[HN Gopher] What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip
       reports
        
       Author : cainxinth
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2025-02-25 12:27 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (themicrodose.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (themicrodose.substack.com)
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | I tried 2C-E a couple times a long time ago. I think it was a
       | relatively low dose. It was really interesting how mentally I
       | felt mostly sober. But the visuals were so intense I got motion
       | sick. It started out with tracers as I waved my hand. The
       | textured paint on the walls looked extra 3D and the walls started
       | to breath. The swirly pattern on the bathroom linoleum looked
       | like chocolate milk. My posters turned into cartoons. And when it
       | was all overwhelming and the motion sickness really kicked in, I
       | closed my eyes and was greeted by fractal machines that built the
       | molecules of the world.
       | 
       | I don't recall any really profound thoughts, introspection, or
       | feelings of intoxication. Which was a strange difference to me
       | compared to things like 4-ACO-DMT and LSD, but I liked it.
        
         | Euphorbium wrote:
         | I dont like visual only drugs. That is like watching a
         | screensaver for a few hours.
        
         | chinabison wrote:
         | Did you also get the uncomfortable bodyload that 2C-E is
         | notorious for?
        
           | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
           | Yeah, I think it didn't come on for a while. I spent probably
           | the 2nd half of my trips just laying down watching the closed
           | eye visuals because my stomach hurts and I felt nauseated
           | when I walked around or looked at stuff for too long.
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | 2C-B was more my thing (when I could get it).
         | 
         | Fast and powerful. Like LSD but without the 12 hour trip plus
         | body aches.
        
           | mathieuh wrote:
           | 2C-B never had any headspace effects for me except in very
           | high insufflated doses (and even then it was minimal), taking
           | normal doses orally would just give me a couple of hours of
           | visuals. For me it was nothing like LSD in terms of
           | headspace.
        
             | throwaway183785 wrote:
             | Agree - my experience with 2C-B was that it was almost
             | entirely visual (tracers and such), with a very subtle mood
             | lift, akin to very weak MDMA.
             | 
             | 2C-E on the other hand sent me to some extremely trippy
             | places. 2C-P is a fascinating one to read about too (though
             | I've never tried it.)
        
             | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
             | I only ever vaporised 2C-B. usually I would get a full
             | intense trip that lasts about 30 minutes and then very
             | little after effects. A hit was also about $10 at the time
             | (decades ago). Quality was good considering I was at one
             | the top chemical engineering schools in the world.
        
       | NickC25 wrote:
       | Have no idea what variant of LSD I last consumed, but I remember
       | some deep feelings of profound thoughts and self-reflection quite
       | almost instantly when the stuff "hit" (maybe 30-45 minutes after
       | ingestion), I was still cognizant enough to be able to write it
       | all down. Some of what I wrote was indeed stuff I needed to work
       | on in my own life and it was pretty helpful.
       | 
       | I then spent the next like 12 hours on my couch realizing that
       | the entire concept of time is a manmade construct that is
       | absolutely meaningless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of the
       | universe. All this while watching golf on TV (which followed a
       | golfer who posted the lowest final round score ever at a major).
       | I have no idea how the TV turned on, and why I didn't turn it
       | off.
       | 
       | LSD is fucking wild.
        
         | BobbyTables2 wrote:
         | I think watching golf on TV would make time seem pretty
         | meaningless for a lot of people too!
        
           | uwagar wrote:
           | i like the quiet vibes in general
        
         | westmeal wrote:
         | Sometimes it just hits in such a way that you have no idea wtf
         | is happening. One time I couldn't read because letters just
         | didn't have meaning any more. It looked like alien unicode
         | characters or some shit.
        
           | guardian5x wrote:
           | Isn't that kinda scary? I mean when some parts of your brains
           | don't work or not work properly?
        
             | Traubenfuchs wrote:
             | Depends on your attitude.
             | 
             | I consider life and reality incredibly, painfully boring.
             | 
             | That's why I LOVE alternate states of mind, even if they
             | are scary.
             | 
             | Nothing excites me more than the prospect of feeling thing
             | and seeing things I have not experienced before.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | > Nothing excites me more than the prospect of feeling
               | thing and seeing things I have not experienced before.
               | 
               | absolutely same
        
               | monktastic1 wrote:
               | > I consider life and reality incredibly, painfully
               | boring.
               | 
               | Interesting. The main benefit I've gotten from
               | psychedelics (mostly mushrooms) is that all of life /
               | reality is impossibly miraculous -- even, paradoxically,
               | when it seems dreadfully boring. And also that I've
               | somehow always known this, even when it feels like I've
               | forgotten. It's always right there, just waiting (
               | _begging_ ) to be noticed. It's the ultimate cosmic joke.
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | +1 Insightful
               | 
               | Also, your website (https://www.lifeismiraculous.org) is
               | awesome. Echoes of Bertrand Tolle and Alan Watts. Thanks
               | for publishing it and putting it in your profile!
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | This framing never made much sense to me. It's incredible
               | to be alive at all of course, but miraculous compared to
               | what? I've found it best in these situations to quietly
               | appreciate rather than trying to reify some ontology for
               | contemplation--which is, after all, a distraction from
               | appreciation itself in the moment, something largely akin
               | to meditation.
               | 
               | The easiest way to experience some of the feelings you
               | get from tripping is, in fact, meditation. The LSD mostly
               | just forces you to be more honest with yourself by
               | smashing barriers you would normally dismantle through
               | allowing your mind to rest.
               | 
               | Granted, I've never experienced anything like eg a
               | blurring of the sense of self with meditation.
               | Theoretically it's possible. Maybe I'm just too content
               | with myself to pursue it.
        
               | kylebenzle wrote:
               | A lot of people are well aware of how much they are
               | deluding themselves (into thinking they are happy and
               | deserve to be so) that they should avoid psychedelics at
               | all costs. It's like their ego knows it's in danger.
        
             | fullstick wrote:
             | It's only scary if you try to hard to hold on. Relax and
             | float down stream... In the moment, it does not feel like
             | your brain is not working properly. I tend to feel more
             | clearheaded (even when confused) than I am on alcohol.
        
               | aqueueaqueue wrote:
               | I like the phrase "on alcohol". Indeed it is also a
               | psychoactive drug.
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | It being scary is kind of the point. Or rather, if you're
             | going to do LSD, you need to be in the mindset that 1) this
             | is temporary, and you'll feel fine tomorrow, and 2) the
             | experience you're about to have will be extraordinarily
             | novel and impossible to fully describe, even after having
             | experienced it. It's an intense hallucinogenic, and is the
             | most potent mind altering substance that we know of. It's
             | also one of the safer ones, if you've done your research
             | and aren't predisposed to a certain category of mental
             | illnesses (schizophrenia, bipolar, anxiety).
             | 
             | Knowing that it's temporary is the best tether to this
             | world that keeps me from having a bad trip, if it feels
             | like that could happen. As others have said, an LSD trip is
             | going to take you places you might not expect to end up.
             | Meditation can be good preparation leading up to a trip.
             | 
             | LSD is one of those chemicals that gives you a glimpse at
             | what it's like to process the world with a completely
             | different category of consciousness.
        
               | uwagar wrote:
               | a category of consciousness AI cant reach.
        
               | erikerikson wrote:
               | On what basis are you comparing?
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | what basis would you recommend? Given the rate that
               | chatbots engaging in making stuff up you can't just ask
               | them. At least as humans we can take the substance
               | ourselves to verify there's something happening. I think
               | there will always be an insurmountable barrier to
               | deciding if computers can be conscious, at least in our
               | lifetimes. We're not even sure other humans experience
               | similar consciousness.
        
               | erikerikson wrote:
               | I didn't make the claim and have no interest in defending
               | or building it.
               | 
               | FWIW I appreciate the epistemic humility.
        
