[HN Gopher] Apple Debuts iPhone 16e
___________________________________________________________________
Apple Debuts iPhone 16e
Author : dm
Score : 307 points
Date : 2025-02-19 16:00 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
| ksec wrote:
| Starting at $599!.
| cubefox wrote:
| With 128 GB storage.
| dagmx wrote:
| Very cool to see a new entry into the modem market. Obviously not
| available for anyone other than Apple, but I'm interested to see
| how it shapes up over time much like their SoC has done.
|
| This has been a long time coming since Apple bought Intels modem
| division several years ago.
|
| I'm also interested to see if it enables cellular in laptops.
| Afaik the limiting factor has been that Qualcomm charge a
| percentage of device rate , which would be exorbitant for a
| laptop. Having it be in house might allow for it now.
| p_ing wrote:
| The modem might be the most interesting thing about this phone.
| They've spent years trying to get one out the door.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I think camera is equally interesting.
|
| Why? It uses a linear zoom like a classic lens design inside
| and embeds an _optical_ 2x zoom lens into a smaller area.
|
| From the press release:
|
| > With an integrated 2x Telephoto, users have the equivalent
| of two cameras in one, and can zoom in with optical quality
| to get closer to the subject and easily frame their shot.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| Isn't this the first time they have an actual zoom lens vs
| multiple lenses and thus CMOS?
|
| Edit: reading below it's still unsure if they actually have
| a lens that moves back & forth to achieve the zoom.
| bayindirh wrote:
| This is the first time they use linear (classic zoom)
| design. The previous one was a 90-degree periscope
| design. From 16 Pro Max specifications:
|
| > 12MP 5x Telephoto: 120 mm, f/2.8 aperture and 20deg
| field of view, 100% Focus Pixels, seven-element lens, 3D
| sensor-shift optical image stabilization and autofocus,
| tetraprism design. 5x optical zoom in, 2x optical zoom
| out; 10x optical zoom range
|
| An image showing what they did earlier:
| https://i.4pda.ws/s/as6yz0d0FvbZniF2YYSyZ3z2HOWajz2.jpg
| stirlo wrote:
| There's absolutely no reason for them to introduce a new
| mechanical camera system. They previously marketed their
| cropping of the center 12MP of their 48MP sensor as 2x
| optical zoom. They will use the same method here.
| kemayo wrote:
| Strongest argument that they didn't is that adding
| something like that is _absolutely_ a thing Apple would
| have talked about at length in the press release. They
| _love_ getting to do extensive "here's something cool
| that 'only Apple could do'" segments. (And we love to
| make fun of them for it.)
| kemayo wrote:
| It's _probably_ the same as the 2x zoom in the iPhone 16
| line. The 1x pictures are a 48MP sensor that does some
| pixel-combining to output a 12MP image. The 2x pictures
| are a crop of 12MP in the center of the sensor, that
| doesn 't do any combining. So it's still "optical", but
| it's lower-quality than the 1x.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I think it's not "zooming with the sensor", but has a
| slim lens stack to enable optical 2x zoom. The whole
| system is also PDAF, so they need the movement anyway.
| kemayo wrote:
| It'd be nifty if they did that, but I'm skeptical they'd
| introduce something like that on their new budget model.
| rescbr wrote:
| I'd say it's a nice platform to test on before bringing
| it to flagship models.
|
| Same thing with the new modem.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| If it were an optical zoom then it would be able to take
| 24MP and 48MP shots like it can in 1x mode, but it is
| limited to 12MP which highly suggests its just a crop.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| No, it's literally a digital crop exactly like the other
| sensors that use 48MP sensors. There's nothing magic
| here. I would be shocked if it's anything different than
| the exact identical camera used in the base iPhone 15,
| quite frankly. The cheaper versions never use the latest
| hardware for the cameras.
| dcreater wrote:
| It just crops to the central 12MP of the image sensor. It's
| the same camera from the iPhone 15
| ipdashc wrote:
| > I'm also interested to see if it enables cellular in laptops
|
| Are WWAN cards not a thing already? I've never looked much into
| them at all, but they do seem to exist, at least (and seem to
| be around $20-$50 and plug into M.2 slots)
| p_ing wrote:
| MacBooks do not have an M.2 slot, nor do they have WWAN.
| dagmx wrote:
| Many laptops, including MacBooks, do not have M.2 expansion
| available.
| wtallis wrote:
| And when laptops _do_ have a spare M.2 slot it 's usually
| intended for an SSD only and is not the right kind of M.2
| slot for a cellular (or WiFi) card. And of course, you'd
| need antennas. So the whole laptop needs to be designed
| around accommodating cellular connectivity, with
| significant changes to the internal layout.
| mcculley wrote:
| Maybe now they can put a cellular modem in a MacBook Pro.
| tempaccount420 wrote:
| I hope it's not just the Pro, I really want it in a Macbook
| _Air_!
| aianus wrote:
| Why doesn't iPhone tethering solve this problem already? Why
| pay for two modems? Genuinely curious.
| drproteus wrote:
| Oh boy, a 6.1 inch screen. "Popular". Ugh. RIP any hopes of a
| small SE refresh.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| Guess it's time to go get one of the flip phones...
| bayindirh wrote:
| I personally will never go back to flexible plastic screens.
| I used them enough in resistive touchscreens era.
| LorenDB wrote:
| I have a Razr. The touchscreen surface isn't glass (there's
| a TPU film on top for protection), but it's a very good
| experience and I rarely think about it not being glass.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I agree that the tech is not at the place where it was 25
| years ago, but I fiddled with plastic screen protectors
| on top of these kinds of screens enough. I still use
| screen protectors, but glass on glass is a much better
| experience for me.
|
| It's a matter of choice, and I'm not judging people who
| like it by any means, but I'm a bit boneheaded on these
| things and don't change my choices that fast. For
| example, I still don't think OLED is suitable for TV
| sized screens and laptops. I know how the color and
| contrast is better, but I don't want to replace my TV or
| laptop every three years because it develops subtle burn-
| ins for example. I come from CRTs, and can endure a good
| backlit LCD a couple of more years, esp if it has color
| temperature adaptive backlight.
| jmkni wrote:
| I've gotten so used to my 13 mini that anything bigger just
| feels _too big_
|
| Hoping against hope that Apple brings back that size/form
| factor someday so clinging on to my 13 mini until that day
| comes...
| afavour wrote:
| I eventually upgraded my 13 mini and I still miss it. Still
| irritates me that I can't swipe down from the top of the
| screen with a one handed gesture.
| dudefeliciano wrote:
| this was literally the only reason i wanted to buy a SE revamp
| user3939382 wrote:
| Even the SE was a little bigger than the 4S screen I really
| miss. Combined with the angled sides it was the last phone I
| could comfortably operate with one hand.
| baq wrote:
| They need that screen so they can fit a reasonable battery
| underneath... an unfortunate tradeoff
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| 13 mini battery life must be sufficient for most people.
| There are chargers everywhere now.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Seriously? They could just make the battery a bit thicker, it
| wouldn't even change the overall shape in a really
| perceptible way.
| sampton wrote:
| I always hear people on hn asking for smaller screen. Apple
| actually made a small 12. It was the worst selling phone in the
| lineup.
| maelito wrote:
| Not only on HN, everywhere around me. It has to do with
| country trends I guess. In France, so many people want small
| phones. They just cannot buy them anymore, they're not
| produced.
| bombcar wrote:
| Apple should just start a preorder site for a small iPhone
| 17 and wait until enough are collected to make it.
|
| (Or do what I always thought they should do and have a
| small iPhone and a normal sized one with identical
| internals, only the case, battery, and screen would be
| different.)
| boxed wrote:
| The worst selling iPhone can still be a larger business than
| 50%+ of all android phones.
| maelito wrote:
| Came to the comments to see just this : how small is it ? On
| this huge page there is no mention of the size.
|
| Size matters for me : I'm looking for a compact Android phone,
| there is none now. Something close to the iPhone 12 mini.
| ehsankia wrote:
| I feel like these comments complaining about modern screen
| sizes don't consider that Bezels have shrunk a ton since.
|
| Both SE 2020 and 2022 had a body size of 138.4mm x 67.3mm,
| which gives a diagonal of 153.9mm or 6.1 inches.
|
| The new iPhone 16e has a body of 146.7mm x 71.5mm, with a
| diagonal of 163.2mm, or 6.4 inches. So only 5% bigger.
| arp242 wrote:
| My hands are too small to comfortably use the screen. Bezel
| size don't matter.
|
| How about accepting that we know what we want and that we
| don't need you you to lecture us on our preferences?
| Seriously, what's wrong with you? "Oh you complained about
| your preference on X, but let me educate you about your
| preferences are wrong?"
| calebm wrote:
| Back in my day, new advancements meant smaller phones.
| Hopefully we get back there soon. Till then, I'm sticking with
| my iPhone 12 mini.
| newsclues wrote:
| I have only ever used Apple budget smartphones (5C and SE
| models), but I want/need lidar for mapping my house for WiFi
| networks.
|
| Not sure if I want to upgrade.
| nolroz wrote:
| I would love a lidar system I could use to map my house with.
| What are you hoping to do with WiFi on top of that? Optimal
| device placement?
| newsclues wrote:
| Yeah, have a Ubiquiti home network, and want to optimize
| placement of my access points (before I install mounts on the
| walls/ceiling) and also would like to use it to compare
| different APs to see if an upgrade makes sense vs installing
| an extra AP for the garage that doesn't get good signal.
| dylan604 wrote:
| So you want a feature in a device that you're going to use
| for a single purpose one time? How many times do you need
| to map your house once you have the map? There's gotta be a
| better single use device for purpose rather than having it
| limit your options for a non-single purpose device.
| newsclues wrote:
| Yes.
| Tomte wrote:
| Pro: action button
|
| Con(?): 60 Hz
|
| And the price hike again shows that Apple is the master of the
| "for just a few hundred dollars more, you can get..." upsell to
| bigger iPhones.
| jsheard wrote:
| 60hz is really taking the piss at this point, if they must
| reserve 120hz for the Pro line then the least they could do is
| use 90hz further down the stack.
| llm_nerd wrote:
| I have a Pro that I've set to only use 60 FPS (Accessibility
| / Motion / Limit Frame Rate). 120 FPS is ever so slightly
| smoother, but I would rather have the slightly better battery
| life disabling it.
|
| Among mainstream users, people just don't care and this isn't
| remotely the differentiator people seem to hold it as.
| Similar to the micro bezel fetish, these are spec-chaser
| points that certain manufacturers convince people are must
| haves. But they really aren't.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| > Among mainstream users, people just don't care and this
| isn't remotely the differentiator people seem to hold it
| as.
|
| I agree that most users don't consciously care, but I think
| its definitely possible that it influences how fast the
| phone feels and could influence purchases if you are
| testing them side-by-side in a store. There is some
| anecdotal evidence to that in the fact that Google does the
| extremely scummy thing of locking their non-pro Pixels to
| 60Hz when in demo mode regardless of the refresh rate
| setting chosen in the OS.
| jayrot wrote:
| The obvious problem with that is that 90hz is just as good as
| 120hz for 95% of people. (60hz is as good as 90hz for
| probably 70%)
| laweijfmvo wrote:
| I had an iPhone 13 Pro before downgrading to the 13 Mini.
| One of the reasons I bought the Pro was for the higher
| refresh screen, and while it's obviously noticeable when
| using it, it's not something I've ever missed even once.
| selectodude wrote:
| I have the opposite issue - dragging my finger across a
| 60hz screen is immediately noticeable. I'm jealous of
| you.
| throitallaway wrote:
| Apple is the king us using old kit and marketing it as
| innovative. On the flip side, 26 hours of video playback on
| battery is crazy long, and 60Hz is a big contributor to that.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| 60hz refresh is totally fine, there's no reason to be salty
| about it.
| cptcobalt wrote:
| Yeah, at this market tier 60Hz is a perfectly usable
| target.
| layer8 wrote:
| According to several supply-chain rumors, the iPhone 17
| models will all have 120 Hz.
| apt-apt-apt-apt wrote:
| 60hz makes this obsolete on arrival IMO
| asdff wrote:
| Do people really need a 60hz display? Most people are just
| messaging and scrolling tiktok with their phone.
| bayindirh wrote:
| This device looks like a technology testing mule for apple, and
| with that price point it's guaranteed to sell boatloads.
|
| I think being able to cram this amount of new tech (a new camera,
| a new modem) for a new device is good for apple. I believe this
| will play out well, and this tech will graduate the so-called
| flagships in a couple of years.
| lapcat wrote:
| iPhone SE: $429, 4.7-inch display, 5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29, 5.09
| ounces
|
| iPhone 16e: $599, 6.1-inch display, 5.78 x 2.82 x 0.31, 5.88
| ounces
|
| This is a major downgrade in every way for people who want the
| smallest possible iPhone.
| ctoth wrote:
| Not to mention the damn TouchID. So much better of an
| experience on my old SE than on my 15 pro with FaceID.
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| I would rather at this point have a watch with good cellular
| comms, that could use bluetooth for calls and let me tether a
| tablet for web use.
|
| But I have to say, I was more annoyed by the loss of touch ID
| than by the increase in screen size. While I like the smallest
| possible iPhone, my SE has not been very nice to use lately.
| Developers aren't testing their sites/apps on that screen size,
| and many sites/apps are getting really janky when run on a
| screen that small.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| However, as the iPhone 12 and 13 mini demonstrated, the people
| who like small phones are a very vocal but extremely small
| minority (only 3% of US sales were the mini). They both sold so
| badly, it serves as a reality check for how small voices on the
| internet are compared to the market.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I feel like the 12 mini was objectively a subpar device, and
| maybe if 13 mini had come out first (after a long hiatus of
| not having smaller phones), then there might have been a
| chance. But probably not.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| You're assuming most people even read the spec sheet and
| knew it was inferior on paper. I assure you, most did not.
| Most just looked at it, decided "too small," and that's
| about it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I meant the people who wanted a small phone experienced
| it, and were disappointed, and it gained a bad
| reputation, potentially turning off others who also
| wanted a small phone.
|
| There was a big gap (5+ years?) between the small iPhone
| SE and the 12 mini, so a lot of people jumping on 12 mini
| and being disappointed by the small phone may have
| resulted in disappointing sales of 13 mini.
|
| But I'm sure the phone sellers know what they are doing,
| it just would have been nice to even be able to still buy
| a 13 mini. None of the new phones have any capabilities I
| care about.
|
| Edit to respond to below:
|
| I am not assuming that, I am actually assuming the
| opposite. There may have been pent up demand due to the
| long gap between the small iPhone SE and 12 mini, so when
| the 12 mini came out and disappointed, people who had
| been waiting to upgrade chose a non mini reducing the
| total number of minis sold. And then the 13 mini was
| discontinued by the time those people needed a new phone.
|
| But again, probably wishful thinking on my part.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| You're assuming that people upgrade phones every year,
| which (again) most do not. A badly received 12 mini would
| have almost no broad market effect on the sales of the 13
| mini. Not unless most iPhone sales are by word of mouth.
| jeffbee wrote:
| In what universe would you leave that market share on the
| table?
