[HN Gopher] Breaking into apartment buildings in five minutes on...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Breaking into apartment buildings in five minutes on my phone
        
       Author : ChrisArchitect
       Score  : 228 points
       Date   : 2025-02-24 15:48 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ericdaigle.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ericdaigle.ca)
        
       | bgirard wrote:
       | > Hirsch replies stating that these vulnerable systems are not
       | following manufacturers' recommendations to change the default
       | password
       | 
       | These manufacturers' recommendations are not acceptable. They
       | should mandate a non-default secure password before allowing the
       | system to be used.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | Even my parents & grandparents modems/routers each have a
         | unique password printed on the bottom! There's just no excuse
         | for this.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | Oh speaking of which. A lot of places i rented on holidays
           | had internet access with that default unique password. Which
           | is a pain to type on your phone and laptop when you get
           | there.
           | 
           | Did anyone think to at least try to add OCR-ing those labels
           | on our phones to automatically enter the wifi password?
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | A lot of inns and B&Bs in tiny towns etc. have these
             | complicated passwords that seem like overkill. You're
             | probably right that they're some sort of default. Even if
             | they're not 12345, it seems as if they could be something
             | pretty simple and that would be fine.
        
             | axus wrote:
             | QR codes?
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | > QR codes?
               | 
               | How do you change the label on the router that got
               | installed 8 years ago and is working fine? Especially
               | since the owner of the cabin in the woods that you just
               | rented for the weekend is into ... renting cabins in the
               | woods, not geekery.
               | 
               | > have these complicated passwords that seem like
               | overkill. You're probably right that they're some sort of
               | default.
               | 
               | It is the default. If you find their router you'll find
               | that overkill password printed on a label on the bottom.
               | More enlightened ISPs give you extra stickers with the
               | same info that you can put on the fridge or somewhere
               | like that.
        
               | wrs wrote:
               | We used this for our guests at home.
               | 
               | https://qifi.org/
        
               | nottorp wrote:
               | Oh pretty. Now I just need to tell all the hosts in my
               | future holidays about those :)
        
               | dghlsakjg wrote:
               | There is a wifi credentials QR code standard that can be
               | used to pass the network name, and authentication
               | details. Anyone can generate one, here's a generator app:
               | https://www.qr-code-generator.com/solutions/wifi-qr-code/
               | 
               | Most modern phones recognize the standard and can be used
               | through the native camera app.
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | Yes I saw it literally few days ago when visiting
               | relative (not even airbnb just her home), so easy to do
               | yet it never occured to me.
        
               | datadrivenangel wrote:
               | I have a framed wifi QR code in my house. It's great.
               | Looks like a photo on the wall.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | I should cross-stitch one.
        
             | happyopossum wrote:
             | >Did anyone think to at least try to add OCR-ing those
             | labels on our phones to automatically enter the wifi
             | password?
             | 
             | You can do that easily on iOS, I'd be surprised if Android
             | didn't allow it as well...
             | 
             | Tap in the password field, tap Autofill from the popup, and
             | tap Scan Text.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Slightly off topic, but sharing WiFi passwords on iOS is
               | so very user friendly.
        
               | bildung wrote:
               | How does it work in iOS?
               | 
               | On Android User A taps on the wifi they are connected to
               | and gets a QR code, and User B taps on the icon for
               | scanning wifi QR codes, so one tap each once you are in
               | your wifi settings.
        
               | arjie wrote:
               | On iOS, the guest attempts to connect and anyone with
               | them in their contacts list is prompted to share. The
               | common use case of a friend visiting is very simple. If
               | you want to share a different network, there's a similar
               | flow to the Android one:
               | 
               | * Go to Wi-Fi in the Passwords app
               | 
               | * Select the Wi-Fi network you want to share
               | 
               | * Share Network QR Code
        
               | HeatrayEnjoyer wrote:
               | So they know when you're trying to access a wifi network?
        
               | mcculley wrote:
               | If you are near them, yes.
        
             | gryn wrote:
             | google lenses works for this as an OCR copy & paste
        
             | rbalicki wrote:
             | You can generate and print a QR code. It's quite a nice
             | solution
        
           | prophesi wrote:
           | Oddly enough, these default unique passwords usually are in
           | the format of word+word+digit+digit+digit. If you look up the
           | model, it won't take long to find the word list they use and
           | can trivially bruteforce it.
           | 
           | So even then, I'd recommend changing it, or push for these
           | companies to provide generated passwords with a much larger
           | key space.
        
