[HN Gopher] Solitaire
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Solitaire
        
       Author : goles
       Score  : 347 points
       Date   : 2025-02-27 15:54 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (localthunk.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (localthunk.com)
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | Balatro is the only game where my score has maxed out the value
       | of a double precision floating point number. And this isn't some
       | crazy speedrunning strategy, it's very achievable for normal
       | players. It's strangely compelling to make numbers go up and
       | Balatro harnesses that better than any game I've played.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | > It's strangely compelling to make numbers go up and Balatro
         | harnesses that better than any game I've played.
         | 
         | More than Universal Paperclips?
        
           | Arainach wrote:
           | Unlike Universal Paperclips, I actually have a desire to play
           | Balatro more than once.
           | 
           | It also requires more thought and strategy at every point
           | rather than "wait for line to go up and click buy on anything
           | available"
           | 
           | The biggest difference is that you can lose Balatro, and you
           | can lose it very quickly either due to bad luck or bad
           | strategy. In Universal Paperclips nothing matters, once you
           | get the most basic automation both the game and you are
           | proceeding towards the heat death of the universe and all you
           | can do is accelerate it.
           | 
           | It's also a time boxed game - if you ignore the Civilization
           | "one more turn" effect, any given game will be over within 20
           | minutes.
        
             | jerf wrote:
             | The "time boxing" is coming to be one of my favorite
             | aspects of the roguelite genre. It's a nice structure for a
             | combination of a deep and compelling game, that opens up at
             | a reasonable speed, but also doesn't call for 80 hours to
             | "finish" it. I like JRPGs but even so they quite often
             | overstay their welcome. Death may wipe nearly all your
             | progress but you can easily try again in another timebox.
             | 
             | (I played some of the classic Roguelikes, and spent a lot
             | of time with Angband, but that was one of their problems...
             | winning still took many hours, could easily be dozens, and
             | so death became _very_ scary. They were on to something,
             | but the modern rebalancing of  "hand it all out more
             | quickly, and resolve the game in an hour or two and let
             | them come back" seems a much more practical approach in a
             | lot of ways.)
        
               | RickHull wrote:
               | I never played Angband but got into the closely related
               | Sil. Totally agree on your characterization (and a fan of
               | your HN posts for well over a decade).
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | If you want the numbers to go even more up, the Talisman mod
         | reworks everything to use BigInts for practically unlimited
         | number go up potential. It's mainly intended to be paired with
         | other mods like Cryptid which add obscenely overpowered cards,
         | but Talisman can be used on its own if you just want to attempt
         | the normally unwinnable ante 39 and beyond in vanilla.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | Wow you can do that in a mod? Crazy. I wondered if localthunk
           | would do this or if it was actually kind of nice for the game
           | to have a "kill screen" ending like the old arcade games.
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | The game is entirely written in Lua (on top of Love2D) so
             | it's pretty malleable.
        
             | enneff wrote:
             | There's a very active modding scene:
             | https://github.com/jie65535/awesome-balatro
        
       | superultra wrote:
       | I love this post a lot. Our entire world is perpetuated by
       | platforms that are desperately _begging_ us for engagement. It
       | feels to me at least that I 'm being pulled in a hundred
       | directions, for all my time for all time.
       | 
       | My engagement with Balatro is not quite the same as localthunks.
       | I go in phases where I play a lot and then put it down and walk
       | away, and then weeks later I get back into it. But that also
       | feels like it's in the spirit of what localthunk is talking about
       | here. It's a comfort game. A pasttime rather than an addiction.
       | Balatro is a stress reliever for me and I can jump in, play, and
       | jump out and it's fine.
       | 
       | I wonder what our digital world would look like if more tools and
       | platforms adopted an approach that was not clinging desperately
       | for everything all the time all at once.
        
         | cwizou wrote:
         | > It's a comfort game. A pasttime rather than an addiction.
         | Balatro is a stress reliever for me and I can jump in, play,
         | and jump out and it's fine.
         | 
         | Exactly.
         | 
         | To me there are two specific things that gives it that stress
         | reliever, jump in/out spirit of Solitaire :
         | 
         | - You know from the start you may not win every round.
         | 
         | - Things can instantly and dramatically turn one way or
         | another.
         | 
         | I think both are perfectly captured in Balatro, and it manages
         | to achieve it with a vastly more complex design.
         | 
         | And it manages to add more depth while keeping that formula
         | with a large number of jokers that, depending on what you get
         | at the start, will dictate a different type of playstyle.
         | 
         | Sure, you can develop some strategies over time (money), but
         | you (usually) can't force the direction of a run (at least
         | early on), you have to work with what you're given. It's truly
         | a brillant design.
        
