrote:
| The point of the cuts is not cost reduction. It's to punish the
| federal bureaucracy, which the populist right perceives as
| ideologically opposed to themselves.
| rayiner wrote:
| It's not perception. They literally declared "Resistance" to
| Trump within moments of his being inaugurated in 2017:
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/resistance-from-
| with...
|
| The premise of creating the independent civil service in the
| 20th century was that it's neutral machinery that doesn't
| have its own opinions. That's no longer the case, if it ever
| was true.
| mullingitover wrote:
| > Jason Calcanis suggest that the USPS go down to one delivery
| day per week because no one uses it
|
| It seems like there are two possible reasons he could've made a
| statement like this:
|
| - He is utterly detached from reality and how the world works,
| shocking for someone who is at such an elevated position in
| industry. Borderline disabled.
|
| - He is stating this dishonestly, not because he believes it
| but to signal to other right-wing reactionary zealots in his
| peer group that he would support dismantling the most critical
| institutions in his society in order to enrich members of his
| tiny class at the expense of everyone else.
|
| I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.
| itsanaccount wrote:
| You ever wonder if it is a specific ...I'll call it
| "business" culture for lack of a better term, like the one
| around posting on this site, that leads you to have to give
| credit to these people presuming good faith?
|
| Its almost like to exist in the tech space is to cultivate an
| intentional naivety about how power works and who has it that
| is being exploited to run cover as truly bad actors
| accomplish their goals.
| miltonlost wrote:
| Okay, now that these are clearly against the stated goals, you
| must then ask and answer for yourself: what are DOGE's unstated
| goals?
|
| By looking at Musk's tweets about it being a "far-left" group
| (plus his two Nazi salutes) and DOGE's emphasis on cutting
| DEI/sexual and racial minority programs, the unstated goals are
| clear and loud. If you don't look for the unstated goals and
| only listen to people's words rather than their actions, you're
| going to be blindsided by a lot more cruelty and not see it
| coming.
| gkoberger wrote:
| The goal isn't to make financial cuts. If it was... well, I bet
| 18f easily pays for itself in shared Eng resources, reduced
| support and similar things.
|
| The goal is to destroy the US government, so it can be
| privatized and sold off. Same as what happened in Russia.
| geoka9 wrote:
| The goal is to dismantle the system (of checks and balances)
| so that it's not in the way of becoming an authoritarian
| regime. When this is your goal, you realize Russia is not
| your enemy, it's your biggest ally.
| bearjaws wrote:
| Don't forget the nice side effect of destroying industries
| that are regulating Elon.
| api wrote:
| Not broadly a fan of what this admin is doing, but re: USPS: my
| family gets one, maybe two important pieces of mail a year. We
| get several pieces of worthless junk mail every day. Virtually
| everything the USPS delivers goes instantly into the trash.
|
| The same is true for my company. In fact I'm not sure we
| received one piece of physical mail in the past year of any
| consequence.
|
| Obviously this isn't true for everyone, but _some_ reduction in
| frequency of delivery could save a lot of money. Either that or
| raise the cost and kill junk mail.
| Eisenstein wrote:
| Do you think that the USPS pays deliver junk mail?
| rkagerer wrote:
| Do you live in a rural or urban area? How many Amazon
| packages do you get, and items from other carriers?
| matthewdgreen wrote:
| If the USPS is delivering junk mail below the cost of
| delivery, they should immediately stop that. But I doubt
| that's true. I don't like junk mail one bit, but it's
| obviously a profit center.
| robmerki wrote:
| My most prominent memory of Jason was seeing him park his Tesla
| in the "no parking" zone in front of the building where his
| startup conference was happening. My boss at the time thought
| it was "so badass", but it was so obviously an arrogant elitist
| LARP by an insecure man.
|
| The older I get, the more I see through this awful behavior.
| furyofantares wrote:
| > For reference the USPS delivers over 100B, yes billion,
| parcels per year.
|
| This must be pieces of mail per year? To me "parcel" means more
| like a package.
|
| Some web searching confirms this and also says about half of
| that is marketing mail. And I don't know about you, but
| excluding marketing mail, I'd say about 90% of the remainder
| still goes directly in the bin for me. And even though I open
| probably less than 5% of what is sent to me, maybe less than
| 1%, STILL much of that could have been an email.