               | coffeebeqn wrote:
               | Wouldn't we be able to give AI all kinds of random bytes
               | and code eventually to make them "trip"? Much easier then
               | engineering novel psychedelics
        
               | erikerikson wrote:
               | I suppose we could simulate tripping in that fashion but
               | it would seem easier to affect a distributed activation
               | function or other parameter to the simulation.
               | 
               | Not sure why you're asking me.
        
               | ForTheKidz wrote:
               | Microdosing (or rather 1/4-1/10th a normal dose) works
               | quite well. You get much of the mental flexibility
               | without serious disorientation and serious physical
               | reaction (jitteriness and nausea, which is also why I
               | avoid shrooms--too physical).
               | 
               | It's also worth noting LSD is quite pleasant on the come
               | down. You're just very comfortable and calm. Typically
               | self-soothing through the angst of the first half of the
               | trip is straightforward. Also a great reason to be in
               | good mental health before hand.... if you're not prepared
               | to face something you've been avoiding or deluding
               | yourself through, LSD is a very, very bad choice.
        
             | westmeal wrote:
             | Nope, but as others have said - you must commit and realize
             | that once you dose you're in for whatever it is. You must
             | assure yourself that this is temporary and will pass. As a
             | matter in fact our lives are much the same, nothing ever
             | lasts forever. Just gotta roll with it.
             | 
             | Anyway, it's not that the brain isn't working properly it's
             | just that the brain is working differently. That's how I
             | see it.
        
             | Henchman21 wrote:
             | Whose to say my brain works properly to begin with? We live
             | in a collective delusion and any time I can see outside the
             | delusion, sign me up.
        
             | scarecrowbob wrote:
             | HAving had a similar experience, I have found it somewhat
             | useful.
             | 
             | I've often found that my brain hasn't been working or
             | working properly, and it's good to know that a) that
             | happens, b) it can be transitory and c) even when it feels
             | like it's working, I might still be fooled.
             | 
             | As I grow older, it's been a lot more difficult speak in
             | absolutes.
             | 
             | At the same time, the contrast to observing when my brain
             | actually -does- do something useful has also been useful
             | and I have felt a lot better about leaning into that
             | feeling.
             | 
             | This culture is insane and will gaslight the hell out of
             | you, as will many of its constitutive members, so having
             | some data on what it feels like to vividly hallucinate
             | versus to have a different view on something has been very
             | validating.
             | 
             | I am sure that sounds dumb, and that there are plenty of
             | folks (especially on this social media forum) who would say
             | that I am probably worse off for feeling like I have a
             | better handle on "correct" and "incorrect", but hey, "enjoy
             | the water, boys".
        
             | aqueueaqueue wrote:
             | I am not pro LSD (I don't think I'll ever try this or
             | similar).
             | 
             | But I would say sleep is similar in this regard especially
             | dreams.
        
           | Traubenfuchs wrote:
           | > It looked like alien unicode characters or some shit.
           | 
           | That's how my iPhone keyboard looked when I took a moderate
           | amount of shrooms. It was weird, I could still think and talk
           | coherently, but the keyboard was an incrophensible,
           | vibrating, round, green-energy-sparks-decorated mess.
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | Heh, yes I remember something similar with an old Nokia.
        
             | coffeebeqn wrote:
             | That happened to me as well. Pretty cool effect. I also
             | remember trying to order "human food" off my phone but
             | couldn't figure out what anything on the app was
        
         | ctrlp wrote:
         | That sounds pretty amazing. What a metaphor that is. Hope you
         | fully recovered but kept some valuable mental souvenirs from
         | your trip. I do think people underestimate the dangers of LSD.
         | It's amazing but I've known people who permanently injured
         | their cognitive capacities using it.
        
         | raducu wrote:
         | > deep feelings of profound thoughts.
         | 
         | I remember dreaming about profound answers and equations about
         | everything and being extatic in my dreams in uni.
         | 
         | Then I woke up and wrote down what I dreamt and realize it was
         | just garbage :).
         | 
         | The same this one time I was traveling with friends and bought
         | some very dubious hashish and smoked it and I got incredible
         | visuals where I could see, open-eye a matrix of videos starting
         | from a common theme and all evolving differently. I could see
         | visual kernels of ideas and how they all worked together.
         | 
         | But at that time I was very interested in variational
         | autoencoders, so after the effects wore off, I realized the
         | experience was just like the deep realization of the dreams --
         | utterly meningless and just a hallucination that felt profound
         | in the moment.
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | I had similar experiences the first time I tried a
           | recreational drug - it was with my father and we watched Nova
           | on PBS. We spent hours convinced we had novel theories on
           | spacetime and wrote them down, believing we had stumbled upon
           | revolutionary scientific insight.
           | 
           | When we reviewed them in the morning they were absolute
           | nonsense!
        
             | anonym29 wrote:
             | I believe it is a misapplication of entheogens to try
             | solving "IQ problems" with them. I've found them to be
             | incredibly valuable for personal development and solving
             | "EQ problems" - the kind that my sober mind didn't
             | ordinarily process much at all by default, being on the
             | autism spectrum. Psychedelics for me allowed me to become
             | intensely aware and attuned to the emotional and
             | psychological state of others and allows me to imagine
             | myself in their shoes and empathize with their struggles in
             | life (even if entirely unrelated to anything I've ever
             | personally experienced). This altered state of mind
             | introduced me to an entirely new way of thinking that had
             | led to me being a kinder, more compassionate, more
             | considerate, more socially capable person in a persistent,
             | lasting way that has long outlived the psychoactive effects
             | of the psychedelics.
             | 
             | Psychedelic culture has this notion of "reintegration",
             | where in the week(s) after a trip it can take some time to
             | fully internalize the epiphanies and lessons from the trip.
             | During my first reintegration, I realized that I kinda used
             | to interact with everyone in the world in a manner roughly
             | analogous to really advanced NPCs in a role playing game I
             | was forced into called life, and had no realization that I
             | was doing this and lacked full appreciation for the depth
             | of other people as human beings for the first quarter
             | century and change of my life.
             | 
             | Accordingly, I see psychedelics as a profound tool of
             | interpersonal growth and development, but never the kind of
             | thing I'd take to try solving a vexing technical problem -
             | that's a different job that takes a different tool.
             | 
             | PS to anyone else reading: this should not be taken as an
             | endorsement or recommendation for anyone to attempt to
             | procure and use psychedelics. There are serious mental
             | health risks involved for vulnerable populations, risks of
             | contaminated or laced products if procured from
             | untrustworthy or disreputable sources, and more. If you are
             | unsure of whether you're a part of certain vulnerable
             | populations, I'd urge you to consult with a qualified,
             | licensed therapist or mental healthcare provider to get a
             | less-biased second opinion on whether or not you're at
             | elevated risk, just to be sure, but remember this is just
             | one of several risks.
        
           | coffeebeqn wrote:
           | I had to throw out the notes I had taken while on shrooms
           | because they literally looked like I had lost my mind if
           | someone had seen them
        
           | animal_spirits wrote:
           | The brain can mimic the _feeling_ of having had an incredible
           | idea when in reality nothing actually incredible or mind
           | opening has been understood. But some people do indeed have
           | deep realizations, while others just deeply feel the feeling
           | of having had a deep realizations, if that makes sense.
        
         | nthingtohide wrote:
         | Artists put themselves through various experiences (sometimes
         | extreme) to portray the ineffable through abstract art. Works
         | at both personal and societal level
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/A9gYgHkizSI
        
         | pockmarked19 wrote:
         | > entire concept of time
         | 
         | "Entire" concept is stretching it, causality and entropy are
         | not man made.
         | 
         | If you want to look at ideas people made up that have way too
         | much influence on our lives, you need look no further than your
         | wallet.
        