           | ChainnChompp wrote:
           | > - You know from the start you may not win every round. > -
           | Things can instantly and dramatically turn one way or
           | another.
           | 
           | Nailed it. A good rogue-like deck-builder should always have
           | these qualities. My favorite for a few years now - Slay the
           | Spire - lives by this.
        
         | sdwr wrote:
         | I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. Balatro
         | is building on 50 years of addiction-seeking game design.
         | Everything from the sound effects, to the random round rewards,
         | to the pacing of unlocks is optimized to be as attention-
         | grabbing and dopamine-releasing as possible.
         | 
         | It's like praising Coca-Cola for not tasting as sweet as Pepsi
        
           | banannaise wrote:
           | It's a roguelike deckbuilder. The randomness is necessary to
           | the genre.
           | 
           | I think you've missed something important: none of these
           | elements in Balatro are monetized. The only way the developer
           | makes more money is through players telling other players how
           | fun the game is, which convinces them to buy it.
        
             | bscphil wrote:
             | > players telling other players how fun the game is
             | 
             | I wonder if we've collectively been trained to perceive
             | addictiveness as fun. It's good that the developer isn't
             | being directly monetizing eyeball-hours, but when users
             | have grown to expect that specific dopamine hit that proves
             | addictive, you end up having to include it anyway.
        
             | kevinmchugh wrote:
             | There's also nothing timed in balatro, so there's no need
             | for the next game to be _now_.
        
           | mfro wrote:
           | I think both of these are true. Balatro is a like a finely
           | honed blade of dopamine harvesting -- it truly does build on
           | the most addictive facets of gaming we have discovered thus
           | far. It is also laudable in the ethos of its designer,
           | expressed through the game. As others have said, there is not
           | and will never be monetization, per LocalThunk's distaste for
           | gambling(we can be pedantic and argue that at the core of
           | each roguelike is a gambling aspect but).
           | 
           | I think there is a fine line here between the cynicist 'never
           | indulge' and the consoomer/accelerationist 'do as you will'
        
           | endgame wrote:
           | What's interesting to me is that despite all that (the
           | escalating lights and noise as your score ticks up, and the
           | hypnotic effect of the sound slowing down and speeding up
           | when you fail/restart the run, are two big examples), I seem
           | to be the only person who hit a wall with Balatro. I enjoyed
           | it for a few days, saw what grinding out all of the
           | jokers/stickers would be like, and put it down. Not in an
           | insulted way, but in a "I've had a good meal, I'm full, and
           | I'm happy to leave the rest of my plate" way. I find this
           | particularly interesting because other games do have an
           | ability to grab me by the throat.
           | 
           | Perhaps it was too overt?
        
         | ronyeh wrote:
         | Maybe it's a comfort game for you. But it's an addiction for
         | me. I need to stop, so I can find something else to get
         | addicted to.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Hello, it's me, Factorio.
        
       | par wrote:
       | Reading this makes me sad actually, because I grew up on windows
       | machines (starting with windows 3.1) and have so many memories of
       | Solitaire that came shipped with windows. The deck variations,
       | the little and big effects (like winning!) I played it so much as
       | a grade schooler. Now that mac is so ubiquitous, most kids wont
       | ever know the simple pleasure of playing solitaire.
        
         | santoshalper wrote:
         | Don't worry, Windows is still far, far more ubiquitous. The
         | bigger reason people don't play solitaire as much as they used
         | to is that it is no longer the only game installed on their PC.
         | 
         | So many people in the 90s learned solitaire playing it on a
         | work from a lack of other options on their work PC. Now with
         | the so many games on the web and your smartphone, you might not
         | even try it.
         | 
         | People give Microsoft a lot of shit, but including bundled
         | games on what was at the time primarily a business OS was bold,
         | controversial, and brilliant.
        
