[HN Gopher] Richard Feynman's blackboard at the time of his deat...
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       Richard Feynman's blackboard at the time of his death (1988)
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 477 points
       Date   : 2025-02-21 18:22 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (digital.archives.caltech.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (digital.archives.caltech.edu)
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | "Know how to solve every problem that has been solved."
       | 
       | That seems a reasonable goal.
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | By who standard? It seems like an unsolvable problem to know
         | every problem that is actually been solved correctly...
        
           | cbracketdash wrote:
           | I think he's being sarcastic
        
             | bitshiftfaced wrote:
             | It doesn't strike me as likely that Feynman would have
             | written this with sarcasm behind it. Maybe someone knows
             | the details better. Personally, I think it looks more like
             | the sort of goal that you aim for even it's not literally
             | possible. "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll
             | land among the stars."
        
               | yunwal wrote:
               | dhosek was being sarcastic, not Feynman
        
               | danielmarkbruce wrote:
               | Neither of them were. The quote is saying "practice
               | solving problems on solved problems as much as you can"
               | and dhosek is saying "good idea".
        
           | turnsout wrote:
           | I read it with a different (epistemic) emphasis... I don't
           | need to know the solution if I know _how_ to solve it. I 've
           | never produced a chip before, but I know how the problem has
           | been solved by others. And therefore if I break it down, I
           | could solve it myself.
           | 
           | It's also possible that he meant every problem _in your
           | domain._ That would be slightly more reasonable, and
           | something I could agree with.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Feynman was a huge proponent of, whether he knew it or not,
         | compression being a form of modeling.
         | 
         | He thought everything settled about physics should be teachable
         | in the freshmen introductory series, and if he couldn't make it
         | fit that meant we didn't really understand it yet.
         | 
         | I personally like the idea of upper level classes being about
         | things we are still working out. That feels more like preparing
         | people for the real world, where your job is to figure stuff
         | out they couldn't teach you in class because you and your
         | coworkers are going to write the "book". Or at least make money
         | because not enough people have figured "it" out to make it
         | cheap.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | You can't reasonably keep compressing centuries of progress
           | into an intro series.
           | 
           | I think you are describing undergrad vs graduate, not intro
           | vs upper level, and even that is optimistic. Even tenured
           | professors are still learning new things about what is
           | already known to the world at large.
        
             | femto wrote:
             | > You can't reasonably keep compressing centuries of
             | progress into an intro series.
             | 
             | Reductionism can lead to simplification, which will take
             | less time to teach and learn.
             | 
             | Take planetary orbits as an example. There was a time when
             | people would have spent a lot of time learning about all
             | the complicated movements the planets make through the sky,
             | "spheres within spheres", retrograde movement and so on.
             | These days we teach Newton's laws of gravity and a
             | heliocentric model (both of general application). The
             | motion of the planets then pops out almost for "free".
        
             | iterance wrote:
             | Modern physics has actually done it quite well. This is
             | because the core of many physics concepts revolve around
             | general principles which can be taught directly or by
             | example. A modern undergraduate education in classical
             | mechanics teaches concepts around symmetry and energy that
             | generalize to other areas in physics (for instance, the
             | notion of a potential well giving rise to bound states
             | reappears several times in different problem domains). A
             | modern undergraduate optics education generalizes enough
             | that students should readily understand concepts like
             | evanescent waves and acousto-optical modulation.
             | 
             | It's only when one moves away from these principles to
             | something more subtle or less well-understood that the
             | education becomes hairier. But as these are further
             | characterized, compression again becomes possible. Landau &
             | Lifshitz, for example, attempts to do this at a graduate
             | level. Many concepts they discuss are increasingly
             | available to the advanced undergraduate due to better
             | compression and better physics principles / pedagogy.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | I suspect one can. This is because "progress" is pretty
             | much never in a straight line from New York to San
             | Francisco. It meanders all over the place, in circles,
             | around the horn a few times, bumping into Africa, until it
             | eventually blunders into San Francisco.
             | 
             | Today, we can go directly from New York to SF in a straight
             | line.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | _Eventually_ you can take the straight line, probably.
               | But the process needs time to contract the unnecessary
               | steps. There's still things we haven't completely
               | contracted, is my feeling.
               | 
               | Also, we shouldn't be so quick to throw away the original
               | process of discovery. If our goal is to make scientists
               | that can discover i think it'd be best to expose them to
               | some of the real discovering. Like, the way fermi-dirac
               | statistics is presented typically leaves out the rich
               | process of discovery and understanding that took place,
               | similarly with einsteins field equations. It leads young
               | students into the thought that the big names are great,
               | eldritch gods, completely incomprehensible in their
               | genius. It begins to feel like you could never ever have
               | made the discovery, because what you learned was not the
               | discovery, it was the sum of 70 years since. I felt a
               | great weight lift watching the sean carroll talk about
               | _how_ Einstein made his equations. He explained the logic
               | of each step, the assistance he needed to reach critical
               | points, and generally made it human. I believe it was an
               | RI talk. Then i remember some video about the process to
               | find FD statistics to resolve the ultraviolet catastrophe
               | and it was so enlightening. They aren't old gods, they're
               | people that worked for decades to reach completely
               | reasonable goals and we just don't teach it like that at
               | all. It's incredibly discouraging to new students to
               | never see that these people were mere mortals.
        
         | WorkerBee28474 wrote:
         | Sounds like Feynman would enjoy LeetCode.
        
       | Molitor5901 wrote:
       | Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! is one of my favorite books.
       | We lost him much too soon.
        
         | bookofjoe wrote:
         | I was a UCLA anesthesiology attending in the 1980s when Feynman
         | came to our OR for an abdominal procedure after having been
         | diagnosed with kidney cancer. I watched as he was wheeled down
         | the hall toward OR 9, our largest, reserved for major
         | complicated operations. As he was wheeled into the room, he
         | clasped his two hands above his head like a prizefighter.
        
           | simonswords82 wrote:
           | Seriously? That is so cool that you were there. Sad that we
           | lost him fairly young. Such a legend, I love his work.
        
         | sympil wrote:
         | I found this to be illuminating:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/TwKpj2ISQAc?si=O0qabLdBkmWq3jVX
        
         | gitremote wrote:
         | "the sham legacy of Richard Feynman" is about Feynman being
         | famous because of this book rather than because of his physics.
         | The YouTuber, an obsessed physicist who had spent months
         | reading all Feynman books, provides a critical analysis and
         | explains the cultural impact of "Surely You're Joking,
         | Mr.Feynman!"
         | 
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Autobiographies.
           | 
           | As Churchill said, "For my part, I consider that it will be
           | found much better by all parties to leave the past to
           | history, especially as I propose to write that history
           | myself."
        
             | torlok wrote:
             | Watch the video. Feynman didn't write a single book.
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | I shouldn't have to watch several hours of video to see
               | what the basis is for such an outlandish-sounding claim.
        
               | wk_end wrote:
               | That's fair - although it's a really great video!
               | 
               | The section about 45m in ("The Myth of Richard Feynman)
               | covers it in a hair under seven minutes.
               | 
               | She notices that in the preface to "What Do You Care What
               | Other People Think?", the author says that people have
               | the "mistaken idea" that "Surely You're Joking..." was an
               | autobiography. The preface, which was written from the
               | perspective of the author of the books, is attributed to
               | Ralph Leighton, who has a Wikipedia article about him. It
               | turns out that he wrote the books, years later, based on
               | stories Feynman told him at drumming circles. So it's not
               | exactly a secret, but also not exactly publicized -
               | Leighton's name is nowhere on the book jackets, for
               | instance.
               | 
               | The video goes onto explain that this is the case for
               | anything commonly attributed to him - The Feynman
               | Lectures, for instance, were transcribed/edited/turned
               | into books by Robert B. Leighton (Ralph's father) and
               | Matthew Sands.
               | 
               | She then cites the general "never wrote a book" claim as
               | directly coming from James Gleick's "Genius", which is a
               | well-regarded and fact-checked biography of Feynman.
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | I see. In a strict sense, yes, published books like
               | Surely You're Joking and its sequel, The Feynman
               | Lectures, QED, etc. weren't "written" by Feynman himself.
               | 
               | But the statement "never wrote a book", without a lot of
               | context (which might be in the video or Gleick's
               | biography, but wasn't in the post I responded to),
               | suggests that Feynman didn't _create the content_ that 's
               | in the books, but someone else did and Feynman took
               | credit for them. That is emphatically _not_ the case. All
               | of the _content_ of those books is Feynman 's. Leighton
               | took Feynman's content, delivered orally, and put it into
               | publishable book form. Certainly not a negligible task,
               | and he deserves credit for it, but it doesn't mean the
               | books aren't Feynman's content. They are. And nobody,
               | certainly not Leighton, ever said otherwise.
        
               | Xelynega wrote:
               | I don't think the problem people have is "Richard Feynman
               | didn't produce content"
               | 
               | It's "the content that people interacted with that they
               | formed an opinion on "Richard Feynman" from was actually
               | editorialized and published by other people"
               | 
               | They're not trying to take credit from Feynman, theyre
               | trying to divorce the character of "Feynman" as written
               | by these authors from the real historical person
        
             | lemonberry wrote:
             | "He lived, he died, the rest is anecdote"
        
           | dralley wrote:
           | Yeah, it's hard not to see some truth in what Murray Gell-
           | Mann said, which is that he spent as much time trying to come
           | up with stories about himself as he did working.
           | 
           | Also while breaking the rules might be fun, lockpicking desks
           | & sending coded messages out of Los Alamos "for fun" is maybe
           | not for the best.
        
             | wholinator2 wrote:
             | It wasn't for the worst either. Frankly i think it's
             | essential for people to have experience in some
             | mischeviety. Hacker mindset, etc, etc. I've joined a PhD
             | program recently and you can really tell who's never done
             | anything but study.
        
               | dralley wrote:
               | Yeah but most PhD programs aren't the Manhattan Project.
        
               | memhole wrote:
               | I would agree. I think at least in some fields a certain
               | cleverness is needed. Mathematics is all about being
               | clever and testing assumptions as an example.
        
               | Xelynega wrote:
               | You should read some of the more egregious stories that
               | have been published with his blessing.
               | 
               | It's not just "experience in mischeveity", it's "being a
               | general nuisance, then everyone clapped"
        
           | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
           | And his Nobel Prize, the highest acclamation by his peers
           | that exists. The people eager to tear him down seem to forget
           | that.
           | 
           | [EDIT] Oops, somehow this post appeared twice?
        
