[HN Gopher] Thoughts on Daylight Computer
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Thoughts on Daylight Computer
Author : 3r7j6qzi9jvnve
Score : 262 points
Date : 2025-02-19 03:41 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jon.bo)
(TXT) w3m dump (jon.bo)
| 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
| (not mine) was just checking what became of them and this review
| hit home
|
| I have no use for an android tablet like this, but as soon as
| they make a PC screen (either laptop or desktop) I'm pretty sure
| I'd buy one fast! Keep it up folks!
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| I turned my Daylight into a PC screen using this app, which
| worked like a charm: https://superdisplay.app/
| krupan wrote:
| That only works with Windows?
| 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
| There seem to be equivalent for linux (not tested)
| https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/use-tablet-or-phone-
| seco...
|
| That's an interesting idea! I'm a bit wary of latency if
| this all goes over wifi, but probably worth a try.
| 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
| While I was looking up such screens, these also seem to sell
| "quick refresh" PC screens: https://shop.dasung.com/
|
| Just did a quick search on HN and while it did get posted
| recent ones didn't get many comments, not many users perhaps?
|
| I'd be greedy and wish there was something in the middle (13 is
| tiny for desktop but there's no battery so it's not really
| laptop friendly; 25 is a bit too big for my desk), but
| perhaps...
| DecentShoes wrote:
| The Dasung monitors are cool, but those are actual Eink,
| whereas the Daylight tablet is LCD, so you'll have a wildly
| different experience between the two.
|
| There's a reflective lcd subreddit that discusses reflective
| lcd pc monitors, looks like at least one company is launching
| a commercial product soon.
| bpye wrote:
| I really hope to Modos e-ink display works out -
| https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitor
|
| They have their own FPGA based controller to enable much
| higher refresh rates and lower latency.
| layer8 wrote:
| There is https://eazeye.com/.
| WillAdams wrote:
| If it were some more reasonable spec than 24" 1920 x 1080 I
| would be far more interested.
| layer8 wrote:
| It's a hen and egg problem. There is little investment in
| the technology, because few people buy it.
|
| That being said, Full HD at that size (and even at 27") is
| still a fairly common resolution on the desktop.
| hedora wrote:
| It is still common, but there's a reason that it only
| shows up on landfill-ready devices (unless you count high
| hz gaming monitors).
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| About 9 months ago, they promised that they will unlock the
| bootloader so one can install and run linux on it [1]. Hoping
| this happens soon.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40459958
| plagiarist wrote:
| I would buy one if this comes to fruition.
| tebuevd wrote:
| not an expert, but i think that's already available?
|
| https://www.daylighthacker.wiki/unlock
| plagiarist wrote:
| Oh, interesting! I'll have to check into what the state of
| Linux on these are.
| 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
| Unlocking the bootloader by itself is allowed apparently:
| https://www.daylighthacker.wiki/unlock
|
| The problem is that in order to run linux you'll probably want
| a kernel with quite a few patches and their DTS, and I haven't
| found anything for this yet. Android is almost linux so with a
| bit of effort it's probably not unreachable, but I don't quite
| have the time for this yet... If someone does it then Linux
| with an external keyboard would probably work for me as well,
| there was someone who did it with the remarkable (it's already
| linux but they ran standard X11 on it), but the refresh rate
| was a bit too sluggish, something like the daylight computer
| would probably do nicely!
| krupan wrote:
| I've had a DC-1 for a few months now and this review sums it up
| nicely. The one thing I'd say was missed is that you actually can
| assign actions to the extra physical buttons with apps like Key
| Mapper
| jborichevskiy wrote:
| author here- great to know, thanks!
| Shank wrote:
| > For some reason every bluetooth keyboard I have tried so far
| glitches every so often and sends double or triple keys or
| occasionally the same key a couple dozen times with no way to
| stop it from happening.
|
| This would make the device unusable to me. I wonder if others
| have had the same issue? Fundamentally, I need typing to be
| reliable. I guess this probably doesn't happen via USB keyboards?
| t-3 wrote:
| That sounds to me like some kind of retransmission error - a
| packet with a keystroke is being sent but the ack is not
| received so another packet is sent? I know nothing at all about
| if/how bluetooth actually manages reliability though, so could
| be unlikely or totally impossible.
| TickleSteve wrote:
| packets are sequenced, integrity checked and encrypted to
| prevent replay attacks so unlikely to be a simple "send
| packet again" issue. More likely a key debounce issue or
| driver issue.
| konradb wrote:
| I get this when using my Bose QC bluetooth headphones near my
| keyboard. Sometimes it doesn't happen much, sometimes it
| happens every half hour. It doesn't happen when I don't use the
| BT headphones. I wonder if this issue is something to do with
| interference or radio power or faulty bluetooth stacks.
