[HN Gopher] iMac G4(K)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iMac G4(K)
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 401 points
       Date   : 2025-02-26 22:25 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jcs.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jcs.org)
        
       | voidfunc wrote:
       | This was my favorite iMac design.
        
         | MarcelOlsz wrote:
         | For a (somewhat) short period of time, school/college computer
         | labs were awesome to walk into. It was fun seeing tons of multi
         | colored G3's.
        
           | NegativeLatency wrote:
           | I was in nearly the sweet spot for this in school computer
           | labs as a kid so it felt like a long time to me. They only
           | started to get boring looking when I graduated from high
           | school.
        
           | floren wrote:
           | Conveniently color-coded so you could tell at a glance which
           | were the older crappier ones!
        
           | sejje wrote:
           | At my school they all had Netscape navigator. So slow.
           | 
           | We called it nutscrape
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | Me too https://www.leisuretown.com/library/qac/25.html
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | Okay, but we were like 11 years old, so I don't think you
               | got me there
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | I'm not trying to "get" anybody? I did it too lol
        
         | fredoralive wrote:
         | I'm kinda split between it and the original G3 range (slot
         | loading preferably, but in the original bright transparent
         | colours before it got weird with stuff like "blue Dalmatian").
         | The anglepoise Mac is kinda near beginning of the rather
         | sterile Apple aesthetic that has never gone away, but it's also
         | incredibly neat in a packaging sense that a CRT could never be.
         | I kinda want a combination, but I'm not sure if you could get
         | away with the colour bits on an all-in-one without the large
         | area needed for the CRT neck...
         | 
         | The Blue and White PowerMac G3 is my ultimate best looking Mac,
         | there's something about the giant G3 on the sides, and the bold
         | colours for what is a "professional" system. Sadly it all got
         | toned down for the G4...
        
           | voidfunc wrote:
           | The G3 were cool in a different way. I miss the playful
           | coloring of late 90s devices. Computers grew up but did we
           | also need our game consoles to become soulless rip offs of
           | Apple industrial design?
           | 
           | Edit: I want a translucent atomic purple phone damnit!
        
             | hot_gril wrote:
             | It was late 90s / early 2000s specifically, right? N64 was
             | colorful, GameCube a bit less, but not the SNES, Genesis,
             | NES, etc. Kinda the same with the Mac GUIs.
        
               | voidfunc wrote:
               | Yea I'd say like 95 until 2001ish. Then everything got
               | serious.
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Yeah, I have two of the G4's and while they are really nice,
           | I'd love a PowerMac G3 sometime. I have G5's as well, and
           | again they are cool, but not in the way the G3 was -- just so
           | striking and IMO creativity-inspiring.
        
           | webworker wrote:
           | As a owner of both slot load and tray load G3's, I strongly
           | prefer the tray loaders. The drives still work, while I have
           | to jam a credit card with double-sided tape into the drive to
           | get a disc out of the slot load drive.
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | no reason computers couldn't have personality again
        
       | joecool1029 wrote:
       | BTW, this site has the flying toaster screensaver if you leave it
       | open long enough. Nice easter egg!
        
         | elheffe80 wrote:
         | Glad I saw I wasn't the only one who found this. Nice easter
         | egg indeed!!
        
           | niwtsol wrote:
           | I came to share the news as well, I see there are some other
           | multi-taskers here!
        
         | nalathna wrote:
         | Also came to report the same! A wonderful retro flashback to
         | cheer me up this morning.
        
         | hadad wrote:
         | seem using this web lib/app https://www.bryanbraun.com/after-
         | dark-css/
        
       | bsimpson wrote:
       | It's wild that there was a feeling when that computer came out of
       | "this is the coolest computer design ever," and then the world
       | moved past that.
       | 
       | You can look at the iMac line and see that they moved to a more
       | laptopy everything-in-the-screen design, which got rid of the
       | base altogether. But it's weird and sad that there was a "best"
       | and then things that came after the best that were less fun, and
       | two decades later we all still seem to feel that way.
       | 
       | I suppose part of that was all the attention that shifted to
       | touchscreen phones, and computers becoming thought of as
       | practical work tools.
        
         | SahAssar wrote:
         | Looking at imac G3->G4->G5 each one was a huge step in design.
         | I think the G4 stands out to me because the "floating" display
         | was something I had never seen before.
        
           | BuildTheRobots wrote:
           | The G3 an G4 towers deserve extra special design mention.
           | From a tinkering and engineering point of view, they were
           | _lovely_ to work on.
        
             | jshier wrote:
             | Only the Bondi Blue G3 towers, the previous beige G3 towers
             | were much worse to work on.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
         | computer illiterate by and large.
         | 
         | The reason old computers were fun is because all the hip young
         | millennials loved them for everything. That has become much
         | less the case as the younger generations do everything with a
         | phone/tablet/or console. Just surfing the internet for my
         | generation was a chore that is hard for the younger generations
         | to understand.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
           | computer illiterate by and large.
           | 
           | That's something I've realized as well. There was a time
           | where typing was something more and more people could do, but
           | now nobody cares/needs to learn how. The number of households
           | that had at least one computer was something I thought would
           | get to pretty much everyone, but now there are more and more
           | people with the only compute device being their phone. Owning
           | a computer seems to be an age indicator like wearing tube
           | socks.
        