             | jack_pp wrote:
             | Idk in Romania routers come with random passwords.
             | 
             | https://imgur.com/a/x915ZfO
        
               | yesthis wrote:
               | function generatePassword() { // comply with Romanian
               | regulations return "gaGc52eP" }
        
               | rad_gruchalski wrote:
               | This function doesn't evaluate, something something
               | expected expression of }, premature end of file.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | I know you're making a joke but it's just HN formatting
               | not respecting single line breaks in comments.
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | German fritzbox routers (the most common non-isp routers
             | here, and actually very capable) have a fully random
             | password
        
             | bongodongobob wrote:
             | That's usually the wifi password, not the admin password.
        
           | robbiewxyz wrote:
           | Their routers only have this feature because the internet
           | providers who sell those routers pay for bandwidth themselves
           | lol. If residential internet plans sold on a pay-per-byte
           | basis you can bet routers'd still ship with non-unique
           | passwords.
        
       | psobot wrote:
       | Viscount has hilariously bad security. I used to live in a
       | building in Toronto that used Viscount infrared fobs for access
       | control. They were no more secure than TV remotes; no rolling
       | codes, no encryption, nothing. An attacker could easily sit
       | nearby with an IR receiver and collect everyone's fob codes at a
       | distance, allowing access to all floors.
       | 
       | Needless to say, I moved.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I'm not going to especially defend but you have a way more
         | sophisticated model of how most burglars work than is almost
         | certainly the case.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | Exactly. This article should be titled "I figured out a
           | really obtuse way to break into apartment buildings."
           | 
           | A rock will get the job done in a fraction of the time.
           | 
           | It's like all those nobodies on HN who go through all kinds
           | of software gymnastics to secure their phone against
           | imaginary "threat actors," when a mugger is just going to
           | keep twisting their arm behind their back until they enter
           | their PIN.
        
             | badgersnake wrote:
             | This is way better than a rock. It raises no suspicion and
             | leaves no trace. Maybe it doesn't matter for burglary, as
             | you're probably going to take things anyway, but if you
             | want access anyone knowing you were there this is gold.
        
             | Neonlicht wrote:
             | In fairness I think that these "locked doors" are to keep
             | the homeless/drug users out or kids starting fires not
             | really burglars.
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | They unlocked a lot more power than simply getting into
             | buildings.
        
         | prometheus76 wrote:
         | This was 30 years ago, so I'm sure a lot has changed since
         | then. I was a missionary and the way we got into buildings in
         | Toronto to knock on doors was to just pick the last name with
         | the most letters from the directory, buzz them, and when they
         | answered, we would just say "pizza delivery" and 95% of the
         | time they buzzed the door open.
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | What's does the letters in their name have to do with it?
        
             | prometheus76 wrote:
             | Less likely to speak English in my experience.
        
           | nosioptar wrote:
           | It'd be nice if missionaries weren't such hypocrites.
           | Claiming to be the pizza guy when you're actually selling
           | magic underwear is bearing false witness.
        
             | knowitnone wrote:
             | devil worship is a hell of a drug
        
             | roguecoder wrote:
             | Technically it depends on the interpretation of "`ed" and
             | "b@re`aka" whether that commandment is admonishing against
             | telling any lie, just lies in court when making a legal
             | accusation against another person, or somewhere in between.
             | 
             | Even if we accepted the premise that one book should be the
             | basis of all morality, this one contains within itself
             | contradictions, satire, sarcasm, and a community context we
             | no longer have: with individual quotes I can make anyone
             | look like a hypocrite.
             | 
             | To my mind the more interesting question is, does a
             | singular community condemn a behavior in out-group members
             | that they tolerate or even praise in in-group members?
        
               | reaperman wrote:
               | Leviticus 19:11 bypasses the whole "`ed" vs. "b@re`aka"
               | shenanigans.
               | 
               | New International Version (NIV): "Do not steal. Do not
               | lie. Do not deceive one another"
               | 
               | King James: "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely,
               | neither lie one to another."
               | 
               | New Living Translation (NLT): "Do not steal. Do not
               | deceive or cheat one another"
               | 
               | New Century Version (NCV): "You must not steal. You must
               | not cheat people, and you must not lie to each other"
               | 
               | The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB): "You must not
               | steal. You must not act deceptively or lie to one
               | another"
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | Does anyone ever actually get converted by a door knocking
           | missionary?
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | It's not for the benefit of the potential convertees, it's
             | for the benefit of the ones doing the converting.
        
