[HN Gopher] Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffoldin...
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Surgery implants tooth material in eye as scaffolding for lens
Author : qkeast
Score : 85 points
Date : 2025-02-28 04:26 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cbc.ca)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cbc.ca)
| dang wrote:
| [stub for offtopicness]
| matthewsinclair wrote:
| I guess it does bring new meaning to the phrase "eye teeth".
| ceoofballin wrote:
| Okay, what the actual fuck?
| ValdikSS wrote:
| You don't need horror movies with such science.
| dang wrote:
| Or at any rate with such headlines.
|
| We've adopted the more neutral subtitle now.
| phildenhoff wrote:
| The title "For the 1st time in Canada, surgeons put teeth
| in patients' eyes to restore sight" is much clearer than
| "Surgery aims to restore sight by implanting a telescopic
| lens in a tooth".
|
| First, the tooth is put into the eye -- used as
| biocompatible material to hold the lens. Second, the
| surgery is 60 years old and has something like a 94%
| success rate after 27 years, so it's hardly fair to say
| "surgery _aims_ to restore sight". It almost certainly will
| restore sight. The part that is interesting in this story
| is that it's an uncommon surgery that is happening only for
| the first time _in Canada_.
| dang wrote:
| Those are good points. dcminter suggested a different
| wording, which might have a less agitating effect, so we
| can try that for a while.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208774
| phildenhoff wrote:
| Thanks! Your hard work is appreciated.
| card_zero wrote:
| _I 'm looking through Gary Gilmore's teeth_
|
| Oh, it's your own teeth they use. That answers one question.
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| The title should be edited. It's missing the main part which is
| that the tooth will be implanted in the eye of the patient, not
| left in their mouth.
| qkeast wrote:
| Apparently the title was edited since I posted it--it was
| originally about the same as the article.
| dang wrote:
| You did nothing wrong! it's a fine submission, and the site
| guidelines
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) call for
| using the original title "unless it misleading or
| linkbait".
|
| The linkbaity effect of the original wasn't obvious until
| we started seeing it in the comments. Once that happens,
| though, we've learned that replacing the title with more
| neutral wording is the #1 thing to do to get a thread back
| on topic and into curiosity land (as opposed to sensational
| land).
| qkeast wrote:
| Makes sense--thanks for sharing this!
| dang wrote:
| Good point! More at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43209012.
| Frederation wrote:
| An.. eye-tooth, if you will.
| elteto wrote:
| An eye for an (eye|tooth) and a tooth for a (tooth|eye).
| dcminter wrote:
| It's nothing like as as grotesque as the headline makes it sound.
| Worth reading.
|
| Suggested headline: "Surgery implants tooth material in eye as
| scaffolding for lens" or something like that?
| dang wrote:
| Ok, let's try that. Thanks!
| Etheryte wrote:
| At first I was curious if they'd included any pictures of what it
| actually looks like, but when I saw the pictures I definitely
| came to doubt my decision. So for the feint of heart, beware.
| JadoJodo wrote:
| Yeah, that is something. Reminds me a bit of the eye worn by
| Charles Dance's character in Last Action Hero.
| reneherse wrote:
| Like something out of a Lynch or Cronenberg film. Definitely
| not what I was expecting
| ada1981 wrote:
| Surprised they didn't do a tattoo of an eye or something...
| tptacek wrote:
| This is the first I'd heard of this, and I did some poking
| around, and came to the conclusion that this surgery is ~mostly
| obsolete --- which is an answer (for me) to the question of
| "don't they have a better substance to use as a lens substrate
| than tooth?"
| johnisgood wrote:
| Why is it obsolete?
| ada1981 wrote:
| I'd like an answer that is more than just a sound bite.
| tptacek wrote:
| They still do it, obviously, but we have better artificial
| corneas now.
| krisoft wrote:
| Could you share the source you found please?
|
| Not that i'm doubting you. Just that i also did some poking
| around and found this statement published in 2013: "The
| Falcinelli OOKP (MOOKP), where adequately performed, is now
| recognised internationally as giving the best, long-term
| visual and retention results among all keratoprostheses,
| especially in a dry eye." [1]
|
| Curious if the difference between what you found and what i
| found is time (perhaps what was in 2013 the best threatment
| has been superseeded by better ones since), or differences
| in opinions among practicioners. Especially because the
| "where adequately performed" sentence part makes my spider
| sense tingle about the one i found.
|
| 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/sj.bdj.2013.383
| tptacek wrote:
| I don't know, maybe I'm wrong? This was from casual
| searching a couple hours ago.
| reneherse wrote:
| What are the moral and legal implications of such a surgery? An
| eye for a tooth, a tooth for an eye?
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| If you damage somebody's eye which happens to have their tooth
| embedded in it, then justice means takeing one of your eyes
| _and_ one of your teeth. Pretty sure it 's a footnote in
| Hammurabi somewhere...
| smkelly wrote:
| Very curious why you'd take this approach over something like the
| Boston Keratoprosthesis
| (https://eyewiki.org/Boston_Type_1_Keratoprosthesis). With a
| history of cornea rejection, mine has been stable for almost 16
| years.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Had to _bite_ and check this out after disbelief from the
| headline that such a thing was going on. Pretty wacky. But also
| amazing that some doc /researcher out there ran with a hunch to
| figure out if this was an option to help some people improve
| their lives. Sci-fi vibes but appreciate the motive.
| westurner wrote:
| /? eye transplant https://hn.algolia.com/?q=eye+transplant
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=related:ZlcYhwhYqiUJ:sc...
