[HN Gopher] Every .gov Domain
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Every .gov Domain
        
       Author : KoftaBob
       Score  : 272 points
       Date   : 2025-02-21 09:59 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (flatgithub.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (flatgithub.com)
        
       | edent wrote:
       | The equivalent for the UK is
       | https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/list-of-gov-uk-do...
       | 
       | (I helped open that up when I was there.)
        
         | numinix wrote:
         | The parish council websites seem to have a lot of freedom to
         | run their own standards. Lots of WP and shall we say
         | 'nostalgic' web design!
        
           | ChrisRR wrote:
           | Given how many parish councils are just a bunch of biddies,
           | be thankful they even have websites.
        
             | croisillon wrote:
             | TIL a new word!
        
             | markx2 wrote:
             | Having served on a parish council there can certainly be a
             | technology challenge for some.
             | 
             | There are services which will do the work -
             | https://cuttlefish.com/local-councils/ -
             | https://www.parishcouncil.net - are two of many. These have
             | their drawbacks, may not provide exportable data so locking
             | the council in. Some will allow direct access, some require
             | that any new content be sent to them and they upload it.
             | 
             | Some councils will own their domain name, some will not.
             | Then there is the email issue and many will use a gmail /
             | hotmail address.
             | 
             | Cost, especially these days, is also a factor.
             | 
             | I don't see it as a bad thing to have so much variety
             | though.
        
             | jonathantf2 wrote:
             | Our local parish council don't have SPF, DKIM or DMARC set
             | up so every single meeting is just a back and forth of
             | "well I didn't receive that e-mail"
        
               | ChrisRR wrote:
               | Our local parish spent literally years arguing about
               | removing a dog poo bin from a park
        
               | biofox wrote:
               | Critical infrastructure projects require proper due
               | diligence.
        
               | PhilipRoman wrote:
               | something something Chesterton's fence
        
               | ianmcgowan wrote:
               | Let's hope they don't want to paint the bike shed!
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | There are over 10,000 of them, many absolutely tiny.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | One thing that British local government definitely is NOT, is
           | consistent. 500 years of continuous monarchic rule means the
           | backbone of the State is a rickety Rube Goldberg machine,
           | riddled with absurdities and obsolete entities that change
           | every few miles. What you mention is the tip of an iceberg as
           | big as Greenland, where every other town or region is
           | administered in fundamentally different ways for no
           | particularly good reason beyond "that's how it's always
           | been".
           | 
           | For all their centralist instincts, the Westminster classes
           | fundamentally don't care about how the provinces go about
           | their business, as long as they keep paying into London and
           | act adequately subservient whenever the Southern classes come
           | knocking. So we have to live with constitutional aberrations
           | like Cornwall and Lancaster.
        
       | chirau wrote:
       | How do you guys go about doing this? Is there some techy/reverse
       | engineering way or you manually asking each department which
       | domains they have?
        
         | TechRemarker wrote:
         | Did you open the link? The the very top says Data Source:
         | https://manage.get.gov/api/v1/get-report/current-full. Public
         | API provides them all, this is just a website to more easily
         | view that data.
        
         | rayhaanj wrote:
         | You can download a list from here too:
         | https://github.com/cisagov/dotgov-data/blob/main/current-ful...
        
         | chippiewill wrote:
         | Even if there weren't official records, you'd probably be able
         | to get a list of most of them out of the certificate
         | transparency logs (Obviously that would just miss out the non-
         | https enabled ones - less of those these days).
        
           | MediumOwl wrote:
           | There are also Whois DB services, that will provide you with
           | all domains on a given TLD.
        
           | bdavbdav wrote:
           | It's probably the non SSL ones that nefarious actors would
           | find really interesting in the list, as who knows what else
           | is up with them.
           | 
           | I suspect the non ssl ones aren't holding anything
           | particularly useful at this stage though.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | This info is provided by the registrar
         | 
         | https://get.gov/about/data/
        
         | tephra wrote:
         | There are a variety of ways!
         | 
         | Some TLDs gives you open access to just query the DNS and do an
         | AXFR (download the whole zone), for example the .se and .nu
         | ccTLDs (which I happen to work for the foundation managing
         | those): dig @zonedata.iis.se se AXFR > se.zone.txt
         | 
         | For some zones you could use NSEC traversal
         | https://linux.die.net/man/1/walker
         | 
         | For the new gTLDs (.app, .dev, .xyz, etc, etc) there is the
         | Centralized Zone Data Service provided by icann:
         | https://czds.icann.org/home where you can request access to
         | zones.
        
           | chirau wrote:
           | I would want to do .gov.zw
           | 
           | How would I know if they have open access?
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | So there's the possibility of some .gov TLDs being missed,
           | like secret CIA stuff. Or the guy that commented on here that
           | he uses a custom .gov for his home servers.
        
             | BenjiWiebe wrote:
             | The custom .gov for his home servers doesn't exist except
             | in his home network. You can put absolutely any domain in
             | your home network that you want.
        
               | TZubiri wrote:
               | And the TLD .gov doesn't exist except on the internet.
               | Similarly if there's a .gov in some CIA intranet, does it
               | exist or not exist? That's a metaphysical question
        
         | a12k wrote:
         | They're all listed in a csv at cisa, or at least a lot of them.
         | 
         | https://github.com/cisagov/dotgov-data
        
       | pratio wrote:
       | For those like me who want know how the page was built. It's
       | using https://githubnext.com/projects/flat-data/. You can cycle
       | through commits and files. Love it.
       | 
       | Example of another such pages: https://flatgithub.com/the-
       | pudding/data?filename=boybands%2F...
       | 
       | It felt a bit like datasette and no wonder it's the inspiration
       | as well
        
         | renegat0x0 wrote:
         | I struggled for some time how to maintain data in repository.
         | Initially stored them in a JSON files (1k per file). This,
         | eventually, became tedious.
         | 
         | In the end I just redistribute SQLite file now with the data.
         | It is easier for the "user" to use ready database than a set of
         | files.
         | 
         | https://github.com/rumca-js/Internet-Places-Database
        
         | beklein wrote:
         | If you are only interested in the neat table UI check:
         | https://github.com/githubocto/flat-ui
        
       | YPPH wrote:
       | US government domains seem a little over the place. I'm surprised
       | by the number of courts and counties that have random .org and
       | .com domains. In Australia, it follows a pretty strict structure:
       | Federal: entity.gov.au State: entity.wa.gov.au (example for State
       | of Western Australia) Local: entity.stirling.wa.gov.au (example
       | for a local government in Western Australia),
       | 
       | So, for example, the Federal Court is fedcourt.gov.au as it's
       | federal.
       | 
       | Strange how the US has such a mishmash.
        
         | dave881 wrote:
         | I assume that this is the result of a few quirks here in the US
         | 
         | - Lots of things came online in the US before ccTLDs were
         | common, and are still rare for US based orgs
         | 
         | - US states have quite a bit of freedom in how they communicate
         | with their citizens.
         | 
         | - US states vary greatly in services provided and population
         | (from ~600,000 up to ~40M)
        
         | Operyl wrote:
         | It's not terribly difficult to get a gov domain, it's just much
         | easier to do an ordinary one. Smaller towns and cities
         | outsource to cheap WYSIWYG type builders that also include a
         | domain so it's really simple to just go that route too.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | It can get quite unprofessional at that level. There was a
           | small suburb in our metro whose .com domain was an insult
           | against the core city. I'm sure they thought it was funny but
           | eventually it did get changed to the town and state name.
        