             | fjjjrjj wrote:
             | I have a teenager and a elementary schooler and both enjoy
             | PC gaming.
             | 
             | The elder is interested in game development through his
             | love of Roblox. I hope to help him get started with an IDE
             | for lua, git, and a LLM and turn him loose on it.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > and a LLM
               | 
               | this makes me nervous for proper learning of anything in
               | the future. when the first step to learning is an LLM vs
               | learning the basics with a good understanding and then
               | moving to the "advanced" tools, I don't think this is
               | really learning
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | The llm can teach you the basics. It's really good at it.
               | 
               | You can't see if it's really learning or not until you
               | see how it's used.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | so now you're implying that everyone that has ever
               | learned anything before an LLM could not see if they were
               | really learning or not? the overly zealous pro-LLM crowd
               | makes me sad that they cannot admit how ridiculous they
               | sound to rationally thinking people
        
               | pqtyw wrote:
               | To me it seemed like the comment said the complete
               | opposite of what you are implying? i.e. "llm can teach
               | you the basics" BUT "You can't see if it's really
               | learning or not until you see how it's used."
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | No, not at all.
               | 
               | I'm saying you can't judge some learning process that
               | you're not even witnessing.
               | 
               | Maybe you haven't used an LLM to learn something; maybe
               | you just let it write your code. Not everyone does that.
               | 
               | When folks like you narrow arguments "everyone can only
               | use the LLM exactly like I have, and if you do that, it
               | really hinders your learning"---who sounds irrational?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | the joke's on you then as I've never used an LLM. i see
               | the results of other people using them, and i'm not
               | impressed.
               | 
               | so who's irrational now by assuming something completely
               | off base?
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | You're vigorously defending your opinion on LLMs after
               | never having used one?
               | 
               | I think you've made my point
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | just because I don't use it doesn't mean I'm ignorant on
               | the subject.
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | I see a lot of morphine addicts, so I'm not ignorant
               | about morphine.
               | 
               | Morphine is awful and should be banned--just look at
               | these behaviors from addicts.
               | 
               | If you talk to me about valid uses like "minimizing
               | suffering for terminal patients," I'm going to put my
               | fingers in my ears, because I've seen the addicts.
        
               | fjjjrjj wrote:
               | It can teach him game development better than I can. I
               | have zero experience with it but I can teach him about
               | the software development lifecycle, version control, and
               | whatnot.
               | 
               | If it sparks his interest he has a lot of life ahead of
               | him to go deeper with it.
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | > this makes me nervous for proper learning of anything
               | in the future
               | 
               | I don't really understand this fear, particularly now
               | with the reasoning models that explain why they did
               | something.
        
               | pqtyw wrote:
               | Nobody is going to read and the "thoughts" they do output
               | are hardly every particularly coherent or insightful
               | (Deepseak is just sem-unhinged continuous rambling and
               | Open AI of course hides most of the reasoning).
               | 
               | Even if the steps/explanations were actually useful and
               | insightful, though IMHO that's not remotely the same
               | thing as figuring out the steps on your own.
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | When chatGPT corrects my writing, the explanations are
               | actually quite helpful.
               | 
               | > IMHO that's not remotely the same thing as figuring out
               | the steps on your own.
               | 
               | This is true with pretty much anything, but it doesn't
               | mean we should ignore tools that can do those steps for
               | you.
        
               | Cyphase wrote:
               | You're on HN leaving this comment. I don't think the
               | children of HN commenters are representative. :)
        