           | y33t wrote:
           | I'd say causality and entropy are contingent on the (very
           | compelling) assumption that time is real. We could be
           | Boltzmann Brains, or something even weirder. Do I believe
           | that the world is terribly different from what it appears to
           | be? No, but ultimately our perceptions of the world are
           | merely representation held in our minds.
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | We could be Boltzmann Brains on drugs.
             | 
             | Or worse.
             | 
             | Presumably the probability of a brain appearing as a
             | disordered psychiatric monster is far higher than the
             | probability of arriving as an Earth-normal tenured
             | cosmologist.
        
           | whatnow37373 wrote:
           | > causality and entropy are not man made
           | 
           | Given that we fundamentally depend on our own, very human,
           | sensory and cognitive apparatus to make any kind of judgement
           | I have a hard time imagining a proof or even a convincing
           | argument of this without falling back on "it's obvious"
           | (etc).
           | 
           | Yes, I am being obtuse. Sorry about that. Just for the
           | record.
        
           | fooker wrote:
           | If you could prove the bit about causality you'll get a Nobel
           | prize or two.
           | 
           | As that would definitively declare that there's no going back
           | in time, there's no negative mass, and perhaps
           | philosophically--theres no free will.
        
           | _hark wrote:
           | Entropy is not absolute!
           | 
           | The entropy of some data is well-defined with respect to a
           | model, but the model choice is free. I.e. different models
           | will assign different entropy to the same data.
           | 
           | And how do we choose a model...? Well, formally by minimizing
           | the information needed to describe both the model and data
           | (the sum of model complexity and data entropy under the
           | model) [1]
           | 
           | You might argue that's all too information-theoretic and in
           | _physics_ there simply is an objective count of the state-
           | space, a maximum entropy, and so on. Alas, there is not even
           | general consensus on whether there is a locally finite number
           | of degrees of freedom.
           | 
           | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_description_length
        
           | viccis wrote:
           | The entire concept of causality and entropy as something that
           | happens in a linear progression at approximately the same
           | rate is 100% a concept that is "made up" insofar as it is, as
           | Kant would put it, the process of apprehending a sequence of
           | sensibilities into a schematized understanding of the objects
           | around us. Cause and effect are real (and don't require
           | empirical understanding), but only viewing objects in the
           | space around us as partial impressions that are contingent on
           | that specific time is the "man made" part of subjectivity.
           | 
           | So a better way to put it is that time is real, but only as
           | it relates to our perception. And that is always subjectively
           | contingent. The concept of "time" outside of any subjective
           | perception doesn't really make sense. Even if you're purely
           | limiting it to "causality", then you're going to run into a
           | host of issues if you think you can order causal interactions
           | into a linear "time"line.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | This is baffling to me. I recall this comment from the last
         | week but it currently reads "4 hours ago". Algolia also shows
         | it posted "4 days ago". Some sort of reposting functionality?
         | 
         | Considering the topic, it made me consider if I was having
         | intense deja vu.
        
           | chippy wrote:
           | this was posted a few days ago. Submissions get second
           | chances and their timestamps are updated.
           | 
           | this says 4 days ago:
           | 
           | https://hn.algolia.com/?query=What%20do%20people%20see%20whe.
           | ..
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | I didn't realize they rewrite comment timestamps.
        
         | ProjectArcturis wrote:
         | There aren't really "varieties" of LSD. There's one chemical
         | structure that is LSD. There are a couple related chemicals
         | that are also hallucinogenic (e.g. LSA), but they have much
         | lower potency. Having even 50% of a standard LSD dose
         | contaminated with these related chemicals would really just
         | feel like weak (low dose) LSD. Mindset, setting, and dose are
         | the main variables that determine the trip experience.
        
           | sleepybrett wrote:
           | It depends on your source. There are several psychedelics
           | that get sold as others because their effects are very
           | similar. A little harder to do with LSD as it's dosing is so
           | tiny. But there are apparently some:
           | 
           | https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1485592.
           | ..
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | > I then spent the next like 12 hours on my couch realizing
         | that the entire concept of time is a manmade construct that is
         | absolutely meaningless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of
         | the universe.
         | 
         | People knew this already without taking LSD.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9Tc9eRUzU
         | 
         | But try having LSD in your brain at random moments and you
         | never know when it is going to happen. That is my life with a
         | mental illness.
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | Does relativity mean that time is not just a human construct?
         | It's hard to believe it is irrelevant when we have discovered
         | special behaviors that are part the fabric of reality.
        
         | Uptrenda wrote:
         | When I see posts like this I wonder if taking these drugs
         | permanently alters ones conception of reality whether a person
         | wants that or not. For example, if a person who has never taken
         | LSD before reads the sentence "the entire concept of time is
         | manmade [...]" they take that as kind of an abstract
         | philosophy. The kind where someone might chuckle, roll their
         | eyes, and say "yeah, sure thing man". But there's a huge
         | difference between that and experiencing it, and then
         | subsequently knowing it.
         | 
         | The realizations you get on LSD are absurd. Yet, can end up
         | being true statements that would almost never be believed
         | otherwise. You could probably end up with the same conclusions
         | if you thought about these related topics enough. But that
         | would end up being similar to some beliefs talked about in
         | certain spiritual practices. So its almost like if you take LSD
         | you end up downloading that knowledge instantly which is
         | bizarre to think about.
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | > "the entire concept of time is manmade [...]" they take
           | that as kind of an abstract philosophy. The kind where
           | someone might chuckle, roll their eyes, and say "yeah, sure
           | thing man".
           | 
           | Probably every teenager with enough free time to think has
           | had this realization. The trick is what do you do about it?
           | 
           | Manmade or not, time is a _useful_ construct. You might as
           | well use it. Even if deep down you know it's just a
           | convention, you still gotta live in society and coordinate
           | with others. A shared understanding of time makes this
           | easier.
        
       | superb-owl wrote:
       | I had great plans to feed Erowid's database through Claude to get
       | a better classification of drug phenomenology. Sadly they have
       | explicitly disallowed the feeding of Erowid reports into LLMs:
       | https://erowid.org/experiences/email_warning.php
       | 
       | I appreciate the stand they're taking, but the potential for
       | greater understanding and harm reduction seems to outweigh any
       | potential downsides of putting public webpages into an LLM.
        
         | poincaredisk wrote:
         | Commendable stance from you. It's sad that big tech won't care
         | and will index their content anyway. I wish terms of use like
         | this were enforcable.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | They are, via CFAA. It depends what their robots.txt is set
           | to or the AI version of that.
           | 
           | Anyway, the influence of random web text on AI is overrated.
           | They're going to filter out pages that don't contribute, and
           | bad words/topics/personal info will get it removed.
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | Might be worth reaching out to them, assuming you meet their
         | criteria of "researcher".
         | 
         | > _The Erowids state on their website that researchers cannot
         | "mine" data from their site but that they're open to discussing
         | projects with researchers, provided they're properly credited
         | and cited._
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | https://plus.maths.org/content/uncoiling-spiral-maths-and-ha...
       | is a classic!
        
       | Traubenfuchs wrote:
       | I once took Ketamine, "fell through the bed" and spent half an
       | hour in a different dimension, peacefully floating above and
       | close to incredibly detailed, dull and dark colored patterns
       | while unable to form language-based thoughts until I suddenly
       | snapped out of it. The music I was listening to (HUSBANDS (Run
       | Along, Son, etc.)) helped a lot and was just incredible, though I
       | am still not sure if I could have had the same great experience
       | with different music.
       | 
       | It was THE single most amazing and out-of-this-world thing I ever
       | experienced and I highly recommend it to everyone.
       | 
       | I don't know if it helped me in any way with my depression
       | though. No hangover. No lasting changes.
        
         | throwaway183785 wrote:
         | I had a similar experience with ketamine listening to different
         | music. It felt almost like I was engulfed in the music, in a
         | very positive and beautiful way. Having experienced opiates,
         | MDMA, 2C-E, 2C-B, LSD, shrooms, and DMT, ketamine is still the
         | experience I am most fond of. I sometimes wonder what certain
         | music would feel like to experience on ketamine.
         | 
         | I experienced severe depression in my teenage years. Towards
         | the end of them, I had this ketamine experience (well, a few
         | sessions, but this one stands out in particular.) My depression
         | has never come back nearly as strong as before (it's been over
         | 10 years.)
        
           | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
           | Love the shroom experience, hate all the yawning and sore jaw
           | after.
        
           | Traubenfuchs wrote:
           | One time I snorted ketamine with a bunch of hairy middle
           | eastern guys on a club toilet in Tel Aviv and the next day I
           | was courageous enough to rent myself a car and drive to the
           | dead sea, when I had given up navigating the shitty bus
           | booking websites for dead sea transports the day before.
           | 
           | There might be something to it. Unfortunately, the last few
           | times I tried to buy Ketamine I got scammed with Cocaine,
           | which I abhor.
        
         | tayo42 wrote:
         | Idk how people do ketamime recreationally or in public. I did
         | one little bump and was couch locked, managed to do two more
         | and was laying on the floor with the world spinning, eyes
         | closed, trying to manage motion sickness
        
           | kouru225 wrote:
           | Calvin Klein is the answer. That's how people do k
           | recreationally.
        
             | spidersenses wrote:
             | That wasn't very helpful...
        
         | anon84873628 wrote:
         | You might want to seek out a formal therapist who uses
         | medication assistance. They will have a series of regular
         | sessions first to prepare/prime you for treatment. Set and
         | setting matter a lot with these drugs!
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | Just remember: There are a lot of chemicals that produce LSD-like
       | effects. The farther away you are from the chemist, the less
       | likely you know the actual drug that you're getting. This is
       | especially the case at concerts / festivals, where the "game of
       | telephone" might mean that you don't really know what you're
       | taking.
       | 
       | After reading many trip reports on Erowid for LSD, I suspect that
       | the authors often unknowingly took something else. A classic case
       | is STP/DOM, which often comes in paper / tabs and is visually
       | indistinguishable from LSD. If you ever hear the familiar, "I
       | took some crazy acid. At first it didn't work, so I took another,
       | and then I finally came up after an hour and had an intense
       | trip," it was probably STP/DOM instead of LSD.
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | At Bonnaroo, one of our party got STP instead of acid and we
         | had to babysit all frickin weekend. Of course, I had already
         | taken my mescaline so it was not fun at all.
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | Same thing for ecstasy: Can be anything from filler scam, to an
         | MDMA dosage that will probably send you to hospital, to drugs
         | that work very similar to MDMA and can also be called ecstasy
         | to weird ass hard drugs that are something completely
         | different.
         | 
         | In Vienna we have an organization that checks pills or powder
         | from the batch you bought and tells you what exactly it is.
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | even LSD doesn't usually work _immediately_. it usually takes
         | something like 30 minutes to an hour to start having effects.
         | 
         | i think one of my records is something like 12 hours after
         | dosage to start feeling the effects. which i think happened
         | because i also ate a bunch of food before taking
         | 
         | i use LSD recreationally every 1-2 weeks or so
        
           | Etheryte wrote:
           | Checking out your profile, did you already have dissociative
           | identity disorder before finding your way to LSD? How do you
           | think the two interact? No judgement or implications,
           | curious.
        
           | justlikereddit wrote:
           | I frequently eat before taking LSD and it never takes 12
           | hours to hit, after 1 hour it's always live and peak will
           | occur within 3-4 hours. With a light meal or empty stomach it
           | comes on a bit faster to a noticable state (but the hidden
           | hunger can interfere with well being during the trip )
        
       | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
       | Once I took way way too much and disappeared into a swirling mass
       | of organs and gibbering creatures a la Geiger. It should have
       | been terrifying but it just... wasn't. I really enjoyed it.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, back in the fully conscious world, my roommates had
       | conversations with me that I do not remember at all. I took a
       | very long break from any experimenting after that.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Giger. Geiger is the counter.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Hah, this now prompted me to ask ChatGPT to tell me about Erowid
       | and the most remarkable things it read there, and we're chatting
       | along over bad trips and it telling me how apparently heroin
       | can't fix a bad trip, and it comes up with quotes from which I
       | have to assume that they are just hallucinations, but "funny"
       | ones if one thinks about them just having gotten made up by an
       | AI:
       | 
       | > Every bad sensation was magnified a thousandfold because there
       | was nothing to filter or rationalize it. Pain didn't feel like
       | something I was experiencing--it felt like everything I was.
       | 
       | > I was convinced I had broken something inside my mind
       | permanently, that I'd never be normal again. The terror of that
       | idea became its own reality.
       | 
       | but also the nice things are interesting to chat about
       | Users frequently say things like:       "There was no past or
       | future, only this moment."       "Who I was didn't matter
       | anymore; I just existed."
       | 
       | or "That's one of the most interesting paradoxes people report:
       | thinking continues, but the thinker disappears."
       | 
       | generally a fun thing to chat about with it.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | > which I have to assume that they are just hallucinations
         | 
         | They definitely are, in one way or another ;)
        
         | volteret4 wrote:
         | I think people belive that there is no thinker because
         | sometimes your ego dissapears, at least fase out. Our thoughts
         | and opinions arent relevant anymore. Thats muy experience and
         | opinion btw.
        
           | buildsjets wrote:
           | Who is the master who makes the grass green?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_the_master_that_sees_an.
           | ..
        
       | LoganDark wrote:
       | when i take lsd i almost seem to gain the ability to see and hear
       | my thoughts. i can imagine stuff with my mind's eye normally, but
       | with lsd it's like i can see concepts directly. it feels like
       | instead of thinking in words like usual it's like i can think
       | with raw energy or something and i have more access to things
       | 
       | also it's a lot easier for me to recall like trauma and other
       | buried stuff when i'm on lsd
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | For DMT it's immediate. Even closing your eyes you see colors
       | (flashes of light). I was sitting at a wooden table and the grain
       | patterns were moving especially the circular placemat in front of
       | me with concentric rings. And I remember being scared of my own
       | arm like wtf is that. It was brief though minute or two it was
       | over.
       | 
       | I have not done LSD or mushrooms as I have a bad
       | childhood/repressed memories and I worry of having a bad trip.
        
         | btwitch wrote:
         | > I have not done LSD or mushrooms as I have a bad
         | childhood/repressed memories and I worry of having a bad trip.
         | 
         | That's a reasonable stance. I've found "bad" trips on both to
         | be incredibly healing, nevertheless. I'm sure the outcome
         | depends largely on your state of mind at the onset. Combining
         | with MDMA could take the edge off bad memories that come up and
         | grant space for processing them directly.
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | What do you think about doing it with a sober friend to
           | control you? I guess you could be alone in a room and they
           | monitor you if you need help.
           | 
           | Also micro-dose. It's funny the movie Jobs 2013 it shows him
           | doing acid and he's in the field, I'm like "Oh if I do acid I
           | can be like Steve Jobs" not serious but was wondering
           | maybe... unlocks your brain somehow.
        
             | jampekka wrote:
             | A sober, or an experienced trustworthy, tripsitter is
             | almost a must. A _small_ amount of MDMA (especially if you
             | 're not familiar with it) before taking a psychedelic can
             | be helpful as mentioned. Having some sedatives just handy
             | just in case may itself lessen the probability of
             | unpleasant effects.
             | 
             | Micro-dosing is mostly placebo. But a good idea is to start
             | with small doses (check e.g. the "threshold limits" at
             | Psychonaut Wiki), and maybe faster shorter acting
             | substances like 2C-B or mushrooms rather than longer acting
             | like LSD.
             | 
             | Also good to acknowledge that psychedelics just aren't very
             | enjoyable experiences for many, and even for most they are
             | rarely unambiguously good.
        
