[HN Gopher] Ggwave: Tiny Data-over-Sound Library
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Ggwave: Tiny Data-over-Sound Library
Author : LorenDB
Score : 77 points
Date : 2025-02-24 18:09 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| genewitch wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtNagNezo8w in action
| (ostensibly) - a demo i just saw.
|
| it is a software modem using FSK, but i don't know anything else
| about it. I am annoyed because i could have had this idea; i'm a
| HAM who really only cares about "Digital Modes", and have
| software modems capable of isdn speeds over "AF"
| knowaveragejoe wrote:
| That's really neat! I realize this demo is a contrived setup,
| but it is basically an example of what Eric Schmidt was talking
| about when agents start communicating in ways we can't
| understand.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Yeah I watched this last night and immediately thought of
| skynet and how dystopian the world could become in the next few
| years/decades.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| There are dozens of these in existence. Some you may have used
| without knowing even, eg:
| https://www.engadget.com/2014-06-27-chromecast-ultrasonic-pa...
|
| This is also how modems used to work, for the young'uns who do
| not know this.
| genewitch wrote:
| >This is also how modems used to work
|
| they still do, but they used to too.
| codetrotter wrote:
| Outside of hobbyists that do it for fun, and maybe some data
| centers using it as an out-of-band means of access, is anyone
| still using dial-up?
| flyinghamster wrote:
| There might still be credit card terminals using 300 bps
| Bell 103 (which has a short set-up time due to its lack of
| training sequences).
|
| 1200 bps V.23 and Bell 202 are still in use in radio
| telemetry applications.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| Many aviation fuel pumps in far-out-of-the-way airports use
| dial-up to authenticate credit cards swiped to pay for the
| fuel.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Outside of hobbyists that do it for fun, and maybe some
| data centers using it as an out-of-band means of access, is
| anyone still using dial-up?_
|
| I use it to connect to a Windows machine that runs a large
| piece of machinery in a remote location.
|
| My dry cleaner's credit card reader, too.
| nomel wrote:
| The acoustic modem is back in style [1]! And, of course, same
| frequencies (DTMF) [2], too!
|
| DTMF has a special place in the phone signal chain (signal at
| these frequencies must be preserved, end to end, for dialing and
| menu selection), but I wonder if there's something more
| efficient, using the "full" voice spectrum, with the various
| vocoders [3] in mind? Although, it would be _much_ crepier than
| hearing some tones.
|
| [1] Touch tone based data communication, 1979:
| https://www.tinaja.com/ebooks/tvtcb.pdf
|
| [2] touch tone frequency mapping:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTMF
|
| [3] optimized encoders/decoders for human speech:
| https://vocal.com/voip/voip-vocoders/
| bigiain wrote:
| I'm wondering if shifting frequency chirps like LORA uses would
| work in audio frequencies? You might be able to get the same
| sort of ability to grab usable signal at many db below the
| noise, and be able to send data over normal talking/music audio
| without it being obvious you're doing so. (I wanted to say
| "undetectably", but it'd end up showing up fairly obviously to
| anyone looking for it. Or to Aphex Twin if he saw it in his
| Windowlicker software...)
| nomel wrote:
| The issue is the (many) vocoders along the chain remove
| anything that don't match the _vocal patterns_ of a human.
| When you say hello, it 's encoded _phonetically_ to a very
| low bitrate. Noise, or anything outside what a human vocal
| cord can do, is aggressively filtered or encoded as vocal
| sounding things. _Except_ for DTMF, which _must_ be preserved
| for backwards compatibility. That 's why I say it would be
| creepy to do something higher bitrate...your data stream
| would literally and necessarily be human vocal sounds!
| westurner wrote:
| "Using the Web Audio API to Make a Modem" (2017)
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15471723
| nickcw wrote:
| It sounds quite nice.
|
| It is also about the same bitrate as RTTY which was invented in
| 1922 and is still in use by radio amateurs round the world.
|
| Here is what that sounds like
|
| https://youtu.be/wzkAeopX7P0?si=0m0urX7sDp6Jojqe
|
| Not as musical but quite similar
| lxe wrote:
| The amateur radio community is chock full of innovation for low
| bandwidth weak signal decodable comm protocols.
|
| There's also V.xx modem standards that are kinda dependent on
| the characteristics of the phone lines, but might work for
| audio at a distance?
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| audio- steganography? or watermarking?
|
| pfft, it may even have multiple channels one over another, so one
| can tune to one or another (if knows how to decode)..
| jancsika wrote:
| There was a research paper on doing data-over-sound with sounds
| that were designed to be pleasing to humans.
|
| The demos sounded like little R2D2 blips and sputters.
|
| Perhaps a researcher for Microsoft or something.
|
| Anyone know the paper I'm talking about? I can't find it.
| iszomer wrote:
| I guess this was discussed in some fashion, ~16h ago..
|
| - GibberLink [AI-AI Communication] |
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43168611
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| "Hey ChatGPT, please fork ggwave, but make communication nothing
| but the sound of human screams."
| mtaras wrote:
| This sounds delightful, I might make esp32s talk to each other
| like that just because it's adorable
| ConanRus wrote:
| expecting a Blue AI box in 3,2,1
| rkagerer wrote:
| See also: https://github.com/romanz/amodem
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(page generated 2025-02-25 23:00 UTC)