[HN Gopher] NASA's James Webb Space Telescope faces potential 20...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       NASA's James Webb Space Telescope faces potential 20% budget cut
        
       Author : consumer451
       Score  : 114 points
       Date   : 2025-02-21 18:25 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.space.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.space.com)
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | You can find NASA's 2025 Budget Request Summary here (PDF link:
       | https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/fy-2025-budg...).
       | It's a visually great deck that provides a lot info.
       | 
       | From Slide 26: "$317M supports the operation of Great
       | Observatories including the James Webb Space Telescope, Hubble,
       | and Chandra".
       | 
       | Can't some of the money that's been saved from other cutting
       | channeled to NASA?
        
         | rqtwteye wrote:
         | They could stop with the Mars nonsense and cancel SLS.
        
           | preisschild wrote:
           | lol the Mars project is a prestige project for Musk now, no
           | way that gets defunded.
        
             | radicalbyte wrote:
             | It's a distraction and likely a way to fund money to his
             | companies.
        
               | rockemsockem wrote:
               | I find people like you fascinating. Like it's so obvious
               | that the guy is actually legitimately obsessed with going
               | to Mars. You can question whether that's a good idea and
               | everything else about him, but it's so obvious that this
               | is legitimate.
               | 
               | So I'm seriously so, so curious, because you are far from
               | the only person to think this, why do you think Mars is
               | actually a facade to funnel money to his companies?
        
               | sdenton4 wrote:
               | Well, at one time he was obsessed with going to Mars...
               | Now he seems more obsessed with being the most based
               | twitter user and wrecking people's lives for upboats from
               | his cronies.
        
               | throwaway173738 wrote:
               | This might surprise you but you can't always take what
               | people say at face value. You also have to think about
               | why they say they want something and what else they might
               | want. Mars is a great example of something he could fund
               | himself, and something he presumably has funded in the
               | past. So if he's going to take government funding now
               | when he's holding the strings, it stands to reason that
               | he's taking advantage of his position. And you can see
               | that play out with the $400 million dollar purchase of
               | Cybertrucks for example where there are tons of more
               | cost-effective tools for the job. So it seems like
               | whatever he says his real goal is to strip-mine certain
               | agencies for profit while he does it. Why would we trust
               | him?
        
               | brandonagr2 wrote:
               | This might surprise you, but you have no idea what you
               | are talking about.
               | 
               | You don't have to believe anything Elon says, just look
               | at what he has done for the past 22 years. SpaceX was
               | founded on the singular purpose of getting to Mars. Elon
               | originally tried to buy ICBMs from Russia to launch to
               | Mars, when that fell through he started his own rocket
               | company. The entire tech stack and rockets being built
               | are to reduce the cost of mass to orbit by the orders of
               | magnitude needed to colonize mars. There is no other
               | reason to build something as huge as Starship. Elon IS
               | funding getting to mars by himself, the Starship program
               | is mostly self funded, with the Artemis HLS contract
               | coming well after the program was started.
        
               | cma wrote:
               | He said his Tesla comp package was 100% to get to Mars
               | for mankind then immediately bought Twitter when it hit
               | the perf targets and he first got the package.
        
               | cess11 wrote:
               | If he is "obsessed" with that, why is he so disinterested
               | in making progress towards it?
        
               | scottLobster wrote:
               | Is he? Obsessed people are generally hyper-focused on
               | their obsession by definition, Musk has pivoted to
               | electric cars, "free speech" and now re-shaping
               | government since announcing his Mars ambitions.
               | 
               | He's definitely obsessed with being seen by others as the
               | guy who's going to be the first to Mars, but I'd put it
               | in the same camp as his obsession with being seen as an
               | elite Path of Exile 2 player.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | Consider it this way: it is absolutely a way to funnel
               | money to his companies _because_ he is (probably
               | genuinely) obsessed with getting to Mars. More money for
               | his companies means faster development of his technology,
               | and the ability to do more in parallel. He knows this, of
               | course. It doesn 't matter if the reason for his greed is
               | Mars, or just plain old greed.
               | 
               | Musk's position as CEO of SpaceX and head of DOGE is the
               | most conflict-y of conflicts of interest when it comes to
               | deciding what happens to NASA. It 100% doesn't matter if
               | he is the truest of true believers in the need to make a
               | settlement on Mars. We should not be giving him the power
               | to dismantle other space-related efforts to fuel his
               | personal project. Even if he is right at how critical
               | Mars is, it is incredibly dangerous to allow people with
               | conflicts of interest to be responsible for decisions on
               | this scale.
        
