[HN Gopher] 1561 Celestial Phenomenon over Nuremberg
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       1561 Celestial Phenomenon over Nuremberg
        
       Author : handfuloflight
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2025-02-19 02:16 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | tomohelix wrote:
       | What do they mean by "fight"? The original text is very vague
       | about it. How did they fight? Is there any other independent
       | record of such a large scale event? Any resulting discussion or
       | acknowledgement from official authorities at the time?
       | 
       | If not, then this is likely unreliable and likely as good as
       | fiction.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The flyer is the only source on this specific event. (More
         | realistically, it mixes descriptions of multiple events with
         | religious and military themes of the time.) Such flyers about
         | celestial phenomena and miracle signs were popular in that time
         | period. The Wikipedia article links to two other similarly
         | strange ones.
         | 
         | Hardly anyone nowadays takes them at face value, but it's also
         | not completely clear what exactly inspired them.
        
         | robwwilliams wrote:
         | Same type of report from Basel in 1566:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1566_celestial_phenomenon_over...
        
       | someuser54541 wrote:
       | I can't be the only one who immediately thought "Star Destroyer"
       | regarding the "black spear".
        
         | Henchman21 wrote:
         | May the Force be with you, someuser54541
        
       | IlikeKitties wrote:
       | This is one of those classic UFO lore documents. The German
       | Wikipage is much more expansive in context, here's a short
       | translated part that should tell you all you need to know about
       | this one:
       | 
       | > Magin concludes by pointing out that reports of supposed
       | "battles in the sky" were already very popular in antiquity and
       | especially in the Middle Ages and were written down in
       | astonishingly large numbers and distributed on leaflets and
       | woodcuts. At this time, the Christian religion had a great
       | influence on the everyday lives and world view of ordinary people
       | and interpreted celestial phenomena of all kinds as "divine
       | miraculous signs" or "warning signs from God". Accordingly, the
       | illustrations are littered with Christian symbols. Pious people
       | saw themselves "admonished by God" through such leaflets and
       | miracle reports to confess and remain faithful to him. A report
       | such as Glaser's would therefore come as no surprise, as the
       | people of his time would have known how to interpret the leaflet
       | correctly.
        
       | empath75 wrote:
       | Even assuming that this is an accurate recounting of what people
       | believe they saw, we can dismiss out of hand that this is
       | describing UFOs or any kind of space battle. It would have been
       | visible all over Europe and there were astronomers all over
       | Europe that were actively looking at the skies who would have
       | been _extremely_ interested in an event like this. It wouldn't
       | haven't been a notice in a small broadsheet in the middle of
       | nowhere.
       | 
       | There's not really enough information presented to know if this
       | is even a faithful recounting of what witnesses say they saw,
       | though. We don't know if the publisher was more like the NY Times
       | or more like the Weekly World News. Did it regular publish
       | fanciful accounts of the supernatural? I suspect that it did.
       | This was right at the birth of the modern era when modern science
       | was just getting started, but also while witch trials were going
       | on, and this reads just like the fanciful accusations of sorcery
       | and witchcraft against people that were common at the time. And
       | also in the middle of the Reformation, when religious conflicts
       | were at the forefront of people's minds. A war in the heavens
       | would have reflected the war of faith on earth that was going on
       | at the same time.
       | 
       | This is one of those niche topics that Wikipedia is just awful at
       | because the only people interested in editing it are going to be
       | people who have a particular interpretation of it. This is
       | interesting psychologically and historically because it tells us
       | something about how people used symbolism and interpreted "signs"
       | in the sky, but it tells us absolutely _nothing_ of value about
       | what anybody migh have seen or not seen on that day.
       | 
       | Edit: Also -- keep in mind that the early days of the printing
       | press had a similar impact at the time to social media today. An
       | absolute deluge of bullshit, fraud and scams unleashed on a naive
       | population who trusted everything they saw in print and didn't
       | have the tools to distinguish truth from falsehood. You'd think
       | after 500 years people would be better at it.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-22 23:00 UTC)