[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Is anyone still using Dreamweaver?
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       Ask HN: Is anyone still using Dreamweaver?
        
       When I was learning to build websites in 2010 Dreamweaver was the
       go-to. I remember it thoroughly confused the heck out of me. Anyone
       here able to use it effectively?
        
       Author : gillytech
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2025-02-22 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
       | anonzzzies wrote:
       | Dreamweaver confused? It was a drag & drop & point & click web
       | builder; what was confusing about it? There are many similar
       | tools now, free and paid, haven't heard about Dreamweaver in a
       | long while, so while I don't understand the confusing part, I am
       | very curious if anyone is using it still. I do see it is still
       | sold (and maintained?).
        
       | jbs789 wrote:
       | This is a question. What is your real question? Are you looking
       | to build something now?
        
         | throwaway127482 wrote:
         | Ever heard of curiosity?
        
       | hnuser123456 wrote:
       | Nobody uses it to build anything professional, it's a cute toy
        
         | jon-wood wrote:
         | I would hope nobody is using it for anything professional now
         | but it was definitely used back in the day, my first
         | professional development job was for a small agency which used
         | Dreamweaver for everything. I'm not saying that was a good
         | thing, it generated some of the worst code I've ever seen, but
         | it was used.
        
         | PhilipRoman wrote:
         | It is always funny to see "professional" code or tools compared
         | with "toys". In reality, it is precisely the "professional",
         | "enterprise" stuff that turns out to be a giant pile of shit
         | (which we rarely get to see from outside). There are
         | professional businesses storing their main database in Excel,
         | while the amateurs obsess over whether Postgres is scalable
         | enough.
        
           | koakuma-chan wrote:
           | Real professionals use MongoDB because it is web scale.
        
         | pacifika wrote:
         | I think I used it to build an ie5 for Macintosh compatible
         | Sharepoint theme.
         | 
         | Age check if you're shuddering now.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | While you are correct that few are using it to build
         | "professional" sites, it was never really a toy. Pretty
         | powerful for the time, and even let you integrate with a number
         | of backend technologies, database servers, etc. For today's
         | world, where you need 3000 Javascript packages to display
         | "Hello World", it's not a good fit.
        
       | babuloseo wrote:
       | I still cant believe what Adobe did with Flash.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | What were they supppise to do with Flash?
        
           | blargthorwars wrote:
           | Make the Flash plugin not suck, and provide Javascript
           | rendering for HTML clients that couldn't install it.
        
           | ssag2 wrote:
           | I used it yesterday to plot out a deck I'm building. The
           | ability to draw easily, snap to grid, custom rulers, makes it
           | a great design tool. Better than Corel Draw anyway.
        
         | aradox66 wrote:
         | I miss flash
        
         | Apreche wrote:
         | Really, it's more about what Apple did with Flash. iOS not
         | supporting it is what killed it.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | Flash being a persistent security hole and memory hog is what
           | killed it. Adobe should have gotten their shit together.
           | Apple saved us from the hell of fixed resolution flash apps
           | and dozens of flash ads on a page.
        
             | unsupp0rted wrote:
             | Steve Jobs talked about this- when asked by the audience
             | why he wasn't supporting Flash, he said the main thing
             | people will be missing out on is banner ads. And he was
             | mostly right.
        
         | UltraSane wrote:
         | You should have seen what VMware did with Flash when they
         | moronically rewrote vCenter client in it. Worst software ever.
        
       | cactusplant7374 wrote:
       | There must be a successor, right?
        
         | Bayart wrote:
         | Webflow ? Squarespace ? I assumed that segment had been
         | occupied by CMS and SaaS companies.
        
           | rafram wrote:
           | Absolutely Squarespace (and WordPress). Non-technical website
           | maintainers don't want an HTML editor; they want their
           | website to have an edit button.
        
           | mentos wrote:
           | I tried out Webflow this past week was a pretty enjoyable
           | experience took me back to Dreamweaver days a bit.
        
         | JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote:
         | I doubt it's worth it since you can get the same results in a
         | few hours with Tailwind.
        
         | mattront wrote:
         | Pinegrow Web Editor [0] (I'm the author) gets a lot of ex-
         | Dreamweaver users who are looking for a more modern
         | alternative.
         | 
         | [0] https://pinegrow.com
        
       | 42lux wrote:
       | I am volunteering in a school library and someone ,,built" their
       | system with Dreamweaver and FileMaker. It's still in use on an
       | airgapped winxp machine.
        
       | throwaway743 wrote:
       | Notepad was even better than dreamweaver. Never touched it and
       | was taught to stay away.
        
       | jamesgreenleaf wrote:
       | People keep telling me to use Dreamweaver but I stick with what
       | works: FrontPage 98
        
         | smitelli wrote:
         | Microsoft Word's "Save as Web Page" or GTFO.
        