| cies wrote:
| bluetooth is a ghetto of a protocol. sad though, as the use
| case is well so damn useful.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904442
| hedora wrote:
| Sounds like rf interference from your computer or something.
| Try getting a 3-6' USB extension cable, and plug a Bluetooth
| dongle into it, then route it away from your machine.
| ikari_pl wrote:
| It reassures me that going with an Onyx Boox Tab Pro was the
| better choice. Full e-ink, not e-Paper, but still can switch to a
| mode where you could, if you want, watch a movie. Backlight is
| not crazy orange, it's what you want (warmth controlled
| separately from brightness). Ignores hand when you use the
| stylus, or at least, uses hands gestures for different things
| than the stylus and I never had the issue. Bluetooth keyboard
| works OK. And it's Android (that's a plus for me, you have good
| software variety), with Google Services.
| Seattle3503 wrote:
| I looked at Boox devices, but they lag Android versions to the
| point where it becomes a security concern.
| partdavid wrote:
| My Boox is pretty crap. My use case is Libby for library
| books and the display refreshing and other things make it
| almost unusable. Feels super cheap, unsupported.
| noduerme wrote:
| Wow. This is so different from my experience with my Boox.
| I like the add ons they made to improve the Android UI for
| e-ink purposes, and every weekly update makes it better.
| Feels extremely well supported to me.
| noduerme wrote:
| I love my Boox (nova C color). Draw on it, write hundreds of
| pages of journals on it longhand, read essays, newspapers and
| comics and books on it daily. For the past couple years. I gave
| up other tablets once I got it.
|
| What it is NOT good at is doom scrolling, social media, or
| video. The format and refresh rate actively discourage that...
| and also, the battery may go all day with wifi off, but it
| drains pretty quickly once you're online. It is definitely an
| offline device, with the full range of Android functionality
| (and amazing offline handwriting recognition).
|
| I take it out to read and write for hours every evening, and
| don't carry anything else. Bar none the best device I've ever
| owned for mixing creative and literary pursuits and turning my
| back on the shittified internet.
| fifticon wrote:
| I for one would love crazy orange :-) There are, almost, dozens
| of us!
| graemep wrote:
| They look like good products, but my daughter had a really bad
| experience with them - she bought one, it arrived with the
| screen broken, and they refused to accept that was possible and
| said she must have broken it and refused a refund.
| stringsandchars wrote:
| Unfortunately Onyx Boox have used sockpuppets and other dirty
| tricks on Reddit[0] and elsewhere to harass and deter users
| reporting broken screens. Their international partners have
| webpages explaining how it's "impossible" that e-ink screens
| can be damaged or broken without you dropping or sitting on
| them[1] And in general the company is hostile to anyone with
| damaged devices or issues of other sorts.
|
| Although no-one is perfect, I really like Supernote and their
| way of developing as much as possible in the open[2]. The
| devices are really great to use[3]
|
| [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/19czc16/a_gen
| era...
|
| [1] https://einktab.ca/dealing-with-a-broken-e-ink-screen-
| what-y...
|
| [2] https://trello.com/b/l0COP24j/supernote-a5-x-a6-x-nomad-
| soft...
|
| [3] https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2025/01/18/2335
| chewmieser wrote:
| Throwing another vote out there for Supernote. Very
| responsive, particularly around handwriting - which feels
| flawless. Been a perfect device for me, but more limited
| than a Boox. That's fine for my use-case, but still worth
| calling out.
| criddell wrote:
| Sounds like an easy thing to dispute through your credit card
| company.
|
| Also check your card benefits. Mine has theft and damage
| coverage and I've used it to replace a phone I dropped.
| graemep wrote:
| She was really busy and left it too late to go to the card
| company by the time she had finished arguing with them.
| DecentShoes wrote:
| What if they didn't buy it on a credit card? I think I've
| bought 6 or 7 things on a credit card my entire life. I
| don't like pointless debt.
| criddell wrote:
| > What if they didn't buy it on a credit card?
|
| Then they have fewer options.
| criddell wrote:
| I personally am avoiding Onyx until they come into compliance
| with the GPL.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23735962
| Animats wrote:
| From the picture, it has the low-contrast look of an older E-ink
| display. Here's a higher-contrast E-ink display.[1]
|
| There are also emissive display laptops brighter than 1000 nits,
| which is about where they become sunlight-readable. Battery life
| might be a problem.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GKVM94N1F6E
| rpastuszak wrote:
| MacBook pro M4 with a low-glare display and 1600 nits iirc
| works OK outdoors but still doesn't get close to eink in my
| opinion.