           | noirscape wrote:
           | Windows Solitaire mostly died because Microsoft strangled it
           | with microtransactions and ads during the Windows 8 days.
           | 
           | What went from a simple minigame you could fire up at any
           | time got transformed into this monstrosity that kept forcing
           | ads on you, urging you to buy premium versions, adding
           | "engagement" nonsense (daily missions) and selling you back
           | the same features that came free in the Windows 7 version.
        
           | cwizou wrote:
           | > including bundled games on what was at the time primarily a
           | business OS was bold, controversial, and brilliant.
           | 
           | Brillant, sure, but not completely sure it was controversial
           | or bold, they have stated that it was primarily included in
           | Windows 3.0 to help people get used to the new paradigms (for
           | Windows) of the mouse and drag and drop, see
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Solitaire
           | 
           | > People give Microsoft a lot of shit
           | 
           | Well they didn't help themselves by shoving ads and
           | subscriptions in all of those games : https://en.wikipedia.or
           | g/wiki/Microsoft_Solitaire_Collection...
        
           | netcraft wrote:
           | ive always seen the reason MS included solitaire and
           | minesweeper was to teach people how to use a mouse and a gui.
           | 
           | I can remember even in the early 2000s when we started
           | installing PCs instead of green screen terminals at different
           | locations having employees play solitaire as a way to get
           | them used to their new computers and learning how to use a
           | mouse.
        
         | npteljes wrote:
         | Forget Mac, people, kids play on their phones first. And yeah,
         | it's far from the offline simple please that is solitaire. I
         | wonder what they'll say when they reach this stage of life.
         | Today's popular things seem soulless to me, but I'm sure they
         | are connecting to it (and to things I don't know about) just
         | the same as I did back then.
        
       | wiredfool wrote:
       | Don't fade in text on scroll. Just let the page scroll.
        
       | exitb wrote:
       | It really does work that way. It's a perfect game if you have ~25
       | minutes to kill. It's fairly complex, but doesn't really require
       | player to keep much information between runs. I hate going back
       | to a game after a few weeks only to discover that I no longer
       | remember how to play it.
        
         | kenny11 wrote:
         | I thought I was the only one with this problem.
         | 
         | I can still remember how to play the original Doom after all
         | these years (and where all the secrets are!) but the modern
         | editions have so many controls and weapon modes that if I don't
         | play it for a month I don't remember how anything works.
        
         | IsTom wrote:
         | > 25 minutes
         | 
         | Personally I've had ~1 hour runs often. Am I just a slow player
         | or am I missing something? For context I've been playing for
         | less than two weeks and haven't yet beat ante 11 (7M feels like
         | a big step in difficulty).
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | Nah, it's pretty common for runs to take that long,
           | especially if you're going into Endless. Some of the top
           | Balatro streamers I watch will frequently have runs that take
           | that long (or longer).
           | 
           | It does help to increase the game speed. I've got mine up to
           | max speed (but I played it at normal speed for quite awhile,
           | while I got used to the mechanics).
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | As you go up the antes, the number of viable strategies
           | decreases, until it narrows down to just one or two a number
           | of antes quite a ways before the "end".
           | 
           | IIRC localthunk has said that he considers the normal "beat
           | Ante 8" of Balatro to be the "real" Balatro and that the
           | "beat all the higher antes" is mostly there to satisfy people
           | who want it but it is not what he is optimizing for. In
           | contrast to a lot of Roguelikes where "beating the game" is
           | more "an offramp for those who want to call it a day but
           | technically just the beginning of the 'real' experience".
           | Both of which are fine goals, IMHO, but I think it helps to
           | know that Balatro's additional antes are _not_ designed to be
           | in the latter category.
        
           | enneff wrote:
           | Different people play at different speeds. And some builds
           | require more thought than others. I find that it takes about
           | half an hour on average for me to win a run (reach ante 9).
        
       | santoshalper wrote:
       | What a thoughtful post. I think there is a narrative that
       | localthunk is a "shitty programmer" (which he might very well
       | be), but that by extension, it also means that he just got lucky
       | and bumblefucked his way into massive success - almost as though
       | he didn't know any better.
       | 
       | A post like this dispels that narrative - he clearly put a ton of
       | thought into the design of that game and was incredibly
       | intentional about where he wanted it to go.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | In what quarters is that narrative? Surely one only has to play
         | Balatro for an hour or two to understand the incredible game
         | design effort that underpins it all, which is brought so
         | vibrantly to life by the music, art, animations, and all the
         | rest of it.
         | 
         | I can't imagine someone appreciating all this and still
         | managing to poo poo it over a few bugs or maybe some quibbles
         | about it having been built in Lua.
        