               | ge96 wrote:
               | Yeah I'm wondering if you can tell like I can't smoke w
               | because I get paranoid/scared of people. I just drink in
               | a social setting
               | 
               | edit: tell as in if you can't handle w, shouldn't do
               | acid/psychedelics ha
        
               | jampekka wrote:
               | Psychedelics aren't necessarily as anxiety/paranoia
               | inducing as weed, and even the effects in general aren't
               | necessarily as intense. Of course it depends on the
               | dosage, the person and the setting, and paranoia from
               | weed most likely correlates with difficult psychedelic
               | experiences.
        
             | mdhen wrote:
             | benzos end LSD trips, so if you are worried about a bad
             | trip, just have a xanax with you when you do it and if you
             | want out, take one and in 30 minutes you will be okay.
        
         | jampekka wrote:
         | DMT hallucinations are very different, and a lot more vivid,
         | than those from LSD or mushrooms. With the latter, at least
         | with eyes open and in reasonable doses, the effect is not so
         | much as seeing "new things", but seeing the same thing somehow
         | differently. There may be some slight morphing-type movement,
         | but it's still obvious that you see the "same things". I don't
         | think the visual effects are really significant part of
         | LSD/Mushroom trips. They are just easiest to verbalize (unlike
         | e.g. some weird brainfucks like forgetting what a door does),
         | so they are talked about more.
         | 
         | With DMT it can be as if someone suddenly put VR glasses on
         | you.
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | I'm just afraid of being trapped in a bad trip for hours ha
           | may seem like eternity, maybe it's not so bad/try micro dose.
           | 
           | Edit: tangent: it's interesting, I jumped out of a plane
           | before (tandem) and when I landed I didn't change as a
           | person.
        
         | alt227 wrote:
         | IMO its the worry itself which causes the bad trip not actually
         | the repressed/bad memories. I know lots of people with bad
         | childhoods who have great trips, but anybody who is anxious or
         | worried about anything on the trip will have a bad time.
         | 
         | If you are in a good place surrounded by good people and you
         | are happy, then it _should_ be a good experience. If you go
         | into it worrying about what will happen then the drugs will
         | compound that anxiety, not relieve it.
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | Interestingly, there is a drug call datura, a beautiful white
       | flower you can find all over suburbia, whose seeds when drank in
       | a tea are an extremely powerful deliriant.
       | 
       | If you read the trip reports of it (which are pretty fascinating
       | tbh) you notice a common trend of people hallucinating that they
       | are smoking a cigarette, and then they drop it, only to search
       | around and be unable to find it. This is usually one of the first
       | tip-offs they have that something is happening before they
       | totally get lost in the void. Really fascinating how many people
       | on there had this same common experience while taking datura
       | specifically.
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | Absolutely no one should even be entertaining the thought of
         | experimenting with datura without first performing in-depth
         | research, and having come to an understanding and acceptance
         | that the result may likely be a multi-week violent
         | psychotic/deleric episode culminating in involuntary
         | hospitalization or incarceration. I have NEVER heard of anyone
         | having an enjoyable experience with this substance, and I've
         | been around for a while.
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | I meant to add that at the end. Like you said, basically no
           | one ever has a good time on this drug. The trip reports seem
           | to be almost entirely kids looking for a free high, and
           | virtually no one who knows what they are doing purposely
           | taking it.
        
           | LoganDark wrote:
           | i think it's probably bad that this made me more curious
           | 
           | i think someone in my head wants to try it even if it's
           | universally unpleasant
           | 
           | edit: jk i read literally anything about what the experience
           | is actually like and i don't know if i feel like boiling the
           | body with dehydration that bad, and apparently the other way
           | you know it's working is that your mouth and throat get so
           | dry that it becomes impossible to swallow food without
           | choking
        
           | filoeleven wrote:
           | The difference between an effective dose and a damaging or
           | deadly dose is also pretty small IIRC. Between that and the
           | stories of "I had no idea what was real and what was not for
           | three days," it's a hard pass for me. There doesn't seem to
           | be any insight to be gained from its use, or even
           | recreational entertainment.
        
         | NoThisIsMe wrote:
         | It's a deliriant, not a disassociative. Worth mentioning the
         | trip is said to be deeply unpleasant, and also the plant is
         | poisonous.
         | 
         | But yeah I too find it interesting how a drug can seemingly
         | yield the same specific hallucination in different people. See
         | also spiders and DPH (another deliriant).
        
           | wave-function wrote:
           | Spiders are also a recurring theme among amantadine users:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amantadine
           | 
           | It was very easy to buy in Russia and neighboring countries
           | up until 2012 or so. I've never used it (chickened out of
           | trying out something like that), but there are tons of
           | stories from more adventurous people.
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | Ah yes, thanks, my mistake
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Salvia turns people into zippers and books, sometimes door
         | knobs.
        
           | jajko wrote:
           | Ha, thats sort of my experience too. Or often like looking
           | through paper roll or grooved gun barrel which keeps twisting
           | on subspace level. Or Van Gogh' Starry night pattern.
           | 
           | Good thing is salvia is very short acting, maybe 5-10 mins
           | for me and intensity is somewhere around mushrooms. But I
           | talk about at least 10x extracts, raw one is just tons of
           | very biting smoke and comparatively little effect. The kick
           | is literally within seconds, I barely managed to put down
           | bong after a single hit and was flying away.
        
             | neom wrote:
             | It's one of the few I've not tried. Personally I believe
             | all the psychoactive plants are tools with distinct
             | purposes (to be prescribed if you will) - salvia is the one
             | that I'm not sure what it should be used for, I guess it's
             | a good tool to show very literally that everything is
             | everything, that seems to be what it basically does?
        
               | temp0826 wrote:
               | The more traditional way to use it is to chew on leaves,
               | which is a far less intense and slower way to use it.
               | Probably the approach you'd take if you wanted to get
               | something useful out of the experience.
        
         | wave-function wrote:
         | When the Soviet Union fell, lots of military first-aid kits
         | escaped in the wild. Some of them (small plastic ones colored
         | in bright orange IIRC) contained this thing:
         | 
         | https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aprofen
         | 
         | (sorry, you'll have to rely on Google Translate, there's very
         | little info on it in English)
         | 
         | It's a powerful anticholinergic agent used to treat poisoning
         | by organophosphorus compounds (like Sarin).
         | 
         | Like many other anticholinergics (including Datura), if taken
         | without first actually experiencing the poisoning, it results
         | in a deep delirium with complete loss of control over one's
         | actions. There are lots of interesting/disturbing stories out
         | there on the internet, most of them written in late 1990s to
         | early 2000s before all the stockpiles had been found and used
         | up.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | A friend-of-a-friend took it and did the same thing. He was
         | pinching his fingers in the blades of grass and putting them to
         | his lips in a smoking motion. Then he ran straight into a
         | wooden fence and took down the entire panel. Nothing about
         | datura is good, nobody has ever had a good trip with it. Stay
         | away.
        
         | immodestmouse wrote:
         | Take my word for it, Datura and Dramamine aren't worth fucking
         | with. If you are determined not to take my word for it,
         | Dramamine is pretty similar and a lot safer.
         | 
         | Take too much Datura and you're dead. How much is too much?
         | It's very difficult to know, because it varies plant to plant.
         | I'm sure you can die from taking too much Dramamine, but at
         | least you can accurately gauge the dose.
         | 
         | Nothing I ever experienced on these drugs was interesting or
         | enlightening. Some of it was horrifying. Typically I ended up
         | curled up in a ball waiting for the madness to end (which took
         | hours). 0/10 would not try again. Reliable source of bad trips.
        
           | aeve890 wrote:
           | >Take my word for it, Datura and Dramamine aren't worth
           | fucking with. If you are determined not to take my word for
           | it, Dramamine is pretty similar and a lot safer.
           | 
           | Dramamine the over-the-counter medicine to treat nausea and
           | motion sickness?
        
