[HN Gopher] Thoughts on Daylight Computer
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Thoughts on Daylight Computer
        
       Author : 3r7j6qzi9jvnve
       Score  : 262 points
       Date   : 2025-02-19 03:41 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jon.bo)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jon.bo)
        
       | 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
       | (not mine) was just checking what became of them and this review
       | hit home
       | 
       | I have no use for an android tablet like this, but as soon as
       | they make a PC screen (either laptop or desktop) I'm pretty sure
       | I'd buy one fast! Keep it up folks!
        
         | spondylosaurus wrote:
         | I turned my Daylight into a PC screen using this app, which
         | worked like a charm: https://superdisplay.app/
        
           | krupan wrote:
           | That only works with Windows?
        
             | 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
             | There seem to be equivalent for linux (not tested)
             | https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/use-tablet-or-phone-
             | seco...
             | 
             | That's an interesting idea! I'm a bit wary of latency if
             | this all goes over wifi, but probably worth a try.
        
         | 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
         | While I was looking up such screens, these also seem to sell
         | "quick refresh" PC screens: https://shop.dasung.com/
         | 
         | Just did a quick search on HN and while it did get posted
         | recent ones didn't get many comments, not many users perhaps?
         | 
         | I'd be greedy and wish there was something in the middle (13 is
         | tiny for desktop but there's no battery so it's not really
         | laptop friendly; 25 is a bit too big for my desk), but
         | perhaps...
        
           | DecentShoes wrote:
           | The Dasung monitors are cool, but those are actual Eink,
           | whereas the Daylight tablet is LCD, so you'll have a wildly
           | different experience between the two.
           | 
           | There's a reflective lcd subreddit that discusses reflective
           | lcd pc monitors, looks like at least one company is launching
           | a commercial product soon.
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | I really hope to Modos e-ink display works out -
           | https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitor
           | 
           | They have their own FPGA based controller to enable much
           | higher refresh rates and lower latency.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | There is https://eazeye.com/.
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | If it were some more reasonable spec than 24" 1920 x 1080 I
           | would be far more interested.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | It's a hen and egg problem. There is little investment in
             | the technology, because few people buy it.
             | 
             | That being said, Full HD at that size (and even at 27") is
             | still a fairly common resolution on the desktop.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | It is still common, but there's a reason that it only
               | shows up on landfill-ready devices (unless you count high
               | hz gaming monitors).
        
       | abdullahkhalids wrote:
       | About 9 months ago, they promised that they will unlock the
       | bootloader so one can install and run linux on it [1]. Hoping
       | this happens soon.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40459958
        
         | plagiarist wrote:
         | I would buy one if this comes to fruition.
        
           | tebuevd wrote:
           | not an expert, but i think that's already available?
           | 
           | https://www.daylighthacker.wiki/unlock
        
             | plagiarist wrote:
             | Oh, interesting! I'll have to check into what the state of
             | Linux on these are.
        
         | 3r7j6qzi9jvnve wrote:
         | Unlocking the bootloader by itself is allowed apparently:
         | https://www.daylighthacker.wiki/unlock
         | 
         | The problem is that in order to run linux you'll probably want
         | a kernel with quite a few patches and their DTS, and I haven't
         | found anything for this yet. Android is almost linux so with a
         | bit of effort it's probably not unreachable, but I don't quite
         | have the time for this yet... If someone does it then Linux
         | with an external keyboard would probably work for me as well,
         | there was someone who did it with the remarkable (it's already
         | linux but they ran standard X11 on it), but the refresh rate
         | was a bit too sluggish, something like the daylight computer
         | would probably do nicely!
        
       | krupan wrote:
       | I've had a DC-1 for a few months now and this review sums it up
       | nicely. The one thing I'd say was missed is that you actually can
       | assign actions to the extra physical buttons with apps like Key
       | Mapper
        
         | jborichevskiy wrote:
         | author here- great to know, thanks!
        
       | Shank wrote:
       | > For some reason every bluetooth keyboard I have tried so far
       | glitches every so often and sends double or triple keys or
       | occasionally the same key a couple dozen times with no way to
       | stop it from happening.
       | 
       | This would make the device unusable to me. I wonder if others
       | have had the same issue? Fundamentally, I need typing to be
       | reliable. I guess this probably doesn't happen via USB keyboards?
        
         | t-3 wrote:
         | That sounds to me like some kind of retransmission error - a
         | packet with a keystroke is being sent but the ack is not
         | received so another packet is sent? I know nothing at all about
         | if/how bluetooth actually manages reliability though, so could
         | be unlikely or totally impossible.
        
           | TickleSteve wrote:
           | packets are sequenced, integrity checked and encrypted to
           | prevent replay attacks so unlikely to be a simple "send
           | packet again" issue. More likely a key debounce issue or
           | driver issue.
        
         | konradb wrote:
         | I get this when using my Bose QC bluetooth headphones near my
         | keyboard. Sometimes it doesn't happen much, sometimes it
         | happens every half hour. It doesn't happen when I don't use the
         | BT headphones. I wonder if this issue is something to do with
         | interference or radio power or faulty bluetooth stacks.
        