               | rqtwteye wrote:
               | I think it's the other way around. He is obsessed with
               | Mars and now he has the influence to make it happen with
               | the help of taxpayer money.
        
           | worik wrote:
           | The SLS being a government funded competitor to SpaceX has
           | little hope...
           | 
           | That said I am unsure if that is that much of a blow. The
           | government is very good at some things, it looks to me (I am
           | a casual observer) that SpaceX has eaten their lunch in terms
           | of a space programme.
           | 
           | But the James Webb was exactly the sort of incredibly
           | difficult, high risk project that NASA (and Government labs
           | generally) excel at. No private company would ever do
           | something like that. It is a huge achievement and is changing
           | our view, again, of the Universe.
           | 
           | So I guess it will be doomed now too. Noting so dangerous as
           | a good example.
        
             | SubjectToChange wrote:
             | _The SLS being a government funded competitor to SpaceX has
             | little hope_
             | 
             | SLS was never about being the most practical and/or
             | efficient launcher. It is a pork barrel project, but one
             | with an important role. In particular, it is maintaining
             | vital aerospace industrial capacity. If the US wants things
             | like ICBMs then programs like SLS are a necessary evil.
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | Oh man, Elon is going to propose a Falcon-9 based ICBM
               | isn't he? Might as well go full Bond villain at this
               | point.
        
               | fooker wrote:
               | ICBMs have usually been solid fuelled as they can be
               | stored ready to launch.
               | 
               | Typically when you have a situation warranting nukes you
               | won't have time to fuel a falcon 9.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | There's lots of bad ideas currently becoming government
               | policy, and that's not even a unique flaw of the USA or
               | Trump or Musk.
               | 
               | So, just because idea of using Falcon 9s as a delivery
               | solution for a strategic nuclear deterrent may be as bad
               | as ordering your chief designer to throw a big steel ball
               | at the window of the new model of car you're currently in
               | the middle of announcing even despite the guy's obvious
               | reticence, doesn't mean it won't happen.
        
               | b59831 wrote:
               | This is a stretch.
               | 
               | Someone makes an uneducated point but it must be defended
               | because Musk bad...
               | 
               | Do you think you're making a good point here?
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | I don't think it's a stretch at all. GP is pointing out a
               | specific instance that illustrates that Musk doesn't
               | truly understand the capabilities of the things he
               | builds. He talks a good game, but he's not actually a
               | rocket scientist/engineer. But he'll push for whatever he
               | wants to push for, and people like Trump will eat it up
               | and let him do what he wants.
               | 
               | If Musk wants to push for "Falcon 9-based liquid-fueled
               | ICBMs", he'll do so, even if he actually does know
               | they're not the best/right tech for the job. And someone
               | like Trump will listen to him.
               | 
               | It's also a bit in bad faith of you to play the "you only
               | disagree because Musk bad" card, when GP explicitly
               | acknowledges that these sorts of bad government decisions
               | are not unique to the US/Trump/Musk.
        
               | Arubis wrote:
               | US-based ICBMs, yes. Russia and China have actively
               | fielded liquid-fueled ICBMs.
        