           | bsimpson wrote:
           | You might be off by a generation.
           | 
           | I was born in 86. My dad got the first Mac as he was
           | graduating from college. I think I was 13 when the iMac G3
           | and the X Public Beta came out.
           | 
           | Computers were well entrenched in my childhood, but it was
           | the people who were adults when we were children that
           | designed the fun ones.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | You're a millennial :)
             | 
             | I agree that adults designed our fun computers but those
             | were adults that specialized in making those devices. If
             | you looked at the average Gen Xer of the era you'd find
             | they have very little interaction with computers.
             | 
             | It was our generation who had computers in the home as
             | children. Very few of prior generations had that privilege.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | Gen Z also had PCs in the home as children.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | Had PCs, yes. Used PCs? IDK.
               | 
               | Gen Z starts around 95. The ipod touch came out in 07.
               | That means that the hot device to get came out when the
               | oldest Gen Z turned 12.
               | 
               | I'd grant that older genz were probably more exposed, but
               | that exposure and familiarity pretty rapidly decreases as
               | they age.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | So I was born in '96. We actually used our elementary
               | school PCs less than younger years because not as much
               | work had been digitized yet, plus it wasn't a given that
               | every student had internet at home. iPhones became hot
               | 2009-2012 when I was in middle school (gen1 iPhone/iPt
               | was too early), but everyone needed a PC at home for
               | schoolwork, same in high school. We were fortunate enough
               | to have a computer science class, which literally 10X'd
               | in popularity the year after I took it. Later years also
               | used laptops more for non-CS stuff.
               | 
               | PC games were mainstream too, so it wasn't just work.
               | Really hit me when the school jocks started joining my
               | Minecraft server. Again I think consoles were actually
               | more popular in earlier times, cause PCs couldn't run as
               | many good games until the 2010s.
               | 
               | I can't speak as much for the younger side of gen Z. I
               | assume CS is still more popular among them, there are
               | more PC video gamers than before, and there are
               | Chromebooks if you count that. Not sure if iPads ever
               | actually replaced PCs, besides it was always in Apple's
               | interest not to cannibalize the Mac line.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS that
               | does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work from
               | the end user. That's sort of where I see the computer
               | illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do a lot to
               | try and hide away what computers are behind nice app
               | icons.
               | 
               | Even the rise of needing computers/internet access to do
               | homework has sort of worked against learning how
               | computers work. It's all bubble wrapped to hide away the
               | nitty gritty details.
               | 
               | And I'm not actually even saying this is a bad thing.
               | It's just that the way you work with a computer is very
               | different than it was for me. By the time you were
               | exposed a lot of things had already been very simplified.
               | 
               | Just to give you an idea of what I mean by that.
               | 
               | For me to install a game on my old DOS computer, I had to
               | work with potentially multiple 3.5 floppy disks. I'd run
               | `cd A:\\` to get to the A drive where the floppy resided.
               | From there I'd run `dir \w` to get a list of the files on
               | the floppy disk. I'd be on the lookout for a `SETUP.EXE`
               | or `INSTALL.EXE` file to start the install process. From
               | there, the installation prompt would ask me a bunch of
               | questions about my computer things like "What sort of
               | sound card do you have"? "What is the IRQ port for your
               | card"? "Do you have a VooDoo Graphics card"? "Where do
               | you want to install this game (We recommend C:\DOOM)"?
               | 
               | After some whirring and clicking the install would be
               | complete and we'd have to `cd C:\DOOM` and run
               | `DOOM.EXE`. There we'd run the executable and... shoot, I
               | put in the wrong sound sound card, the wrong port, etc.
               | It's at that point we'd have to diagnose the problem,
               | maybe modify an .ini file. All from reading the manuals
               | and past experience.
               | 
               | It's that sort of experience that I have which made me
               | intimately familiar with concepts like file systems and
               | disk partitions. Familiar with random parts of a computer
               | in ways that were vastly simplified. I mean, for example,
               | I had to do things like installing new GPU drivers to
               | make some games work properly. I couldn't just trust
               | windows update to grab a relatively up to date (or even
               | the correct) driver.
               | 
               | That said, I'm 1000% sure your CS class was WAY better
               | than my intro to programming. The resources I had for
               | programming were really bad. It was a lot of self taught
               | effort.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | With this Mac in front of me, am I really digging into
               | technical details more than on a Chromebook or iPhone?
               | Taking away the iTerm2 window on the other screen (since
               | not everyone is a programmer), all I've got is a web
               | browser, calendar, and mail. In the OS X Tiger and WinXP
               | days, probably the same plus iChat/AIM and MS Word. The
               | trickiest thing was maybe saving a Word doc to a USB
               | stick, which is still easier than using Google Drive.
               | 
               | Old stuff that required command lines was harder, but I
               | think that was niche and very few people understood it.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | > Old stuff that required command lines was harder, but I
               | think that was niche and very few people understood it.
               | 
               | And this is why I'm telling you that millennials were
               | more computer literate :D.
               | 
               | We grew up when this old stuff that required command
               | lines was the norm. Maybe you had to be there.
               | 
               | The user experience drastically improved in pretty much
               | every way as I got older. My first computer was DOS which
               | is just a command line. Imagine doing everything through
               | iTerm2 and that's how I and a fair number of millennials
               | (particularly older millennials) interacted with
               | computers.
               | 
               | Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 weren't much more than
               | wrappers over dos. For a lot of programs you'd install
               | (Doom for example, but also games like Warcraft and
               | Warcraft II) you still had to do a lot of the work I
               | described above to get them functional.
               | 
               | From a windows perspective it really wasn't until windows
               | XP or so that things became as smooth as you experienced.
               | Everything before that was DEEPLY exposing nearly every
               | aspect of how a computer worked to the end user.
               | 
               | Mac was a bit different, it was always somewhat easier to
               | use than Windows was. However, I and most of my friends
               | dealt primarily with windows machines because that's
               | where the games were all at (and they were cheaper for
               | the hardware you got).
               | 
               | My generation was the one where computers became cheap
               | enough that everyone had one, yet still ran software
               | written primarily for more technical computer people. OS
               | and software devs spent literally decades polishing the
               | UX by the time the first Gen Zers rolled around.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | So the average millennial actually used a PC regularly
               | for these things? When I look online, I see something
               | like only 15% of households had a PC in 1990, which is
               | about what I expected. But then there's school and
               | libraries.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | Yes.
               | 
               | > When I look online, I see something like only 15% of
               | households had a PC in 1990
               | 
               | Millennials go from 80 to 95. The oldest millennials were
               | 9 at 1990. Just 5 years later, 1995, household computers
               | rose to 39% in the US.
               | 
               | For most millennials that boom in computers happened
               | right at their formative years. The millennials were also
               | driving a lot of it. Parents got computers for their
               | kids.
        
               | sangnoir wrote:
               | > I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS
               | that does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work
               | from the end user. That's sort of where I see the
               | computer illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do
               | a lot to try and hide away what computers are behind nice
               | app icons
               | 
               | Crostini allows for full-blown Linux VMs. I would have
               | killed for a click-to-reinstall Linux sandbox in my
               | childhood.
        
               | sangnoir wrote:
               | > I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS
               | that does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work
               | from the end user. That's sort of where I see the
               | computer illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do
               | a lot to try and hide away what computers are behind nice
               | app icons
               | 
               | Crostini allows for full-blown Linux VMs on ChromeOS. I
               | would have killed for a click-to-reinstall Linux sandbox
               | in my childhood.
        
               | asdff wrote:
               | There is a big split in computer literacy whether they
               | gamed on xbox or gamed on pc during those years.
        