           | cies wrote:
           | bluetooth is a ghetto of a protocol. sad though, as the use
           | case is well so damn useful.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22904442
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Sounds like rf interference from your computer or something.
         | Try getting a 3-6' USB extension cable, and plug a Bluetooth
         | dongle into it, then route it away from your machine.
        
       | ikari_pl wrote:
       | It reassures me that going with an Onyx Boox Tab Pro was the
       | better choice. Full e-ink, not e-Paper, but still can switch to a
       | mode where you could, if you want, watch a movie. Backlight is
       | not crazy orange, it's what you want (warmth controlled
       | separately from brightness). Ignores hand when you use the
       | stylus, or at least, uses hands gestures for different things
       | than the stylus and I never had the issue. Bluetooth keyboard
       | works OK. And it's Android (that's a plus for me, you have good
       | software variety), with Google Services.
        
         | Seattle3503 wrote:
         | I looked at Boox devices, but they lag Android versions to the
         | point where it becomes a security concern.
        
           | partdavid wrote:
           | My Boox is pretty crap. My use case is Libby for library
           | books and the display refreshing and other things make it
           | almost unusable. Feels super cheap, unsupported.
        
             | noduerme wrote:
             | Wow. This is so different from my experience with my Boox.
             | I like the add ons they made to improve the Android UI for
             | e-ink purposes, and every weekly update makes it better.
             | Feels extremely well supported to me.
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | I love my Boox (nova C color). Draw on it, write hundreds of
         | pages of journals on it longhand, read essays, newspapers and
         | comics and books on it daily. For the past couple years. I gave
         | up other tablets once I got it.
         | 
         | What it is NOT good at is doom scrolling, social media, or
         | video. The format and refresh rate actively discourage that...
         | and also, the battery may go all day with wifi off, but it
         | drains pretty quickly once you're online. It is definitely an
         | offline device, with the full range of Android functionality
         | (and amazing offline handwriting recognition).
         | 
         | I take it out to read and write for hours every evening, and
         | don't carry anything else. Bar none the best device I've ever
         | owned for mixing creative and literary pursuits and turning my
         | back on the shittified internet.
        
         | fifticon wrote:
         | I for one would love crazy orange :-) There are, almost, dozens
         | of us!
        
         | graemep wrote:
         | They look like good products, but my daughter had a really bad
         | experience with them - she bought one, it arrived with the
         | screen broken, and they refused to accept that was possible and
         | said she must have broken it and refused a refund.
        
           | stringsandchars wrote:
           | Unfortunately Onyx Boox have used sockpuppets and other dirty
           | tricks on Reddit[0] and elsewhere to harass and deter users
           | reporting broken screens. Their international partners have
           | webpages explaining how it's "impossible" that e-ink screens
           | can be damaged or broken without you dropping or sitting on
           | them[1] And in general the company is hostile to anyone with
           | damaged devices or issues of other sorts.
           | 
           | Although no-one is perfect, I really like Supernote and their
           | way of developing as much as possible in the open[2]. The
           | devices are really great to use[3]
           | 
           | [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/19czc16/a_gen
           | era...
           | 
           | [1] https://einktab.ca/dealing-with-a-broken-e-ink-screen-
           | what-y...
           | 
           | [2] https://trello.com/b/l0COP24j/supernote-a5-x-a6-x-nomad-
           | soft...
           | 
           | [3] https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2025/01/18/2335
        
             | chewmieser wrote:
             | Throwing another vote out there for Supernote. Very
             | responsive, particularly around handwriting - which feels
             | flawless. Been a perfect device for me, but more limited
             | than a Boox. That's fine for my use-case, but still worth
             | calling out.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Sounds like an easy thing to dispute through your credit card
           | company.
           | 
           | Also check your card benefits. Mine has theft and damage
           | coverage and I've used it to replace a phone I dropped.
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | She was really busy and left it too late to go to the card
             | company by the time she had finished arguing with them.
        
             | DecentShoes wrote:
             | What if they didn't buy it on a credit card? I think I've
             | bought 6 or 7 things on a credit card my entire life. I
             | don't like pointless debt.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | > What if they didn't buy it on a credit card?
               | 
               | Then they have fewer options.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I personally am avoiding Onyx until they come into compliance
         | with the GPL.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23735962
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | From the picture, it has the low-contrast look of an older E-ink
       | display. Here's a higher-contrast E-ink display.[1]
       | 
       | There are also emissive display laptops brighter than 1000 nits,
       | which is about where they become sunlight-readable. Battery life
       | might be a problem.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GKVM94N1F6E
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | MacBook pro M4 with a low-glare display and 1600 nits iirc
         | works OK outdoors but still doesn't get close to eink in my
         | opinion.
        
         | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
         | The lower contrast is because it's not e-ink (with the very
         | slow refresh times that implies). It's something more like an
         | LCD.
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | Yes, my take on this has always been, "Trying to outbright the
         | sun with a battery-powered device is _not_ a brilliant
         | approach." which is why I've always preferred transflective
         | displays (and despair of replacing my Fujitsu Stylistic ST-4110
         | which was one of my most favourite computers, and probably the
         | longest-lived --- still boot it up occasionally to use a
         | scanner, and I'd use it for more if an 800MHz Pentium could
         | cope with today's JavaScript on today's Web...)
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | Every time I read something like this it strikes me as so
       | incredibly odd that people are into sunlight.
       | 
       | For me, direct sunlight is a 100% negative experience. It's
       | physically dangerous to skin, generally unhealthy if you aren't
       | Vitamin D deficient, extremely bright, causes wild temperature
       | flux throughout normal working hours, etc.
       | 
       | I have spent a lot of time and a fair bit of money making sure
       | natural sunlight never reaches the places I regularly work and
       | sleep. I would live deep underground if I could. The incessant
       | changes in light, temperature, humidity (even indoors) are a
       | constant annoyance that must be compensated for.
       | 
       | It's a wonder to me that anyone enjoys such experiences.
        
         | nehal3m wrote:
         | Okay guys, who welcomed Nosferatu onto HN? I'll get the
         | garlic...
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Some of us touch grass
        
         | nunodonato wrote:
         | dude, you definitely need to get outside more often...
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Why's that?
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | Do you have anything as a backup to say its physically
         | dangerous and generally unhealthy?
        
           | cies wrote:
           | It's only unhealthy when the (1) the sun is out (no clouds),
           | (2) the "shadows are short" (sun over 45deg angle), (2)
           | there's no (semi-)cover, and (3) you are in there already
           | over ~15min for that day (this is different per skin type and
           | tan-level).
           | 
           | Below that it's very healthy.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | Are you a vampire?
         | 
         | Insufficient Sun Exposure Has Become a Real Public Health
         | Problem https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7400257/
        
         | cies wrote:
         | You do not have to be in direct sunlight to be in a place with
         | that's sun lit.
         | 
         | Say I'm on my porch with a bright sun lit background, but not
         | in the sun myself. I'd love to work there, but I cannot read my
         | screen.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Sunlight is so wildly inconsistent, though. It changes
           | temperature, angle, and intensity so fast, and it is far far
           | too bright for the majority of the time it is available.
           | 
           | Electric light suffers from none of these problems.
        
         | world2vec wrote:
         | Funny, I am exactly the opposite of you and find your post
         | absolutely alien.
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | I think you're misinformed. Sunlight has way more benefits than
         | drawbacks.
         | 
         | See https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5129901/
         | 
         | Just feeling the warmth of the sun on your skin is a delight,
         | it's also delightful to be outside (even if perhaps in a shadow
         | or half-shadow) and read something.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | No, the assumption that it is universally delightful for
           | people is an incorrect one. The heating caused by the sun on
           | my skin is not enjoyable at all.
           | 
           | I would remain indoors forever if it were possible. I find
           | being outside to be just as archaic as swimming in the middle
           | of the open ocean; unnecessary and uncomfortable.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | It's not about sitting directly in the sun, it's about sitting
         | in well-lit, open environments. Normal laptop screens cannot
         | handle that very well, and they cannot handle direct sunlight
         | at all.
         | 
         | The ideal application for this technology is in a smart phone.
         | That's the device that people use most out doors.
         | 
         | Also don't forget that there are a lot of people who work
         | outdoors and need to check things and write things down when
         | they're in the field.
        
         | bookofjoe wrote:
         | 'Silo'
        
       | est wrote:
       | rlcd display panels are coming this year. Looking foward to buy
       | one.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | That looks pretty interesting, I'd think a regular LCD would
         | already be fully capable of working this way if you swapped the
         | diffuser + backlight for a reflective white sheet? They are
         | transparent after all.
        
         | mintplant wrote:
         | That's very exciting! Do you have any more information on that?
        
       | jgrahamc wrote:
       | I have one of these and I'm just about ready to give it away. The
       | problem is it doesn't fit a use case that I don't have better
       | solutions for. I've found that writing on the screen makes me
       | prefer paper; reading on the screen makes me prefer books. I
       | wanted to like the DC-1 but every time I use it something feels
       | off. Maybe that's partly because I don't enjoy the Android
       | experience.
        
         | jmspring wrote:
         | The android experience is off putting, that said I haven't put
         | much time into customizing or playing with my dc1 yet.
         | 
         | I found the design poor - reminds me of a first gen iPad. Too
         | much wasted real estate.
         | 
         | I need to spend more time with it, but I still prefer my iPad
         | Pro.
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | I've written about this before, but I too gave up on my
         | Daylight - even though I truly love what they are trying to
         | accomplish.
         | 
         | I found it:
         | 
         | - oddly heavy, the Daylight is made of all plastic (body &
         | screen) - yet it's heavier than an iPad Air made from metal &
         | glass.
         | 
         | - handwriting lag, the input lags when I use the pen is so much
         | that it distracts me while writing a sentence. I have to
         | concentrate to ensure it's keeping up with each letter I write.
         | No such lag exists with my iPad Air.
         | 
         | - no setup instructions or tutorial on its unique gestures. You
         | boot it up and have to figure out how it works and getting it
         | on WiFi
         | 
         | - display resolution is much worse than I was expecting.
         | 
         | - when using chrome, webpages render incredibly small. I'm
         | having to constantly zoom in. There's a setting in chrome about
         | "desktop mode" but it made no difference.
         | 
         | And I also wasn't expecting to have to sign up for a Google
         | account to even get Daylight OS/software updates. (Maybe I
         | don't but that's what the Google App Store made it seem like).
         | 
         | Wish I had read this review before I had bought it.
         | https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/20/24201356/daylight-compute...
         | 
         | * Note: I truly love the idea of Daylight, _and I hope they
         | succeed_. But in my mind, a considerable device improvement
         | needs to be made to realize that vision.
         | 
         | Until then, I'll revert back to using my iPad Air (and now with
         | nano-texture coming more broadly across Apple lines, Daylight
         | is going to have that much more to overcome - because _Apple is
         | also cheaper product_ ).
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | From theverge review:
           | 
           |  _the fact that I can slide my fingernail between the display
           | and the case and literally pry the thing apart_
           | 
           | As long as it doesn't RUD, opening with no tools seems like a
           | feature but the review reads like its a bug.
        
             | tiffanyh wrote:
             | If the manufacture intends for you to separate the display
             | from case, then it's a feature.
             | 
             | If it's not intended, it's a fit & finish issue.
             | 
             | I imagine it's not intended.
        
             | JadeNB wrote:
             | > As long as it doesn't RUD, opening with no tools seems
             | like a feature but the review reads like its a bug.
             | 
             | What is RUD?
        
               | theodric wrote:
               | Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly, a rocketry euphemism for
               | an explosion
        
               | JadeNB wrote:
               | That makes more sense. My brain immediately suggested R&D
               | + FUD = Research, Uncertainty, and Doubt, which is a fair
               | description of life in academia but didn't seem relevant
               | here.
        
           | throw10920 wrote:
           | > handwriting lag, the input lags when I use the pen is so
           | much that it distracts me while writing a sentence
           | 
           | Oh, that's a deal-breaker for me.
           | 
           | I currently have a Remarkable 2, and the handwriting latency
           | is _imperceptible_ - it feels like I 'm writing with a
           | physical pen. However, the latency of doing anything _except_
           | writing is very high - it takes almost a second to undo /redo
           | or open the pen palette, for instance.
           | 
           | The advertised 60Hz display of the Daylight and the
           | underlying Android platform (that makes it possible for me to
           | write my own applications, something that is technically
           | possible but difficult and unreliable on the RM2) made it
           | sound like an upgrade, but if handwriting latency is bad
           | enough that it doesn't feel like paper anymore, I think I'll
           | stick with a combination of my RM2 and desktop.
           | 
           | Theoretically this is something fixable in software (in which
           | case I'm sold), but from what I've heard about Android, it's
           | very much _not_ latency-optimized in either the video or
           | audio space.
        
           | dingnuts wrote:
           | How well can you see the iPad Air when you're sitting
           | outside? That's why I like my Daylight, for doing Duolingo
           | (with handwriting to enhance memory formation) and reading
           | Reddit/HN (in Firefox Mobile which doesn't have the problem
           | you describe with Chrome) on my patio
           | 
           | I've also found that my eyes are physically repulsed by the
           | brightness of OLED displays after using my Daylight for a few
           | hours indoors with the brightness down. It is much easier on
           | my eyes and much less addictive / attractive than my phone.
           | 
           | An iPad Air's screen is still going to hijack my dopamine
           | system like my phone does. The Daylight doesn't. I bought a
           | Daylight because I wanted a healthier device, and it
           | delivered on THAT promise.
           | 
           | But you're right, if you only have OLED Tablet use-cases,
           | it's not an OLED Tablet, so an OLED Tablet is better for
           | those things.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Yeah; I was really excited about this, but then saw it ran
         | android.
         | 
         | Hard pass. I have an android tablet laying around, and never
         | use it.
         | 
         | A Linux version / polished installable rom would make it
         | compelling for me, especially if it included stuff from the
         | kindle jailbreak community. Other than that, the ability to
         | ssh, a shell with apt or apk, running vs code, and a web
         | browser would cover a big chunk of my daily driver
         | requirements. Bonus points for docker.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | Interesting; the reason I wanted one was specifically because I
         | wanted to have an Android e-ink reader so that I could use the
         | O'Reilly Learning app with an e-ink screen. The Kindle Fire
         | screen is "fine", but the e-paper stuff always was nicer for me
         | to read off of.
         | 
         | I can't read my own handwriting anymore, so "real" paper is out
         | of the question for me.
        
           | dmicah wrote:
           | Also keep in mind that the Daylight doesn't have an e-ink
           | screen like a Kindle. It is instead a grayscale transflective
           | LCD. That is why it is able to have a high refresh rate like
           | other LCD panels.
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | I did not realize that. I don't think I want that then.
             | 
             | Maybe I should try out the remarkable.
        
               | zwayhowder wrote:
               | I use a Boox Note 2 almost daily for reading and
               | regularly with a bluetooth keyboard for writing. It has a
               | stylus, and the OCR is good enough for even my terrible
               | handwriting (I should have been a doctor apparently) and
               | I use that to scribble in the margin of PDFs etc.
               | 
               | My setup uses Autosync [1] to synchronise a folder from
               | my desktop to the device. On my desktop I have Zotero (a
               | Citation library) and Calibre both configured to export
               | to that folder (in subfolders). With two way sync my
               | notes are back on my PC almost instantly which is
               | fantastic.
               | 
               | I also run Readwise and Obsidian on the Boox.
               | 
               | 1: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxa
               | pps.au...
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | > OCR is good enough for even my terrible handwriting
               | 
               | Challenge accepted! _I_ can 't even read my own
               | handwriting anymore, I would be incredibly impressed if
               | an OCR can.
               | 
               | It's sort of a feedback loop; my handwriting is bad, so I
               | type everything, so I never use a pen, so I don't
               | practice my handwriting, so my handwriting gets worse. As
               | it stands, I don't think I've written anything with pen
               | and paper (other than a signature) since ~2021?
               | 
               | I've thought about picking up something in the Boox
               | series but they've always been just a bit too pricey for
               | me to justify; I'm afraid it would be yet another tablet
               | thing that I use for a week and then just ends up
               | collecting dust under my bed (of which I have a bunch).
        
               | mkl wrote:
               | > I can't even read my own handwriting anymore, I would
               | be incredibly impressed if an OCR can.
               | 
               | An online OCR system like this has more information than
               | you do as it knows stroke order, direction, and possibly
               | timing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are devices that
               | can read writing the writer can't.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | Semi-related: I had a Remarkable 2 and the best part of it for
         | me was the texture writing. I decided to use a Surface Book 3
         | but the writing isn't the same... probably will try one of
         | those textured surface cover things.
         | 
         | E-ink is interesting as it's nice wrt long battery life but the
         | slowness sucks too and this is not about the Android devices
         | with an e-ink screen. RM2 you could program so that was cool.
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | > I've found that writing on the screen makes me prefer paper;
         | reading on the screen makes me prefer books.
         | 
         | I had the same experience with Remarkable. I've found I'm much
         | happier now that I bought a color laser printer and just print
         | things I want to read! Similarly, I take all my notes on paper
         | and have a sheet feed scanner for digitization
        
         | rcarmo wrote:
         | Well, I'm quite happy with the Supernote Nomad, but will gladly
         | take the DC-1 off your hands if you want to because I would
         | love a screen with faster refresh to run Obsidian locally :)
        
         | MPSFounder wrote:
         | If you decide to give it away, I will happily pay for shipping.
         | I could use it as a PhD student!
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | I'm not sure I'm _there_ yet (giving it away) but similarly
         | annoyed by some of its teething pains. For me it seems to do
         | all the things, and it runs longer than my iPad pro does on a
         | charge (and like the OP author I suspect that is entirely
         | because I run the display as near 0 brightness)
         | 
         | I really appreciate using it as a writing device in portrait
         | mode, something that I really wish the iPad pro could do with
         | its "magic" keyboard. I continue to look for more intuitive
         | drawing solutions.
         | 
         | I also agree with the author that Android has that 'dos' feel
         | of poorly bodged together hardware specific drivers/stuff and
         | OS stuff.
         | 
         | As a result it hasn't replaced my ReMarkable 2 like I thought
         | it might, I'd really love the RM2 to have a higher refresh rate
         | than it does alas.
        
       | AlanYx wrote:
       | One thing about the DC-1 that this piece doesn't mention is the
       | graininess of the display. It's not resolution-related... on a
       | pure white background the display looks slightly speckled, like
       | it has some film grain. I find this impairs readability of small
       | text. (Matte and nano texture displays on many devices often have
       | some degree of graininess on pure white, but it's more prominent
       | on the DC-1 than I'm used to.) Perhaps it's related to the Wacom
       | layer rather than the RLCD tech itself, I'm not sure.
        
         | jim180 wrote:
         | Sounds like nano texture from Apple. Much less reflective than
         | standard glass, but with added graininess, which is clearly
         | visible to me :(
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | Thank you for saving me a nice chunk of change by closing out
           | my eternal debate about whether or not to pony up for a nano
           | texture screen.
        
             | throw-qqqqq wrote:
             | This topic is very subjective IMO.
             | 
             | Some love the glossy screens, others the matte ones. And
             | this is really what it comes down to for me.
             | 
             | I would try getting a chance to view the difference in
             | person before deciding.
        
               | AlanYx wrote:
               | Yes, I find that there are differences in eye strain
               | between the regular and nanotexture displays, even in a
               | dark room with no reflections. It's worth trying both.
               | One interesting difference between the two that not a lot
               | of people realize is that the light emitted by the
               | regular screen is circularly polarized, while the
               | nanotexture is largely non-polarized.
        
               | zachh wrote:
               | Can you explain more about what that means / share a link
               | to further reading? Tried searching but couldn't find
               | much online about the light polarization specifically,
               | and am interested in the nanotexture for reducing eye
               | strain.
        
               | AlanYx wrote:
               | There's some evidence that CPL emissive screens cause
               | less eyestrain than linearly polarized emissive screens
               | (e.g., https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9010255),
               | although the evidence there is not wildly strong. If you
               | have a pair of RealD 3-D glasses (CPL filters) and look
               | at a nanotexture iPad, you'll see that the nanotex layer
               | decoheres the polarization of the underlying display,
               | which is more like how normal (reflective) paper behaves.
        
               | zachh wrote:
               | Very helpful, thank you!
        
               | jim180 wrote:
               | Sure. I just wish I could buy both, test for a month or
               | so and then keep the one I like more.
               | 
               | Visiting Apple Store every other day, when I was visiting
               | the US did not help much. So I stayed with standard
               | glass.
        
               | bookofjoe wrote:
               | Indeed: only trying them both side by side at home would
               | yield a useful conclusion. Trying to gauge which would be
               | better for you from the Apple Store display would be
               | about as useless as trying to decide which big TV to buy
               | from Best Buy based on how they all look in the store,
               | with settings completely other than those you'd use at
               | home.
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | The grain on the DC-1 is quite a bit more noticeable than the
           | grain on Apple's nanotexture displays. I don't find the
           | latter distracting, but I found that I couldn't really read
           | PDFs with small text on the DC-1 because of the grain. (Some
           | of that is probably resolution-related too, to be fair.)
        
         | rcarmo wrote:
         | That's likely the textured layer for the pen feel/grippiness.
         | It's fine on most e-ink devices I've tested.
        
       | Certified wrote:
       | Whatever happened to the transflective lcds that were popular in
       | carputers in the 2000s? They seem to be a perfect fit for a
       | tablet and I have been puzzled that no one has jumped on using
       | them in one.
       | 
       | from the transflective wikipedia page [1]
       | 
       | "A transflective liquid-crystal display is a liquid-crystal
       | display (LCD) with an optical layer that reflects and transmits
       | light (transflective is a portmanteau of transmissive and
       | reflective). Under bright illumination (e.g. when exposed to
       | daylight) the display acts mainly as a reflective display with
       | the contrast being constant with illuminance. However, under dim
       | and dark ambient situations the light from a backlight is
       | transmitted through the transflective layer to provide light for
       | the display. The transflective layer is called a transflector. It
       | is typically made from a sheet polymer. It is similar to a one-
       | way mirror but is not specular."
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-
       | crystal_d...
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | The daylight computer is a transflective LCD with fancy
         | marketing.
        
           | Certified wrote:
           | Thanks for pointing that out. I thought it was some sort of
           | variation on an E-ink display because of the black and white
           | limitation. Nothing about transflective tech limits it from
           | full color other than price. I guess that leads me to an
           | evolution of my question: Why are no* tablets using full
           | color transflective displays?
           | 
           | *I did find the HannsNote2 [1] does, but it only came out
           | last year, and this tech has been around for donkey's years.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.hannspree.com/product/hannsnote2
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | There is https://eazeye.com/.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | LEDs replaced CCFL tubes in backlighting. LED was still too
         | dark until iPhone 4S or 5, but once it became bright enough and
         | automatic brightness control matured, it quickly eliminated
         | needs for transflective displays.
         | 
         | Transflective displays are also generally "low quality" in eyes
         | of regular consumers. That drives down margins and eliminate
         | less flashy options.
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | They don't showroom well, so were discontinued outside of
         | nautical usage and special-purpose outdoor devices.
         | 
         | Unfortunate, my Stylistic Fujitsu ST-4110 w/ transflective
         | display was one of my favourite devices ever.
        
       | rtpg wrote:
       | Regarding the comment about using the laptop in a hammock... I
       | really wish I could have some sort of keyboard that was "good for
       | typing" but that I could just hold onto in my hands. Many times I
       | would like to type something up, but don't want a computer on my
       | lap.
       | 
       | Just something shaped like some cylinders to grip yet somehow are
       | able to piggyback on existing touch typing knowledge sounds cool
       | to me (but might be unreasonably heavy or something)
        
         | jodrellblank wrote:
         | I've never seen one that's "good for typing" but:
         | 
         | TapStrap 2: https://www.tapwithus.com/product/tap-strap-2/
         | 
         | The ancient Twiddler2 wearable chording keyboard:
         | https://spectrum.ieee.org/media-library/the-twiddler-chorded...
         | 
         | The never productised Senseboard:
         | https://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/virtuella-tangenter-gor-nytt...
         | 
         | The never productised DataEgg chording:
         | https://www.friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/
        
           | JackMorgan wrote:
           | I've got an Alphagrip that's pretty good but I ended losing
           | my speed with it when Swype touchscreens came out and I was
           | faster with them.
           | 
           | https://www.alphagrip.com/
        
       | Gracana wrote:
       | > scrolling, panning, videos, gifs. It all feels as it should
       | 
       | Is it really that good?
       | 
       | Okay, I found a video... Wow!
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHeIw9rXzUQ
       | 
       | Very expensive right now, too much to impulse buy, and the OS is
       | not what I want. I would like a chunky little laptop with this
       | display tech.
        