             | morserer wrote:
             | That's the one.
             | 
             | You can get all kinds of _(very questionable)_ highs from
             | tons of OTC drugs: diphenhydramine (benadryl /zzzquil),
             | dextromethorphan (Robitussin), doxylamine (NyQuil)...
        
         | borgdefenser wrote:
         | Datura is not a drug, it is the flower.
         | 
         | The drug is scopolamine and atropine that datura contains.
         | 
         | I think I have read every trip report on erowid related to
         | tropanes.I find them incredibly fascinating.
         | 
         | What stands out most to me is I can't think of even a single
         | one I read that the person sounded like they had a good
         | experience. They are all pretty dark because your body knows it
         | is being literally poisoned.
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | My dmt trips never felt like the ones I read about online. They
       | were crazy and impactful every time. (I kept a dmt journal
       | durring covid lol) But visuals were always 2d, geometric, I never
       | saw some of the common things people described. Or seemingly
       | common idk. The way trip reports sound were there were alternate
       | worlds to wander around, 3d beings interacting. I think I used to
       | dab about 20mg, I'd have to look it up.
        
         | 65 wrote:
         | You probably did not break through. You'd need a higher dose
         | for that.
        
       | machine_ghost wrote:
       | "We also looked at different types of psychedelics and didn't see
       | any systematic differences there."
       | 
       | This was the most fascinating finding to me. I really wouldn't
       | have expected Salvia, Acid, Shrooms, etc. to all produce the same
       | hallucinations ... but I guess ultimately they're all operating
       | on the same core neurochemicals, so I guess it makes sense.
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | the recent research on psilocybin therapy is very interesting
         | and so long overdue, i am so glad it's finally happening
        
         | aradox66 wrote:
         | That seems much more like a limitation of their analysis to me
        
           | clbrmbr wrote:
           | This. There's obvious differences in salvinorin and
           | psilocybin effects and both are well represented in the data.
           | But keep in mind the current paper only looks at existing
           | categories of visual effect. The second study might include a
           | finer taxonomy.
        
         | A7C3D5 wrote:
         | They don't, they are drastically different in character. There
         | are close similarities within classes between some of the
         | lysergamides, substituted phenethylamines or tryptamines. But
         | even closely structurally related analogues can be extremely
         | different (ex. 2C-E vs DOET vs 2C-C).
         | 
         | LSD is almost nothing like psilocybin or mescaline or DMT. And
         | nothing is like salvinorin...
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | At low doses they're pretty similar. Moving patterns in wood
         | grain, breathing objects, faintly fractalesque structures. When
         | you take more they get fairly different.
        
       | tac19 wrote:
       | Used to take quite high doses of LSD, and often had incredible
       | visual hallucinations. Things like watching a large plant sprout
       | flower buds all over it, which slowly expanded to full bloom and
       | then retreated back to small buds; the whole experience went on
       | like that for 20 minutes. Another time I hallucinated that a
       | neighbor's house was on fire, until my friend said she was
       | hallucinating the same thing. Fortunately, the fire brigade
       | showed up quickly to quench the very real flames, without us
       | having to ring them.
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | > Fortunately, the fire brigade showed up quickly to quench the
         | very real flames, without us having to ring them.
         | 
         | imagine calling them like "my friend and i are both on lsd and
         | we are both seeing that house on fire so could you check it out
         | please in case it's real"
         | 
         | a trick i use sometimes is to check my phone camera to see if
         | it also sees the same thing
        
           | PartiallyTyped wrote:
           | There's something about digital pictures that escapes the
           | visuals.
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | I dunno about that, everything turns into a wildly animated
             | gif when I'm tripping
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | i had a friend who told me that on high enough doses
               | every picture becomes like a movie, you can just stare
               | into it and imagine that whole world
        
               | 52-6F-62 wrote:
               | You don't need acid for that. Just imagination. That was
               | my first entertainment as a child.
               | 
               | But LSD and related psychedelics are uniquely able to
               | help one reconnect with that part of themselves.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | until you hit the generative AI camera mode because, well,
           | you're tripping, and it hears your description of the fire
           | and adds flames to your image. In the words of Neo, "whoa!"
        
             | eMPee584 wrote:
             | plentiful whoas ahead x D
        
           | shrx wrote:
           | > a trick i use sometimes is to check my phone camera to see
           | if it also sees the same thing
           | 
           | You can't trust the pictures either.
        
             | hhh wrote:
             | it's a great trick and even some schizophrenic people can
             | use cameras to ground themselves. I trust the computer, and
             | it will never lie to me.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant
        
       | throwaway49F301 wrote:
       | I get how tripping every few years might be a good way to get the
       | cobwebs out and shake things up a bit. However, after 2 times, it
       | just seemed like too much of a hassle. After a couple of hours of
       | kaleidoscope, the novelty and fun starts waning, and it starts to
       | feel like a chore. And then the exhaustion the next day.
        
       | Molitor5901 wrote:
       | I used shrooms for a while to recover from depression, but I
       | never once saw anything. While walking along a trail I felt my
       | vision had grown sharper, but never colors, never patterns or
       | movement. That baffles me because at the time, I thought maybe I
       | had consumed the wrong shrooms. The self-reflection, realization,
       | and separation of thought from emotion was the most profound
       | moment in my life. Yet no hallucination.
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | for me psychedelics tend to cause things to "pop out" at me
         | more but they don't cause new things to appear on top of
         | reality
        
           | Molitor5901 wrote:
           | Interesting way to describe it. Some caveats I forgot to
           | mention: To actually make something happen I had to take 4.5
           | grams of dried soaked in OJ swallowed down. Granted I was on
           | these evil little shits called antidepressants; fun fact: Big
           | Pharma does not publish instructions for GETTING OFF of
           | antidepressants.
           | 
           | Post AT's I could get the red pill effect in as little as 1/4
           | of a gram. Still no hallucinations but.. when I took that
           | HERO dose to overcome the meds.. that walk in the forest did
           | pop out at me. That was what I called sharper but yeah, it
           | popped.
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | Shrooms and visuals seem to be all over the place. From
         | personal experience, they usually induce visuals but not
         | always. For some friends, they rarely induce visuals, but
         | sometimes they do - especially with specific strains of
         | cubensis (despite "a cube is a cube").
        
         | jajko wrote:
         | I was lets say economical with shrooms (one growkit from
         | Amsterdam and that was it), so dosed it based on dry weight and
         | never used more than '1 dose' (3g IIRC).
         | 
         | Since its consumed orally, full stomach greatly diminishes
         | effects. Second trick I've used (I think I've found it on
         | erowid) is to mix that dry shroom with raw fresh lemon juice.
         | The result tastes horribly, even worse than just dry mushrooms,
         | but it manages to make the trip much shorter and way more
         | intense which is a good change IMHO.
         | 
         | And the last thing I've done to get as much trip from those
         | rather small doses - I've laid down in bed, alone, covered
         | myself, run some quiet shamanic music in the background and
         | went off. And off I went, complete loss of all senses, dancing
         | as a mist of atoms to that music that was and wasn't there, and
         | then very slowly coming back, rediscovering my limbs and senses
         | one at a time, feeling inner peace and connection to universe
         | never experienced before. It was always profound experience but
         | I always felt that I could jump out quickly by just opening my
         | eyes and starting interacting with reality.
         | 
         | One time, first time, I didn't do any of above and just ate
         | them, walking around Amsterdam, laying in the park watching
         | nature and people during sunny day. It was almost 0 effect, I
         | properly felt my video feed from eyes was too strong compared
         | to shrooms effect and it was overriding whatever mild trip was
         | trying to happen.
        
         | throw80521 wrote:
         | I did mushrooms quite recently in a highly therapeutic setting.
         | Bar none, it was the only thing that actually addressed my
         | depression after decades of basically everything else. I feel
         | refreshed each day and everything is interesting again for what
         | feels like the first time in my life.
        