               | spankalee wrote:
               | Yes. The inevitable rejection is the point. It reinforces
               | the otherness of the outside world, creating more
               | separation from non-believers and stronger connection and
               | devotion to the cult.
        
             | prometheus76 wrote:
             | Yes. I'm no longer a Mormon, but I baptized around a dozen
             | people on my mission and they were all found from knocking
             | on doors. But this was also thirty years ago, before the
             | internet was a thing for most people.
        
           | Frederation wrote:
           | I hope you are doing better!
        
         | happyopossum wrote:
         | > infrared fobs
         | 
         | Wait, what? You have to point a powered device at an IR
         | receiver and press a button like a TV remote? I've never seen a
         | building entry system like that!
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | That's probably because it's not so good as a building non-
           | entry system.
        
           | psobot wrote:
           | Exactly that, yes! IR receivers outside every exterior door
           | to the building, and IR receivers in the elevators to control
           | access on a floor-by-floor basis.
           | 
           | The fobs were visible by an IR camera (including the average
           | smartphone) and could trivially be decoded as a short bit
           | sequence with an IR sensor wired into a microphone jack, as
           | the bit pattern was transmitted at ~audio rates.
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | > _2025-01-29: Hirsch replies stating that these vulnerable
       | systems are not following manufacturers' recommendations to
       | change the default password_
       | 
       | Ah, yes. It's the children who are wrong.
        
       | ihaveone wrote:
       | Holy freaking crap. ALL OF THESE ARE ONLINE. "It's possible" to
       | log in to the first result with the default password.
       | 
       | If anyone wants, perhaps login, change the password and make a
       | new client as the password or something. This is going to get bad
       | FAST.
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | I would say this is highly irresponsible of the researcher to
         | expose this publicly. These are people's homes, along with
         | their PII and locations. The residents didn't choose this
         | system, their building just uses it. They don't even know that
         | their info is being leaked, nor that the doors to their places
         | were just rendered neutered.
         | 
         | If something bad happens because of this...
        
           | smallerfish wrote:
           | I flagged it for this reason.
        
           | tiborsaas wrote:
           | I second this. Just because it feels right to them as "I've
           | reported it, It's not on me anymore...", doesn't mean he
           | should enable bored people to revoke access cards, jam
           | elevators, etc.
        
             | Freak_NL wrote:
             | That depends on the individual's weighing of the various
             | factors and their personal moral position. If someone wants
             | to prevent a bunch of easy break-ins where the method of
             | entry won't get noticed in most cases, and they feel that
             | the discomfort of denying access for a bit (impacting
             | hundreds of people perhaps) outweighs the trauma of being
             | robbed (maybe impacting just a few), than doing that might
             | be the only morally defensible position to take. For all we
             | know they actually are planning to hammer the open
             | installations until they get fixed to prevent the bigger
             | harm.
             | 
             | Other people will shrug and move on after trying everything
             | they can via the proper channels.
             | 
             | And then of course there are the assholes who will just do
             | it because it entertains them.
        
               | tiborsaas wrote:
               | It's all very educative and makes a point until you read
               | a news story about someone dying because ER couldn't get
               | there in time. The road to hell is paved with good
               | intentions hits hard here.
        
               | Freak_NL wrote:
               | That too has a chance of happening associated with it.
               | Lacking a convenient table to look up the chance of that
               | happening (and its impact), and the chance of a break-in
               | caused by an open admin panel causing irreparable harm,
               | there is nothing left to do but weigh the chances as best
               | as one can.
               | 
               | Many people will choose to do nothing in that case, but
               | not everyone will accept that inaction which might lead
               | to bigger harm is preferable to action which might lead
               | to another possible negative outcome, but at a much
               | smaller chance.
               | 
               | (It's basically that dumb trolley meme, but with
               | undetermined outcomes.)
               | 
               | Every choice we make can have an adverse effect on
               | others. Take the car today instead of walking? You just
               | might cause an ambulance to be delayed leading to an
               | unfortunate death. The chance of that happening is
               | negligible of course, but not absent (it never is).
        
             | roguecoder wrote:
             | Criminals were already enabled to do that, and the people
             | in those buildings had no way to know.
             | 
             | The more-responsible thing might have been to also reach
             | out to residents of individual buildings & give them time
             | to correct the situation, rather than relying on the
             | company (which has a vested interest in ignoring the
             | problem) to do the right thing. But security through
             | obscurity is not a solution.
        
