[HN Gopher] South Korean regulator accuses DeepSeek of sharing u...
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       South Korean regulator accuses DeepSeek of sharing user data with
       ByteDance
        
       Author : devonnull
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2025-02-18 20:29 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | codydkdc wrote:
       | m8 they shared their database with the entire world:
       | https://www.wiz.io/blog/wiz-research-uncovers-exposed-deepse...
        
         | observationist wrote:
         | "Unintentionally exposed" and "deliberately gave" are two
         | meaningfully different actions, both of which are examples of
         | why much better regulation and legislation of individuals
         | rights over their data are needed.
        
       | tokioyoyo wrote:
       | If they sold it, isn't that like what... literally almost every
       | single company does nowadays unless you pay up?
        
         | nialv7 wrote:
         | *even if you pay up.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I don't think so. You can't buy user data from Google or
         | Facebook or Apple or Microsoft and they probably have more of
         | it than anybody else.
        
           | bolognafairy wrote:
           | No, but they let you leverage it.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | Which is in this case a pretty important distinction.
             | Letting another company leverage user data within the
             | bounding zone which you've defined is not the same thing as
             | is being alleged here, which is actually sharing data.
             | 
             | It's quite literally the difference between exposing a
             | public API and actually handing over the contents of the
             | database.
        
               | tokioyoyo wrote:
               | Facebook buys (well at least used to) buy data from other
               | brokers. So you can think Bytedance = Facebook, Deepseek
               | = data broker in this scenario.
        
       | tiberius_p wrote:
       | Lol I'm so glad I'm running it offline with Ollama.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | That won't protect you from its propaganda/censorship. Some
         | versions of DeepSeek's models have bias built in - as in it's
         | not just implemented by their service/app. But offline does
         | protect you from privacy/security issues.
        
       | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
       | wait, is this a bad thing for US Tech companies? Guess if that's
       | a yes this is good for Europe?
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | The US decided ByteDance and TikTok were national security
         | threats, so presumably this is not a "good thing" from the US's
         | perspective.
        
           | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
           | again, ... bad for who? For Trump and his Silicon Valley
           | sycophants? If that is a yes, then I don't see why this is a
           | bad thing for Europe.
        
       | xiphias2 wrote:
       | There was data sharing between Twitter, Google and Facebook as
       | well.
       | 
       | USA has to make a decision between safety and national security.
        
         | TheRealPomax wrote:
         | Sorry how is a story about South Korea about the US?
        
           | itishappy wrote:
           | Does DeepSeek only share South Korean data?
        
       | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
       | This is my surprised face -_-
       | 
       | If you're shocked or even the slightest bit surprised, then I
       | can't imagine how blissful your life is to be so unaware about
       | how much corporations are sharing data with each other.
       | 
       | Like, I wholeheartedly expect that if I mention Beyblade toys on
       | Facebook, then the next time I visit Amazon, they'll be
       | suggesting Beyblades even if I've never even searched Amazon for
       | toys, let alone Beyblade.
        
         | KeplerBoy wrote:
         | That's literally Meta's business model, they will happily
         | explain how thats going for them in public investors' calls
         | every few months.
         | 
         | With deepseek and bytedance things are a lot less clear cut.
        
           | simlevesque wrote:
           | The terms of use of Deepseek make it very clear they will
           | sell your data.
        
           | baq wrote:
           | what is less clear cut? you can safely assume they do _at
           | least_ the same things as meta.
        
           | tokioyoyo wrote:
           | Bytedance's entire business model is based on user-targeting
           | and showing things what they might enjoy watching, so they
           | can push more ads to them. I wouldn't be surprised if they
           | bought the data to train their own LLMs.
        
           | 4ndrewl wrote:
           | How-so less clear-cut? Mysterious and Chinesey so perhaps?
        
             | bolognafairy wrote:
             | The ostensible business models of the companies at play.
             | 
             | Stop looking at any opportunity to bark as Sinophobia.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Things can be shocking (as in: causing indignation or disgust),
         | yet totally unsurprising. In fact, I'd argue that most
         | newsworthy events tend to be both terrible and entirely
         | expected, given incentives and the way the world is set up to
         | work.
        
         | SecretDreams wrote:
         | You could literally talk about beyblade toys on a whatsapp
         | video call and you'll be getting Amazon ads for dem blades the
         | next day.
        
           | sitkack wrote:
           | WhatsApp is secured by Signal encryption
        
             | kelnos wrote:
             | WhatsApp is a closed-source client that you cannot trust to
             | faithfully and correctly implement the protocol, or be free
             | of backdoors that allow Meta to snoop on your
             | conversations.
        
         | unclebucknasty wrote:
         | > _...corporations are sharing data with each other._
         | 
         | > _I wholeheartedly expect that if I mention Beyblade toys on
         | Facebook..._
         | 
         | Isn't the lede here that this isn't just some random data
         | sharing agreement between companies, but that these are both
         | Chinese companies, and the recipient of the data has been
         | banned in the U.S. precisely because of data concerns?
        
         | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
         | I recently had an experience that genuinely surprised me: I was
         | watching a Peruvian video on YouTube, and I clicked on the
         | creator's Instagram profile link in the description. Literally
         | a few minutes later I received a promotional email with
         | services and investment opportunities from an official Peruvian
         | government email. Somehow opening an Instagram profile of a
         | Peruvian creator got me tagged as a potential investor? But the
         | most shocking part was how _quickly_ this all happened.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | Here is my story. I needed to buy central console for my car
       | (purchased it a while ago in used cars lot). Went to Amazon and
       | made my selection. Next thing is I see is the warning: this
       | particular console will not fit you car which is MAKE: XXXY,
       | MODEL: YYYY, YEAR: ZZZZ. How's that for data sharing.
        
         | linkregister wrote:
         | At some point you have entered your car data while searching
         | for another car part on Amazon. Amazon caches this information.
        
       | rfoo wrote:
       | ... in the same way a lot of website in this world 'shared user
       | data' with Google.
       | 
       | Through Google Analytics.
       | 
       | Yeah, believe it or not. ByteDance has a cloud offering. And it
       | includes a frontend APM product. And DeepSeek used that. How
       | surprising! A Chinese company used a Chinese cloud.
       | 
       | Oh, and chat.deepseek.com resolve to a Huawei Cloud IP address in
       | China. It resolves to Cloudflare outside of mainland China, but
       | who knows, maybe they just decided to wrap with another CDN and
       | their servers are still on Huawei Cloud. So they sent data to
       | Huawei, too. I repeat, H-U-A-W-E-I. That cursed telecom equipment
       | company in the States.
        
       | kccqzy wrote:
       | > These references suggest deep integration with ByteDance's
       | analytics and performance monitoring infrastructure
       | 
       | I mean when I visit a random website or open a random app, I kind
       | of expect that it will use something like Google Analytics or
       | Firebase Crashlytics so that my "user data" is shared with
       | Google.
       | 
       | If the article wants me to feel outraged about this practice, I
       | don't. I understand that analytics and performance monitoring are
       | often outsourced to a third party, often without a choice of
       | turning off the analytics and performance monitoring features in
       | the first place.
       | 
       | I use the DeepSeek app happily without giving it any data I
       | consider private. I have a separate local DeepSeek distilled
       | model for that.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _South Korea bans new DeepSeek AI downloads_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43076325
        
       | xizst94 wrote:
       | Bruhh, your iphone and android will literally "share" what you
       | are saying even in private with anyone they can find for
       | advertising... so this should not be surprising
        
       | cekanoni wrote:
       | Like there is no data sharing between OpenAI and other big tech
       | in US....
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | I guess we know how many bots are commenting on this article
       | based on how many of them are talking about the US, when the
       | article is about South Korea?
        
         | davidcbc wrote:
         | Does that make you a bot for not realizing the article also
         | talks about US researchers coming to a similar conclusion?
        
       | varenc wrote:
       | Some missing context is that the data is shared via the DeepSeek
       | app's use of ByteDance analytics/configuration frameworks. So not
       | a backroom deal where DeekSeek handed over the chat history for
       | its user base, but rather ongoing analytics data being sent from
       | the DeepSeek mobile app.
       | 
       | Here's the SecurityScoreCard article that brought attention to
       | this: https://securityscorecard.com/blog/a-deep-peek-at-
       | deepseek/#...
       | 
       | Besides the usual analytics data (device metadata, user behavior,
       | app performance, errors, etc), it's possible raw chat data is
       | being shared as well, but it's not a smoking gun.
        
         | unclebucknasty wrote:
         | Interesting, but I don't think those details will be
         | ameliorative to the people who are concerned (e.g. U.S.
         | Congress).
         | 
         | In fact, I wonder if it may further underscore their concerns,
         | given that it surfaces the interconnectedness between all of
         | these firms.
        
         | nicce wrote:
         | So Deepkseek is not sharing more data than most advertising-
         | funded apps in the world?
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Reminder on various DeepSeek problems:
       | 
       | 1. DeepSeek is full of propaganda/censorship
       | (https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/01/the-questions-the-chinese...)
       | 
       | 2. They already had a serious security and privacy issue when
       | they left their database wide open and leaked everyone's chat
       | history (https://www.wiz.io/blog/wiz-research-uncovers-exposed-
       | deepse... )
       | 
       | 3. Multiple teams of security researchers found code that links
       | DeepSeek to the Chinese government through China Mobile, who is
       | banned from operating in the US
       | (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/researchers-link-deepseek...)
       | 
       | 4. Other countries like South Korea are banning DeepSeek already
       | over privacy concerns (https://mashable.com/article/south-korea-
       | blocks-deepseek)
       | 
       | Trump needs to enforce PAFACA and ban TikTok, but also ban
       | DeepSeek, which has the same exact issues since it is also
       | effectively operated by a foreign adversary and poses various
       | security threats.
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | Shouldn't this be the other way around? TikTok has the most user
       | data for any LLM to train with. I bet they will make a killing
       | with it, unless of course the CCP decrees that they share it for
       | free.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-18 23:00 UTC)