[HN Gopher] Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffoldin...
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       Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffolding for lens
        
       Author : qkeast
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2025-02-28 04:26 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cbc.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cbc.ca)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | matthewsinclair wrote:
         | I guess it does bring new meaning to the phrase "eye teeth".
        
         | ceoofballin wrote:
         | Okay, what the actual fuck?
        
         | ValdikSS wrote:
         | You don't need horror movies with such science.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Or at any rate with such headlines.
           | 
           | We've adopted the more neutral subtitle now.
        
             | phildenhoff wrote:
             | The title "For the 1st time in Canada, surgeons put teeth
             | in patients' eyes to restore sight" is much clearer than
             | "Surgery aims to restore sight by implanting a telescopic
             | lens in a tooth".
             | 
             | First, the tooth is put into the eye -- used as
             | biocompatible material to hold the lens. Second, the
             | surgery is 60 years old and has something like a 94%
             | success rate after 27 years, so it's hardly fair to say
             | "surgery _aims_ to restore sight". It almost certainly will
             | restore sight. The part that is interesting in this story
             | is that it's an uncommon surgery that is happening only for
             | the first time _in Canada_.
        
               | dang wrote:
               | Those are good points. dcminter suggested a different
               | wording, which might have a less agitating effect, so we
               | can try that for a while.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208774
        
               | phildenhoff wrote:
               | Thanks! Your hard work is appreciated.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | _I 'm looking through Gary Gilmore's teeth_
         | 
         | Oh, it's your own teeth they use. That answers one question.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | The title should be edited. It's missing the main part which is
         | that the tooth will be implanted in the eye of the patient, not
         | left in their mouth.
        
           | qkeast wrote:
           | Apparently the title was edited since I posted it--it was
           | originally about the same as the article.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | You did nothing wrong! it's a fine submission, and the site
             | guidelines
             | (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) call for
             | using the original title "unless it misleading or
             | linkbait".
             | 
             | The linkbaity effect of the original wasn't obvious until
             | we started seeing it in the comments. Once that happens,
             | though, we've learned that replacing the title with more
             | neutral wording is the #1 thing to do to get a thread back
             | on topic and into curiosity land (as opposed to sensational
             | land).
        
               | qkeast wrote:
               | Makes sense--thanks for sharing this!
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Good point! More at
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43209012.
        
         | Frederation wrote:
         | An.. eye-tooth, if you will.
        
         | elteto wrote:
         | An eye for an (eye|tooth) and a tooth for a (tooth|eye).
        
       | dcminter wrote:
       | It's nothing like as as grotesque as the headline makes it sound.
       | Worth reading.
       | 
       | Suggested headline: "Surgery implants tooth material in eye as
       | scaffolding for lens" or something like that?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, let's try that. Thanks!
        
       | Etheryte wrote:
       | At first I was curious if they'd included any pictures of what it
       | actually looks like, but when I saw the pictures I definitely
       | came to doubt my decision. So for the feint of heart, beware.
        
         | JadoJodo wrote:
         | Yeah, that is something. Reminds me a bit of the eye worn by
         | Charles Dance's character in Last Action Hero.
        
         | reneherse wrote:
         | Like something out of a Lynch or Cronenberg film. Definitely
         | not what I was expecting
        
         | ada1981 wrote:
         | Surprised they didn't do a tattoo of an eye or something...
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | This is the first I'd heard of this, and I did some poking
       | around, and came to the conclusion that this surgery is ~mostly
       | obsolete --- which is an answer (for me) to the question of
       | "don't they have a better substance to use as a lens substrate
       | than tooth?"
        
         | johnisgood wrote:
         | Why is it obsolete?
        
           | ada1981 wrote:
           | I'd like an answer that is more than just a sound bite.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | They still do it, obviously, but we have better artificial
           | corneas now.
        
