[HN Gopher] iMac G4(K)
___________________________________________________________________
iMac G4(K)
Author : ingve
Score : 401 points
Date : 2025-02-26 22:25 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jcs.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (jcs.org)
| voidfunc wrote:
| This was my favorite iMac design.
| MarcelOlsz wrote:
| For a (somewhat) short period of time, school/college computer
| labs were awesome to walk into. It was fun seeing tons of multi
| colored G3's.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| I was in nearly the sweet spot for this in school computer
| labs as a kid so it felt like a long time to me. They only
| started to get boring looking when I graduated from high
| school.
| floren wrote:
| Conveniently color-coded so you could tell at a glance which
| were the older crappier ones!
| sejje wrote:
| At my school they all had Netscape navigator. So slow.
|
| We called it nutscrape
| Lammy wrote:
| Me too https://www.leisuretown.com/library/qac/25.html
| sejje wrote:
| Okay, but we were like 11 years old, so I don't think you
| got me there
| Lammy wrote:
| I'm not trying to "get" anybody? I did it too lol
| fredoralive wrote:
| I'm kinda split between it and the original G3 range (slot
| loading preferably, but in the original bright transparent
| colours before it got weird with stuff like "blue Dalmatian").
| The anglepoise Mac is kinda near beginning of the rather
| sterile Apple aesthetic that has never gone away, but it's also
| incredibly neat in a packaging sense that a CRT could never be.
| I kinda want a combination, but I'm not sure if you could get
| away with the colour bits on an all-in-one without the large
| area needed for the CRT neck...
|
| The Blue and White PowerMac G3 is my ultimate best looking Mac,
| there's something about the giant G3 on the sides, and the bold
| colours for what is a "professional" system. Sadly it all got
| toned down for the G4...
| voidfunc wrote:
| The G3 were cool in a different way. I miss the playful
| coloring of late 90s devices. Computers grew up but did we
| also need our game consoles to become soulless rip offs of
| Apple industrial design?
|
| Edit: I want a translucent atomic purple phone damnit!
| hot_gril wrote:
| It was late 90s / early 2000s specifically, right? N64 was
| colorful, GameCube a bit less, but not the SNES, Genesis,
| NES, etc. Kinda the same with the Mac GUIs.
| voidfunc wrote:
| Yea I'd say like 95 until 2001ish. Then everything got
| serious.
| amatecha wrote:
| Yeah, I have two of the G4's and while they are really nice,
| I'd love a PowerMac G3 sometime. I have G5's as well, and
| again they are cool, but not in the way the G3 was -- just so
| striking and IMO creativity-inspiring.
| webworker wrote:
| As a owner of both slot load and tray load G3's, I strongly
| prefer the tray loaders. The drives still work, while I have
| to jam a credit card with double-sided tape into the drive to
| get a disc out of the slot load drive.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| no reason computers couldn't have personality again
| joecool1029 wrote:
| BTW, this site has the flying toaster screensaver if you leave it
| open long enough. Nice easter egg!
| elheffe80 wrote:
| Glad I saw I wasn't the only one who found this. Nice easter
| egg indeed!!
| niwtsol wrote:
| I came to share the news as well, I see there are some other
| multi-taskers here!
| nalathna wrote:
| Also came to report the same! A wonderful retro flashback to
| cheer me up this morning.
| hadad wrote:
| seem using this web lib/app https://www.bryanbraun.com/after-
| dark-css/
| bsimpson wrote:
| It's wild that there was a feeling when that computer came out of
| "this is the coolest computer design ever," and then the world
| moved past that.
|
| You can look at the iMac line and see that they moved to a more
| laptopy everything-in-the-screen design, which got rid of the
| base altogether. But it's weird and sad that there was a "best"
| and then things that came after the best that were less fun, and
| two decades later we all still seem to feel that way.
|
| I suppose part of that was all the attention that shifted to
| touchscreen phones, and computers becoming thought of as
| practical work tools.
| SahAssar wrote:
| Looking at imac G3->G4->G5 each one was a huge step in design.
| I think the G4 stands out to me because the "floating" display
| was something I had never seen before.
| BuildTheRobots wrote:
| The G3 an G4 towers deserve extra special design mention.
| From a tinkering and engineering point of view, they were
| _lovely_ to work on.
| jshier wrote:
| Only the Bondi Blue G3 towers, the previous beige G3 towers
| were much worse to work on.
| cogman10 wrote:
| What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
| computer illiterate by and large.
|
| The reason old computers were fun is because all the hip young
| millennials loved them for everything. That has become much
| less the case as the younger generations do everything with a
| phone/tablet/or console. Just surfing the internet for my
| generation was a chore that is hard for the younger generations
| to understand.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
| computer illiterate by and large.
|
| That's something I've realized as well. There was a time
| where typing was something more and more people could do, but
| now nobody cares/needs to learn how. The number of households
| that had at least one computer was something I thought would
| get to pretty much everyone, but now there are more and more
| people with the only compute device being their phone. Owning
| a computer seems to be an age indicator like wearing tube
| socks.
| fjjjrjj wrote:
| I have a teenager and a elementary schooler and both enjoy
| PC gaming.