               | Lio wrote:
               | Gen-X was the first generation to grow up with home
               | computers not Millennials.
               | 
               | Everybody I knew growing up had an 8 bit computer of some
               | sort.
               | 
               | Spectrums, ZX-81s, Beebs, C64s, VIC-20s and Amstrads were
               | everywhere.
               | 
               | They were followed in the mid to late 80s by PCs,
               | Archimedes, Amigas and STs.
               | 
               | Gen-X typed in BASIC and assembly language programs from
               | magazines in the local newsagent. We peeked and poked to
               | hack our games.
               | 
               | We argued at school about which computer platform was
               | best and it meant more than just PC vs Mac.
               | 
               | That experience was mostly gone by the time the oldest
               | millennials were teenagers.
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | I'm not sure they were as widespread as you think. I was
               | born in the late 70s, and while we did get a ti-99/4a
               | when they hit the bargain bin, I didn't have another
               | computer at home until I started college in the 90s.
               | Until then I had to use the computer lab at school
               | because they were simply too expensive for us to own one
               | at home.
               | 
               | And the TI I had was of limited use when I had to use it
               | on the family TV and any basic I typed couldn't be saved
               | because we didn't have the floppy drive.
        
               | Lio wrote:
               | Might depend on location but in the UK and most of Europe
               | at least, 8 bit computers were very, very common.
               | 
               | The ZX Spectrum went for about PS99, that was pretty
               | cheap even back then. The less capable ZX81 was only PS49
               | in kit form.
               | 
               | Games consoles were not common here until the 90s because
               | of the wide take up of home computers.
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | > Gen-X was the first generation to grow up with home
               | computers not Millennials. > Everybody I knew growing up
               | had an 8 bit computer of some sort.
               | 
               | My anecdotal experience is that while Gen X were the
               | first generation who could have grown up with a home
               | computer, it still wasn't that common until a fair bit
               | later.
               | 
               | I'm smack bang in the middle of the Millennial
               | generation, and we first got a home computer when I was
               | 11, and at that time I'd say it was 50/50 whether
               | someone's family had a home computer.
        
             | organsnyder wrote:
             | I was born in 84. My dad was an early adopter of PCs and
             | online communication (BBSes, CompuServe, and later the
             | Internet), and we always had a computer in the house. I
             | also got to tinker with his old machines when he upgraded,
             | which taught me a lot.
             | 
             | However, having a home computer was still somewhat of a
             | luxury, and definitely not a necessity until at least high
             | school for me. It wasn't until college that I could ask
             | someone what their email address was without first asking
             | whether they had email at all.
        
           | hot_gril wrote:
           | I don't know if you're thinking about all the millennials or
           | just a few. PCs weren't as common in the early 90s.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | I know there's computer illiterate millennials. If you
             | could turn it into a literacy ranking or percentage my
             | argument is that more millennials (by a large margin) are
             | computer literate than any other generation.
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | I think that's gen Z. For the younger half, you might
               | have to decide whether or not a Chromebook qualifies as a
               | PC, but idk if it even matters because Mac/Windows PCs
               | are still necessary for work or used for games.
        
               | nicksergeant wrote:
               | I could be mistaken but I think parent is referring to
               | computer literacy as the interest in tinkering with
               | and/or programming computers, not just using them to
               | write school papers.
               | 
               | I too am quite fearful of the fact that I know zero kids
               | under the age of 15 who have any interest in learning how
               | computers work, despite being completely surrounded by
               | them since age 8 or 9 (via school-issued Chromebooks).
        
               | hot_gril wrote:
               | I'm 28, and when I was 15, I didn't know anyone tinkering
               | with computers either. Besides myself, and the other kids
               | at school didn't take kindly to that.
               | 
               | Now I do know a lot of kids under 15 doing computer
               | tinkering, usually gaming PCs. If anything, I'm worried
               | that they do it too much.
        
             | JeremyHerrman wrote:
             | Sure, computers grew in popularity throughout the 90s but I
             | wouldn't call them uncommon in the early 90s - they were
             | all over the place especially in schools.
             | 
             | My kindergarten classroom had an Apple II in 1989. Our
             | first grade classroom had old IBM PCs.
             | 
             | My parents bought our first computer in '94 and we were one
             | of the later families to have one (these were actual middle
             | class families).
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | PC as such no much.
             | 
             | Spectrums, Commodore, Atari, Amiga, PC, Acorn, as home
             | computers ecosystem surely.
             | 
             | At least in Europe we weren't that much into consoles,
             | having a home system was one from the list above.
        