             | krisoft wrote:
             | Could you share the source you found please?
             | 
             | Not that i'm doubting you. Just that i also did some poking
             | around and found this statement published in 2013: "The
             | Falcinelli OOKP (MOOKP), where adequately performed, is now
             | recognised internationally as giving the best, long-term
             | visual and retention results among all keratoprostheses,
             | especially in a dry eye." [1]
             | 
             | Curious if the difference between what you found and what i
             | found is time (perhaps what was in 2013 the best threatment
             | has been superseeded by better ones since), or differences
             | in opinions among practicioners. Especially because the
             | "where adequately performed" sentence part makes my spider
             | sense tingle about the one i found.
             | 
             | 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/sj.bdj.2013.383
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | I don't know, maybe I'm wrong? This was from casual
               | searching a couple hours ago.
        
       | reneherse wrote:
       | What are the moral and legal implications of such a surgery? An
       | eye for a tooth, a tooth for an eye?
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | If you damage somebody's eye which happens to have their tooth
         | embedded in it, then justice means takeing one of your eyes
         | _and_ one of your teeth. Pretty sure it 's a footnote in
         | Hammurabi somewhere...
        
       | smkelly wrote:
       | Very curious why you'd take this approach over something like the
       | Boston Keratoprosthesis
       | (https://eyewiki.org/Boston_Type_1_Keratoprosthesis). With a
       | history of cornea rejection, mine has been stable for almost 16
       | years.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Had to _bite_ and check this out after disbelief from the
       | headline that such a thing was going on. Pretty wacky. But also
       | amazing that some doc /researcher out there ran with a hunch to
       | figure out if this was an option to help some people improve
       | their lives. Sci-fi vibes but appreciate the motive.
        
       | westurner wrote:
       | /? eye transplant https://hn.algolia.com/?q=eye+transplant
       | 
       | https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:ZlcYhwhYqiUJ:sc...
       | 
       | From "Clinical and Scientific Considerations for Whole Eye
       | Transplantation: An Ophthalmologist's Perspective" (2025)
       | https://tvst.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2802568 :
       | 
       | > _Whereas advances in gene therapy, neurotrophic factor
       | administration, and electric field stimulation have shown promise
       | in preclinical optic nerve crush injury models, researchers have
       | yet to demonstrate efficacy in optic nerve transection models--a
       | model that more closely mimics WET. Moreover, directing long-
       | distance axon growth past the optic chiasm is still challenging
       | and has only been shown by a handful of approaches. [5-8]_
       | 
       | > _Another consideration is that even if RGC axons could jump
       | across the severed nerve ending, it would be impossible to
       | guarantee maintenance of the retinal-cortical map. For example,
       | if the left eye were shifted clockwise during nerve coaptation,
       | RGCs in the superior-nasal quadrant of donor retinas would end up
       | synapsing with superior-temporal neurons in the host 's
       | geniculate nucleus. This limitation also plagues RGC-specific
       | transplantation approaches; its effect on vision restoration is
       | unknown._
       | 
       | "Combined Whole Eye and Face Transplant: Microsurgical Strategy
       | and 1-Year Clinical Course" (2024)
       | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250113/ :
       | 
       | > Abstract: [...] _Serial electroretinography confirmed retinal
       | responses to light in the transplanted eye. Using structural and
       | functional magnetic resonance imaging, the integrity of the
       | transplanted visual pathways and potential occipital cortical
       | response to light stimulation of the transplanted eye was
       | demonstrated. At 1 year post transplant (postoperative day 366),
       | there was no perception of light in the transplanted eye._
       | 
       | "Technical Feasibility of Whole-eye Vascular Composite
       | Allotransplantation: A Systematic Review" (2023)
       | https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2023/04000/Technical... :
       | 
       | > _With nervous coaptation, 82.9% of retinas had positive
       | electroretinogram signals after surgery, indicating functional
       | retinal cells after transplantation. Results on optic nerve
       | function were inconclusive. Ocular-motor functionality was rarely
       | addressed._
       | 
       | How to target NGF(s) to the optic nerve?
       | 
       | Magnets? RF convergence?
       | 
       | How to resect allotransplant and allograft optic nerve tissue?
       | 
       | How to stimulate neuronal growth in general?
       | 
       | Near-infrared stimulates neuronal growth and also there's red
       | light therapy.
       | 
       | Nanotransfection stimulates tissue growth by in-vivo stroma
       | reprogramming.
       | 
       | How to understand the optic nerve portion of the connectome?
       | 
       | The Visual and Auditory cortices are observed to be hierarchical.
       | 
       | Near-field imaging of [optic] nerves better than standard VEP
       | Visual Evoked Potential tests would enable optimization of [optic
       | nerve] transection.
       | 
       | VEP:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoked_potential#Visual_evoked...
       | 
       | Ophthalmologic science is important because - while it's possible
       | to fight oxidation and aging - our eyes go.
       | 
       | Upper-atmospheric radiation is terrible on eyes. This could be a
       | job for space medicine, and pilots.
       | 
       | Accomodating IOLs that resist UV damage better than natural
       | tissue: Ocumetics
       | 
       | From "Portable low-field MRI scanners could revolutionize medical
       | imaging" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34990738 :
       | 
       | > _Is MRI-level neuroimaging possible with just NIRS Near-
       | Infrared Spectroscopy?_
       | 
       | From "Language models can explain neurons in language models"
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35886145 :
       | 
       | > _So, to run the same [fMRI, NIRS,] stimulus response activation
       | observation /burn-in again weeks or months later with the same
       | subjects is likely necessary given_ Representational drift.
       | 
       | "Reversible optical data storage below the diffraction limit
       | (2023)" [ _at cryogenic temperatures_ ]
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38528844 :
       | 
       | > _[...] have successfully demonstrated that a beam of light can
       | not only be confined to a spot that is_ 50 times smaller than its
       | own wavelength _but also "in a first of its kind" the spot can be
       | moved by minuscule amounts at the point where the light is
       | confined.
       | 
       | Optical tweezers operating below the Abbe diffraction limit are
       | probably of use in resecting neurovascular tissue in the optic
       | nerve (the retina and visual cortex)?
       | 
       | "Real-space nanophotonic field manipulation using non-
       | perturbative light-matter coupling" (2023)
       | https://opg.optica.org/optica/fulltext.cfm?uri=optica-10-1-1... :
       | 
       | > _"One can write, erase, and rewrite an infinite number of
       | times,"*
        