       | A7C3D5 wrote:
       | The datura report vault is an old favorite when I am feeling bad
       | about my life choices late at night.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | Here's a novel AI safety thought: Will AI need medicines to
       | remain mentally healthy and sane? Will it enjoy tripping? Will it
       | eventually fix itself to remain in touch with reality in all
       | circumstances?
        
         | eMPee584 wrote:
         | also, chemical substances like entheogens seem not relevant to
         | AI now but this connection could unlock enormous educational
         | potential once bio cell and "omnimodal" hybrid computing goes
         | mainstream. Interesting times ahead : )
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | https://github.com/EGjoni/DRUGS
        
       | rqtwteye wrote:
       | When I did my only two Ayahuasca sessions and closed my eyes I
       | saw some kind jungle scene with the eyes of a big cat looking at
       | me. It was really interesting. With mushrooms I usually see
       | abstract patterns. I never have mach hallucinations with eyes
       | open. I just notice more things that I usually wouldn't notice.
       | That's why I believe a lot movie directors took some kind of
       | drugs because of all the details they can see.
        
       | konfusinomicon wrote:
       | all i know is that once you see the eyes looking back at you, and
       | realize that it is the eye of nicholas cage, the universe and
       | reality begins to make a lot more sense and it shows that even
       | the gods reuse assets
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | I usually see the floor when I trip.
       | 
       | Sorry about the bad joke, but reading the title I first thought
       | someone is doing experiments having people wear an action cam or
       | something. ;)
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | This is so strange. The entire HN story page claims to be recent
       | but if you look at user profiles this was all posted days ago. I
       | didn't realize HN had a repost-with-altered-timestamps feature.
        
         | temp0826 wrote:
         | HN is tripping?
        
       | DiscourseFan wrote:
       | The first time I took shrooms I had a very "thing in itself"
       | moment where I realized that, because every time I thought
       | something, all the sudden it became true, my perception must be
       | affected by my cognition and that there were things outside the
       | boundaries of my cognition that I could not necessarily perceive.
       | Worst part was I still had to get up the next morning to teach, I
       | started saying the weirdest shit in my practical anthropology
       | course...
        
       | adrbin-NLG wrote:
       | Many factors. Quality and type of substance. Liquid, blotter,
       | pill form, mushrooms,cactus,leaves. And very important one's
       | belief system. Then how much you ate, did you trip the previous
       | days. How old one is? Do you tell fibs to yourself and others. On
       | and on.
        
       | daneel_w wrote:
       | When I was in my 20s I tried salvia ( _Salvia divinorum_ )
       | several times as tincture and by smoking dried leaves, and I'd
       | like to share my experiences:
       | 
       | The first time was with tincture. My entire left body half became
       | intoxicated in the exact same way as when drunk on alcohol. The
       | left half of my body had difficulties with balance, coordination
       | and motor functions. The vision on my left eye was impaired by
       | the eye refusing to stay on target. Most interestingly, the left
       | half of my brain was also influenced, giving me problems with
       | speaking fluently and thinking straight. My right body half was
       | completely unaffected, instilling me with a sense that humans
       | were composed of two distinct halves rather than one body.
       | 
       | The second time was also with tincture. Nothing happened. No
       | sensations of any kind.
       | 
       | The third time was with tincture and by smoking. It was a
       | profound experience. I dozed off and dreamt that I was a nut on
       | the branch of a tree. The wind swept me away and threw me onto a
       | meadow where I sprouted and began to grow. I experienced life as
       | a sapling, growing for years and years until I was an old tree,
       | and I had vivid and fresh memories of seeing countless springs,
       | summers, autumns and winters coming and going. When I came out of
       | it I had an exhausted feeling in my chest reminiscent of waking
       | up from long and deep sleep, and in my mind I had the memory and
       | feeling of having lived for a hundred years, and a strong sense
       | of an incredible amount of time having gone by since I smoked the
       | salvia.
       | 
       | The last time I used it was by smoking. I experienced merging
       | with things I touched. I sat on the floor and leaned back against
       | a sofa, and felt my back sinking into the sofa and becoming part
       | of it. I laid down on the floor, and felt my back fusing with the
       | floor. I drank water from a glass and felt as if the glass didn't
       | want to "let go" of my hand.
       | 
       | Smoking salvia hit almost instantly. With tincture, which was to
       | be kept in the mouth for 10+ minutes but not swallowed, it took
       | close to 20 minutes before the sensations begun. All of the trips
       | lasted no more than 15-20 minutes and I never had any kind of
       | hangover or lingering effects other than the (positive) emotional
       | and psychological phases of reflecting on the experiences.
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | I am a fellow psychonaut, and have plenty of experience across
         | plenty of entheogens... I DO NOT RECOMMEND SALVIA TO ANYBODY
         | (not even experienced dissociative users). It has no beneficial
         | purpose, and is quite terrifying.
         | 
         | My best summary of using Salvia is it typically leads mental
         | isolation on par with what most never-used-drugs persons
         | _think_ a  "bad LSD trip" might be like.
         | 
         | Should you still want to play with this ornamental plant, I
         | would recommend you become comfortable with psilocibin,
         | ketamine, LSD, and especially high-dosage mescaline. If any of
         | these should become addictions, mushrooms are probably the
         | least-harmful entheogen (I'm not counting marijuana, which is
         | "nothing" compared to any drugs discussed above).
        
           | codr7 wrote:
           | I would add Muscimol to the list of things to try before.
           | 
           | I've only heard stories about Salvia, but from some pretty
           | hard core psychonauts whom I wouldn't expect to be afraid of
           | anything.
           | 
           | I get bad vibes from what I've read about side effects of
           | Ketamine though, nothing I feel like doing to my body.
        
             | ProllyInfamous wrote:
             | I've never tried Muscimol (don't even know what is), but
             | psilocibin is the only entheogen I'd recommend anybody
             | experience _more than just once / casually_.
             | 
             | Cannabis is a daily part of my life, for two decades. In
             | the same way I'm "trying to drink less coffee," _I 'm
             | trying to vape less, too_... but everybody should try LSD
             | and/or DMT _at least once in their lifetime_ (but not
             | before becoming comfortable with psilocibin).
        
             | aqueueaqueue wrote:
             | I don't know much about Ketamine. I thought it was just
             | what they use to knock you out for surgery.
        
           | daneel_w wrote:
           | I don't recommend anyone to experiment with drugs, _but_ ,
           | nor would I in the case of salvia advice against it or
           | caution people, with the exception that they should have a
           | "sitter" the first couple of times. I view drugs as
           | potentially enabling people to have incredible otherwise
           | unobtainable experiences, and I don't want to "gatekeep" and
           | stand in people's way from that, unless the case was highly
           | addictive and degenerating drugs such as heroin, amphetamine
           | etc. I absolutely do not consider salvia as a risky drug in
           | that sense.
           | 
           | I have tried both LSD and psilocybin mushrooms, and while LSD
           | was very interesting I did not like being tied-up for half a
           | day with no immediate way out of it. Psilocybin mushrooms
           | were to me similar to LSD but a very bumpy and somewhat
           | unpleasant ride, in lack of a better description. Similarly,
           | I did not like being stuck with that high for roughly 8
           | hours, nor did I enjoy the recovery afterwards. With salvia
           | none of these feelings weighed on me since with tincture and
           | smoking it was a short and to me fully manageable experience.
           | I'm aware that when chewing fresh leaves the entire process
           | is much longer.
        
             | shipscode wrote:
             | A sitter isn't going to save you from a lifetime of HPPD or
             | visual snow.
        
               | daneel_w wrote:
               | Spare me and others the FUD. I tried salvia after years
               | of reading about people's experiences with it.
        
         | lukebuehler wrote:
         | > I dozed off and dreamt that I was a nut on the branch of a
         | tree. The wind swept me away and threw me onto a meadow where I
         | sprouted and began to grow.
         | 
         | I've now heard of this kind of trip with Salvia a few times--
         | the notion of an immense amount of time passing, people being a
         | flower on a wall for years, or a chip of paint for decades.
         | Mostly the impression that I got was that it wasn't a nice
         | experience in anyway.
         | 
         | Could you say more in what way the time passing felt for you?
         | Was it only positive and interesting? Or did you feel trapped?
        