       | spondyl wrote:
       | I really enjoy my DC-1 but after a quick skim, I didn't notice
       | any mention of the screen's ability to scratch.
       | 
       | I took mine in a backpack up to my parents place and apparently
       | something lightly caused a scratch on the screen so now I just
       | have a permanent little gouge.
       | 
       | Thankfully I've learned to ignore it over time but yeah, don't
       | assume it's as indestructible as a lot of screens.
       | 
       | The DC-1 does/did ship with a padded cover which makes me think
       | it doubled as the engineering fix for when/if they realised that
       | might be an issue.
        
         | officeplant wrote:
         | Vast majority of e-ink devices have little to no scratch
         | resistance and need covers. Are people so used to gorilla glass
         | that they forget other displays exist now?
         | 
         | A rare exception is the BigME E-ink phones but those have
         | glossy glass over the screens and a matte screen protector to
         | combat the gloss.
        
           | Night_Thastus wrote:
           | >Are people so used to gorilla glass that they forget other
           | displays exist now?
           | 
           | Yes? Phones have gotten incredibly scratch resistant over the
           | years. It's kind of expected that portable devices will do a
           | good job of this because they get moved a lot.
           | 
           | Not saying it's easy with e-ink and touch capabilities
           | though, it may be very hard. However, I can see why someone
           | would expect it to 'just work'.
        
           | spondyl wrote:
           | I've been pretty unloving to my various Kobo's and Boox
           | devices without any major issues so I guess I'm just not used
           | to it
        
       | circuit10 wrote:
       | Random idea: could someone make a display like this for the
       | Framework laptop?
        
         | headclone wrote:
         | Fantastic idea -- I would be in the market for this, doubly so
         | if it could be easily swapped with an OLED.
        
       | steveBK123 wrote:
       | I've got one coming my way hopefully in next 2 months..
       | 
       | I kind of see it similarly to this review - a new category of
       | device and not quite a 1-1 replacement of anything I have.
       | 
       | I have reluctantly owned Kindles & iPads since v1 of each, and
       | don't particularly like either.
       | 
       | For me the iPad is always the 2nd (or 3rd) best device - if I'm
       | seated indoors at a table or sofa, a MacBook is better.. if I'm
       | on the go, a big iPhone is better.. if I am doing book length
       | reading, a kindle is better. I can go a week or three without
       | picking up my iPad. I find the OS annoyingly close to being a
       | proper mini MacOS that never quite gets close enough in terms of
       | multitasking/etc. It almost would be better by not trying to do
       | so many things.
       | 
       | That said I find Kindles to be the worst tech product I regularly
       | use, hands down. It's good for reading books in bed, thats
       | basically it. But its so much better at that, I use it daily.
       | 
       | All the notetaking/highlighting/sharing functionality is garbage.
       | Attempts to download/purchase more books on it are clunky enough
       | I just wait til I'm back at phone/desktop. It also has the most
       | bizarre ad targeting showing me content I would never read
       | despite having nearly 20 years of my reading history.
       | 
       | I've even tried the Remarkable (v1) for a couple years as a work
       | note-taking device.
       | 
       | So I'm hoping the Daylight solves the "3rd device" issue a bit
       | better, but tbd. Light computing, mostly for reading, plus some
       | light note taking, touch & keyboard, better battery life and a
       | screen that works outdoors.
        
         | Daegalus wrote:
         | I had a similar adventure.
         | 
         | I ended up with a Meebook E-Reader P78 Pro. It is an android
         | based e-reader with a stylus and note-taking capabilities. Even
         | has the ability to enable Google Play Store.
         | 
         | I added Kindle, Library, and Audiobookshelf to mine, along with
         | Obsidian and some note taking stuff. it works fairly well,
         | nowhere near perfect, but its also much cheaper than the DC-1.
         | 
         | Maybe look into that also. There might be newer versions or
         | alternatives. Maybe something from Boox
        
           | Daegalus wrote:
           | Just to add, I bought this primarily for Reading, and note
           | taking second on occasion.
        
         | pgalvin wrote:
         | I may have misunderstood your comments on Kindles. How are they
         | the worst tech product you use, if you also think they're the
         | best at their intended purpose? Do you mean that you still find
         | e-ink technology lacking, but there is nothing better?
        
       | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
       | Since I couldn't find a link anywhere, available for preorder for
       | US$729:
       | 
       | https://daylightcomputer.com/
        
       | jboggan wrote:
       | I have the Fintie case he mentioned and it does work very nicely.
       | 
       | I love my Daylight so far but I received it right at the end of
       | the season that I would want to be working outside. Spring is
       | just around the corner here in Georgia so I am looking forward to
       | putting it to work in the wifi-enabled woods behind my barn
       | office.
       | 
       | It's very good though and latency is good enough to watch
       | Broodwar videos on YouTube and still enjoy the content (though of
       | course the colors are off).
        