|
| From "Clinical and Scientific Considerations for Whole Eye
| Transplantation: An Ophthalmologist's Perspective" (2025)
| https://tvst.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2802568 :
|
| > _Whereas advances in gene therapy, neurotrophic factor
| administration, and electric field stimulation have shown promise
| in preclinical optic nerve crush injury models, researchers have
| yet to demonstrate efficacy in optic nerve transection models--a
| model that more closely mimics WET. Moreover, directing long-
| distance axon growth past the optic chiasm is still challenging
| and has only been shown by a handful of approaches. [5-8]_
|
| > _Another consideration is that even if RGC axons could jump
| across the severed nerve ending, it would be impossible to
| guarantee maintenance of the retinal-cortical map. For example,
| if the left eye were shifted clockwise during nerve coaptation,
| RGCs in the superior-nasal quadrant of donor retinas would end up
| synapsing with superior-temporal neurons in the host 's
| geniculate nucleus. This limitation also plagues RGC-specific
| transplantation approaches; its effect on vision restoration is
| unknown._
|
| "Combined Whole Eye and Face Transplant: Microsurgical Strategy
| and 1-Year Clinical Course" (2024)
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39250113/ :
|
| > Abstract: [...] _Serial electroretinography confirmed retinal
| responses to light in the transplanted eye. Using structural and
| functional magnetic resonance imaging, the integrity of the
| transplanted visual pathways and potential occipital cortical
| response to light stimulation of the transplanted eye was
| demonstrated. At 1 year post transplant (postoperative day 366),
| there was no perception of light in the transplanted eye._
|
| "Technical Feasibility of Whole-eye Vascular Composite
| Allotransplantation: A Systematic Review" (2023)
| https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2023/04000/Technical... :
|
| > _With nervous coaptation, 82.9% of retinas had positive
| electroretinogram signals after surgery, indicating functional
| retinal cells after transplantation. Results on optic nerve
| function were inconclusive. Ocular-motor functionality was rarely
| addressed._
|
| How to target NGF(s) to the optic nerve?
|
| Magnets? RF convergence?
|
| How to resect allotransplant and allograft optic nerve tissue?
|
| How to stimulate neuronal growth in general?
|
| Near-infrared stimulates neuronal growth and also there's red
| light therapy.
|
| Nanotransfection stimulates tissue growth by in-vivo stroma
| reprogramming.
|
| How to understand the optic nerve portion of the connectome?
|
| The Visual and Auditory cortices are observed to be hierarchical.
|
| Near-field imaging of [optic] nerves better than standard VEP
| Visual Evoked Potential tests would enable optimization of [optic
| nerve] transection.
|
| VEP:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoked_potential#Visual_evoked...
|
| Ophthalmologic science is important because - while it's possible
| to fight oxidation and aging - our eyes go.
|
| Upper-atmospheric radiation is terrible on eyes. This could be a
| job for space medicine, and pilots.
|
| Accomodating IOLs that resist UV damage better than natural
| tissue: Ocumetics
|
| From "Portable low-field MRI scanners could revolutionize medical
| imaging" (2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34990738 :
|
| > _Is MRI-level neuroimaging possible with just NIRS Near-
| Infrared Spectroscopy?_
|
| From "Language models can explain neurons in language models"
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35886145 :
|
| > _So, to run the same [fMRI, NIRS,] stimulus response activation
| observation /burn-in again weeks or months later with the same
| subjects is likely necessary given_ Representational drift.
|
| "Reversible optical data storage below the diffraction limit
| (2023)" [ _at cryogenic temperatures_ ]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38528844 :
|
| > _[...] have successfully demonstrated that a beam of light can
| not only be confined to a spot that is_ 50 times smaller than its
| own wavelength _but also "in a first of its kind" the spot can be
| moved by minuscule amounts at the point where the light is
| confined.
|
| Optical tweezers operating below the Abbe diffraction limit are
| probably of use in resecting neurovascular tissue in the optic
| nerve (the retina and visual cortex)?
|
| "Real-space nanophotonic field manipulation using non-
| perturbative light-matter coupling" (2023)
| https://opg.optica.org/optica/fulltext.cfm?uri=optica-10-1-1... :
|
| > _"One can write, erase, and rewrite an infinite number of
| times,"*
| westurner wrote:
| "Retinoid restores eye-specific brain responses in mice with
| retinal degeneration" (2022)
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33129531
|
| Fluoxetine increases plasticity in the adult visual cortex;
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43079501
|
| Zebrafish can regrow eyes,
|
| From the "What if Eye...?" virtual eyes in a petri dish
| simulation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43044958 :
|
| > [ mTor in Axolotls, ]
|
| "Reactivating Dormant Cells in the Retina Brings New Hope for
| Vision Regeneration" (2023)
| https://neurosciencenews.com/vision-restoration-genetic-2318...
| :
|
| > _"What's interesting is that these Muller cells are known to
| reactivate and regenerate retina in fish," she said. "But in
| mammals, including humans, they don't normally do so, not after
| injury or disease. And we don't yet fully understand why."_
|
| /? Regenerative medicine for ophthalmologic applications
| nikanj wrote:
| I wonder how this surgery was originally 1) invented 2) proposed
| to colleagues.
|
| "Hey peeps, I've been bouncing around this idea lately. So you
| know how Mrs Smith in room 230 has no eyesight left? Well one of
| her teeth came off when she fell last night, and I started
| thinking.."
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Same here. How TF people just come up with such ideas.
| Electricniko wrote:
| Oh great, now I have to brush my eyes before I go to bed too.
| uhoh-itsmaciek wrote:
| >It involves removing a patient's tooth, usually the canine,
| installing a plastic optical lens inside it, and then implanting
| the whole thing into the eye.
|
| How fitting that the material usually comes from eyeteeth!
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