             | bluedino wrote:
             | They weren't?
             | 
             | My view is certainly skewed since we had a 386SX, but there
             | were tens of thousands of BBS's running back then. Online
             | services exploded in the early 90's, shareware games like
             | Doom and Wolfenstein sold hundreds of thousands of copies.
             | In 1992, Gateway 2000 surpassed Dell by selling over a
             | billion dollars in PC's.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | > What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
           | computer illiterate by and large.
           | 
           | That really depends on how you define computer literate,
           | because I'm seeing some incredible work being done by the
           | younger generations, both for modern computers, but also for
           | the machines of my youth in the 80s and 90s. Most of the Gen
           | Z I previously taught might not know Excel, Word or even
           | Windows, but they certainly knows how to use and abuse Google
           | Docs and Sheets.
           | 
           | As for deep knowledge on the inner workings of a PC, I don't
           | think they are worse of then previous generations. You have a
           | tiny group of absolute geniuses, a small, but larger group of
           | above average who will become future engineers and
           | developers, then an tiny group of people who can operate
           | modern Windows applications will insane skill levels, and
           | finally the reset, who can sort of get by.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | > I'm seeing some incredible work being done by the younger
             | generations, both for modern computers, but also for the
             | machines of my youth in the 80s and 90s.
             | 
             | I don't dispute that. The younger generations have a huge
             | leg up in terms of available educational resources.
             | 
             | My point is more that the average millennial will be
             | computer literate while the average genz or alpha will not.
             | By literate I mean having a basic understanding of how
             | computers work. Like what a file is, how to find them, what
             | a hard drive or mouse is and does. How to type.
             | 
             | I didn't doubt that the younger Gens will likely run
             | circles around me in terms of programming. Similar to how
             | there were really smart computer literate gen x and
             | boomers.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Yes, as Gen X still into gaming, it is kind of interesting
           | seeing all those remarks about the rise of PC gaming, PC
           | gaming, alongside 8 and 16 bit home computers were all that
           | we had, in Europe almost no one was that into consoles.
           | 
           | They existed surely, with SEGA on the forefront, but not
           | something most households cared about.
           | 
           | Home computers gaming was what the majority of us had.
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Well, those wild/creative designs WERE the "practical work
         | tools". Check out the PowerMac G3, this thing looks totally
         | colourful and silly but this was the most powerful machine
         | Apple made at the time:
         | https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhutton/48688728841/ (also dang I
         | still really want one, still haven't found a good deal on one
         | lol)
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I owned a G3 that was the last beige box Apple made before
           | that clear plastic Fisher Price looking unit. I didn't mind
           | the colorful iMacs. In my mind, the iMacs were fun things and
           | the colors were okay, but the towers were meant to be serious
           | computers and fun is just not allowed or something moronic.
           | Those towers were just something I never cared for with no
           | real reason. Oh, and the hockey puck mouse that came out
           | around that time. Yuck
        
           | hot_gril wrote:
           | or the G4 Cube
        
           | webworker wrote:
           | There's a cache of them in a storage unit east of Atlanta.
           | You can still find the listing on Facebook marketplace.
           | 
           | I bought a B&W machine from the guy for $50 or $60.
           | 
           | Also grabbed a G4 Digital Audio tower. To my surprise, it was
           | a top-end 733 MHz model.
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | It's reported to be making a comeback with the upcoming HomePod
         | that has screen that can rotate to follow your presence
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | that's not creepy at all. why would that sound like a good
           | idea that someone would want?
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | So the screen is clearly visible, no matter which side of
             | the kitchen island you're on?
             | 
             | Especially if the screen is showing a recipe, unit
             | conversion, timers, etc.
             | 
             | If it's silent, that seems like it could be really cool.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | Love to see a cylindrical, wraparound screen. (Very
               | silent.)
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | That's really interesting. Or a hemisphere. And it only
               | lights up in the direction you're looking at it from.
        
             | wahnfrieden wrote:
             | for one, people like to record videos or do video calls
             | without needing someone to hold the phone. they helped ship
             | iphone accessories for this already, recently
             | 
             | another use case is for watching something or interacting
             | with it via voice when your hands are tied up doing
             | something else or from a distance. same value as vision pro
             | without the goggles or isolation
        
         | firecall wrote:
         | At least Framework released a new Desktop
         | 
         | And they tried to be fun with it!
         | 
         | The 3D printed tiles on the front are a very cool idea and just
         | perfect right now I think! :-)
         | 
         | https://frame.work/au/en/desktop
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | I also like the colored backs on the 12 inch laptop they
           | announced
        
         | remir wrote:
         | To me, that kind of product is what sets Apple apart from other
         | companies in the industry. There's an optimism and playfulnes
         | to that design that is refreshing.
        
           | WWLink wrote:
           | Apple always made things for the users. Microsoft always made
           | things to sell to corporations. Dell always did the same, and
           | their consumer offerings were always a shallow and shitty
           | shell over their corporate ones (and this is STILL true! The
           | alienware towers are generally just an ugly veneer on top of
           | an optiflex case/motherboard LOL).
        
             | EndShell wrote:
             | While that all maybe true. All my Apple kit is dead from a
             | decade or more ago except for the G4 Mac Mini (which is
             | useless btw). The Dell and Thinkpads I have all still work
             | and work quite well and are easy to repair. Repairing Apple
             | stuff is always a nightmare and always more expensive.
        
         | divbzero wrote:
         | The hardware components have become so small that there is no
         | longer a need to design a creative enclosure. All-in-one
         | computers--phone, tablet, or desktop--can now approach the
         | Platonic ideal of that single flat screen.
        
           | abraxas wrote:
           | Except when they can't. A good GPU still won't fit in a flat
           | case that you describe. And things like the current gen imac
           | feel a little pointless as they are basically laptop guts
           | with a larger screen bundled in. I'd rather get a laptop and
           | a second screen for it than one of those.
        
             | thesuitonym wrote:
             | You might want that, but there are plenty of people who
             | just want to have their computer sit on their desk.
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | The ironic thing is, when Steve Jobs introduced this form
         | factor, he made a joke about the "obvious" choice just being a
         | flat slab with the computer guts tucked behind the monitor. But
         | Apple would _never_ do something that boring!
         | https://youtu.be/k74NgDbR7gI?si=zEgsUiQazXB5f1dP&t=3777
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | ? he clearly explains that they couldn't place the CD/DVD
           | drive vertically without reducing the read/write speeds by a
           | lot
        
             | hot_gril wrote:
             | Anecdotally, the CD/DVD drive in the G5 was super
             | unreliable.
        