               | nickff wrote:
               | The USA also fielded liquid-fueled ICBMs, but I believe
               | they have all been decommissioned in favor of solid-
               | fueled missiles, which are more reliable and easier to
               | store.
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | No one is seriously going to propose a liquid fueled
               | rocket for the nuclear deterrence mission. It simply
               | doesn't work.
               | 
               | However, there are potential military applications for a
               | vehicle like Falcon 9. For example, imagine being able to
               | insert a Special Operations team almost anywhere almost
               | anywhere in the world on a few hours notice. In a
               | potential near-peer conflict there will also be a need to
               | quickly launch replacement military satellites to make up
               | attrition losses.
        
               | justin66 wrote:
               | If the US wants ICBMs they'll leverage existing designs.
               | The SLS has nothing to do with them, not in the
               | slightest, aside from the fact that they're all
               | cylindrical in shape.
        
               | rqtwteye wrote:
               | Maybe they are also orange?
        
           | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
           | SLS has been to the moon and back. Starship hasn't yet made
           | it to orbit.
        
             | nickff wrote:
             | SLS has been _around_ the moon and back; that mission was
             | equivalent to an unmanned Apollo VIII. Going around the
             | moon is much easier than landing on it and coming back.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | Sure. And not-quite-getting-into-orbit is easier --
               | significantly easier -- than going around the moon.
               | 
               | What's your point, really, aside from nitpicking, when
               | "orbiting the moon" is a perfectly reasonable
               | interpretation of the statement "been to the moon and
               | back"?
        
             | bpodgursky wrote:
             | Starship has made orbit several times.
        
               | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
               | No it has not. Cite a source please.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | Kinda. They demonstrated orbital delta-v, but the perigee
               | was always low enough to guarantee re-enter atmosphere
               | after just half an orbit from launch, because of SpaceX's
               | unreadiness to confidently perform a controlled de-orbit
               | otherwise.
        
               | bryanlarsen wrote:
               | To be pedantic, Starship has made orbital velocity
               | several times. It didn't circularize enough to be a full
               | orbit. A full orbit would have been irresponsible. Blue
               | Origin has left a massive trail of space junk from their
               | last test mission because they went for an ambitious
               | orbit rather than one that would passively deorbit
               | immediately.
               | 
               | https://x.com/shell_jim/status/1891842756500222212
        
         | justinator wrote:
         | Stop trying to use logic to make sense of these budget cuts.
         | The budget cuts aren't about saving money. They're about
         | destroying whole parts of the Government.
        
           | dandanua wrote:
           | You see, those are necessary steps since billionaires are
           | tired of rules and regulations that don't let them grow and
           | thus hold America back, so it can't be great again.
        
           | y33t wrote:
           | They don't want to destroy it, just make it so useless they
           | have pretext to privatize it.
        
             | nickff wrote:
             | I don't think anyone wants to privatize any of the space
             | telescopes or NASA as a whole. Do you have any evidence
             | that there is someone who does?
        
               | ericmay wrote:
               | Generally speaking the current administration is looking
               | to cut some functions and programs from federal agencies
               | and then pay private entities to perform those same
               | functions because they believe that private industry can
               | perform those same functions better more cheaply [1].
               | There is certainly some merit to that, however I think
               | being dogmatic one way or the other is for simpletons.
               | 
               | Specifically for privatizing space telescopes or
               | privatizing NASA as a whole I don't think that has been
               | on the table, but you can imagine a scenario in which
               | eventually something like 20%, 40%, 90% or some other
               | significant portion of NASA's "funding" is just a pass-
               | through vehicle for private contracts.
               | 
               | Honestly if you want to learn and understand more about
               | some of these activities you can just read the news
               | because a lot of analysis is being done, well-informed
               | opinions are being written, and indisputable factual
               | evidence including quotes, interviews, and detailed data
               | are publicly available. Admittedly some reporting is
               | behind paywalls, but that's easy to get around. I
               | understand it's not very fair to tell someone to "go read
               | the news", but if you can't keep up with current events
               | or you aren't willing to that's kind of just your
               | problem. There are plenty of websites across the
               | political spectrum ranging from the Financial Times to
               | the Economist, to the New York Times, Wall Street
               | Journal, international journals, and more including
               | locally focused websites that keep tabs with events going
               | on at the federal, state, and local level. It's certainly
               | a lot but it's your responsibility as a citizen (assuming
               | you are American, apologies if not) to keep yourself
               | informed and well read.
               | 
               | [1] I'm being charitable here because I _personally_
               | believe that the goal is to just funnel money from
               | government agencies to specific private enterprises that
               | have the favor of the current administration. Crony
               | Capitalism is what that is called. The current
               | administration has not _yet_ earned my trust to believe
               | otherwise.
        
