[HN Gopher] Thailand to Cut Power to Myanmar Scam Hubs
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       Thailand to Cut Power to Myanmar Scam Hubs
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2025-02-23 03:22 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bangkoklocal.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bangkoklocal.info)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | That happened 17 days ago (24 points, 5 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42962545
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Feb 20, https://apnews.com/article/myanmar-online-scam-centers-
         | myawa...
         | 
         |  _> An airlift carrying more than 1,000 Chinese nationals who
         | had worked at online scam centers in eastern Myanmar began
         | Thursday.. Thailand, China and Myanmar have coordinated efforts
         | over the past month to shut down the scam centers that bilked
         | victims around the world out of billions of dollars through
         | false romantic ploys, bogus investment pitches and illegal
         | gambling schemes. Thai officials said recently that as many as
         | 10,000 people may be repatriated from Myanmar.. Thai Prime
         | Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra on a visit to Beijing earlier
         | this month told Chinese leader Xi Jinping that Thailand would
         | crack down on the scam networks. Just ahead of her visit,
         | Thailand cut off electricity, internet and gas supplies to
         | several areas in Myanmar.. An earlier crackdown on scam centers
         | in Myanmar happened in late 2023.. Ethnic guerrilla groups with
         | close ties to Beijing shut down many operations_
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43149372
         | 
         |  _> This all happened because they kidnapped a Chinese actor,
         | maybe fake casting call ads are not the wisest idea -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Wang_Xing_
         | On January 3, 2025, Wang Xing (stage name "Xingxing"), a
         | Chinese actor, was deceived into a scam center in Myanmar by a
         | fraud group under the pretext of "going to Thailand for filming
         | work". After Wang Xing lost contact, his girlfriend Jiajia
         | posted a message for help through social media and actively
         | contacted relevant authorities. This incident attracted the
         | attention of the Chinese film industry. Many actors posted
         | about this matter, prompting the Chinese Embassy in Thailand,
         | the Chinese Consulate General in Chiang Mai and the Thai police
         | to intervene in the investigation and search and rescue.
         | 
         | From the AP link above, on Myanmar organized crime advertising
         | Thailand as work location:
         | 
         |  _> Thailand wants to cooperate with China since reports about
         | scam workers being trafficked through Thailand have circulated
         | widely on Chinese social media. The Thai government and others
         | fear it will discourage the lucrative market of inbound Chinese
         | tourists._
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | Icarus always flies too close to the sun.
        
           | mvdtnz wrote:
           | These illegal scam prisons are run by Chinese nationals and
           | almost certainly backed by CCP. It's very cute for the
           | Chinese government to pretend they don't have a direct hand
           | in this scourge.
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | From the AP article:
             | 
             |  _> about 200 Chinese citizens "suspected of involvement in
             | fraud" were flown to an airport in the city of Nanjing,
             | China's official Xinhua news agency said._
        
               | mvdtnz wrote:
               | Exactly what I'm talking about. CCP are now pretending
               | they didn't know / fund these people from the beginning.
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | Who would have guessed - that this is what the singularity boiled
       | down to- AI scaming and hacking humans - which thus regresses
       | into tribal factions. What a letdown!
       | 
       | Gut Ding will Kurzweil haben.
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | I mean isn't that what a lot of cyberpunk predicted?
        
       | Neonlicht wrote:
       | I wonder if things deteriorate into a failed state China will
       | intervene. They did that in the 1970s with Cambodia. But who
       | knows America and India will probably go ape shit.
        
         | bilbo0s wrote:
         | I'd bet any money that while China might not go in overtly,
         | they'd be the main silent-backers of Thai forces that could go
         | in overtly with fewer objections from abroad. (Or, maybe it'd
         | be more accurate to say that, the Thais wouldn't care as much
         | about the objections from abroad as the Chinese would?)
         | 
         | It could even be that everyone is misjudging the asians
         | entirely? And it's bad enough that at even the slightest
         | provocation from the warlords, we'll see Thai _and_ Chinese
         | troops flood in. Consequences be damned. This would be the
         | worst outcome for the rest of the world, but probably the best
         | outcome for the people currently being terrorized and held
         | hostage by these thugs. I just hope it doesn 't get to that
         | point.
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | > the Thais wouldn't care as much about the objections from
           | abroad as the Chinese
           | 
           | That is absolutely not how Thailand works. If Thailand does
           | anything, it'll be exclusively on the Thai side of the
           | border.
        
           | throaway1989 wrote:
           | If China does anything it will be in support of the Tatmadaw,
           | either overtly or covertly.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | The Tatmadaw isn't a unified force either anymore.
             | 
             | It's got it's own factions, and mid-level leadership
             | (especially the farther out you get from Naypyidaw) allies
             | with China, Thailand, or India.
        