             | torlok wrote:
             | The video is a critical look at the legend of Richard
             | Feynman, not his work. You should watch it.
        
           | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
           | And his Nobel Prize, the highest possible acclamation by his
           | peers. The people eager to tear him down seem to overlook
           | that.
        
             | speff wrote:
             | One minute and thirty seconds into the video: "Amazing
             | Nobel Prize winning physicist"
        
             | Xelynega wrote:
             | Who is trying to "tear him down"?
             | 
             | All I see is people trying to point out the differences
             | between "Richard Feynman the character" and "Richard
             | Feynman the real person"
             | 
             | "Richard Feynman the character" would talk about how he
             | goes to parties and is able to befuddled people in their
             | native languages that he doesn't speak.
             | 
             | "Richard Feynman the person" was a nobel prize winning
             | physicist
             | 
             | Do his tall tales have to be true for his nobel prize to be
             | valid? Or can he be lying for his ego while still being a
             | good scientist?
        
           | vonneumannstan wrote:
           | It's easy to dunk on someone unable to defend themselves.
           | 
           | Some basic sanity checks: Personally recruited onto the
           | Manhattan Project by Oppenheimer in 1943. Feynman Diagrams,
           | fundamental to QM and became popular in the early 50s.
           | There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom lecture was given in
           | 1959. The Feynman Lectures on Physics were recorded at
           | Caltech between 1961-1964 and became famous throughout the
           | field shortly after. Nobel Prize for the development of
           | Quantum Electrodynamics shared with Schwinger and Tomonaga in
           | 1965 Richard Feynman: Fun to Imagine Collection came out in
           | 1983 Surely you must be joking Mr. Feynman released in 1985.
           | 
           | Any Physics Professor on earth would give both their legs to
           | have the career Feynman did before he was supposedly only
           | made relevant by his Biography.
        
             | archermarks wrote:
             | The video is not about Feynman's actual career. That's
             | actually the point -- the idea of Feynman people have in
             | their minds is totally divorced from the actual person and
             | his work.
        
               | vonneumannstan wrote:
               | Maybe true in the early 90s but I don't imagine really
               | anyone in the general public is familiar with him
               | anymore. Physicists know of him.
               | 
               | >is about Feynman being famous because of this book
               | rather than because of his physics.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | People still do very much know of him. My mother is the
               | person who introduced me to his book. I was showing some
               | interest in science in school when it was presented to me
               | though. Though he's probably waning from "household name"
               | status he's likely still widely known
        
               | Xelynega wrote:
               | A lot of the comments on this post are references to the
               | book "surely you're joking Mr Feynman", which was a
               | collection of stories(with a lot of embellishment) told
               | by Feynman.
               | 
               | That is the "sham legacy of Richard Feynman", the fact
               | that most people remember him for stories and not his
               | work
        
             | furyofantares wrote:
             | It's also easy to dunk on someone without watching their
             | content. You should probably watch the video if you want to
             | dunk on it. It does not dunk on his physics. It's extremely
             | thoroughly researched and it's about "the sham legacy of
             | Richard Feynman" which is specifically about the legacy of
             | anecdotes about his personality, and is different from the
             | actual physics legacy of Richard Feynman, and it is
             | extremely clear on this point.
        
               | vonneumannstan wrote:
               | I watched the video months ago and found it pandering and
               | boring.
        
               | sympil wrote:
               | Was it accurate or not? Who cares if the presentstion was
               | to your liking? The question is whether or not its claims
               | are accurate. You sound like the Feynman Bros she talks
               | about.
        
               | furyofantares wrote:
               | Frankly, I am extremely confident that you only watched a
               | little bit of it.
        
               | Xelynega wrote:
               | Pandering to whom?
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | It's not a critique of his work (although to be honest,
             | he's probably not in the top 10 physicists of the 20th
             | century). Rather, it's a critique of the mythbuilding that
             | seems to surround Feynman--and _only_ Feynman, you don 't
             | see this stuff around (say) Hawking or Einstein--that turn
             | him into the only physicist worth emulating.
             | 
             | As for your later contention that he's less visible to the
             | general public since the '90s, well, I had _Surely You 're
             | Joking_ as required school reading in the '00s, the
             | narrator of the video similarly remarks on it being
             | recommended reading for aspiring physicists in probably
             | near enough the same timeframe. Oh, and someone cared
             | enough to post a link today to his blackboard, and (as of
             | this writing) 58 other people cared to upvote it.
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | _> to be honest, he 's probably not in the top 10
               | physicists of the 20th century_
               | 
               | Who would you put in the top 10 ahead of him?
        
               | sho_hn wrote:
               | Let's see ... Planck, Einstein, Bohr, Pauli, Heisenberg,
               | Bohm, Dirac, Schroedinger, de Broglie, Ehrenfest?
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | I'd put Planck, Einstein, Bohr, Pauli, and Dirac ahead of
               | Feynman. I'm not so sure about the others; not that they
               | weren't world class physicists, but so was Feynman.
        
               | cyberax wrote:
               | Planck? His greatest achievements were a bit before the
               | 20-th century.
               | 
               | Feynman also became active in physics right at the end of
               | the heroic era. So he's disadvantaged by it.
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | If we're limiting to work actually done in the 20th
               | century, yes, I agree Planck might not qualify because of
               | the century boundary. And we also get to split hairs over
               | whether 1900, when Planck published his quantum
               | hypothesis, is in the 20th century or the 19th. :-)
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | Einstein for sure. For the rest: I'm not sure that
               | they're clearly _ahead_ of Feynman. I 'm not sure they're
               | behind, either. To me, they seem to kind of be in a
               | cluster.
        
               | pessimist wrote:
               | Apart from Einstein, Heisenberg, Dirac, Pauli, Bohr and
               | Fermi are clearly ahead in depth and breadth of
               | contribution. Post-war it's less clear, but IMO Steven
               | Weinberg and Murray Gell Mann are probably greater.
        
               | arcadi7 wrote:
               | Rutherford, planck , bohr jumpstarted the 20th century
               | physics .
        
               | gitremote wrote:
               | Without the 20th century restriction, she rants against
               | the list "Einstein. Newton. Feynman."
               | 
               | She says, "The list should be: Newton, Maxwell, Einstein.
               | The answer is Maxwell, if you're making this list, right?
               | James Clerk Maxwell, his complete theory of
               | electrodynamics, the best, most important thing to come
               | out of the 1800s in physics. It's Newton, Maxwell,
               | Einstein, okay? Like Feynman is great, but he's not up
               | _there_. But in popular culture he _is_ , because he's
               | famous for being a famous physicist instead of being
               | famous for his physics, which also, don't get me wrong,
               | he did a lot of really good physics. I just think it's
               | kind of weird."
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | I would agree that Maxwell belongs above Feynman if we're
               | talking about modern physicists and not limiting
               | ourselves to the 20th century.
               | 
               | What really amazes me is that Maxwell got as far as he
               | did with the incredibly clunky notation he was using. Our
               | modern notation, IIRC, is due to Heaviside, and was a
               | huge improvement.
        
               | jimbokun wrote:
               | > Rather, it's a critique of the mythbuilding that seems
               | to surround Feynman--and only Feynman, you don't see this
               | stuff around (say) Hawking or Einstein--that turn him
               | into the only physicist worth emulating.
               | 
               | He's the only one who left behind a model for how to go
               | about emulating him.
               | 
               | Hawking and Einstein left behind their work but nothing
               | I'm aware of teaching others how to do comparable work.
        
               | gitremote wrote:
               | _Surely You 're Joking, Mr. Feynman!_ is not about how to
               | do physics, and the book was ghostwritten, by a non-
               | physicist.
        
               | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
               | It's "ghostwritten" by the same measures interviews are.
               | There exist recordings of Feynman telling the stories to
               | Ralph Leighton.
        
               | gitremote wrote:
               | As the video points out, Feynman was telling tall tales
               | to impress a much younger man, Ralph Leighton. Ralph
               | Leighton decided to publish stories that told a specific
               | narrative, that being an asshole was cool, and he omitted
               | more wholesome stories about Feynman being supportive of
               | women.
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | _> you don 't see this stuff around (say) Hawking or
               | Einstein_
               | 
               | Yes, you do--it's just that the mythbuilding builds on
               | different aspects of their personalities.
               | 
               | Mythbuilding around Einstein made him out to be the
               | physics outsider who came in and revolutionized physics--
               | or, in the somewhat less outlandish (but still
               | outlandish) version, the kid who flunked all his physics
               | classes in school and then revolutionized physics.
               | Neither is anywhere near the truth. Einstein was an
               | expert in the physics he ended up overthrowing. The
               | reason he did badly in school was that school was not
               | teaching the actual cutting edge physics that Einstein
               | was interested in--and was finding out about from other
               | sources, pursued on his own. And even then, he didn't
               | flunk out of school; when he published his landmark 1905
               | papers, he was about to be awarded his doctorate in
               | physics, and it wasn't too long after that that he left
               | the patent office and became a professional academic.
               | 
               | Mythbuilding around Hawking made him out to be the genius
               | who, despite his severe physical disability, could see
               | through all the complexities and find the simple answers
               | to fundamental questions that will lead us to a theory of
               | everything and the end of physics. (This mythmaking, btw,
               | was not infrequently purveyed by Hawking himself.) That
               | story conveniently forgets the fact that _none of those
               | simple answers he gave have any experimental
               | confirmation, and aren 't likely to get any any time
               | soon_. He did propose some groundbreaking ideas, but none
               | of them are about things we actually observe, or have any
               | hope of observing in the foreseeable future. And the
               | biggest breakthrough idea he's associated with, black
               | hole entropy and black hole thermodynamics, arguably
               | wasn't his, it was Bekenstein's; Hawking initially
               | rejected Bekenstein's arguments for black hole entropy.
        
               | margalabargala wrote:
               | > The reason he did badly in school
               | 
               | The myth is not "Einstein did badly in school, but for
               | that reason not this one". "Einstein did badly in school"
               | is a myth, period. Einstein excelled in school.
               | 
               | https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/14/science/einstein-
               | revealed...
        
               | hotdogscout wrote:
               | That user is talking about university, not grade school.
               | 
               | It's undisputable he did badly in university and could
               | not hold himself in academia because of this metric.
               | 
               | https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-
               | news/news/2021/07/fro...
        