           | trinix912 wrote:
           | That's ironically still the easiest way to go for HTML emails
           | as the output is almost guaranteed to display well across
           | various email clients that don't implement CSS properly
           | (Outlook).
        
             | fredoralive wrote:
             | IIRC Outlook[1] just uses the Word engine internally, so
             | it's going to share the same quirks.
             | 
             | (I also seem to remember that Internet Explorer's Trident
             | engine started as a fork from Word, although that's
             | presumably a bit less direct in the later versions).
             | 
             | [1] At least proper desktop Win32 Outlook, not the dozens
             | of other things Microsoft have called Outlook.
        
             | riskneutral wrote:
             | > email clients that don't implement CSS properly
             | (Outlook).
             | 
             | Can anyone explain how this is even possible? It's 2025.
        
           | amlib wrote:
           | Using view source in IE to discover how certain layouts and
           | effects were done and trying to replicate it on Notepad...
           | and then downloading Dreamweaver because you were a n00b and
           | needed that WYSIWYG goodness.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Kids these days. The last good vintage FrontPage was from
         | Vermeer.
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | Oh man, I'm gonna have to upgrade my AOLPress from 1.2.2 to
         | 2.0!
        
         | kxrm wrote:
         | FrontPage Express was what I used to build my first website.
         | (personal project with friends) I learned so much about HTML
         | simply because of the limitations in FrontPage Express.
        
           | viccis wrote:
           | Same. I built a rockin Pokemon website with it when I was 9.
        
             | riskneutral wrote:
             | Awesome
        
         | InsideOutSanta wrote:
         | That's nothing, you'll have to pry my Mac with System 8 and
         | GoLive CyberStudio (winner of most 90s application name) from
         | my cold, dead hands.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | Anyone ever use Homestead around that era?
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Haha ok grandpa! _tabs back to iWeb_
        
         | cr125rider wrote:
         | I was a kid the last time I touched front page. Why did my
         | simple site need front page extensions on the server? It was
         | basically a static site. Finding a free web host with those
         | extensions was near impossible.
        
       | neom wrote:
       | I do!!!!!! I love dreamwaver even today, I'm surprised people
       | don't use it, they have done an amazing job keeping it up to date
       | - it's honestly a joy to use. Granted: I'm not a real dev/swe,
       | just a dude who likes to mess around with webtech, still, I think
       | "real devs" would enjoy it too, it's great to use.
       | 
       | I learn web on dreamweaver, I would make something on the front
       | end WYSIWYG editor, and then "turn it around" (I called it in my
       | head) and look at the "back of it" (I was a kid) - anyway, tables
       | and frames and dhtml baby!!!!
       | 
       | Also: https://s.h4x.club/nOu445qL :) :)
        
         | don-code wrote:
         | I did the same, except with Netscape Composer. That was a time
         | where the output of the WYSIWYG editor - really, the source of
         | any page - was pretty digestible, even to me as a middle school
         | student.
         | 
         | I've noticed recently that the JavaScript debugger in Firefox
         | can "un-Webpack" (and in some cases un-minify, if I've read the
         | inputs and outputs correctly) the code behind many sites. It's
         | certainly not as approachable as declarative HTML, but I
         | suspect to some enterprising person, that route is still open.
        
           | trinix912 wrote:
           | I think it was Microsoft FrontPage that had the most
           | undigestible output at the time. A mess of tables, inline
           | styles, Internet Explorer-specific tricks, plus a reliance on
           | FrontPage Server Extensions for full functionality.
           | 
           | Adobe still had GoLive at the time, which was basically what
           | Dreamweaver is now, and it didn't mangle the output as much,
           | neither did Netscape Composer (which was way more limited).
           | Many of the simpler WYSIWYG editors (Netscape Composer, that
           | thing AOL had, etc.) were not nearly as bad as FrontPage.
        
             | jszymborski wrote:
             | FrontPage is what I made my first sites on as a child. That
             | was such a fun experience.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | I forgot if FrontPage had the automatic FTP upload or if
             | it's a fantasy in my mind.
        
               | clintonb wrote:
               | Dreamweaver had FTP uploads. Frontpage only uploaded to
               | servers that supported their protocol.
        
             | nativeit wrote:
             | FrontPage was indeed terrible, it caused me to make an even
             | worse decision in the 1990's---make websites almost
             | entirely out of image maps, and then eventually that
             | terrible idea evolved into the classic terrible approach to
             | early '00's web frontends (bum bum bum): _Macromedia Flash_
             | and Actionscript (the latter of which I actually remember
             | fondly, although I may just be remembering it with rose-
             | tinted glasses).
             | 
             | Edit: clarification of bad writing
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | Oh man that reminds me of customizing people Neopets
               | personal pages as kid. Image maps and tables everywhere.
        
