[HN Gopher] Bitwarden Authenticator
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Bitwarden Authenticator
        
       Author : pil0u
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2025-02-23 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bitwarden.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bitwarden.com)
        
       | sepositus wrote:
       | > In this initial release, your data will be backed up through
       | the mobile operating system's backup services. Please make sure
       | your device is turned on and configured for backups. Bitwarden
       | Authenticator data is included in the OS backups and will be
       | restored with them.
       | 
       | At least it's not defaulting to their own cloud service backend.
       | This has always been my problem with these types of apps.
       | Although, I'm not sure I fully understand the above description.
       | I'm guessing if you have an iPhone with iCloud backup enabled, it
       | means data is backed up to iCloud.
        
         | hackmiester wrote:
         | Or if you are using "iTunes backups" it will store them in
         | there as well.
        
         | stwrzn wrote:
         | > New features on the roadmap include import, syncing to
         | Bitwarden accounts, push-based 2FA, and account recovery.
         | 
         | When syncing is added it would actually be something to
         | consider.
        
         | fn-mote wrote:
         | Are your cloud backups encrypted? Yes, but the key is backed up
         | too. [1]
         | 
         | The regular complaints here about iMessage not having good E2EE
         | is a specific exception written into the security policy.
         | 
         | Corrections welcome.
         | 
         | [1]: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/security-of-
         | icloud-...
        
           | janalsncm wrote:
           | It really depends what your threat model is. If you are
           | concerned about government intervention a TOTP isn't going to
           | stop them.
        
         | procaryote wrote:
         | Kinda worrying that it doesn't mention anything about how that
         | is secured.
         | 
         | Google Authenticator had the fun idea to opt people into
         | unencrypted (beyond whatever regular google drive files have)
         | cloud backup of 2fa secrets, and it's been exploited in the
         | ways you'd expect.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Both mobile operating systems use e2e encryption for the
           | backups.
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | On my Android, what's the upside of using this instead of
         | Google Authenticator if they both back up to the same place?
         | 
         | If they used their own cloud backend I would be a lot more
         | interested. They could even offer to store it in their cloud
         | end-to-end encrypted (making it my responsibility to keep the
         | password safe). That would give me similar exposure as their
         | password manager, which I'm already using.
        
       | NewJazz wrote:
       | How would this work on a degoogled android? I just use freeotp+
       | and have backup codes in case I lose the device.
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | Use Bitwarden with a Pro subscription ($10/year).
        
           | stwrzn wrote:
           | Or host self-host the server
        
             | rowlandc wrote:
             | Vault warden is much easier to self host and does all the
             | same things, without the need for a premium subscription
             | too.
        
               | cyberge99 wrote:
               | Why are people so adverse to having premium accounts if
               | it's reasonably priced and provides value?
        
               | elashri wrote:
               | You can pay customary $10 per year to bitwarden to
               | support and still selfhost valultwarden. Some people want
               | to have control and don't want to have to deal with VC
               | money getting in the way (1password was a hard learnt
               | lesson). Also vaultwarden seems lot cleaner and easier to
               | install and manage than official bitwarden server. And
               | you still rely on their clients.
        
               | Uvix wrote:
               | Vaultwarden _used_ to be a lot easier to install, but the
               | official server also has a single-container option now:
               | https://bitwarden.com/help/install-and-deploy-unified-
               | beta/
               | 
               | It's technically in public beta still, but I've been
               | using it for a year and a half without any issues.
        
         | therealpygon wrote:
         | One option would be Vaultwarden server for your password
         | storage (Bitwarden compatible) and 2FAS for auth (export once a
         | week and save the backup to your own cloud)
        
       | makeitdouble wrote:
       | Is it standard for Bitwarden to have absolutely no mention of a
       | any plan to also build a PC app ?
       | 
       | I can't find any.
        
         | sigmoid10 wrote:
         | Bitwarden does come with an app for every major operating
         | system. Or do you mean this authenticator app? It kind of goes
         | against the idea to have this anywhere but your phone.
        
           | serial_dev wrote:
           | I don't see why an authenticator app could not be used from
           | desktop or web.
        