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| The lower contrast is because it's not e-ink (with the very
| slow refresh times that implies). It's something more like an
| LCD.
| WillAdams wrote:
| Yes, my take on this has always been, "Trying to outbright the
| sun with a battery-powered device is _not_ a brilliant
| approach." which is why I've always preferred transflective
| displays (and despair of replacing my Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4110
| which was one of my most favourite computers, and probably the
| longest-lived --- still boot it up occasionally to use a
| scanner, and I'd use it for more if an 800MHz Pentium could
| cope with today's JavaScript on today's Web...)
| sneak wrote:
| Every time I read something like this it strikes me as so
| incredibly odd that people are into sunlight.
|
| For me, direct sunlight is a 100% negative experience. It's
| physically dangerous to skin, generally unhealthy if you aren't
| Vitamin D deficient, extremely bright, causes wild temperature
| flux throughout normal working hours, etc.
|
| I have spent a lot of time and a fair bit of money making sure
| natural sunlight never reaches the places I regularly work and
| sleep. I would live deep underground if I could. The incessant
| changes in light, temperature, humidity (even indoors) are a
| constant annoyance that must be compensated for.
|
| It's a wonder to me that anyone enjoys such experiences.
| nehal3m wrote:
| Okay guys, who welcomed Nosferatu onto HN? I'll get the
| garlic...
| saagarjha wrote:
| Some of us touch grass
| nunodonato wrote:
| dude, you definitely need to get outside more often...
| sneak wrote:
| Why's that?
| smusamashah wrote:
| Do you have anything as a backup to say its physically
| dangerous and generally unhealthy?
| cies wrote:
| It's only unhealthy when the (1) the sun is out (no clouds),
| (2) the "shadows are short" (sun over 45deg angle), (2)
| there's no (semi-)cover, and (3) you are in there already
| over ~15min for that day (this is different per skin type and
| tan-level).
|
| Below that it's very healthy.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Are you a vampire?
|
| Insufficient Sun Exposure Has Become a Real Public Health
| Problem https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7400257/
| cies wrote:
| You do not have to be in direct sunlight to be in a place with
| that's sun lit.
|
| Say I'm on my porch with a bright sun lit background, but not
| in the sun myself. I'd love to work there, but I cannot read my
| screen.
| sneak wrote:
| Sunlight is so wildly inconsistent, though. It changes
| temperature, angle, and intensity so fast, and it is far far
| too bright for the majority of the time it is available.
|
| Electric light suffers from none of these problems.
| world2vec wrote:
| Funny, I am exactly the opposite of you and find your post
| absolutely alien.
| Tepix wrote:
| I think you're misinformed. Sunlight has way more benefits than
| drawbacks.
|
| See https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5129901/
|
| Just feeling the warmth of the sun on your skin is a delight,
| it's also delightful to be outside (even if perhaps in a shadow
| or half-shadow) and read something.
| sneak wrote:
| No, the assumption that it is universally delightful for
| people is an incorrect one. The heating caused by the sun on
| my skin is not enjoyable at all.
|
| I would remain indoors forever if it were possible. I find
| being outside to be just as archaic as swimming in the middle
| of the open ocean; unnecessary and uncomfortable.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| It's not about sitting directly in the sun, it's about sitting
| in well-lit, open environments. Normal laptop screens cannot
| handle that very well, and they cannot handle direct sunlight
| at all.
|
| The ideal application for this technology is in a smart phone.
| That's the device that people use most out doors.
|
| Also don't forget that there are a lot of people who work
| outdoors and need to check things and write things down when
| they're in the field.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| 'Silo'
| est wrote:
| rlcd display panels are coming this year. Looking foward to buy
| one.
| moffkalast wrote:
| That looks pretty interesting, I'd think a regular LCD would
| already be fully capable of working this way if you swapped the
| diffuser + backlight for a reflective white sheet? They are
| transparent after all.
| mintplant wrote:
| That's very exciting! Do you have any more information on that?
| jgrahamc wrote:
| I have one of these and I'm just about ready to give it away. The
| problem is it doesn't fit a use case that I don't have better
| solutions for. I've found that writing on the screen makes me
| prefer paper; reading on the screen makes me prefer books. I
| wanted to like the DC-1 but every time I use it something feels
| off. Maybe that's partly because I don't enjoy the Android
| experience.
| jmspring wrote:
| The android experience is off putting, that said I haven't put
| much time into customizing or playing with my dc1 yet.
|
| I found the design poor - reminds me of a first gen iPad. Too
| much wasted real estate.
|
| I need to spend more time with it, but I still prefer my iPad
| Pro.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| I've written about this before, but I too gave up on my
| Daylight - even though I truly love what they are trying to
| accomplish.
|
| I found it:
|
| - oddly heavy, the Daylight is made of all plastic (body &
| screen) - yet it's heavier than an iPad Air made from metal &
| glass.
|
| - handwriting lag, the input lags when I use the pen is so much
| that it distracts me while writing a sentence. I have to
| concentrate to ensure it's keeping up with each letter I write.