|
| The elder is interested in game development through his
| love of Roblox. I hope to help him get started with an IDE
| for lua, git, and a LLM and turn him loose on it.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > and a LLM
|
| this makes me nervous for proper learning of anything in
| the future. when the first step to learning is an LLM vs
| learning the basics with a good understanding and then
| moving to the "advanced" tools, I don't think this is
| really learning
| sejje wrote:
| The llm can teach you the basics. It's really good at it.
|
| You can't see if it's really learning or not until you
| see how it's used.
| dylan604 wrote:
| so now you're implying that everyone that has ever
| learned anything before an LLM could not see if they were
| really learning or not? the overly zealous pro-LLM crowd
| makes me sad that they cannot admit how ridiculous they
| sound to rationally thinking people
| pqtyw wrote:
| To me it seemed like the comment said the complete
| opposite of what you are implying? i.e. "llm can teach
| you the basics" BUT "You can't see if it's really
| learning or not until you see how it's used."
| sejje wrote:
| No, not at all.
|
| I'm saying you can't judge some learning process that
| you're not even witnessing.
|
| Maybe you haven't used an LLM to learn something; maybe
| you just let it write your code. Not everyone does that.
|
| When folks like you narrow arguments "everyone can only
| use the LLM exactly like I have, and if you do that, it
| really hinders your learning"---who sounds irrational?
| dylan604 wrote:
| the joke's on you then as I've never used an LLM. i see
| the results of other people using them, and i'm not
| impressed.
|
| so who's irrational now by assuming something completely
| off base?
| sejje wrote:
| You're vigorously defending your opinion on LLMs after
| never having used one?
|
| I think you've made my point
| dylan604 wrote:
| just because I don't use it doesn't mean I'm ignorant on
| the subject.
| sejje wrote:
| I see a lot of morphine addicts, so I'm not ignorant
| about morphine.
|
| Morphine is awful and should be banned--just look at
| these behaviors from addicts.
|
| If you talk to me about valid uses like "minimizing
| suffering for terminal patients," I'm going to put my
| fingers in my ears, because I've seen the addicts.
| fjjjrjj wrote:
| It can teach him game development better than I can. I
| have zero experience with it but I can teach him about
| the software development lifecycle, version control, and
| whatnot.
|
| If it sparks his interest he has a lot of life ahead of
| him to go deeper with it.
| matwood wrote:
| > this makes me nervous for proper learning of anything
| in the future
|
| I don't really understand this fear, particularly now
| with the reasoning models that explain why they did
| something.
| pqtyw wrote:
| Nobody is going to read and the "thoughts" they do output
| are hardly every particularly coherent or insightful
| (Deepseak is just sem-unhinged continuous rambling and
| Open AI of course hides most of the reasoning).
|
| Even if the steps/explanations were actually useful and
| insightful, though IMHO that's not remotely the same
| thing as figuring out the steps on your own.
| matwood wrote:
| When chatGPT corrects my writing, the explanations are
| actually quite helpful.
|
| > IMHO that's not remotely the same thing as figuring out
| the steps on your own.
|
| This is true with pretty much anything, but it doesn't
| mean we should ignore tools that can do those steps for
| you.
| Cyphase wrote:
| You're on HN leaving this comment. I don't think the
| children of HN commenters are representative. :)
| bsimpson wrote:
| You might be off by a generation.
|
| I was born in 86. My dad got the first Mac as he was
| graduating from college. I think I was 13 when the iMac G3
| and the X Public Beta came out.
|
| Computers were well entrenched in my childhood, but it was
| the people who were adults when we were children that
| designed the fun ones.
| cogman10 wrote:
| You're a millennial :)
|
| I agree that adults designed our fun computers but those
| were adults that specialized in making those devices. If
| you looked at the average Gen Xer of the era you'd find
| they have very little interaction with computers.
|
| It was our generation who had computers in the home as
| children. Very few of prior generations had that privilege.
| hot_gril wrote:
| Gen Z also had PCs in the home as children.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Had PCs, yes. Used PCs? IDK.
|
| Gen Z starts around 95. The ipod touch came out in 07.
| That means that the hot device to get came out when the
| oldest Gen Z turned 12.
|
| I'd grant that older genz were probably more exposed, but
| that exposure and familiarity pretty rapidly decreases as
| they age.
| hot_gril wrote:
| So I was born in '96. We actually used our elementary
| school PCs less than younger years because not as much
| work had been digitized yet, plus it wasn't a given that
| every student had internet at home. iPhones became hot
| 2009-2012 when I was in middle school (gen1 iPhone/iPt
| was too early), but everyone needed a PC at home for
| schoolwork, same in high school. We were fortunate enough
| to have a computer science class, which literally 10X'd
| in popularity the year after I took it. Later years also
| used laptops more for non-CS stuff.
|
| PC games were mainstream too, so it wasn't just work.
| Really hit me when the school jocks started joining my
| Minecraft server. Again I think consoles were actually
| more popular in earlier times, cause PCs couldn't run as
| many good games until the 2010s.
|
| I can't speak as much for the younger side of gen Z. I
| assume CS is still more popular among them, there are
| more PC video gamers than before, and there are
| Chromebooks if you count that. Not sure if iPads ever
| actually replaced PCs, besides it was always in Apple's
| interest not to cannibalize the Mac line.
| cogman10 wrote:
| I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS that
| does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work from
| the end user. That's sort of where I see the computer
| illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do a lot to
| try and hide away what computers are behind nice app
| icons.
|
| Even the rise of needing computers/internet access to do
| homework has sort of worked against learning how
| computers work. It's all bubble wrapped to hide away the
| nitty gritty details.
|
| And I'm not actually even saying this is a bad thing.
| It's just that the way you work with a computer is very
| different than it was for me. By the time you were
| exposed a lot of things had already been very simplified.
|
| Just to give you an idea of what I mean by that.
|
| For me to install a game on my old DOS computer, I had to
| work with potentially multiple 3.5 floppy disks. I'd run
| `cd A:\\` to get to the A drive where the floppy resided.
| From there I'd run `dir \w` to get a list of the files on
| the floppy disk. I'd be on the lookout for a `SETUP.EXE`
| or `INSTALL.EXE` file to start the install process. From
| there, the installation prompt would ask me a bunch of
| questions about my computer things like "What sort of
| sound card do you have"? "What is the IRQ port for your
| card"? "Do you have a VooDoo Graphics card"? "Where do
| you want to install this game (We recommend C:\DOOM)"?
|
| After some whirring and clicking the install would be
| complete and we'd have to `cd C:\DOOM` and run
| `DOOM.EXE`. There we'd run the executable and... shoot, I
| put in the wrong sound sound card, the wrong port, etc.
| It's at that point we'd have to diagnose the problem,
| maybe modify an .ini file. All from reading the manuals
| and past experience.
|
| It's that sort of experience that I have which made me
| intimately familiar with concepts like file systems and
| disk partitions. Familiar with random parts of a computer
| in ways that were vastly simplified. I mean, for example,
| I had to do things like installing new GPU drivers to
| make some games work properly. I couldn't just trust
| windows update to grab a relatively up to date (or even
| the correct) driver.
|
| That said, I'm 1000% sure your CS class was WAY better
| than my intro to programming. The resources I had for
| programming were really bad. It was a lot of self taught
| effort.
| hot_gril wrote:
| With this Mac in front of me, am I really digging into
| technical details more than on a Chromebook or iPhone?
| Taking away the iTerm2 window on the other screen (since
| not everyone is a programmer), all I've got is a web
| browser, calendar, and mail. In the OS X Tiger and WinXP
| days, probably the same plus iChat/AIM and MS Word. The
| trickiest thing was maybe saving a Word doc to a USB
| stick, which is still easier than using Google Drive.
|
| Old stuff that required command lines was harder, but I
| think that was niche and very few people understood it.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > Old stuff that required command lines was harder, but I
| think that was niche and very few people understood it.
|
| And this is why I'm telling you that millennials were
| more computer literate :D.
|
| We grew up when this old stuff that required command
| lines was the norm. Maybe you had to be there.
|
| The user experience drastically improved in pretty much
| every way as I got older. My first computer was DOS which
| is just a command line. Imagine doing everything through
| iTerm2 and that's how I and a fair number of millennials
| (particularly older millennials) interacted with
| computers.
|
| Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 weren't much more than
| wrappers over dos. For a lot of programs you'd install
| (Doom for example, but also games like Warcraft and
| Warcraft II) you still had to do a lot of the work I
| described above to get them functional.
|
| From a windows perspective it really wasn't until windows
| XP or so that things became as smooth as you experienced.
| Everything before that was DEEPLY exposing nearly every
| aspect of how a computer worked to the end user.
|
| Mac was a bit different, it was always somewhat easier to
| use than Windows was. However, I and most of my friends
| dealt primarily with windows machines because that's
| where the games were all at (and they were cheaper for
| the hardware you got).
|
| My generation was the one where computers became cheap
| enough that everyone had one, yet still ran software
| written primarily for more technical computer people. OS
| and software devs spent literally decades polishing the
| UX by the time the first Gen Zers rolled around.
| hot_gril wrote:
| So the average millennial actually used a PC regularly
| for these things? When I look online, I see something
| like only 15% of households had a PC in 1990, which is
| about what I expected. But then there's school and
| libraries.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Yes.
|
| > When I look online, I see something like only 15% of
| households had a PC in 1990
|
| Millennials go from 80 to 95. The oldest millennials were
| 9 at 1990. Just 5 years later, 1995, household computers
| rose to 39% in the US.
|
| For most millennials that boom in computers happened
| right at their formative years. The millennials were also
| driving a lot of it. Parents got computers for their
| kids.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS
| that does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work
| from the end user. That's sort of where I see the
| computer illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do
| a lot to try and hide away what computers are behind nice
| app icons
|
| Crostini allows for full-blown Linux VMs. I would have
| killed for a click-to-reinstall Linux sandbox in my
| childhood.
| sangnoir wrote:
| > I don't really count chromebooks because it's an OS
| that does a LOT to hide the details of how computers work
| from the end user. That's sort of where I see the
| computer illiteracy coming from. Android and iOS both do
| a lot to try and hide away what computers are behind nice
| app icons
|
| Crostini allows for full-blown Linux VMs on ChromeOS. I
| would have killed for a click-to-reinstall Linux sandbox
| in my childhood.