           | ambentzen wrote:
           | > I've noticed recently that the JavaScript debugger in
           | Firefox can "un-Webpack" (and in some cases un-minify, if
           | I've read the inputs and outputs correctly) the code behind
           | many sites. It's certainly not as approachable as declarative
           | HTML, but I suspect to some enterprising person, that route
           | is still open.
           | 
           | That's just sourcemaps I think. Pretty standard stuff, but
           | the site have to provide the maps.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | heh, late 90s war3z was larger than I thought.
         | 
         | ps: Kevin Lynch got a nice career now
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Lynch_(computing)
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | I stopped using it ages ago but I still use its HTML code colour
       | scheme into whatever code editor I use, nothing else feels right.
        
       | lewdwig wrote:
       | I think the emerging meta seems to be using LLMs that will create
       | HTML components for you from your Figma storyboards.
       | 
       | And also to let another LLM create your Figma storyboards from
       | your novel design ideas.
       | 
       | And asking a third LLM to give you some novel design ideas.
        
         | canadiantim wrote:
         | Yep this does seem to be the emerging meta.
         | 
         | Have you found success with some models over others?
        
           | pockybum522 wrote:
           | I'm not sure they were being serious.
        
         | neither_color wrote:
         | One prompt to generate 75% of what you want and get you excited
         | and fill you with a sense of dread over what it means for
         | future tech careers.
         | 
         | 10 prompts to add a new feature.
         | 
         | 20 prompts to add a second feature and fix everything that
         | broke in the 1st feature while adding the second.
         | 
         | 50 prompts to add a third feature and fix what broke in the 1st
         | and 2nd features while adding the third.
        
           | LaGrange wrote:
           | One for the Dark Lord on his Dark Throne,
           | 
           | In the damp bedroom where the doges lie,
           | 
           | One Prompt to rule them all, One prompt to find them,
           | 
           | One Prompt to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
           | 
           | In the damp bedroom where the black molds lie.
           | 
           | Edit: don't judge me I'm not a poet.
        
         | aruggirello wrote:
         | You forgot a fourth LLM will be the one using the site.
        
           | deadbabe wrote:
           | And a fifth LLM created from training data scraped from the
           | site.
        
       | markx2 wrote:
       | I probably tried to use a pirated version of Dreamweaver.
       | 
       | But I loved HomeSite.
       | 
       | https://nick.typepad.com/blog/2009/06/homesite-discontinued....
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Homesite was the first editor I used extensively for web
         | development (after trying some of the other options like HotDog
         | Pro, etc). It was small enough, and simple enough, that you
         | could run it directly from a 1.44mb floppy. (I was poor in
         | college and relied on computer labs) Later went on to use
         | Allaire's ColdFusion Studio, which was a superset of Homesite,
         | for several years.
        
       | Dachande663 wrote:
       | I loved dreamweaver when starting out. Never got on with the
       | WYSIWYG (hence moving on), but its ability to read your CSS file
       | and suggest classes was great. MX was the pinnacle in early
       | 2000s.
       | 
       | More relevant to me though, I miss Fireworks so much. Nothing
       | comes closer. Figma is great but web based and already shown
       | willing to sell out everyone who trusts them.
        
         | cynicalsecurity wrote:
         | Lunacy is just like Figma but local.
        
       | zer0x4d wrote:
       | An ode to Dreamweaver
       | 
       | Dreamweaver was how I learned MySQL back when I was 12-13 and got
       | into web development. I don't remember how I came across it but
       | somehow things, the way they were laid out at the time, made
       | sense to me. This would ripple into a career that's making my
       | living 16 years later.
       | 
       | I remember downloading XAMPP and installing it to get a local
       | MySQL and PhpMyAdmin server. A few clicks in Dreamweaver later, I
       | somehow had a connection file that would connect to my local
       | MySQL server. I started playing around with it and creating
       | different forms. The MySQL query generators on Dreamweaver were
       | so simple that you could, with a few clicks, have a full on CRM.
       | 
       | I ended up coding a test score reporting system for my middle
       | school class and the school somehow trusted me and started using
       | it. This made me possibly the most hated person in the school
       | because parents could now see their kids scores every day and
       | there was no more "Oh the teacher hasn't given out the scores
       | yet." But it was good times, and I was so excited about it.
       | 
       | Many years later, I now run a startup and have transitioned into
       | using Node.js but MySQL is still my bread and butter. I still
       | remember that day when I discovered the SELECT query.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | I loved the XAMPP logo
        