               | nickff wrote:
               | I was replying to a comment that said:
               | 
               | > _"They don 't want to destroy [NASA], just make it so
               | useless they have pretext to privatize it."_
               | 
               | I just think they were wrong. I agree that the current
               | administration does want to prevent the administrative
               | agencies from doing many things, but I don't think anyone
               | is actually looking to privatize NASA or the telescopes.
        
               | LargeWu wrote:
               | Yes, certainly Elon Musk, who owns SpaceX, has no
               | conflicting interest in privatizing America's space
               | operations...
        
               | ericmay wrote:
               | I think you're assuming a maximalist interpretation where
               | the federal government sells NASA or spins it off as a
               | private company or something like that. What the OP was
               | likely referring to (and they'll have to answer
               | definitively) was the privatization of significant
               | portions of NASA potentially so that it just acts as a
               | pass-through entity for private contracts.
               | 
               | Take something like the James Webb Space Telescope. NASA
               | could potentially build its own rockets to launch its own
               | telescopes [1]. Instead what we might see is NASA wants
               | to launch a rocket with their telescope, but their
               | capacity to launch a rocket has been privatized via
               | contracts that go to private enterprise instead of
               | through NASA.
               | 
               | Since many in the Trump administration have espoused the
               | belief that existing functions of government and/or
               | administrative agencies would be better off privatized or
               | completely cut, many are worried that the same fate
               | awaits NASA with crony capitalism as the end result.
               | 
               | When you say that you don't think anyone is looking to
               | privatize NASA or the telescopes, instead what you should
               | be considering isn't NASA being completely privatized in
               | the sense that it's now a private entity separate from
               | the government, but you should be considering NASA as
               | being privatized in the sense that Congress and the Trump
               | administration allocate taxpayer dollars _through_ NASA
               | to private enterprise for existing or potentially new
               | NASA functions in the future. It 's less so about literal
               | 100% privatization, and more so about someone who happens
               | to have a rocket company gets taxpayer allocated funding
               | "from NASA" to provide services. I also don't think NASA
               | as it exists today will be 100% privatized, maybe 40% is
               | privatized, etc. , and the space telescopes won't be
               | because they don't generate revenue, but what I do think
               | will happen and it's up to the Trump administration to
               | convince me that this isn't the case and earn my trust,
               | is that they will allocate funding for NASA works
               | specifically to private enterprise that is in favor with
               | the current administration in a form of crony capitalism.
               | 
               | One way to maybe think about this would be imagine that
               | we "privatized" the IRS and in order to file your taxes
               | you would have to file through one of many existing
               | vendors who have contracts from the IRS and charge you to
               | file your taxes. Does that feel right? Why can't we just
               | file directly with the IRS?
               | 
               | [1] I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, it's
               | just an example.
        
               | throw0101a wrote:
               | > _Generally speaking the current administration is
               | looking to cut some functions and programs from federal
               | agencies and then pay private entities to perform those
               | same functions because they believe that private industry
               | can perform those same functions better more cheaply
               | [1]._
               | 
               | In some cases they want the federal agency to completely
               | stop doing things and let the private sector do them
               | instead: for example the National Weather Service.
               | 
               | Some folks (e.g., the CEO of AccuWeather) wants zero free
               | weather reports from the government, and you'd have to go
               | to a private corporation to get a forecast.
               | 
               | John Oliver had a segment on it during Trump 1.0:
               | 
               | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGn9T37eR8
        
               | omegaworks wrote:
               | Musk just yesterday asserted that it was time to deorbit
               | the ISS.[1] Decommissioning telescopes would not be out
               | of the question.
               | 
               | 1. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1892621691060093254
        
               | bradyd wrote:
               | That is something NASA has already been planning for a
               | while now.
               | 
               | https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/iss-
               | deorbit-...
        