               | sjducb wrote:
               | Reaching out to the residents leaves you open to legal
               | risks. You processed their data without any kind of opt
               | in.
        
           | asynchronousx wrote:
           | This is the only recourse left when the vendor kicks and
           | screams at the CVE disclosure process.
        
             | azinman2 wrote:
             | I strongly disagree. You're literally putting people's
             | lives and possessions at risk who have no knowledge of
             | this. There are many alternative methods, from getting the
             | government involved to giving a a very long lead time to
             | the vendor before you disclose this, to sitting on it and
             | never disclosing.
        
               | megous wrote:
               | Software vendor and building manager are putting people's
               | lives at risk.
               | 
               | Can't software coders ever take responsibility? And this
               | is on the programmer who implemented this, too. You just
               | not let your product manager do this, ever. It's 2025
               | already.
               | 
               | And this is a security product, wtf? Residents should be
               | suing individual programmers here. OWASP was created 24
               | years ago. Default credentials is like number 1 on their
               | IoT app security list. Only a moron would not defend
               | against this. If your manager requires this, you just
               | send him:
               | 
               | https://wiki.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_Internet_of_Things
               | _Pr...
               | 
               | And tell him no. If he still wants it, you just report
               | him to Reddit or whatever. :D
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | The only recourse for what problem? Aren't there other
             | plausible creative ways to apply pressure and get it fixed,
             | with less risk to the people unwittingly at mercy of this
             | vendor's negligence?
             | 
             | Or are you speaking of the transactional convention, in
             | which people can break into systems, and then are entitled
             | to publicity for that, so long as they give the vendor
             | advance notice?
             | 
             | The whole responsible disclosure convention seems an
             | imperfect compromise, among various imperfect actors. On
             | occasion, individuals might decide that other options are
             | more appropriate to the specific situation, and to Perfect
             | Tommy it.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKHaNIEa6kA
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | If something bad is done by a bad actor because of this
           | vulnerability being discussed in public, that's no worse than
           | something bad happening because this vulnerability exists but
           | is only discussed in secret.
           | 
           | This is not some highly-technical vulnerability only
           | accessible to nation-states with genius engineers and
           | million-dollar labs with exotic instrumentation and brute-
           | force supercomputers compute pulling down many megawatts of
           | power. The OP literally logged into an open Wifi SSID,
           | searched for the text on the page, and scrolled to the
           | default password. None of those steps are hard to do, any
           | jealous ex or disgruntled employee or divorced parent fuming
           | in the parking lot for 5 minutes could effortlessly
           | accomplish the same thing.
           | 
           | I honestly think it's _likely_ that bad things have already
           | happened due to this vulnerability - but not due to this
           | disclosure.
           | 
           | But because it was only discussed in secret, no one ever got
           | to the root cause of the issue and the hazard continued to be
           | out there. Now that it's public, hopefully something will be
           | done, and relatively quickly.
        
             | azinman2 wrote:
             | Shining a spotlight on an issue is completely different
             | than the issue already existing.
        
           | Synthetic7346 wrote:
           | I think this falls under responsible disclosure guidelines. A
           | lot of times companies refuse to fix misconfiguration issues
           | like these, and users/customers deserve to know. Not
           | publishing it is security by obscurity, you're just hoping
           | that a bad actor doesn't figure this out (or hasn't already
           | figured this out).
        
       | michaelt wrote:
       | _> Default credentials that "should" be changed, with no
       | requirement or explanation of how to do so. Surely no building
       | managers ever leave the defaults, right? And even if they did,
       | they'd surely have no reason to expose this thing to the
       | Internet, right?_
       | 
       | My theory is this is one of the reasons so many internet-of-
       | things devices nowerdays omit any sort of offline/local network
       | control.
       | 
       | No default passwords, no ports you can forward without knowing
       | what you're doing, all the credentials sorted out on a cloud
       | server.
        
         | craftkiller wrote:
         | Consumer routers have had this issue solved for ages: you
         | generate a random password and put it physically on the device.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I don't want some complicated random password. At least where
           | I live, my router password is a _very_ modest security shim
           | to protect against very random casual access. If I have a
           | visitor who needs WiFi access, I want to give them an easy
           | password to type in.
        