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| If they're going to buy a regular iPhone for $100 more
| anyway, and the likelihood they buy a small Android instead
| is near zero (what small Android?), then yes, I absolutely
| would say to cut it and simplify the engineering,
| manufacturing, and checkout process.
|
| If you start serving every 4% of needs in each product
| category, watch the portfolio balloon to catastrophic
| proportions. The very principle of the thing is anti-Apple;
| they would quickly become Samsung, complete with Samsung
| level naming schemes and weird decision making. Next thing
| you know, we'll have the Apple Vacuum Cleaner, the Apple
| Door Lock, the Apple Ice Cream Scoop, the Apple Exterior
| Camera, and so on.
| jeffbee wrote:
| This slippery slope argument doesn't click for me. They
| obviously perceive the value of segmenting the market by
| device size. I'm just asking for the smaller size to be
| actually small.
| lapcat wrote:
| This is all relative. In absolute terms, the iPhone SE alone
| would be one of the most successful products in the world,
| more successful than the original iPhone back in the day.
|
| iPhone as a category is so massive now that small percentages
| are still millions of people.
|
| It's kind of sad that Apple itself has become so huge,
| because now the company ignores people it used to care about.
| jmkni wrote:
| I guess a lot of people don't really have a computer or
| laptop anymore, their phone _is_ their computer which they
| use for everything, so it makes sense to want as big a screen
| as possible.
|
| For the kinds of people who frequent HN, I'd wager we all
| _do_ have a computer, heck there 's probably a laptop in your
| backpack right now, so it makes sense to have a smaller phone
| for 'phone stuff' and whip out your laptop to do anything
| more involved.
|
| Still though, surely Apple made money from the mini, even 3%
| of iPhone sales is a lot of phone sales! I wish they would
| keep it around.
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| Does anyone know how much of the razr 40/50 sold in millions?
| crazygringo wrote:
| It's basically 6% longer, wider, and thicker.
|
| I like small phones. 6% doesn't seem all that different from
| the current SE.
|
| The fact that all that space seems to be going to battery life
| does seem nice...
| kylec wrote:
| Those 6% increases compound together though to create
| something with 20% more volume, that is pretty substantial
| crazygringo wrote:
| I've never heard anybody complain about _volume_. Just
| width /height.
|
| I mean, isn't everyone here on HN always making fun of
| Apple's supposedly unnecessary obsession with thinness? Now
| it's a teensy bit thicker.
| kylec wrote:
| You've never heard of people complaining about how "big"
| phones are, and wishing for a "smaller" phone? How would
| you measure "big" and "smaller" other than volume?
| crazygringo wrote:
| Volume would be a terrible metric for phones.
|
| You don't make a phone half as tall and twice as thick
| and claim it's the same size...
| lapcat wrote:
| The 2D surface area, which affects holding and pocketing,
| is 13% larger.
|
| Weight also matters.
|
| I honestly still prefer the form factor of the iPhone
| 3GS. (I have an old one in a drawer for comparison.) 4.8
| ounces, 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.48 with a rounded back. The
| thickness wasn't a problem.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| Well it's 11% longer, wider, and thicker than the 13 mini,
| which has better everything than the SE.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| The SE is not the smallest possible modern iPhone, just the
| smallest screen. The 13 mini has a larger screen but is
| physically smaller.
| lapcat wrote:
| The 13 mini was discontinued in 2023.
|
| The smallest possible iPhone ever was possibly the original
| iPhone.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| You can still buy a pristine 13 mini on the secondary
| market. The original iPhone is not a viable device today,
| but the 13 mini is better across every tech axis (better
| processor, battery life, screen, camera, ...) than the SE
| and is worth comparing to.
| lapcat wrote:
| This is missing the point. I have a 3rd gen SE and am not
| currently in the market for a new phone. The issue is
| that Apple is no longer selling anything to people who
| want a small iPhone. Moreover, the used market will dry
| up eventually, and iOS support will be dropped even
| sooner.
| officeplant wrote:
| >but the 13 mini is better across every tech axis (better
| processor, battery life, screen, camera, ...) than the SE
| and is worth comparing to.
|
| They have the exact same A15 Bionic, with the same 4GB of
| memory. The 13 mini has an extra 400maH of battery.
|
| I've had both and the iPhone SE (2022) lasted longer in
| my personal use. (sold the 13 in an antiapple mood only
| to come back and get an SE later)
| kemayo wrote:
| Let's see... it's replacing the SE, which is no longer on Apple's
| website. It's more expensive than the SE, at $599 vs $429. It's a
| pretty substantial hardware upgrade over the SE, including
| something like 75% more battery life by Apple's numbers, but it's
| also noticeably bigger.
|
| Apple's own comparison tool is useful:
| https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16e,i...
| SunlitCat wrote:
| The price hike is the major turn off point. Even as a non Apple
| person I was on the verge of getting the new "SE" if it's in
| the price range of the old SE line up.
|
| But not for 600 USD, that's a bit too much.
| philistine wrote:
| The _budget_ iPhone is 900$ CAD. Let that sink in.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Breaking news: Apple makes premium products
| asdff wrote:
| The market for a cheaper iphone like this has always been
| just buying a 4 year old phone for like $0-small few hundred
| from your carrier. Makes no sense for apple to push a new
| product in this segment when their own supply eats it. And
| all they really offer in the se is a new old iphone anyhow
| making use of old components they have spare inventory
| available or on order from their vendors remaining supply
| lines.
| seec wrote:
| You are missing the point.
|
| These types of "budget" phones that Apple does are for
| people who can't/won't buy the flagship (because too
| expensive) but wouldn't buy something second-hand either.
|
| There are a LOT of people like that. It is not rational at
| all; they would rather buy something shittier for their
| money than get more value. My grandparents are like that.
|
| To buy in the second-hand market you need to have some
| knowledge about how phones compare in the first place, even
| if you use a platform that minimizes the risks.
|
| So, it's not the same market at all, and Apple is pushing
| their luck even more with a pricing way too high for what
| is essentially a 3 years old phones at best (the chip makes
| little difference to the typical user of these phones).
| makeitdouble wrote:
| The Pixel 'a' line has been very good at this, the current
| 8a is the best value of the whole Pixel lineup, and it's
| way cheaper than this 16e.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Yeah Apple overcharges. The SE is downright crude by modern
| standards, no ways was it worth $430.
|
| This phone is at least modern, but it's not great value for
| money.
| turtlebits wrote:
| You can easily pick up a used/refurb iPhone 15 for ~$500.
| modeless wrote:
| Thank you. This press release seems specifically designed to
| discourage this type of comparison.
| happyopossum wrote:
| > but it's also noticeably bigger.
|
| I dunno, the old SE wasn't a mini by any means - this is .3
| inches taller and .2 inches wider, so yes bigger but not like a
| different size class altogether
| apparent wrote:
| This is a lot bigger. IIRC the mini is smaller than the old
| SE, and this is bigger than the mini. It's not a "plus" sized
| iPhone, but that would be skipping up two size classes. It
| has gone from small to regular.
| beretguy wrote:
| Now compare it to 1st Gen SE.
| asdff wrote:
| Easily the nicest form factor phone they ever produced. You
| can reach the entire screen with the thumb in one hand
| without awkwardly flopping the phone onto the thumb in the
| farthest corner. It is smaller than your wallet. The
| battery lasted forever because the screen was small and not
| that bright or nearly so pixel dense.
|
| Too bad the management consultants killed such a
| technology.
| bscphil wrote:
| The SE had a pretty huge bezel though. That's an annoying
| feature of it, but at the same time it means that the screen
| was actually much smaller than the 16e's screen, and
| therefore (depending on how you hold it) easier to use one
| handed, which is what most people who want a small phone are
| looking for.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| You do also get double the storage, double the RAM and a 24
| megapixel camera upgrade.
|
| Traditionally, the amount of RAM in your device is the limiting
| factor that controls how many years of updates you get.
|
| So far, 8 years for the OG iPhone SE is the standing record for
| years of updates.
| doctoboggan wrote:
| Is this a replacement for the "SE" line? It seems similar to the
| previous SE models in that it's cheaper, uses an older body, and
| is released in an off month. The marketing copy in the OP also
| compares it to the older SE phones.
|
| I am guessing that's the end of the small phone line at Apple.
| kemayo wrote:
| Yeah, they took the SE off their website at the same time as
| they announced this.
| js2 wrote:
| > I am guessing that's the end of the small phone line at
| Apple.
|
| That really ended with the 13 mini on which I'm typing this
| comment and that I'll hold onto till it's no longer supported.
| Wistar wrote:
| I have been keeping my 12 Mini in as pristine condition as
| possible. I often keep the phone in my vest pocket and really
| hate the size of ... well ... anything larger than the Mini.
| Best form factor ever for me.
| Angostura wrote:
| Same here. I'm hoping there will be a 19 mini
| f_allwein wrote:
| I recently figured the only way to pull that off would be
| to brand it as ,,iPhone 19 - Steve Jobs edition". Apple,
| feel free to run with it.
| apparent wrote:
| It wouldn't be crazy for them to offer a mini only every
| several generations. If the problem is that there isn't
| enough demand to justify design and tooling, it would make
| sense to let demand grow for 5-6 years, then release a new
| mini that all small phone lovers will buy.
| jcpham2 wrote:
| I feel you're correct because this is the iPhone that appeals
| to me, and no new iPhone ever appeals to me.
| whycome wrote:
| It's funny that the marketing for this is about introducing a
| new member of the family. But it doesn't also mention that one
| other member has been disowned/excommunicated
| wtallis wrote:
| From a marketing perspective, it's probably ancient history.
| They've had three rounds of iPhone launches between now and
| the launch of the 13 mini, and the 13 mini was discontinued a
| year and a half ago. Even if the 16e _had_ been a mini-sized
| phone (or available in this size and a mini size), it would
| have been weird for marketing to highlight that market
| segment and draw attention to that 1.5-year absence.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I think they are referring to today's discontinuation of
| the 3rd gen iPhone SE, since the 16e is so different from
| the previous SE phones.
| noworriesnate wrote:
| It's like when your employer says "we're all one big family"
| and then fires people. Makes you wonder what their families
| are like...
|
| "Is Uncle Dave coming this Thanksgiving?"
|
| "No, he was adopted by a competing family. We're suing."
| Tagbert wrote:
| Yes, this replaces the SE which was not really that small. The
| SE screen was small but the case not so small. This 16e is less
| that 0.25 inches bigger in the diagonal.
| Retr0id wrote:
| The C1 is (fingers crossed) probably going to be a big
| improvement on the security front, since historically, cellular
| modems have been chock full of remotely exploitable security
| flaws.
|
| That said, if this is their "first gen" then there could be
| teething issues.
| HelloUsername wrote:
| Video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mFuyX1XgJFg
| robertoandred wrote:
| So goes the end of the mobile device, now all that's sold are
| phablets.
| dzonga wrote:
| Apple has become a behemoth in chip design. I'm guessing Qualcomm
| won't be taxing them anymore since they're making their own
| modems
| jmm5 wrote:
| Qualcomm still owns the patents.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| The death of Touch ID. Also huge.
| wpm wrote:
| Yup, sad news.
|
| Anyone who disagrees should try teaching an older relative with
| less than youthful fine motor control how to use a FaceID
| equipped iPhone.
| CharlesW wrote:
| FWIW: Face ID is optional, and the iOS passcode buttons are
| very accessible.
| kemayo wrote:
| Specifically the swipe-up gestures you now need for the
| unlock / home navigations?
|
| (I initially thought you might mean faceid doesn't work if
| you're a bit shaky, but I just tried that and it surprisingly
| doesn't care.)
| frankus wrote:
| I've had the opposite problem: both of my parents' (in their
| 80s) fingerprints have faded to the point that Touch ID no
| longer works reliably.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| That is really interesting to me. I admittedly haven't
| played with it in a while but on previous Android phones
| I've had basically any patch of skin would register and
| work okay with the sensor. I know because I used to rock
| climb a lot which tears up fingerprints so I would register
| things like the backside of my index finger so I could
| unlock the phone while it sits on a table. It was
| definitely finickier than a proper fingerprint but
| preferable to retraining it every couple of days.
| walterbell wrote:
| Touch ID is on the power button of iPad Air. Hopefully it will
| return on iPhone Air.
| layer8 wrote:
| Very unlikely. Also, the Touch ID in the iPad Air (and iPad
| mini) doesn't work quite as well as the round Touch ID
| sensors on the Home buttons, due to the narrower shape and
| the placement. As a power button it's also a bit clunky.
| walterbell wrote:
| _> [rectangle] Touch ID doesn 't work quite as well as the
| round Touch ID_
|
| Still more deterministic than Face ID.
|
| There was also a rumor of in-display Touch ID.
| jamespo wrote:
| No touch to unlock is one of the main things keeping me on
| Android
| switch007 wrote:
| I occasionally use my iPhone 8 Plus and don't immediately
| remember why it feels so nice to use. Then I remember it's the
| touch ID button
| asdff wrote:
| Nothing like grabbing your phone by the button in your pocket
| and having it unlocked and open before you even lay eyes on it.
| As fast as they advertise faceid being it will never beat the
| fact you can engage touchid as soon as you lay a finger on the
| phone.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| Why are small phones not economical for major flagship phone
| developers? Obviously more expensive phones generate more
| revenue, but the reduced bill of materials on smaller phones
| should allow a better profit margin?
|
| Mostly I just want a phone that is comfortable in my hands.
| noja wrote:
| Because people expected to have lower prices with smaller
| phones.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Because nobody buys them.