               | jtgeibel wrote:
               | Yes this has been planned for a while. But accelerating
               | the existing schedule by 4 or 5 years would almost
               | certainly result in a large increase to the existing $843
               | million dollar contract that Space X has. Elon definitely
               | has a conflict of interest here.
        
               | bmelton wrote:
               | The Biden administration released an RFP a year ago to
               | exactly that end. IIRC, there was an $800+ million
               | contract awarded.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | Sure, and speeding up the ISS deorbit timeline would
               | almost certainly mean a lot more money for SpaceX, at a
               | time when SpaceX's competitors are still very far behind
               | in terms of capability. Musk wants an earlier ISS deorbit
               | because it lines his pockets sooner, and more reliably.
               | 
               | Not only does Musk have a lot of power to get favors
               | granted to him now, but I'm sure he also realizes that
               | there could be significant backlash against him and his
               | companies during a future administration, if his and
               | Trump's actions turn out to be as broadly, bipartisan-ly
               | unpopular as I'm hoping. So not only will he want to
               | extract as much as he can from the government now, he'll
               | want to consolidate and increase his lead over his
               | competitors so a future administration may have no choice
               | but to continue using SpaceX for the bulk of its needs.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | The ISS is essentially worthless and the contract to
               | deorbit has already been given to SpaceX (during the
               | Biden administration no less.) There is no useful (much
               | less economically sensible) research being done on the
               | ISS. If you consult NASA FAQs, the way they like to
               | justify it to the public is the ISS is a center for
               | research that will help humanity live in space. That's
               | bullshit. We figured out decades ago that human bodies
               | start breaking down after more than a few months in
               | microgravity and there's really fuck-all that can be done
               | about that. Pursuing spin habs is one possible avenue for
               | the future, but the ISS isn't one. It's dead end
               | technology.
               | 
               | And on the topic of dead end technology, let's face the
               | fact that the ISS is just Mir 2 with US participation.
               | The DOS-8 module it's built around is the module Mir 2
               | was to be built around, Mir (1) being DOS-7, and the
               | previous DOSes were the Salyut stations. Direct hardware
               | lineage. The only reason these things exist in the first
               | place is because the Soviet Union though space stations
               | would be good for earth observation, a role they are
               | wholly obsolete in now, but once the Soviet Union started
               | building something they liked to keep building it long
               | after it made sense (see also, the Vostok capsule, which
               | they are still using as a satellite bus to this day.).
               | And the only reason the US is involved in this is
               | literally welfare to the Russian aerospace industry to
               | prevent their engineers from having to seek employment in
               | Iran/etc. In this role too, it is obviously obsolete.
               | 
               | Now a word about Mars, because I can already sense
               | somebody about to accuse me of being a senseless musk
               | fanboy. Mars colonization makes no sense and musk is
               | lying about pursuing it. For a Mars colony to actually
               | become a "backup for humanity" of whatever drivel he
               | claims, it would need to bootstrap itself into self
               | sufficiency, which at the very least would require a
               | viable economy for trading with Earth. No such economic
               | plan for a Mars colony exists. Furthermore, SpaceX isn't
               | even investing in the creation of the requisite colony
               | hardware, the habitats and Martian industrial
               | infrastructure which would be required to make it work.
               | What they're actually doing is far more mundane; building
               | rockets for launching satellite into Earth orbit. The
               | Mars talk is just a recruitment tactic to pull in young
               | idealistic engineers and get them to work long hours for
               | cheap.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | Nothing could make less sense than a plot to privatize
               | space telescopes. Space telescopes have no commercial
               | value whatsoever. All satellites which have commercial or
               | military value are pointed at earth. The only plausible
               | counterexample is a few of those pointed at the sun, and
               | they only have value insofar as they can make forecasts
               | about solar weather that may disrupt affairs on Earth.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | I think it's less a plot to privatize space telescopes
               | and more a plot to shutter NASA and get the US government
               | out of the space industry altogether and privatize
               | everything.
               | 
               | Which means that either companies find commercial value
               | in space telescopes or else we just don't have space
               | telescopes.
               | 
               | But don't worry, we'll always have luxury trips into LEO
               | for billionaires.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | After decades of searching, the only good uses for space
               | telescopes thus far found is keeping university
               | researchers entertained and making cool posters for geeky
               | kids to hang in their bedrooms.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | They don't necessarily care about space telescopes. They
               | care about someone else receiving the tax money than
               | NASA.
        
