[HN Gopher] Kindle is removing download and transfer option on F...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Kindle is removing download and transfer option on Feb 26th
        
       Author : andyjohnson0
       Score  : 250 points
       Date   : 2025-02-16 18:13 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | nothingneko wrote:
       | i have owned kindles for the better part of a decade and
       | purchased books from the store a total of 4 times - the library
       | and friend's epub collections were far more appealing
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | Bad, but anyone sideloading would skip Kindles anyway for a long
       | time now for much better products.
        
         | locusofself wrote:
         | I think you can still sideload? Seems like this applies more to
         | getting stuff _off_ of the kindle to the P.C.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | No the books are downloaded from the Amazon site. This is
           | what is being removed.
           | 
           | They are for the specific purpose of officially supported
           | sideloading so that is also being removed. Sideloading books
           | from other sources is still ok.
        
         | locusofself wrote:
         | Also, what better products are there? Kobo? I have a kindle
         | oasis and it's a great device. Not that I love giving money to
         | Amazon, I avoid that when I can with library or at least
         | heavily discounted/public domain or side-loaded books whenever
         | possible.
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | I kept my oasis chugging for as long as I could stand it but
           | there was no replacement with physical buttons, so I switched
           | to a kobo colour. It's pretty great, if you install koreader
           | on it you can even get to an on-screen linux shell, if you
           | just have to bang out some awk on the bus.. :}
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | At least kobo still has physical buttons on most of their
           | devices. The oasis has them yes but it hasn't been updated in
           | many years. It lacks mod cons like light temperature and
           | white on black mode.
           | 
           | The one thing that really bothers me about Kobo is that they
           | no longer have a b/w reader in the Libra format. The Kobo
           | colour has so much worse contrast. That degradation is not
           | worth the slight benefit of mediocre colours for me. It
           | really means always needing the blacklight.
        
           | marklar423 wrote:
           | Kobo is definitely superior to Kindle in my book. The
           | hardware is great and it's completely open to sideloading and
           | even modding (it runs Linux under the hood).
           | 
           | I can't speak to their digital bookstore but they integrate
           | with Overdrive for library borrowing.
        
             | permo-w wrote:
             | besides books, which you can sideload very simply with
             | kindle, what do you need to sideload to your e-reader
        
               | poisonborz wrote:
               | Better reading software. KOReader is fantastic (also on
               | Kindle, if you jailbreak).
        
               | II2II wrote:
               | There are a few alternative e-reading applications.
               | KOReader and Plato are both under active development.
               | KOReader is great at reading PDF documents on e-ink
               | screens, has nicer options for accessing Wikipedia
               | articles, has useful options for tracking reading
               | progress (e.g. you can see which pages you have read,
               | which is useful while jumping around technical books),
               | and generally goes overboard in giving you control over
               | how a book is formatted. I have also seen random
               | applications make their way to the Kobo, and some people
               | use Kobo's for their own programming projects.
               | 
               | Another benefit is the ability to sideload software
               | without jailbreaking it. I'm not going to say it is easy,
               | since you need to know a bit about Unix to package your
               | own software for sideloading (verses something that
               | someone else packaged for you), but at least you can do
               | it using trusted applications (rather than downloading
               | something from a random third-party).
        
           | 8ytecoder wrote:
           | Kobo Libra color. If I'm being very honest, the screen isn't
           | as good as the oasis but it's a compromise I've accepted for
           | vastly superior hackability. I telnet into my kobo and
           | installed tailscale then pointed the api to my calibre web
           | instance, I have a much better experience overall because the
           | books are drm-free(d) and calibre web handles sync with kobo
           | really well.
           | 
           | And it has physical buttons. I was clinging to my oasis for
           | the buttons.
        
             | palata wrote:
             | > the screen isn't as good as the oasis
             | 
             | Genuinely interested: how good does the screen have to be
             | for mimicking text on paper? I have a Kindle from around
             | 2013, I don't think I would ever need a better quality?
             | 
             | > I telnet into my kobo and installed tailscale then
             | pointed the api to my calibre web instance
             | 
             | Wow that sounds great! This would make me consider a Kobo
             | now (though my old Kindle is still good enough) :-).
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | I use a Kindle and pretty much exclusively sideload. The
         | display and form factor are fantastic. Battery life is very
         | good. Last time I was in the market (late 2021), nothing else
         | was as good.
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | you're right. it's an e-reader that you can email any epub
           | file to and it'll read it. if you don't want to pirate,
           | there's a functional store. what more do people need?
        
             | palata wrote:
             | People say that Kobo is hackable. Is it not possible to set
             | up an email workflow there as well? Shouldn't be too hard,
             | right?
        
               | permo-w wrote:
               | I don't know about kobo, but I know that with kindle you
               | don't even have to hack it to do that, it's just a
               | default feature
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | _> you can email any ePub file_
             | 
             | Except when you can't, like literally yesterday: subscribed
             | to Asimov's, sent ePub, got a link, clicked a link, "that
             | link is not valid". Repeat, same message. Why? Who knows?
             | 
             | My next ereader won't be a Kindle.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | Can you clarify what you mean by "got a link"? If you're
               | using Send to Email, there shouldn't be any links
               | involved. You just, well, send an email to the designated
               | address with the ePub attached, and it shows up in your
               | library shortly after.
        
           | theshackleford wrote:
           | My kobo is easily as good as my kindle was. Only better,
           | because it has zero ties to Amazon.
        
           | poisonborz wrote:
           | I think the value of Kindles lies in Amazon's ecosystem.
           | Hardware-wise I think most competitors catched up. Kobos
           | especially are great, and have a much more open software
           | platform.
        
         | tormeh wrote:
         | The Pocketbook Era Color is the best e-reader right now if you
         | don't care about stores. Or at least it was the best device out
         | there when I was in the market for a reader.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | I sideload with my Kindle all the time and I don't expect to
         | switch away. It still lets me grab any random non-DRM ePub and
         | upload it over USB, or, better yet, add it directly to my cloud
         | library with Send to Email (and then I also get position &
         | bookmark sync across all devices etc).
        
         | devilbunny wrote:
         | I only use eInk to read at the beach or pool. I am still
         | happily using a Kindle 3G. That's an old, old model, but it
         | still works and it has physical page turn buttons. Too old to
         | work with the Kindle store even over WiFi. But sideloading
         | works just fine, and I always have a laptop on vacation. As
         | long as I have 3-4 books ready each day I'll never be caught
         | short. Download, strip DRM if desired, sideload.
         | 
         | Now I suppose it will just be Anna and me doing the sideload.
        
       | locusofself wrote:
       | It sounds like this applies to backing up to a hard drive etc,
       | and for some people, then removing DRM from their kindle books.
       | 
       | I understand the worry, but for me I was more worried about
       | losing the ability to side-load books, which I don't think is
       | being removed.
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Discussions
       | 
       | (120 points, 3 days ago, 93 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041726
       | 
       | (50 points, 2 days ago, 23 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43046995
       | 
       | (120 points, 1 day ago, 101 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058889
        
       | 42772827 wrote:
       | There have been several threads about this on HN over the past
       | few days and months. Just to avoid the confusion that seems to
       | follow these, a few notes:
       | 
       | (1) This is the "Download and Transfer" option where Amazon
       | allowed users to select books they had purchased a license to and
       | download them from the Amazon website.
       | 
       | (2) The ability to transfer books from your computer to your
       | Kindle using a USB cable is _not_ affected.
       | 
       | (3) The ability to send non-Amazon-licensed ePubs using the Send
       | to Kindle email feature is _not_ affected.
        
         | spookybones wrote:
         | I was reading a Reddit thread on this, and not a single person
         | there understood this. It isn't good news, but it's being
         | severely misinterpreted.
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | >I was reading a Reddit thread on this, and not a single
           | person there understood this
           | 
           | were you surprised by this revelation?
        
             | soygem wrote:
             | kek
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | > (2) The ability to transfer books from your computer to your
         | Kindle using a USB cable is _not_ affected.
         | 
         | Well, it kinda is. If you can no longer download the books you
         | paid for, you can't upload them over USB. That's what that
         | feature on their website was meant for, in fact.
         | 
         | Of course you can still upload non-Amazon content yes. Which is
         | probably what I'll end up doing. I won't buy books on Amazon
         | anymore if I can't remove the DRM.
        
           | 42772827 wrote:
           | You can still download books you paid a license to Amazon
           | for, you just have to use a Wi-Fi or 4G LTE-enabled Kindle to
           | do it.
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | Which may or may not be possible. For 2G Kindles like the
             | Kindle 2 there is no more 2G service and there is no Wifi.
             | Download and Transfer was the only remaining way to load
             | books on from Amazon without ironically removing the DRM.
        
               | 42772827 wrote:
               | Accurate info, edited my comment to specify.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Not suggesting it as a good option but does the Kindle
               | app on Windows and macOS not work with these devices?
        
               | goosedragons wrote:
               | Nope. Kindle for PC can't send books to devices.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Elsewhere here and Reddit it seems the trick is to use
               | the Kindle app plus Calibre.
               | 
               | Good luck with it.
        
             | Uvix wrote:
             | Assuming that you have Wi-fi and that your Kindle is
             | compatible with it. Someone with a hardwired-only
             | connection, an older Kindle that doesn't support Wi-fi at
             | all, or one that doesn't support WPA3 will be stymied.
             | 
             | (The models that don't support Wi-fi at all originally had
             | cellular service for wirelessly downloading books, but that
             | was sunset a few years ago. So there will be literally no
             | way to copy new books to those devices anymore.)
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Yeah and Amazon stopped supporting those kindles too. My
               | Kindle 4th gen no longer connects to the hive even with
               | WiFi. It's not a cellular model (and I think they had
               | dropped that option by then anyway). It's still the old
               | non-touch UI though.
               | 
               | Apparently it needs to be "up to date" but because Amazon
               | no longer publishes firmware updates, it is not.
        
             | loloquwowndueo wrote:
             | "Just" - my gen 2 kindle only has 2G connectivity so this
             | removal effectively renders it unable to get Amazon-
             | purchased books in any way. "Just" implies buying an
             | entirely new kindle "just because".
        
               | 42772827 wrote:
               | I mean, you're not wrong, but Woot has them on sale for
               | ~$30 fairly often. Your Gen 2 is about sixteen years old
               | at this point.
        
               | loloquwowndueo wrote:
               | That's $30 that I shouldn't have to spend. (And I mean,
               | no worries, I won't, I've had enough with Amazon
               | rendering perfectly good kindles obsolete, and I can get
               | plenty of books for free elsewhere - still, it's not a
               | choice I should have to make just so Amazon can save the
               | cost of what's essentially an app to check your
               | permissions and set up a pre signed s3 download link for
               | you).
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Yes but not over USB of course. Another thing that bothers
             | me about that, is that Amazon could block my account for
             | whatever reason and I'd lose access to all my content. Of
             | course this goes for many such services. Like Apple's app
             | store, google play, steam, microsoft store (not like anyone
             | ever uses that lol), content bought on itunes etc.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | Or their app, on any platform where you can get access to
             | its file store (e.g. Android, Windows, macOS...).
        
         | jsbisviewtiful wrote:
         | Thanks. I feel like the commentary and "news blogs" around this
         | have been very confusing.
        
         | bo1024 wrote:
         | This is far worse for me than the other possible interpretation
         | - that you could download books but not transfer them. I buy
         | Amazon e-books to read them on other e-readers, but now it
         | looks like I can't.
        
           | freeAgent wrote:
           | That's the bottom line. Kindle books will now be fully locked
           | into the Kindle ecosystem and if Amazon decides to take back
           | something you've "purchased," you'll have no recourse. I'm
           | done purchasing ebooks from Amazon because of this.
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | TIL that Kobo integrates with libraries, that means you can
             | download and read library ebooks on your Kobo.
        
               | arez wrote:
               | yep, that's exactly why I got a Kobo, so much better
        
               | cowsandmilk wrote:
               | Kobo is owned by Rakuten who used to own Overdrive/Libby.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Kindle does this too via Libby.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | For people already locked into Kindle, I don't know what to tell
       | you. (Unless you DRM-crack, and get into the gray areas of the
       | piracy culture that's _creating_ much of the DRM problems.)
       | 
       | But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a DRM-
       | free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.
       | 
       | One solution I found is to buy ebooks as DRM-free EPUBs and PDFs,
       | and read them in open source desktop tools and on my relatively
       | decent PocketBook InkPad Lite.
       | 
       | Some details at: https://www.neilvandyke.org/ebooks/
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | > (Unless you DRM-crack, and get into the gray areas of the
         | piracy culture that's _creating_ much of the DRM problems.)
         | 
         | Meh. Even if there was no piracy there'd be DRM. It's not only
         | used to limit privacy but also how you can legitimately use
         | stuff you bought. Like how many devices you can access it on.
         | Or how many times you can view video content.
         | 
         | In fact I think the presence of piracy helps keep prices low.
         | I'm sure Netflix would raise prices even more if they weren't
         | losing customers to piracy every time they raise prices or add
         | crap like ads.. And really, DRM does absolutely nothing to
         | prevent this. It's not as if the latest shows aren't on the
         | pirate bay hours after they appear on Netflix.
         | 
         | > But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a
         | DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.
         | 
         | That would be very nice yes, if there were one. I don't think
         | there's anything like GOG for books. But yes I do always buy my
         | games on GOG if they are available there.
        
           | buu709 wrote:
           | ebooks.com does tell you if a title has DRM or not, which
           | seems to be the best option currently. Outside of that I
           | haven't found much.
        
             | input_sh wrote:
             | Not that I've ever encountered it in the wild, but I feel
             | like pointing out that publishers _can_ opt-out of DRM on
             | Amazon as well. You 'd recognise them by this in the
             | description:
             | 
             | > At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold
             | without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied.
             | 
             | I only know about it because of Cory Doctorow, never seen
             | anyone else that does this. Heck, even re-packaged public
             | domain books contain DRM for some inexplicable reason.
        
               | goosedragons wrote:
               | Kobo also does it. They tell you in the eBook details.
               | It's the publisher's request. Publishers like Tor,
               | O'reily and Baen go DRM free. If the re-packaged public
               | domain books don't request it then on goes the DRM.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | The link lists a few places that have DRM-free ebooks, and
           | some examples of good technical books I've bought that way.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Hmm yeah but I don't tend to read technical books on
             | ereaders. Most of them require a bigger screen to be
             | usable. I only read fiction on my kindle.
             | 
             | I haven't seen a good store that has the usual popular
             | content without DRM. Well except on paper of course :)
             | 
             | But yeah I didn't know that existed for tech books. In fact
             | the ones I bought online were from big publishers and quite
             | expensive compared to fiction books. But perhaps that's
             | just my niche.
        
           | sitkack wrote:
           | That is what DRM is _for_. Same as the region locking in
           | DVDs. It is about segmenting markets, preventing competition
           | and ensuring that the publishers can sell the same content
           | over and over again.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Yes I know, my point was that not pirating is not helping
             | to remove DRM from the world as the OP was suggesting.
        
               | sitkack wrote:
               | Agree, my comment was for the room.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | You can always load 3rd-party DRM-free books and I don't see
         | Amazon removing that. Their hardware and ecosystem aren't
         | _that_ much better than everyone else 's.
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | > But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a
         | DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.
         | 
         | I dream of a day when that's possible, but all of the massive
         | publishers with over 80% of book marketshare insist on DRM.
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | > and get into the gray areas of the piracy culture that's
         | creating much of the DRM problems
         | 
         | This is an interesting framing, mainly because it can be
         | flipped 180 degrees around. "Shinier and more impregnable DRM
         | just creates problems that lock you into certain devices and
         | usage patterns, which simply create much of the gray area of
         | piracy culture"
         | 
         | I mean, you're literally starting out by _not trusting the
         | person who fucking purchased your product_ and then furthermore
         | also _artificially limiting them in how they can use that
         | content and on what devices!_
         | 
         | Imagine if every marriage began with an un-shut-offable
         | location tracker in your wedding band. You'd be complaining
         | about the "cheating culture that has contributed to the need to
         | install uncircumventable perma-trackers on the newly-married...
         | and also, everyone who tries to disable them OBVIOUSLY just
         | wants to cheat" /eye-roll
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | > One solution I found is to buy ebooks as DRM-free EPUBs and
         | PDFs
         | 
         | Unfortunately, for many, many books, this isn't possible, at
         | least legally.
        
         | mfashby wrote:
         | > But it would be healthy for everyone if people supported a
         | DRM-free and non-surveillance ebook ecosystem.
         | 
         | I try nearly every time. The book I want (usually sci-fi
         | recommended to me by friends) is never available from any DRM
         | free shop I can find.
         | 
         | I end up buying from Amazon because their DRM is the most
         | convenient to remive. And I go to the effort to remove it
         | because I want to keep the content I buy, not have it disappear
         | when the DRM key holder decides to take it away from me.
        
       | Retr0id wrote:
       | By the way, all kindle models are currently jailbreakable:
       | https://kindlemodding.org/jailbreaking/WinterBreak/
        
         | rafram wrote:
         | As far as I can tell, the main benefit of jailbreaking is to be
         | able to install a reader that supports more ebook formats,
         | since a stock Kindle can already browse the web and read ebooks
         | from any source, but it only supports MOBI/AZW3, and the Send
         | to Kindle EPUB converter is not very good. But it's easy enough
         | to use Calibre to do a lossless EPUB -> AZW3 conversion without
         | the hassle of jailbreaking. Is there some other benefit that
         | I'm missing?
        
           | jerjerjer wrote:
           | Folders.
        
             | aradox66 wrote:
             | Ohhh shit
        
           | beshrkayali wrote:
           | It's a bit more than just supporting additional formats.
           | KOReader for example is a highly customizable (and mature)
           | reader that's hard to beat. Plenty of plugins exist also. In
           | particular, one nice thing about the Calibre plugin is
           | wireless sending of books and progress sync across device(s)
           | and desktop.
        
         | shasheene wrote:
         | Oh finally! I have a Kindle Scribe, and it's really amazing
         | hardware, but it's unusable for reading websites like Wikipedia
         | and sending links to it using the Amazon bookmarklet is a
         | pretty bad experience.
         | 
         | The biggest issue is the web browser doesn't have pagination,
         | ie a next page button. *It only supports smooth scrolling using
         | the touch screen*. Which on an e-ink display is a completely
         | awful, insanely frustrating experience that I can't believe
         | they ship it (and the Scribe is an 11th generation product).
         | 
         | Using a web browser to read pure text is a blurred mess that's
         | takes several painful seconds to slowly scroll to the next
         | page.
         | 
         | Since I bought the Kindle Scribe (big mistake due to the above
         | issue), I've wanted to jailbreak it to install a non-terrible
         | Wikipedia browser.
         | 
         | Eg the one available in the KOReader project -- the open-source
         | alternative eink-optimized ebook app that is widely-supported
         | across the eink ecosystem (including older Kindles).
         | 
         | Thanks for heads up that a jailbreak is finally available!
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | The Scribe should be so much better but all the issues you
           | mentioned put me off buying one.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43046995
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43039924
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041726
        
       | rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
       | Kobo has a sideloading mode that disables all connected-services
       | by default (no need for an account, no online store necessary).
       | Highly recommended alternative.
       | 
       | https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2022/01/21/kobo-software-u...
        
       | wiether wrote:
       | I hear the complaints about Kindle but...
       | 
       | How are we supposed to do?
       | 
       | In three "taps" I buy a book and 10s later I start reading it.
       | Legally. The device just works.
       | 
       | The alternatives? Libraries here (France) have a very limited
       | offer of ebooks. Even for ebooks in English. I owned a Kobo circa
       | 2013 and it was awful. I tried friend's devices more recently,
       | and it's not the UX I expect from a "book".
       | 
       | A simple comparison; "Parable of the Sower", bought it for
       | 3.49EUR on amazon.fr, it's at 5.26EUR on ebooks.com and it still
       | got DRMs.
       | 
       | