[HN Gopher] A secret poker game you can play on the subway
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       A secret poker game you can play on the subway
        
       Author : oktcho
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2025-02-18 10:37 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (experience.prfalken.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (experience.prfalken.dev)
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | > Each type of passenger corresponds to a specific poker card
       | value: Child: Counts as a 10 Teenager: Counts as a Jack Woman:
       | Counts as a Queen Man: Counts as a King Elderly Person: Counts as
       | an Ace
       | 
       | How do you get the players to agree on whether some person is
       | elderly or not? Some people look 10 years younger than their age,
       | while others look 10 years older. Short of asking people for
       | their age, it seems to remain guesswork...
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | It's not like it's an official competition, and it's (probably)
         | not for money, so I imagine you can just wing it and it will be
         | fine. If there's a disagreement you just talk it out, which is
         | also a good way to pass time on a subway.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I'd be more worried about overlap; if there are five women, and
         | one is elderly, I'd rather count it as five queens than four
         | and an ace.
        
           | motes wrote:
           | unless you include Balatro hands where Five of a kind, flush
           | five, and flush house are possible hands with some modified
           | card decks.
        
       | jbs789 wrote:
       | It's not clear to me when or how you "choose" your row of 5. I
       | feel dense but I don't think this is described...
        
         | motoxpro wrote:
         | Seems fun!
         | 
         | You choose any time to start (mutually agreed upon)
         | 
         | You can choose any row you want. The chance (skill?) comes into
         | play in that people can get up from those seats and new people
         | can come in. That's why you have to choose an end station. It
         | probably wouldn't be very fun for just one stop.
        
           | remram wrote:
           | But what's the play?
           | 
           | It seems you don't have any control over the hand, no control
           | over the evaluation, and there is no betting either.
           | 
           | Something more akin to bingo, where you call out when a
           | winning combination is found, would be a lot more engaging.
           | 
           | Or maybe keep your chosen hand a secret, so you can do the
           | normal betting/bluffing/folding of Poker? With the added fun
           | that your hand might change over the course of the game.
        
         | latexr wrote:
         | Notice the image which says "A pair of aces is a good start",
         | because two elderly people are sitting there. Think of it like
         | each row being a pre-populated hand (which may be missing some
         | cards) based on the people already sitting there. You pick it
         | and then the "cards" change themselves between stations.
         | 
         | In other words, you pick immediately once the game starts. Look
         | around to see which row you think has the best chance to
         | develop into something good by the time you reach the
         | designated station.
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | this is a far better explanation than the article
        
           | marras wrote:
           | I found myself looking for some rules on how you can
           | influence your "hand" - is it "legal", for example:
           | 
           | - to stand in a specific place in order to (subtly) direct
           | other passengers into a specific section of the car, or
           | 
           | - to take a seat yourself and give it up to an elderly person
           | later on, in an attempt to gain an extra ace ;)
        
             | dbl000 wrote:
             | A group of friends and I used to play what we called
             | "cheater's poker". There were no stakes expect bragging
             | rights, but you were allowed to cheat in anyway what so
             | ever. Stacked decks, marked cards, false shuffles etc. I'm
             | curious what that would look like in this game and how far
             | you could take it before it became socially awkward.
             | 
             | Could you ask a friend/plant to come to a particular
             | station at some time and sit in a specific seat to
             | aid/hinder a set? Gesturing to someone a specific seat is
             | open? How about outright asking someone if they'd be
             | willing to sit in a particular spot?
        
       | Aransentin wrote:
       | This article has a strong ChatGPT smell. Things like "in the
       | world of", "let's dive into", the bullet points, "conclusion"
       | section, etc. Anyone else have the same feeling?
        
         | Feathercrown wrote:
         | Feels this way to me too.
        
         | Philpax wrote:
         | Yep. Read the first few paragraphs and immediately noticed the
         | stink. Using it as an assistant is fine, but you really
         | shouldn't leave what it outputs untouched, especially when it's
         | _this_ obvious!
        
