[HN Gopher] Launch HN: SubImage (YC W25) - See your infra from a...
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       Launch HN: SubImage (YC W25) - See your infra from an attacker's
       perspective
        
       Hi HN! I'm Alex, and along with my co-founder Kunaal, we are
       thrilled to introduce SubImage (https://subimage.io): a tool that
       lets your security team fix issues before they're found by
       attackers. Teams use SubImage to map their infrastructure and
       emulate adversary behavior. Here's a video of how I would use it to
       hack our own company: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_meu4_aIVA.
       SubImage is our hosted offering built on top of Cartography
       (https://github.com/cartography-cncf/cartography), the open source
       security graph that we created at Lyft in 2019, originally shared
       on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19517977. You can
       think of us as an open-core Wiz alternative.  In 2016, I worked on
       Microsoft's Azure Red Team, where we built an infra mapping service
       to find the shortest paths to exploit our targets. We were so
       effective that the Blue Team wanted it too. In 2019, I joined Lyft,
       where we applied the same ideas to AWS and beyond, helping build
       and open-source Cartography. Over the past six years, it's been
       incredible to grow the community and see over 70 companies (that I
       know of) use it.  Kunaal and I first worked closely together in
       2020 when we helped bootstrap Lyft's vulnerability management
       program and used Cartography as its backbone:
       https://eng.lyft.com/vulnerability-management-at-lyft-enforc....
       This is actually where the name SubImage comes from: Lyft services
       are made up of one or more "SubImages", and modeling this properly
       was such a memorable engineering challenge that we decided to name
       our company after it.  Cartography pulls metadata from multiple
       sources -- SaaS, cloud service providers, a company's internal
       services -- and writes it to a graph database. This simple
       technique is incredibly powerful in modeling otherwise unseen
       misconfigurations and attack paths in areas like access
       permissions, networking, and software vulnerabilities.  SubImage
       picks up where Cartography leaves off: it's a fully-hosted solution
       that provides specific recommendations for the problems it finds.
       The fix-action depends on company size: small teams might run AWS
       CLI commands, while larger orgs require automated infrastructure-
       as-code pull requests.  Here's a video demo showing how we can use
       SubImage to understand and take action if our Stripe API key is
       unexpectedly used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBCr35hb5Hk.
       SubImage also provides a natural language interface to quickly
       answer questions about our infra: https://imgur.com/a/subimage-
       natural-language-interface-quer....  Security is a competitive
       space, but we have a few differentiators:  First, we allow a very
       deep level of customization where the security team can enrich
       their graph with their own internal data, not just data from the
       major cloud providers. If it can be expressed as structured JSON,
       you can graph it; here's a demo:
       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvwDJoZaO_w. This flexibility is
       needed to answer questions like: Which storage buckets contain PII?
       Who owns them? Who's on-call for https://example.com/api/payment?
       Which company director owns the most risk?  Since it's built on
       Cartography, teams can also just write custom plugins in Python if
       they'd like: https://cartography-
       cncf.github.io/cartography/dev/writing-i....  Second, our core
       principle is actionability. Security teams drown in alerts.
       SubImage traces paths from critical assets to the most exploitable
       misconfigurations, helping teams cut through the noise and
       prioritize real threats.  Finally, we're built on open source. We
       created Cartography and as it improves, so does SubImage.
       Cartography is a CNCF project (https://eng.lyft.com/cartography-
       joins-the-cncf-6f6b7be099a7), which means that it is full open
       source and will remain so.  Going forward, we're maintaining
       Cartography while launching SubImage as a fully managed offering.
       Our roadmap includes Access Management (prune excessive permissions
       and enforce security invariants, Change Tracking (detect and alert
       on infra changes that introduce risk), and Cloud & SaaS
       Misconfigurations (expand visibility, including vulnerability
       management).  Thanks for reading! If this sounds interesting, try
       out https://github.com/cartography-cncf/cartography.  It's an honor
       to share SubImage with HN, especially having followed projects here
       for over a decade. We'd love to hear your questions, feedback, and
       the challenges you face in security and infra!
        