|
| I don't doubt the USPS provides a whole lot of value but that
| 100B number looks like it includes a whole lot of negative,
| zero, or low value items.
| shermantanktop wrote:
| Is the USPS creating that junk mail? Or are they just
| delivering it?
|
| Put another way, if you kill the USPS, don't you think that
| junk mail will still find a way to get to you?
| usaphp wrote:
| > For reference the USPS delivers over 100B, yes billion,
| parcels per year.
|
| 90% of my mail lately is spam coupons and credit card offers.
| jltsiren wrote:
| If you have dealt with countries like Russia, one idea that can
| be useful for understanding them is oligarchic capitalism. That
| the purpose of the economy is to benefit the elites. That the
| share of wealth that goes to the common people is an overhead
| necessary to keep the system running. Which, like all
| overheads, should be kept to a reasonable minimum.
|
| Oligarchic societies do not try to maximize the overall
| economy. They try to maximize the wealth the elites can
| extract. If there is an alternative where the overall economy
| is 2x bigger but the elites receive 10% less in absolute terms,
| it's clearly a worse outcome from their perspective.
|
| From that perspective, government services should not be
| evaluated based on their outputs or their impact on government
| efficiency or economic growth. They should be evaluated based
| on their impact on the elites. If they don't benefit the
| elites, they are overhead that can be cut if necessary.
|
| Oligarchs do not care about the economy in the sense it is
| traditionally understood in the West.
| derektank wrote:
| As someone that's very invested in seeing the federal government
| adopt and integrate information technology to make the government
| more transparent, effective, and, yes, efficient, this is nothing
| short of an incredible bummer.
|
| It feels like we're setting the clock back a decade at a time
| when trust in institutions is already at a nadir and we're facing
| global threats that only the federal government has the capacity
| to tackle. I can only hope civil society is able to pick up the
| slack in the short term and future administrations are able to
| execute better.
| sho_hn wrote:
| Honestly, for me it's a huge silver lining that this
| generation's descent into facism is as bumbling, incompetent
| and ineffectual as it is proving so far. We might learn the
| lesson this time before we actually do tip into world wars and
| genocide, purely by the price tag of the metaphorical egg.
| fishnchips wrote:
| Both Mussolini and Hitler were seen as bumbling fools by most
| of their contemporaries. Before they seized power, that is.
| sho_hn wrote:
| You are correct, and this is indeed a valuable lesson:
| https://archive.is/xh2Ci
|
| I'm still sticking to the comment, even in awareness of
| history and having entertained the comparison. Let's hope
| I'm not proven wrong.
| samwillis wrote:
| I'm not American, but I'm very aware of the impact 18f has had
| from seeing the many posts on here of their work over the years:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?q=18f
|
| I'm also aware of at least a handful of hacker new members, and
| people I've followed, who took time out of their carriers to do a
| "tour of duty" at 18f.
|
| I feel for all today, you were doing good work!
| dekhn wrote:
| It's pretty clear that everything Elon claimed about his
| improvements was a complete and total lie, and that his real goal
| was the seize the technological workings of the government, which
| simplifies implementing their agenda.
|
| We will be lucky if we, as a nation, survive the Trump
| administration without turning into a fascist, authoritarian
| state, with little to no scientific credibility, and a pariah
| state like North Korea.
|
| I have noticed that a number of conservative organizations are
| starting to be affected by this and speaking up, although
| Congress and the Judiciary are clearly either afraid, or
| supportive of these actions. From what I can tell, the only
| remaining response is truly large scale, well-organized peaceful
| protest, which is risky because a small number of bad actors
| could mess up a peaceful protest and give Trump all the excuses
| he wants to bring out the US military for a violent response to
| innocent protestors.
| kklisura wrote:
| > The billionaire [Elon Musk] wrote on his social media platform
| X that 18F and TTS had been "deleted" weeks ago, re-posting
| another account that called the 18F a "far left government
| computer office" and pointed to its work on the IRS' free tax
| filing system, Direct File. [1]
|
| [1] https://www.nextgov.com/people/2025/03/gsa-
| eliminates-18f/40...