               | pdonis wrote:
               | _> Einstein excelled in school._
               | 
               | hotdogscout correctly clarified that I meant university,
               | not grade school. Sorry for the ambiguity on my part.
        
               | vonneumannstan wrote:
               | Sounds like you went to a pretty unusual school? It
               | definitely wasn't on my reading list during a similar
               | time period. But it seems like your doing a lot of
               | selection bias here. People interested in become
               | Physicists inevitably hear about him and the sample of
               | people active on HN is wildly different from the general
               | public.
        
               | DiogenesKynikos wrote:
               | He developed quantum electrodynamics, the first fully
               | fleshed-out quantum field theory. In the process, the
               | invented the action formulation of quantum field theory,
               | which is absolutely fundamental to the modern
               | understanding of the subject, and he invented the method
               | of solving path integrals perturbatively that everyone
               | has used since (Feynman diagrams).
               | 
               | That easily puts him among the top 10 physicists of the
               | 20th Century.
               | 
               | Beyond his research contributions, he was a highly
               | innovative und unorthodox teacher, and an utterly
               | captivating raconteur. He had a highly unusual
               | combination of skills and personality traits. That's why
               | he's so famous.
        
             | Sincere6066 wrote:
             | You should try actually watching the video before writing a
             | manifesto.
        
             | NotAnOtter wrote:
             | He is known for being a bad ass scientists and super slick
             | with the ladies.
             | 
             | Many decades later we say more accurately, he was a bad ass
             | scientist who either sexually harassed or straight up raped
             | most of his female mentees and was generally kinda racist
             | (I mean, so was everyone back then. Still tho) and a
             | general asshole.
             | 
             | I mean I don't really think there is any point in declaring
             | _anyone_ the best scientist ever. But he 's firmly in
             | whatever the top tier is when only considering scientific
             | contributions.
        
             | roadbuster wrote:
             | You can add to the list, "Putnam Fellow." And, not only was
             | he a fellow, he apparently trounced the scores of the other
             | 4 fellows:                   "Anyway, I was among the first
             | five. I have since found out from           somebody from
             | Canada, where it was scored, who was in the scoring
             | division--he came to me much later and he told me that it
             | was           astonishing. He said that at this
             | examination, 'Not only were you           one of the five,
             | but the gap between you and the other four was
             | sensational.' He told me that. I didn't know that. That may
             | not           be correct, but that's what I heard."
             | 
             | https://www.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-
             | library/oral...
             | 
             | Feynman's grasp of mathematics was astounding
        
             | krferriter wrote:
             | To be clear that YouTube video is not really a critique of
             | Richard Feynman, especially not his scientific career, it's
             | a critique of people who knew him writing books and making
             | content using his name and making money off it as if it
             | came directly from him. It also critiques some of his
             | behavior around interactions with students or telling what
             | amounts to tall tales or standup comedy jokes and then
             | other people taking it as gospel. Richard Feynman did not
             | write the book "Surely you're joking, Mr Feynman". And some
             | of the content in that book seems like it may greatly
             | exaggerated or even be completely fabricated. And Feynman
             | was not alive to see much of what was published in his name
             | or using his name.
        
               | pkoird wrote:
               | Without having watched the videos, to say that people
               | made content using his name and made money off of it
               | without Feynman knowing is disingenuous. Ralph Leighton
               | recorded the conversations as Feynman was struggling with
               | cancer. There are even portions of those recordings out
               | in the web [1]. Feynman was fully aware of the books
               | because there was apparently a scandal where Murray Gell-
               | mann threatened to sue Feynamn and Leighton because of
               | some mischaracterization. Feynman was apparently hurt and
               | issued a correction in the subsequent version of the book
               | [2]. So it seems that he was FULLY AWARE and actively
               | endorsed the book.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.amazon.com/Feynman-Tapes-Research-
               | Chemist-storie... [2] https://feynman.com/stories/al-
               | seckel-on-feynman/
        
               | gitremote wrote:
               | You should watch the video. People who are not Ralph
               | Leighton published books about Feynman posthumously
               | without his knowledge and made money off of it.
        
               | pkoird wrote:
               | Many people write books on interesting subjects
               | posthumously (biographies come to mind). I believe it
               | would be up to the descendants of Feynman to sue if due
               | legal etiquettes were not maintained. Having said that,
               | all famous Feynman books like the Feynman lectures,
               | Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman, Please of finding
               | things out, etc are edited pieces of Feynman's recorded
               | audio, no doubt about that.
               | 
               | Honestly, my problem with the video in question is that
               | its tone unjustly attempts to denigrate Feynman (starting
               | with the clickbaity title itself, a _sham_ legacy?
               | really?) by trying to frame the narrative that his
               | supposed works were not his to begin with. The comments
               | in that video validate this sentiment to the point that
               | people joke about him not existing at all? If this is the
               | central takeaway of the video then I 'm honestly glad
               | that I didn't waste precisious few hours of my life on
               | such misleading content. Feel free to correct me though.
               | 
               | To me, Feynman is iconic because of the way he
               | communicates. Of course, there is a disjunction between
               | the man and his ideas and I'm not unwilling to believe
               | that he had some flaws.
        
               | Xelynega wrote:
               | I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
               | 
               | "Surely you're joking Mr Feynman" was not written my
               | Feynman and contained obviously fabricated stories. The
               | fact that he was aware of this is more a point against
               | his character than for it, no?(And says nothing of his
               | scientific prowess)
        
           | furyofantares wrote:
           | Wow. This is very, very good. Thanks.
           | 
           | I LOVE the videos of how Feynman talks about physics and have
           | read and loved many of the books she talked about. But really
           | this whole video is, I think, spot on about them.
        
           | Dig1t wrote:
           | I watched this video and honestly did not find any of her
           | points very compelling.
           | 
           | Her best point is basically her own subjective opinion that
           | Feynman does not belong amongst the greatest physicists of
           | all time like Newton and Einstein. And like yeah I guess
           | that's sort of true. But most of the video is just stating
           | that Feynman's fans are weird. Feynman is super popular
           | because he made very impressive contributions to science AND
           | he was charismatic and inspiring. It's the combination of
           | both and she mostly ignores that.
           | 
           | Like the thing about brushing teeth and seeing things from a
           | different point of view. She completely missed the entire
           | point of why people think his point of view is interesting on
           | it. Basically he's just saying in a video that most people
           | brush their teeth every morning, and if you view all the
           | humans doing this from a higher vantage point, like from
           | space, you see this line creeping across the earth and most
           | of the people right on that line are engaged in the same
           | ritual. It's interesting to think about this one phenomenon
           | from the perspective of individual humans and also from
           | someone watching from space. She doesn't provide a reason why
           | this is dumb she just basically says it's dumb and moves on
           | to the next point. It kind of feels like she either didn't
           | think about it enough or is just being disingenuous.
           | 
           | In any case I've found Feynman's work and life to be
           | inspiring since I was a teenager. He's inspired many people
           | to go into physics and other sciences, which she herself
           | states in the video, but somehow she makes that out to be a
           | bad thing by implying the Feynman fans are weird, calling
           | them "Feynman Bros".
        
             | speff wrote:
             | Frankly I'm having trouble believing you watched the video
             | if you make the assertion:
             | 
             | > He's inspired many people to go into physics and other
             | sciences, which she herself states in the video, but
             | somehow she makes that out to be a bad thing by implying
             | the Feynman fans are weird, calling them "Feynman Bros".
             | 
             | There were multiple points in the presentation on her
             | experience with Feynman fans and why they deserved the Bros
             | title.
             | 
             | * Having an unearned superiority complex while having
             | misogynistic beliefs (6:50->8:23) - followed by examples of
             | personal experiences by the video creator
             | 
             | * Making up stories about him (1:42:XX->1:44:XX)
             | 
             | * Thinking that negging is cool? I realize I already said
             | misogynistic beliefs, but feel like this should be re-
             | iterated (24:20->25:50). The example given about the
             | Feynman and the waitress was particularly rage-inducing to
             | me. I'm picturing my mother or wife in that scenario and
             | some jackass doing that to them.
             | 
             | > Like the thing about brushing teeth and seeing things
             | from a different point of view. She completely missed the
             | entire point of why people think his point of view is
             | interesting on it. Basically he's just saying in a video
             | that most people brush their teeth every morning, and if
             | you view all the humans doing this from a higher vantage
             | point, like from space, you see this line creeping across
             | the earth and most of the people right on that line are
             | engaged in the same ritual. It's interesting to think about
             | this one phenomenon from the perspective of individual
             | humans and also from someone watching from space. She
             | doesn't provide a reason why this is dumb she just
             | basically says it's dumb and moves on to the next point. It
             | kind of feels like she either didn't think about it enough
             | or is just being disingenuous.
             | 
             | This is a mischaracterization of this section of the video.
             | 37:33-> 39:45 for anyone else who wants to make their own
             | judgement. The point was that people watch the clip of
             | Feynman and come out with the wrong/harmful conclusions.
        
               | fromMars wrote:
               | Did you read the book? Some of those are distortions.
               | 
               | Regarding the negging incident, she left out important
               | context in her summary of this part of the book.
               | 
               | Feynman went to a bar where it was clear that some of the
               | women at that bar were intending to use men to get free
               | drinks and food. In the incident he described, a woman
               | asked him to buy three sandwiches and a drink at a diner
               | and then says she has to run to go meet up with a
               | lieutenant (taking the sandwiches with her). His negging,
               | was to ask for her to pay for the sandwiches if she had
               | no intention of staying and eating with him. Basically,
               | not being a pushover.
               | 
               | Secondly, he states right after that in the book, "But no
               | matter how effective the lesson was, I never really used
               | it after that. I didn't enjoy doing that."
               | 
               | I also think the incident about lying about whether he
               | was a student while at Cornell was exaggerated. Feynman
               | was 26 at the time and his wife had just died. In the
               | anecdote about the dance, he mentions that some girls
               | asked him if he was a student, and after getting rejected
               | by others at the dance, he says "I don't want to say" and
               | two girls go with him back to his place. But later he
               | confesses, "I didn't want the situation to get so
               | distorted and misunderstood, so I let them know I was a
               | professor".
               | 
               | Overall, I don't find strong evidence of the claims that
               | he was a misogynist or abusive to women in the book
               | outside of his frequenting of a strip club, which may be
               | enough for some people, but, I think people don't realize
               | how different people's attitudes were to things like
               | nudity and sex in the 70s and early 80s before AIDs was a
               | thing.
        