               | throaway1989 wrote:
               | That's interesting, do you have any links to the
               | different factions in the Tat right now?
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Sadly, not off the top of my head.
               | 
               | (Edit: here you go. An overview from 2021 by the Tea
               | Circle group formerly at St Anthony's College, Oxford but
               | now at UToronto Munk -
               | https://teacircleoxford.com/politics/peering-under-the-
               | hood-...)
               | 
               | A lot of this came up in a meetup I participated in a
               | couple years ago at HKS.
               | 
               | But at a high level, you'll see Chinese weapon sales [0]
               | happen at the same time as Indian weapon sales [1] to the
               | Tatmadaw, despite both China and India directly competing
               | with each other.
               | 
               | Sadly, Myanmar was always a basket case because the
               | British ignored it when it was British India and later
               | British Burma, so outside the Bamar core, the state never
               | truly existed on the ground.
               | 
               | And after the 2020 China-India standoff, Myanmar became
               | even more of a conflict zone because at it's shortest
               | it's a 40 mile buffer zone between Assam and Yunnan.
               | 
               | [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/un-expert-says-
               | russia-china-se...
               | 
               | [1] - https://amp.dw.com/en/how-india-is-supporting-
               | myanmars-milit...
        
           | csomar wrote:
           | Thailand is not invading Myanmar for China, they are pretty
           | conservative when it comes to such politics.
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43150897
             | 
             |  _> Thai Prime Minister Paetongtarn Shinawatra on a visit
             | to Beijing earlier this month told Chinese leader Xi
             | Jinping that Thailand would crack down on the scam
             | networks. Just ahead of her visit, Thailand cut off
             | electricity, internet and gas supplies to several areas in
             | Myanmar.. Thailand wants to cooperate with China since
             | reports about scam workers being trafficked through
             | Thailand have circulated widely on Chinese social media.
             | The Thai government and others fear it will discourage the
             | lucrative market of inbound Chinese tourists._
        
         | odiroot wrote:
         | > They did that in the 1970s with Cambodia.
         | 
         | You mean the Third Indochina War? It wasn't really about
         | Cambodia being a failed state but a far consequence of a Sino-
         | Soviet split.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | That overstates the Soviet aspect and severely understates
           | the Vietnamese aspect.
           | 
           | For Vietnam, Cambodia is their near abroad. Saigon is barely
           | 20 miles away from Cambodia, and the Mekong is the lifeblood
           | of Southern Vietnam, and Cambodian factions (the same ones
           | the Chinese backed in the 1970s) had supported anti-
           | Vietnamese insurgencies in Gia Lai.
           | 
           | Cambodia and Laos became a buffer state for China+Thailand
           | and Vietnam the same way Myanmar has become one for China,
           | Thailand, and India.
        
         | thuanao wrote:
         | Deteriorate? Myanmar has been a failed state for 60 years. To
         | give you an idea of what I mean, their current and previous
         | dictators consult witch doctors for their decisions, and the
         | largest city of 5 million doesn't have continuous electricity.
         | One of the _many_ ongoing wars in Myanmar, The Karen conflict,
         | is one of the longest-running armed conflicts in the world.
         | Myanmar has been a total mess since end of WWII.
        
           | throw__away7391 wrote:
           | Meh, witch doctors or pastors, pick your poison.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | Don't worry.
             | 
             | Plenty of the rebel groups consult with Southern Baptist
             | pastors - especially in Chin State and Saigang.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | > I wonder if things deteriorate into a failed state
         | 
         | Myanmar is basically a Southeast Asian version of Congo.
         | 
         | All the neighboring countries (China, India, Thailand) have
         | already de facto intervened by maintaining relations with and
         | arming regional warlords, and "their" guys in the Tatmadaw.
         | 
         | For example,
         | 
         | - China and the MDNAA [0] and the Wa State [1], and their
         | "Goma" is Muse and Mongla
         | 
         | - India and the ethnic Chin opposition [2][3] and the Arakan
         | Army [4] (the guys who did the Rohingya Genocide - they flipped
         | from China to India in 23-24), and their "Goma" is Tamu and
         | Sittwe.
         | 
         | - Thailand's Military Government's continued support of the
         | Myanmar Tatmadaw [5], and their "Goma" is Myawaddy,
         | Payathonzhu, Shwekoko (the city mentioned above), and Mawdaung.
         | 
         | China, India, and Thailand are all enabling the worst actors in
         | Myanmar's civil war, and it's the civilians that lose.
         | 
         | > They did that in the 1970s with Cambodia
         | 
         | Which sparked a regional war with Vietnam in 1979, and multiple
         | coups and counter-coups by Chinese and Vietnamese backed
         | factions in Cambodia and Laos.
         | 
         | If Cambodia and Laos was chaotic, Myanmar will be 1,000 times
         | worse, because several ethnic groups in Myanmar have large
         | (1mil+) populations in both China and India, so the risk of
         | regional contagion is massive, and has already started in
         | Manipur [6].
         | 
         | [0] - https://www.usip.org/publications/2024/08/myanmars-junta-
         | los...
         | 
         | [1] - https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/ethnic-issues/wa-state-
         | aims-t...
         | 
         | [2] - https://www.bnionline.net/en/news/chinland-council-and-
         | chin-...
         | 
         | [3] - https://theprint.in/india/chin-rebel-leader-lauds-indias-
         | hel...
         | 
         | [4] - https://thediplomat.com/2024/03/is-india-finally-waking-
         | up-t...
         | 
         | [5] -
         | https://r2pasiapacific.org/files/8231/2022_Thai_response_mya...
         | 
         | [6] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/fighters-myanmar-
         | civil-w...
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | Old news, they turned on diesel generators and Starlink and
       | shifted around.
       | 
       | They obviously would have taken a hit and Thailand has already
       | shut down cell towers on the Cambodia border near Poi Pet where
       | they moved some operations.
       | 
       | They should have been reading HN and how solar is cheaper than
       | anything else, silly criminals doing real world stuff.
       | 
       | This all happened because they kidnapped a Chinese actor, maybe
       | fake casting call ads are not the wisest idea -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Wang_Xing
        