           | saghm wrote:
           | Does it? I thought the whole point was to require something
           | that's not stored right next to the password in the database,
           | making it more resilient to leaks/hacks/incorrect hashing and
           | salting, etc. I don't think there's a single site where I
           | have the option to "remember this device" to avoid needing to
           | put in a 2FA code on every login where I haven't enabled it
           | on my personal devices, and on a lot of them, I'm not even
           | sure the cookies have ever expired. This seems like a case of
           | https://xkcd.com/1200/, although I'll throw in my favorite
           | personal example because of how absurd I find it: on the
           | Domino's pizza Android app, it allows me to open it after
           | months without using it and order food charged to my credit
           | card without needing to reenter my password, but if I want to
           | save something new as my "Easy Order" to avoid having to
           | manually put everything into the cart and then hit
           | "checkout", I have to put my password in again for that!
           | 
           | I've been lazily (in the "lazy evaluation" sense, not the
           | work ethic sense) moving my 2FA from a mobile app into
           | Bitwarden precisely because it's way more annoying to have to
           | take my phone out and manually enter a code from there v when
           | logging into things (especially since lately I've noticed
           | that I seem to get errors when the code still has a few
           | seconds left in the UI as being valid after I've already
           | gotten the response from the server not accepting it; I
           | asumed that this might be due to some issue with my phone
           | itself, but the fact that it still happens with the codes
           | being stored in Bitwarden and visible on the same screen
           | where I'm logging into makes me wonder if this is some new
           | intentional thing sites are doing intentionally without
           | regard to how weird an experience this will be for some
           | people).
        
         | Paul-Craft wrote:
         | Just use your Commodore 64 instead:
         | https://www.gadgetany.com/news/now-the-commodore-64-is-a-two...
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | I'm confused, doesn't BitWarden already include this
       | functionality? I've been using it for years, have they split it
       | out into a separate app?
       | 
       | I tend to use Aegis for the two services' TOTP codes that I don't
       | put into BitWarden.
        
         | twoparachute45 wrote:
         | The built-in TOTP in Bitwarden password manager is only
         | available to premium Bitwarden subscribers, requires you to
         | have a Bitwarden account, and stores your TOTP codes in
         | Bitwarden's servers.
         | 
         | This standalone app is available for free, can be used without
         | an account, and the TOTP codes are only stored locally (or
         | through your phone's native backup system).
         | 
         | Some people dislike the idea of storing TOTP codes in the same
         | location as passwords, so it seems this helps provide those
         | people with that separation, while still using Bitwarden
         | products (which tbh is cool with me - a lot of the other TOTP
         | apps on the appstores suck).
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | That makes sense, thank you!
        
           | elashri wrote:
           | > Some people dislike the idea of storing TOTP codes in the
           | same location as passwords,
           | 
           | And many organizations/companies have policy against that
           | although I don't know how can anyone enforce that.
        
           | nyolfen wrote:
           | > The built-in TOTP in Bitwarden password manager is only
           | available to premium Bitwarden subscribers, requires you to
           | have a Bitwarden account, and stores your TOTP codes in
           | Bitwarden's servers.
           | 
           | if you selfhost (eg with vaultwarden) you get all the pay
           | features for free
        
         | pooriamokhtari wrote:
         | Having TOTP tokens stored alongside passwords kind of defeats
         | the purpose of two-factor-authentication. I think this alone
         | justifies development of a separate app, but there must be
         | other reasons as well.
        
           | znkynz wrote:
           | Deffo a tradeoff. But then my bitwarden account is secured
           | with a long phasephrase, and MFA (with offline recovery
           | codes), with the TOTP in Google Authenticator. Its a
           | tradeoff, but on balance, i am happy to keep my TOTP for
           | accounts secured by bitwarden inside bitwarden.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | It doesn't support syncing between devices.
       | 
       | An alternative is Ente Auth:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40883839
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | I use this, it works great for when you're on a laptop and
         | can't be bothered to pull out your phone to enter the 2FA code
         | (because it works cross-platform on web, desktop, and mobile,
         | all syncing together). Yes, technically this is a corruption of
         | the principles of why you'd need 2FA in the first place, as the
         | second factor is obviated when everything is on one device, but
         | I find the risk acceptable, no one is going to hack into my
         | laptop at home, and if they do, I have bigger things to worry
         | about than 2FA.
        