           | WWLink wrote:
           | The imac g5 that followed was such a boring and ugly design
           | compared to the G4. There was no mistaking that LOL. I don't
           | think anyone liked it.
        
             | tonyedgecombe wrote:
             | It looked good on the inside.
        
           | webworker wrote:
           | The really should have kept that design around longer,
           | iterated on it.
           | 
           | Maybe it just wasn't possible to put a G5 on that small of a
           | logic board, but it's still an absolutely stunning computer.
           | I have one sitting on my kitchen counter right now!
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | I'm realizing that there may be people here who are too young
         | to remember how great the ad for this was:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/b5P3QDm61go?si=eCDEa-9KKjG0b7fQ
        
           | abraxas wrote:
           | The amazing thing is that we currently have all the tech to
           | make that ad work in reality where back when this was shot,
           | it was pure sci-fi.
        
             | mortenjorck wrote:
             | Whether or not it will ever see the light of day (and what
             | use case it will actually solve) is another question, but
             | it's basically confirmed that Apple is in fact working on
             | this!
             | 
             | https://www.macrumors.com/2024/08/19/apple-robot-spotted-
             | in-...
        
         | hot_gril wrote:
         | It's wild to me how many very different iMac form factors there
         | were a few years apart. Somehow as a little kid, I remember
         | seeing the iMac G3 and G5 (and the eMac) everywhere but not the
         | iMac G4 until much later. One day was like, wut is that.
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | > and then the world moved past that
         | 
         | I'm 100% sure it was just too expensive to keep making.
         | 
         | Jobs probably said "price be damned, I love this thing and the
         | manufacturing cost will go down over time" and it didn't.
        
         | starkparker wrote:
         | Moving the ports from the stand to the back of the display
         | remains the single most baffling decision of the iMac line,
         | regardless of everything else.
         | 
         | The stand is stationary regardless of the display angle and way
         | more conducive to stable cable management. The last few
         | generations of iMac made removing the stand technically not a
         | user-serviceable action, so manufacturing USB-hub stand risers
         | custom-fit to iMacs is practically its own industry.
         | 
         | A device still bound by mandates to be unnecessarily thin and
         | light, and with an arbitrarily non-removable stand, can still
         | make the stand a few centimeters thicker, run a fixed line from
         | the logic board and into the stand, and put some or all of the
         | ports inside it.
         | 
         | Hell, go wild and make the bottom of the stand a full inch
         | thick, and you could put a user-accessible m.2 port in it,[1]
         | but that damages the justification for upcharging $200 to add
         | 256GB of storage.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.amazon.com/PULWTOP-Adapter-Accessories-
         | Docking-I...
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | Why was the Mac's keyboard so chubby?
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | The one depicted in the first photo is from ~1984, which might
         | explain the relative chonkiness of it (all computer hardware
         | back then was pretty thicc). Unless you mean some newer model
         | that isn't shown in the post?
        
       | andrekandre wrote:
       | i feel like this imac design is a kind of statement somehow...
       | its interesting that apple at their most desperate was so risk-
       | taking and bold with designs, but now when they are so successful
       | the boldness is more on the inside (m1, neural engine etc) than
       | outside....
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | Desktops provided a lot more room to try things. Now that
         | everything is laptops it's pretty clear why you might want to
         | just make a very simple design.
         | 
         | Apple did make the trashcan Mac Pro, but of course that ended
         | up having problems and was made at just the wrong time. The
         | newer models harken back to the cheese graters but with fancier
         | holes and a smaller overall size.
         | 
         | A new version of that Mac as an iMac with a bigger screen would
         | be amazing. But given screen sizes maybe it would need a really
         | heavy weighted base to survive well.
        
           | MiddleEndian wrote:
           | Funny enough Microsoft of all companies has been a bit more
           | creative with hardware designs lately with the SurfaceBook,
           | Surface Laptop Studio, and Surface Studio lines. Of course
           | they aren't without their issues
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | I'd say it's the shift from the Apple trying bold things to
         | grab the attention and not go under (with Jobs as the CEO) to
         | the current Apple just trying to keep the status quo and
         | positive reviews.
        
       | jasongill wrote:
       | "there is noticeable color banding on the screen"
       | 
       | The LCD panel in the G4 iMac is only 6 bits per pixel, compared
       | to 10 bits per pixel on a modern Macbook Pro or similar, so the
       | banding is just the dithering required to display the gradient
       | shadow
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | Really? Apple sold the device as capable of displaying
         | "millions of colors" which you don't get to with 6 bits per
         | pixel.
        
           | LocalH wrote:
           | You do with temporal dithering
        
             | jrmg wrote:
             | Was going to post this too. It was a popular technique for
             | getting 'more colors' out of lower bit depth panels.
             | 
             | Weirdly hard to find out with a web search if his was done
             | on the iMac G4 (your comment is already one of the top
             | results for me on Google and DDG!).
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Thousands and "millions of colors" in the control panel came
           | from the CRT days. Guess they didn't have the heart to reduce
           | that just because the display device didn't fully support it.
        
             | bzzzt wrote:
             | It's the difference between 16 bits per pixel and 32 bits
             | per pixel in VRAM.
             | 
             | A screen using 18 bits per pixel (6 bits per color) would
             | need the 'millions of colors' mode unless Apple designed
             | some clever hack.
        
           | jasongill wrote:
           | Yes, it's an LG LM171W02-TTA1 which is a 6-bit TN panel; most
           | (all?) TN panels of that era were 6-bit at best, so it could
           | only display ~256k colors
        
             | rendaw wrote:
             | It sounds like you're disagreeing, but GP is right per
             | https://support.apple.com/en-us/112313
             | 
             | > 15-inch (viewable) TFT active-matrix LCD, 1024 by 768
             | pixels, millions of colors
             | 
             | I'm not super familiar with macs, but AFAICT that's the
             | product being described here.
        
               | jasongill wrote:
               | It's most definitely a LM171W02 panel in the iMac G4
               | which is definitely a 6-bit panel, you can see the specs
               | here: https://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM
               | 171W02&se... all of the LM171W02 panel family are 6-bit
               | (notice the colors column lists 262k)
               | 
               | Edit: I see you linked to the entire G4 lineup specs. The
               | 15" is a LM151X2 and also has only 262k colors: https://w
               | ww.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM151X2&sea...
               | 
               | but the 20" is a LM201U04 with an IPS panel that could
               | display millions of colors with 8 bits per channel https:
               | //www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM201U04&se...
               | 
               | so we can assume that Apple is simply using dithering to
               | count as "millions of colors" on the lower models
        
               | rendaw wrote:
               | Okay fair enough, but then... did Apple just straight up
               | lie about the specs?
        
               | jasongill wrote:
               | I wouldn't say they lied so much as they obfuscated the
               | truth; the machine supported millions of colors, and with
               | dithering techniques the monitor could look like it was
               | displaying quite a lot of colors, but only the 20"
               | display could display millions of colors without
               | dithering (which was just like basically every other TN-
               | based machine and display of the time)
        
               | trinix912 wrote:
               | The "millions of colors" was a part of a lawsuit by some
               | photographers who found out it wasn't actually millions.
               | 
               | https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/26/apple_settles_
               | mil...
        
               | rendaw wrote:
               | Ah! Okay, that explains the dissonance.
        
             | js2 wrote:
             | Thank you for the clarification.
        
         | Toutouxc wrote:
         | > so the banding is just the dithering required to display
         | 
         | I know what you're trying to say, but this sounds weird.
         | Dithering is a technique employed to PREVENT banding, it does
         | not cause banding.
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | If I could choose only one computer design to have for the rest
       | of my life, it would be this one. So cool. I hope jcs sold the
       | spare parts or is otherwise hanging onto them for future
       | use/donation/sale (rather than scrapping them). Parts for older
       | computers are harder to find every day, unsurprisingly.
        
       | locusofself wrote:
       | This is certainly fun and that iMac definitely has a cool design,
       | but I'll keep my 27+ inch monitor and 4k (or better yet Retina)..
        
       | xqcgrek2 wrote:
       | This computer is older than my graduate student...
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | I had one of these! I think the common nicknames were "lampshade"
       | or "half dome" at the time. I wrote my graduate thesis on it.
       | 
       | It was a very capable Mac that could even play 3D games smoothly
       | - Wolfenstein and a bundled game for kids about escaped aliens
       | who crash landed out west.
       | 
       | One of the best features was the swivel screen, which you could
       | easily whip around to show something to someone else in the room.
        
         | microtherion wrote:
         | I've often heard it called "Luxo Jr.", after the Pixar short
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3O60o5U7w
         | 
         | Made particular sense since Steve was majority shareholder of
         | Pixar as well at the time.
        
       | classichasclass wrote:
       | Still have a 15" 1.25GHz iMac G4 on my desk, still works, runs
       | Tiger. I mostly use it as a terminal and for Classic apps, but it
       | does very well at both. Occasionally it plays DVDs or music CDs
       | for the kitchen with a set of Pro Speakers.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | I was working at Apple when that particular model Mac was being
       | developed. Those of us with no need-to-know got odd prototypes
       | that looked more like a steel ammo box with bundle of cables
       | coming out the back -- tethered to a display that you had to prop
       | up (some people might have got a kind of simple stand for the
       | display).
       | 
       | In any event, the elaborate arm mechanism, dome plastics we would
       | not know until the model was unveiled to the world at whatever
       | the event was.
       | 
       | Before that though, the steel box didn't stop us from opening it
       | up to look inside. Though our steel enclosures had something
       | closer to a baseball "home plate" footprint, when we peeked
       | inside we saw the circular PCB and knew we were being duped.
       | 
       | With the dangly display they seemed to go quicker than other
       | prototypes to the dumpsters left in Apple's hallways when the
       | actual product was released. I am aware of three MAME machines I
       | built around discarded prototypes. (Shhh!!!!)
       | 
       | I think two of the three prototypes running MAME died eventually
       | -- the third I left behind at Apple when I retired. So, fate
       | unknown.
       | 
       | Shortly after though is probably when Apple started locking the
       | dumpsters to keep out the divers like me. (Well, probably more to
       | keep them from ending up on eBay I suspect.)
        
         | hot_gril wrote:
         | The design is practically begging for someone to try swapping
         | out the computer side. It's almost like a tower-and-screen
         | setup.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | People have done it. The most recent Mac mini's are so small
           | that their guts can be crammed in the bottom if you replace
           | the original board and power supply. Then put a brand new
           | screen up at the top and run the wires through the arm and
           | you get something really cool.
        
             | classichasclass wrote:
             | Isn't that basically what the article is?
        