         | pca006132 wrote:
         | Tbh I feel like the people didn't care much about it because
         | the people who got kidnapped there were mostly attracted by job
         | offers that were known to be shady (quick money), so there
         | wasn't much discussion around this. The actor getting kidnapped
         | is different: People suddenly found that you can be kidnapped
         | even when the offer seems legit and only staying in Thailand.
         | This forced the government (both China and Thailand) to take
         | action to address the concerns.
         | 
         | But I think this will come back again. This kidnapping thing is
         | not new, and it caught media attention a few years ago as well,
         | they just go silent for a period of time and continue their
         | operation later.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | it's very odd that China doesn't really care about an
           | estimated 100K of its citizens getting trafficked in this
           | manner.
           | 
           | It's such an open secret that there was a $500MM box office
           | movie about it last year, and media censorship is so heavy in
           | China that I wonder what admitting this even means.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_More_Bets
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | _> 100K of its citizens getting trafficked_
             | 
             | Is there public data on their demographics, e.g.
             | occupation, income, age, credit score, region of China?
        
       | prododev wrote:
       | Good luck to the people being held prisoner in these hubs.
       | Hopefully they can escape the abuse and violence, and not just be
       | trafficked to another hub.
        
         | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
         | What a horrible fate to be abducted to one of these hellholes.
        
         | codelion wrote:
         | it's a grim situation... i hope there are resources available
         | to help those who manage to escape, and that more is done to
         | prevent these hubs from operating in the first place.
        
       | FabHK wrote:
       | The Economist has an excellent and heartbreaking podcast about
       | this scam industry that they estimate at $500bn annually, but
       | it's available to subscribers only I believe.
       | 
       | Crypto use cases:
       | 
       | 1. Financing North Korea's nuclear missile program
       | 
       | 2. Harrowing scams
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | Is it this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUg-cLVhv-4
        
           | FabHK wrote:
           | Yes:
           | 
           | https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | 3 is "doing anything the government doesn't like", which
         | includes, for example, buying drugs, or funding protests
         | against mass murder.
        
           | mvdtnz wrote:
           | Yes, it's true that crime is a third major category of use
           | cases.
        
           | int0x29 wrote:
           | It's much better at scamming and funding weapons programs
           | than protest or disobedience because crypto transactions are
           | non reversable but tend to leave a lot of tracks behind. If
           | persons involved are anywhere that they can be arrested or
           | intimidated they will be.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | I swear, have y'all bought drugs? You don't need crypto to do
           | it, dealers take Venmo.
           | 
           | Hell, the lady I get very much not legal shrooms from has a
           | Shopify site. I get a receipt in my email, a tracking number,
           | and she asks to rate her shop 5 stars.
           | 
           | Saying that this is a use-case for crypto implies a level of
           | drug enforcement that simply doesn't exist.
        
             | DecentShoes wrote:
             | Dark web vendors do not take any form of payment other than
             | cryptocurrency.
        
               | maleldil wrote:
               | You don't need dark web vendors. Normal web has plenty.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | Well yeah, vegetarians only accept food without meat.
               | You've already limited yourself to a subset of dealers
               | who are privacy and tech nerds, of course they only take
               | crypto.
               | 
               | You _can_ use crypto to buy drugs on the  "dark web" but
               | like all crypto things it's not a system for the masses.
               | I had to explain E2EE one of my friends who thought
               | Snapchat was better than iMessage for buying drugs
               | because it "deletes" the message. There's no universe
               | she's gonna figure out crypto.
        
         | jnsaff2 wrote:
         | Number Go Up book also has couple of chapters on those and how
         | they are tied into the whole crypto business[0].
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Go_Up
        
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