| asdff wrote:
| There is a big split in computer literacy whether they
| gamed on xbox or gamed on pc during those years.
| Lio wrote:
| Gen-X was the first generation to grow up with home
| computers not Millennials.
|
| Everybody I knew growing up had an 8 bit computer of some
| sort.
|
| Spectrums, ZX-81s, Beebs, C64s, VIC-20s and Amstrads were
| everywhere.
|
| They were followed in the mid to late 80s by PCs,
| Archimedes, Amigas and STs.
|
| Gen-X typed in BASIC and assembly language programs from
| magazines in the local newsagent. We peeked and poked to
| hack our games.
|
| We argued at school about which computer platform was
| best and it meant more than just PC vs Mac.
|
| That experience was mostly gone by the time the oldest
| millennials were teenagers.
| matwood wrote:
| I'm not sure they were as widespread as you think. I was
| born in the late 70s, and while we did get a ti-99/4a
| when they hit the bargain bin, I didn't have another
| computer at home until I started college in the 90s.
| Until then I had to use the computer lab at school
| because they were simply too expensive for us to own one
| at home.
|
| And the TI I had was of limited use when I had to use it
| on the family TV and any basic I typed couldn't be saved
| because we didn't have the floppy drive.
| Lio wrote:
| Might depend on location but in the UK and most of Europe
| at least, 8 bit computers were very, very common.
|
| The ZX Spectrum went for about PS99, that was pretty
| cheap even back then. The less capable ZX81 was only PS49
| in kit form.
|
| Games consoles were not common here until the 90s because
| of the wide take up of home computers.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| > Gen-X was the first generation to grow up with home
| computers not Millennials. > Everybody I knew growing up
| had an 8 bit computer of some sort.
|
| My anecdotal experience is that while Gen X were the
| first generation who could have grown up with a home
| computer, it still wasn't that common until a fair bit
| later.
|
| I'm smack bang in the middle of the Millennial
| generation, and we first got a home computer when I was
| 11, and at that time I'd say it was 50/50 whether
| someone's family had a home computer.
| organsnyder wrote:
| I was born in 84. My dad was an early adopter of PCs and
| online communication (BBSes, CompuServe, and later the
| Internet), and we always had a computer in the house. I
| also got to tinker with his old machines when he upgraded,
| which taught me a lot.
|
| However, having a home computer was still somewhat of a
| luxury, and definitely not a necessity until at least high
| school for me. It wasn't until college that I could ask
| someone what their email address was without first asking
| whether they had email at all.
| hot_gril wrote:
| I don't know if you're thinking about all the millennials or
| just a few. PCs weren't as common in the early 90s.
| cogman10 wrote:
| I know there's computer illiterate millennials. If you
| could turn it into a literacy ranking or percentage my
| argument is that more millennials (by a large margin) are
| computer literate than any other generation.
| hot_gril wrote:
| I think that's gen Z. For the younger half, you might
| have to decide whether or not a Chromebook qualifies as a
| PC, but idk if it even matters because Mac/Windows PCs
| are still necessary for work or used for games.
| nicksergeant wrote:
| I could be mistaken but I think parent is referring to
| computer literacy as the interest in tinkering with
| and/or programming computers, not just using them to
| write school papers.
|
| I too am quite fearful of the fact that I know zero kids
| under the age of 15 who have any interest in learning how
| computers work, despite being completely surrounded by
| them since age 8 or 9 (via school-issued Chromebooks).
| hot_gril wrote:
| I'm 28, and when I was 15, I didn't know anyone tinkering
| with computers either. Besides myself, and the other kids
| at school didn't take kindly to that.
|
| Now I do know a lot of kids under 15 doing computer
| tinkering, usually gaming PCs. If anything, I'm worried
| that they do it too much.
| JeremyHerrman wrote:
| Sure, computers grew in popularity throughout the 90s but I
| wouldn't call them uncommon in the early 90s - they were
| all over the place especially in schools.
|
| My kindergarten classroom had an Apple II in 1989. Our
| first grade classroom had old IBM PCs.
|
| My parents bought our first computer in '94 and we were one
| of the later families to have one (these were actual middle
| class families).
| pjmlp wrote:
| PC as such no much.
|
| Spectrums, Commodore, Atari, Amiga, PC, Acorn, as home
| computers ecosystem surely.
|
| At least in Europe we weren't that much into consoles,
| having a home system was one from the list above.
| bluedino wrote:
| They weren't?
|
| My view is certainly skewed since we had a 386SX, but there
| were tens of thousands of BBS's running back then. Online
| services exploded in the early 90's, shareware games like
| Doom and Wolfenstein sold hundreds of thousands of copies.
| In 1992, Gateway 2000 surpassed Dell by selling over a
| billion dollars in PC's.
| mrweasel wrote:
| > What's wild to me is that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are basically
| computer illiterate by and large.
|
| That really depends on how you define computer literate,
| because I'm seeing some incredible work being done by the
| younger generations, both for modern computers, but also for
| the machines of my youth in the 80s and 90s. Most of the Gen
| Z I previously taught might not know Excel, Word or even
| Windows, but they certainly knows how to use and abuse Google
| Docs and Sheets.