           | dilDDoS wrote:
           | People that mention this are usually referring to this chunk
           | of the source code:
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/programminghorror/s/KmEWRILR1q
           | 
           | My assumption is that a lot of the people that look at small
           | chunks of code and judge someone's programming ability are
           | people who have only worked in corporate environments and
           | have never had to build a large project on their own, and
           | don't have any understanding of the effort it takes to make a
           | game like Balatro by yourself. Maybe that's an unfair
           | judgment. But so is calling LocalThunk a "shitty programmer"
           | over some questionable if-else logic.
        
             | IsTom wrote:
             | It's verbose and could be simplified, but also looks like
             | something you write once and never look at again. If it
             | works it makes no sense to spend any more time on it.
        
             | slongfield wrote:
             | People love to dunk on hacky looking gamedev code. Some of
             | it is pretty ugly, e.g, VVVVVV's famous gigantic switch
             | statement, but if it works and makes a fun game, that's the
             | actually important part.
        
             | AnIrishDuck wrote:
             | Yeah, working on a game myself and ... sometimes you just
             | gotta do stuff like that.
             | 
             | Working on a game solo requires juggling several wildly
             | different disciplines at the same time. Sometimes you're in
             | "game designer" mode, you need to fix a bug or add a
             | feature, and you bonk in the caveman thing that obviously
             | works.
             | 
             | Solo gamedev is basically the "startups should accumulate
             | technical debt" meme on steroids. As long as you can
             | understand the code, nobody cares about how it looks. Only
             | how the game plays.
        
         | mattnewton wrote:
         | I have never heard that assertion, I don't know how anyone can
         | play Balatro and not feel that it is a deeply _intentional_
         | creation. I think localthunk would be the first to tell you
         | they got lucky with how it found an audience outside of
         | themselves, but everything in the game oozes polish and
         | intention.
        
           | datadrivenangel wrote:
           | The assertions are more around code quality. Game design is
           | wonderful.
           | 
           | Apparently there are places where the code is like a thousand
           | lines of if card_name then effect.
        
             | meheleventyone wrote:
             | For a project with lots of variation being maintained by a
             | single person that's totally fine.
        
               | Trasmatta wrote:
               | Yep, there are days I yearn for just having a super long
               | set of if statements, vs the over-engineered messes that
               | I deal with on a daily basis.
               | 
               | So many codebases end up impenetrable in the pursuit of
               | fancy design patterns...
        
               | npteljes wrote:
               | I think that too fancy code is just as bad as the
               | original if-else spaghetti, but then even worse, because
               | the patterns are abstract now as well.
        
               | npteljes wrote:
               | Bad code can have a really high cognitive load to
               | maintain. Just to illustrate what bad means, take a look
               | at this:
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/programminghorror/comments/1cb6r
               | ca/...
               | 
               | I can see that having even bits of modification impacts
               | lots of lines, where if written just a bit more saner, it
               | could impact just a few.
               | 
               | Of course everyone is absolutely free to do the things
               | however they want on their project. It's just that bad
               | code, and bad choices bite back sometimes really badly.
               | Project Zomboid is built in LUA for example, and it
               | shows, it's a horrorshow not just to play, but to develop
               | it as well. Their programmers spend a lot of time with
               | just refactoring things. Besides functionality,
               | maintainability should be a huge focus in my experience,
               | so that the devs don't hate life if they have to touch
               | the code again.
        
               | meheleventyone wrote:
               | The example you post is out of context and maybe a bit
               | overly verbose but again it's one guy maintaining it and
               | is perfectly readable. Does anyone really struggle to
               | understand that?
               | 
               | I'm back working on a twenty plus year old codebase (and
               | game) that's ~3 millions loc and would kill for something
               | simple like that rather than some of the overabstracted
               | crimes lurking within.
        
               | AnIrishDuck wrote:
               | Yeah, without context criticism of this code is silly.
               | 
               | What if this wasn't always how cards worked? What if the
               | mapping was (at one point in development) not
               | straightforward? Or localthunk had some ideas and wanted
               | to leave the door open to a more complex mapping scheme?
        
             | bongothrowaway wrote:
             | Undertale's code base is apparently no better. For games I
             | don't think code quality is nearly as paramount; there's
             | not a whole lot of maintenance going on there, though this
             | doesn't apply to live service games.
        
         | ARandumGuy wrote:
         | Even if the underlying code is "bad", who cares? There are far
         | more important skills in indie game development then
         | programming ability. I'd much rather play an interesting, well-
         | designed game with a few bugs and messy code over a well-
         | programmed but boring game.
        
         | npteljes wrote:
         | He clearly comes across as a conscious game designer as well.
         | And programming doesn't need to be good on today's machines.
         | Many of the indie successes are shit software, like Minecraft,
         | Valheim, Cities Skylines, Project Zomboid, and I'm sure there's
         | many others. Great product design and PR are infinitely more
         | important than software quality.
        
       | bbkane wrote:
       | I love Solitaire - it's such a nice way to kill a few minutes
       | while waiting for something else.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, many solitaire phone apps are filled with ads,
       | slow, or have clunky controls.
       | 
       | A few years ago, however, I found
       | https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.tobiasbielefeld.solitaire... .
       | Its free and open source, and quite fast with nice shortcuts to
       | move the cards.
       | 
       | I love this app and have played multiple Klondike/Spider
       | Solitaire games a day using it. I wholeheartedly recommend it if
       | you want a simple game of Solitaire in the same spirit as the
       | post.
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | Was looking for this on iPhone as well some weeks ago, and came
         | across a Solitaire that is included in Apple Arcade that works
         | really well, doesn't have any ads or other distractions, just
         | plain Solitaire.
         | 
         | And another bonus is that Balatro (which the submission author
         | created) is included in Apple Arcade too, which was the
         | original reason I got Arcade.
        
           | schnable wrote:
           | Apple Arcade is great for avoiding all the adware and in-app
           | payment crap.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | This is why I play it with actual physical cards. I learned it
         | as kid so partly it's a comfort ritual, and partly the tactile
         | interaction is very soothing.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | It also "forces" you to keep playing when it gets tough, as a
           | complete shuffle plus new setup isn't just a simple click
           | away. It's also nice to get off the screen for a while.
           | 
           | I recently bought a smaller deck of cards, like half or three
           | quarters of the size of a normal deck or so. Makes it easier
           | to play without needing a huge table.
        
         | sl3dge78 wrote:
         | I highly recommend the Zachtronics Solitaire Collection.
         | Greatly designed solitaire games. I play them every day on my
         | commute to work.
        
           | rezmason wrote:
           | Zachtronics Solitaire Collection inspired me to begin
           | experimenting with Solitaire variants, and hopefully
           | Balatro's well-deserved success will stoke people's curiosity
           | in similar titles.
           | 
           | For now, my web prototype lets you choose the numbers of
           | suits, colors, ranks, columns, and multiples of cards drawn
           | from the deck. It's a start. I invite HN to explore the
           | Klondike Extended Universe:
           | 
           | https://rezmason.github.io/patience
        
           | motes wrote:
           | I was gonna recommend the same one. I wanna add that Hempuli
           | (Baba is You, Noita) also made a solitaire collection
           | inspired by Zachtronics. It's just 3 bucks on his itchio and
           | it's something I play while I have my coffee.
           | 
           | https://hempuli.itch.io/a-solitaire-mystery
           | 
           | Funny enough it has a "Royal Flush Solitaire" where you make
           | poker hands and your goal is to reach 240 points.
           | 
           | Binary Solitaire and Transformation are my favorites.
        
             | jefurii wrote:
             | The Solitaire Mystery is also the name of a very
             | interesting novel that explores all kinds of permutations
             | of the cards, suits, etc, etc, by Jostein Gaarder, author
             | of Sophie's World.
        
           | skeaker wrote:
           | Thirding this recommendation, Fortune's Favor solitaire and
           | Shenzen solitaire from this collection are some of my
           | favorite variants ever. Either of them would be worth the
           | price of admission alone.
        
           | joemi wrote:
           | I absolutely love the Zachtronics solitaires. I play at least
           | one a day on my phone. That said, I wish they were slightly
           | better designed for phones, since the text/images and touch
           | targets can be a little small. It's too bad Zachtronics is no
           | more -- it'd be nice if they were able to do some UI updates.
        