       | evanmoran wrote:
       | When Dreamweaver integrates GPT4o it will finally reach
       | mainstream. I can imagine the podcast ad-spots already. Watch out
       | SquareSpace. Disruption comes for us all.
       | 
       | (P.S: I did use Dreamweaver in the early 2000s. It was great. I'm
       | surprised it still is running! RIP Fireworks)
        
       | teej wrote:
       | Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time.
       | 
       | Early 2000s Adobe was stacked with web technology. They knew
       | where the world was headed, but didn't quite capture it the right
       | way.
       | 
       | Flash, Shockwave, Dreamweaver, Macromedia Homesite, Fireworks,
       | Coldfusion, Adobe AIR, LiveMotion, Actionscript 3.0, MXML, Flex.
       | 
       | They shipped so much software, it's incredible.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | What's even more interesting is when you look at some of those
         | tools, many of them were actually way more straightforward to
         | use to design websites without much coding than what we have
         | today. Just like how we had all those CRUD rapid app
         | development tools that would build the app for you just from a
         | database model (Access, PowerBuilder, Delphi, FoxPro...). While
         | what we have today is arguably way more powerful, we've lost
         | some of that simplicity (at least for more trivial use cases)
         | along the way.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | Macromedia is really where to point most of that admiration
         | IMO. Most of the products you list were developed there and
         | then Adobe bought the company.
         | 
         | Jeremy Allaire somehow flies under the radar as an impactful
         | tech entrepreneur, but look at this resume: Allaire Corp,
         | Macromedia, Brightcove, Circle.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Allaire
        
       | perardi wrote:
       | I can't imagine anyone is still using Dreamweaver--that market
       | must have been utterly subsumed by Squarespace. If you are a,
       | say, small business that needs a 3-5 page marketing site with
       | contact info and about pages, surely it makes more sense to use
       | Squarespace (or wix, or what have you).
       | 
       | But this sent me down a memory rabbit hole...a former manager of
       | mine _loved_ Brackets. Brackets was Adobe's open-source text
       | editor (https://opensource.adobe.com/brackets.io/?lang=en) that
       | was sorta VSCode, but prettier.
       | 
       | Adobe sunsetted that project, but it still apparently somewhat
       | lives on, in the form of Phoenix Code. (https://phcode.dev) And
       | it still does look very "designed" in comparison to VSCode. I
       | really like the default typography, tag highlighting, and some of
       | the details of the text editor itself.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | > I can't imagine anyone is still using Dreamweaver--that
         | market must have been utterly subsumed by Squarespace. If you
         | are a, say, small business that needs a 3-5 page marketing site
         | with contact info and about pages, surely it makes more sense
         | to use Squarespace (or wix, or what have you).
         | 
         | You're right, considering that Dreamweaver is SaaS now. Were it
         | a single purchase it would actually be more affordable for
         | independent webmasters making websites as one could buy a
         | single copy of Dreamweaver, make several websites, and host
         | them on a single server with multiple domain names, while not
         | paying the subscription over and over again.
        
         | nightpool wrote:
         | Does it? IMO it looks very outdated and cluttered compared to
         | most editors. Clicking around a bit, this screen specifically
         | stood out to me as lacking a lot of visual hierarchy:
         | https://i.imgur.com/Y7iBS2p.png. It just kind of reads as a
         | visual jumble with too many elements competing for your
         | attention with slightly different/incoherent styling--I count 5
         | different unique button styles on this page alone, with some
         | buttons having flat borders, some buttons having shiny
         | highlights, and 3 completely different shades of grey button
         | borders. Definitely doesn't feel "designed" to me.
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | No, no one is using it. It never was a go-to tool even back then.
       | I feel old by just remembering it.
       | 
       | Dreamweaver solved no one's problems.
       | 
       | 1) Regular users didn't need it: they couldn't use it for
       | publishing their web-sites anyway. They quickly just switched to
       | social media for publishing their content.
       | 
       | 2) Dreamweaver was not a great tool for professionals too. Its
       | code editor was not convenient and overall the program felt
       | really poor in features. It never could catch up with new
       | features of web. Besides, no one creates whole pages and
       | Dreamweaver didn't support dividing a page into parts like
       | header, main part, menu, articles footer etc, as far as I
       | remember. This would be a way too much complicated task to
       | implement.
       | 
       | So it was just a tool for students. If you were learning HTML, it
       | was a fine tool to learn it. That's it. It was never used in real
       | work.
       | 
       | The name "Dreamweaver" is really cool though, I must give them
       | credit. It sounds even way too cool for such a simple program as
       | it was. It should have been used for an iconic film or a video
       | game instead.
       | 
       | Unexpected bottom line: do we need something like Dreamweaver
       | which wouldn't suck? Yes. Figma got so successful because it
       | allowed creating prototypes and was solving real life problems.
       | Now a new program like Dreamweaver could solve the problem of
       | quick prototyping and generating HTML code for something like
       | React components.
       | 
       | Would it be a complicated app? Yes. Would it require a lot of
       | programming? Yes. Would it immediately bring money? No. So
       | currently it's probably won't be a good idea to work on it.
       | 
       | You can create something like a visual editor module for HTML
       | pages or react components to be used in modern IDEs. Maybe even
       | just by embedding a non-read only WebView with some cleverly
       | butchered developer tools and sell that module to companies for a
       | cheap subscription.
        
         | theseanz wrote:
         | > It was never used in real work
         | 
         | Does this mean I need to return all my paychecks from 2004 to
         | 2007?
        
         | hilbert42 wrote:
         | _" Would it be a complicated app? Yes. Would it require a lot
         | of programming? Yes. Would it immediately bring money? No. So
         | currently it's probably won't be a good idea to work on it."_
         | 
         | Consider that web browsers essentially do the reverse of HTML
         | editors such as Dreamweaver. Moreover, all current web browsers
         | do a much better job at rendering web pages from HTML than do
         | WYSIWYG editors do at turning text into HTML.
         | 
         | I don't think many appreciate how sophisticated web browsers
         | are these days. Now consider that browsers such as Firefox and
         | Chromium are open source, their code could be used to develop
         | HTML editors.
         | 
         | The question I keep asking is why aren't there a plethora of
         | HTML editors out there that harness the algorithms these
         | browsers already use for their own development.
         | 
         | As you suggest, producing a good HTML editor is very hard work,
         | if it weren't then there'd be many good editors out there but
         | there aren't. Take wordprocessors with a 'save as HTML' option
         | and one will find the code they produde ranges from almost
         | unusable to abominable.
         | 
         | Same goes for email editors that produce HTML-formatted emails.
         | For example, Thunderbird has about the worst HTML editor
         | around, it's brain-dead and full of bugs, and it's been like
         | that for decades. It's as if those at Mozilla are terrified to
         | touch it for fear that they'll kill it altogether.
         | 
         | Now keep in mind that Thunderbird actually uses the Firefox
         | engine so what's going on here? With Thunderbird is the browser
         | code completely divorced from its email editor?
         | 
         | OK, you may well say that's just how is it with Thunderbird,
         | the editor evolved separately to its rendering engine. I'll
         | then say take a good look at BlueGriffon which is quite an
         | excellent HTML editor based on Firefox (despite the fact that
         | it's awkward to use and hasn't been updated in ages). How come
         | its developer can produce good HTML whereas Thunderbird's
         | developers don't seem to have a clue?
         | 
         | Also, how relevant to this discussion is the fact that
         | BlueGriffon's development has ceased: http://bluegriffon.org/.
         | What's the actual reason for the developer ceasing development
         | (there's likely more than he's stating on his webpage)?
         | 
         | Right, perhaps somewhere in all that comment lies the path to
         | actual truth of the matter--that is, how difficult it is to
         | actually make a decent HTML editor?
         | 
         | I've been on the lookout for a good open-source HTML editor for
         | years and I've yet to see a decent discussion, analysis or
         | expose of the subject. Why not?
         | 
         | It's still impossible to sort out whether the demand for a
         | decent HTML editor just isn't there or whether it's a too
         | bigger project and not worth the effort.
         | 
         | I wish those who are truly in the know would put this matter to
         | rest. Many of us who don't wish to delve deep into web
         | browser/editor code would love some answers.
        
       | nightpool wrote:
       | I heard recently during the big government purge that a lot of
       | the actual mechanics of that purge functioned by revoking
       | people's Dreamweaver licenses, and that a lot of .gov websites
       | run on Dreamweaver. Probably the US government is singlehandedly
       | keeping Dreamweaver alive through large annual contracts for new
       | features. I don't have any concrete sources on this, it was just
       | Twitter gossip, but it makes a lot of sense to me--Dreamweaver
       | provides the ability for non-technical government employees to
       | edit the site, low system requirements for the servers, and
       | presumably enough Enterprise features to ensure template
       | homogeneity across an org as large as USG.
        
         | barbecue_sauce wrote:
         | Is it not included as part of the general Adobe subscriptions?
        
           | bdcravens wrote:
           | It is. https://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I had no idea that you could even still get a copy of Dreamweaver
       | anymore, but a quick search seems to confirm that, indeed, you
       | can still get it.
       | 
       | As a teenager I used to use a pirated copy of Dreamweaver, and it
       | was cool but I eventually just learned HTML since I found that
       | the stuff I wrote ended up being better than the stuff being
       | generated by Dreamweaver, and of course that had the advantage of
       | being legal and free. I'm sure that the HTML exporter has gotten
       | a lot better since 2005, but I have moved as far away from web
       | development as I could since then because web development is
       | terrible.
       | 
       | A small part of me wants to try the latest Dreamweaver now but I
       | don't have a Windows or Mac computer anymore.
        