|
| As for deep knowledge on the inner workings of a PC, I don't
| think they are worse of then previous generations. You have a
| tiny group of absolute geniuses, a small, but larger group of
| above average who will become future engineers and
| developers, then an tiny group of people who can operate
| modern Windows applications will insane skill levels, and
| finally the reset, who can sort of get by.
| cogman10 wrote:
| > I'm seeing some incredible work being done by the younger
| generations, both for modern computers, but also for the
| machines of my youth in the 80s and 90s.
|
| I don't dispute that. The younger generations have a huge
| leg up in terms of available educational resources.
|
| My point is more that the average millennial will be
| computer literate while the average genz or alpha will not.
| By literate I mean having a basic understanding of how
| computers work. Like what a file is, how to find them, what
| a hard drive or mouse is and does. How to type.
|
| I didn't doubt that the younger Gens will likely run
| circles around me in terms of programming. Similar to how
| there were really smart computer literate gen x and
| boomers.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Yes, as Gen X still into gaming, it is kind of interesting
| seeing all those remarks about the rise of PC gaming, PC
| gaming, alongside 8 and 16 bit home computers were all that
| we had, in Europe almost no one was that into consoles.
|
| They existed surely, with SEGA on the forefront, but not
| something most households cared about.
|
| Home computers gaming was what the majority of us had.
| amatecha wrote:
| Well, those wild/creative designs WERE the "practical work
| tools". Check out the PowerMac G3, this thing looks totally
| colourful and silly but this was the most powerful machine
| Apple made at the time:
| https://www.flickr.com/photos/lhutton/48688728841/ (also dang I
| still really want one, still haven't found a good deal on one
| lol)
| dylan604 wrote:
| I owned a G3 that was the last beige box Apple made before
| that clear plastic Fisher Price looking unit. I didn't mind
| the colorful iMacs. In my mind, the iMacs were fun things and
| the colors were okay, but the towers were meant to be serious
| computers and fun is just not allowed or something moronic.
| Those towers were just something I never cared for with no
| real reason. Oh, and the hockey puck mouse that came out
| around that time. Yuck
| hot_gril wrote:
| or the G4 Cube
| webworker wrote:
| There's a cache of them in a storage unit east of Atlanta.
| You can still find the listing on Facebook marketplace.
|
| I bought a B&W machine from the guy for $50 or $60.
|
| Also grabbed a G4 Digital Audio tower. To my surprise, it was
| a top-end 733 MHz model.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| It's reported to be making a comeback with the upcoming HomePod
| that has screen that can rotate to follow your presence
| dylan604 wrote:
| that's not creepy at all. why would that sound like a good
| idea that someone would want?
| crazygringo wrote:
| So the screen is clearly visible, no matter which side of
| the kitchen island you're on?
|
| Especially if the screen is showing a recipe, unit
| conversion, timers, etc.
|
| If it's silent, that seems like it could be really cool.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Love to see a cylindrical, wraparound screen. (Very
| silent.)
| crazygringo wrote:
| That's really interesting. Or a hemisphere. And it only
| lights up in the direction you're looking at it from.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| for one, people like to record videos or do video calls
| without needing someone to hold the phone. they helped ship
| iphone accessories for this already, recently
|
| another use case is for watching something or interacting
| with it via voice when your hands are tied up doing
| something else or from a distance. same value as vision pro
| without the goggles or isolation
| firecall wrote:
| At least Framework released a new Desktop
|
| And they tried to be fun with it!
|
| The 3D printed tiles on the front are a very cool idea and just
| perfect right now I think! :-)
|
| https://frame.work/au/en/desktop
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| I also like the colored backs on the 12 inch laptop they
| announced
| remir wrote:
| To me, that kind of product is what sets Apple apart from other
| companies in the industry. There's an optimism and playfulnes
| to that design that is refreshing.
| WWLink wrote:
| Apple always made things for the users. Microsoft always made
| things to sell to corporations. Dell always did the same, and
| their consumer offerings were always a shallow and shitty
| shell over their corporate ones (and this is STILL true! The
| alienware towers are generally just an ugly veneer on top of
| an optiflex case/motherboard LOL).
| EndShell wrote:
| While that all maybe true. All my Apple kit is dead from a
| decade or more ago except for the G4 Mac Mini (which is
| useless btw). The Dell and Thinkpads I have all still work
| and work quite well and are easy to repair. Repairing Apple
| stuff is always a nightmare and always more expensive.
| divbzero wrote:
| The hardware components have become so small that there is no
| longer a need to design a creative enclosure. All-in-one
| computers--phone, tablet, or desktop--can now approach the
| Platonic ideal of that single flat screen.
| abraxas wrote:
| Except when they can't. A good GPU still won't fit in a flat
| case that you describe. And things like the current gen imac
| feel a little pointless as they are basically laptop guts
| with a larger screen bundled in. I'd rather get a laptop and
| a second screen for it than one of those.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| You might want that, but there are plenty of people who
| just want to have their computer sit on their desk.
| sgerenser wrote:
| The ironic thing is, when Steve Jobs introduced this form
| factor, he made a joke about the "obvious" choice just being a
| flat slab with the computer guts tucked behind the monitor. But
| Apple would _never_ do something that boring!