             | craftkiller wrote:
             | You can always change the passwords. I was bringing this up
             | as a solution to the default passwords issue. You don't
             | want to have a static default password used by everyone, so
             | you need the initial password to be randomized. People are
             | dumb so you need to print it on the device. There is no
             | need to default to cloud-based authentication to close the
             | default password security hole.
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | Wifi password != admin password. The admin password should
             | be random and then you can change it when you take
             | ownership of the device.
        
             | marsovo wrote:
             | So change it afterwards. Good defaults are important. If
             | someone doesn't change it, it's important that they be on
             | the right path instead of...this one.
             | 
             | (See also: opt-in versus opt-out for retirement plans,
             | organ donation...heck, even this from yesterday:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43144611)
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | If it's too hard for a guest to type in a password, you can
             | also have them join by scanning a QR code. Obviously this
             | works better for phones and tablets with QR scanning built
             | into the camera, but that's what guests are frequently
             | using.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code#Joining_a_Wi%E2%80%91
             | F...
        
           | huang_chung wrote:
           | OpenWRT, the crown jewel of open source firmwares for
           | "insecure" consumer routers, uses a blank (null) password by
           | default with full root access.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | No device comes off the shelf with OpenWRT. If you're the
             | type of person that's aware of OpenWRT and then install it,
             | it's not that far of a stretch to think you'd also be the
             | type to know to check the password.
        
               | huang_chung wrote:
               | Your logic is poor.
               | 
               | If you assume this, you have to assume door access device
               | is installed by trained technician.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Your assumption is large.
               | 
               | I am only thinking of a router with OpenWRT installed.
               | Nothing about a wifi router with OpenWRT has anything to
               | do with a door access device installed by a trained
               | technician or not. The conversation only pertains to the
               | words used, not the unwritten ones you're trying to
               | insert in between the lines of my comment to make a
               | totally unrelated point
        
               | myself248 wrote:
               | GL-inet devices come off the shelf with OpenWRT. They
               | don't have a blank password. Every single one ships with
               | 'goodlife' as the default password, as printed on the
               | label on the back.
               | 
               | (But remote ssh login is disabled by default.)
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Thanks. I was unaware of that company.
        
       | thomasjudge wrote:
       | Isn't logging into any system unauthorized - in practice - a
       | violation of the Computer Fraud & Abuse Act?
        
         | roguecoder wrote:
         | The EFF has a good guide about the relevant laws:
         | https://clinic.cyber.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/...
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | It is, like getting into a home with open doors without the
         | consent of the inhabitants.
         | 
         | Which is keeping away only the honest and polite persons.
        
       | INGSOCIALITE wrote:
       | i worked as an engineer in an industry that required on-site
       | access to buildings all over manhattan, some residential. all you
       | have to do is hit a couple random buttons on the intercom and
       | 100% of the time one of them would just buzz the lock
        
         | mvandermeulen wrote:
         | This is pretty much all it takes in any western country. Some
         | areas might require a little more effort but nothing
         | substantial.
         | 
         | In fairness, the blame for this kind of enabling attitude is
         | mostly attributable to me locking myself out of the building
         | and having to buzz my long suffering neighbours at all kinds of
         | ungodly hours. Proud moments.
        
         | megous wrote:
         | Could you also lock out specific residents? Or get their daily
         | home arrival patterns for the last few years? Or find unused
         | flats to squat in? IoT still wins. :)
        
       | ecshafer wrote:
       | Many many many years ago I worked at basically an MSP for telcos
       | on the helpdesk. So customers would call their telco or isp for
       | help and that would be routed to us. Anyways this one small isp
       | with idk 10k customers had deployed their routers to customers
       | with the default username/password and remote authentication
       | enabled. A single script from a bad actor logged into all of the
       | routers, changed credentials, and iirc updated dns settings so
       | they lost internet, phone, tv. Cue 10k people calling as we had
       | to basically walk through everyone one by one on changing the
       | credentials and updating their config.
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | Was that enough pain to force some sort of change in how the
         | things were deployed thereafter?
        
       | Agingcoder wrote:
       | After watching a lot of tv series, my non techie wife has come to
       | the conclusion that real life systems are trivial to hack : just
       | click 'skip password', or 'password override', or just use
       | 'password' as a password.
       | 
       | It seems she's almost right !
        