           | mandeepj wrote:
           | You packed quite a punch in that short comment! Those fed
           | employees who voted for this govt. and got laid off must be
           | feeling a voters remorse.
        
             | radicaldreamer wrote:
             | Facebook is packed with posts of people saying they support
             | this administration but could they please make an exception
             | for their own role or for their loved one whose nursing
             | care got cut (at the VA) etc.
             | 
             | They still don't understand that they voted for this
             | specific thing, nobody was shy during the campaign about
             | what was to come.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | I'd say at least the SLS program is in jeopardy. NASA has
         | notably had some real scares recently about massive job cuts
         | that have thus far not panned out. Since the administration
         | revels in chaos this probably won't be resolved neatly or soon.
         | 
         | IMHO if someone wanted to cut the James Webb the time to do it
         | was 15 years ago. Now that it is actually flying and producing
         | the best images of the cosmos to date it is too late. Those
         | costs are fully sunk. The ongoing running costs are downright
         | modest by government standards. Plus the project is visible
         | enough that cuts are likely to result in public outcry.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | Once the money is approved it is then the receiving agency/orgs
         | money. Not the Executive branch's money to redistribute. There
         | is no money being "saved" or "cut", there are only corrupt
         | people halting payments of the budgeted money and illegally
         | laying off workers.
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | > Can't some of the money that's been saved from other cutting
         | channeled to NASA?
         | 
         | What are you a socialist? /s
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | More likely to end up at Space X
        
         | rurp wrote:
         | Many of the announced savings are fake. The actual savings are
         | a paltry number that will be dwarfed by the 100s of billions
         | that will be spent on border security theater, not to mention
         | the trillions in upcoming tax cuts for the wealthy.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | > _Can 't some of the money that's been saved from other
         | cutting channeled to NASA?_
         | 
         | Why would they want to do that? This administration is hell-
         | bent on reducing spending, period, not moving it around, as
         | well as crippling the executive branch's ability to govern. And
         | they don't care what useful initiatives die due to their
         | actions.
         | 
         | And I can't see Trump's supporters caring about this at all. He
         | won the presidency in no small part because he acknowledged
         | that people were facing financial strife, while Harris just
         | kept repeating that the economy was great (implying that anyone
         | with financial issues was either imagining it, or themselves at
         | fault). Why would a Trump supporter care about some "elitist"
         | scientist being able to look at celestial phenomena? They don't
         | care about this stuff, sadly.
        
       | bradly wrote:
       | Not commenting on the budgets cuts themselves, but operations,
       | monitoring, and maintenance of JWST is under contract with
       | Northop Grumman until 2027.
        
         | aaronbrethorst wrote:
         | Whew, good thing Musk and Trump _love_ respecting existing
         | contracts and settled law then.
         | https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/02/18/g-s1-49...
        
       | chrisweekly wrote:
       | Everyone able to make it to the Boston Museum of Science should
       | make a point of watching "Deep Sky" in IMAX (the story of the
       | JWST and tons of new-to-mankind images of the furthest reaches /
       | oldest objects in the universe), it's breathtaking.
       | 
       | https://www.mos.org/visit/omni/deep-sky
        
         | qzw wrote:
         | Not sure if it's the same one, but I saw a similar IMAX with my
         | kids at the Kennedy Space Center a few months ago. Agree that
         | it's well worth seeing and has some spectacular images from the
         | JWST.
        