|
| Apple tried with the iPhone 12 mini, and the iPhone 13 mini.
| They were only 5% of phones sold globally, and only _3%_ of
| phones sold in the US.
|
| The desire for small phones is an internet thing, but not
| backed by the market. Take it as a reality check for how
| internet opinions can be mostly irrelevant.
| bob1029 wrote:
| At the scale of Apple, is a specific device configuration
| that 'only' meets the needs of 3% of their market
| economically unviable? Did they build a whole special factory
| just for the slightly smaller device?
| fckgw wrote:
| Not a whole factory but whole other tooling, so yes? The
| chassis is different, the screen is different, the
| mainboard is different, the layout is different, the
| battery is different, I think the camera was also
| different. Only thing shared between the other models was
| the buttons and the lightning port.
|
| It's a huge cost for something that sold (relatively)
| poorly.
| boxed wrote:
| Apple has huge margins, it's not a problem unless you
| think about margins. Making more money is normally good,
| even if the margin is slightly lower.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| If the margin is lower then you make less money not more.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| If the additional revenue is positive, and the margin on
| that additional revenue is positive, you've made more
| money.
| pixl97 wrote:
| More skus is really really expensive quite often. You can
| end up with a low run product that is even more expensive
| than a 'premium' larger/nicer product.
| bombcar wrote:
| The should have designed two phones, normal size and
| small, where the internals are the same and the only
| difference is the case/battery/screen.
| quesera wrote:
| 3% can be "small" in the sense of operationally-
| insignificant/low-ROI, even at Apple's scale, when you
| consider that they only have a handful of models (currently
| five) shipping simultaneously.
|
| Figure _most_ of those 3% would buy a different iPhone
| model if their preference was not available (not Android,
| because even if brand loyalty / ecosystem lock-in wasn't
| so powerful, the Android small-phone options are not
| competitive).
|
| Then figure that 0.5% (generously!) of lost revenue has to
| pay for all the custom tooling, parts, manufacturing lines,
| etc.
|
| ... and it all makes an infernal kind of sense.
|
| I'm still anachronistically appreciating my iPhone SE (Gen
| 1) with a 4" IPS display, Touch ID, Lightning connector,
| and a 3.5mm audio jack. It's great!
|
| Except that I'll need to upgrade from iOS 15 at some point.
| :)
| BuckRogers wrote:
| > The desire for small phones is an internet thing, but not
| backed by the market. Take it as a reality check for how
| internet opinions can be mostly irrelevant.
|
| People have said this for years, but the mini phones were
| never going to be instant day-one hits. It's a self-
| fulfilling prophecy to launch them during Covid, offer them 2
| years, and say no one wants them.
|
| Give them a permanent place in the lineup, treating phones
| like every other very personal device meant for humans.
| Small, medium, and large.
|
| If you do that, and give people time to see exactly why 5.42
| screens are superior to 6.1"+ sizes, then I think the numbers
| will start to change from what we saw with the iPhone 12 mini
| and iPhone 13 mini that were launched when people were less
| on the go than in 100 years.
|
| And no, I don't think a mini SKU can ever beat out the "cheap
| and big" midrange device that the average person is going to
| go for. Those will never be beat because they have perceived
| value. But I would bet in time it comes close or beats the
| "big and expensive" iPhone Pro Max option.
| Someone wrote:
| > but the reduced bill of materials on smaller phones should
| allow a better profit margin?
|
| Is there a significantly reduced bill of materials? At best,
| the correlation between size and cost is very small. Most of
| the costs are in software, manufacturing, etc, not in
| materials.
|
| Also, would there be a better profit margin? I bet customers
| won't want to pay the same for a smaller phone, certainly not
| give that it will have lower battery life (power usage will, at
| best, go up with screen area, and battery volume will go up
| faster than phone volume because parts such as CPUs will not be
| smaller in smaller phones)
| blibble wrote:
| can I get it without the AI slop?
| f6v wrote:
| Just move to the EU.
| kemayo wrote:
| You can turn it off, still. (For now?)
| nozzlegear wrote:
| Funny, I'm actually considering buying this specifically
| because it comes with Apple Intelligence, and I'm someone who
| usually avoids AI slop. I guess I just like Apple's particular
| flavor of AI slop since I use it with the mail and iMessage
| apps on my Mac all the time.
| mperham wrote:
| Whoa, shipping their own baseband modem for the first time,
| skipping the Qualcomm tax. That's huge, even for Apple.
| BrandonSmith wrote:
| I'm sure Apple still pays patent licensing fees to Qualcomm
| even if Apple is now manufacturing their own modem.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| In the past, Qualcomm was infamous for high licensing fees.
|
| However, part of the process of creating an open industry
| standard like 4G/5G is getting a legally binding commitment
| from the patent holders to license standards essential
| patents to all takers on "reasonable" terms.
|
| > If the patent holder refuses upon request to license a
| patent that has become essential to a standard, then the
| standard-setting organization must exclude that technology.
|
| https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_non-
| discrimina...
|
| So Qualcomm is still entitled to some money, but not nearly
| as much as they made back when there was no legal restriction
| on what they could demand.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| I'm interested to see how these perform at the edge of
| reception, which still is a massive drain. Before I had an
| iPhone with satellite reception, turning on airplane mode when
| hiking was essential for battery life.
|
| My current iPhone (and I had to check which one I have...)
| actually is much more sticky to satellite. It wont switch back
| to cellular immediately.
| fionaellie wrote:
| Thank you for knowing how to spell "whoa".
| skyyler wrote:
| Until today I thought they were interchangeable spellings.
|
| I'm curious, is "woah" incorrect? If so, why?
| quesera wrote:
| Even as the instinctive prescriptivist that I am, I can't
| possibly get get worked up about permutations on
| onomatopoeia.
| swores wrote:
| Not even something like "woe" for woah, or "hmf" for
| hmph? :P
| quesera wrote:
| You raise good points. :)
|
| Actually I like "hmf" despite my usual distaste for the
| dilution of "ph" to "f". The "ph" in "hmph" seems
| incidental, so it does not trigger me, I guess!
|
| There is a highway sign somewhere on I-95 for "Fenix
| Ave", which took me a while to realize was a vicious act
| committed by illiterates against "Phoenix Avenue".
| cptcobalt wrote:
| Whoa is just older. https://www.dictionary.com/e/whoa-or-
| woah/
|
| Dictionaries are descriptive of actual use, not
| prescriptive rulings. Both spellings are completely valid,
| the pedantry is incorrect.
| parsimo2010 wrote:
| Apparently the camera is "2 in 1" that does 2x zoom with "optical
| quality" but they never actually say it's true optical zoom. I'm
| guessing that it's just digital zoom with some fancy processing.
| Does anyone know for sure?
| xuki wrote:
| They cropped it out from the center of the 48MP photo. It's the
| same on 16 and 16 Pro.
| tomduncalf wrote:
| It's a 12mp crop of a 48mp sensor, so it's not digital zoom but
| it is a crop. It's just that that crop is still of good
| resolution.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _It 's a 12mp crop of a 48mp sensor, so it's not digital
| zoom but it is a crop._
|
| I'm curious what you think digital zoom is if not cropping.
| Tagbert wrote:
| The distinction between optical and digital zoom get a
| little blurred by this kind of camera setup. No pun
| intended.
| dbtc wrote:
| Nice pun though. It's because when the camera is set to
| record 24 or 12mp photos at default zoom, then you can
| crop the 48mp sensor and still get the same resolution.
| kemayo wrote:
| It's _probably_ the same as the 2x zoom in the iPhone 16 line.
| The 1x pictures are a 48MP sensor that does some pixel-
| combining to output a 12MP image. The 2x pictures are a crop of
| 12MP in the center of the sensor, that doesn 't do any
| combining. So it's still "optical", but it's lower-quality.
| new_vienna wrote:
| It seems that this will cannibalize iPhone 16 sales - it's $200
| cheaper, same form factor and internals, with the only difference
| being the camera, which if you care about you go for the Pro
| model. However, the price makes for a much more appealing upgrade
| for anyone who has an older iPhone
| idontwantthis wrote:
| People love biggest phone for some reason regardless of
| features.
| unshavedyak wrote:
| Hell, i want a smaller phone lol. I love the high end phones,
| i like my iPhone 16 Pro.. but man, this smaller one is
| tempting.
|
| I don't think i'd give up the camera for it though.. but a
| boy can dream.
| pivo wrote:
| I like the bigger phones because of my poor vision and fat
| fingers. Easier to read, easier to type on.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Apple C1 modem versus a tried and true Qualcomm modem seems
| like a big internal difference.
| CharlesW wrote:
| Indeed, this is the most notable aspect about this launch
| from a technology perspective. Apple's been working toward
| eliminating their Qualcomm dependency for nearly as long as
| the iPhone has existed.
| baxtr wrote:
| Apple has no problem with self cannibalization. See the iPod or
| the iPad with keyboard for example.
| walterbell wrote:
| Counterpoint: removing Hypervisor API from iOS 16, ostensibly
| to prevent iPads from cannibalizing MacBooks.
| Hamuko wrote:
| Or MacBooks not having touch screens, or iPads being unable
| to run macOS / macOS apps even if you buy the $350 keyboard
| that gives it the same exact inputs as a MacBook, or iPads
| with modems being unable to place calls.
|
| There's all sorts of limitations that seem less like
| thoughtful design and more like holding back the devices
| just that bit to make you want another device. You can't
| just want an iPad Pro, how will you run desktop apps? You
| can't just want an iPad Mini, how will you call people?
|
| Well, at least the iPads can function as calculators now.
| hot_gril wrote:
| It's funny how iPads are marketed as laptop replacements,
| but everyone with an iPad has a laptop too. Especially
| the Apple fans who tell you it's a laptop replacement.
| walterbell wrote:
| Now that Mac Mini is smaller, it's almost viable as iPad
| sidecar to run MacOS and Linux VMs. The ultimate dongle,
| with "I should be a hypervisor" graffiti.
|
| Pixel Tablet with GrapheneOS has less limitations and
| will soon have Linux VMs, but lacks a keyboard travel
| case, and has been discontinued.
| hot_gril wrote:
| Can also emulate a PC in WASM to run Linux with a huge
| performance hit.
|
| But I'm not even talking about Linux stuff, just basic
| use cases. Like a website somehow doesn't work with the
| iPad/iPhone, even if you forcibly request the desktop
| version. (YouTube creator studio live streaming is one
| example, or random airliners' in-flight video sites.) You
| need to unzip, manipulate, re-zip, and email something.
| Putting stuff on a USB stick for a print shop. Doing
| taxes. Running some Mac/Windows-only software.
| tempaccount420 wrote:
| > Now that Mac Mini is smaller, it's almost viable as
| iPad sidecar
|
| How I wish Apple would work to make this better than the
| current state. Currently it's very ugly (bad scaling,
| weird res, weird bars around screen), high latency, needs
| some configuration...
|
| Just let me plug in a cable and it should immediately
| become a display. (with video over DP?)
| hot_gril wrote:
| I legitimately don't remember if iPads have USB-C or
| Lightning or both at this point, but theoretically either
| should've worked for wired video
| walterbell wrote:
| Cheap HDMI to USB-c adapter was relatively painless with
| Orion app for video display on iPad Air/Pro.
| jamiedumont wrote:
| I bought a 16 Pro after the camera on my previous iPhone
| stopped working. Despite being a camera-led purchase - and I do
| care about the camera on my phone - I would have bought this
| 16e in a heartbeat over the Pro.
| dehrmann wrote:
| If the only things left to compete on are the camera and frame
| construction, maybe it's time for the non-pro line to go away.
| jasode wrote:
| _> , with the only difference being the camera, which if you
| care about you go for the Pro model._
|
| Some people may care a little extra for an _ultrawide lens_ and
| spending more for the cheaper iPhone 16 with 2 lenses of
| regular + ultrawide is enough for that. Don 't have to get the
| more expensive Pro model.
|
| The Pro model adds a _3rd lens_ for optical "true" telephoto
| instead of digitized "fake" telephoto and increases the
| resolution on the ultrawide.
|
| It's also not clear from from the Apple press release if the
| 16e has a macro mode. The regular iPhone 16 (not Pro) has
| macro.
| skyyler wrote:
| Everyone I've talked to would prefer the telephoto over the
| ultrawide for the non-pro models.
|
| But then why would you buy the pro?
| biztos wrote:
| According to the Compare site[0] it does not have macro mode.
|
| 16 Pro: 48MP macro photography
|
| 16: Macro photography
|
| 16e: --
|
| [0]: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Deciding between the vanilla iPhone 16 and the 16e here.
|
| I don't see much in favor of the vanilla iPhone 16. Is the
| extra camera lens useful for anything beyond portrait mode?
| hot_gril wrote:
| Try it in the store. If it's anything like my 12 mini, the
| wide angle lens creates too much distortion to use for
| portraits. Occasionally I use it for landscape photos, but I
| wouldn't miss it much.
| apparent wrote:
| You can record videos for later playback on the AVP, in case
| you care. There's also UWB and magsafe on the vanilla 16. And
| the dynamic island and the camera control button. But it's
| mostly little things, which many people probably don't care
| about.
| throwaway48476 wrote:
| No, no one cares about AVP.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I had to google that to even decipher what it is, and we
| have way too many Apple devices in our house :)
| mannyv wrote:
| This is aimed at the lower end of the market: the pre/postpaid
| MVNOs and deal hunters. And for kids.
|
| The new modem is interesting. How much power around the world
| is being wasted because Qualcomm's code sucks? Apparently
| gigawatts per day.
| michaelt wrote:
| My cell phone has a 3.7v, 2018 mAh battery, for a total of
| 7.4 watt-hours.
|
| That's enough power to drive a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range
| Plus a distance of... 55 meters.
|
| Even if Qualcomm's code was solely responsible for completely
| draining my phone's battery every single day, it would
| _still_ not be very much power.
| mannyv wrote:
| Multiply that by 100 million phones and you'll understand
| what I'm saying.
| mannyv wrote:
| Now multiply that by 6 billion, because that apparently
| is the number of smartphones sold over the last few
| years.
| layer8 wrote:
| There are a number of other differences besides the camera, a
| significant one being the lack of MagSafe:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43104109
| stirlo wrote:
| You can easily just add a case with magnets in it. Even
| iPhone 16 Pro cases often embed magnets in them to compliment
| the built in ones.