| goatlover wrote:
| Free tax filing is far leftist? My god these people are beyond
| the pale.
| lxe wrote:
| They open sourced quite a few guides, resources and standards
| over the years. I think they did a lot of design and i18n work
| like the US web design guidelines. Also... don't they own
| login.gov?
|
| https://github.com/orgs/18F/repositories
| ISL wrote:
| "But we came to the government to fix things. And we're not done
| with this work yet."
|
| Thank you, 18F.
| curiousDog wrote:
| All of this seems like deliberate destruction of America from the
| inside out by an ayn-rand worshipping, billionaire afrikaaner
| cabal (David Sacks, Elon Musk, roelof botha etc). Thoughtless and
| mindless cuts
| hamandcheese wrote:
| > Just yesterday we were working on important projects, including
| improving access to weather data with NOAA, making it easier and
| faster to get a passport with the Department of State, supporting
| free tax filing with the IRS
|
| I think this answers the question of "why".
| iyn wrote:
| What's happening is a destruction of institutions, under the
| guise of efficiency.
|
| If your goal was to establish authoritarian system and/or
| oligarchy in the US within a year and without firing any bullets,
| what would you do differently to what's happening now? Honest
| question I've been thinking about lately. My current answer is
| that the diff is not that big.
|
| Yes, there's much to be done about efficiency/productivity on the
| government part, but this is not what's being done.
|
| I am not sure if Elon is deliberate (similar to how "X is about
| free speech", DOGE is about "government efficiency" i.e. fake
| ideology to push some agenda) or an useful idiot (believes that
| all he's doing is improving efficiency, without realizing the
| consequences of destroying the institutions), but that's not the
| main point. The point is that fundamental institutions are being
| destroyed very, very quickly, without real oversight. This has
| important and negative consequences to democracy.
| wavefunction wrote:
| elon needs a new government teat
| soared wrote:
| A group of very smart people who are highly knowledgeable about
| some governments systems were fired overnight. I wonder if any
| one of them will be disgruntled and take some sort of action.
| sirolimus wrote:
| The US is a disgrace. Democrats, please save the country
| coldpie wrote:
| 2016-2020 was the wakeup call. We got Biden instead. Dems won't
| be fixing this problem.
| sirolimus wrote:
| Who else then? Republicans?
| coldpie wrote:
| Nope. There is no opposition. The US is a single party
| state now, like Russia and China.
| dekhn wrote:
| It won't happen but I think a centrist party which took the
| best from Republican and Democrat platforms and completely
| avoided histrionics, focusing entirely on rational
| solutions to our ongoing problems, could be very attractive
| to a wide range of voters in the US.
| aqueueaqueue wrote:
| I am guessing that ship sailed for at least 2 years. Probably
| more as people voted for this with open eyes so the people
| probably approve. Unless the economy tanks this year.
| Group_B wrote:
| pain...
| rayiner wrote:
| I'm sure that the folks whose government money creating a bot to
| hassle people for saying "ghetto" is totally non-partisan and
| will work hard implementing Trump's agenda:
| https://github.com/18F/charlie/blob/main/InclusionBot.md
| cluckindan wrote:
| Dear America,
|
| you are under attack from your own government.
| matt-p wrote:
| What a circus.
| brapfarm wrote:
| Are these firings Elon Musk's doing? It sounds like his sort of
| incompetent approach to running things. Or rather, running them
| to the ground.
| reaperducer wrote:
| Finally, a GoFundMe to which I would contribute.
|
| If anyone hears of one, please post here.
| Moto7451 wrote:
| I'm expecting this to not last the weekend so here's an archive
| link. https://archive.is/xrGV2
| ww520 wrote:
| It's painful to see people doing real work get canned. It sounds
| like the unsustainable national debt has forced a cut across the
| board. Each department will find some organization to cut. The
| least politically connected groups will be cut.
|
| The cuts are painful, but we simply don't have the money. In fact
| we are way deep in the hole.
| nodesocket wrote:
| It's seems that DOGE and 18f had an overlap. While 18f's mission
| was not explicit reduction of waste, fraud, and government abuse;
| technology is the primary means of efficiency. Seems a better
| solution would have, absorb a portion of 18f (who wanted to and
| were qualified) into DOGE.
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