       Author : alexchantavy
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2025-02-24 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
       | jc_811 wrote:
       | Looks very cool! Wiz is a beast at the moment so I will be
       | watching closely to see if you (or anyone else really) will be
       | able to go up against them
        
       | 1899-12-30 wrote:
       | Given that this is a paid product, are you liable if the chatbot
       | misrepresents the data?
       | 
       | website(on firefox) nitpicks
       | 
       | - The handle_complexity.png image is too small to read and can't
       | be zoomed unless opened in another tab.
       | 
       | - The background effect is in the foreground of
       | chatbot_cropped_gif.gif
       | 
       | - The yaml schema text should have a background like the rest of
       | the text boxes
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | > Given that this is a paid product, are you liable if the
         | chatbot misrepresents the data?
         | 
         | Good question. Right now the chatbot is in preview and we're
         | currently figuring that out. That said, we do have it provide
         | the underling query that it used to answer the question so a
         | user can double check with that.
         | 
         | Thanks for the comments on the landing page -- we're security
         | nerds and definitely not great at frontend haha, will fix!
        
       | nodesocket wrote:
       | Looked at your video demo, does SubImage actually recommend
       | changes and generate terraform? For example instead of exposing
       | 80/443 to the EC2 instance, deploy a ELB in-front of it that
       | listens on 80/443 publicaly and only allow the ELB to forward
       | traffic to the ec2 instance. Also, utilize attach role to the ec2
       | instance to avoid storing AWS credentials in environment vars,
       | though if the instance was compromised an attacker could still
       | access the s3 bucket.
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | > does SubImage actually recommend changes and generate
         | terraform?
         | 
         | We recommend changes, though we don't generate Terraform just
         | yet. Great feedback on the specific fixes for this case,
         | thanks.
        
       | bavarianbob wrote:
       | Awesome project!
       | 
       | As someone deeply familiar with this problem (ex-JupiterOne), I'd
       | caution against asserting that 'deep level of customization' is a
       | differentiator. Your buyer (CISO) and userbase (Sec Engs) are
       | drowning. They (and I) don't want yet another product to build on
       | top of. This is a key reason why Wiz is so successful -- an
       | operator can turn Wiz on and immediately receive value, no
       | adjustments or additions needed.
       | 
       | I'd strategically focus on making the 'actionability' part the
       | cornerstone of the product and really become obsessed with making
       | that part of your product incredible. The Goliath-killing story
       | you need will be formed by figuring out how to get your product
       | to the point where someone can turn it on and immediately receive
       | value for the most impactful security problems first (ex: Log4J)
       | and the total surface area of problems the product solves for
       | second.
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | Thank you, this is very helpful especially given your
         | experience in the space. I intended to frame this like "there
         | are many tools that let a security team can pull in data from
         | the cloud providers and detect misconfigurations, but this
         | becomes soo much more useful when they're able to contextualize
         | it against their internal data". If I'm responding to log4j, I
         | want to know all of the services that are running that affected
         | library, which ones are internet open, and who in the
         | organization owns it. That last part is key for actionability.
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | I would second this. No security person says "I don't have
         | enough problems to look into."
         | 
         | Security spending is down, so navel gazing products are going
         | to be a really hard sell. Figure out how to actually solve
         | problems in an automated/semi-automated way and ship that
         | instead.
         | 
         | The other issue with all of these tools is handling
         | onboarding/integrations and getting terrible visibility as a
         | result. A big market gap I see is a tool that can use the
         | vulnerabilities it discovers to further information collection
         | just like a real attacker would. Found Splunk creds in a log?
         | Awesome, start using them. Syslog in an S3 bucket... boom. You
         | are now hitting the stuff that every other ASM/visualization
         | tool has missed.
        