       | assimpleaspossi wrote:
       | Road with a guy to visit a friend in a gated community. We didn't
       | know the access code for the gate but the guy I was with is an
       | Amazon delivery driver.
       | 
       | "Let's see if I can't get us in," he said. He got out of the car,
       | walked over to the access panel and looked on top, bottom and
       | sides. Then he punched in some numbers and the gate opened.
       | 
       | Turns out, so many people in gated communities and apartment
       | complexes order things from Amazon, and other delivery services,
       | and want front door delivery but don't give them any way to get
       | in. Eventually, some frustrated driver who gets the code will
       | write it on the side of the access panel to help everyone out.
       | 
       | "Apartments are awful," he said. "College campuses are the bane
       | of our existence. You would think that college kids would be
       | smart about these things but they are the absolute worst."
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | My parents live in a very upscale country club community down
         | in Florida and their gate security is laughable. They assign
         | every household a 4 digit code to enter the community. Given
         | how many homes are in this community, entering any 4 digit code
         | > 1000 and < 2000 will work.
        
           | jimt1234 wrote:
           | My girlfriend lives in an upscale, gated community. Her HOA
           | has done the exact opposite. They change the gate code weekly
           | as way to "protect" themselves from this situation. However,
           | it's kinda had the opposite effect - tailgating has become
           | totally acceptable, even the norm, as people can't keep up
           | with the gate code changes. Amazon drivers usually just sit
           | outside for a minute or two, then tailgate into the
           | neighborhood.
        
             | reaperman wrote:
             | The only gated community / apartment complex's I've ever
             | seen where that was not normal are a subset of the ones
             | that have an on-duty guard - specifically the subset with
             | guards who recognize all the occupants and take the
             | information of anyone they don't recognize.
        
               | jimt1234 wrote:
               | Her community is not guard-gated, but it's extremely
               | snooty/snobby. A number of years ago, before the weekly
               | gate-code changes, the HOA started doing _annual_ code
               | changes on Halloween. Why Halloween, you might ask?
               | Because the service staff of the community (landscapers,
               | house cleaners, etc.) had the audacity to bring their
               | children /grand-children to the neighborhood to trick-or-
               | treat. Residents felt the service staff was just trying
               | to guilt them into giving candy. Keep in mind, all these
               | residents are multi-millionaires, mostly retirees, and
               | they were bitching about having to spend 5 bucks in candy
               | to make children happy.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | Isn't that usually how the rich stay rich? Does this
               | really seem to surprising?
               | 
               | In my experience, and I'm generalizing a lot, the less
               | people have the more generous they tend to be.
        
             | bell-cot wrote:
             | They're doing a great job of "protecting" themselves from
             | feeling anxious about Bad Things somehow happening.
             | 
             | For an all-too-large fraction of humanity, that's the
             | "protection" which actually matters.
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | There's a door at work I regularly need to access. It used to
         | be used for another purpose but now is just an extension of the
         | work area. It's got a badge reader and simplex lock but I can't
         | get badge access because I don't actually belong to that work
         | area yet I'm there everyday anyway. However, someone wrote the
         | simplex lock code on a sign in very small numbers for this
         | exact purpose. Other simplex locks in the building use the
         | default code you can find online. The whole building is secure
         | so you'd never be able to walk up to these doors without proper
         | credentials, they are mostly just there to keep out the curious
         | or someone looking to borrow tools that they shouldnt.
        
           | atlanticaccent wrote:
           | > The whole building is secure
           | 
           | Given what you just said and the article you're commenting
           | under, are you sure?
        
             | organsnyder wrote:
             | Anyone wearing a maintenance uniform and carrying a step-
             | ladder could surely find a way in via an overly helpful
             | victim.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | Look like you belong and act confident and you can get
               | nearly anywhere. Props help-- wear a high-vis vest and a
               | hard hat, carry a tablet / folio / clipboard around an
               | office, etc.
               | 
               | Confidence is the key, though.
        