             | cglong wrote:
             | I heard from an obscure source (a former Zachtronics intern
             | in a stream chat) that they're currently building a new
             | game
        
         | NoboruWataya wrote:
         | This is the one I use too. I like how many variants it has as
         | well.
        
         | palsecam wrote:
         | Using a lightweight PWA (progressive web app) is also an
         | option: https://FreeSolitaire.win (self-plug).
         | 
         | Doesn't generate unwinnable games[1] & detects dead-ends. Works
         | offline after the first visit. No ads until game over, and they
         | aren't obtrusive.
         | 
         | Often lauded on HN, e.g.
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41972075 or
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42031052.
         | 
         | 1: The probability that a random deal is unwinnable is ~20%.
         | Wikipedia has a section on the subject:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klondike_(solitaire)#Probabili...
        
           | rpigab wrote:
           | Nice! I should add only-winnable generation to my own
           | Solitaire, it's adfree, although it has extremely clunky
           | controls.
           | 
           | Well, it was designed for the terminal, try the webconsole
           | version here: https://rpigab.gitlab.io/solitaire-cli/
           | 
           | Source: https://gitlab.com/rpigab/solitaire-cli
        
         | MattSayar wrote:
         | One nice side benefit of DNS-level adblocking (pi-hole, etc) is
         | that a lot of mobile games never end up showing ads. It doesn't
         | always work perfectly, but in particular I play a euchre game
         | on my phone that frequently asks me to "pay X to play with no
         | ads" and every time I think "What ads?"
         | 
         | That said, sometimes I pay to support the developer if I like
         | the game. Sucks when a game I like doesn't offer the "remove
         | ads" option.
        
       | Trasmatta wrote:
       | > I think that's one of the reasons why there isn't a player
       | character, health, or classic 'enemies' in the game as well.
       | 
       | This was the thing I found most interesting when I started
       | playing the game, because it's so different from almost all games
       | these days (especially roguelikes). I initially found it off-
       | putting (part of me wanted more context for what was happening),
       | but the more I played the more it made sense. And his comparison
       | to Solitaire really drives that home.
       | 
       | But also, despite the lack of a character or enemies, the game
       | has a huge amount of character, which I think was critical for
       | its success.
        
       | havblue wrote:
       | "To force players to get out of their comfort zone and explore
       | the design of the game in a way they might not if this were a
       | fully unguided gaming experience."
       | 
       | It's great how rogue like/lite games such as slay the spire and
       | Hades have riffed on that concept. Guess what, you won't have the
       | same power ups this time. You're going to have to learn to play
       | the same game in a different way. So in Balatro you're playing
       | draw poker in an attempt to build different hands based on your
       | strategy.
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | I mean, that might be the intent on paper, but when I was going
         | through a game like Dead Cells, I still had specific weapons or
         | layouts that I was especially effective with--and in practice
         | that just meant that if I didn't manage to get my favorite bat
         | or nun-chuck weapons to drop, there was a good chance I wasn't
         | going to be able to complete that run.
        
           | jerf wrote:
           | Non-twitch based roguelites make it somewhat easier to learn
           | and deploy those alternate strategies in my experience
           | because you can read a bit of a clue online, think about it,
           | and then play through a round slowly and thoughtfully. In an
           | action game, you know, you pick up the sickle weapon for the
           | first time and you may have literally seconds of experience
           | with it before you die.
           | 
           | I spent some substantial time in Enter the Gungeon but have
           | to admit I kind of bounced off of it for this reason... I
           | don't have the raw time to compensate for the fact that the
           | guns require certain muscle memory for each of them, and the
           | bosses need certain muscle memory for each of them, and the
           | combinations require certain muscle memory... I enjoyed my
           | time and you might say I got close enough to see the light at
           | the end of the tunnel, but I just don't have the time to get
           | there in a game where fractions of a second count.
        
       | ziddoap wrote:
       | > _It's now been over a year since launch and I am still playing
       | Balatro almost daily. I play a couple runs before I go to bed_
       | 
       | I think this is really important, especially for games. Play the
       | game you make!
       | 
       | There's a fair number of games that I've played where the
       | developer clearly has not sat down and played through the game
       | _as a player would_. No skips, no custom developer-only starts or
       | features, no rushing through sections  "because I know what
       | happens", etc. To be fair, though, these are often below $5 games
       | on Steam, so I'm sure a chunk of them are cash grabs rather than
       | an honest attempt at making a successful game.
        