         | cauliflower2718 wrote:
         | In section "Works in every major city!", the author mentions
         | they are from France.
         | 
         | Given that, it's not surprising that they used an AI to help
         | with translation.
        
           | Aransentin wrote:
           | Sure, but the structure seems quite ChatGPTish as well, with
           | e.g. the bullet points and section choice. You wouldn't get
           | that by just faithfully translating a french source text from
           | English.
        
             | topherclay wrote:
             | You might also note that in their first blog post they use
             | the French language convention of puting a space before
             | their exclamation marks and in this latest post they use
             | the English language convention of no space.
             | 
             | >Now I can update this blog and push to github, instant
             | deploy !
             | 
             | vs
             | 
             | >I would be delighted to hear from you!
        
             | pmarreck wrote:
             | Why do people care about this?
        
         | untech wrote:
         | I got that feeling because of adjectives like "innovative".
         | Thought that it might be impolite to imply that in the
         | comments, and was relieved that someone already did.
         | 
         | The premise of the article is still interesting.
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | Is there a list of phrases and words to avoid, to not be
         | accused of using AI? It's getting kind of ridiculous what
         | people identify an "AI smell". I understand if the word "delve"
         | shows up five times in as many paragraphs, I guess, but just
         | having a "conclusion" section is a smell now? Using the word
         | "innovative" is a smell?
         | 
         | I feel awfully sorry for kids in school these days. Teachers
         | must think everything they write is AI, considering they're
         | still learning to write effectively and probably like to use
         | bullet points, popular phrases like "dive into", and structured
         | layouts that include introduction and conclusion sections.
        
           | dbl000 wrote:
           | I don't think it's any particular word or phrase that makes
           | it seem like AI but instead the overall feel of the writing.
           | I can't quite describe it, but it feels like it's been
           | sandpapered of any emotion or author's voice and just feels
           | banal. Compare the wording and voice in this post versus one
           | of the author's earlier ones
           | (https://experience.prfalken.dev/english/exercism/) and I
           | think you'll see what I mean. Some of this, especially the
           | 2nd sentence, just reads with the standard "wall of text
           | without substance voice" that I've personally come to
           | associate with AI.
           | 
           | As another comment
           | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43105143) notes, some
           | of the author's earlier blog posts use a different style of
           | punctuation so I'm willing to bet that they might be using AI
           | to help them write or reformat some of their ideas. I don't
           | think there's anything wrong with that but without some re-
           | edits to the AI text it will take on that distinctly AI tone.
           | 
           | Kids who are still learning how to write still have a
           | tone/voice/style that comes across in their writing and I
           | think that's the particular distinction being made here.
        
         | savanaly wrote:
         | The sad thing is ChatGPT didn't invent that style. That was
         | just the way clear, concise writing by skilled writers was at
         | the time they trained the model. So now if you are actually a
         | skilled writer who tries to convey ideas in a clear, concise
         | way, you will appear robotic :(
        
           | mplewis wrote:
           | Your writing needs to have flavor and personality, rather
           | than reading like a business email.
        
           | zahlman wrote:
           | Certainly I've seen elements of this style in pre-ChatGPT
           | writing. (Of course, it didn't just invent the style.) But I
           | disagree strongly that it's clear, concise or skillful. The
           | way that bullet-point lists are used here is highly
           | distracting and frankly counterproductive, and a "conclusion"
           | hardly seems necessary for a piece that presents the rules
           | for a simple game. Entire sentences like "Let's dive into the
           | rules and strategies of this captivating game." are pure
           | fluff here, too.
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | FFS. I read it and learned something. Stop jousting windmills
         | just because they seem like propellers on warplanes that are
         | coming for you. Sometimes they are just windmills.
        
           | zahlman wrote:
           | "Learned" what, exactly? Anyone could make up a game like
           | this. And it really does read to me (as it apparently did to
           | GP) like something even an LLM could make up nowadays.
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | Great thing about the Lexington Ave subway in New York is that
       | you can legally gamble with your own money just by setting foot
       | on it!
        