| https://youtu.be/k74NgDbR7gI?si=zEgsUiQazXB5f1dP&t=3777
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| ? he clearly explains that they couldn't place the CD/DVD
| drive vertically without reducing the read/write speeds by a
| lot
| hot_gril wrote:
| Anecdotally, the CD/DVD drive in the G5 was super
| unreliable.
| WWLink wrote:
| The imac g5 that followed was such a boring and ugly design
| compared to the G4. There was no mistaking that LOL. I don't
| think anyone liked it.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| It looked good on the inside.
| webworker wrote:
| The really should have kept that design around longer,
| iterated on it.
|
| Maybe it just wasn't possible to put a G5 on that small of a
| logic board, but it's still an absolutely stunning computer.
| I have one sitting on my kitchen counter right now!
| bsimpson wrote:
| I'm realizing that there may be people here who are too young
| to remember how great the ad for this was:
|
| https://youtu.be/b5P3QDm61go?si=eCDEa-9KKjG0b7fQ
| abraxas wrote:
| The amazing thing is that we currently have all the tech to
| make that ad work in reality where back when this was shot,
| it was pure sci-fi.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| Whether or not it will ever see the light of day (and what
| use case it will actually solve) is another question, but
| it's basically confirmed that Apple is in fact working on
| this!
|
| https://www.macrumors.com/2024/08/19/apple-robot-spotted-
| in-...
| hot_gril wrote:
| It's wild to me how many very different iMac form factors there
| were a few years apart. Somehow as a little kid, I remember
| seeing the iMac G3 and G5 (and the eMac) everywhere but not the
| iMac G4 until much later. One day was like, wut is that.
| Eric_WVGG wrote:
| > and then the world moved past that
|
| I'm 100% sure it was just too expensive to keep making.
|
| Jobs probably said "price be damned, I love this thing and the
| manufacturing cost will go down over time" and it didn't.
| starkparker wrote:
| Moving the ports from the stand to the back of the display
| remains the single most baffling decision of the iMac line,
| regardless of everything else.
|
| The stand is stationary regardless of the display angle and way
| more conducive to stable cable management. The last few
| generations of iMac made removing the stand technically not a
| user-serviceable action, so manufacturing USB-hub stand risers
| custom-fit to iMacs is practically its own industry.
|
| A device still bound by mandates to be unnecessarily thin and
| light, and with an arbitrarily non-removable stand, can still
| make the stand a few centimeters thicker, run a fixed line from
| the logic board and into the stand, and put some or all of the
| ports inside it.
|
| Hell, go wild and make the bottom of the stand a full inch
| thick, and you could put a user-accessible m.2 port in it,[1]
| but that damages the justification for upcharging $200 to add
| 256GB of storage.
|
| 1: https://www.amazon.com/PULWTOP-Adapter-Accessories-
| Docking-I...
| tiahura wrote:
| Why was the Mac's keyboard so chubby?
| amatecha wrote:
| The one depicted in the first photo is from ~1984, which might
| explain the relative chonkiness of it (all computer hardware
| back then was pretty thicc). Unless you mean some newer model
| that isn't shown in the post?
| andrekandre wrote:
| i feel like this imac design is a kind of statement somehow...
| its interesting that apple at their most desperate was so risk-
| taking and bold with designs, but now when they are so successful
| the boldness is more on the inside (m1, neural engine etc) than
| outside....
| MBCook wrote:
| Desktops provided a lot more room to try things. Now that
| everything is laptops it's pretty clear why you might want to
| just make a very simple design.
|
| Apple did make the trashcan Mac Pro, but of course that ended
| up having problems and was made at just the wrong time. The
| newer models harken back to the cheese graters but with fancier
| holes and a smaller overall size.
|
| A new version of that Mac as an iMac with a bigger screen would
| be amazing. But given screen sizes maybe it would need a really
| heavy weighted base to survive well.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| Funny enough Microsoft of all companies has been a bit more
| creative with hardware designs lately with the SurfaceBook,
| Surface Laptop Studio, and Surface Studio lines. Of course
| they aren't without their issues
| trinix912 wrote:
| I'd say it's the shift from the Apple trying bold things to
| grab the attention and not go under (with Jobs as the CEO) to
| the current Apple just trying to keep the status quo and
| positive reviews.
| jasongill wrote:
| "there is noticeable color banding on the screen"
|
| The LCD panel in the G4 iMac is only 6 bits per pixel, compared
| to 10 bits per pixel on a modern Macbook Pro or similar, so the
| banding is just the dithering required to display the gradient
| shadow
| js2 wrote:
| Really? Apple sold the device as capable of displaying
| "millions of colors" which you don't get to with 6 bits per
| pixel.
| LocalH wrote:
| You do with temporal dithering
| jrmg wrote:
| Was going to post this too. It was a popular technique for
| getting 'more colors' out of lower bit depth panels.
|
| Weirdly hard to find out with a web search if his was done
| on the iMac G4 (your comment is already one of the top
| results for me on Google and DDG!).
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Thousands and "millions of colors" in the control panel came
| from the CRT days. Guess they didn't have the heart to reduce
| that just because the display device didn't fully support it.
| bzzzt wrote:
| It's the difference between 16 bits per pixel and 32 bits
| per pixel in VRAM.
|
| A screen using 18 bits per pixel (6 bits per color) would
| need the 'millions of colors' mode unless Apple designed
| some clever hack.
| jasongill wrote:
| Yes, it's an LG LM171W02-TTA1 which is a 6-bit TN panel; most
| (all?) TN panels of that era were 6-bit at best, so it could
| only display ~256k colors
| rendaw wrote:
| It sounds like you're disagreeing, but GP is right per
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/112313
|
| > 15-inch (viewable) TFT active-matrix LCD, 1024 by 768
| pixels, millions of colors
|
| I'm not super familiar with macs, but AFAICT that's the
| product being described here.
| jasongill wrote:
| It's most definitely a LM171W02 panel in the iMac G4
| which is definitely a 6-bit panel, you can see the specs
| here: https://www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM
| 171W02&se... all of the LM171W02 panel family are 6-bit
| (notice the colors column lists 262k)
|
| Edit: I see you linked to the entire G4 lineup specs. The
| 15" is a LM151X2 and also has only 262k colors: https://w
| ww.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM151X2&sea...
|
| but the 20" is a LM201U04 with an IPS panel that could
| display millions of colors with 8 bits per channel https:
| //www.panelook.com/modelsearch.php?keyword=LM201U04&se...
|
| so we can assume that Apple is simply using dithering to
| count as "millions of colors" on the lower models
| rendaw wrote:
| Okay fair enough, but then... did Apple just straight up
| lie about the specs?
| jasongill wrote:
| I wouldn't say they lied so much as they obfuscated the
| truth; the machine supported millions of colors, and with
| dithering techniques the monitor could look like it was
| displaying quite a lot of colors, but only the 20"
| display could display millions of colors without
| dithering (which was just like basically every other TN-
| based machine and display of the time)
| trinix912 wrote:
| The "millions of colors" was a part of a lawsuit by some
| photographers who found out it wasn't actually millions.
|
| https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/26/apple_settles_
| mil...
| rendaw wrote:
| Ah! Okay, that explains the dissonance.
| js2 wrote:
| Thank you for the clarification.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| > so the banding is just the dithering required to display
|
| I know what you're trying to say, but this sounds weird.
| Dithering is a technique employed to PREVENT banding, it does
| not cause banding.
| amatecha wrote:
| If I could choose only one computer design to have for the rest
| of my life, it would be this one. So cool. I hope jcs sold the
| spare parts or is otherwise hanging onto them for future
| use/donation/sale (rather than scrapping them). Parts for older
| computers are harder to find every day, unsurprisingly.
| locusofself wrote:
| This is certainly fun and that iMac definitely has a cool design,
| but I'll keep my 27+ inch monitor and 4k (or better yet Retina)..
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| This computer is older than my graduate student...
| ilamont wrote:
| I had one of these! I think the common nicknames were "lampshade"
| or "half dome" at the time. I wrote my graduate thesis on it.
|
| It was a very capable Mac that could even play 3D games smoothly
| - Wolfenstein and a bundled game for kids about escaped aliens
| who crash landed out west.
|
| One of the best features was the swivel screen, which you could
| easily whip around to show something to someone else in the room.
| microtherion wrote:
| I've often heard it called "Luxo Jr.", after the Pixar short
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3O60o5U7w
|
| Made particular sense since Steve was majority shareholder of
| Pixar as well at the time.
| classichasclass wrote:
| Still have a 15" 1.25GHz iMac G4 on my desk, still works, runs
| Tiger. I mostly use it as a terminal and for Classic apps, but it
| does very well at both. Occasionally it plays DVDs or music CDs
| for the kitchen with a set of Pro Speakers.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I was working at Apple when that particular model Mac was being
| developed. Those of us with no need-to-know got odd prototypes
| that looked more like a steel ammo box with bundle of cables
| coming out the back -- tethered to a display that you had to prop
| up (some people might have got a kind of simple stand for the
| display).
|
| In any event, the elaborate arm mechanism, dome plastics we would
| not know until the model was unveiled to the world at whatever
| the event was.
|
| Before that though, the steel box didn't stop us from opening it
| up to look inside. Though our steel enclosures had something
| closer to a baseball "home plate" footprint, when we peeked
| inside we saw the circular PCB and knew we were being duped.
|
| With the dangly display they seemed to go quicker than other
| prototypes to the dumpsters left in Apple's hallways when the
| actual product was released. I am aware of three MAME machines I
| built around discarded prototypes. (Shhh!!!!)
|
| I think two of the three prototypes running MAME died eventually
| -- the third I left behind at Apple when I retired. So, fate
| unknown.
|
| Shortly after though is probably when Apple started locking the
| dumpsters to keep out the divers like me. (Well, probably more to
| keep them from ending up on eBay I suspect.)
| hot_gril wrote:
| The design is practically begging for someone to try swapping
| out the computer side. It's almost like a tower-and-screen
| setup.
| MBCook wrote:
| People have done it. The most recent Mac mini's are so small
| that their guts can be crammed in the bottom if you replace
| the original board and power supply. Then put a brand new
| screen up at the top and run the wires through the arm and
| you get something really cool.