|
| I'm guessing you might miss the cool animations but for
| charging and mounting it will work the same.
| philistine wrote:
| Which is why this came out in February, after most of the sales
| of the iPhone 16 are done.
|
| Which is also why we will probably see the discontinuation of
| the regular iPhone 16 this Fall when the iPhone 17 is
| introduced, with this 16e staying on at the same price for an
| extra year.
| carlgreene wrote:
| Incredibly disappointing it's so big. Bring back the small
| phones!!
|
| You'll have to pry the 13 mini from my cold dead hands...or just
| stop supporting it
| selykg wrote:
| You should get 5 years of updates out of it I suspect. It was
| originally released in September of 2021. So, 2026 _might_ be
| the final year of iOS updates you 'll get, then it's just a
| matter of how long they back port any security fixes. Sometimes
| devices end up getting longer support so it's tough to say for
| sure.
|
| At this point one of these SE type devices is on my list for
| any future upgrades. I've gone to carrying a pocketable camera
| with me pretty much anywhere so having a good camera on my
| phone is no longer necessary, which means no more Pro model for
| me.
| Meleagris wrote:
| I agree.
|
| My iPhone 12 Mini has seen better days, and I will need a new
| phone soon. It is disappointing that there is no alternative to
| the iPhone 12/13 Mini in 2025.
|
| The smaller form factor is more comfortable in my hand, and
| fits better in my pockets. With the slim bezels, I have never
| felt that the screen was too small.
|
| It is funny to think that the screen size on the iPhone 12 Mini
| is very similar to the screen size on the older plus models.
|
| _sigh_
| Tagbert wrote:
| Are you concerned about the screen size, then yes this is
| bigger.
|
| If your concern is pocketability this new phone is only 0.25
| inches larger in the diagonal.
| racl101 wrote:
| I need this.
| eamag wrote:
| Can someone please explain the benefits of C1 chip?
| xuki wrote:
| Vertical integration. No longer depends on Qualcomm for a very
| critical component. Slightly higher margin.
| two_handfuls wrote:
| For us: it is smaller and consumes less power, so the phone can
| have a bigger battery life.
|
| For them: more control, lower marginal costs.
| supertrope wrote:
| Apple no longer has to pay a royalty that's a percentage of the
| whole phone. Integrating the modem into the SoC saves power and
| space.
| urmish wrote:
| funny how that made the phone more expensive
| cynicalpeace wrote:
| How possible is it for there to be a "disruptor" to the
| smartphone market?
|
| I think Apple's selling point is the app ecosystem, but I
| personally don't use apps all that much. Just a few big ones and
| they're all just for communication: FB Messenger, WhatsApp, SIM,
| SnapChat. And the web browser, maps. I'm 27.
|
| Why can't someone just manufacture a screen, some buttons, little
| computer, then software for communication and make some good
| money?
|
| Just seems Apple is a dinosaur nowadays Google too.
| 999900000999 wrote:
| The lightphone is an option.
|
| A few lower end black and white screen Android phones exist,
| and that seems closer to what you want.
|
| I have some other obligations to handle, but the iPhone 16e
| looks perfect for me. You can replace so much music production
| gear with an IOS device. Can legit plug in a microphone and
| record a full album, which just isn't really their on Android.
|
| It's beyond frustrating, but on IOS you have amazing music
| production, and Android is like 10 years behind. I wish Apple
| would offer a musicians edition with a headphone jack ( I'd
| literally pay an extra 150$) , but that's never going to
| happen...
| rchaud wrote:
| What would a disruptor in the smartphone space even do in 2025?
|
| It's not like the status quo phones are too expensive, too
| small or too slow compared to the average user's use case.
| There is a phone for every price point, and at worst you'll be
| stuck with a bad camera or a laggy chipset.
|
| There are already phones running Linux and de-Googled OSes
| (Purism, Librem, LineageOS). They won't ever get big enough to
| challenge Apple/Samsung, but maybe be big enough to have a
| stable enough OS to not scare off people looking to switch.
| cynicalpeace wrote:
| Maybe it could be the Juul to Apple's Phillip Morris?
|
| Phones occupy the same space as nicotine in my head, so why
| not explore that comparison?
| dylan604 wrote:
| Is it the phone or the software that you installed on the
| phone? You're blaming the horse the bandit rode in on
| rather than saying that the bandit is the issue.
| cynicalpeace wrote:
| I'm not "blaming" anyone.
|
| Not sure how you can have the software without the
| hardware.
|
| Screens are addictive. Why they are addictive is an
| interesting question- but regardless of the software
| being used- video games, social media, browsing the web,
| the fact remains that these activities are all addictive.
| I suspect it's just because screens are shiny, colorful,
| interactive objects. It doesn't matter what app you give
| a baby or a chimp, they will stare at the screen for many
| hours. TV addiction illustrates my point further.
|
| Anyways, this is all besides my original question.
| Apple/Google feel like the IBM/HP of old. What shape will
| the new Apple/Google take?
| dylan604 wrote:
| The assumption that everyone has an issue with a device
| is where you loose me. I rarely look at my phone. I don't
| have any social apps on it. I only use the phone if I'm
| away from my keyboard. It is absolutely possible to own a
| device and not be addicted to it. I use my device for
| things that are useful, not unhealthy habits. It is not
| the device's fault you use it for unhealthy habits.
| Recognizing and admitting the problem is a huge step
| cynicalpeace wrote:
| > The assumption that everyone has an issue with a device
| is where you loose me
|
| I made no such assumption.
|
| This is far astray from the original thread
| dylan604 wrote:
| >Not sure how you can have the software without the
| hardware.
|
| You can have good software. You can have bad software.
| The hardware does not make it good or bad. The software
| is whatever the devs made it to be utilizing whatever
| hardware on which it runs. The user is ultimately
| responsible for the software they use whether they
| installed it or it is preinstalled.
|
| Again, blaming the horse because the rider is doing bad
| things is not the right approach
|
| > In your example, I can just look thru your HN history
| and see you posted dozens of times yesterday.
|
| What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
| I don't use a device to do this.
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| There are a few innovations that would level them...
| etchalon wrote:
| You're describing the vast majority of Android phones.
| Alifatisk wrote:
| Why can't they release another mini version? I don't want a large
| phone!
| apgwoz wrote:
| It sold poorly, sadly.
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| Of course, since they gimped it. What about creating a
| smaller version laden with features...
| Angostura wrote:
| Nothing gimped about the 13 mini
| skyyler wrote:
| A lot of the people that wanted a small iPhone jumped at
| the 12, so the 13 fixing the problems was a bit of a "too
| little, too late" situation.
| nlitened wrote:
| You can't make those people happy, I guess
| skyyler wrote:
| Well, I bought a 12 mini the day it came out. I'm about
| due for an upgrade, and I would go with the 17 mini when
| it comes out, if they still made minis.
|
| All of my friends that have minis are also people that
| don't upgrade frequently.
| nlitened wrote:
| I like my 13 mini, but now I will be happy to trade some
| size for a bigger battery. Also, some websites turned out
| to be unusable on a smaller screen, so today I am
| thrilled for the 16e
| AISnakeOil wrote:
| Apple has fallen off in every product category.
| ksec wrote:
| It is an iPhone 16, inside iPhone 14 Body, Single Camera from
| iPhone 16, with iPhone 14 OLED Screen, Apple Modem, Without UWB,
| Minus 1 GPU Core on A18, 7.5W MagSafe Charging same as iPhone 14.
| Wifi 6 instead of Wifi 7 on iPhone 16.
|
| However at $599, higher than the rumoured $499 or $549 pricing.
| iPhone 14 previously at $599 and iPhone SE at $429 are now gone.
| Getting rid of iPhone 14 and iPhone SE as they are both using
| Lightning and not USB-C.
|
| The lineup is a little strange. Will iPhone 15, currently at $699
| dropped to $599 when they announce iPhone 17?
|
| The most interesting part is of course the Modem. We will have to
| wait and see how it perform.
| batata_frita wrote:
| Great description. But what is UWB?
| mikestew wrote:
| "Ultra Wide Band", used for finding things at short range.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-wideband
| dopamean wrote:
| ultra wide band
| jjice wrote:
| Ultra Wide Band - it's how AirTags and other things give you
| that precise finding feature, I believe.
| Angostura wrote:
| The UWB ommission is a bit sad - I have it on my 13 Mini
| and it's very handy for finding lost keys. Still, I guess
| segmenters going to segment
| sorenjan wrote:
| It's also used to unlock some cars.
| layer8 wrote:
| No MagSafe, only Qi (not Qi2).
|
| 800 nits typical brightness vs. 1000 for the 16, 1200 nits
| maximum brightness vs. 1600-2000 nits.
|
| Notch vs. dynamic island, of course.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > No MagSafe, only Qi.
|
| Qi2 is based on Magsafe.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/3/23538131/qi2-wireless-
| char...
| dagmx wrote:
| Qi2 doesn't require the magnetic component however.
| Tagbert wrote:
| True but the alignment magnets of MagSafe and Qi2 were a
| huge quality of life improvement. You are probably better
| off just using USB to charge this one
| layer8 wrote:
| I know, but the official specs and comparison page
| explicitly only say Qi (with 7.5 W) for the 16e where they
| say MagSafe and Qi2 (with 25 W) for the iPhone 16. The
| comparison page is also lacking the MagSafe symbol for the
| 16e.
| cptskippy wrote:
| > Qi2 is based on Magsafe.
|
| That's an insult to all of the engineering that went into
| Qi.
|
| The Magsafe specification was an attempt to create the new
| Lightning connector ecosystem that backfired spectacularly
| and blew up in Apple's face. It's nothing more than magnets
| and DRM layered on top of a regular Qi charger.
|
| Naturally Apple used the DRM to limit the charging speeds
| of their phones when paired with regular Qi chargers.
| There's a practical reason for this which is how Apple
| tried to justify their outrageous licensing fee to
| implement Magsafe.
|
| Unfortunately for Apple, manufacturers mostly said no to
| Magsafe licensing and Apple's user based complained to
| Apple that their phones wouldn't charge at the rated speeds
| of the Qi chargers they bought.
|
| This put Apple in an awkward position where they could tell
| their users to only buy MagSafe devices, compromise on
| safety to appease users, or give up on Magsafe being
| proprietary. Thankfully they chose the later.
|
| Qi2 isn't Magsafe, Qi2 incorporated Magsafe because it
| improves the standard.
|
| Don't let Apple marketing fool you into thinking Apple is
| doing this altruistically.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| From the article linked above:
|
| > With the blessing of competitors, Apple is about to
| change the Qi wireless standard itself. It's contributing
| to a new version of Qi that works much like MagSafe --
| magnets, authentication, and all.
| cptskippy wrote:
| "Qi2 is based on Magsafe" is not the same as "Apple is...
| contributing to a new version of Qi"
|
| Your statement implies that Qi2 used Magsafe as a
| starting point or that it's primarily based on Magsafe.
| Your statement is inaccurate and would lead people to
| think that Qi2 was mostly an Apple design.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| ...it is. Qi2 is basically a copy-paste of MagSafe
| jacobgkau wrote:
| I think their point was that the wireless MagSafe was
| basically a copy-paste of Qi, so it wasn't "mostly an
| Apple design" to begin with. "Qi2 is a copy-paste of
| MagSafe" (or "Qi2 is based on MagSafe") makes it sound a
| bit like they threw out the original Qi in favor of
| Apple's completely home-grown alternative, which comes
| with inaccurate connotations of who actually did the
| important work.
|
| It's subjective how important the history is and how
| important Apple's contributions are, but that seems to be
| what they were getting at.
| wraptile wrote:
| Magsafe sticker is is 1$ for a pack of 10 so it's really not
| a problem.
| azinman2 wrote:
| But you need to align it perfectly.
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| I've had good luck with cases that have the magnet bit
| built in
| layer8 wrote:
| The A18 in the 16e is also binned, one less GPU core compared
| to the regular 16.
| re-thc wrote:
| > 7.5W MagSafe Charging same as iPhone 14
|
| No MagSafe here
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > The most interesting part is of course the Modem.
|
| In addition, they are said to have replaced the WiFi/Bluetooth
| chip with one developed in-house.
|
| > Apple Inc.'s ambitious plan to create in-house components for
| its devices will include switching to a homegrown chip for
| Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connections starting next year, a move that
| will replace some parts currently provided by Broadcom Inc.
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-12-12/apple-nea...
|
| The rumors called out improved battery life as an upside.
| walterbell wrote:
| Hopefully these new cellular, wifi and bluetooth basebands
| can avoid the zero-day fame of their predecessors.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| I would assume that Apple's new firmware would have been
| written in a memory safe language.
|
| They did make some noise about enabling Swift for embedded
| development at last years WWDC.
|
| Although Qualcomm's big zero day last year was related to
| the DSP and not the baseband, I believe.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> I would assume that Apple's new firmware would have
| been written in a memory safe language. _
|
| Memory safe languages don't protect from human programmer
| complacency and stupidity, or from incidental alphabet
| agency backdoors.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| The patch notes for Qualcomm's big zero day exploit last
| year certainly gives the impression that this was yet
| another example of a memory safety error.
|
| > According to the patch instructions, the fix works by
| adding direct memory access handle references.
|
| https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/366612994/
| Hig...
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Sure, but they do protect from a massive swath of real
| attacks
|
| Don't guarantee complete safety but do eliminate a
| massive attack surface
| iknowstuff wrote:
| Here's hoping. Bets on Swift v Rust?
|
| I swear if they wrote a modem from scratch in C that's a
| major own goal
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Definitely Swift https://swift.org/blog/embedded-swift-
| examples/
| scrlk wrote:
| There's a number of firmware jobs on their website at the
| moment. All of them ask for C or C++ experience.
|
| E.g.: https://jobs.apple.com/en-
| us/details/200579953/embedded-5g-4...
| saagarjha wrote:
| It's C(++) judging by the strings in the firmware
| conradev wrote:
| In this specific case, I imagine the system is much more
| secure. The Broadcom chip and Qualcomm chip each
| represented their own separate attack surface. Even without
| hacking the AP those chips were still a problem.
| JBiserkov wrote:
| $599, same as the Mac Mini M4 :-)
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| Yeah, but this has a screen built in and you can actually put
| it in your pocket.
| LightBug1 wrote:
| https://sidetalking.com/original/
|
| Don't limit yourself ...
| Quadricycle wrote:
| For anyone else whose browser is configured to not ask
| where to save files before downloading, you may notice
| that the site linked above initiates a download of a MIDI
| file named "Jive_Talkin.mid." It does appear to be safe
| according to VirusTotal: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/f
| ile/896eadff63581cb1a3f0e354...
| Kwpolska wrote:
| This page works best in Internet Explorer. You would
| actually hear the music the authors intended you to hear.
|
| PowerShell to the rescue: $ie = New-
| Object -ComObject internetexplorer.application;
| $ie.Navigate("https://sidetalking.com/original/");
| $ie.Visible = $true
| iknowstuff wrote:
| Is there a recommended resolution for viewing too?