         | ksynwa wrote:
         | Reminds me of Miyazaki from FromSoft who said he doesn't play
         | his own games.
        
           | ekianjo wrote:
           | He would not be able to beat the first boss probably
        
             | monadINtop wrote:
             | He's beaten nameless king, pre-nerf radahn, melania etc.
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | No, he said he doesn't play them AFTER they release. But he
           | plays them constantly when they're in development. One of the
           | difficulty rules at FromSoft is that each boss and area has
           | to be beatable by Miyazaki (which he said is a good baseline,
           | because he likes challenge but doesn't consider himself good
           | at games).
        
             | ksynwa wrote:
             | I checked and you are right. Thanks for the correction.
        
         | svelle wrote:
         | The story of the Hotline Miami 2 devs comes to mind where they
         | mentioned that they play tested the game at half speed a lot of
         | the times, which, including many other factors, contributes to
         | the game being way harder than the first part.
         | 
         | See: https://youtu.be/IcgmmBEEHsk?t=1427
        
       | schnable wrote:
       | This inspired me to play a round of Klondike for the first time
       | in many years. Pretty fun! Probably slightly healthier than
       | scrolling social media.
        
       | throwaway019254 wrote:
       | This game is freaking addicting. I had to uninstall it.
        
         | saulpw wrote:
         | It was for me too, but only for about a month or so. Once I got
         | 19 of 20 achievements (and the last one is nigh-impossible), I
         | lost interest, and haven't played it since. (Though this post
         | is tempting me to try a game or two with a different non-
         | addicted attitude!)
         | 
         | This is in stark contrast with Slay the Spire, which I've been
         | playing compulsively since 2019.
        
       | dilDDoS wrote:
       | Great read, I always love reading about the thoughts and
       | intentions behind game design.
       | 
       | > I play a couple runs before I go to bed
       | 
       | I do see the relaxing component of the game once you've got the
       | hang of it and are playing on white stake. But I do feel like the
       | game encourages you to take on more difficult/frustrating stakes
       | and decks, so for someone working on gold stake for the black
       | deck for example, it would absolutely not be something to play
       | before bed (unless you're in the mood to cry yourself to sleep)
        
       | lacoolj wrote:
       | honestly without context for what this blog is for, or a link to
       | the things it references (klondike/solitaire?) it's hard to want
       | to read the full thing
        
       | aaroninsf wrote:
       | It's always interesting to drop into these posts, especially when
       | they are at the top of the HN list,
       | 
       | and have zero context. Who is this person? What is localthunk?
       | What is "Balatro"?
       | 
       | A reminder there are subpopulations online within which <things>
       | are well known and active references.
       | 
       | And others, like mine, where <things> have not once come up.
       | 
       | I think like podcasts, mobile games are a thing that is just
       | totally invisible to me and <my circle>.
        
         | skyyler wrote:
         | If you spent as long reading search results for "Balatro" as
         | you did writing this comment, you would have enough context to
         | understand what localthunk and balatro are.
         | 
         | I find your musing on the topic interesting, if only as a
         | reminder that people have largely forgotten to help themselves
         | to the free information that surrounds us.
        
           | dr-smooth wrote:
           | I don't think that was his point. He wasn't asking
           | specifically what Balatro was. He just marvels at the fact
           | that there are so many niche interests out there that their
           | very existence is unknown to him.
           | 
           | Your statement about people having forgotten how to help
           | themselves to information is borderline insulting. A little
           | like sending somebody a "let me google that for you" link.
           | 
           | Or maybe I've misunderstood what _you_ meant.
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | Maybe you have.
             | 
             | Either way, I don't feel a conversation with you is going
             | to be productive.
             | 
             | Have a nice day! (Or don't, I'm not your boss)
        
         | jjice wrote:
         | TLDR: Balatro is a roguelike card game where in you make poker
         | hands to score points. You can enhance cards and get jokers
         | that have more effects.
         | 
         | It wont a ton of awards this past year (it's just about a year
         | old) and was incredibly well received.
         | 
         | Localthunk is the developer. I believe he did everything for
         | the PC version himself (except maybe a single joker's art). He
         | has a publisher that helped port to pretty much every other
         | platform you can think of.
        
           | saint_yossarian wrote:
           | The soundtrack was also commissioned.
        
         | atrus wrote:
         | YouTube is such a great, single-source, area for this. It's
         | wild how many 10m+ subscriber youtube channels that _I 've
         | never even heard of_. So much variety in the world :)
        
         | rkuykendall-com wrote:
         | There are a lot of things I do not think are good uses of AI,
         | but dropping into circles you are not apart of and getting your
         | bearings is one of my favorite use cases.
         | 
         | The other day my friends were talking about a "nemesis
         | mechanic" in a game that was good but patented and never used?
         | I asked GPT about it because I just wanted a short summary of
         | what it was and why it was cool.
         | 
         | It looks like it would have worked here too:
         | What is localthunk? What is "Balatro"?                1.
         | LocalThunk: LocalThunk is a pseudonymous game developer known
         | for creating the poker-themed roguelike deck-building game
         | Balatro. The developer operates under this pseudonym, which is
         | derived from a method of declaring variables in the game
         | development framework they use, Love .                2.
         | Balatro: This is a game developed by LocalThunk, released in
         | 2024. Balatro is a poker-themed roguelike deck-building game
         | that involves playing poker hands to score points and defeat
         | various challenges. It gained significant acclaim, winning
         | multiple awards for its innovative gameplay and design .
         | For more details, you can refer to the Wikipedia page on
         | Balatro. No specific standalone information on LocalThunk was
         | retrieved beyond the association with Balatro.
         | 
         | ```
        
       | momojo wrote:
       | > My fantasy was that I was playing this weird game many years
       | later on a lazy Sunday afternoon; I play a couple of runs, enjoy
       | my time for about an hour, then set it down and continue the rest
       | of my day. I wanted it to feel evergreen, comforting, and
       | enjoyable in a very low-stakes way.
       | 
       | I will pay money for more games like this. I want more games like
       | this.
       | 
       | I could write an essay on this beautiful breath of fresh air.
       | Balatro, like many beautiful pieces of software, is defined by
       | what it is and _isn 't_. No ads, no screwy Skinner box mechanics.
       | Just wholesome gameplay.
        
       | flocciput wrote:
       | When I was a kid, if I couldn't be on the computer for whatever
       | reason I'd occupy myself with a pack of cards. I'd play solitaire
       | (Klondike) over and over. I would vary the draw count and see how
       | that affected the game. I'd sort the cards beforehand and see if
       | that made it any easier or harder to win. I'd try to find the
       | optimal order the cards would have to be in before dealing for
       | the game to be won in the least number of steps. Ultimately I
       | figured Solitaire was just a roundabout way of sorting a deck of
       | cards and started messing with other sorting methods. I still,
       | every time I see a pack of cards, feel that urge to just sort and
       | sort and sort. It wasn't even "fun", I was just so desperate for
       | mental stimulation.
       | 
       | Anyways, love Balatro!
        
       | evmar wrote:
       | Sorry in advance if it's too off-topic, but if you want to play
       | the Windows 2000 Solitaire I have it kind of working in my web-
       | based emulator here:
       | 
       | https://evmar.github.io/retrowin32/run.html?exe=sol.exe&dir=...
        
       | 7thaccount wrote:
       | Interesting to see this here. I've commented a few times on HN
       | about recently getting into card games (e.g. various solitaire
       | games, gin rummy, presidents, spades, trash...etc) and domino
       | games. It's a lot of fun, social (even solitaire as we teach each
       | other new versions), and mentally engaging. There's no screen and
       | it all just feels less wasteful in some weird way.
       | 
       | Board game night would do the same thing, but there's something
       | beautiful about how much variety you can get out of a single deck
       | of cards or some double-six dominos. There's no setup or 50 page
       | rulebook required either. Most card games I just watch a YouTube
       | video and then just remember how to play for years.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | What you're looking for is Bridge. THAT is a card game you can
         | teach someone the basics of in an evening, and still be
         | learning more 3 decades later.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | In terms of the low stakes feel, I think calling it a "boss
       | blind" is really the only thing that I could possibly point to
       | critically.
       | 
       | It's amazing how that one word can change the entire vibe. It
       | evokes a much more serious feel to it for me. Not sure what I'd
       | call it, but I wonder if a different word would suddenly alter
       | the whole vibe just a bit more towards that stated goal in the
       | first paragraph.
        
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