       | remram wrote:
       | > Selecting a row near the doors can increase the likelihood of
       | passenger turnover
       | 
       | I don't think that's true. People get off when they get to their
       | destination whether or not it is easy to reach the door, and sit
       | in available spaces.
        
         | LelouBil wrote:
         | People that only have a few stations to go tend to sit closer
         | to doors.
         | 
         | But also, now that I think about it, this may only be caused by
         | french metro layouts, I'm from France too and this fact seems
         | true to me.
         | 
         | If your train is only a long corridor with seats on the edges,
         | the "difficulty" of getting to/from a door is almost the same
         | everywhere.
         | 
         | But in the french metro you have foldable seats right next to
         | the doors, and groups of 4 seats between doors, and when the
         | metro is busy, it's harder to get out of these 4 seats
         | groupings.
        
       | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
       | Each card value has the same probability, but subway riders'
       | distribution is all skewed.
       | 
       | A way to make the hands fair that comes to me right away is to
       | take some unambiguous information about riders (coat color,
       | presence of a hat, etc..) and calculate a hash that you can read
       | as/transform to a hand. This should transform the distribution to
       | uniform, at least to a degree suitable for an occasional play.
       | 
       | Though, this will void the strategical part of the game.
        
       | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
       | The most obvious issues with this is that the game boils down to
       | predicting passenger patterns, but you're still just comparing
       | two RNGs, which is one of the worst kinds of games. I also don't
       | think this can be called Poker, really. Poker is an imperfect
       | information game, where your hand tells you _some_ information
       | about your opponents ' hands.
       | 
       | It would be interesting to read HN's ideas on how you can
       | simulate the shared information part of the game in such a
       | scenario.
        
         | dbl000 wrote:
         | You might be able to do that with a betting aspect? If you and
         | your partner both select two "rows" and keep them secret and
         | then after each station you could change how much you're
         | willing to stake you get some information based on the bet.
         | 
         | It's an imperfect solution but I still like the premise of this
         | game, it just needs to be field tested a bit.
        
         | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
         | Is human behaviour not predicable enough for you? I bet
         | passengers are more likely to congregate on the side that the
         | door enters/exits, etc
        
           | tetris11 wrote:
           | You can definitely select a new hand each station by making
           | inappropriate gestures or sounds.
        
         | kuboble wrote:
         | > . I also don't think this can be called Poker, really. Poker
         | is an imperfect information game,
         | 
         | There is no game of Poker. It is a wide variety of games like
         | 5-card draw, Omaha, Texas, studs, Chinese open face poker. Also
         | a slot machine where you draw 5 cards or pretty much any game
         | that uses classical poker hand rankings is called poker. There
         | is also a planning poker.
         | 
         | I think the name is fine
        
           | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
           | The card games listed have the information aspect in common.
           | The slot machine is not a Poker, it's a poker-themed slot
           | machine and the game people play with it is called losing
           | money.
        
             | kuboble wrote:
             | Not that I disagree with anything about the nature of those
             | games, but your narrow usage of a word poker is wrong.
             | 
             | I even checked the Wikipedia article about Poker and there
             | is a quote very similar to my wording:
             | 
             | "Other games that use poker hand rankings may likewise be
             | referred to as poker."
        
               | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
               | Well, it's my opinion based on the assumption that
               | players used to specific common card games under the
               | moniker might be disappointed when a new game with the
               | same name lacks an essential component (and it's not
               | cards).
               | 
               | Naming things is hard but there's no hard limits for the
               | expansive approach, you can call all card games or all
               | 5-things-games Poker. Your mileage as to communication
               | with other people may vary, though.
               | 
               | Where we're disagreeing is at how we're seeing what's
               | conventional.
        
               | kuboble wrote:
               | All you say is true. Except in your first post you didn't
               | say "I personally prefer a convention of calling only
               | those games poker".
               | 
               | You said "you can't call it poker" with a tone of an
               | authority.
               | 
               | And I say that you can.
        
               | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
               | > You said "you can't call it poker" with a tone of an
               | authority.
               | 
               | This is a misquote, if I ever saw one.
               | 
               | What I've actually written (emphasis added): " _I_ also
               | don 't _think_ this can be called Poker, _really_. "
               | 
               | In other words, this is my personal line of thought, with
               | the argument given in the next sentence, and "really"
               | means "to some extent it can, but not to the full".
        
               | Maxatar wrote:
               | Refrain from using quotes unless you are actually quoting
               | something that someone has said word for word.
               | 
               | The actual quote is: "I also don't think this can be
               | called Poker, really."
               | 
               | There is nothing suggesting a tone of authority, on the
               | contrary this is someone explicitly sharing their own
               | opinion on the matter.
        
         | antasvara wrote:
         | In the style of Texas Hold'em, both players could secretly
         | choose two seats each and write them down. Then, you'd
         | collectively choose 5 seats to be the shared "cards."
         | 
         | This next suggestion would stretch the "poker" definition
         | somewhat, but I think it retains the same characteristics
         | (imperfect information, shared "cards").
         | 
         | You start from a shared list of attributes (coat color,
         | presence of a hat, etc.) and designate a row of seats. Each
         | person gets one attribute secretly. You wager after each stop
         | following poker conventions.
         | 
         | Only downside to this is that unlike poker, your hand can get
         | worse after a stop.
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | This misses the information your secret hand gives you about
           | the other player's chances. In poker if I got an Ace in my
           | hand the chance of the opponent having an ace lowers.
           | 
           | If I got somebody wearing a black coat, this has no impact on
           | the chance of my opponent having a black coated passenger.
        
       | jameslars wrote:
       | Does 5 of a kind beat a royal straight?
        
         | risson wrote:
         | According to Balatro, it does
        
         | zahlman wrote:
         | Traditionally, in poker variants with wild cards that enable 5
         | of a kind hands, it does IIRC beat a royal flush. )"Royal
         | straight" isn't a thing; AKQJT straights are sometimes called
         | "broadway", but they're never distinguished as a separate hand
         | type. Whereas royal flushes do get distinguished from straight
         | flushes, but not for any good reason.)
         | 
         | But all of this is moot because TFA doesn't define "suits" for
         | the "cards" anyway. And of course the relative probabilities do
         | change when you only have 5 ranks. (And we're also effectively
         | "drawing" without replacement; there are an effectively
         | unlimited number of each rank available.)
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | For a second I wondered how would you assign suits to people --
       | but quickly realized that this would be easy, but probably
       | racist.
        
         | dbl000 wrote:
         | If you eschew the standard 4 suit deck and go for a differently
         | scaled one I think it's pretty simple - just do it based on
         | clothing choices or items carried with more value given to a
         | rarer case.
         | 
         | Things like beanies, grocery bags, formal shoes could all be
         | used to make suits and you have a bit more choices to play with
         | on how you count the person. Do I count them as a "formal
         | shoes" or a "grocery bag"? What do I think I'm more likely to
         | see board later?
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | I can imagine the discussions on whether someone fits the 'elder
       | person' description that would ensue.
        
       | deepAIhunter wrote:
       | So you need to click pictures of random people in the subway to
       | play this game?
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | No, you use your eyes. That's why you play it with a fellow
         | commuter.
        
       | fitsumbelay wrote:
       | This is great. I've had some (probably naive) imaginings about
       | extremely short term multi-player interactions in public
       | spaces/public transport like this but always got stuck at the
       | "how will they know it's there" part
        
       | mplewis wrote:
       | There should probably be a way to play this that doesn't rely on
       | assuming the gender of someone you see in public.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | It doesn't matter if both players assume the same gender.
        
       | shlomo_z wrote:
       | I prefer not to play a game that requires assuming anyone's
       | gender or age
       | 
       | But its a cute idea
        
         | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
         | Aw I feel like it's perfectly harmless in this instance, right?
         | You don't need to talk to the people, so there's no risk of
         | insulting them.
        
       | kulesh wrote:
       | I don't know why, but I vibe-coded AI Subway Poker
       | https://x.com/stas_kulesh/status/1892328616609841290
        
       | acqbu wrote:
       | Okay nice but what if queen identifies as king?
        
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