| No such lag exists with my iPad Air.
|
| - no setup instructions or tutorial on its unique gestures. You
| boot it up and have to figure out how it works and getting it
| on WiFi
|
| - display resolution is much worse than I was expecting.
|
| - when using chrome, webpages render incredibly small. I'm
| having to constantly zoom in. There's a setting in chrome about
| "desktop mode" but it made no difference.
|
| And I also wasn't expecting to have to sign up for a Google
| account to even get Daylight OS/software updates. (Maybe I
| don't but that's what the Google App Store made it seem like).
|
| Wish I had read this review before I had bought it.
| https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/20/24201356/daylight-compute...
|
| * Note: I truly love the idea of Daylight, _and I hope they
| succeed_. But in my mind, a considerable device improvement
| needs to be made to realize that vision.
|
| Until then, I'll revert back to using my iPad Air (and now with
| nano-texture coming more broadly across Apple lines, Daylight
| is going to have that much more to overcome - because _Apple is
| also cheaper product_ ).
| adolph wrote:
| From theverge review:
|
| _the fact that I can slide my fingernail between the display
| and the case and literally pry the thing apart_
|
| As long as it doesn't RUD, opening with no tools seems like a
| feature but the review reads like its a bug.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| If the manufacture intends for you to separate the display
| from case, then it's a feature.
|
| If it's not intended, it's a fit & finish issue.
|
| I imagine it's not intended.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > As long as it doesn't RUD, opening with no tools seems
| like a feature but the review reads like its a bug.
|
| What is RUD?
| theodric wrote:
| Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly, a rocketry euphemism for
| an explosion
| JadeNB wrote:
| That makes more sense. My brain immediately suggested R&D
| + FUD = Research, Uncertainty, and Doubt, which is a fair
| description of life in academia but didn't seem relevant
| here.
| throw10920 wrote:
| > handwriting lag, the input lags when I use the pen is so
| much that it distracts me while writing a sentence
|
| Oh, that's a deal-breaker for me.
|
| I currently have a Remarkable 2, and the handwriting latency
| is _imperceptible_ - it feels like I 'm writing with a
| physical pen. However, the latency of doing anything _except_
| writing is very high - it takes almost a second to undo /redo
| or open the pen palette, for instance.
|
| The advertised 60Hz display of the Daylight and the
| underlying Android platform (that makes it possible for me to
| write my own applications, something that is technically
| possible but difficult and unreliable on the RM2) made it
| sound like an upgrade, but if handwriting latency is bad
| enough that it doesn't feel like paper anymore, I think I'll
| stick with a combination of my RM2 and desktop.
|
| Theoretically this is something fixable in software (in which
| case I'm sold), but from what I've heard about Android, it's
| very much _not_ latency-optimized in either the video or
| audio space.
| dingnuts wrote:
| How well can you see the iPad Air when you're sitting
| outside? That's why I like my Daylight, for doing Duolingo
| (with handwriting to enhance memory formation) and reading
| Reddit/HN (in Firefox Mobile which doesn't have the problem
| you describe with Chrome) on my patio
|
| I've also found that my eyes are physically repulsed by the
| brightness of OLED displays after using my Daylight for a few
| hours indoors with the brightness down. It is much easier on
| my eyes and much less addictive / attractive than my phone.
|
| An iPad Air's screen is still going to hijack my dopamine
| system like my phone does. The Daylight doesn't. I bought a
| Daylight because I wanted a healthier device, and it
| delivered on THAT promise.
|
| But you're right, if you only have OLED Tablet use-cases,
| it's not an OLED Tablet, so an OLED Tablet is better for
| those things.
| hedora wrote:
| Yeah; I was really excited about this, but then saw it ran
| android.
|
| Hard pass. I have an android tablet laying around, and never
| use it.
|
| A Linux version / polished installable rom would make it
| compelling for me, especially if it included stuff from the
| kindle jailbreak community. Other than that, the ability to
| ssh, a shell with apt or apk, running vs code, and a web
| browser would cover a big chunk of my daily driver
| requirements. Bonus points for docker.
| tombert wrote:
| Interesting; the reason I wanted one was specifically because I
| wanted to have an Android e-ink reader so that I could use the
| O'Reilly Learning app with an e-ink screen. The Kindle Fire
| screen is "fine", but the e-paper stuff always was nicer for me
| to read off of.
|
| I can't read my own handwriting anymore, so "real" paper is out
| of the question for me.
| dmicah wrote:
| Also keep in mind that the Daylight doesn't have an e-ink
| screen like a Kindle. It is instead a grayscale transflective
| LCD. That is why it is able to have a high refresh rate like
| other LCD panels.
| tombert wrote:
| I did not realize that. I don't think I want that then.