| classichasclass wrote:
| Isn't that basically what the article is?
| MBCook wrote:
| It's close. Unless I misunderstood something I thought
| the Mac mini was being kept out of the case and was
| actually somewhere else and then plugged into it with
| HDMI or something. I thought the old iMac was basically
| acting as a fancy monitor stand with built in display
| (later upgraded).
| classichasclass wrote:
| No, he's got it in there (2nd and 3rd images from the
| bottom). The power button peeps out through the RAM door.
| MBCook wrote:
| Oh
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Not really, the dock board doesn't require a screen
| replacement.
|
| Edit: oops needed to read further on. You're right.
|
| Ps:
|
| > I'm not sure whether the DockLite or the 20-year old
| LCD screen is to blame for this, but there is noticeable
| color banding on the screen, especially with macOS window
| shadows.
|
| Yeah that would be the LCD. In those days most LCDs were
| pretty crappy 6-bit TN panels.
| cbogie wrote:
| yeah that's how i understood the article.
|
| or at least pretend to believe i understand it.
|
| as with most newly introduced concepts
| gigatexal wrote:
| It's so cute!!!
|
| I wish Apple would release a retro line like this and with it
| the M4 chips.
| xattt wrote:
| For all intents and porpoises, it should be the video HomePod
| variant.
|
| edit: ... with a "Follow Me" FaceTime camera
| rbanffy wrote:
| But this camera turns the screen to follow you.
| rbanffy wrote:
| After all the DEI shenanigans, Apple should bring the rainbow
| apple logo back.
|
| They'd probably lose all federal contracts for four years,
| but they'd gain some even more dedicated following.
| WillAdams wrote:
| While I bitterly objected to Steve Jobs cancelling the
| Newton (apparently one of the reasons was the USMC having
| great success testing them for battlefield use and being on
| the verge of a general deployment/contract and SJ not
| wanting to be a Defense Contractor), I'll have to buy
| something (my first Apple purchase for myself since buying
| OpenSTEP 4.2) if Apple continues to be the only principled
| multi-national.
| mig39 wrote:
| The best part of this is the "screensaver" that kicks in on the
| webpage when you leave it idle for a few minutes.
| cdolan wrote:
| These are some of my favorite macs.
|
| Would be REALLY cool to see a mod where the shell supported a Mac
| Mini AND a DVD Drive
|
| Would really love to put a series of Diablo 2 discs into this, or
| Warcraft 3, and play
| kls0e wrote:
| well-tempered sophistication, great result. thank you
| meebee wrote:
| This is exactly the type of project I would love to do to my 2017
| 27" iMac Retina 5k. It's getting a bit slow, so I would love to
| salvage the beautiful screen and drive it with a new mini. But
| alas I can't find any similar kits like the Juicy Crumb Docklite.
| bloomingkales wrote:
| What is so difficult about allowing that screen to be powered
| by another computer? Apple is really crazy, because I know that
| screen costs a fortune.
| klausa wrote:
| When that Mac was first released, there was literally no
| external connection that would let you drive that display.
|
| HDMI and DP at the time didn't have enough bandwidth to
| support 5k60.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| https://stonetaskin.com/products/diy-5k-universal-r1811-v-4-...
| dwood_dev wrote:
| Looks like you can do that for $200-$300.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1f9s8kk/comment/luquux...
| kccqzy wrote:
| I have one of the first 5K iMacs from 2014. I contemplated
| doing a similar project but I don't really want to destroy a
| perfectly fine computer. It doesn't run the latest OS, but it
| still runs the latest Chrome though. I often use it to SSH into
| a more powerful machine for coding, and I occasionally use
| remote desktop.
|
| If Google decides not to support this for Chrome, I'll firewall
| it from the internet but still plan to use it as an SSH
| machine.
| bloomingkales wrote:
| They snapped an iPad on top of a HomePod. Either we're all fools,
| or their design language is that good where they can just build
| things like legos. Ives is a genius (hope I'm attributing it to
| the right person).
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Wow that docklite is amazing. Not supporting screen of on
| blanking is a stupid oversight though.
|
| Unfortunately my G4 iMac suffers from the lame arm issue which
| affects most of them at this age. And it's difficult and kinda
| dangerous to fix (a huuuge amount of tension on the spring).
|
| I bought one used because it was such a beautiful machine. Most
| beautiful Mac ever.
| asdff wrote:
| The best part of this design was that it felt so nice. Just
| playing with the monitor adjustment was so satisfying and felt
| like such a high quality product. Almost made up for the mouse.
| Almost.
| leonewton253 wrote:
| Dope idea. Retro computing thats actually usable!
| leonewton253 wrote:
| 4x Resolution bump. 40x Computing bump. Nice upgrade!
| replete wrote:
| (3840 x 2400)/(1440 x 900) = 7.1111111111x. At retina this
| would be like using a normal 109dpi screen with 20% smaller
| pixels. _squints_
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| The iMac G4 is still the coolest looking computer IMO
| olliebrkr wrote:
| An iMac G4 was our families first computer. I've always regret
| not saving it. The design still feels completely timeless.
| yalogin wrote:
| This is so cool. Makes me want to do it. The working Mac plus is
| giving me more motivation to fix the Lisa I have dormant.
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