               | MBCook wrote:
               | It's close. Unless I misunderstood something I thought
               | the Mac mini was being kept out of the case and was
               | actually somewhere else and then plugged into it with
               | HDMI or something. I thought the old iMac was basically
               | acting as a fancy monitor stand with built in display
               | (later upgraded).
        
               | classichasclass wrote:
               | No, he's got it in there (2nd and 3rd images from the
               | bottom). The power button peeps out through the RAM door.
        
               | MBCook wrote:
               | Oh
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Not really, the dock board doesn't require a screen
               | replacement.
               | 
               | Edit: oops needed to read further on. You're right.
               | 
               | Ps:
               | 
               | > I'm not sure whether the DockLite or the 20-year old
               | LCD screen is to blame for this, but there is noticeable
               | color banding on the screen, especially with macOS window
               | shadows.
               | 
               | Yeah that would be the LCD. In those days most LCDs were
               | pretty crappy 6-bit TN panels.
        
               | cbogie wrote:
               | yeah that's how i understood the article.
               | 
               | or at least pretend to believe i understand it.
               | 
               | as with most newly introduced concepts
        
         | gigatexal wrote:
         | It's so cute!!!
         | 
         | I wish Apple would release a retro line like this and with it
         | the M4 chips.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | For all intents and porpoises, it should be the video HomePod
           | variant.
           | 
           | edit: ... with a "Follow Me" FaceTime camera
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | But this camera turns the screen to follow you.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | After all the DEI shenanigans, Apple should bring the rainbow
           | apple logo back.
           | 
           | They'd probably lose all federal contracts for four years,
           | but they'd gain some even more dedicated following.
        
             | WillAdams wrote:
             | While I bitterly objected to Steve Jobs cancelling the
             | Newton (apparently one of the reasons was the USMC having
             | great success testing them for battlefield use and being on
             | the verge of a general deployment/contract and SJ not
             | wanting to be a Defense Contractor), I'll have to buy
             | something (my first Apple purchase for myself since buying
             | OpenSTEP 4.2) if Apple continues to be the only principled
             | multi-national.
        
       | mig39 wrote:
       | The best part of this is the "screensaver" that kicks in on the
       | webpage when you leave it idle for a few minutes.
        
       | cdolan wrote:
       | These are some of my favorite macs.
       | 
       | Would be REALLY cool to see a mod where the shell supported a Mac
       | Mini AND a DVD Drive
       | 
       | Would really love to put a series of Diablo 2 discs into this, or
       | Warcraft 3, and play
        
       | kls0e wrote:
       | well-tempered sophistication, great result. thank you
        
       | meebee wrote:
       | This is exactly the type of project I would love to do to my 2017
       | 27" iMac Retina 5k. It's getting a bit slow, so I would love to
       | salvage the beautiful screen and drive it with a new mini. But
       | alas I can't find any similar kits like the Juicy Crumb Docklite.
        
         | bloomingkales wrote:
         | What is so difficult about allowing that screen to be powered
         | by another computer? Apple is really crazy, because I know that
         | screen costs a fortune.
        
           | klausa wrote:
           | When that Mac was first released, there was literally no
           | external connection that would let you drive that display.
           | 
           | HDMI and DP at the time didn't have enough bandwidth to
           | support 5k60.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | https://stonetaskin.com/products/diy-5k-universal-r1811-v-4-...
        
         | dwood_dev wrote:
         | Looks like you can do that for $200-$300.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1f9s8kk/comment/luquux...
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | I have one of the first 5K iMacs from 2014. I contemplated
         | doing a similar project but I don't really want to destroy a
         | perfectly fine computer. It doesn't run the latest OS, but it
         | still runs the latest Chrome though. I often use it to SSH into
         | a more powerful machine for coding, and I occasionally use
         | remote desktop.
         | 
         | If Google decides not to support this for Chrome, I'll firewall
         | it from the internet but still plan to use it as an SSH
         | machine.
        
       | bloomingkales wrote:
       | They snapped an iPad on top of a HomePod. Either we're all fools,
       | or their design language is that good where they can just build
       | things like legos. Ives is a genius (hope I'm attributing it to
       | the right person).
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | Wow that docklite is amazing. Not supporting screen of on
       | blanking is a stupid oversight though.
       | 
       | Unfortunately my G4 iMac suffers from the lame arm issue which
       | affects most of them at this age. And it's difficult and kinda
       | dangerous to fix (a huuuge amount of tension on the spring).
       | 
       | I bought one used because it was such a beautiful machine. Most
       | beautiful Mac ever.
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | The best part of this design was that it felt so nice. Just
       | playing with the monitor adjustment was so satisfying and felt
       | like such a high quality product. Almost made up for the mouse.
       | Almost.
        
       | leonewton253 wrote:
       | Dope idea. Retro computing thats actually usable!
        
       | leonewton253 wrote:
       | 4x Resolution bump. 40x Computing bump. Nice upgrade!
        
         | replete wrote:
         | (3840 x 2400)/(1440 x 900) = 7.1111111111x. At retina this
         | would be like using a normal 109dpi screen with 20% smaller
         | pixels. _squints_
        
       | MiddleEndian wrote:
       | The iMac G4 is still the coolest looking computer IMO
        
       | olliebrkr wrote:
       | An iMac G4 was our families first computer. I've always regret
       | not saving it. The design still feels completely timeless.
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | This is so cool. Makes me want to do it. The working Mac plus is
       | giving me more motivation to fix the Lisa I have dormant.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-27 23:01 UTC)