|
| Maybe I should try out the remarkable.
| zwayhowder wrote:
| I use a Boox Note 2 almost daily for reading and
| regularly with a bluetooth keyboard for writing. It has a
| stylus, and the OCR is good enough for even my terrible
| handwriting (I should have been a doctor apparently) and
| I use that to scribble in the margin of PDFs etc.
|
| My setup uses Autosync [1] to synchronise a folder from
| my desktop to the device. On my desktop I have Zotero (a
| Citation library) and Calibre both configured to export
| to that folder (in subfolders). With two way sync my
| notes are back on my PC almost instantly which is
| fantastic.
|
| I also run Readwise and Obsidian on the Boox.
|
| 1: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxa
| pps.au...
| tombert wrote:
| > OCR is good enough for even my terrible handwriting
|
| Challenge accepted! _I_ can 't even read my own
| handwriting anymore, I would be incredibly impressed if
| an OCR can.
|
| It's sort of a feedback loop; my handwriting is bad, so I
| type everything, so I never use a pen, so I don't
| practice my handwriting, so my handwriting gets worse. As
| it stands, I don't think I've written anything with pen
| and paper (other than a signature) since ~2021?
|
| I've thought about picking up something in the Boox
| series but they've always been just a bit too pricey for
| me to justify; I'm afraid it would be yet another tablet
| thing that I use for a week and then just ends up
| collecting dust under my bed (of which I have a bunch).
| mkl wrote:
| > I can't even read my own handwriting anymore, I would
| be incredibly impressed if an OCR can.
|
| An online OCR system like this has more information than
| you do as it knows stroke order, direction, and possibly
| timing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are devices that
| can read writing the writer can't.
| ge96 wrote:
| Semi-related: I had a Remarkable 2 and the best part of it for
| me was the texture writing. I decided to use a Surface Book 3
| but the writing isn't the same... probably will try one of
| those textured surface cover things.
|
| E-ink is interesting as it's nice wrt long battery life but the
| slowness sucks too and this is not about the Android devices
| with an e-ink screen. RM2 you could program so that was cool.
| jebarker wrote:
| > I've found that writing on the screen makes me prefer paper;
| reading on the screen makes me prefer books.
|
| I had the same experience with Remarkable. I've found I'm much
| happier now that I bought a color laser printer and just print
| things I want to read! Similarly, I take all my notes on paper
| and have a sheet feed scanner for digitization
| rcarmo wrote:
| Well, I'm quite happy with the Supernote Nomad, but will gladly
| take the DC-1 off your hands if you want to because I would
| love a screen with faster refresh to run Obsidian locally :)
| MPSFounder wrote:
| If you decide to give it away, I will happily pay for shipping.
| I could use it as a PhD student!
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| I'm not sure I'm _there_ yet (giving it away) but similarly
| annoyed by some of its teething pains. For me it seems to do
| all the things, and it runs longer than my iPad pro does on a
| charge (and like the OP author I suspect that is entirely
| because I run the display as near 0 brightness)
|
| I really appreciate using it as a writing device in portrait
| mode, something that I really wish the iPad pro could do with
| its "magic" keyboard. I continue to look for more intuitive
| drawing solutions.
|
| I also agree with the author that Android has that 'dos' feel
| of poorly bodged together hardware specific drivers/stuff and
| OS stuff.
|
| As a result it hasn't replaced my ReMarkable 2 like I thought
| it might, I'd really love the RM2 to have a higher refresh rate
| than it does alas.
| AlanYx wrote:
| One thing about the DC-1 that this piece doesn't mention is the
| graininess of the display. It's not resolution-related... on a
| pure white background the display looks slightly speckled, like
| it has some film grain. I find this impairs readability of small
| text. (Matte and nano texture displays on many devices often have
| some degree of graininess on pure white, but it's more prominent
| on the DC-1 than I'm used to.) Perhaps it's related to the Wacom
| layer rather than the RLCD tech itself, I'm not sure.
| jim180 wrote:
| Sounds like nano texture from Apple. Much less reflective than
| standard glass, but with added graininess, which is clearly
| visible to me :(
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Thank you for saving me a nice chunk of change by closing out
| my eternal debate about whether or not to pony up for a nano
| texture screen.
| throw-qqqqq wrote:
| This topic is very subjective IMO.
|
| Some love the glossy screens, others the matte ones. And
| this is really what it comes down to for me.
|
| I would try getting a chance to view the difference in
| person before deciding.
| AlanYx wrote:
| Yes, I find that there are differences in eye strain
| between the regular and nanotexture displays, even in a
| dark room with no reflections. It's worth trying both.
| One interesting difference between the two that not a lot
| of people realize is that the light emitted by the
| regular screen is circularly polarized, while the
| nanotexture is largely non-polarized.