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| But if you have an older pant that used to store an iPhone
| of 4.x inch size then it might not be as cozy as you knew
| it. Just saying.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| > The lineup is a little strange.
|
| They have Macs they call Macbook Airs, but their Macbooks look
| like "Air" Macbooks, they really should have swapped the names
| on those models long ago.
| deergomoo wrote:
| The no-adjective MacBook hasn't been sold for years. It's
| just Air and Pro again now.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Makes sense, it never made sense to downgrade, I guess the
| Air should drop "Air" moving forward then...
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| It's better this way. It's clear whether someone means
| any macbook, or just the non-pro, or just the pro.
| dagmx wrote:
| They haven't sold the MacBook you're talking about since
| 2019.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| The 12" MacBook Abomination was a short-lived, badly-
| designed, performance-limited computer. Apple doesn't sell
| them anymore, and modern Airs are very respectable computers.
| rsync wrote:
| ... except for the fact that they refuse to re-issue the
| second greatest laptop form facter _of all time_ : the 11"
| MBA.
|
| First place, obviously, goes to the Toshiba Libretto.
| nazgulnarsil wrote:
| Because the 13" is close to the same physical size as the
| old 11
| torstenvl wrote:
| It really isn't. While it's only .12" wider, it's almost
| an inch deeper and over 5oz heavier.
| robterrell wrote:
| Come on. First place has gotta be the PowerBook 100.
| bitwize wrote:
| Nope. ThinkPad with the butterfly keyboard.
| red369 wrote:
| PowerBook Duo or 2400C - surely! :)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_2400c
|
| Wow - how was I impressed with a laptop "only" weighing
| 2kg?!
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I wish they would make a mini version of this, it would be
| perfect. After the 13 Mini, us small phone lovers are screwed.
| saturn8601 wrote:
| holding onto my iPhone 13 Mini for dear life.
| jansan wrote:
| Lots of Android options available, and much more affordable.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| I don't think there is any mainstream Android phone
| available that is of 12/13 Mini size. In fact there might
| not be a mainstream one that is smaller than the current
| base iPhone size.
| pzmarzly wrote:
| Regarding your first statement: yes, sadly.
|
| Regarding your second one, I have some good news though:
| ASUS Zenfone 10 is smaller than iPhone 16 by 1.1mm x
| 3.5mm, Samsung S24 (base model) is 0.6mm x 1.0mm smaller,
| and Sony Xperia 5 V is only slightly bigger.
| red369 wrote:
| I know there used to be such a huge range of Android
| phone sizes, that there was likely to be a phone in the
| size you wanted, and you acknowledged that the phones you
| were listing were not the same size as the 12/13 mini...
|
| But the Sony suggested is slightly bigger than the iPhone
| 16 in 2/3 of the dimensions and this comment thread is
| lamenting how big the iPhone 16 is! I think people who
| see the iPhone 16 as so large it is not an option are
| unlikely to consider switching to Android for an even
| larger phone.
|
| It's a shame, because Sony used to make smaller phones
| with only slightly lower specs than their flagship
| phones. I also still associate them with making sensibly-
| sized alternatives, even though they don't anymore.
| nunez wrote:
| Not at the same size (I spent a lot of time looking).
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| You must let go. This not happening anymore. That boat sailed
| for all OEMs. It will just lead to heartache and defeat and
| frustration or a combo of these.
| nonchalantsui wrote:
| On the bright side, when your mini dies, there will likely be
| better flips out there. The Z Flip 6 isn't that bad
| currently, and I really did enjoy how much pocket space it
| saved, but if you're stuck to Apple it's another 2 years
| before they release their attempt.
| pzmarzly wrote:
| I was considering Samsung Z Flip 6 or Motorola Razr 50
| Ultra (sold as Razr+ in the US), but both are almost twice
| as thick as iPhone 13 Mini. That doesn't spark joy.
| seec wrote:
| I have considered flip phones as a replacement for a mini
| but it's just not the same thing at all when it comes to a
| smartphone.
|
| It makes the phone less durable for a useless screen size,
| its pocket ability isn't much better because it is just
| bulkier (easier to enter in small pockets, but bigger
| deformation and feel) and it's just less convenient because
| you have to open it anytime you want to use it.
|
| There is no replacement for a small phone, some
| manufacturer has to do it.
| mrexroad wrote:
| still loving my 12mini. size is perfect, batt is only issue.
| red369 wrote:
| My usual plug for: https://smallandroidphone.com/
|
| I think Eric Migicovsky, the founder of Pebble, has decided
| he will have a go at an iPhone 13 mini sized android phone,
| since nothing exists in that space anymore.
|
| Android rather than iPhone, but I've also recently given up
| hoping Apple would release a small phone. I recently bought a
| used iPhone 13 mini when my minor-regret-sized SE 2022
| started playing up and I saw that all the rumours pointed at
| this 16E being huge.
| f6v wrote:
| At least I can still buy a 700 eur phone when my 13 mini gives
| up.
| Jotalea wrote:
| This might be the new best price-quality iPhone after the 13 Pro.
| hx8 wrote:
| The point here is to replace iPhone 15 which doesn't support
| Apple Intelligence without raising the lowest price point for an
| iPhone. Apple has made a bit of a blunder by selling hardware
| with such limited memory for so long, which gives them a large
| install base that doesn't support gen-ai tech. Of course, the
| urgency of upgrading depends on how bullish you are on gen-ai.
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| What does the e stands for? Eviscerated? :)
|
| It would be nice to put the last few years of developments since
| his death into a silicon brain and ask the digital Steve Jobs his
| thoughts on the current state of affairs.
| Neil44 wrote:
| They made their own modem, the right move but still brave, I bet
| there are a lot of 'Chestertons Fences' in those.
| usui wrote:
| Apple leans its weight heavily on controversial smartphone
| changes and defines trends for the rest of the industry, even
| when it's not the first company to do so. When it removed the
| headphone jack, introduced the screen notch, or added a camera
| bump, everyone followed afterward despite the grumbling.
|
| So keeping that in mind, regarding the modem, I remember prior
| comments about it being near-impossible or extremely difficult
| for Apple to cut out Qualcomm because of the decentralized
| network of mobile towers, operators, proprietary information,
| legacy cruft, edge cases, hardware and geographical testing,
| etc., which Qualcomm handles as part of its value-add. If Apple
| starts spearheading changes in how phone modems work, could we
| imagine mobile towers playing along and converging? Or is it more
| entrenched than that?
|
| Prior discussion
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41287977
| Analemma_ wrote:
| I don't think anyone thought it was literally impossible, just
| really, really hard and with a ton of corner cases and micro-
| optimizations necessary. But remember, they've been at this for
| a long time now: they bought Intel's modem business in 2019 and
| Intel presumably had several years worth of work on it before
| that. I guess this is the year when they've ground out enough
| of the bugs to at least ship it on a non-flagship device.
| hot_gril wrote:
| The other phonemakers didn't grumble about the jack because
| they realized they could pull the same scam
| phyrex wrote:
| Oh please. They all made fun of it and THEN switched a year
| later
| hot_gril wrote:
| Takes a year to make whatever their copy of AirPods was
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Sure but they also leaned heavily into the "we still have
| an aux jack hurr hurr hurr" while they figured out how to
| copy Apple
| dathinab wrote:
| > extremely difficult for Apple to cut out Qualcomm
|
| it was extremely difficult, they have been working on this
| since at least ~6 years, maybe longer and involved buying intel
| 5G modem business
|
| it also is lacking UWB which either Apple has given up on or is
| bringing back with future revisions of their modem
| xattt wrote:
| My best guess is that it's for differentiation. For example,
| the SE never had Qi when the rest of the lineup did.
| philistine wrote:
| My iPhone SE 2 right next to me is charging on its Qi puck
| right now. The SE have never had _Magsafe_ , which allows a
| phone to be charged aligned with magnets.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > extremely difficult for Apple to cut out Qualcomm
|
| 4G and above are open standards, and Samsung, Huawei and
| MediaTek have all previously created their own cellular modem
| implementations.
|
| It's not easy, but if your market share is big enough, you come
| out ahead.
| ksec wrote:
| >If Apple starts spearheading changes in how phone modems work,
| could we imagine mobile towers playing along and converging? Or
| is it more entrenched than that?
|
| Do You mean Telco Equipment vendor converging? Well first thing
| is that 4g / 5G or 3GPP is an open standard so anyone could
| implement it. Second is that there are only a few Telco
| Equipment vendor left already. There will still be insane
| amount of testing required to be done even if everyone were to
| use the same equipment. The amount of variables such as
| spectrum, regulations requirements, physical space and density
| as well as weather difference.
| m463 wrote:
| Unfortunately, the worst example they set is the locked-down
| device + an app store.
| dfabulich wrote:
| Check out the battery life!
|
| > _iPhone 16e has the best battery life ever on a 6.1-inch
| iPhone, lasting up to six hours longer than iPhone 11 and up to
| 12 hours longer than all generations of iPhone SE._
|
| Their page comparing models claims the new 16e gets "26 hours
| video playback." iPhone 16e: 26 hours
| iPhone 16: 22 hours iPhone 15: 20 hours iPhone 14:
| 20 hours iPhone 13: 19 hours iPhone 12: 17 hours
| iPhone 11: 17 hours
|
| The new battery life seems to be mostly due to their new Apple C1
| cellular modem, replacing the Qualcomm modems in earlier models.
|
| > _Expanding the benefits of Apple silicon, C1 is the first modem
| designed by Apple and the most power-efficient modem ever on an
| iPhone, delivering fast and reliable 5G cellular connectivity.
| Apple silicon -- including C1 -- the all-new internal design, and
| the advanced power management of iOS 18 all contribute to
| extraordinary battery life._
| throwfaraway4 wrote:
| Partly due to being able to fit a bigger battery with the
| smaller modem size https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFuyX1XgJFg
| tempaccount420 wrote:
| timestamped: https://youtu.be/mFuyX1XgJFg?t=233
| Analemma_ wrote:
| It's possible the battery chemistry has also changed. In the
| last 12-18 months, a bunch of Android phones have gotten large
| battery capacity upgrades, apparently thanks to silicon-carbon
| anodes being mature enough for mass production. Presumably
| Apple is now doing the sam thing.
| benterix wrote:
| > In the last 12-18 months, a bunch of Android phones have
| gotten large battery capacity upgrades
|
| Can you give some examples? I'd like to test one out but I'm
| not buying the most recent product as a rule.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| The OnePlus 13 and Oppo Find X8 both got 10% capacity
| upgrades over their previous iterations but with the same
| size/weight. The Honor Magic V2 also has a huge battery
| despite being a very slim foldable (5,000 mAh, compared to
| 3,000-3,500 on the ones from Samsung and Google).
| gbil wrote:
| Oneplus 13 with lithium-silicon battery tech. This is the
| new tech which allows for higher capacity at the same size
| as before.
| cptcobalt wrote:
| Do signs point toward Apple adopting a unique, new cell
| chemistry for what will be their high-volume budget product
| for the next few years? It would have probably been a
| marketing line if so, similar to the C1 modem. A bigger
| battery doesn't imply new tech.
|
| (Yes, the phone expensive now, but these SE-tier phones
| typically get discounts pretty quickly after release through
| carriers/non-apple retail; and then a bigger & formal sale
| price decrease when the next phone generation comes out.)
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| The overlap of the "cares about battery chemistry" and
| "purchases the lowest tier device" is probably close to 0
|
| The C1 modem gets a line because Wall Street has seen that
| expense for a decade now, so this is a "win" for them.
| Battery chemistry is completely 3rd party, so they'll claim
| the battery life improvement
| hnburnsy wrote:
| Its been a long slog for Apple, they have been working on this
| since 2018, and they had to keep extending its supply
| agreements with Qualcomm...
|
| "Inside Apple's Spectacular Failure to Build a Key Part for Its
| New iPhones"
|
| >The 2018 marching orders from Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook
| to design and build a modem chip--a part that connects iPhones
| to wireless carriers--led to the hiring of thousands of
| engineers. The goal was to sever Apple's grudging dependence on
| Qualcomm, a longtime chip supplier that dominates the modem
| market. The obstacles to finishing the chip were largely of
| Apple's own making, according to former company engineers and
| executives familiar with the project. Apple had planned to have
| its modem chip ready to use in the new iPhone models. But tests
| late last year found the chip was too slow and prone to
| overheating. Its circuit board was so big it would take up half
| an iPhone, making it unusable.
|
| https://kanebridgenews.com/inside-apples-spectacular-failure...
| [2023]
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Apple managed to design its own state-of-the-art CPUs. I
| wouldn't have imagined that designing its own modem would be
| such a difficult challenge?
| ksec wrote:
| Except making a decent modem is indeed harder than start of
| art CPU. People loves to shit on Qualcomm but dont
| appreciate that amount of work involved.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| s/work/patent blackmail/g
| uticus wrote:
| I would buy that a decent modem is harder than many CPU
| designs, maybe even most. But harder than state-of-the-
| art? Surely not, have you seen the complexity?
|
| And even CPUs (esp state of art) have to worry about
| radio effects, as in avoiding internally and across
| chipset.
| IshKebab wrote:
| State of the art CPUs aren't fundamentally different to
| more basic CPUs. They just have fancier
| microarchitectures, better branch predictors, more cache,
| etc.
|
| Easy to believe radios would be an order of magnitude
| harder, what with the ancient proprietary standards and
| actual physical radio stuff. (The closest CPUs get is
| serdes and in my experience those are bought in from
| Synopsys et al.)
| throwaway4731 wrote:
| The hard part is not the modem design per se.
|
| The hard part is designing a good modem while also
| unambiguously working around all the Qualcomm patents in
| all the jurisdictions that have iPhone, which is all of
| them.
|
| Because if you don't do that, you're still paying
| Qualcomm which defeats an important purpose of making
| your own modem.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| Modems are harder to get right than CPUs. A CPU needs to do
| math and work with digital data lines. A modem needs to
| talk to the mobile network, using radios, and a bunch of
| standards that were built up since the 90s.
| altairprime wrote:
| CPUs can be easily developed in an ecosystem where annual
| updates and the ability to end-of-life hardware older than
| a decade are the norm. Cellular network opereators share
| none of those properties with Apple, and so any new modem
| chip designed to interoperate with carriers would
| necessarily be an order of magnitude more difficult to
| implement than an CPU that only needs to interoperate with
| Xcode would be.
| vessenes wrote:
| The original M-series chip team left years ago, or at least
| the major drivers. Also: radios are hard, super hard.
| DCH3416 wrote:
| I wouldn't expect these initial baseband implementations
| to be fantastic software wise.
| schmidtleonard wrote:
| That's probably why it's in a weird release between 16
| and 17.
| melvinmelih wrote:
| 26 hours of battery life but you still have to charge it with a
| cable (they didn't add MagSafe). This might be a deal breaker
| for me...
| whitepoplar wrote:
| It has wireless charging, just not MagSafe.
| melvinmelih wrote:
| Yeah but the MagSafe charger I've spent $150 on doesn't
| work without the magnetic part.
| 4fterd4rk wrote:
| I assume it's some elaborate mounting thing if you spent
| that much on it, but actually a magsafe charger will act
| as a standard Qi charger as well.
| hollandheese wrote:
| Yep. Switched from iPhone to Android but still use my
| magsafe charger on my bed stand for the new phone.
| M3L0NM4N wrote:
| I wonder if one of those MagSafe cases that basically
| "passthrough" the MagSafe magnets in the phone would
| work.
| SirMaster wrote:
| Absolutely. Plenty of even cheap cases have the magsafe
| ring to align the charger and then would work with the
| magsafe puck just fine.
| nottorp wrote:
| Well I have an ancient wireless charger (power unknown)
| that doubles as a stand that I got for free as swag from
| some conference. I just keep my magsafe supporting phone
| on it when I'm not using it and done.
|
| Look ma, no magnets!
| runjake wrote:
| It works fine, you just have to manually align it, like
| any other Qi charger.
|
| I half suspect you're trolling based on this and your
| other comments under this post, but in case you're not,
| the Magsafe charger specs state they are Qi compatible.
|
| https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX6X3LL/A/magsafe-
| charger... > The MagSafe Charger is
| compatible with Qi2 and Qi charging, so it can be used to
| > wirelessly charge your iPhone 8 or later, as well as
| AirPods models with a wireless > charging case, as
| you would with any Qi2 or Qi-certified charger.
|
| PS: What MagSafe charger cost you $150? The regular Apple
| charger costs $39.
| stilldavid wrote:
| Not OP but I have the Anker 3-in-1 Cube and it was $150
| when I bought it a year or two ago. It charges a phone,
| watch, and airpods at the same time, and sparks joy for
| me.
|
| https://www.anker.com/products/y1811
| andbberger wrote:
| does the target market for a cheap iphone spend $150 on a
| charger?
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Is MagSafe worth it? I think I've misaligned my iPhone 12
| mini once on my Qi charger total over the past five years
| or so.
| kube-system wrote:
| Then sell it and buy a $10 Qi charger.
| glial wrote:
| The article says it supports wireless charging.
| SirMaster wrote:
| Do you not use a case? Even cheap $20 cases have a magsafe
| ring in them which would make this work with the magsafe
| charger puck.
| runjake wrote:
| MagSafe chargers are Qi/Qi2 compatible. They'll charge
| without a magnetic ring.
|
| https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX6X3LL/A/magsafe-
| charger...
| SirMaster wrote:
| Well yes of course. But the whole point of the ring is to
| align them perfectly so the efficiency is high and so you
| can use the phone without it falling off or losing
| alignment.
|
| Using a case with the magnet ring in it solves this
| problem for the 16e without the ring in the phone itself.
| runjake wrote:
| I figure you knew it, but OP seemed to be unaware of
| this.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| The improved battery life is BECAUSE there's no MagSafe lol
|
| You'll need to answer for yourself: more battery life or
| MagSafe?
| bdhcuidbebe wrote:
| My Nokia 3310 lasted for over a week before recharge in 2000.
| Retr0id wrote:
| But how many hours of video playback?
| Lammy wrote:
| As many as I do on the smartphone I own in 2025
| bdhcuidbebe wrote:
| My iPhone today last for less than a day while I dont watch
| any video on it, In fact, i barely use it currently, and it
| still drains batteries in no time. And yes, I disabled most
| background services and location services and run screen on
| low brightness - all the popular hacks to reduce battery
| usage.
| apparent wrote:
| How old is your phone/battery? When you say less than a
| day, do you mean 24 hrs or the period of time you're
| awake?
| bdhcuidbebe wrote:
| iPhone 13 mini, i mean 24 hours
| ndiddy wrote:
| Of course your phone has a short runtime, it both has a
| small battery and it's 3 years old so the battery's worn
| out. One of the main reasons why small phones remain a
| niche is that improvements in battery technology have
| been far outpaced by improvements in SoCs, so the easiest
| way to improve a device's battery life vs. the older
| model is to make it larger so it can fit a bigger
| battery. Even when it was new, the regular iPhone 13 had
| a 3220 mAh battery while the 13 mini had a 2400 mAh
| battery, despite both having the same processor. You end
| up sacrificing battery life to achieve the small size.
| ryandrake wrote:
| How low the quality bar has gotten! A device with a
| battery is now considered "worn out" after a measly 3
| years?
| asdff wrote:
| I think the iphone does a lot more in the background than
| you might consider initially. Here is an experiment to
| try. Use your phone as you currently do, but turn on
| airplane mode when you aren't otherwise using the phone.
| Leave it on overnight too. You should only lose a few
| percentage overnight on airplane mode even with an old
| phone.
| bdhcuidbebe wrote:
| > I think the iphone does a lot more in the background
| than you might consider initially.
|
| I understand that. My point being that 25 year old tech,
| before the real miniatyrization of circuits and power
| efficiency mind you, has 7x charge time and yet we are
| impressed by a few additional hours.
|
| > Here is an experiment to try. Use your phone as you
| currently do, but turn on airplane mode when you aren't
| otherwise using the phone. Leave it on overnight too.
|
| Sure but to what benefit?
|
| I already addressed the tweaks i did do in a sibling
| comment. Putting the phone in airplane mode is no
| different than having a dead battery in terms of
| usability.
| yazaddaruvala wrote:
| The difference is passive. Your phone is constantly
| pooling for both 4g, and 5g signal. Then using that to
| pool for notifications from apps.
|
| This is stuff your Nokia didn't do at the same scale. At
| best some sms at a significantly reduced polling rate.
|
| My apps auto update in the background. Something my Nokia
| from 2007 didn't do.
|
| So there are many passively provided features but by
| definition they are not obvious to you and as such harder
| to appreciate.
|
| If you have an iPhone: I use low power mode constantly. I
| have an automation to use it at 75% or less battery.
|
| I get roughly 2 days of battery life without any YouTube
| usage.
| threeseed wrote:
| > I understand that. My point being that 25 year old
| tech, before the real miniatyrization of circuits and
| power efficiency mind you, has 7x charge time and yet we
| are impressed by a few additional hours.
|
| Yes because those phones by comparison do nothing so it's
| a meaningless comparison.
|
| It's like arguing that we shouldn't be impressed about EV
| range improvements because the bicycle exists.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _My iPhone today last for less than a day while I dont
| watch any video on it, In fact, i barely use it
| currently, and it still drains batteries in no time._
|
| Odd. I wonder if you have some apps updating in the
| background a lot.
|
| Both my personal and my work iPhones are two-years-old,
| and both will last several days even with audio
| streaming.
|
| I put my work phone in its drawer last Thursday, and when
| I took it out on Tuesday, it still had 11% left.
| wiredfool wrote:
| Tailscale and Wireguard absolutely murder the battery if
| the network is down/flakey.
| TransAtlToonz wrote:
| Wow. This is fantastic. This is the first time in nearly
| fifteen years they've had a feature I've actually wanted to
| purchase.
| mdasen wrote:
| In the video, they did say that the C1 is the "most power-
| efficient modem ever in an iPhone." They also said that they
| have an "all new internal design for iPhone 16e that has been
| optimized for a larger battery."
|
| Part of it is certainly the modem, but part of it is also
| likely to be the larger battery.
|
| I'm really curious to see both how the Apple C1 performs and
| also how they changed up the internals for a larger battery and
| how much larger that battery is.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| I'm sure the modem contributes, but IMO the battery life is
| probably mostly from just having a bigger battery due to the
| new internal design (and maybe chemistry changes). The new
| design moves the frame's structure into the middle of the
| sandwich, making it more rigid and allowing them to make the
| frame thinner to pack in more battery.
|
| Lots of people are mad about losing magsafe but in magsafe
| phones the magnets sit flush with the frame in a huge circular
| cutout just below the back glass. The hole weakens the frame so
| the frame has to be thicker because of it.
|
| I don't think there is really a world where this phone gets 6
| more hours of battery life while still having magsafe and
| fitting into the existing shape of the iPhone 14.
|
| https://youtu.be/mFuyX1XgJFg?t=227
| martinsnow wrote:
| Modem has always been a pain point since it's an entire SoC
| that had to be shielded from the rest of the system. Apple
| producing their own modem is a giant undertaking.
| SirMaster wrote:
| So the video test is done with the video streaming over
| cellular data?
|
| Otherwise what would a video playback time spec have to do with
| the efficiency of the cellular radio?
| seec wrote:
| I am wondering exactly the same. Maybe the standby costs? The
| chip needs to always have power to be able to receive the
| radio waves, it uses less power in that way but still quite a
| bit, I guess.
|
| The surprise is how much power that is. It's either that or
| misleading marketing. I know Apple struggled to make this
| modem, so maybe it's still not great when it comes to standby
| power consumption. Since it's Apple we will only know after
| quite a bit of independent testing...
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| Phones maintain a cellular connection even if most data is
| being transmitted over WiFi at any given moment
|
| Cellular modems are constantly reading and broadcasting
| messages to the cellular network unless they are explicitly
| turned off
| wilg wrote:
| Fairly misleading, since according to the comparison on their
| site (https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16
| ,ip...) the slightly-bigger 6.3 inch iPhone 16 Pro gets 27
| hours of video playback vs the 16e's 26 hours. (Regular iPhone
| 16 is 22 though.)
| josephg wrote:
| > iPhone 16e has the best battery life ever on a _6.1-inch_
| iPhone
| jcpham2 wrote:
| Still rocking my iPhone XR with zero plans to change or upgrade
| phones. If I did or were forced to upgrade I would most likely go
| for something like this or an older 12 or 14 with a few features
| as possible.
| tom_ wrote:
| "All at an incredible value"? Are you _really_ allowed to say
| that?
|
| (Grammatically, I mean. I'm not asking for legal advice.)
| quesera wrote:
| Grammar parses for me.
| Copenjin wrote:
| 8Gb of ram, for those wondering.
| deergomoo wrote:
| At this point there's only really one thing I want from an iPhone
| and that's an option for a 12/13 mini sized device again. Surely
| those phones didn't sell _so_ few that it's not worth doing at
| all?
| Etheryte wrote:
| If they can standardize their whole lineup around two sizes,
| regular and max, then I think it will be a very hard sell to
| add extra work and complexity for the production lines for a
| smaller size that sells both lower volumes and lower price.
| Don't get me wrong, I love the Mini and have one right now, but
| from a business management perspective I can totally see how
| getting rid of it makes sense.
|
| Another aspect that I think is often missed is that the Mini
| physically cannot offer the same battery life as other iPhones.
| Many say they don't mind this, but over time as the battery
| life deteriorates, it becomes a pain point all the same. I
| think that is another aspect of why they don't like the small
| form factor.
| cpach wrote:
| AFAIK Samsung doesn't offer any mini devices either. If
| that's true, it's probably for the same reasons Apple
| doesn't.
| JavierFlores09 wrote:
| Well, in the case of Samsung, I imagine they would rather
| not want to in order to promote their Z Flip series
| instead. More compact than any Mini version would
| potentially be. Though I guess for the people who like
| their phones to be able to fit in their hand, it doesn't
| make much of a difference.
| michaelt wrote:
| _> I think it will be a very hard sell to add extra work for
| the production lines for a smaller size_
|
| The Toyota Corolla sells 1 million units a year worldwide -
| it's totally practical and realistic to set up a production
| line to make 1 million devices a year.
|
| Apple sells 200 million iphones a year.
|
| That's why they're happy to make the iPhone 16, 16 Plus, 16
| Pro, 16 Pro Max and 16e and offer them in 4-5 colours per
| model as well.
|
| It's something else - probably sales.
| jmkni wrote:
| Is there also an added effort around making iOS work on the
| smaller screen size/resolution as well though?
|
| If they can standardise those, they might end up with an
| easier OS to maintain once the Mini (sadly) is no longer
| supported
| asdff wrote:
| Battery life deteriorating is only a pain point because they
| make it so users can't trivially service the battery
| themselves. It is amazing seeing the walk back over the years
| from sensible affordances to the consumer to binning those
| features behind expensive repairs. I still remember my ibook
| where you could pop out the keyboard with your fingers and
| pop out the battery with a dime. I remember when they
| released the unibody macbook and they gave you a simple clasp
| to access both the battery and the hard drive as they were
| anticipating consumers shifting to SSDs in the near future in
| 2010 and wanted to offer an affordance. Slowly that went
| away. The latch went away for a dozen small screws that are
| easy to strip and lose. Eventually the ability to change out
| the drive or the battery yourself went away too. Slippery
| slope of setting up user expectations for a worse version of
| the product in a few generations from certain standpoints.
| Sure it is faster but imagine if it was faster and also as
| serviceable as devices used to be. There isn't good reason
| for it other than to gouge you when you spec out your macbook
| at rates that are always at a convenient premium over today's
| prices for these hardware.
| walterbell wrote:
| EU mandate for removable batteries will restore lost
| flexibility.
|
| Even repair/replace is improving, with new aftermarket
| storage upgrades for Macbooks.
| seec wrote:
| Exactly. I had this MacBook. It is legendary, they made it
| at a great price point with most of the qualities and
| features of the more expensive Pros of the time. It didn't
| last long, they axed it the next year, figuring they were
| leaving money on the table. Its weakness was the terrible
| iGPU in the Intel chip, you couldn't do much serious
| graphical work with it until you would get the spinner of
| doom.
|
| I think this is really "peak Apple" era. Most stuff they
| did after Jobs death is re-heated or poorly
| designed/conceived.
|
| Apple is just a luxury brand nowadays because they have
| lost focus on the user, it's a bit maddening that they are
| getting so rich from it but I guess that's how it is...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I am still using my 13 Mini. I got it, because I knew that it
| would be the last Mini Apple does.
|
| I plan to use it, until I need to charge the battery every 15
| minutes.
| robin_reala wrote:
| Then replace the battery and carry on using it?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| May end up doing that. We'll see.
|
| I also write software for these beasties, and it may well
| be that I won't be able to justify avoiding getting one
| that has Apple Intelligence.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Eventually, Apple (and 3p developers) will abandon you,
| and you'll need to throw away a perfectly good phone and
| take another step on the treadmill.
|
| I'm still hanging on to my perfectly working iPhone 7,
| while app developers tell me to fuck off left and right.
| It does everything I want a phone to do, but developers
| consider "old phones" to be icky and stop supporting
| them.
| avs733 wrote:
| I have a 13 mini that is hanging on by a thread and you will
| pry it from my hand (because I can actually hold onto it).
| I'm actually considering finding a refub because I prefer my
| old-fashioned artillery to the 6.1".
|
| The larger phones barely fit in pockets, fit poorly in
| running packs/biking gear and are just generally
| inconvienient for being active with them.
| nunez wrote:
| Refurbs are out there. I got two a few months ago. Battery
| health on both is around 85% though.
| kennywinker wrote:
| Just so you know, the batteries are replaceable ;)
| beretguy wrote:
| I still use 1st Gen SE with 4 inch screen.
| asdff wrote:
| I would have kept using mine if it didn't have issues
| dropping calls and also certain app incompatibilities that
| began to be frusterating. It is actually a lot better of an
| iphone than my newer SE2. It is much faster on the OS it
| runs than this SE2 on ios 15. Spotlight search is
| instantaneous on the old SE. On the SE2 it might hang in
| spotlight for 5 seconds or longer.
| dageshi wrote:
| Based on previous conversations on this topic, I think the
| issue is that people don't actually prioritise the mini size
| above all else.
|
| In other words whatever size the audience is for a mini phone
| they are further fragmented into people who want a flagship
| phone vs mid range phone vs budget phone.
|
| And those market segments are too small to make it worth Apple
| or even most android manufacturers effort.
| mannyv wrote:
| The Mini didn't sell well...for an iPhone.
|
| I have a 13 mini and will use it until it dies...just like the
| SE before it.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| The best part about my 12 mini is that it's such a pain to use
| sometimes on the modern web that it discourages unnecessary
| browsing. Alas, the battery was already subpar on it and now is
| quite bad, so I'll probably pick up this SE.
| thebigspacefuck wrote:
| Never felt that way about my 13 mini
| abnercoimbre wrote:
| Do you still own it? I've kept my 13 mini so far, but I
| hope the browsing or app experience doesn't degrade anytime
| soon (battery's still great.)
| nunez wrote:
| I have two (personal and work); browsing websites is fine
| in a pinch, but it's not nearly as fast as the iPhone 16
| Pro that's in my drawer right now and I run into more
| Safari crashes than before. (I blame the modern web for
| that, not the phone.)
| jmkni wrote:
| 100% this, I spend less time glued to my phone and more time
| in the real world as a result, because of both the smaller
| size and the battery life
|
| I consider this a feature
| noisy_boy wrote:
| So you are saying you'll happily pay even more for an even
| smaller screen and worser battery life :)
| red369 wrote:
| In the reviews I read, the 13 mini was a significant upgrade
| in battery life, compared with the 12 mini. Since your 12
| mini is now old, even a used 13 mini (with good battery
| health) would probably be a significant upgrade. Apple
| battery replacements for these are not crazy prices either. A
| used but pristine 13 mini with battery replaced by Apple
| would probably be much, much cheaper than a 16e.
|
| If I sound like I'm trying to influence you're decision, my
| apologies! I really disliked the size of the SE 2022, which I
| bought to replace the last really good Apple phone (SE 2016),
| and that was much smaller than the 16e. I should have gone
| straight to the 13 mini - I was put off by no bezels, Face
| ID, and I guess like a sucker I wanted to buy another SE
| because I liked the one I had so much. :)
| xattt wrote:
| They'll be flipping the small-size formula by making it a
| premium feature, and calling it "Air" in the next couple of
| releases.
| robohoe wrote:
| Still using 12 mini! I'll take it to the grave with me
| coldpie wrote:
| The iPhone 13 Mini all by itself sold about the half of the
| rate of the entire Google Pixel lineup. There is a market for
| small phones from a reputable manufacturer.
|
| Source:
|
| Google shipped about 10 million Pixel phones in a year
| https://9to5google.com/2024/02/22/pixel-2023/
|
| iPhone Mini accounted for about 3% of iPhone sales
| https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l...
|
| iPhones sell about 200 million units per year
| https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/
|
| 200 million * 0.03 = 6 million iPhone Minis per year
| mdasen wrote:
| The thing I'd add is that Apple often achieves what it does
| by doing less. People assume that because Apple makes great
| things that they can make a lot of different great things.
| But that's where a lot of other companies falter: they make
| too many different things to really make a few great things.
|
| Small phones are also difficult. Memory, processors, and
| batteries don't shrink. For an iPhone mini, they're going to
| be shipping essentially the same chips taking up the same
| amount of space. That space is going to have to come at the
| expense of things like the battery and cooling. It's a lot
| easier to engineer something with looser tolerances. If you
| have a giant phone, it's easy to have extra room to keep the
| phone cool and stuff in a battery.
|
| It also probably meant limiting some choices for the rest of
| the iPhone lineup. Apple wants to be able to re-use
| components and to some extent it's going to mean that Apple
| either has to make choices that work for both a 6.1" and 5.4"
| form factor or do separate things.
|
| There is some demand for an iPhone mini. I love the iPhone
| mini. I also see the challenge for Apple.
|
| I think there's also a reason why we haven't seen a
| successful Android mini phone. It's hard to make a mini phone
| and the sales numbers are comparatively small.
|
| But maybe we'll see an iPhone mini in a few years time. If
| Apple can create an integrated CPU/modem/WiFi/Bluetooth chip,
| that could end up saving a decent amount of space while also
| reducing power requirements. Maybe we'll be able to go SIM-
| less around the world and that could save space.
|
| At the same time, it's hard to make the same number of people
| make another, more challenging form factor and it's hard to
| scale out with more people too. Plus, do you put your best
| engineers on the hardest project (the mini) when it's only 3%
| of sales? Or do you hire new, less experienced, possibly
| lower skilled people for that and hope you don't put out a
| product that isn't good?
|
| It's a tough challenge for a tiny amount of sales which,
| ultimately, aren't going to decide to leave Apple for Android
| where they also can't get a small phone.
| BenjiWiebe wrote:
| If small phones are difficult, why are phones getting
| larger as battery and semiconductor tech continues to
| improve?
|
| Advances in tech should allow phones to be smaller than
| ever for the same capabilities, or more capabilities for
| the same size than ever before.
| enragedcacti wrote:
| > why are phones getting larger as battery and
| semiconductor tech continues to improve?
|
| I don't doubt that the average phone has grown in size,
| the base iPhone has stayed roughly the same size for 7
| years at this point. The 16 is only 0.15"x0.03"x0.01"
| larger than the iPhone X from 2017 and the base iPhone
| peaked in height and width all the way back in 2019 with
| the iPhone 11.
|
| I think the simple answer is that they've pretty much
| found the sweet spot and even if there are people out
| there who want a smaller phone, most of them would still
| rather have the same size phone with more capability.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| "Big screen goooood" - social media addicted consumers
| Kwpolska wrote:
| The battery may be smaller, but the power draw of the GPU
| and screen will also be smaller.
| sdo72 wrote:
| still using my 13 mini after 3.5 years, the battery is at 84%,
| still good for 1.5 day of light usage.
| rplnt wrote:
| It might be a good idea to just buy the 13 mini. It's not like
| anything on phones got any better in the last 4 years. And it's
| still available, for roughly 30% less compared to before it was
| discontinued by Apple. Which might be the answer to your
| question actually.
| owenversteeg wrote:
| A handful of years ago, before anyone had figured out how to
| properly optimize for attention, we all had small-screen
| phones. The "small phone" problem is really just that it's not
| as addictive. Apple wants you to spend more time on-screen [0]
| and so do you [1.] I really hope you're not thinking about
| spending less time on-screen. Technology companies love you and
| care about you. They usually know what's best. You should
| probably just get a bigger screen.
|
| [0] see: massive financial incentives, developer tooling to
| help maximize engagement, product design focused on extended
| use, notoriously useless screen time feature etc
|
| [1] we don't have exact mini sales, but estimates are they were
| around 6% of total iPhone sales (aka: low, but billions a year
| in revenue, enough to keep barring other incentives) - more
| revenue than many other Apple products or the SE, for example.
| Even if you're Apple you don't axe billions in revenue for
| nothing!
| apparent wrote:
| Rumor is that the 17 will have an Air edition that will be
| thinner/lighter. It won't help the reach issues much but will
| make them nicer to hold for extended periods of time. IME the
| minis are nice because of both weight and the ability to
| comfortably use with one hand.
| beretguy wrote:
| I want a 4 inch screen. Like 1st Gen SE.
| ksec wrote:
| I am actually optimistic that we might get the mini again now
| the 16e is priced at $599. There is a space for Mini at $499.
|
| Part of the problem with Mini was its battery life. It seems
| 16e is improving on exactly that. Although I think it wont be
| 5.4" again since it was too small compared to the rest of the
| line up where it is usually 20% bigger screen to next size up.
|
| May be 5.6" or even 5.8" as the original X.
| bscphil wrote:
| It's especially disappointing to see that they killed off the
| SE with this release, as it was the previous inexpensive and
| smaller option. The screen alone on this new 16e is larger
| across the diagonal than the _entire device_ on the SE 3rd
| edition, and the SE famously had the traditional huge bezel.
| stefandesu wrote:
| Yes please. My new job just provided me with a new phone, but
| all the models are just too big. I guess I'll get used to it,
| but I'd rather have the current features in a Mini body.
| Coryodaniel wrote:
| Staying on my 13 mini until someone makes a dumb phone that
| doesn't suck.
| hot_gril wrote:
| cmd+f "jack" on Apple's page, got 0 results. Pass.
| sudovancity wrote:
| I thought it was going to be an actual modem... like they had
| previously.
| bentt wrote:
| Looks more and more that Apple is pushing AI inference to the
| edges, with this and the Mac Mini and it's very suspiciously
| placed power button which says "No, you don't need to shut this
| computer off. It has important work to do! (For everyone else)"
|
| Will be interesting to see how Apple and Nvidia's approaches to
| AI compare and contrast over the coming months/years.
| heywoods wrote:
| I am hoping Apple at some point in the future will allow iphone
| owners who also own a Mac with an M series chip to run Apple
| Intelligence from the Mac to take advantage of faster compute
| and larger parameter models while still operating at the
| 'edge'. If the apple private cloud tech allows for a Tailscale
| like connectivity between your mac and all iphone/ipads on an
| icloud account I could see that as an additional hook to stay
| inside the apple ecosystem in addition to the benefits brought
| to bear by having a much more capable LLM to offload compute to
| without involving 3rd party AI companies. Perhaps bundle the
| feature with iCloud+ subscription?
| dylan604 wrote:
| > It has important work to do! (For everyone else)
|
| Where do you get that macOS is running code like this? I've
| never heard of shared compute on my computer for anything other
| than software I deliberately installed. I haven't paid that
| close attention to the past couple of OS propaganda films at
| the start of WWDC. Did I miss something?
| nobankai wrote:
| Apple and Nvidia have arguably already diverged at the
| important forks in the road. Nvidia believes in complex
| GPU/streaming multiprocessor stacks - Apple relies on
| specialized hardware. Apple used to support a more complex
| software stack that could enable them to compete with Nvidia,
| but abandoned it shortly before the crypto craze to focus on
| NPU hardware.
|
| ...and then NPUs sorta did nothing. They run a few tiny models,
| maybe, but for any "serious" inference tasks Apple will
| automatically prioritize your 10x more powerful GPU hardware.
| Oftentimes the GPU is more efficient too, depending on the
| task.
|
| So now Apple has a choice to make. They can either attempt to
| scale-up the NPU hardware and leave it on-device as dark
| silicon 99% of the time, or they can renovate their GPU
| hardware to support complex GPGPU operations and axe the NPU
| altogether. Right now it seems like Nvidia has the right idea,
| Apple just needs to find out how to scale it down as well as
| they can.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Are you promoting some kind of conspiracy theory that Apple is
| using some people's devices to do inference for other people's
| devices?
|
| There's absolutely zero evidence of that, and it would be easy
| to observe it happening. So why are you pushing some kind of
| totally false narrative?
| paul7986 wrote:
| Does anyone else long for a new personal device (phone)
| maker/leader? A real AI phone where if you want you can have a
| full human like conversation (text, voice & video chat it
| recognizes gestures & emotions (facial expressions)) with your AI
| assistant from your lock screen.
|
| I use chatGPT while driving in the car to get things done & as a
| knowledge base, but I have to open the app to use it (not safe
| when driving).
|
| I have an iPhone 15 Pro and still with Siri's Apple Not-
| Intelligent I can only ask Siri one question at a time and I
| always have to say Hey Siri ask ChatGPT xyz and then to continue
| to learn more have to say that again with a follow-up question.
| It's such a terrible UX when compared to opening chatGPT and
| talking to it, yet again not safe to do so when driving!
| Tagbert wrote:
| You will likely need to wait for iOS 19 when they transplant an
| LLM into Siri for that kind interaction. Even then I'm not
| certain that Apple will go that direction.
| paul7986 wrote:
| Hopefully Open AI and Microsoft could release a true AI phone
| one that is like the movie H.E.R. where it does everything
| for you .. just like talking to a human via text, voice &
| video chat but ur human AI assistant. It interfaces with AI
| Agents of businesses, your friends, families and co-workers
| agents to get things scheduled, done, your knowledgebase on
| all things, etc for you.
|
| Though H.E.R. without falling in love with it.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| What I really want Apple to release is a foldable like Google
| Pixel and Samsung Galaxy's flagship models.
|
| The idea of having a normal screen on the front but then a second
| foldable screen inside is a great tradeoff between form and
| function.
|
| Unfortunately I can't see Apple releasing this because it harms
| their tablet sales. Hopefully I'm proven wrong though.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Have you used one? Is it really better?
|
| Putting aside the biggest issue which is a creased and more
| fragile screen, I'm not really convinced it's a better
| experience. Having more real estate for movies seems useful,
| but it's otherwise difficult to type/hold/tap on such a large
| screen without a full commitment to tablet usage (which often
| includes a stand). I'm also not really sure how often I'd use
| the larger format.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| The flagship foldables have two screens. A screen on the
| front that's a full sized screen just like any other smart
| phone screen of the last 10 years.
|
| But you can then fold the phone open to get access to that
| wider screen.
|
| So you get the best of both worlds, a normal phone handset
| for one handed action. But a larger screen for when you want
| something that's a little more "tablet" like.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Just to add, I too was originally put off by the crease in
| foldable displays. But if it's a second screen then I can
| actually live with that crease since it's not something
| that's going to affect casual use. It's just there for when
| a normal phone screen isn't enough. So it's almost like
| having a bonus screen rather than a crease in your main
| screen.
| dbtc wrote:
| The best of both worlds for me would be a device around the
| size of the "iphone mini", but with a thicker body, no
| camera bump, and the extra volume is all battery.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| Historically Apple hasn't really had a problem with
| cannibalizing their own sales - the $329 iPad, Apple Watch SE
| and this phone right here probably cannibalize sales of the
| more expensive SKUs, but they exist regardless.
|
| I suspect the real reason they haven't released a foldable yet
| is that foldables still need to have a soft plastic screen and
| a crease/bump in the middle, and Apple's design neuroticism
| would never permit them to ship such a thing.
| magicpin wrote:
| Agreed. Apple wouldn't tolerate anything but the faintest of
| lines down exactly the middle of the screen.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Yeah. Very true on all counts.
|
| I really don't want to leave Apples ecosystem but when my
| phone is due for renewal later this year, I'd seriously
| consider switching to Android if it meant getting a foldable
| screen.
| walterbell wrote:
| Apple is rumored to be working on foldable phone and tablet,
| https://www.macrumors.com/guide/foldable-ipad/
| subsHack wrote:
| 6.1"
|
| I used to think 4.7" was a bit too much. Holding onto SE 2016
| till death do us part.
| hot_gril wrote:
| I had an iPhone 5 until AT&T completely stopped supporting it.
| Would buy an SE, but I'm too skeptical of used phones.
| mcculley wrote:
| > the first cellular modem designed by Apple
|
| Whoah! Maybe Apple can now figure out how to put a cellular modem
| in a MacBook Pro.
| azinman2 wrote:
| But couldn't this previously have happened with a Qualcomm
| modem as well?
|
| You can always easily tether to your iPhone. It's hard to
| imagine people who own a Mac but don't have a phone -- I assume
| Android can also provide tethering? Aside from the BOM price
| increase and physical real estate, do want to pay $10/mo or
| whatever for an additional line?
| etchalon wrote:
| It could have, but my understanding is that Qualcomm's
| contracting is pretty brutal. They had no choice but to
| accept those terms with the iPhone. With the Mac, so long as
| they were selling without the modem, why bother?
| crazygringo wrote:
| People have been saying for years that this has always been
| part of the plan.
|
| That the only reason Apple never included a cellular modem in
| MacBooks is because it would raise their prices because they'd
| have to pay Qualcomm.
|
| Now that they won't, it seems inevitable.
| jvidalv wrote:
| Hopefully one they do a Pro Mini, fingers crossed.
| bustling-noose wrote:
| Think of the QC modem as an API and that API is limited to what
| QC wants apple or anyone else using their modem to do. The
| firmware is pushed by QC and then apple can use it to update it's
| modems of QC when it does it's now updates.
|
| Now with C1 that API is designed at apple and in a way that their
| soc team wants to get the best battery life along. So the modem
| can be turned off / on updated request data signals etc in a more
| efficient manner with the soc. On top of that apple probably
| cleaned up parts of the modem that they probably didn't feel were
| needed for their iPhones that maybe QC were obligated to include
| because of the way their modems had to be designed and sold.
|
| Now do this to Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and put everything in the soc
| and you are going to be getting solid gains sooner than later.
|
| This transition is very exciting cause I'm hoping this happens to
| MacBooks as well.
|
| Would love a 5G MacBook with a data plan.
| megous wrote:
| That's hard to believe. Even Quectel (random Chinese IoT modem
| manufacturer, which is also using Qualcomm modem SoCs) gets to
| have Qualcomm modem source code. I know, because they ship it
| modified with their own AT commands implemented and other
| changes. If random chinese company can ship modified Qualcomm
| modem firmware, Apple surely can, too. :D
|
| Massive chunks (millions of lines) of Qualcomm modem firmware
| (the part running on Hexagon DSP cores) are even leaked on
| github for anyone to see.
|
| Apple is bound to have uptodate and probably even completely
| source available Qualcomm firmware at its engineers'
| fingertips. And they have more leverage than random Chinese IoT
| manufacturer, to request ability to modify it as they see fit.
| And they'll certainly have at least the parts that are relevant
| for the control you're talking about.
|
| The decision most likely comes down to politics (any help
| optimizing qualcomm modems directly benefits everyone using
| them, and that's a lot of android phones out there), and not
| these kinds of technical issues.
| neom wrote:
| I took myself off the every new iphone train at the 12 pro when
| it came out. My screen is pretty beat down at this point and the
| battery is 75% of a day. I keep thinking to get new one but a) my
| 12 pro is actually still very capable and I like the form factor
| a lot b) figuring out what iphone to get (including looking at
| acceptable older model) is totally overwhelming c) I really hate
| ewaste. If anyone has been in a similar situation and done the
| research I'm all ears. Thanks!
| nindalf wrote:
| Why wouldn't you replace the battery? I replaced the battery on
| my 12 after 2 years for PS70 and got a phone that felt like
| after the replacement. And now, nearly 2 years later, I have no
| complaints. Maximum capacity 91%.
| officeplant wrote:
| $599, 128gb base model.
|
| Welp rip any interest a bunch of us had in an iphoneSE4.
|
| What a fucking waste of time. The sad thing is I can accept that
| apple continually wants miserable storage base tiers, that ship
| has sailed and they will never see 256gb as logical starting
| points on a phone so damn expensive when their computers start at
| that horrid storage point.
|
| If it was $499 I would have contemplated finally upgrading. At
| $599 I'll let everyone else beta test apples new modem in case
| its another 'you're holding it wrong' type of response if it
| underperforms in speed, connection quality, etc.
| layer8 wrote:
| The SE3 was 64 GB base, they upped the base storage here. I
| agree that the price isn't very attractive. Internationally
| it's even worse.
| officeplant wrote:
| When the SE2 and SE3 came out I yelled about the 64gb being
| complete shit then too. They consistently lag 5 years behind
| reasonable storage tiers for the price of the phone.
| layer8 wrote:
| I don't know about reasonable, I still don't use more than
| 100 GB, and I assume that many people don't really need
| more.
| officeplant wrote:
| Its a mix out there. Personally I prefer to keep 100+GB
| of music on me because cell service in 2025 still sucks,
| and so does music subscription service offerings.
|
| The average normal person I help with phones all seem to
| be running out of space but its usually done to junk apps
| they forgot they had, 60gb of grandkid videos, and 10
| years of texts they keep dragging along.
| turtlebits wrote:
| The SE was always a bad value prop. A used iPhone was always a
| much better value. The only reason I approve of the SE is that
| they get very cheap via the prepaid market (regularly <$100)
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| Lack of MagSafe is disappointing. How much would it have cost to
| include? It's an intriguing feature that distinguishes iPhones
| from Android competitors. I wonder if the intention was to avoid
| cannibalizing its more expensive siblings.
| hnburnsy wrote:
| $599 for 128GB with this caveat..
|
| >Available space is less and varies due to many factors. A
| standard configuration uses approximately 12GB to 24GB of space,
| including iOS 18 with its latest features and Apple Intelligence
| on-device models can be deleted if Apple Intelligence is turned
| off and use approximately 7GB of space. Turning on Apple
| Intelligence will download the models again. Apple apps that can
| be deleted use about 4.5GB of space, and you can download them
| back from the App Store. Storage capacity subject to change based
| on software version, settings, and iPhone model.
| hnaccount_rng wrote:
| That's just saying "The hard drive is 128GB, but your user
| directory only gets what the system doesn't need". Not at all
| surprising?
| STELLANOVA wrote:
| USB-C connector with support for: USB 2 (up to 480Mb/s)
|
| Can someone explain why they are pushing USB 2 speeds via USB-C
| connector in 2025? Can't believe it's cost... It's a shame.
| nlitened wrote:
| To be fair, I've not used the cable for anything but charging
| for at least five years
| STELLANOVA wrote:
| Backup/restore is one common usecase. It's painfully slow
| with current speed. AFAIK only Pro model support USB3 speeds.
| Someone more knowledgable can maybe explain if there is any
| technical/cost reason behind it (I honestly don't see one ).
| nlitened wrote:
| I believe most people do iCloud backup/restore nowadays. I
| only do manual backup/restore once every few years when I
| upgrade my iPhone (even then, I could probably do that via
| iCloud also)
| asdff wrote:
| The only issue is now you pay for icloud for life.
| Terrible service just try pulling a lot of photos off of
| it. Basically can't be done because no matter the tool
| you try you get connection timeout issues after a couple
| dozen photos. I have like 60k photos on a family members
| icloud account that we can't get at all. Stuck paying
| icloud now for that person. Frankly at this point I'd pay
| for physical media mailed if that were an option.
| philistine wrote:
| They design the chip that powers the phone. Apple designs their
| chips to include exactly the IO they need, and nothing more.
| The A18 chip does not have the IO to support USB-3 speeds on
| the port. No A18 device supports USB 3 speeds.
|
| It's maddening but it is a question of cost; it's just pennies,
| and Apple is for sure not passing on the savings to us.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| The 15 and 16 Pro lines support USB 3 speeds.
| urbandw311er wrote:
| Anybody able to point me to a table that compares this with the
| other recent iPhone in terms of main hardware, screen, camera
| etc. ?
| quesera wrote:
| https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16e,i...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_iPhone_models
| k310 wrote:
| For only $100 more, you can get an iPhone 15 without Apple
| Intelligence.
| dailykoder wrote:
| WOW I LOVE IPHONE
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| I sadly will pass. I know there was no Mini size coming..but
| still, one can hope. Anyway, I see absolutely ZERO reasons to
| switch from my iPhone 14 other than to help them beta test their
| new modem in the field. They already have been doing that with
| software releases (iOS specially) since iOS 12/13.
|
| A Mini would not have been a diminished experience/purchase even
| with lesser features. This is a diminished experience even for
| what it would cost.
| danieldevries wrote:
| 300+ comments about a 'new' iPhone. Does it even fold? Lol
| Aloisius wrote:
| 167g. Lighter than the 16, but still far too heavy.
| karmakaze wrote:
| So glad it doesn't use the dynamic island which is so distracting
| as it becomes the foreground and makes the content into
| background.
| chongli wrote:
| Now they don't have any phones with the old-style rounded bezel.
| The SE was the very last of them. I have a 12 mini and thing I
| really hate about it is the sharp, orthogonal bezel. It's very
| uncomfortable to hold for longer periods of time.
|
| I'm taking this as a sign from Apple that I use my phone too much
| and should probably stop.
| philip1209 wrote:
| Perhaps I'll finally update my 13 mini. I've been holding out
| hope that Apple will release another small form factor phone, but
| this may be the closest they will get.
| massysett wrote:
| I went from 13 mini to 16. I considered replacing the battery
| in the mini but a brand new 16 was so cheap with all the
| Verizon discounts and trade-in that it wasn't worth putting a
| new battery in an old phone.
|
| The 16 at first felt freakishly huge after years of the 13
| mini, but I've gotten used to it.
| philip1209 wrote:
| I was in a similar spot, but then I got a free battery
| replacement through Applecare [1], so I've stuck with it.
|
| [1] "Your product is eligible for a battery replacement at no
| additional cost if you have AppleCare+ and your product's
| battery holds less than 80% of its original capacity."
| https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement
| sprkv5 wrote:
| Is the iPhone "e" series going to be a yearly release now? Like
| the Pixel "a" series?
| huang_chung wrote:
| With disappearance of iPhone SE in United States you can no
| longer buy iPhone with physical SIM slot. But cross the border
| into Canada and you can buy exact same phone with the physical
| slot.
|
| This is a sad day and not progress in any meaningful way (social
| engineering away physical SIM, causing loss of flexibility when
| traveling).
| BuckRogers wrote:
| This might replace my 12 mini. But I'll probably use my phone
| until it's dead or out of support because this phone just works
| for me from a form factor perspective.
|
| It's unfortunate jumbotrons sell so well to the mindless masses
| that live on a phone. Otherwise the two main sizes would be the
| 5.42 and 6.3. Both reasonable for daily carry in a pocket. The
| 6.7 and 6.9" sizes are what are silly.
| amelius wrote:
| Article reads like an ad.
| adamsb6 wrote:
| > iPhone 16e will be available in white and black in 128GB,
| 256GB, and 512GB storage capacities, starting at $599 (U.S.) or
| $24.95 (U.S.) per month for 24 months.
|
| Wait a sec. 24 * 24.95 = $598.80
|
| They'll pay you twenty cents to take the financing?
| einpoklum wrote:
| Why do other manufacturers who debut phones don't get HN posts,
| but Apple does?
|
| Xiaomi Poco X7 & X7 pro were released in Janunary, for example.
| Don't see a post about that.
| shipscode wrote:
| Is bluetooth reliable yet or is this model going to be plagued
| with the same persistent issues since the iPhone 14?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-02-19 23:00 UTC)