           | alexchantavy wrote:
           | Makes sense -- we're focused on fixing problems over just
           | being yet another Jira ticket generator.
           | 
           | > Found Splunk creds in a log? Awesome, start using them.
           | Syslog in an S3 bucket... boom. You are now hitting the stuff
           | that every other ASM/visualization tool has missed.
           | 
           | This is my dream :). This past weekend I was playing around
           | with something where if I clicked on a SecretsManagerSecret
           | node then it'd give me the CLI commands to assume the roles
           | and then retrieve the secret. It'd be neat to take it a step
           | further and be able to click here and get a shell -- I don't
           | think we're _that_ far off from that (but for now to be very
           | clear we're focusing on read-only actions only since a
           | security tool with permissions to do scary things in your
           | environment kinda defeats the purpose).
        
       | aghilmort wrote:
       | absolutely awesome -- huge need
        
       | asaiyer wrote:
       | Wow this library has a lot of history being developed at Lyft!
       | Have you seen a good response to the paid offering? I suppose all
       | the OSS users self hosting will switch over!
        
       | jvstokes wrote:
       | This is cool, and really makes sense for large organizations. Do
       | you foresee a release for smaller enterprises (something as
       | simple as a lightweight aws integration?)
        
         | kunaals wrote:
         | Could definitely see us releasing some form of this for smaller
         | companies as well, it's crazy how many vendors and how much
         | infra even these 2 month old startups have
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | Depends on how small. Most seed stage and early companies are
         | more worried about product-market fit and not security. For
         | now, we're probably best fit for companies building out their
         | first security teams, so that's _usually_ series A and later.
         | That said, there might be something there, I'm open to figuring
         | something out for a smaller company.
        
       | badmonster wrote:
       | Congrats on the launch!
        
       | newgo wrote:
       | How come things like this are not built into most cloud
       | providers?
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | AWS has Config to give you an inventory, but that only covers
         | AWS. My guess is that there's not much incentive for the major
         | cloud providers to build a product to help you correlate data
         | across other products.
        
       | pcgubi98 wrote:
       | Looks great. Sent you a DM.
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | I was watching a competitor(?) of yours a few years ago who were
       | trying to integrate
       | https://github.com/WithSecureLabs/IAMSpy#iamspy with Cartography
       | to have more insight into what, actually, the IAM Roles could do
       | 
       | Do you have similar plans or are those kinds of things left as an
       | "exercise to the reader" via your Intel Plugins link? I do see
       | https://cartography-cncf.github.io/cartography/modules/aws/s...
       | but I also see https://github.com/cartography-
       | cncf/cartography/blob/0.100.0... so it's hard to know what level
       | of insight one wishes to support out of the box versus the
       | localstack model of "open core, advanced features are $$$" type
       | deal
        
         | alexchantavy wrote:
         | > have more insight into what, actually, the IAM Roles could do
         | 
         | We 100% do this, see https://eng.lyft.com/iam-whatever-you-say-
         | iam-febce59d1e3b.
         | 
         | We evaluate the policies for the IAM principal against the
         | resources to determine what actions they can perform on each
         | resource. This is configurable too; here's the set of the
         | default permission relationships shipped in OSS:
         | https://github.com/cartography-cncf/cartography/blob/master/...
         | 
         | It doesn't cover conditions since those can be wacky
         | complicated, and it doesn't cover resource policies (yet!) but
         | in my experience this is still a very good heuristic that is
         | already more accurate than AWS IAM Analyzer when I played with
         | it.
         | 
         | The next step we're working on is to take this access map and
         | correlate it with event data to see which permissions are
         | used/unused so that we can prune them for ensuring least
         | privilege. More to come here.
         | 
         | Edit: adding on for the part of your question about what
         | features are paid or OSS, our paid offering is fully hosted and
         | includes things like automatic suggested fixes, a natural
         | language interface, customization with our dynamic schemas, and
         | other bells and whistles. I'm not a fan of doing things like
         | premium modules because I don't want to ever get in the
         | position where I'm declining a pull request in open source
         | because it covers a premium feature; that doesn't feel right.
        
       | tsunego wrote:
       | Actionability >>> observability
       | 
       | If you can pull this off, you will have a great time
        
         | kunaals wrote:
         | Agreed
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-24 23:00 UTC)