         | ssag2 wrote:
         | Macromedia didn't mind the piracy at the time. People learned
         | from pirated versions and then went to work in companies that
         | bought licenses. They bootstrapped the company with that
         | tactic. Same with Flash.
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | Not trying to make the piracy seem "right" or anything, but I
           | would like to point out that I didn't make any money with the
           | pirated Macromedia software either. I made a couple cartoons
           | that got blammed on Newgrounds, did the examples in the
           | Animator's Survival Kit, and then decided I'm not smart
           | enough to be creative and did software instead.
        
         | hereonout2 wrote:
         | This is pretty much my experience too, back then I had a copy
         | of a 1000+ page book called HTML 4 The Complete Reference.
         | 
         | With that tome on my desk it honestly didn't take much work to
         | be able to do a better job than Dreamweaver using notepad and
         | writing HTML by hand.
         | 
         | I never got into the advanced Dreamweaver features, am sure I
         | remember loads of stuff around managing complete sites with it,
         | etc. But from a purely front end developers perspective it
         | always seemed superfluous.
        
       | elviejo wrote:
       | I like dreamweaver. But I could still code html by hand with
       | HotDogPro.
       | 
       | The one that I really miss is Macromedia Fireworks.
       | 
       | The perfect mix between vector editor + html editor + OOP.
       | 
       | And to think that it did all of that in the metadata of a binary
       | format (png).
       | 
       | Nothing has come close.
        
         | zackangelo wrote:
         | Allaire Homesite anyone?
         | 
         | It was a sad day for me when it got bought and integrated into
         | Dreamweaver.
        
           | tuzemec wrote:
           | Homesite was amazing. I consider it the first real text
           | editor that I've ever used. And I hated Macromedia for
           | killing it.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | If you hadn't post this comment, I would have.
         | 
         | Fireworks could have been Figma, it could have been the default
         | platform every designer used. But Adobe didn't understand it,
         | they saw it as a weird Photoshop competitor and shelved it.
         | 
         | The last few versions bundled with CS were clearly neglected
         | maintenance releases. I finally stopped using my slowing
         | rotting copy in about 2014 when I got a Mac with a retina
         | screen and fireworks was stuck with a terrible pixel doubled
         | ui. :-(
        
           | markdown wrote:
           | I held on until 2020. At some point I had to give up MacOS
           | updates to keep it going.
           | 
           | I still haven't found an acceptable replacement, choosing
           | instead to design in-browser with CSS. Of course this means I
           | can't make graphic heavy designs that I can slice and export
           | with transparent PNGs, but we haven't cycled back to that
           | sort of design yet so I'll be OK with minimalist crap for a
           | while.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | fireworks is still the best 2d graphics design system I've ever
         | used.
         | 
         | I used to make a non-insignificant amount of rasterised
         | computer "art" using fireworks, its discontinuance (and the
         | fact that photoshop was not at _all_ a replacement) killed that
         | for me.
        
       | gruntledfangler wrote:
       | Spry assets
        
       | graypegg wrote:
       | Around the same time, I was using Coda actually!
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20101007013748/http://panic.com/...
       | 
       | I had only used dreamweaver a small amount at highschool, but the
       | imac we had at home had a Coda license on it. While I don't think
       | I could comfortably use Dreamweaver to make something today, Coda
       | is possibly usable. Coda 2 since came out which I never tried,
       | and now it's a new editor called Nova, which I was using for a
       | short while but has strayed away from the style-focused Coda 1.x.
       | 
       | I would like to see that class of "make your own website" desktop
       | editors come back, that bridge the line between dreamweaver and
       | IntelliJ. Just a few core IDE features that make it not a pain to
       | use, and just a few GUI features to make designing easy.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | I always envied Coda users.
        
       | hereonout2 wrote:
       | Wow, I was taught Dreamweaver on a college course in the very
       | early 2000s but I have never really seen it used professionally.
       | 
       | In 20+ years of employment I think I came across one developer
       | who used it, and that was probably in 2005 or so!
       | 
       | Find it hard to imagine what kind of team would use it for
       | development today.
        
       | ssag2 wrote:
       | I still use it when I have to update my website.
        