         | magixx wrote:
         | Can you elaborate? The android app, browser extension, and
         | desktop app all keep in sync for me.
        
           | riffraff wrote:
           | Are you talking of bit warden password manager or bitwarden
           | authenticator? The latter does not seem to have a desktop
           | version.
        
       | yoyohello13 wrote:
       | So I've been a happy Bitwarden subscriber since about 2020. I
       | originally picked it because it seemed like a good compromise
       | between open source options like keepassxc and something less
       | trustworthy like one password.
       | 
       | I haven't really be paying much attention to Bitwarden lately,
       | but I've heard they've taken vc/got bought out or something. So
       | for those more in the know, is it time to start migrating? Or
       | does Bitwarden still seem like it's on a good path?
        
         | aetherspawn wrote:
         | Why do you say 1Password isn't trustworthy? We've been using 1P
         | close to a decade and they've managed to not leak our passwords
         | that whole time, unlike many other cloud password managers who
         | have had breaches.
        
           | yoyohello13 wrote:
           | Sorry, I didn't mean to specifically call out 1password. I
           | should have said "closed source" not "untrustworthy". Last
           | time I looked at password managers Bitwarden and keepass were
           | the only real oss solutions. And Bitwarden had better qualify
           | of life features.
        
       | marcosscriven wrote:
       | How does this compare to Authy? I use Bitwarden and have been
       | very frustrated with their UI changes.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | Yeah, their UI is getting worst. Now some genius decided that
         | the default if you touch a login, is to edit, not to fill the
         | form.
        
           | tecleandor wrote:
           | Yeah! I hated that! Thankfully I found that you can change
           | that behavior in a preference.
        
           | deanmoriarty wrote:
           | I prefer the new default behavior, filling the form for my
           | use cases never happens through the vault view, it's always
           | done via keyboard shortcut or autofill suggestion icon. I use
           | the vault view to look at additional notes like secret
           | questions/etc, so I'm glad it works that way.
        
           | locusofself wrote:
           | I hate this too
        
         | dankwizard wrote:
         | Do a few searches of "Authy" and you'll be switching sooner
         | rather than later. Absolutely awful app.
        
       | mdevere wrote:
       | Big fan of Bitwarden, albeit you are putting a single point of
       | failure on all of your secure info.
       | 
       | I'd love to know what others do to maximise both convenience and
       | security.
       | 
       | For two-factor authentication, I wouldn't use the same service
       | for both layers. Seems daft to use Bitwarden as both the password
       | keeper and the TOTP provider. Not sure if that's a
       | cryptographically coherent view, but hey.
        
         | tomasff wrote:
         | Bitwarden Authenticator is a separate service. Even if you
         | don't use bitwarden you can use this apparently
        
       | ViVr wrote:
       | I'd like to see them add support for including attachments in
       | your Bitwarden exports before i go putting any more critical data
       | into their ecosytem.
       | 
       | It has been a feature request for close to 6 years now:
       | https://community.bitwarden.com/t/allow-attachments-to-be-ex...
        
         | jackhalford wrote:
         | Personally I just backup the underlying filesystem (i.e /data)
         | that vaultwarden uses.
         | 
         | Edit: I realize you are probably using bitwarden directly, in
         | which case don't you trust them to safeguard your data?
         | 
         | ps: if it's just ssh keys, just store them as key value pairs?
         | I haven't kept ssh keys for a long time thanks to tailscale
         | ssh...
        
           | ViVr wrote:
           | > I realize you are probably using bitwarden directly, in
           | which case don't you trust them to safeguard your data?
           | 
           | Yes i use bitwarden directly, no self hosting. I do trust
           | them keep my data safe (although i also trusted LastPass at
           | some point, big mistake) but why not also keep a local copy,
           | just in case. The type of data you store in bitwarden is
           | worth the hassle and if Bitwarden Inc. ever gets into big
           | trouble suddenly you'll be glad to have the backup.
        
       | jackhalford wrote:
       | Funny this pops up today, I've finished migrating form KeepassXC
       | to a self hosted vaultwarden, the official bitwarden apps and
       | briwser extension are super well made, so good so far with the
       | switch.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-02-23 23:00 UTC)