       | vednig wrote:
       | this is awesome, thanks for sharing
        
       | ct0 wrote:
       | r/writerdeck
        
       | G8RZMPKhX wrote:
       | I've had a DC-1 for several months now. My biggest fear is that
       | the company won't make a second version. I think I can truthfully
       | say this is the one digital device I've actually been excited to
       | own!
       | 
       | I have two primary usecases - reading on the train and taking
       | notes in meetings. On the first - being a full Android, I can use
       | apps or a web browser, and it's extremely responsive and highly
       | legible. On the notetaking side - hands down, the best experience
       | I've had with a digital product - for comparison, I've got a
       | Remarkable 2 tablet sitting on my desk, and by comparison,
       | remarkable's writing delay is noticeably uncomfortable.
       | 
       | I wish they had an official cover (I've found an acceptable
       | generic on amazon). For the retro-computing feel, there's
       | definitely something surreal in watching a B&W movie on a B&W
       | device.
       | 
       | I honestly don't miss the color spectrum, so unless you're doing
       | some work that actually _requires_ color, I would definitely
       | recommend this device. Somehow, it gets the  "less distraction"
       | thing right. And the software support will improve with time.
        
       | timvdalen wrote:
       | Do the orange buttons work for anyone? The Reader app mentions
       | that they're supposed to be for sending feedback, but they've
       | never done anything for me.
        
       | somberi wrote:
       | I have one and agree with the technical issues mentioned in this
       | thread. This is my first experience with a writing tablet,
       | although I have occasionally dabbled with an iPad with a stylus.
       | 
       | What draws me to use this device is that it creates a sense of
       | "roominess," allowing me to lean back and consume, write, and
       | engage in a non-aggressive way. This quality is something I miss
       | in my other devices.
       | 
       | The monochrome display makes playing Wordle harder :).
        
       | VyseofArcadia wrote:
       | I quite like mine, but I haven't done any work work on it. No
       | typing or anything. I've read a couple of books on it, I've read
       | some manga (perfect match for the monochrome screen), and I've
       | taken some notes on some papers that I'm working through. I'm
       | impressed with the battery, and I've been using it every single
       | day since I got it. Mindblowing? No. Just a nice reading
       | experience. Perfect if you want something larger form-factor than
       | the kindle with more apps to side-load, if that's your thing.
       | 
       | As for the UI, etc, it's just Android with a non-standard
       | launcher. They didn't even write the launcher, it's a launcher
       | you can get off the app store. It's pretty vanilla except for the
       | gestures for back/home. Whether or not this bothers you is
       | probably a function of how much you like or dislike a pretty
       | vanilla Android experience.
        
       | 52-6F-62 wrote:
       | Is it really computing if you're just using it like a pad of
       | paper? Is it worth all the noxious process to manufacture it?
       | 
       | I like a different tool as much as the next person, but I think
       | before we jump to the most complicated to for the job we should
       | align our priorities..
        
       | markbergz wrote:
       | Thank you for writing this up, I'm glad I'm not the online one
       | with the Android issues. Being able to put any software on it is
       | nice, but it comes with a cost. The default Android jank along
       | with the custom home screen makes the product difficult to use. I
       | only wanted to read ebooks on the device but even that experience
       | is not great and the reader app that comes with the device seems
       | to be limited to pdfs. Additionally, there is 0 hand holding
       | during set up. The packaging is top notch, but the QR code with
       | instructions was hidden at the bottom under the device. I did not
       | notice it until days later.
       | 
       | That being said, the screen technology is amazing and I hope
       | they're able to continue the business. Unfortunately the bar for
       | products is very high now but I think they have something here.
        
       | mr_tristan wrote:
       | Ultimately, the first line is really resonated with me:
       | 
       | "When I get to write or read on a screen that's reflecting the
       | sun back at me instead of needing to be shielded from it, I get a
       | dose of this feeling that this is what all computing could feel
       | like. I want so much more of this in my life."
       | 
       | I have the DC-1, and where I've used it in direct sunlight, it's
       | a great feeling. However... it's rare that this matters. But...
       | it's winter. And so I'm inside because it's f*king cold out. I'm
       | holding onto hope that this will bring me outside to read and
       | note take a bit more eventually.
       | 
       | My iPad is still king for my "tablet computing". Especially note
       | taking, drawing, design tasks (like CAD), casual gaming and
       | entertainment consumption. I don't see the DC-1 replacing my iPad
       | use any time soon. The app ecosystem, screen, sound, etc, are
       | just not good enough to replace my iPad. Frankly, I just don't
       | see anything that can really compete with the iPad, which sucks,
       | because I feel like Apple continues to underestimate what the
       | iPad could be. (It should be more like a mac and not like a
       | phone. The hardware can do this, the software can not.)
       | 
       | ... but anyhow, the DC-1 makes me excited to be able to, say, go
       | to the park and read and note a design doc. Etc. Like, this
       | device could be a lifestyle changer... when it's nice out. Or it
       | might be a device I read documents on and take notes on the iPad.
       | This is a second use case I'm just starting to figure out.
       | 
       | So I'm going to keep onto mine, and I'm optimistic and excited.
       | But it's early.
        
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