               | speff wrote:
               | I hadn't read the book fully, but I did coincidentally
               | read that chapter a long time ago. Given the context you
               | provide, I agree that he does not seem to be worse than
               | anyone else given the time period. The problem is when
               | people read about him and try to adopt mid-1900s values
               | in the 2000s - and that's really what the video above
               | about his legacy is about.
               | 
               | (also I'm fairly pro people-visiting-the-strip-club even
               | though I've never been)
        
               | gitremote wrote:
               | It's misogynistic, because the ghost writer of _Surely
               | You 're Joking Mr. Feyman!_, Ralph Leighton, ultimately
               | put into print narratives that encouraged men to see
               | "ordinary" women as "worthless bitches". In the character
               | of "Feynman":
               | 
               |  _Well, someone only has to give me the principle, and I
               | get the idea. All during the next day I built up my
               | psychology differently: I adopted the attitude that those
               | bar girls are all bitches, that they aren 't worth
               | anything, and all they're in there for is to get you to
               | buy them a drink, and they're not going to give you a
               | goddamn thing; I'm not going to be a gentleman to such
               | worthless bitches, and so on. I learned it till it was
               | automatic._
               | 
               | ...
               | 
               |  _On the way to the bar I was working up nerve to try the
               | master 's lesson on an ordinary girl. After all, you
               | don't feel so bad disrespecting a bar girl who's trying
               | to get you to buy her drinks but a nice, ordinary,
               | Southern girl?_
               | 
               |  _We went into the bar, and before I sat down, I said,
               | "Listen, before I buy you a drink, I want to know one
               | thing: Will you sleep with me tonight?"_
               | 
               |  _" Yes."_
               | 
               |  _So it worked even with an ordinary girl!_
               | 
               | The story about direct consensual sex with one "ordinary
               | girl" doesn't validate that men should have misogynist
               | attitudes towards ordinary women. It's just confirmation
               | bias. It matters, because training your mind to be
               | misogynist until it's automatic would spill over into
               | other aspects of your life, like how you treat female
               | coworkers.
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | The person talking in the video lost me, when she criticized
           | pupils asking about air resistance. Basically that was me,
           | literally, without having known anything about Feynman. I
           | simply asked, because I was interested in how one would
           | calculate that, rather than the boring "use formula from
           | book, plug in values, get result". I wanted to know more. Not
           | because I wanted to "seem smart because I know air exists".
           | That's such very silly take. And in fact there were many
           | people, who would not have even thought about air possibly
           | having an effect on a falling object. Basically she is raving
           | on against curious students. Maybe she is herself not so
           | curious and cannot stand it. Who knows.
        
             | tovej wrote:
             | She's a phd in physics, I think we can safely say that she
             | has a curious mind.
        
           | FredPret wrote:
           | Someone making a 2h 48 min rant about how a dead, great
           | physicist was "not that great" is oddly the opposite of
           | convincing
        
             | sympil wrote:
             | That is not all want the video is about.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | That YouTuber seems quite bitter, making videos complaining
           | about famous scientists and complaining about people lke
           | Worlfram and Musk who studied physics in school and then
           | became successful in business -- not for being bad
           | businessman or bad people (which some of them may well be),
           | but because she's offended that they say they love physics
           | even though she thinks they don't deserve to.
        
             | Xelynega wrote:
             | Elon Musk has a bachelor in science and business, I feel
             | like a PhD scientists is allowed to complain about the
             | media going to Elon Musk for science views rather than
             | scientists
        
           | __s wrote:
           | Overall seems good, but I find it interesting she says it
           | teaches to always be the smartest person in the room when the
           | book often reflected Feynman as being somewhat simple, going
           | on about reliance on mental tricks in comparison to his
           | colleagues who he felt were much more talented. Or instances
           | where he found himself out of his depth & got lucky
           | _(pointing at some random thing on a diagram to figure out
           | what it is without asking, happens to get people he 's with
           | to rubber duck debug an actual problem)_. Which may support
           | her observation of Feynman bros who might find this relatable
           | 
           | This all comes back to the observation I've made working with
           | competent people, which is that we're all stuck trying to
           | solve problems with the computational power of a slab of meat
           | 
           |  _(she later goes on to address this modesty as being
           | underhanded)_
           | 
           |  _(continued watching, two hours in now, this is great work)_
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | How much of that book do you think is the literal truth and how
         | much do you think was embellished? When I read it my impression
         | is that Feynmann is the kind of storyteller that doesn't let
         | the boring real life details get in the way of a good story.
         | Some of it is completely believable, like the general telling
         | people to never have their safes open when he is around, but
         | others came across as a bit fanciful to me, especially when he
         | started talking about women. I'm guessing every story has at
         | least a grain of truth in it, but I would like to hear
         | perspectives from the other people in the stories.
        
           | mkagenius wrote:
           | Murray Gelman used to hate him.
           | 
           | Freeman Dyson loved him.
           | 
           | (Both nobel prize winners)
        
             | vonneumannstan wrote:
             | Dyson has won nearly every award other than the Nobel.
        
           | Xelynega wrote:
           | > When I read it my impression is that Feynmann is the kind
           | of storyteller that doesn't let the boring real life details
           | get in the way of a good story.
           | 
           | Is this not an undesirable trait in non fiction stories?
        
         | Sincere6066 wrote:
         | It makes me so sad to read opinions like this.
        
           | jmcgough wrote:
           | Recently started to read his book, and was shocked at how
           | much my interpretation of Feynman seems to differ from the
           | frequent praises. Smart and a gifted science communicator,
           | but even these embellished stories told in the most
           | flattering light, he comes across as an egotistical jerk and
           | misogynist. How many female physics majors changed studies
           | after enduring his extremely creepy behavior?
           | 
           | I hope that people who read this book in the future are able
           | to recognize some of his truly toxic traits, and not think
           | that being a jerk is part of his genius like the Steve Jobs
           | mythos.
        
             | speff wrote:
             | Reminds me of this quote by Stephen Gould
             | 
             | > I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and
             | convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty
             | that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton
             | fields and sweatshops
             | 
             | How many women or other discriminated-against people didn't
             | have the chance to make a difference in the world because
             | of attitudes of people like Feynman?
        
             | DiogenesKynikos wrote:
             | Most of these complaints about Feynman come down to one
             | story he told. People who come away thinking Feynman is a
             | misogynist generally miss the point of the story. Feynman
             | talks about how when he was young, an older friend told him
             | he could pick up women by being a jerk. He tried it, and it
             | worked, but he felt bad about himself afterwards and
             | decided not to do it any more.
             | 
             | Some people look at that story and say, "Look at what a
             | jerk Feynman was to the lady in the story!" And then they
             | completely ignore the part where Feynman says that even
             | though the method was effective, he didn't feel right using
             | it.
        
         | CSMastermind wrote:
         | I hate how his books have been censored after his death. Always
         | try to find first editions.
        
           | Xelynega wrote:
           | What has been censored in them?
        
             | CSMastermind wrote:
             | Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman? is the most heavily
             | edited.
             | 
             | Gell-Mann famously threatened to sue Feynman if he didn't
             | alter his book which he did in later printings.
             | 
             | The parts of the Cargo Cult Science chapter that referenced
             | specific scammers were removed out of fear of a defamation
             | lawsuit.
             | 
             | The Perfectly Reasonable Deviations from the Beaten Path
             | chapter in which he discusses picking up women at bars was
             | removed after the first edition.
             | 
             | All of Surely You're Joking received a pass to change the
             | language of the book in order to "remove sexist and
             | misogynistic language".
             | 
             | What Do You Care What Other People Think? was also altered
             | to remove his descriptions of his first wife and broadly
             | the language of the book was also updated.
        
       | sigmoid10 wrote:
       | Richard Feynman having the quantum Hall effect on his "to learn"
       | list is amazing. I mean, it makes sense, because less than three
       | years before he died the Nobel Prize in physics was awarded for
       | its discovery. But it shows that even one of the greatest
       | physicists of his generation had not fully grasped something that
       | is now part of every undergraduate physics degree's standard
       | curriculum and is arguably much less complicated than, say,
       | Feynman's contributions to Quantum Electrodynamics.
        
         | mkagenius wrote:
         | Being part of a course doesn't mean the students get enough
         | time to delve as deep or have as deep an understanding of the
         | phenomenon though.
        
           | ddtaylor wrote:
           | I agree. Someone might be able to understand and reproduce
           | some basic components of the system in the same way I use
           | mathematics effectively, but to say I have an understanding
           | of the fundamentals at any level like Wolfram does.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | Yeah, imagine if the undergrads had to write out the
           | underlying proof. When I took physics classes the professors
           | would do things for our exams like assume gravity is 10 ms to
           | give people an easier time with the numbers, and of course
           | the spherical frictionless cow.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | I especially liked the pointless masses.
        
         | gmueckl wrote:
         | Even the greatest of us are only human.
         | 
         | Also, the way many discoveries are explained in a course is
         | usually very streamlined compared to the papers that present
         | them initially and defend them in detail on a limited number of
         | pages.
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | Watching the most brilliant professors struggle to convert a
         | word doc to PDF highlights that exact same phenomenon.
        
           | spoonfeeder006 wrote:
           | My CS professor in grad school was once struggling to set up
           | a classic analog overhead projector, so I taunted him about
           | it: "sooo, you can debug 1M lines of C code, but you
           | can't...."
        
         | painted-now wrote:
         | I think there is some huge difference between learning some
         | bleeding edge ideas vs stuff that -for years - has been
         | repackaged, processed, and optimized for being taught and for
         | making exams out of it.
        
           | sigmoid10 wrote:
           | The thing is, most of Feynman's work (in particular the stuff
           | he received the Nobel prize for) has not really made it into
           | undergraduate courses, despite being decades older and going
           | through a lot more repackaging and processing. But the
           | quantum hall effect is so simple by comparison that it is
           | taught in early QM courses. So the key takeaway here is that
           | there were still pretty low hanging fruits in physics two
           | decades after Feynman won the Nobel.
        
         | spoonfeeder006 wrote:
         | Maybe has more to do with volume of information rather than it
         | being especially difficult for him? Could be that was his
         | week's todo list
        
       | leonewton253 wrote:
       | "What I cannot create, I do not understand."
       | 
       | "Know how to solve every problem that has been solved."
        
       | bitshiftfaced wrote:
       | Does anyone know if this was his personal blackboard? For
       | example, would've his students seen this blackboard?
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | His motto "What I cannot create, I do not understand" has been
       | one of the driving forces in my own quest to understand more
       | about the world around me. A good friend had picked up a
       | corollary which was "What I cannot teach, I do not understand"
       | which I think was quite similar. Definitely one of my heroes.
        
         | gregschlom wrote:
         | > "What I cannot teach, I do not understand"
         | 
         | And the corollary to that, from 17th century French writer
         | Nicolas Boileau: "Ce que l'on concoit bien s'enonce clairement,
         | et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisement." - What we
         | understand well, we express clearly, and words to describe it
         | flow easily.
        
           | fouronnes3 wrote:
           | I'm french and I have a great memory about that quote. In
           | high school my litterature and physics teachers had a
           | disagreement about it, although I believe they didn't know
           | about each other's point of views. Only us the students did,
           | as they each hand waved great insights about the world with
           | this quote. One was arguing, much like you, about the
           | profound truth there is to it. The other was quick to explain
           | that they perfectly conceived how to ride a bicycle, but like
           | most of us couldn't possibly teach it at a blackboard. I
           | leave it to you to guess which was which :)
        
             | jonahx wrote:
             | Literature professor = bike argument?
             | 
             | That's were I put my money, but I could see it going either
             | way.
             | 
             | This can devolve into a definitional argument, but I
             | actually think it's fair to say we _don 't_ understand how
             | we ride a bike. We have many abilities and fluencies we
             | don't understand, or only partially understand, in the
             | sense that we can't break them down into pieces easily and
             | transmit the information. That perspective feels more
             | accurate to me than saying I understand how I ride a bike
             | because I can ride a bike, though in common usage the
             | phrase "I understand how to ride a bike" would be perfectly
             | acceptable.
             | 
             | The subtle distinction between the phrase "knows how to"
             | and "understands" hints at the difference here.
        
               | gsf_emergency_2 wrote:
               | Looks like here's an opportunity for a language to
               | express the riding of bikes
               | 
               | Headstart (modelling the non-riding of bikes): http://rui
               | na.tam.cornell.edu/research/topics/bicycle_mechani...
        
               | somat wrote:
               | We(by which I mean a person who knows how to ride a bike)
               | do understand how to ride a bike. The problem in
               | communicating that is a riding a bike is a skilled act.
               | that is you cant get good at riding a bike by reading
               | about it, and it is very hard to describe a well trained
               | skill, it boils down to "practice a lot" which makes
               | nobody happy.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | One of the reasons you can't get good at riding a bike by
               | reading about it is that we literally don't understand
               | the mechanics of bike riding. It's a currently unsolved
               | problem in physics. Google it if you do t believe me!
               | 
               | So I get what you're saying, but it is maybe not the
               | optimal example.
        
               | rcxdude wrote:
               | It's not unsolved per se, just a complex topic that
               | resists simple explanations. (see also: what causes lift
               | in an airfoil)
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Sibling comment to yours points to a relatively recent
               | (this century) article with a mostly complete theoretical
               | model for bike self-stability. There are other theories
               | though, some more or less developed than others. It turns
               | out to be a fiendishly hard control-theory problem, and
               | at least one aspect is chaotic. Which theory is correct
               | has not, to my knowledge, been definitively determined by
               | experiment. Until it is, I think it is fair to say that
               | it is unsolved.
               | 
               | Unlike lift, which is very well understood but often
               | poorly explained.
        
               | Syonyk wrote:
               | > _(see also: what causes lift in an airfoil)_
               | 
               | That's easy! It pushes air down, and the reaction force
               | is what we call lift!
               | 
               | ... now, _why_ it pushes air down... there be many
               | computational fluid dynamics PhDs... though  "angle of
               | attack" covers a lot, and the rest is just efficiency
               | tweaks.
               | 
               | Good question for teachers who insist it's the Bernoulli
               | Principle: "But my paper airplane has flat wings and
               | flies just fine!" _toss across classroom_
        
               | hattar wrote:
               | https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2007.
               | 185...
        
               | gsf_emergency_2 wrote:
               | MATLAB Code from the authors:
               | 
               | (There's no rider however)
               | 
               | http://ruina.tam.cornell.edu/research/topics/bicycle_mech
               | ani...
        
               | jorvi wrote:
               | > This conservative non-holonomic system has a seven-
               | dimensional accessible configuration space and three
               | velocity degrees of freedom parametrized by rates of
               | frame lean, steer angle and rear wheel rotation.
               | 
               | I always adore the split between how my brain does things
               | instinctually, but making it arbitrary completely
               | demolishes the 'natural' flow of it. Same with complex
               | ball throwing / bouncing trajectory calculations.
               | 
               | It also immediately makes me angry about how we teach
               | math. When you learn about powers (squares, cubes, roots,
               | etc), these things are just written out as arbitrary
               | concepts instead of displaying them geometrically.
               | 
               | Hell, when I was first taught the Pythagorean theorem, it
               | was just explained by drawing a triangle with A2 + B2 =
               | C2, without also drawing out the related squares of each
               | side. Immediately doing that would instill so much more
               | intuition into the math. In general, mathematical
               | concepts gain so much clarity by doing them
               | geometrically.
        
               | necovek wrote:
               | Sounds like a problem with your early math tutors:
               | especially with geometry, all the examples you bring up
               | have been taught with "what it means".
               | 
               | I mean, squares and cubes are just multiplication by the
               | same factor: I distinctly remember even trapezoid
               | surfaces, pyramid volumes being demonstrated by chopping
               | and piecing parts together.
        
               | transcriptase wrote:
               | Even if we could perfectly and accurately explain the
               | mechanics and mathematical representations of riding a
               | bike, it would still be useless knowledge even to the few
               | people capable of understanding it in terms of utility in
               | riding one.
        
             | gosub100 wrote:
             | That's a great rebuttal. But if the actual claim is "I
             | cannot teach..." It is still consistent. No one is claiming
             | to teach you how to ride a bike or be in a relationship or
             | know when to leave a party. "I cannot teach what I cannot
             | understand" is not the inverse: "I can teach everything I
             | understand".
        
             | stahorn wrote:
             | I took up social dancing in my 20s, including salsa and
             | Argentinian tango. I think that it is a very good way to
             | experience the difference between being very good at
             | something and being able to teach.
             | 
             | I've been on courses with some people that are clearly
             | exceptionally good at dancing but are a bit lacking when it
             | comes to teaching. Then I've had the pleasure of having
             | teachers that, while still very good at dancing, would not
             | win the high level competitions. When it comes to teaching
             | though, they are just wonderful to be around. They are
             | exceptionally good at spotting what you are doing wrong and
             | giving you an explanation of how to fix it. Not only that,
             | but they make you feel good about learning.
             | 
             | One concrete memory I have is from a cuban salsa dancer
             | trying to teach me, a poor northern European, how to move
             | like a cuban. His frustration was very noticeable and not
             | making it easier for me! Then an example of the other type
             | of teach, is the crazy Australian tango dancer that not
             | only had fantastically fun and simple workshops, but also
             | spotted and explained simple fixes. When I was struggling
             | with a move, he told me to rotate my foot, which I did, and
             | I stopped struggling. When us attendees in the class talked
             | about some high level move being complicated, he said that
             | it is not at all complicated, and showed us how it's
             | simpler than it appears.
        
               | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
               | All my best teachers were trained as teachers, and
               | weren't necessarily content experts.
               | 
               | One of the worst teachers I ever had, was a genius Calc
               | II teacher, who was an abusive asshole, and would
               | humiliate students for asking questions he deemed as
               | "stupid."
               | 
               | Since a significant part of my learning, is asking
               | "stupid" questions, this did not go well for me, and I
               | took an Incomplete. I had a 4.0, to that point.
               | 
               |  _> "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask."_
               | 
               | From a poster in one of my tech school classrooms.
        
               | tomthe wrote:
               | It is not sufficient to understand the content very well,
               | you also have to understand the state of the mind of your
               | pupils very well.
        
               | fma wrote:
               | If you consider professional sports as an example, the
               | best coaches were not the best players and vice versa.
               | The saying "Those who can't do, teach" is such a shallow
               | representation of reality perpetuated by those who can do
               | neither.
        
               | yarekt wrote:
               | Great insight, it actually aligns with the conversation
               | above: Yes, teaching is its own skill regardless of the
               | subject matter, but to teach you really have to
               | understand the subject matter really well, and isn't at
               | all related to "doing it well" in some cases.
               | 
               | For example, in film, being a great director requires a
               | deep insight about acting, so they can explain what's
               | needed from a performance to an actor. A director may
               | know what they need despite being unable to perform it
               | themselves.
        
               | vacuity wrote:
               | I think teaching requires not only that you understand
               | how to do something, but also what someone else's
               | incomplete understanding is. You need to address the root
               | cause as to why the other person's understanding is so
               | lacking, like your examle with the tango dancer, instead
               | of pointing out that a move is wrong and not giving the
               | tools to prevent it. There may be many paths to reaching
               | similar understandings, and a teacher needs to be able to
               | tame this sprawling diversity. That's one reason why we
               | don't just get blog posts or films that are exceedingly
               | short, because if everyone could just understand a dry
               | delivery of the core points instead of needing to think
               | through multiple examples and reasons, we wouldn't be so
               | pressed about teaching.
        
             | Brian_K_White wrote:
             | I would say that if you can't explain on a blackboard how
             | to ride a bicycle, then that simply means you do not
             | understand how to ride a bicycle. You can do a thing
             | without understanding it. I would guess very few bike
             | riders really understand what all makes the act work even
             | though they all can perform the act.
             | 
             | Maybe no one can _learn_ how to ride a bike purely from a
             | blackboard but that is a seperat issue about physicality.
             | 
             | But the quote is really about understanding, and the forces
             | and effects that go into the act of riding a bike are both
             | understandable and explicable. Anyone who understands them
             | can describe them on a blackboard. So the quote holds water
             | even in the case of riding a bike.
             | 
             | I would say anyway.
             | 
             | Maybe there are other examples and bike riding just wasn't
             | the best example to invalidate the quote.
        
           | endoblast wrote:
           | Where it gets complicated is that one can know _how_ to do
           | something without being able to explain it to oneself let
           | alone teach it to others.
        
             | toomanyrichies wrote:
             | I'm a native English speaker who, a lifetime ago, moved to
             | Shanghai to teach English to adults. One of my biggest
             | struggles when I first started was explaining to students
             | not just what the correct English should be in a given
             | situation, but _why_ that was the correct English. This had
             | a profound effect on my view of expertise and experts in
             | general.
        
               | pmarreck wrote:
               | So forgive the pedantry but what was your takeaway?
        
               | toomanyrichies wrote:
               | One of the big takeaways was not to _over_ -value the
               | knowledge I had gained learning English via immersion in
               | an English-speaking culture, and conversely not to under-
               | value that of the local teachers, who had gained their
               | knowledge in the classroom. It's a cliche at this point
               | to say that "street smarts > book smarts", at least in my
               | culture. My teaching job taught me that there are
               | situations where neither type of knowledge by itself is
               | sufficient, and that both types have their place.
               | 
               | For example, as I mentioned I frequently ran into
               | situations where I could tell whether a student's
               | sentences were correct or not, but I struggled to explain
               | why. One example from early in my teaching career was
               | when students would place their adjectives out-of-order,
               | for example "The German, red, old, large car..." instead
               | of "The large, old, red, German car...". I intuitively
               | knew that the former is incorrect and the latter is
               | correct, but when students would ask me why, I struggled
               | to articulate a reason.
               | 
               | But the local teachers on staff (i.e. native Chinese
               | speakers) would chime in with "The order of adjectives in
               | English is opinion, size, age, shape, color, origin,
               | material, and purpose." They (the local teachers) still
               | made mistakes in _their_ English, but they had mostly
               | memorized the rules from classroom study, and could
               | recite them better than I could. Which was helpful to
               | both us as native speakers (who wanted to give the
               | students concrete answers to their questions) and to the
               | students (who wanted rules to govern future scenarios
               | they might encounter).
               | 
               | I was admittedly a bit cocky coming into that job,
               | thinking I was qualified simply because I was a native
               | speaker. I quickly learned that teaching a subject is a
               | skill unto itself. It requires abilities like gauging
               | levels of understanding by asking comprehension
               | questions, and tailoring the subject matter to those
               | comprehension levels, so as not to either talk down to
               | the student or talk over their head.
        
               | stahorn wrote:
               | As someone that speaks English as my second language, the
               | trick of English is to memorize all the exceptions and
               | then accept that the English spelling is just made up to
               | mess with foreigners.
               | 
               | Looking at you, the "b" in debt, that I was pronouncing
               | for a long time growing up and learning a lot of words
               | from reading.
        
               | somenameforme wrote:
               | A big one is also "ed" like "jogged". It looks like jog
               | ged, so surely it's pronounced that way. Bahaha, no -
               | gotcha! It's jogd! But we like extra letters and there
               | must be vowels even when completely and absolutely
               | unpronounced. Not sure if this is better or worse than
               | Russian which seems to have no problem with squeezing a
               | half dozen consonants side by side and saying, 'good
               | luck.'
        
               | encipriano wrote:
               | Honestly English spelling is the worst at least of
               | Western Europe. Its so bad it that unless you know some
               | IPA and learn the words pronunciation one by one youre
               | misunderstood all the time. Its also imposible to guess
               | with 100% accuracy how a word is said unless being told.
               | 
               | Schwas everywhere randomly (why is it adjust (uhd 'juhst)
               | and not ad 'juhst when we have accept (ak 'sept). In
               | German this is way more consistent. Diphthongs
               | everywhere, almost no pure monophthongs. Which is a
               | language feature but in written form is also fucked. I
               | tend to have problems with oh vs aa sounds. E.g. poland
               | is pou luhnd and polish is paa lish. Stress isnt written.
               | Consonants not only can be spelled differently but also
               | said differently. Gif vs djif, cell vs celt, china vs
               | machine
               | 
               | This makes the language way harder in a high level than
               | it should be if it had had some spelling reform at some
               | point. Sorry for not using IPA Im on the phone.
        
               | dessimus wrote:
               | >E.g. poland is pou luhnd and polish is paa lish.
               | 
               | There's two pronunciations of 'polish' though: the one
               | you mentioned being what one does to grandmother's
               | candlesticks, and 'pou lish' referring to someone or
               | something from 'pou luhnd'.
        
             | ChuckMcM wrote:
             | Exactly correct, but I would say 'Where it gets interesting
             | ...' as opposed to complicated. Like the bike riding
             | comment in a peer to the parent of this comment, there is a
             | difference between 'operating' and 'creating' right?
             | Knowing how to ride a bike tells you nothing about how to
             | design a bike. It is not uncommon in my experience that
             | people mix up these two things all the time.
        
             | hiq wrote:
             | "We can know more than we can tell."
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polanyi's_paradox
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | One my personal trick: imagine that you are magically
           | transported into the 19-th century (or earlier). Can you
           | teach the subject to a well-known scientist of that era?
           | 
           | E.g. if you want to explain radioactivity to somebody from
           | 1860-s, how would you do that? Or for math, how would you
           | explain calculus to Archimedes?
        
             | BobaFloutist wrote:
             | Those both seem much easier to me than what I usually
             | struggle with: Transported back to a pre-industrial time,
             | is any of my technological knowledge or understanding even
             | remotely useful?
             | 
             | Like, sure, germ theory is great I guess, but I have no
             | idea how I'd begin to explain the internal combustion
             | engine (which I'm fairly sure requires pretty advanced
             | metallurgy) let alone something as esoteric as solar
             | panels. Hell, how do you generate electricity? I could
             | mumble something about waterwheels, a coil of wires, and a
             | large magnet, but I have no idea how you'd begin to go
             | about sourcing a large magnet. Industrial-scale mining of
             | Africa/Australia, maybe?
             | 
             | Like, I know a lot, and I could explain a good amount about
             | how a lot of this works conceptually, but I couldn't even
             | begin to explain how to actually _engineer_ it. As far as I
             | 'm concerned, solar panels come from factories.
        
               | jkaptur wrote:
               | Nate Bargatze has a great standup routine about this:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5X1m16-Jvc&t=204s
        
               | cyberax wrote:
               | > Those both seem much easier to me than what I usually
               | struggle with: Transported back to a pre-industrial time,
               | is any of my technological knowledge or understanding
               | even remotely useful?
               | 
               | That's an interesting topic, and there's a whole
               | community that is interested in this. Mostly for
               | historical and educational reasons.
               | 
               | Surprisingly, there are quite a few things you can
               | reasonably do. You will never be able to build a useful
               | internal combustion engine starting in a pre-industrial
               | time. But you'll be able to introduce the positional
               | decimal notation (took 4000 years to invent!), double-
               | entry bookkeeping, paper making, printing press.
               | 
               | If you know a bit of technology, then you can create
               | water plumbing (just avoid lead), and at least some
               | metalworking.
        
               | drewzero1 wrote:
               | This thought experiment reminds me of Mark Twain's novel
               | "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", in which
               | the main character is a 19th-century American man
               | transported back to 6th-century Britain. He used his
               | experience in firearms manufacture to introduce modern
               | weapons and had bicycles constructed for the knights to
               | ride around on. I always thought it was pretty farfetched
               | that he'd be able to recreate such complex technology
               | without the aid of modern tools, much less set up
               | factories to manufacture it in pre-industrial times. But
               | it is a bit fun to imagine someone using knowledge of
               | modern technology to pose as a wizard. As Arthur C Clarke
               | famously said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is
               | indistinguishable from magic."
        
               | vinceguidry wrote:
               | Nineteenth century kit wouldn't really be all that
               | difficult to replicate with the materials available in
               | the early middle ages. Even the precision stuff of the
               | time, you can make a surface plate just by scraping an
               | iron sheet. With a surface plate you can make everything
               | else you need. The hard part would be higher quality
               | metallurgy, but it's certainly doable, the Chinese were
               | making cast iron as early as 5th century BCE. Even steel
               | was possible with even Bronze Age equipment.
        
           | FilosofumRex wrote:
           | He was a life long teacher so if he believed teaching is
           | understanding, he'd have said so.
           | 
           | Making or building is a much deeper level of understanding in
           | real life than teaching would ever be, ergo - those who can't
           | do, teach.
        
           | lloeki wrote:
           | > What I cannot teach, I do not understand
           | 
           | > What we understand well, we express clearly, and words to
           | describe it flow easily.
           | 
           | And the other side of the coin to both is a powerful trick to
           | really nail a topic you feel like you have gaps on: get the
           | basics and teach it / explain it to someone; you then _have
           | to_ explain it clearly thus _have to_ fill all the gaps.
        
         | jimbokun wrote:
         | This is even more relevant in the LLM era. LLMs can spit out an
         | answer to a question. But if you cannot understand and assess
         | those claims at a deep level, you are not adding any value to
         | the process.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | Love his books!
         | 
         | Although, it seems like he's getting a bad rep these days. How
         | did that happen?
         | 
         | PS: I'm referring to that video that pops up on top when you
         | google him for example.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | All the first page results of my Google search are positive,
           | except for the one video (not near the top of the results)
           | that has a provocative title but is 2 hours long. I'm not
           | going to watch that. Can you link to the negative stuff
           | you're seeing?
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | That is the one I was talking about. Watching the first 5
             | minutes is enough I think.
        
               | scintill76 wrote:
               | I've watched 2 Angela Collier videos on him albeit in the
               | background -- you'd probably have to watch the whole
               | thing to truly understand the "bad rep" and I can't speak
               | to how widespread the bad rep is.
               | 
               | My memory is, misogyny, cringey stories that were surely
               | greatly exaggerated and just happen to make Feynman the
               | smartest guy in every room, kind of a jerk in general,
               | divorce due to claimed domestic violence, never did the
               | work of writing a book personally but has the reputation
               | of being a prolific author, his pop appeal makes people
               | elevate him to the very top minds of physics when the
               | work of others was much more impactful.
        
               | sundarurfriend wrote:
               | I haven't watched this particular video, but Angela
               | Collier's channel seems to be unfortunately going the
               | typical way of pop-physicists, like Neil deGrasse Tyson,
               | Sabine Hossenfelder, etc. - becoming famous for their
               | physics-related content, and then assuming they're an
               | expert at everything because they are physicists, and
               | physics explains everything. It seems to be a rare
               | physicist ( _possibly_ Sean Carroll) that 's in the
               | public eye, that doesn't succumb to this disease.
               | 
               | The fault lies partly with the viewers and commenters,
               | ascribing a similar level of expertise to their
               | platitudes and ill-informed takes on, for eg. AI, as to
               | their actual field of expertise. But they don't exactly
               | discourage that either, and in some cases lean into it
               | actively. It's at least a hopeful sign that the descent
               | into "physicist disease" isn't especially rapid in
               | Angela's case, physics still being the primary topic on
               | the channel, but it's still disappointing all the same.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Ironically Richard Feynman is an example of a physicist
               | that doesn't succumb to that disease.
               | 
               | Maybe that's why Angela Collier doesn't like him? Reminds
               | me of how a lot of astronomers despised Carl Sagan.
        