               | organsnyder wrote:
               | You also have to fit a certain expected demographic.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | Sadly, yes-- that's true. It's a game of playing to
               | stereotypes, for sure.
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | It's far simpler than that. Ever gated community I've ever
         | visited, press any digit 4 times. You're in. The only exception
         | is community with a security guard. The guy obviously isn't
         | just going to let some guy not on the guest list in
        
           | adamanonymous wrote:
           | Gated communities around me have 2 lanes, one with a sensor
           | activated gate for residents and a guest lane next to the
           | guard hut
           | 
           | If it's busy and you pull up in a nice enough car and just
           | wait in front of the sensor gate looking annoyed, the guard
           | will eventually just let you in
        
         | AutistiCoder wrote:
         | I was under the impression that delivery drivers had a book or
         | something with these codes.
         | 
         | Like, the HOA just like calls the delivery companies and says
         | "hey, here's a code to get in"
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | Missed the stories about these guys shitting in the backs of
           | the trucks and vans for lack of time to do their jobs, eh?!
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | I bet you could examine the keypad for wear. The worn keys (or
         | the shiny ones) are the ones for the code.
         | 
         | In the days before cell phones, a burglar alarm would dial the
         | alarm company. The phone company likes to install the phone box
         | on the outside of the building. The alarm is defeated by an axe
         | to the cable going in the box.
         | 
         | I had a fight with the phone company at my house, as I wanted
         | the box on the inside rather than the outside. They finally
         | agreed on the condition that I maintain the wire to the box.
         | 
         | These days, of course, the alarms use wifi or a cell phone to
         | call the alarm company.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | > These days, of course, the alarms use...
           | 
           | And the crooks use RF jammers instead of axes.
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | That only works if there's a single code? I would think many
           | keypad systems assign a code to each apartment (so the one
           | written on the side is not a master key, just Joe in #303).
        
             | dmurray wrote:
             | I've definitely worked somewhere they tell all the users
             | they have individual codes, not to share them, and if there
             | is unauthorized access it can be traced who leaked their
             | code. Everyone gets told the same story and given the same
             | code.
        
         | jeffwask wrote:
         | > "College campuses are the bane of our existence. You would
         | think that college kids would be smart about these things but
         | they are the absolute worst."
         | 
         | This is a huge misconception about GenZ. Unlike Millennials and
         | GenX who had to hack around on PC's to figure out how to
         | torrent, run games, build our own lans for local multiplayer,
         | and generally avoid our parent's prying eyes. GenZ has grown up
         | on devices. You don't modify the OS on devices. You don't hack
         | around on devices; Apps tend to just work with little
         | configuration. GenZ is entering the workforce with lower
         | baseline computer / computer security skills than people think
         | they have.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | Well - kind of. PC gaming is bigger than ever before, and PC
           | gaming was how a lot of my generation got into computers.
           | 
           | My nephew for a while was very much one of those "grew up on
           | devices" kind of kids - until he got off of gaming on phones
           | and tablets, and got a gaming PC. Now he's reading about
           | technology and tinkering and stuff.
        
             | blueflow wrote:
             | Its not the same. Nowadays you press a button in steam and
             | the game is installed for you and just works. It does not
             | provide an entrance into technical layers like configuring
             | the soundblaster irq in config.sys did.
        
               | mardef wrote:
               | It's not the same, but I don't know if it's worse.
               | 
               | My IRQ conflict resolution skills or knowledge about
               | himem.sys aren't really useful these days.
               | 
               | But I've seen genz kids do incredible things with
               | Minecraft mods and the like that make me reminisce about
               | quake modding.
               | 
               | The masses are just blindly using devices, but the masses
               | didn't even have a PC at home 30 years ago.
        
               | neuralRiot wrote:
               | It used to be that if you wanted to do gaming on a PC you
               | started by building the PC.
        
               | dingnuts wrote:
               | That hasn't changed. Of course there are pre builts but
               | there were twenty years ago, too. I should know -- I had
               | one. I built my third gaming PC myself.
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Yeah, I know someone who works in a high school and the
           | average skill level is "struggles to figure out how to save a
           | document on a USB stick". Kids know how to press the power
           | button on an Xbox or tap an icon on their iPhone. The staff
           | member I know is aware of ONE kid in the entire school who
           | has used Linux. When I was a kid, basically every single kid
           | who had a computer at home (and actually used it) knew how to
           | defrag the hard drive (and probably install Windows lol), set
           | IRQ values for their sound card, all that kind of stuff --
           | because you had to know this to even use it. My friends and I
           | went on BBSes and later stuff like IRC and Hotline, ran Linux
           | or pre-release versions of our respective OSes, set up our
           | own bedroom LANs and personal game/web servers, etc. etc..
           | 
           | Indeed, as you say, I learned a lot about computers simply by
           | wanting to circumvent the limitations that school admins put
           | on the computers (especially as I wanted to utilize the full
           | power the computers provided, as opposed to some
           | sheltered/limited experience -- "At Ease" -- surprisingly
           | reminiscent of smartphones/tablets today)... I went to great
           | lengths to regain net access when my parents repeatedly
           | revoked my access, again another huge learning opportunity.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I don't know if it's a "uses tech" issue or just not
           | realizing the steps needed. Even we knew you had to go to the
           | campus gate to meet Dominos after dark (when the gate would
           | be automatically closed).
           | 
           | There was no fancy intercom ability to remotely open it.
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | Same I just was talking with my daughter (16) about this
           | because she hated her intro programming class in high school.
           | No biggie if it isn't for her, slightly disappointing that I
           | can't share knowledge, but she should pursue what she enjoys.
           | 
           | What irked me was she claimed "I just hate being on the
           | computer", but her screen time on the phone easily crests 8
           | hours daily. Maybe we are just entering a similar phase to
           | auto mechanics. In the 1950s anyone who owned a car was at
           | least somewhat proficient in its inner workings, now many
           | people need to consult the manual to figure out how to pop
           | their hood.
        