           | daneel_w wrote:
           | For me that experience was only positive and interesting. No
           | feeling of being trapped, nor any lucidity or other kind of
           | awareness for that matter. I can best describe the passing of
           | time as both similar and dissimilar to the common experience
           | with marijuana where time becomes intangible and just runs
           | off - e.g. going to the toilet and coming back 20 minutes
           | later asking everyone how long you were in there. There was
           | no sense of waiting or idling, but instead distinct memories
           | that amount to time. The largest feeling was that of
           | exhaustion when coming out of it, akin to collapsing in bed
           | after an incredibly long day, but that wore off quickly.
        
       | 65 wrote:
       | My experiences from psychedelics are as follows:
       | 
       | Mushrooms: We must love each other, everything feels so warm and
       | friendly.
       | 
       | LSD: It's like I'm traveling through my entire life at 5,000
       | miles per hour. Completely messes with my perception of time.
       | 
       | DMT: Holy shit what the fuck did I just do.
       | 
       | As for visuals, obviously DMT is the craziest. I saw the universe
       | as a black hole warping space time. Tons of crazy geometric
       | patterns.
       | 
       | LSD visuals include moving shapes, seeing animals in everything,
       | and lots and lots of fractals. Just don't look at yourself in the
       | mirror on LSD, it'll freak you out.
       | 
       | Mushroom visuals for me were less intense, with lots of nice
       | moving patterns.
        
       | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
       | I've tried almost every class of hallucinogen there is.
       | Psychedelics, dissociatives, cannabinoids. Never did get my hands
       | on salvia, but these days I don't think I'm very interested in
       | trying it either. I have the most experience with psychedelics
       | and cannabinoids in terms of having tried many different members
       | of the class. And I've messed around with some strange ones that
       | don't quite fit into any of the classes, like zopiclone(the
       | sleeping med). I've also experienced stimulant/sleep deprivation
       | psychosis
       | 
       | Psychedelics for me usually involve complex geometric patterns,
       | colours, and objects "breathing" and morphing. More distortions
       | and extreme pareidolia than actual hallucination(defined as
       | perception in the absence of stimuli). They also involve what
       | feels like "enhanced" hearing, where you're able to focus on
       | everything you're hearing with exactly equal attention(I honestly
       | don't know if that description makes any sense), which makes
       | music sound very different, especially music that's tailored for
       | listening while on psychedelics, like Shpongle.
       | 
       | The cognitive effects are also hard to describe, but there's a a
       | tendency towards tangential thinking while retaining the ability
       | to navigate the complex tree of tangents, a feeling of
       | profoundness attached to even the simplest deduction, and a
       | perceived ease of handling highly abstract ideas. There's also a
       | sort of tearing down of deeply ingrained biases and
       | rationalisations which in my view is how psychedelics are
       | potentially very powerful accelerants of psychotherapy and
       | personal change.
       | 
       | I never liked dissociatives very much. Their effects on memory
       | make it hard for me to even remember the experiences, and mostly
       | what I remember from doing ketamine and MXE is that everything
       | looks strange. Angles are weird. Headspace is more confused than
       | profound and certainly less productive. I might just have an
       | atypical reaction to dissociatives, idk.
       | 
       | Cannabinoids are very unique drugs in that they provoke some
       | combination of stimulant, sedative, psychedelic, dissociative and
       | deliriant effects. Many people report that after combining
       | cannabis with psychedelics multiple times, their experience with
       | cannabis becomes more psychedelic. This certainly happened to me.
       | I used to frequently combine 2C-B with hash several years ago.
       | Ever since then if I smoke some hash with no tolerance
       | essentially have a psychedelic trip for 3 hours. I quite like it.
       | I get to take a short trip into a psychedelic mindspace without
       | the usual hassle, longer duration, bodily side effects and sleep
       | disturbances of taking a conventional psychedelics. Right now I'm
       | doing it once every 4 weeks, since I'm trying to cure my
       | addiction to hash by teaching myself moderation, and it's been
       | working fine. Although part of me misses just the simple feeling
       | of being stoned, giggling at children's cartoons and eating
       | peanut butter with a spoon. I suppose I might never get that
       | back.
       | 
       | Synthetic cannabinoids are horrible drugs I wouldn't recommend to
       | anyone. Their sheer potency leads to a domination of dissociative
       | and deliriant effects. Psychosis is a likely outcome. Complete
       | dissociation like forgetting who you are, anterograde amnesia,
       | severe anxiety and paranoia. They're also quite hard on the body.
       | Stay away.
       | 
       | Zopiclone is a strange one. It's primary mode of action is the
       | same as benzos, but it also has some interesting interactions
       | with nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, which I suspect is what
       | causes the hallucination. It's the only drug that's given me
       | tactile hallucinations, which is a strange sensation. If I had to
       | classify it, I'd put it in the deliriant class, but it has some
       | dissociative properties too. It's strongly synergises with
       | cannabinoids but also with psychedelics. For me, the recommended
       | dose of 7.5mg usually caused some very mild hallucination, but 15
       | was the dose I usually took. I don't recommend zopiclone though,
       | as it can cause strange episodes of anterograde amnesia the day
       | after. Even when used as a hypnotic. The Z-drugs were originally
       | touted as being like benzos without the addiction potential. It's
       | since been learned that they're exactly like benzos, addiction
       | and all, just with more side effects. Boggles the mind that
       | they're still prescribed at all.
        
       | etc-hosts wrote:
       | 10 year old New Yorker article on the couple who runs Erowid
       | 
       | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/the-trip-plann...
        
       | shipscode wrote:
       | Reminder that one experience with hallucinogenic substances can
       | give you a lifetime of visual or mental abnormalities.
       | 
       | Personally I've had visual snow for over a decade from a 5 minute
       | Salvia trip. This means that instead of looking at the color
       | white or black and seeing a clean color, I see a static cloud all
       | over it. I'm one of the lucky ones - most of the people I've
       | known over the years who messed with these substances ended up
       | dead, with persistent mental illness, or brain fog that took
       | years to clear up.
       | 
       | You roll the dice on your mental and physical well being every
       | time you ingest a hallucinogen. The characterization of these
       | substances as ones which induce visual hallucinations without
       | mentioning the lifetime of mental health issues they leave people
       | with is dangerous.
        
       | dmvdoug wrote:
       | Reading this thread, Jesus. TIL: HN has a significant following
       | of drug users. No judgment, y'all do y'all, but it was
       | surprising.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Welcome to the world. Waaaaay more people do/have done drugs
         | than you think. In fact, if this is surprising to you, it might
         | mean people don't trust you.
        
           | dmvdoug wrote:
           | Thank you, O wise one. Shall you be my guru?
        
       | BizarreByte wrote:
       | I've read most of the comments on this post and I can honestly
       | say none of them make me want to try hallucinogenics. It just
       | seems like playing with fire and asking for trouble, especially
       | for those of us with severe anxiety issues.
        
         | moscoe wrote:
         | Sure sounds like an anxiety/fear response :)
        
       | fallinditch wrote:
       | Auditory hallucinations can be extremely entertaining.
       | 
       | I ate a few magic mushrooms I found while walking in the UK. On
       | returning home I went to bed to relax. Someone was playing some
       | music downstairs, I could only faintly hear it, the general
       | ambient sound was louder. My brain elaborated the faint auditory
       | signal to create the most fantastic music I had ever heard, and
       | it filled my head like it was super hi fi. Curiously I was able
       | control the sound effects and elaborate instrumentation at will
       | in real time, like I was some omnipotent engineer/DJ/composer.
        
       | cpeterso wrote:
       | [delayed]
        
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