               | tovej wrote:
               | She's the only youtube physicist I can stand, to be
               | honest. Much better than Tyson, and much, much better
               | than Hossenfelder, who's turning out to be a complete
               | crank. Collier is matter of fact, cites her sources, and
               | has non-hot takes on whatever non-physics topic she's
               | talking about (e.g. AI). Sure, she gets the terminology
               | wrong, but she gets the main thrust of the matter right.
               | I say that as a computer science researcher who's
               | concerned about AI ethics.
               | 
               | And her video on Feynman is detailed and worth watching.
               | She goes through evidence from court cases of Feynman
               | strangling his wife, of how Ralph Leighton created much
               | of this myth of Feynman by fanboying him. And she gives
               | him the benefit of the doubt as well, presenting him as
               | flawed, but human.
        
           | elteto wrote:
           | He was misogynistic and, by his own admission, did not hold
           | women in high regard. I don't remember exactly but I think he
           | even admitted that at some point in his life he didn't
           | believe women could be scientists, or at least not as good as
           | men. I think that by the end of his life he had matured and
           | outgrown this.
           | 
           | He was deeply affected by the death of his first wife. I
           | personally believe that he developed misogynistic traits as a
           | way of self-defense and driven by the pain of her loss. They
           | were deeply in love. His farewell letter to her is so
           | beautiful and touching, and yet so pragmatic, in a way that
           | only Feynman could be.
           | 
           | He is a personal hero but I do understand he was human and as
           | such, a flawed individual like anyone else.
        
             | matt_j wrote:
             | Given that his sister Joan was an accomplished scientist in
             | her own right, and they got along well, I don't think your
             | comment is accurate.
             | 
             | > "During the conference I was staying with my sister in
             | Syracuse. I brought the paper home and said to her, "I
             | can't understand these things that Lee and Yang are saying.
             | It's all so complicated."
             | 
             | > "No," she said, "what you mean is not that you can't
             | understand it, but that you didn't invent it. You didn't
             | figure it out your own way, from hearing the clue. What you
             | should do is imagine you're a student again, and take this
             | paper upstairs, read every line of it, and check the
             | equations. Then you'll understand it very easily."
             | 
             | > I took her advice, and checked through the whole thing,
             | and found it to be very obvious and simple. I had been
             | afraid to read it, thinking it was too difficult."
             | 
             | http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/04/richard-
             | feynm...
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Feynman
        
           | halgir wrote:
           | Personally, I experienced a rude awakening when reading his
           | book "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!". I've read part of
           | his lectures, and heard great things about him in general. So
           | I was extremely surprised when his own collection of
           | anecdotes painted him as kind of a shitty human, in my
           | opinion.
           | 
           | Very much an example of "never meet your heroes" for me.
        
           | tovej wrote:
           | He hasn't written a single book (surprising I know), I assume
           | you're talking about "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman",
           | which contains exaggerated anecdotes designed to make Feynman
           | look like a hero. That one was written by a fanboy (Ralph
           | Leighton) based on stories that Feynman told him, which have
           | been revealed to be either fake or exaggerations (they found
           | notes in his office of him writing and rewriting these hero
           | stories).
           | 
           | It's a terrible book, in my opinion. If you want to know why,
           | Angela Collier says it better and in more detail than I
           | could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc
           | 
           | Is that the video you're referring to? Watch the video and I
           | think you'll see why he is "getting a bad rep these days".
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | My version of this was realizing at some point "What I can
         | understand, I can control"
        
         | hcs wrote:
         | > "What I cannot teach, I do not understand"
         | 
         | I tend to agree, but teaching another person is also a whole
         | different set of skills from being able to drive something
         | yourself.
         | 
         | One prominent example is the "curse of knowledge"; it may take
         | a lot of practice becoming a beginner to be able to teach for a
         | beginner's perspective in your area of expertise.
        
           | fknorangesite wrote:
           | God, thank you. I _really_ dislike the old aphorism that if
           | you can 't teach something you don't understand it.
           | 
           | Teaching is a whole complicated skill unto itself, especially
           | if one is teaching to beginners. Like (since we're on HN),
           | how easy is it to imagine someone very good at programming
           | but would be a terrible choice as a Comp Sci 101 prof? I'm
           | guessing "very."
           | 
           | The whole idea deeply undermines teachers of all subjects.
        
             | K0balt wrote:
             | I think that "teach" has a different meaning here. There is
             | "understanding something well enough to elaborate it in its
             | entirety" (the technical capacity to teach it) and then
             | there is the former + "and have the skill/talent of being
             | able to explain it to a wide variety of other people from
             | different backgrounds."
        
         | somat wrote:
         | A similar thing I heard about the amish, is that it is not that
         | they are anti technology, it is that they Don't want technology
         | they can't control, basically if unable to make from raw
         | materials they don't want it.
         | 
         | Now I don't think this is entirely the way things are, I
         | suspect there is a core of truth with a lot of religion and
         | tradition surrounding it. But I have a lot of sympathy for
         | wanting to have the freedom that control over your environment
         | grants you. Personally I would hate to give up my tech. and
         | remain a willing slave to the manufactures.
        
           | guelo wrote:
           | It's impossible, even for Feynman, to understand how to
           | create everything. In your example the Amish idea of "we" is
           | religious bias -- each Amish individual doesn't know how to
           | create everything, they choose to rely only on other Amish,
           | shunning the knowledge of others. "we" can also take on
           | patriotic bias, as in, "we" don't build anything anymore
           | because it's all made in China, thus excluding China from
           | that "we". The fading globalist dream of the 90s was that
           | "we" could include everybody on our little planet.
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | I thought his phrase was "if you cannot teach/explain it, you
         | do not understand it", and that this version was some late
         | development.
        
         | jelder wrote:
         | There's another corollary that always struck me as true:
         | 
         | "To see is to forget the name of the thing one sees." -- Paul
         | Valery
         | 
         | Posted on HN recently:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40700530
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | I finally put my whiteboard back up that's been down since before
       | Covid. It still had scribblings of a novel merge sort with lower
       | space overhead that turned out to be an artifact of non-
       | representative sample inputs. As Bletchley Park taught us, humans
       | are terrible at randomness.
       | 
       | No piece of software replicates the experience of having a board
       | to write things on (or magnet things to, if yours is
       | ferromagnetic like mine). The ones that come closest, that money
       | is better spent on something else.
        
         | peterburkimsher wrote:
         | Great! Would you be able to describe the sorting algorithm as a
         | comment here, to open-source it?
         | 
         | Also, if you'd like a free magnet for your whiteboard, I'll
         | happily send you one from BeWelcome.org;)
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Typically you merge a block A and block B into a new block C
           | that has the same length as A + B. I thought I saw a way to
           | use a few extra pointers and some swap operations to turn A
           | and B into C by chipping away at their left ends, and still
           | being a stable sort. The examples I came up with worked and
           | confirmation bias took over. But in real data there were
           | combinations of runs that broke the algorithm.
        
       | thealch3m1st wrote:
       | They should sell this as a print
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | There's something rather sad, maybe poignant about it.
       | 
       | It stands there as a testimonial to our brevity on this planet,
       | to all that we will not see, do, understand.
       | 
       | So it goes, I guess.
        
         | bcatanzaro wrote:
         | I almost want to read it as satire. Especially juxtaposed
         | against his death. Because the ideas of "What I cannot create,
         | I do not understand." and "Know how to solve every problem that
         | has been solved" seem profoundly unwise and endlessly futile.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | If you are calling Richard Feynman "profoundly unwise" and
           | "endlessly futile", you might need to do a bit more
           | reflection on the grounding for your opinion.
        
             | jszymborski wrote:
             | Surely it can be true that a profoundly wise and
             | consistently effective person holds a belief or utters a
             | phrase that is profoundly unwise and endlessly futile.
        
               | ScotterC wrote:
               | Absolutely true. And paradoxically, they may fully
               | understand that the phrase is profoundly unwise and
               | endlessly futile and yet know the benefit of holding the
               | belief anyway.
        
               | cutemonster wrote:
               | Isn't there an implicit "... that you stumbled upon, and
               | found interesting".
               | 
               | And to him (and others like him), that might have been
               | possible.
               | 
               | While for other more ordinary people, it'd be profoundly
               | unwise and endlessly futile, to hope to do that
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | Feynman has a comment in one of his two autobiographies
             | where he describes an argument with an artist friend --
             | about, I think, the beauty of a rose. His friend believed
             | that "dissecting" the rose, breaking it down to its
             | biological components chemical processes, took away from
             | the beauty of the rose.
             | 
             | Feynman disagreed -- couldn't understand how knowing _more_
             | about the thing could possibly take away from it.
             | 
             | It was the one thing I read from him where I disagreed with
             | him. It seems strange to me he didn't see naivety, wonder
             | as things someone might cherish. Those are things that you
             | are in danger of losing when you come to know too much.
             | 
             | I'm probably belaboring my point, but I remember when I was
             | in my 20's pointing out to my girlfriend at the time some
             | of the more well known constellations in the night sky.
             | They were not well know to her. I'd try to point to a star,
             | point to another -- "There, that's Scorpio. You can see the
             | one reddish star, Aldebaran in the center..."
             | 
             | No, she could not see it. Christ, like Orion, I can't look
             | up at the night sky in winter and _not_ see it. What does
             | she see in the sky at night?
             | 
             | Oh, that's right, an amazing jumble of mysterious points of
             | light -- like I used to as a young boy.
             | 
             | Funny when I later came across "When I Heard the Learn'd
             | Astronomer".
        
               | jstanley wrote:
               | This comment went the exact opposite of the direction I
               | was expecting.
               | 
               | Do you also find that you enjoy magic tricks less when
               | you know how they're done?
               | 
               | Personally I find the "not knowing" kind of painful. I
               | can't imagine cherishing ignorance.
        