         | FinnKuhn wrote:
         | Wait until you see the situation in Germany. Everything uses
         | just a normal .de domain, no special TLD for government
         | institutions at all.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | It's awful, really. Some domain names are so awfully chosen,
           | they sound like scams. Take the government program for
           | financial support to students, called BAfoG. Here's a bunch
           | of domains related to that:                 * bafoeg.de
           | * bafoeg-digital.de       * bafoegonline.bva.bund.de
           | 
           | Or, the worst one in my opinion: the German federal ID card
           | has an integrated RFID chip that requires a PIN to unlock.
           | You can use that chip to authenticate against a few
           | government services online, which rely on the PIN as proof of
           | identity. The PIN can be reset using a OTP sent via snail
           | mail.
           | 
           | Q: where you you think can you order that letter?
           | a) Bundesdruckerei.de       b) personalausweisportal.de
           | c) pin-ruecksetzbrief-bestellen.de       d) bmi.bund.de?
           | 
           | A: yes. It's c. Seriously.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Healthcare billing in the USA has gone this way. You're
             | going to see emails from my-doctor-billing.com directing
             | you to hospital-pay-site.biz _and they 're all totally
             | legitimate_.
             | 
             | It's nuts.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | That's the genius of having states, counties, cities, towns and
         | villages that are almost entirely decentralized. When an evil
         | force takes over the government and wants to rule the whole
         | country, they can't, because nobody even knows how a single
         | tiny village is organized. Complete disorganization and
         | inefficiency as a defense against tyrrany. (or, well, at least,
         | slowing it down)
        
           | rvnx wrote:
           | In that world, we should store that in a blockchain for more
           | efficiency, rather than a csv file.
        
             | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
             | The whole point is for it to be disorganized and flexible.
             | A blockchain is way too organized and rigid
        
               | adolph wrote:
               | otoh, a blockchain is also immutable unless you take out
               | the entire thing, you can't just alter previous
               | transactions without invalidating subsequent ones
        
               | mannyv wrote:
               | You can't access the blockchain when the power + internet
               | are gone.
        
               | adolph wrote:
               | Very true, and also true for the compared technology,
               | csv. In a larger sense, the two are complementary and
               | wouldn't be mutually exclusive.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > When an evil force takes over the government and wants to
           | rule the whole country, they can't, because nobody even knows
           | how a single tiny village is organized.
           | 
           | As we're seeing _right now_ this isn 't true. Everyone is
           | afraid because the current federal executive doesn't give a
           | flying f..k about norms, including telling people "comply
           | with what DOGE wants or get fired" or drawing up lists of
           | "Government Gangsters" [1]. And so, everyone is bending over
           | in fear of getting in the crosshairs, getting government
           | spending contracts cut, getting fired, getting death threats
           | like Fauci, or getting extorted to buy ads on Twitter [2].
           | 
           | Side rant: where are all the "don't tread on me" gun nuts
           | that have arsenals rivaling what would be a special forces
           | unit in smaller countries?
           | 
           | [1] https://rollcall.com/2024/12/09/trumps-pick-to-lead-fbi-
           | iden...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-linda-
           | yaccarino-x-...
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | > Side rant: where are all the "don't tread on me" gun nuts
             | that have arsenals rivaling what would be a special forces
             | unit in smaller countries?
             | 
             | They won the election?
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Gun nut and republicans have overlap but aren't the same
               | group.
               | 
               | Quite a few are really into Libertarian values and hate
               | Republican stances on a wide range of issues.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > Quite a few are really into Libertarian values and hate
               | Republican stances on a wide range of issues.
               | 
               | Mostly abortion and to a lesser extent the "war on
               | drugs". The rest is seeing especially Musk's _blatant_
               | self-dealings [1] and teardown of  "big gubmint" as
               | something _laudable_.
               | 
               | "So This is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause"
               | 
               | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43127819
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | There's far more fundamental disagreement between the
               | parties than that.
               | 
               | Libertarians strongly oppose government intervention in
               | the economy like farm subsidies or specific tax cuts for
               | specific industries. The Reputation party says it
               | believes in free markets, but it doesn't act that way.
               | 
               | The gap between Republican stated goals and actual
               | policies is really stark. I think it mostly works because
               | so few people dig into the details, but some people get
               | really disillusioned.
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | Luckily they are not the only ones with guns.
        
             | Mountain_Skies wrote:
             | Probably out celebrating the shrinking of government, which
             | is one of their core desires, if not their top desire.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | ...while uploading their ID's to government mandated
               | databases in order to watch the trans porn they want to
               | completely outlaw, in the same of small government?
               | 
               | Nah, they just dropped the pretense. Small government was
               | always code for "leave me alone and make _those people_
               | suffer."
        
             | massysett wrote:
             | > As we're seeing right now this isn't true.
             | 
             | It's absolutely true. My county and state government has
             | not changed. My kid goes to the public school, which has
             | not changed. Indeed some of my state officials are suing
             | the federal government.
             | 
             | State and local governments provide many services of
             | enormous importance: schools, police, fire, roads. The
             | President is not ruling all of that.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The problem isn't who provides it, it's where the funding
               | comes from.
               | 
               | If the local school is 90% funded by local taxes, they
               | can ignore the state and federal government for quite
               | awhile.
               | 
               | But if it's only 10% funded directly by local taxes, and
               | the rest (even if coming from the locality!) is funneled
               | through the state and/or federal government, then they
               | can be squeezed on the money side.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > State and local governments provide many services of
               | enormous importance: schools, police, fire, roads. The
               | President is not ruling all of that.
               | 
               | A lot of that hinges closely on cooperation with the
               | feds, and the Trump admin has repeatedly said they will
               | go and target "sanctuary cities" - so much for states
               | rights.
               | 
               | In doubt, the federal government will pull off another
               | drinking ban - the age for drinking is 21 because the
               | federal government threatened to retract highway funding
               | many decades ago, and that was explicitly ruled to be
               | constitutional [1].
               | 
               | Do not think _even for a single second_ that you are safe
               | from the impact of the Trump admin even if you live in a
               | deep blue city in a deep blue state.
               | 
               | In doubt, your daughter might not be able to access plan
               | B any more (or your son stuck paying child support)
               | because, of course, that one is on the target list as
               | well, or your trans kid might not receive the care they
               | need because the federal government plans to ban that as
               | well, and if it's just by banning federally active
               | insurances from covering the cost for such treatment. Or
               | if you're Black and your kid needs to take ADHD meds? Say
               | goodbye to your kid [2].
               | 
               | You all are anything but safe, but by the time you
               | realize it because it starts finally affecting you and
               | your loved ones, _it will be too late_. Take that warning
               | from a German and heed it because we actually lived
               | through that and learn about the time of 1933-45 and the
               | years leading up to it in school!
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinki
               | ng_Age_...
               | 
               | [2] https://wordinblack.com/2025/02/rfk-jr-black-kids-
               | adhd-drugs...
        
           | cjs_ac wrote:
           | I swear 'defence against tyranny' is the justification for
           | every ridiculous thing the US does.
        
             | JustExAWS wrote:
             | Have you been following US politics lately? Right now there
             | is an election denier in a cabinet position. It's partially
             | a good thing that elections are controlled by states as
             | some protection.
        
               | cjs_ac wrote:
               | That just proves my point. All that obsessing about
               | preventing tyrants, and you still end up with one. Maybe
               | if, as a culture, you spent less time poring over quotes
               | from eighteenth-century political thinkers to divine the
               | best possible theoretical form of government, and more
               | time solving concrete problems faced by real-world
               | people, this wouldn't have happened.
               | 
               | The Westminster system is looking very 'worse is better'
               | at the moment.
        
               | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
               | Are you proposing we create a government position for
               | Musk and promote him into it so he can officially have no
               | power? I think I'm on board.
               | 
               | How does it work, does one have to consent to become king
               | or can we just sort of make it happen?
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | The majority of the people in the US want the current
               | situation. Between the fear of the country becoming
               | minority-majority,losing "traditional American values",
               | and protecting pets from being eaten by Haitians, they
               | see Trump/Musk as their last hope.
               | 
               | Admittedly, it didn't help that the DNC re-enacted
               | "Weekend at Bernie's" with Biden for two years.
        
               | saulpw wrote:
               | No, a _plurality of people voted for_ the current
               | situation. Not a majority of people, not a majority of
               | voters (many of whom didn 't vote, or weren't able to
               | vote), and not even a majority of people who voted
               | (49.8%, and no you can't round up).
               | 
               | Also, voting for slate of candidates on one day in the
               | middle of a billion-dollar multi-year misinformation
               | campaign, does not equal "want the current situation". I
               | agree that an egregious number of people are actively
               | cheering for the current chaos, but let's not give them
               | more psychic power than the institutional power they are
               | already wielding.
        
               | palmotea wrote:
               | > The Westminster system is looking very 'worse is
               | better' at the moment.
               | 
               | The same one that _just today_ got Apple to remove E2E
               | encryption from iCloud, so it could get backdoor access
               | to people 's data?
               | 
               | I beg to differ. Centralization is bad. IIRC, it's what's
               | enabling Musk to do so much damage so quickly, and the UK
               | has more of it.
        
               | xienze wrote:
               | > Right now there is an electric denier in a cabinet
               | position.
               | 
               | There's a whole lot more than one. Remember that when
               | Republicans win, the results aren't "denied" but the
               | Democrats sure do cast a whoooole lot of doubt on the
               | proceedings (i.e., "well yes they won but voter
               | suppression, I'm just saying...", "well yes they won but
               | Russian Facebook propaganda, I'm just saying...", "well
               | yes they won, but hanging chads, I'm just saying...").
               | 
               | I'd say "election denial" comes in degrees...
        
               | JustExAWS wrote:
               | Newt Gingrich outright chastised the Republican governor
               | of GA for making voting more convenient in minority
               | neighborhoods was going to increase the chance of
               | Democrats winning. He said the quiet part out loud.
               | 
               | Not to mention that in Texas, student IDs issued by
               | public colleges aren't legal IDs to vote. But gun permits
               | are.
               | 
               | Of course there is Russian interference on social media.
               | Not that I think it makes a difference.
               | 
               | Complaining about any of those things though and saying
               | that's why Trump won is crazy looking at the numbers. He
               | won fair and square. Both of those things can be true.
        
               | xienze wrote:
               | > Not to mention that in Texas, student IDs issued by
               | public colleges aren't legal IDs to vote. But gun permits
               | are.
               | 
               | I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume one of
               | those IDs can be obtained by non-citizens and the other
               | can't, not sure what your point is here.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | Yeah... and it's largely worked. That's the reason it's
             | employed in the first place.
        
         | sybercecurity wrote:
         | The .gov TLD was only for the Federal government in the past,
         | it was opened up later to state/local governments. By then,
         | some had already had <something>.<state>.us, or some other TLD.
         | Most probably thought it was too troublesome to migrate over.
         | That and the fees were more than any other gTLD (though not
         | now).
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | Canadian domain names in the 90s also followed this
           | newsgroup-like syntax: <website>.<city>.<province>.ca
           | 
           | At least one site (transit.toronto.on.ca) still has an active
           | domain in that format, even though it's not operationally-
           | related by the City of Toronto.
           | 
           | It's quaint that folks wanted to root their web presence in
           | their physical world.
        
             | LorenzoGood wrote:
             | Like ouac.on.ca.
        
               | xattt wrote:
               | Tangential: toronto.edu redirects to U of T.
               | 
               | Major early 1990s vibes and the woody smell of the
               | graduate computer labs.
        
               | LorenzoGood wrote:
               | Hopefully I get to go to Toronto lol.
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | I work with US state governments a lot. Departments treasure
         | their .com domains because they can actually get updates to the
         | zone file without having to go through months (literally) of
         | repeated requests to get something added to the .<state>.gov/us
         | domain. If a department or agency has to reach outside to the
         | state IT department for anything the timeline doubles or
         | triples. It's a real problem.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | I used to do lots of consulting work for various departments
           | and agencies in the state I was in at the time. The biggest
           | issue was that the state IT department wanted everything
           | centralized, running on only department servers, using a
           | single platform chosen by them (Vignette StoryServer). Most
           | agencies found that to be too restrictive, especially since
           | at the time Vignette only used TCL.
           | 
           | Even worse was the IT department's insistence that agencies
           | sign a 99 year contract for cost sharing, the amount of which
           | would never be known in advance since it would only be
           | calculated quarterly based on all expenses the state IT
           | department incurred hosting state agencies.
        
           | frakt0x90 wrote:
           | Same for the enterprise (non-tech I assume) world. When I was
           | on the business side, we treasured any compute we could get
           | that was not tied to corporate IT. Going through them would
           | turn a 1 day fix into a 2 week endeavor. Product development
           | would go from 1 month to 6 or more.
        
             | mlhpdx wrote:
             | Yes. I remember the delight of deploying my first server
             | with a credit card. The previous one had taken 6 weeks and
             | $100,000 out of our department budget. Such a godsend.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | You've found out a huge reason cloud took off so hard. Lots
             | of it is shadow-IT.
             | 
             | Nobody except a few universities actually uses subdomains
             | as they should be, where you actually delegate the
             | subdomain to the business unit using it.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | I tried to access gettysburg.edu the other day and was
               | greeted by a stupid redirect page (with a meta refresh
               | tag) insisting on use of www rather than just issuing the
               | redirect immediately.
               | 
               | The reality is they're stuck in 1995 and won't make
               | rational changes.
        
           | belorn wrote:
           | Do you mean that all .gov domains are handled by the same dns
           | service provider? I can understand if the TLD registry is a
           | pain to deal with when it comes to changing information at
           | the top, but zones files? The whole design of dns have
           | delegation as a central feature so that the registry do not
           | need to do everything.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I can understand some local government official "I don't know
         | how to validate things to get a gov ... but I do know how to
         | register a domain" and it's .com.
        
           | cbozeman wrote:
           | Then they should use this amazing tool we have that contains
           | damn near the entirety of accumulated knowledge of Humanity
           | called The Internet.
           | 
           | You don't even have to search any longer. You can literally
           | ask a conversational AI, like this...
           | 
           | How would a local government official obtain a domain name
           | with .gov for their governmental office?
           | 
           | ChatGPT said:
           | 
           | A local government official can obtain a .gov domain for
           | their governmental office by following these steps:
           | 
           | 1. Verify Eligibility .gov domains are restricted to U.S.
           | government entities, including federal, state, local, tribal,
           | and territorial governments. Local government agencies, such
           | as city or county offices, are eligible. 2. Choose a Domain
           | Name The domain name should clearly reflect the governmental
           | entity (e.g., cityname.gov or countyname.gov). Avoid
           | abbreviations or acronyms unless commonly recognized. 3.
           | Obtain Authorization The request must be authorized by the
           | highest-ranking official of the government entity (e.g.,
           | mayor, county administrator). They will need to submit a
           | letter verifying the legitimacy of the request. 4. Submit an
           | Application Visit domains.dotgov.gov to apply. Create an
           | account and complete the application form. Upload the signed
           | authorization letter. 5. Await Review and Approval The
           | Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA)
           | reviews all applications. If approved, the domain is
           | registered, and the office will receive account credentials.
           | 6. Configure DNS and Website Once the domain is active,
           | configure DNS settings. Set up email services and website
           | hosting as needed. 7. Maintain Compliance Ensure the domain
           | is actively used for government purposes. Keep contact
           | information updated to prevent domain suspension. There is no
           | cost for registering a .gov domain as of April 2021, since it
           | is funded by the federal government.
           | 
           | There is literally no excuse for not knowing what to do in
           | the year 2025.
        
             | andelink wrote:
             | Not the best instructions given. I'd erase it all and
             | simply say: Go to https://get.gov/domains and hit the
             | "Start a domain request" button.
        
         | arscan wrote:
         | URLs are a part of the UX of websites. The domain often
         | represents the first interaction between the user and the site.
         | Domains that follow a strict hierarchical structure that aligns
         | to some real-world hierarchy may not be the best first
         | interaction with the user, or at least not in the opinion of
         | those that are creating the site.
         | 
         | So, I think it's natural for site owners to want this freedom.
         | Then it comes down to whether there should be constraints
         | forced on them or not by policy for some greater good. In the
         | US, generally, central planning on this type of stuff isn't
         | really part of the culture.
        
           | nothrabannosir wrote:
           | Oh I thought you were going the exact opposite direction with
           | that reasoning. A hierarchical url is good because it
           | immediately establishes trust and provenance. Currently I
           | never know whether I'm dealing with a for profit entity
           | pretending to be governmental, or actual government.
           | 
           | But maybe _that_ is part of the culture?
        
             | arscan wrote:
             | To technical people, sure. I don't think the average person
             | knows about provenance rules of subdomains though and how
             | it's useful... it's more just a bunch of symbols they don't
             | care about.
             | 
             | And we understand the threats here... a very real problem
             | is someone forgetting to renew one of these .org or .com
             | domains (maybe the person that maintains it retired) and a
             | malicious actor grabs it after expiration, stands up a
             | scraped copy, and uses it to collect parking ticket
             | payments or whatever.
             | 
             | I was actually thinking a bit more about the diversity of
             | domain names under .gov, though I realize now that the
             | parent comment I replied to was about .org and .coms. I
             | think you get a bit of those provenance assurances if they
             | are under .gov, as a practical matter it's harder for
             | malicious actors to own one of those than one under other
             | tlds. And then instead of forcing a strict taxonomy that is
             | mostly for the benefit of the infrastructure maintainers
             | (very enterprise software), there is freedom to use a name
             | that makes the most sense for the target user.
        
           | cbozeman wrote:
           | No, people need to learn how the Internet is organized and
           | named. It's the same as learning the Dewey Decimal system so
           | you can navigate your local library.
           | 
           | It should be taught in school exactly the same way. It's more
           | important in the year 2025 to know that, than it is the Dewey
           | Decimal system, which is still taught in a majority of
           | schools for some reason.
           | 
           | People should know what it means to be connected to a .gov,
           | .com, .org, .edu, .net, .mil site, etc. I know we have a lot
           | of new TLDs, but knowing the originals should be a bare
           | minimum. This isn't rocket science, hell, most of these
           | domains are almost self-explanatory even as three letter
           | codes.
        
             | BobaFloutist wrote:
             | Nobody knows the Dewey Decimal system, they know
             | subject/author/title hierarchy at best, and even then given
             | the ambiguity in subjects they often resort to the
             | computers or librarians to search the catalogue and get
             | directions.
        
         | EvanAnderson wrote:
         | My county government started w/ a "co.Name.oh.us" domain name
         | back in the late 90s. People in the government hated it. The
         | complaint I heard most frequently was that the public couldn't
         | get it right-- too many dots.
         | 
         | I was a fan of the ".co.name.oh.us" naming because it made
         | logical sense. I could easily find any County website in the
         | state. My intuition now is that anything logical (or, perhaps,
         | just anything I like) will be hated by the public. >sigh<
         | 
         | The county moved to "NameCountyOhio.gov". It's 5 characters
         | longer than the old domain name but isn't hated. The public
         | still gets it wrong often, expecting it to be
         | "NameCountyOH.gov".
         | 
         | Edit:
         | 
         | Okay, so I got this totally wrong. Chalk it up to poor memory
         | for stuff 20+ years ago.
         | 
         | There's RFC 1480, first of all:
         | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1480
         | 
         | The old County domain was "co.name.oh.us". I completely forgot
         | the hierarchy was flipped for localities, with the locality
         | being the higher level domain and the designation for type of
         | locality (city, county, etc) being second.
         | 
         | For K-12 school districts, libraries, colleges, and others, the
         | hierarchy comes first (like "name.lib.oh.us").
        
           | abtinf wrote:
           | [countyname].co.[stateabbr].[ctld] is injecting ontological
           | metadata into the data, which is bizarre.
           | 
           | Would be better to just get rid of the "co" layer.
        
             | abtinf wrote:
             | Actually I just looked at the original post, which
             | indicates that both oh.gov and ohio.gov exist. Ohio.gov
             | actually works.
             | 
             | So countyname.ohio.gov would be perfect.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | The city of Medina Ohio, Medina County Ohio, and the
               | Medina City School District have entered the chat.
        
               | abtinf wrote:
               | County: medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | City: medina.medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | From brief googling, the school district is subordinate
               | to the county, not the city, despite its name.
               | 
               | medinacityschools.medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | Or
               | 
               | cityschools.medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | Or
               | 
               | mcc.medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | Or
               | 
               | bees.medina.ohio.gov
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | > medina.medina.ohio.gov
               | 
               | I love this so much.
               | 
               | It makes me sad that Buffalo, NY is in Erie County. That
               | could have been great.
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | What would you do for the City and County of San
               | Francisco? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco
               | 
               | Do they get two separate websites?
        
             | EvanAnderson wrote:
             | There are separate hierarchies for cities (".ci.oh.us",
             | school districts (".k12.oh.us"), public libraries
             | (".lib.oh.us"), and probably others I'm not aware of. It
             | seems like there could be name collisions between those
             | different entities that would necessitate the additional
             | layer.
             | 
             | Edit:
             | 
             | Per my parent comment I screwed this up and misremembered
             | the hierarchies. The locality name comes first for
             | localities, so you'd be looking at things like:
             | 
             | ci.medina.oh.us - City of Medina
             | 
             | co.medina.oh.us - County of Medina
             | 
             | medina.k12.oh.us - The Medina City School District
             | 
             | medina.lib.oh.us - The Medina County District Library
        
               | abtinf wrote:
               | So far as I am aware, every US state is split into
               | counties, and most entities (cities, districts, etc)
               | exist within counties.
               | 
               | Maybe there should be a "falsehoods programmers believe
               | about government structure" article, but I can think of
               | very few exceptions.
               | 
               | "cleveland.cuyahoga.ohio.gov" seems like a logically
               | guessable domain.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | Oh, I agree. It's logically guessable and the right
               | hierarchy. It'd also never fly. >smile<
               | 
               | > So far as I am aware, every US state is split into
               | counties...
               | 
               | re: falsehoods - Alaska has no counties. Louisiana has
               | "Parishes". Connecticut and Rhode Island have counties
               | but no county governments. Also, see Townships.
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | I'm always a little bit angry that New York calls
               | Townships Towns.
        
               | abtinf wrote:
               | > Connecticut and Rhode Island have counties but no
               | county governments
               | 
               | This breaks my brain.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | And even where everything seems the same on paper,
               | different states can handle things wildly differently.
               | 
               | Some the counties run almost everything except where a
               | large city is, some the county does almost nothing, and
               | everything is tied to whatever the biggest town is.
        
               | mistrial9 wrote:
               | All of these are tiny exceptions compared to the vast
               | number of counties within US States. However, reality is
               | made of exceptions! All things considered, it is
               | interesting and important to have local exceptions in a
               | nation IMHO.
        
               | 201984 wrote:
               | Virginia is another edge case here, where cities aren't
               | part of counties and are directly under the state. If you
               | look at a map, you'll see holes in a bunch of counties
               | where the cities are, e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik
               | i/List_of_cities_and_counties_...
        
               | saalweachter wrote:
               | New York spans five counties, which lack county
               | governments, instead having borough governments
               | subordinate to the city government.
               | 
               | Washington, DC is a city which is in neither a state nor
               | a county.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipaliti
               | es_... has a hundred or so cities that span counties.
        
               | mistrial9 wrote:
               | it turns out, cities are among the least well-defined
               | geographical features in local government of the USA.
               | There are many odd and unusual arrangements at the city
               | level. The US Census maintains a collection of more
               | clearly defined entities.
        
             | adrianmonk wrote:
             | You can't get rid of the "co". It's needed for
             | disambiguation.
             | 
             | For example, here in Texas, the City of Dallas is located
             | in Dallas County, but they are separate things. If you want
             | to pay a parking ticket that you got in the City of Dallas,
             | you need to go to the city's web site. If you want to pay
             | your property taxes, you need to go to the county's web
             | site.
             | 
             | Also, the City of Austin is located in Travis County. There
             | is an Austin County, but it's 100 miles (160 km) away. The
             | only connection is that they are both named for Stephen F.
             | Austin.
        
         | belorn wrote:
         | Looking at the list I wold assume that the majority of those
         | are not the "primary" domain, and indeed if I click around
         | randomly, most of them redirect to somewhere else.
        
         | Mixtape wrote:
         | Just my $0.02 as a net/sysadmin for a small municipality in the
         | US:
         | 
         | A big part of why we haven't been able/bothered to migrate to a
         | proper .gov domain boils down to the amount of technical debt
         | we'd need to pay back in the process of doing so. _Everything_
         | that we do uses our non-.gov domain, namely our Office 365
         | connectors. On top of that, end users ' day-to-day
         | communications with the public make use of the existing domain.
         | Modifying that in any capacity could prove disruptive to
         | ongoing communications and potentially render them liable for
         | dropping the ball somewhere. Not to mention that every single
         | internet account ever created by staff using the current domain
         | would need to be migrated or risk being lost forever.
         | 
         | Additionally, we're a small team. Only myself and one other
         | individual would really have the technical knowledge to migrate
         | our infrastructure. The opportunity cost involved would be
         | massive. There are grants available to help us with this, but
         | obtaining/using those can get complicated at times.
         | 
         | Ultimately, the pros just don't outweigh the cons enough to
         | make a huge difference. From a purely academic angle, should we
         | have a .gov TLD? Absolutely. In practice though, the residents
         | and staff are familiar enough with the current one to render it
         | a non-issue. The average non-technical user doesn't "see"
         | "[municipality].[state].gov". They aren't familiar with the
         | concept of a domain hierarchy at all. They just memorize
         | "[municipality_website]" and move on with their day.
        
           | massysett wrote:
           | > They just memorize "[municipality_website]" and move on
           | with their day.
           | 
           | I haven't even done that much, I couldn't tell you offhand
           | the URL for my county government. I always just search in
           | Google, which takes me right to the page I need (roads, solid
           | waste, library, etc.)
        
           | cbozeman wrote:
           | > The average non-technical user doesn't "see"
           | "[municipality].[state].gov". They aren't familiar with the
           | concept of a domain hierarchy at all. They just memorize
           | "[municipality_website]" and move on with their day.
           | 
           | You've just highlighted the problem. This is something every
           | single human being in America should know, and arguably
           | almost the entire world.
           | 
           | This falls directly under the rubric of Basic Computing
           | Knowledge > Basic Internet Knowledge.
           | 
           | Every single time I see someone searching for "microsoft" or
           | "apple" I immediately stop them and tell them, "You've
           | already done most of the work. Microsoft and Apple are
           | commercial entities. Add .com at the end, which is what .com
           | means. Commercial. You're adding extra work for yourself."
           | 
           | Yes, a few people pop off at the mouth at which point I
           | remind them ignorance is of a thing is easily remedied with a
           | little give-a-damn, and saves everyone time and money.
           | 
           | Talk about a fucking miserable failure of education. I'm 44.
           | I expected the generation 20 years younger than me to be
           | impossibly skilled with computers to the point that I
           | wouldn't hope to even match them, much less surpass them.
           | Instead what we got was a world where we dumbed every goddamn
           | thing down so even the most drooling moron can utilize it.
           | 
           | It's pretty disappointing, to put it mildly.
        
             | pests wrote:
             | I think your view on the world might be a little skewed.
             | Every human in the world needs to know how domain names
             | work? What?
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | > The average non-technical user doesn't "see"
           | "[municipality].[state].gov". They aren't familiar with the
           | concept of a domain hierarchy at all. They just memorize
           | "[municipality_website]" and move on with their day.
           | 
           | That mean they can easily be redirected to a phishing
           | website.
        
           | fencepost wrote:
           | You say there _are_ grants available, but given the current
           | environment actually relying on those seems risky - even if
           | you were actually to get the money up front it seems like it
           | might get clawed back.
        
         | plorg wrote:
         | My state has a telecommunications network that was responsible
         | for bringing the Internet to schools and libraries in the 90s.
         | As a result many of these institutions were assigned domain
         | names under ia.us, which the network controls on behalf of the
         | state. The state government gets the state.ia.us subdomain,
         | libraries got their own second-level subdomain under lib.ia.us,
         | schools under k12.ia.us (private schools under another level
         | pvt.k12.ia.us, although their website now lists that as
         | pvtk12.ia.us; my elementary school domain of the first form
         | still resolves), community colleges cc.ia.us and so on. I
         | didn't know better at the time and assumed the whole US was
         | organized that way. In any case no one liked having
         | johnd@excelsior.pvt.k12.ia.us as their email address so most of
         | the schools bought a second .net or .org domain.
         | 
         | I know my high school moved off the ICN T1 service in the early
         | 2000s, but it looks like the domain records are still
         | maintained, as the old address still resolves correctly.
         | 
         | Edit: see EvanAnderson below I didn't realize this was
         | ~formalized as an RFC and actually was relatively standard
         | across states, I assume for the same reasons very few public
         | entities were using these hierarchal addresses as their primary
         | by the time I really got online in the mid 2000s.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | It isn't really that strange, it mirrors how decentralized and
         | fragmented government in the US actually is.
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | It makes it pretty difficult to tell whether your parking
         | ticket is a phishing attempt.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | That hierarchy exists for US states. It just is rarely employed
         | because politicians and administrators don't know how the
         | Internet works and insist on vanity domains that can't be
         | easily discerned from scammers.
        
       | ChrisRR wrote:
       | Give it a week and see how many of them are taken down in the
       | name of "efficiency"
        
         | psd1 wrote:
         | The moment .gov is opened to the public, I'm squatting as many
         | domains as I can grab. Fill your boots! It's raining marks!
        
           | askl wrote:
           | And with your X.gov premium subscription you will get your
           | blue checkmark and are recognized as a real government
           | entity.
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | I use a jokey ".gov" domain for some of my home IT stuff. I
           | always said wistfully that I'd never actually be able to get
           | that domain name. There's a glimmer of hope now that I
           | actually will be able to (albeit I expect my family and I
           | will be sent to a re-education / extermination camp before
           | that happens).
        
         | honeybadger1 wrote:
         | it's a good thing to spring clean, just like it's generally a
         | good choice to change life habits and lose weight. humans get
         | lazy or preoccupied and need to alter the "normal" state they
         | get into that could be unhealthy or not as productive.the
         | government is ran by humans as well, it's no surprise that it's
         | gotten shoddy in some areas and some shuffling and fear has
         | been injected to correct this in government operations and
         | spending.
         | 
         | it won't all be fair or kosher for sure and some of the layoffs
         | were already stated as mistakes publicly and jobs offered back
         | to some(though not very many surprisingly). with that being
         | said, i hope even you see a surprising amount of what has been
         | uncovered is clearly bad?
        
           | ChrisRR wrote:
           | I'm not sure what parts you're referring to as "clearly bad"
           | because so far I haven't seen any examples of that. What
           | actually seems "clearly bad" is the random stripping of
           | funding with little to no research into the knock-on effects.
           | 
           | The only example I've seen that is potentially is a good move
           | is removing the penny from circulation, but of course that
           | has its own pros and cons.
        
             | powerfulusers wrote:
             | i guess elon can't run companies and detect inefficiencies,
             | voters should trust this anon internet user instead!
        
               | kweingar wrote:
               | Elon breaks almost every promise he makes and has
               | constantly been proven wrong on the claims he's made in
               | the past month. It astounds me that someone not connected
               | to him would trust him at all
        
               | ChrisRR wrote:
               | I'm not american, I just genuinely haven't seen any
               | clearly beneficial moves yet
               | 
               | PS. Your green username gives you away
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | Does he actually run companies?
               | 
               | This is a genuine question; he's the CEO of Tesla,
               | SpaceX, xAI, Boring Company, the CTO of Twitter, and the
               | owner of several more companies.
               | 
               | If he's running five or more companies, _and_ trying to
               | run a government department, how involved can he actually
               | be with running any individual one? They can't all be
               | full time jobs.
        
               | ajmurmann wrote:
               | I've heard rumors that at least one of his companies has
               | team whose job is to distract him.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | I haven't been a fan of his since he called the cave
               | divers pedophiles for not using his stupid submarine, but
               | I at least thought he actually did stuff.
               | 
               | But with the recent case where he bragged about being in
               | the top 20 Diablo players in the world, only to find out
               | that he paid people to level his character up for him,
               | makes me think that maybe he doesn't actually _do_
               | anything. I mean, he 's bragging and lying about
               | something that _does not matter_.
               | 
               | No one really cares if the CEO of your spaceship or car
               | company or brain-implant company is good at video games.
               | If it turned out that everyone saw he was bad at Diablo,
               | approximately nothing changes (and potentially people
               | like him even more if he's a good sport about it and
               | laughs it off!), and yet he felt it was important to
               | construct a lie around this so he could brag.
               | 
               | If he's going to brag about a completely insignificant
               | false accomplishment, why should I assume that he's going
               | to tell the truth for stuff that people would actually
               | care about? At this point, I'm erring on the side of
               | "Musk doesn't do anything outside of providing initial
               | funding".
               | 
               | Maybe I'm wrong, that's certainly possible, but he really
               | killed a lot of his credibility.
        
             | honeybadger1 wrote:
             | well, im a tech bro american living in miami, from poor
             | alabama to a bigger-city life and mid-income from basically
             | working in IT infrastructure and datacenter operations.
             | i've worked my way into some kinda something and worth
             | basically through savings and working a lot of hours and
             | also now operating in a leadership role for a $20B
             | privately owned company. i myself know first hand wasteful
             | spending and putting in minimal effort would have never
             | afforded me where i have gotten today. i lived with
             | roommates, bad neighborhoods in altanta, birmingham, all to
             | save money and get by and build myself up to where i needed
             | to be. so my 1st hand experience or anecdotes will highly
             | sway my own viewpoints, so im saying all of this to say i
             | will not be without bias when it comes to accountability
             | and wastefulness.
             | 
             | now with that all being said, when i see contracts like
             | this:
             | 
             | "Telephone Based Mindfulness Training to reduce blood
             | pressure in black-women" $2million(https://www.usaspending.
             | gov/award/CONT_AWD_47PH0825C0001_474...)
             | 
             | "South Sudan Gender Aware Sustainanable Water and
             | Sanitation": $40Million (https://www.usaspending.gov/award/
             | CONT_AWD_72066821C00009_72...)
             | 
             | State Department Spending on Social Media Influencers:$4M
             | (https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-
             | REP...)
             | 
             | Just some random example of currently killed or going to be
             | killed contracts....I feel like all I had to do is have
             | friends in government to basically just suck money off of
             | the people while adding nothing back to society as a result
             | of it. There are hundreds to many thousands of discovered
             | "projects" and funds with these type of numbers. This is a
             | plague in my viewpoint and does nothing to benefit society
             | and move the needle, which engineers so pride themselves in
             | doing...
        
               | kweingar wrote:
               | I'm confused, I thought we were talking about laying off
               | federal employees. Now we're talking about contracts?
        
               | xyst wrote:
               | yeah man, you got yourself out of the salt mines of
               | Alabama. So time to pull up the ladder, right?
               | 
               | > "Telephone Based Mindfulness Training to reduce blood
               | pressure in black-women" $2million(https://www.usaspendin
               | g.gov/award/CONT_AWD_47PH0825C0001_474...)
               | 
               | The link you provided indicates funds were for repair to
               | some bridge at port of entry in TX - "YSLETA, LAND PORT
               | OF ENTRY PAVEMENT REPLACEMENT REPAIRS PROJECT, EL PASO,
               | TX AWARD WAS MADE WITH LOW EMBODIED CARBON FUNDING"
               | 
               | > "South Sudan Gender Aware Sustainanable Water and
               | Sanitation": $40Million (https://www.usaspending.gov/awar
               | d/CONT_AWD_72066821C00009_72...)
               | 
               | "tech bro American" doesn't want clean water for people
               | in Sudan and promotion of basic hygiene practices.
               | 
               | https://dt-global.com/projects/afia-wash/
               | 
               | > State Department Spending on Social Media
               | Influencers:$4M (https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-
               | content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REP...)
               | 
               | There's so much wrong with this source material. It is so
               | biased.
               | 
               | All of these "killed" contracts you deem as wasteful yet
               | turn a blind eye to the _billions_ that public companies
               | pour into stock buybacks. Minimal investment back into
               | the company. This only helps _rich_ cunts and foreign
               | investors.
        
               | honeybadger1 wrote:
               | Why can't both points be true at the same time?
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Because one of the points is false. A priori, you're
               | right: there _could_ be hideous waste in this area. There
               | probably is, even. But you haven 't provided examples of
               | it, and there's no real reason to assume that the wasted
               | effort would be obvious at a glance.
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | Stock buybacks aren't inherently evil or immoral. They
               | are just like issuing dividends, no difference, and are
               | the reason companies exist: to return value to their
               | equity holders for the equity risk they bear.
               | 
               | They could be a sign of a lack of better projects for the
               | company to invest in.
               | 
               | There's likely something to be said about tying stock buy
               | backs to more stock options for employees, but it'd have
               | to be voluntary rather than regulated.
               | 
               | There's definitely something to be said about CEO
               | compensation relative to worker wages. But that's a civil
               | society discussion, not a government regulation one.
               | 
               | And finally capital gains taxes being lower than income
               | taxes is morally reprehensible, but this one will take
               | quite a bit of work to undo without destroying the US
               | economy due to capital flight out of the country once the
               | law changes
        
               | neuronet wrote:
               | There is waste in every org, but what they are doing is
               | the equivalent of deleting files that contain the word
               | "diversity" in them instead of going through and actually
               | reading the files. Because that would take time and
               | patience. It's a low-brow sledgehammer approach and is
               | hurting people inside and outside the organizations in
               | government. E.g., people handling nuclear safety. It's
               | not just throwing out the baby with the bathwater, it is
               | throwing babies, adults, scalding hot bathwater out onto
               | the people that it was supposed to help.
               | 
               | These tech-bro-americans with very little experience with
               | science, biotech, helping other people, international
               | relations, understanding of how institutional knowledge
               | works, or grant funding cycles and NIH works, are
               | dismantling key infrastructure. It's worse than dumb it's
               | much more terrifying.
        
               | ajmurmann wrote:
               | I don't know about the mindfulness thing. But If at least
               | want to hear about it before cancelling it. The others
               | though are positive to me.
               | 
               | Water and sanitation are a HUGE issue in developing
               | countries. It's a main disease vector. It's also very
               | common in many places that women have to practically
               | sneak out of the village at night to go to the bathroom
               | (some field) and get raped. Given anything I've heard
               | about South Sudan I'd need surprised if these issues
               | didn't exist there.
               | 
               | Third one is a positive surprise. Propaganda is clearly
               | of increased importance in this century and we must fight
               | the fight.
        
               | ChrisRR wrote:
               | That's the interesting part about their comment, is that
               | they've instantly assumed that these are pointless
               | contracts based on name alone.
               | 
               | Without looking into it you can't just assume that
               | mindfulness training doesn't have a proven clinical
               | effect on blood pressure, and if it does then it's a good
               | use of money. Preventative healthcare is still healthcare
        
               | jampekka wrote:
               | Helping destitute people get water and sanitation seems
               | like giving to society. It's very typical and likely very
               | effective foreign aid. Probably it got picked here
               | because of "Gender Aware", as if sanitation having
               | gender-related issues is somehow weird.
               | 
               | Your link to the blood pressure reduction project is
               | linking to something totally else, but in general such
               | approaches seem to have some scientific backing.
               | Improving public health seems like benefiting the
               | society.
               | 
               | I wonder how many engineers really benefit society with
               | their work, and how many even actively harm it.
               | 
               | https://bmccardiovascdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10
               | .11...
        
               | adolph wrote:
               | To the degree that those contracts represent something
               | farcical, they are a symptom of an upstream problem in
               | decision-making. Is that upstream problem something that
               | can be addressed? Or is the amount of error [0] within an
               | a margin whereupon eliminating it costs more than dealing
               | with it?
               | 
               | 0. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-
               | of-fra...
        
               | ChrisRR wrote:
               | Blood pressure reduction and water and sanitation both
               | sound like genuine issues though (I don't know what the
               | social media one is about so I couldn't comment.
               | 
               | Do you actually know that those are pointless contracts
               | or are you just making assumptions based on the titles?
        
               | fionaellie wrote:
               | Sometimes viewing the world through your own lens is
               | harmful, as you've learned here from the thoughtful
               | replies to your comments. If you haven't traveled to
               | places like South Sudan, haven't been black, and have no
               | real understanding of the psychology of propaganda, then
               | your responses are reactive and uninformed. It's a less-
               | well-understood version of the "deleting" of USAID -- a
               | tiny financial impact even there, but immense human
               | suffering and loss of trust as a result. It's the lack of
               | understanding of the average citizen that has resulted in
               | this emotional, baseless movement we are witnessing.
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | Let's imagine a Fortune 50 corporation wants to improve
           | efficiency and audit its books for fraud.
           | 
           | Should they:
           | 
           | 1) Hire professional auditors and business consultants to
           | perform the undoubtedly massive review;
           | 
           | 2) Ask the CEO of one of their suppliers to do the review as
           | a fun side gig, let the CEO bring in a tiny team of teenage
           | whiz kids, and give them full god mode access to the
           | company's books and databases and HR systems so they can fire
           | anyone at will and ask questions later?
           | 
           | The approach chosen by America's chief executive is
           | bafflingly #2.
           | 
           | It's worth noting that Trump has no experience managing a
           | large corporation. All his businesses are partnerships with
           | very few employees. He has no competence for this kind of
           | thing, so he's delegating everything to Musk who is the
           | proverbial fox in the hen house, shutting down regulators who
           | affect his own businesses.
        
             | honeybadger1 wrote:
             | Being on HN and someone posting a pro-consulting firm post
             | is...rich...
        
               | ChrisRR wrote:
               | Yes. Many times hiring experts is 100% the correct
               | approach. Getting a rando with next to no experience or
               | knowledge of the product to spend an hour looking before
               | making sweeping changes isn't
        
               | thesuitonym wrote:
               | Both options are a consulting firm, one just has
               | experience and expertise, the other is DOGE.
        
             | notpushkin wrote:
             | To be honest, I'd choose the door #2 anytime.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | _> Trump has no experience managing a large corporation_
             | 
             | And the little experience he has is of repeated
             | bankruptcies and dodgy dealings, saved only by his
             | political adventures (which now bankroll his Mar A Lago
             | resort with public money).
        
         | belorn wrote:
         | The wast majority of those domains are either redirects or do
         | not resolve at all, which is what I got when randomly testing
         | them. I would expect that many of them are also be parked at
         | dns service companies.
         | 
         | They could apply some efficiency but it would be terrible in
         | term of cost savings. There doesn't seem to be a registration
         | costs (at least not that I can find). DNS service companies
         | might take a $0-50 fee per year per domain? It is a very small
         | number in a very large budget for a government entity.
        
       | trallnag wrote:
       | Are there government domains in the USA that don't live under
       | ".gov" or ".mil" top-level domains? In Germany it is all over the
       | place. For example the official website for federal elections is
       | "bundeswahlleiter.de" and "bundeswahlleiterin.de" depending on
       | whether the election manager is male or female.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | Yes, plenty, even for the federal government. There's nothing
         | that compels government entities to use .gov.
         | 
         | A few I can think of:
         | 
         | https://www.usps.com/
         | 
         | https://www.goarmy.com/
        
           | notfed wrote:
           | "Trust" is a pretty compelling reason.
        
         | psd1 wrote:
         | If DNS were invented by German speakers, then requests would
         | have a field for noun case...
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | Now you have me wondering how the cyclades protocol is
           | different from IP. Presumably the protocol rejects malformed
           | packets even if they would be still parseable, and they would
           | additionally berate them in the reply code.
        
         | croisillon wrote:
         | they could have solved this with a Nigerian tld
         | bundeswahlleitu.ng and then shared it with the other German
         | speaking countries :)
        
           | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
           | bundeswahlleitung.de would be fine
        
         | sethaurus wrote:
         | There's a quite comprehensive list of them here:
         | 
         | https://github.com/GSA/govt-urls
        
       | pknerd wrote:
       | The title should mention that it is for the US only.
        
         | mbb70 wrote:
         | The United States owns and operates the `.gov` domain, US only
         | is implied.
        
         | bdavbdav wrote:
         | No one else uses the gov TLD. Gov.xx maybe, but that's a
         | different TLD.
        
         | k4rli wrote:
         | classic us defaultism. "the government" and no specifying
         | needed
        
           | BenjiWiebe wrote:
           | This is a predominantly US site, run by a US business.
           | There's other nationalities on here, which is great, but it's
           | going to be US-centric.
        
           | DaSHacka wrote:
           | Feel free to take it up with ICANN.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | At the time .gov was defined, the entire DNS system was a US
           | military project on the ARPA-Internet. It was neither global
           | nor publicly accessible at the time.
        
           | whalesalad wrote:
           | well we literally invented the internet, so...
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Wild that there hasn't been some sort of standardization yet.
       | 
       | Current:
       | 
       | - http://albanycountywy.gov
       | 
       | - http://albanyga.gov
       | 
       | - http://albanyla.gov
       | 
       | - http://albanyny.gov
       | 
       | - http://albanyoregon.gov
       | 
       | Proposed:
       | 
       | {name}.{county|city|parish...}.{2 letter state abbreviation}.gov
       | 
       | - albany.county.wy.gov
       | 
       | - albany.city.ga.gov
       | 
       | - albany.city.ny.gov
       | 
       | - albany.city.or.gov
       | 
       | Then can easily distinguish between local, regional, state, and
       | federal resources.
       | 
       | Local resource:
       | 
       | - parksandrec.albany.city.ga.gov
       | 
       | Regional resource:
       | 
       | - cad.albany.county.wy.gov
       | 
       | State resource:
       | 
       | - senate.ny.gov
       | 
       | Federal resource:
       | 
       | - fbi.gov
       | 
       | - nsa.gov
       | 
       | As a citizen, would make it very easy to find what you are
       | looking for. Plus the added benefit of trust with .gov. Reduces
       | the risk of our vulnerable citizens (elderly) getting phished.
        
         | acc_297 wrote:
         | https://xkcd.com/927/
        
         | xaldir wrote:
         | Hard to standardize after decades of use. Each of these are
         | well known to the public, referenced everywhere. Changing this
         | would be painful and the benefice is not evident.
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | Why can't those sites just use a 301 or 308 and just change
           | material going forward
        
             | mattl wrote:
             | Email, non-web content, 30 years of usage..
        
         | duped wrote:
         | What do you do about Springfield Township(1) and Springfield
         | Township(2)?
         | 
         | (1)
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Township,_Burlingt...
         | 
         | (2)
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Township,_Union_Co...
         | 
         | Point being that government is messy and exists to cover _all_
         | cases, not the common case.
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | Them having their own nearly random URLs that doesn't
           | differentiate them is not a better solution.
        
             | duped wrote:
             | I don't think they're "nearly random", they're just
             | inconsistent. And it's a better solution because it works
             | today and doesn't require a central authority to manage
             | (and when you're talking about the tens of thousands of
             | distinct government bodies in the country that central
             | management overhead is the thing to optimize)
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | If the problem is inconsistency, and you want to fix that,
             | you'd need to propose a solution that can be consistent,
             | otherwise you still have the same problem.
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | springfield.burlington.nj.us and springfield.union.nj.us
           | something like that
           | 
           | Note that Burlington County already has
           | 
           | http://co.burlington.nj.us/
        
         | arionhardison wrote:
         | I took a shot at standardizing just a health domain:
         | <city>.<state/district>.<country>.medicare.dev. example:
         | Medicaid.dev -> https://marina-del-rey.ca.us.medicaid.dev/
         | 
         | Medicare diff so                 - https://samhsa.medicare.dev/
         | - https://phm.medicare.dev/            - ...
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | I can tell you don't work in the government because you are
         | surprised at the notion of a federated state lacking unity.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | ok but .. no.. humans fight to the death over authority.. there
         | is a tension between expansion and structural consistency..
         | physics has concepts of entropy! .. creative assertion: a
         | growing system will never be completely in sync with itself.
         | 
         | Reading the other comments, you can see how much influence
         | "engineering" and "orthogonal design" actually have.. not much.
         | 
         | Perfect librarianship of living entities has benefits, but
         | overall seems unrealistic IMHO.
        
       | amanda99 wrote:
       | Here is an interesting diff:
       | 
       | https://github.com/cisagov/dotgov-data/compare/57e66bcb0fccc...
        
         | beams_of_light wrote:
         | dei.gov redirects to waste.gov. It's a PHP site with only a
         | password entry form.
        
           | ffgh wrote:
           | WordPress nevertheless.
        
             | iAMkenough wrote:
             | whitehouse.gov is also WordPress
        
       | LorenDB wrote:
       | I was quite confused why the government would create an entire
       | site telling people to stop consuming manga. I mean, I personally
       | don't care for manga/anime stuff, but really?
       | 
       | Turns out it's just a website for Quitman, GA.
       | https://quitmanga.gov
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | We know at least one New Hampshire politician really wasn't a
         | fan.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickolas_Levasseur
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | They are lucky it isn't quitmaga.gov.
        
           | rcpt wrote:
           | Hopefully there's a Dem leader in Georgia who will jump in on
           | the map changing game for this domain
        
         | Slump wrote:
         | This brought out an audible chuckle from me. Definitely
         | stealing this and sharing this site with a few co-workers who
         | are heavily into manga/anime. Thanks for the laugh.
        
           | xmichael909 wrote:
           | Yup, I've already given credit to DOGE and Musk for their
           | amazing costs saving. Can you believe what DOGE found, the
           | government has a website dedicated to getting people to Quit
           | watching Manga! Look at this insanity, Musk is just
           | incredible. https://www.quitmanga.gov
        
             | rcpt wrote:
             | You really can't use sarcasm around that topic. There seems
             | to be no limit to what their supporters will fall for.
        
               | cheema33 wrote:
               | > You really can't use sarcasm around that topic.
               | 
               | I have often wondered why that is. Why is the sarcasm bit
               | turned off for most conservatives? Similarly their humor
               | bit is quite off as well. There aren't many successful
               | conservative comedians either.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | The Pen Island Effect [0] is so strong I read the comment to
         | mean that the writer was happy it was not the whole of
         | government but a only particular town in Georgia was against
         | Japanese comic books.
         | 
         | Some days I wonder if DNS was a colossal mistake. I have plenty
         | of room for remembering numbers now that phones are dead.
         | (Ignoring the ever looming never quite here ipv6.)
         | 
         | 0. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14343390
        
           | LorenDB wrote:
           | > The Pen Island Effect [0] is so strong I read the comment
           | to mean that the writer was happy it was not the whole of
           | government but a only particular town in Georgia was against
           | Japanese comic books.
           | 
           | LOL, no. Like I said, I personally don't care for manga/anime
           | but I have nothing against others enjoying it.
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | My apologies, I didn't mean to claim you supported the town
             | of Quitman's online jeremiad, but an appreciation that the
             | effort was limited to one municipality.
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | My favorite is handynasty.net which is a great schezuan place
           | here in philadelphia and totally not Handy Nasty.net
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | The ultimate remains that great pre-Stack Exchange site,
             | expertsexchange.com. They had to rebrand to add hyphens.
        
               | sparky_z wrote:
               | My favorite (maybe apocryphal) has always been the
               | Italian division of PowerGen.
               | 
               | powergenitalia.com
        
               | miki123211 wrote:
               | There was also childrenswear, therapist, speedofart,
               | molestation, cumstore, lesbocages, teacherstalking, and a
               | few others I no longer remember.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | _> Pen Island Effect_
           | 
           | In my days it was referred to as expertsexchange...
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | Someone needs some pocket cash I guess.
        
         | addandsubtract wrote:
         | xD.gov
        
         | 38 wrote:
         | groan
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | If only DNS could be namespaced..., eg quitman.ga.gov
         | 
         | Only a marginal improvement though
        
           | dpedu wrote:
           | Isn't delegating a zone pretty much the same concept in DNS?
           | Or am I missing sarcasm here?
        
             | switch007 wrote:
             | Yeah was sarcasm as it seems to be a really obvious thing
             | to do.
             | 
             | We do it in the UK with <councilname>.gov.uk
             | 
             | (Not sure if it's actual delegation or just A records
             | though)
        
               | nativeit wrote:
               | We also do it in the US, although I feel like it was more
               | common 20-years ago than it is now. For example, here in
               | North Carolina, local school systems are typically
               | "https://[county name]schools.k12.nc.us"
        
               | miki123211 wrote:
               | You still have the "email can't get to Essex or Sussex"
               | problem though.
        
             | paulddraper wrote:
             | Sarcasm.
             | 
             | People get confused (particularly in the US) if they are
             | always used to x.y.
        
               | ChadNauseam wrote:
               | I like fully qualifying domain names (like x.y. in your
               | example) and it's funny how many sites break when you do
               | this
        
           | jjmarr wrote:
           | It is. As an example:
           | 
           | https://sos.ga.gov/
           | 
           | In practice, people get confused by that.
        
         | mrkramer wrote:
         | I first thought it was quitmaga.gov
         | 
         | As an insider revolt against Musk's shenanigans. lol
        
       | Eikon wrote:
       | Seems like this is missing quite a few :)
       | https://www.merklemap.com/search?query=*.gov&page=0
       | 
       | Exported to use the same viewer as the other list:
       | 
       | https://flatgithub.com/barre/all_dot_gov_domains?filename=al...
        
         | thrdbndndn wrote:
         | The list in your link includes all the subdomains, so I can't
         | really tell if it's more complete than OP's list.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | Many of those URLs could use subdomains, especially the state
       | level ones.
        
       | m-hodges wrote:
       | For a few years I've been operating the EveryDotGov bot; formerly
       | on Twitter, formerly on Mastodon, now on BlueSky:
       | https://bsky.app/profile/everydotgov.bsky.social
        
         | mattl wrote:
         | Why did you stop posting on Mastodon?
        
           | m-hodges wrote:
           | botsin.space shut down.
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | Probably worthwhile to start piping the contents of these into a
       | private archive.
        
         | TZubiri wrote:
         | archive.org should already have this
        
       | ajaygeorge91 wrote:
       | where is doge.gov
        
       | irs wrote:
       | Is there a similar source for .edu ?
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | I have the zonefile for .education but not .edu =(
        
       | jeffmc wrote:
       | Interesting list. I geocoded the data and created an interactive
       | searchable map of the sites -
       | https://ramadda.org/repository/a/dotgov
        
       | atxlurker wrote:
       | This is far from an exhaustive list of the .gov domain. Perhaps
       | it is only the ones managed at the Top level. For instance,
       | Texas.gov is listed here, but none of the subdomains are. For
       | example gov.texas.gov, house.texas.gov, senate.texas.gov,
       | comptroller.texas.gov, etc...
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-21 23:00 UTC)