       | snowwrestler wrote:
       | I had to read the question twice. Dreamweaver was the go-to in
       | _2010_? I think it was already well on its decline by then.
       | 
       | At a new job in 2003 one of my first tasks was to generate new
       | "heat map" code since the company was updating the background
       | image file for 50-state map interfaces. Dreamweaver had the best
       | interface for doing that work, so I got a copy and spent a couple
       | days carefully tracing the 50 state outlines (which Dreamweaver
       | turned into geometric shape code).
       | 
       | But even then, most of our sites were running on a database-
       | backed CMS. By 2010 we were building sites in Drupal, Wordpress,
       | and Joomla.
       | 
       | I knew folks still maintaining sites with Dreamweaver templates
       | at that time, but they were all legacy sites in academic and
       | government jobs. Most of those types of orgs at the time still
       | thought a website was something you built once and used for
       | decades, like a building.
        
         | lubujackson wrote:
         | Funny story, I'm a SWE and my wife used to work as a marketing
         | manager. Her boss wanted her to make something similar, a heat
         | map over a U.S. map. Except he wanted it to work in Excel. She
         | asked me about it and I told her I could code something like
         | that, but no way inside Excel...
         | 
         | Sure enough, she hacked on it for a while and was able to
         | actually build a functioning heat map in Excel. I have no idea
         | how it works. I've been a dev for 20+ years and that remains
         | one of the more voodoo tech things I've seen!
        
           | becquerel wrote:
           | Excel is not merely Turing-complete, but a step above, able
           | to achieve dark things best left unsaid.
        
           | anakaine wrote:
           | Set default zoom on the sheet to very small and map out
           | states by cells - treat them like pixels.
           | 
           | So much yuck.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | I did this back in the early/mid 1990's. I wrote a program
             | that could convert .gif files to Excel using the cells as
             | pixels. I converted a pic of a supermodel and sent the
             | excel file to my buddies. They were surprised to say the
             | least.
        
         | dasil003 wrote:
         | Yeah I used it at my first job in 2000 which was essentially a
         | webmaster job my local college. But 2001 we were already moving
         | away from it as we started to embed PHP here and there, and
         | eventually start building full-blown apps inline into the
         | website (replacing poorly integrated ColdFusion stuff developed
         | in isolation by some other department back in the 90s).
        
         | pentagrama wrote:
         | My first websites around 98 I landed on something more obscure
         | to build them I think, Net Objects Fusion. Later switched to
         | (Macromedia) Dreamweaver.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | That depends on how people remember "decline". Blackberry was
         | thought to be dead in 2009, 2 years after the iPhone, but that
         | year BB sold more devices than ever.
         | 
         | For a long time, "UI design" was done in Adobe Photoshop, so
         | using Adobe Dreamweaver to build out the final product and
         | upload to SFTP was a perfectly serviceable workflow. Back then,
         | websites were needed for a Google presence. Today you can have
         | a business through a Facebook page, or pay to advertise on
         | Google Maps or Yelp. Anything more complicated and you'd need a
         | full SaaS ecommerce platform, not something that only does
         | static HTML pages like DW.
        
       | rambambram wrote:
       | I think about Dreamweaver once a year, last time I used it was
       | around 2004, I guess. The WYSIWYG way of doing things was an eye
       | opener after using Notepad and manually typing tables from some
       | HTML book. I later switched to PHP, MySQL and CSS, but I miss
       | ActionScript sometimes. I made some cool browser games with it
       | and it sparked an interest for programming on top of designing
       | (try making a car steer correctly in a topdown view when math and
       | stuff is not your strongest point).
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Yes. I have to run it under Wine on Linux, but my paid-for
       | version of Dreamweaver 8 still works fine.
        
       | netol wrote:
       | My dad does. He prefers older versions though (and he switched
       | from FrontPage)
        
       | robotnikman wrote:
       | Dreamweaver, now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time, I
       | remember using it in highschool to build websites during a web
       | design class. I always thought it ended up being discontinued by
       | Adobe and replaced by various web frameworks, but maybe I'm
       | thinking of Microsoft Frontpage
        
       | fakebizprez wrote:
       | No, but I actually named my company's flagship software
       | "Laneweaver" (logistics industry) as an homage to what once was a
       | great product.
       | 
       | Adobe will probably read this and sue me.
        
       | ata_aman wrote:
       | Weird quirk I inherited from Dreamweaver: I used a
       | bootlegged/trial version in high school to learn coding and it
       | would close itself every few minutes so I would Ctrl+S every few
       | seconds to save my progress. I still do that to this day even
       | though all my Jetbrains IDEs auto-save. I think I still have my
       | webassist.com PHP extensions for Dreamweaver somewhere on my hard
       | drive from 2008.
        
       | dawnerd wrote:
       | I got my (professional) start with it but very quickly grew out
       | of it when I got a job working on real websites. But I do have
       | fond memories of its editor. To this day I'm still confused how
       | their built in scripts were supposed to work, especially their
       | auth flow.
       | 
       | My first real editor was Netscape Composer.
        