               | localhost wrote:
               | You can listen to him talk about it!
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbFM3rn4ldo
        
         | everly wrote:
         | I'm reminded of a passage from the last psychiatrist blog:
         | 
         | "One of the great insights of psychoanalysis is that you never
         | really want an object, you only want the wanting, which means
         | the solution is to set your sights on an impossible ideal and
         | work hard to reach it. You won't. That's not just okay, that's
         | the point. It's ok if you fantasize about knowing kung fu if
         | you then try to actually learn kung fu, eventually you will
         | understand you can never really know kung fu, and then you will
         | die. And it will have been worth it."
         | 
         | I don't think it's sad at all.
        
           | kayvulpe wrote:
           | Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objet_petit_a
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | I once wanted to learn how to change the oil in my car. I
           | learned, and then I changed the oil in my car. It was never
           | about wanting to want to learn about my car.
        
             | everly wrote:
             | That's fine
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | It shouldn't be expressed as a universal then: "you never
               | really want an object, you only want the wanting"
        
               | everly wrote:
               | Sounds like you've got this all buttoned up
        
             | foxglacier wrote:
             | After you learnt it, did you keep on feeling good about
             | that forever or did it just fade away into the pile of
             | other things you don't care about anymore while you went on
             | to want to learn new things?
        
             | ozfive wrote:
             | Of course, some desires are straightforward. But if every
             | want was just about the thing itself, marketing departments
             | would be out of a job.
        
           | wzdd wrote:
           | That is the sort of quote which gives psychiatry a bad name.
           | Of course people want (and achieve) things, label-referrent-
           | object wordplay aside, and of course people come to learn
           | things, despite there being an infinite level of skill
           | achievable. Imagine if instead of talking about kung foo
           | they'd said "peeling potatoes", or "crossing the road", or
           | "taking a shower". Same paradoxes around completion, but
           | somehow less mysteriously unmasterable.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | > _One of the great insights of psychoanalysis is that you
           | never really want an object, you only want the wanting_
           | 
           | ...no it 's not?
           | 
           | Much of traditional psychoanalysis has been superseded by
           | modern psychotherapy. And I'm not even familiar with that
           | idea being part of psychoanalysis in the first place. (And
           | there are many schools of psychoanalysis that disagree with
           | each other too.)
           | 
           | Quite frankly, it's not a great insight. It's perfectly fine
           | to want something and then get it. Don't worry, you'll want
           | something else afterwards. The idea that you should set your
           | sights on an impossible goal doesn't hold up to the slightest
           | logical scrutiny here. And a lot of people get disillusioned
           | or burned out from trying to achieve impossible things and
           | failing.
           | 
           | Modern psychotherapy is actually about aiming for
           | _achievable_ , realistic goals in your life. It's much more
           | in line with the serenity prayer, in terms of aiming for
           | realism:
           | 
           |  _God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot
           | change, the courage to change the things I can, and the
           | wisdom to know the difference._
        
             | everly wrote:
             | It's from a 10+ year-old blog post so I wouldn't expect it
             | to be in line with modern psychotherapy.
             | 
             | It's an insight that has stuck with me since then and seems
             | to strike a chord with others when shared, regardless of
             | whether or not it's "great".
             | 
             | Of course it's fine to want something and then get it. Last
             | night I wanted a Klondike bar so I walked to my freezer and
             | got one. This misses the point entirely.
             | 
             | Plenty of examples of people getting what they thought they
             | wanted and still feeling unfulfilled.
             | 
             | I appreciate your point about the serenity prayer, I think
             | there's something relevant there for sure.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | > _Plenty of examples of people getting what they thought
               | they wanted and still feeling unfulfilled._
               | 
               | Right, I think that's what might be striking a chord.
               | 
               | Modern psychotherapy would tell you that you'd picked
               | something thinking it would solve problems that it never
               | would. A classic example is that if you achieved a
               | certain career objective or measure of success, you would
               | feel loved and approved of and worthy. And then when you
               | achieve it, you don't.
               | 
               | The answer is _absolutely not_ to pick a goal you can 't
               | achieve. That's completely wrong.
               | 
               | The answer is to understand that career or professional
               | success will not make you feel loved. That if you feel
               | like you have an unmet need for love and approval, you
               | need psychotherapy to understand where that is coming
               | from in terms of your childhood, current relationships,
               | etc.
               | 
               | And then you can reframe your professional or career
               | goals as something else entirely. And when you reach one,
               | you can feel proud and then set another one. You won't
               | have a feeling of emptiness or unfulfillment, because
               | you'd never set unrealistic expectations for what that
               | achievement would provide.
        
               | hamburglar wrote:
               | It's possible these are both right. You should pick
               | achievable goals which will actually make you happy, and
               | you should pick impossible goals that you will always
               | enjoy working towards.
        
         | noisy_boy wrote:
         | We don't have much time and it takes too long to get that until
         | there is too little left. The latter is the tragedy.
        
           | mentos wrote:
           | Confucius -- 'We have two lives, and the second begins when
           | we realize we only have one.'
        
       | NotAnOtter wrote:
       | Feynman should not be celebrated.
        
         | frakt0x90 wrote:
         | Why? If I recall he was a womanizer but we can admonish his
         | personal choices while celebrating his incredible scientific
         | and pedagogical achievements.
        
           | NotAnOtter wrote:
           | He was a top-tier scientists but kinda disgraceful in every
           | other aspect of his life. Womanizer is a polite way of saying
           | it, I would choose harsher words. He was also just generally
           | a jerk to the people around him.
           | 
           | Think Edison, more than Tesla.
        
             | willy_k wrote:
             | And he's celebrated for his contributions as a scientist
             | and educator, not to ethics or social issues. People don't
             | disavow Ghandi out of hand because he was anti-vax.
        
             | y1n0 wrote:
             | Knew him well, did you?
        
       | kypro wrote:
       | I'm sure a lot of people here have already seen this, but for
       | those who haven't I highly recommend you watch this video of
       | Feynman explaining light,
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4
       | 
       | He had an amazing ability to make physics fun and entertaining. I
       | could listen to him talk all day.
        
       | Mindey wrote:
       | Don't you see? He encoded the driving force of his motivation.
        
       | wnissen wrote:
       | Quite interesting to see [Hans] Bethe Ansatz on there. I wasn't
       | familiar with it, apparently it started as an Ansatz and Bethe
       | corrected it into a theory. But this all happened more than ten
       | years before Feynman was doing physics.
        
       | upghost wrote:
       | Does anyone know what the comment is in the top right of the
       | blackboard? "why cant x sort" or something?
        
         | bsza wrote:
         | I read it as "Why const x sect." (why constant cross section?),
         | but it's hard to make out.
        
       | adultSwim wrote:
       | Feynman used his genius to build annihilation. His contemporary
       | from New York, Jonas Salk was a hero. Richard Feynman should be a
       | warning.
        
       | begueradj wrote:
       | > Know how to solve every problem that has been solved.
       | 
       | I wonder how developers nowadays can related to that since -some
       | of them- relate on AI to watch it doing their craft.
        
         | Shorel wrote:
         | They don't, and they can't. They don't even know that they
         | can't.
         | 
         | The mathematics mindset and the programming mindset could not
         | be more different.
         | 
         | Writing a mathematical proof is similar to writing everything
         | from scratch each time.
         | 
         | However, and this is a serious affirmation: learning to write
         | mathematical proofs will make anyone a much better developer,
         | because of the changes in the mental processes involved in the
         | creation and expression of ideas.
        
           | MisterSandman wrote:
           | What? Every mathematical proof is built on top of other
           | proofs, especially when you look at research that is
           | happening today.
           | 
           | Mathematics and Computer Science mindsets are closer than
           | most other pairs of academic streams. There's a reason why so
           | many universities have their CS departments under their Math
           | Departments.
        
             | xanderlewis wrote:
             | These days it's more like math departments under CS
             | departments (which are seen as highly important, as a CS
             | degree is more fashionable than a maths one and mathematics
             | is seen as an abstruse academic pursuit in the worst sense
             | and a financial sink rather than a source).
             | 
             | It's true that (almost) every proof is built on top of
             | others, but this is not the way mathematicians learn their
             | craft -- you do have to _start_ at the bottom.
             | 
             | The average programmer, on the other hand, has never been
             | anywhere near the hardware or, these days, the software
             | near the bottom.
        
       | shimonabi wrote:
       | He was a con artist with a Nobel Prize.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc
        
         | Xelynega wrote:
         | It's interesting having this video be my introduction to
         | Feynman, then seeing how people talk about his personality.
         | 
         | She brings up points that don't seem easy to dispute, yet all
         | of the comments here seem to be praise for the man outside of
         | just his achievements.
        
           | ballooney wrote:
           | This website is 99% the sort of not especially socialised
           | young men who for various psychological insecurities are
           | prone to the sort of hero-worship that she refers to in the
           | video.
        
         | bsza wrote:
         | Every person is a con artist if you're cynical enough.
        
         | DiogenesKynikos wrote:
         | A "con artist" does not invent the action formulation of
         | quantum field theory.
        
       | dangtheory wrote:
       | What about the rest of the blackboard? couldn't make some of it
       | out (right side).
        
       | nav wrote:
       | "What I cannot create, I do not understand" , loved it and
       | cropped it up as a little picture reminder for anyone that is
       | interested.
       | https://x.com/nav_chatterji/status/1893224035737030823
        
       | kensai wrote:
       | There is more!
       | https://digital.archives.caltech.edu/collections/Images/1.10...
        
       | EncomLab wrote:
       | Anyone know why it seems that Feynman is coming under attack
       | lately - most prominently by You Tuber Angela Collier whose "the
       | sham legacy of Richard Feynman" now has nearly 1M views? I don't
       | understand it at all.
        
         | afterburner wrote:
         | If you watch it all the way to the end (or skip towards the end
         | if you like), she does mention this legacy is a result of
         | exaggerated stories not even written down by him, but related
         | second hand by people around him with their own attitudes (and
         | financial inventives). He was probably not an angel, even a bit
         | of a cocky dick maybe sometimes in the way of the times, and
         | perhaps a bit vain, but stories related second hand when he was
         | probably joking around don't necessarily represent the true
         | history of his life.
         | 
         | She has good things to say about him in the end, from the
         | evidence of his actual behaviour, like doing education outreach
         | and loving his wife.
        
         | tovej wrote:
         | Well, for one, he strangled his wife when he got upset:
         | https://slate.com/technology/2019/01/richard-feynman-physica...
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | Too bad he did not live that exceptionally long despite such an
       | exceptional mind and accomplishments. Life is weird in that way.
        
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