         | lynx97 wrote:
         | Ahh, the modern verson of the written note under the
         | keyboard...
         | 
         | In my area, there is a universal access key (physical) for
         | postal service and newspaper delivery people. So if you want
         | access to a random building, all you need to do is apply as a
         | newspaper delivery guy, or, find one that is willing to give
         | you that master key. To add insult to injury, that type of job
         | is extremely low paying, so much room for abuse.
         | 
         | Fact is, locks and closed doors are there to make the _owners_
         | _feel_ cozy and safe. If you ever needed a locksmith service
         | and watched them do their job, you _know_ your appartment door
         | is just a prop.
        
           | tecoholic wrote:
           | Modern apartment building. Low rise. Full visibility of
           | courtyard. Cycle gone missing with a baby seat attached.
           | Nothing anyone can do about it. How did they get the key, who
           | let them in, how did they manage to pry open the lock in full
           | visibility? I was seething for a week. But somehow I knew
           | this wasn't really that big a security challenge for the
           | thief.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | I just tried it (via Tor) and was able to get into the first 5
       | that duckduckgo found. Someone had been there before me and
       | (apparently) changed names of things. (I looked but didn't
       | touch.)
        
       | huang_chung wrote:
       | Interesting story but a CVE for this is a bit melodramatic and
       | why no one takes security folk seriously (cry wolf too many
       | times).
       | 
       | OpenWRT ships with no password at all (!) with full root access
       | on default install. The situation is the same: they politely
       | suggest you change it from the default (blank) password but do
       | not force you to do so.
       | 
       | By this logic every OpenWRT install (and many other softwares)
       | dating back many years should be subject to CVE.
        
         | NRv9tR wrote:
         | I assume you have to be on that network to access the login.
         | I'm 95% sure it the UI/admin is not accessible to the internet
         | by default... but also, yes that shit should be way better.
         | Even Comcast and other ISPs have done better than this for a
         | decade or more now.
        
           | huang_chung wrote:
           | If you believe you need to be on same network to compromise
           | internal interface web application you are gravely mistaken.
        
       | Neonlicht wrote:
       | You can get in the building with a bit of social engineering. I
       | live in an apartment complex. Put on a DHL or Dominos cap and
       | nobody cares. It's your front door lock that is the real barrier.
        
       | stevage wrote:
       | Jesus. The whole system seems to have been designed to maximise
       | the damage that can be caused with minimal effort.
       | 
       | Why are these admin pages web findable? Why is there a public
       | database of them? Why have they tried so hard to make it so
       | accessible? Why is there no security? Arrrrrgggh.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | Love this stuff, reminds me of old 2600 articles
        
       | kingkulk wrote:
       | Exposing a loophole in the best way. Great job
        
       | malaya_zemlya wrote:
       | There was a time where somebody in SF has figured admin access
       | code to older apartment intercoms (I believe they were
       | manufactured by Linear and maybe other companies too). These
       | intercoms would call the programmed in phone number whenever you
       | type in the apartment access code at the door.
       | 
       | So what they did is add a new fake tenant with a premium 1-900
       | number and used the intercom to call it, earning themseleves a
       | bit of cash. Naturally, landlords had to foot the bill.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | That sounds complicated and too much work. I'd prefer
       | <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rctzi66kCX4>
        
       | MBCook wrote:
       | I've always wondered: how do all these things end up in Google?
       | What's submitting the link, or public thing links to it?
        
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