           | amarcheschi wrote:
           | Oh I thought I had seen it at ksc and then I saw your
           | comment. I agree, it's breathtaking and moving. It's a shame
           | that all of this is happening to save a bunch of money for
           | the wealthy elite that see "you, the people" as disposable
           | items
        
         | jgalt212 wrote:
         | I'm bummed to have missed that when I was last there in 2024.
         | Overall, I was pretty disappointed with the place. It's a good
         | stop for kids under 7, though.
         | 
         | To the contrary, I found the London science museum amazing.
         | Great exhibits and great presentation.
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | It says tickets are unavailable.
        
       | EcommerceFlow wrote:
       | SpaceX has shown us that private enterprise is the way. Giant
       | decades long projects are slow, stifled by bureaucracy, and less
       | effective.
        
         | jmward01 wrote:
         | SpaceX shows the natural boom, decay to a rut, bust out of rut
         | cycle that happens in every industry. Strong independent
         | government institutions make sure that the growth phase when
         | that bust out of rut phase happens stays (relatively) positive
         | for society and free of corruption.
         | 
         | I personally define a corporation as 'evil' when they try to
         | change the regulatory framework to be in their favor since they
         | cross the line from 'playing by the rules defined by society'
         | to 'making up the rules instead of society making them up'. In
         | a democracy it is important that society makes the rules to
         | give the average person a chance to have their priorities
         | listened to. Now that SpaceX is in politics they are an evil
         | company because they aren't beholden to society. Musk will do
         | whatever he thinks is valuable and there are no stops on him. I
         | don't care how amazing the tech SpaceX comes up with, the
         | danger posed by Musk and SpaceX are not even remotely worth it
         | anymore.
        
           | zmgsabst wrote:
           | People voted for this: by definition, what's happening is
           | society making the rules.
           | 
           | You're the one trying to overrule the public.
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | Less than half of voters voted for this. Trump didn't even
             | get a majority of voters to agree with him.
             | 
             | Harris didn't either, and by a slightly worse margin.
             | 
             | I don't think we can make any statements about what the
             | public wants, just based on electoral stats. And beyond
             | that, in a more general sense, if you think that every
             | voter actually knows all the nuance (or even the broad
             | strokes, sometimes) of what their chosen candidate wants to
             | do, well... I've got some news for you.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | SpaceX has shown that certain particular projects can be done
         | better and cheaper via private investment and private
         | enterprise.
         | 
         | SpaceX did not show that a private company can (or would even
         | want to try to) tackle a multi-billion dollar space observatory
         | platform that takes 15+ years to build, and may not be able to
         | provide much in the way of commercial return on investment.
        
       | d3rockk wrote:
       | This is basically "Don't Look Up" in real life.
        
       | sega_sai wrote:
       | Obviously it's pointless to try to make any reasoned arguments.
       | These people don't care, they just want to destroy for the sake
       | of it. In the past I wondered how great civilizations collapse
       | and how this could happen. It is just becoming clearer and
       | clearer every day.
        
         | nine_zeros wrote:
         | Yep. History of humanity is littered with stories of super
         | powers crumbling under their own foolishness. Very strange to
         | actively witness the death.
        
       | renegade-otter wrote:
       | A hedge fund manager, somewhere out there, does not have enough
       | tax cuts to pay for the 5th infinity pool and a lambo. Science
       | can go suck it!
       | 
       | Queue "In the eyes on an angel" by Sarah McLachlan.
        
       | herodotus wrote:
       | Gee, I wonder if this will maybe benefit Space X in some way?
        
         | ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote:
         | You're gonna have to connect the dots here...I don't see the
         | benefit to space x
        
       | BurningFrog wrote:
       | This whole discussion is probably the dumbest I've seen on HN.
       | 
       | Maybe discussing politics just doesn't work here.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-02-21 23:01 UTC)