         | westurner wrote:
         | "Retinoid restores eye-specific brain responses in mice with
         | retinal degeneration" (2022)
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33129531
         | 
         | Fluoxetine increases plasticity in the adult visual cortex;
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43079501
         | 
         | Zebrafish can regrow eyes,
         | 
         | From the "What if Eye...?" virtual eyes in a petri dish
         | simulation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43044958 :
         | 
         | > [ mTor in Axolotls, ]
         | 
         | "Reactivating Dormant Cells in the Retina Brings New Hope for
         | Vision Regeneration" (2023)
         | https://neurosciencenews.com/vision-restoration-genetic-2318...
         | :
         | 
         | > _"What's interesting is that these Muller cells are known to
         | reactivate and regenerate retina in fish," she said. "But in
         | mammals, including humans, they don't normally do so, not after
         | injury or disease. And we don't yet fully understand why."_
         | 
         | /? Regenerative medicine for ophthalmologic applications
        
       | nikanj wrote:
       | I wonder how this surgery was originally 1) invented 2) proposed
       | to colleagues.
       | 
       | "Hey peeps, I've been bouncing around this idea lately. So you
       | know how Mrs Smith in room 230 has no eyesight left? Well one of
       | her teeth came off when she fell last night, and I started
       | thinking.."
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | Same here. How TF people just come up with such ideas.
        
       | Electricniko wrote:
       | Oh great, now I have to brush my eyes before I go to bed too.
        
       | uhoh-itsmaciek wrote:
       | >It involves removing a patient's tooth, usually the canine,
       | installing a plastic optical lens inside it, and then implanting
       | the whole thing into the eye.
       | 
       | How fitting that the material usually comes from eyeteeth!
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-28 23:00 UTC)