       | nemosaltat wrote:
       | I was using DreamWeaver in maybe 2006-2007. I hadn't thought
       | about it in a long while. Back then we were CRUD web apps with a
       | FileMaker backend and there was an integration where you could
       | drag database fields straight out of FMP7 into DreamWeaver and it
       | would automatically create the correct PHP (also 6 or 7 back
       | then) code for your form.
       | 
       | I coded up a simple CRUD in Streamlit yesterday (needed a simple
       | way for my Field guys to create professional looking PDF trip
       | reports) but it still took me longer than that workflow used to.
       | Our tooling really seems far behind where it ought to be. The
       | whole time I was writing it, I was thinking why did I stop using
       | PHP for stuff like this?
        
         | jval43 wrote:
         | Tools like FileMaker, Dreamweaver and others empowered regular
         | people to do "personal computing" and allowed them to help
         | themselves build the tools they needed.
         | 
         | It seems to me like that was a golden age of genuine personal
         | computing that went by too fast and with many avenues left
         | unexplored.
        
       | radley wrote:
       | I use it for FTP and (child) template editing for Wordpress
       | sites.
        
       | Jotalea wrote:
       | I started making a website on Dreamweaver back in 2020 when I was
       | just starting to learn programming. I think the website is still
       | up: http://acunia.com.ar/leon
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | Don't look at me, I'm still bummed that Navipress (which later
       | became AOLpress) didn't survive --- though a certain Tim Berners-
       | Lee did use it to write a book about the web:
       | 
       | https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Weaving/
       | 
       | Similarly, NVU and Amaya both went away --- is there anything up-
       | to-date which will do web design interactively?
        
       | nabaraz wrote:
       | Not dreamweaver, But I use Flash (Macromedia) on Windows and
       | Adobe on Mac frequently.
       | 
       | Call it muscle memory, I find it easier to cook a chart, shape
       | and basic resize/crop on Flash.
        
       | someothherguyy wrote:
       | I am still on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HoTMetaL
        
       | nwh5jg56df wrote:
       | Cursor is the new Dreamweaver
        
       | BinaryMachine wrote:
       | Not me, I wish I could take back my college $ on courses that
       | used extensive Dreamweaver and Flash. I guess we can't predict
       | the future.
        
       | graiz wrote:
       | What a strange post. Anyone using Frontpage or Mosaic?
        
       | wonger_ wrote:
       | I have a friend that's been using Dreamweaver for decades. He
       | still maintains a handful of client sites with it.
        
       | nepger21 wrote:
       | This brings back memory. Definitely a go-to at that time and
       | nothing better. A different era.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | The last time I used Dreamweaver was in 2009 when I was putting
       | together a site at a small business, my first job after college
       | in a recession-hit market.
       | 
       | These days I know HTML/CSS pretty well, but do still use a DW-
       | style tool to build simple websites without an IDE: Bootstrap
       | Studio[0]. with a customizable barebones Bootstrap grid system
       | under the hood. It's pretty powerful, GUI-based flexbox
       | positioning, custom code support, split code/design view, SFTP
       | upload built-in. I've used it to export an HTML design to flat
       | files, and edit them in an IDE to hook it up to CMS logic, so
       | there isn't any app lock-in or spaghetti code.
       | 
       | A new feature I really like is the "blog" function, where you can
       | assign a folder to be the "blog", and the app will build an index
       | page containing all those entries upon hitting "publish". The
       | final export is all static HTML and CSS, so it's a way to upload
       | to places like Amazon S3 and Neocities without the need for an
       | underlying server-side blog platform.
       | 
       | [0] https://bootstrapstudio.io/
        
       | bdhcuidbebe wrote:
       | I remember unmessing webpage layout from the dreamweaver
       | generated html by hand so it could be templated for the actual
       | website on my first job. Never again!
        
       | superfunny wrote:
       | Dreamweaver? Who remembers Drumbeat 2000?
        
         | fuzztester wrote:
         | I vaguely remember HoTMetaL Pro or something like that, by,
         | maybe, SoftQuad?
         | 
         | a sales guy in a company where I worked long back, was making a
         | quotation for it, or something like that.
         | 
         | update: i googled to check it:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftQuad_Software
         | 
         | james clark is mentioned there as one of their notable
         | employees.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer)
        
       | mentalpiracy wrote:
       | I remember feeling like a power user upgrading from Frontpage 98
       | to Dreamweaver and being able to hot swap between code and the
       | live view. Dreamweaver rolled a ton of then-groundbreaking
       | features into a great interface.
        
       | TECHBEAST2k wrote:
       | I actually still use DW when I want to convert a giant
       | spreadsheet into a table easily.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-22 23:01 UTC)