| zachh wrote:
| Can you explain more about what that means / share a link
| to further reading? Tried searching but couldn't find
| much online about the light polarization specifically,
| and am interested in the nanotexture for reducing eye
| strain.
| AlanYx wrote:
| There's some evidence that CPL emissive screens cause
| less eyestrain than linearly polarized emissive screens
| (e.g., https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9010255),
| although the evidence there is not wildly strong. If you
| have a pair of RealD 3-D glasses (CPL filters) and look
| at a nanotexture iPad, you'll see that the nanotex layer
| decoheres the polarization of the underlying display,
| which is more like how normal (reflective) paper behaves.
| zachh wrote:
| Very helpful, thank you!
| jim180 wrote:
| Sure. I just wish I could buy both, test for a month or
| so and then keep the one I like more.
|
| Visiting Apple Store every other day, when I was visiting
| the US did not help much. So I stayed with standard
| glass.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Indeed: only trying them both side by side at home would
| yield a useful conclusion. Trying to gauge which would be
| better for you from the Apple Store display would be
| about as useless as trying to decide which big TV to buy
| from Best Buy based on how they all look in the store,
| with settings completely other than those you'd use at
| home.
| AlanYx wrote:
| The grain on the DC-1 is quite a bit more noticeable than the
| grain on Apple's nanotexture displays. I don't find the
| latter distracting, but I found that I couldn't really read
| PDFs with small text on the DC-1 because of the grain. (Some
| of that is probably resolution-related too, to be fair.)
| rcarmo wrote:
| That's likely the textured layer for the pen feel/grippiness.
| It's fine on most e-ink devices I've tested.
| Certified wrote:
| Whatever happened to the transflective lcds that were popular in
| carputers in the 2000s? They seem to be a perfect fit for a
| tablet and I have been puzzled that no one has jumped on using
| them in one.
|
| from the transflective wikipedia page [1]
|
| "A transflective liquid-crystal display is a liquid-crystal
| display (LCD) with an optical layer that reflects and transmits
| light (transflective is a portmanteau of transmissive and
| reflective). Under bright illumination (e.g. when exposed to
| daylight) the display acts mainly as a reflective display with
| the contrast being constant with illuminance. However, under dim
| and dark ambient situations the light from a backlight is
| transmitted through the transflective layer to provide light for
| the display. The transflective layer is called a transflector. It
| is typically made from a sheet polymer. It is similar to a one-
| way mirror but is not specular."
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-
| crystal_d...
| xnx wrote:
| The daylight computer is a transflective LCD with fancy
| marketing.
| Certified wrote:
| Thanks for pointing that out. I thought it was some sort of
| variation on an E-ink display because of the black and white
| limitation. Nothing about transflective tech limits it from
| full color other than price. I guess that leads me to an
| evolution of my question: Why are no* tablets using full
| color transflective displays?
|
| *I did find the HannsNote2 [1] does, but it only came out
| last year, and this tech has been around for donkey's years.
|
| [1] https://www.hannspree.com/product/hannsnote2
| layer8 wrote:
| There is https://eazeye.com/.
| numpad0 wrote:
| LEDs replaced CCFL tubes in backlighting. LED was still too
| dark until iPhone 4S or 5, but once it became bright enough and
| automatic brightness control matured, it quickly eliminated
| needs for transflective displays.
|
| Transflective displays are also generally "low quality" in eyes
| of regular consumers. That drives down margins and eliminate
| less flashy options.
| WillAdams wrote:
| They don't showroom well, so were discontinued outside of
| nautical usage and special-purpose outdoor devices.
|
| Unfortunate, my Stylistic Fujitsu ST-4110 w/ transflective
| display was one of my favourite devices ever.
| rtpg wrote:
| Regarding the comment about using the laptop in a hammock... I
| really wish I could have some sort of keyboard that was "good for
| typing" but that I could just hold onto in my hands. Many times I
| would like to type something up, but don't want a computer on my
| lap.
|
| Just something shaped like some cylinders to grip yet somehow are
| able to piggyback on existing touch typing knowledge sounds cool
| to me (but might be unreasonably heavy or something)
| jodrellblank wrote:
| I've never seen one that's "good for typing" but:
|
| TapStrap 2: https://www.tapwithus.com/product/tap-strap-2/
|
| The ancient Twiddler2 wearable chording keyboard:
| https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/the-twiddler-chorded...
|
| The never productised Senseboard:
| https://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/virtuella-tangenter-gor-nytt...
|
| The never productised DataEgg chording:
| https://www.friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/
| JackMorgan wrote:
| I've got an Alphagrip that's pretty good but I ended losing
| my speed with it when Swype touchscreens came out and I was
| faster with them.
|
| https://www.alphagrip.com/
| Gracana wrote:
| > scrolling, panning, videos, gifs. It all feels as it should
|
| Is it really that good?
|
| Okay, I found a video... Wow!
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHeIw9rXzUQ
|
| Very expensive right now, too much to impulse buy, and the OS is
| not what I want. I would like a chunky little laptop with this
| display tech.
| spondyl wrote:
| I really enjoy my DC-1 but after a quick skim, I didn't notice
| any mention of the screen's ability to scratch.
|
| I took mine in a backpack up to my parents place and apparently
| something lightly caused a scratch on the screen so now I just
| have a permanent little gouge.
|
| Thankfully I've learned to ignore it over time but yeah, don't
| assume it's as indestructible as a lot of screens.
|
| The DC-1 does/did ship with a padded cover which makes me think
| it doubled as the engineering fix for when/if they realised that
| might be an issue.
| officeplant wrote:
| Vast majority of e-ink devices have little to no scratch
| resistance and need covers. Are people so used to gorilla glass
| that they forget other displays exist now?
|
| A rare exception is the BigME E-ink phones but those have
| glossy glass over the screens and a matte screen protector to
| combat the gloss.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| >Are people so used to gorilla glass that they forget other
| displays exist now?
|
| Yes? Phones have gotten incredibly scratch resistant over the
| years. It's kind of expected that portable devices will do a
| good job of this because they get moved a lot.
|
| Not saying it's easy with e-ink and touch capabilities
| though, it may be very hard. However, I can see why someone
| would expect it to 'just work'.
| spondyl wrote:
| I've been pretty unloving to my various Kobo's and Boox
| devices without any major issues so I guess I'm just not used
| to it
| circuit10 wrote:
| Random idea: could someone make a display like this for the
| Framework laptop?
| headclone wrote:
| Fantastic idea -- I would be in the market for this, doubly so
| if it could be easily swapped with an OLED.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| I've got one coming my way hopefully in next 2 months..
|
| I kind of see it similarly to this review - a new category of
| device and not quite a 1-1 replacement of anything I have.
|
| I have reluctantly owned Kindles & iPads since v1 of each, and
| don't particularly like either.
|
| For me the iPad is always the 2nd (or 3rd) best device - if I'm
| seated indoors at a table or sofa, a MacBook is better.. if I'm
| on the go, a big iPhone is better.. if I am doing book length
| reading, a kindle is better. I can go a week or three without
| picking up my iPad. I find the OS annoyingly close to being a
| proper mini MacOS that never quite gets close enough in terms of
| multitasking/etc. It almost would be better by not trying to do
| so many things.
|
| That said I find Kindles to be the worst tech product I regularly
| use, hands down. It's good for reading books in bed, thats
| basically it. But its so much better at that, I use it daily.
|
| All the notetaking/highlighting/sharing functionality is garbage.
| Attempts to download/purchase more books on it are clunky enough
| I just wait til I'm back at phone/desktop. It also has the most
| bizarre ad targeting showing me content I would never read
| despite having nearly 20 years of my reading history.
|
| I've even tried the Remarkable (v1) for a couple years as a work
| note-taking device.
|
| So I'm hoping the Daylight solves the "3rd device" issue a bit
| better, but tbd. Light computing, mostly for reading, plus some
| light note taking, touch & keyboard, better battery life and a
| screen that works outdoors.
| Daegalus wrote:
| I had a similar adventure.
|
| I ended up with a Meebook E-Reader P78 Pro. It is an android
| based e-reader with a stylus and note-taking capabilities. Even
| has the ability to enable Google Play Store.
|
| I added Kindle, Library, and Audiobookshelf to mine, along with
| Obsidian and some note taking stuff. it works fairly well,
| nowhere near perfect, but its also much cheaper than the DC-1.
|
| Maybe look into that also. There might be newer versions or
| alternatives. Maybe something from Boox
| Daegalus wrote:
| Just to add, I bought this primarily for Reading, and note
| taking second on occasion.
| pgalvin wrote:
| I may have misunderstood your comments on Kindles. How are they
| the worst tech product you use, if you also think they're the
| best at their intended purpose? Do you mean that you still find
| e-ink technology lacking, but there is nothing better?
| cbm-vic-20 wrote:
| Since I couldn't find a link anywhere, available for preorder for
| US$729:
|
| https://daylightcomputer.com/
| jboggan wrote:
| I have the Fintie case he mentioned and it does work very nicely.
|
| I love my Daylight so far but I received it right at the end of
| the season that I would want to be working outside. Spring is
| just around the corner here in Georgia so I am looking forward to
| putting it to work in the wifi-enabled woods behind my barn
| office.
|
| It's very good though and latency is good enough to watch
| Broodwar videos on YouTube and still enjoy the content (though of
| course the colors are off).
| vednig wrote:
| this is awesome, thanks for sharing
| ct0 wrote:
| r/writerdeck
| G8RZMPKhX wrote:
| I've had a DC-1 for several months now. My biggest fear is that
| the company won't make a second version. I think I can truthfully
| say this is the one digital device I've actually been excited to
| own!
|
| I have two primary usecases - reading on the train and taking
| notes in meetings. On the first - being a full Android, I can use
| apps or a web browser, and it's extremely responsive and highly
| legible. On the notetaking side - hands down, the best experience
| I've had with a digital product - for comparison, I've got a
| Remarkable 2 tablet sitting on my desk, and by comparison,
| remarkable's writing delay is noticeably uncomfortable.
|
| I wish they had an official cover (I've found an acceptable
| generic on amazon). For the retro-computing feel, there's
| definitely something surreal in watching a B&W movie on a B&W
| device.
|
| I honestly don't miss the color spectrum, so unless you're doing
| some work that actually _requires_ color, I would definitely
| recommend this device. Somehow, it gets the "less distraction"
| thing right. And the software support will improve with time.
| timvdalen wrote:
| Do the orange buttons work for anyone? The Reader app mentions
| that they're supposed to be for sending feedback, but they've
| never done anything for me.
| somberi wrote:
| I have one and agree with the technical issues mentioned in this
| thread. This is my first experience with a writing tablet,
| although I have occasionally dabbled with an iPad with a stylus.
|
| What draws me to use this device is that it creates a sense of
| "roominess," allowing me to lean back and consume, write, and
| engage in a non-aggressive way. This quality is something I miss
| in my other devices.
|
| The monochrome display makes playing Wordle harder :).
| VyseofArcadia wrote:
| I quite like mine, but I haven't done any work work on it. No
| typing or anything. I've read a couple of books on it, I've read
| some manga (perfect match for the monochrome screen), and I've
| taken some notes on some papers that I'm working through. I'm
| impressed with the battery, and I've been using it every single
| day since I got it. Mindblowing? No. Just a nice reading
| experience. Perfect if you want something larger form-factor than
| the kindle with more apps to side-load, if that's your thing.
|
| As for the UI, etc, it's just Android with a non-standard
| launcher. They didn't even write the launcher, it's a launcher
| you can get off the app store. It's pretty vanilla except for the
| gestures for back/home. Whether or not this bothers you is
| probably a function of how much you like or dislike a pretty
| vanilla Android experience.
| 52-6F-62 wrote:
| Is it really computing if you're just using it like a pad of
| paper? Is it worth all the noxious process to manufacture it?
|
| I like a different tool as much as the next person, but I think
| before we jump to the most complicated to for the job we should
| align our priorities..
| markbergz wrote:
| Thank you for writing this up, I'm glad I'm not the online one
| with the Android issues. Being able to put any software on it is
| nice, but it comes with a cost. The default Android jank along
| with the custom home screen makes the product difficult to use. I
| only wanted to read ebooks on the device but even that experience
| is not great and the reader app that comes with the device seems
| to be limited to pdfs. Additionally, there is 0 hand holding
| during set up. The packaging is top notch, but the QR code with
| instructions was hidden at the bottom under the device. I did not
| notice it until days later.
|
| That being said, the screen technology is amazing and I hope
| they're able to continue the business. Unfortunately the bar for
| products is very high now but I think they have something here.
| mr_tristan wrote:
| Ultimately, the first line is really resonated with me:
|
| "When I get to write or read on a screen that's reflecting the
| sun back at me instead of needing to be shielded from it, I get a
| dose of this feeling that this is what all computing could feel
| like. I want so much more of this in my life."
|
| I have the DC-1, and where I've used it in direct sunlight, it's
| a great feeling. However... it's rare that this matters. But...
| it's winter. And so I'm inside because it's f*king cold out. I'm
| holding onto hope that this will bring me outside to read and
| note take a bit more eventually.
|
| My iPad is still king for my "tablet computing". Especially note
| taking, drawing, design tasks (like CAD), casual gaming and
| entertainment consumption. I don't see the DC-1 replacing my iPad
| use any time soon. The app ecosystem, screen, sound, etc, are
| just not good enough to replace my iPad. Frankly, I just don't
| see anything that can really compete with the iPad, which sucks,
| because I feel like Apple continues to underestimate what the
| iPad could be. (It should be more like a mac and not like a
| phone. The hardware can do this, the software can not.)
|
| ... but anyhow, the DC-1 makes me excited to be able to, say, go
| to the park and read and note a design doc. Etc. Like, this
| device could be a lifestyle changer... when it's nice out. Or it
| might be a device I read documents on and take notes on the iPad.
| This is a second use case I'm just starting to figure out.
|
| So I'm going to keep onto mine, and I'm optimistic and excited.
| But it's early.
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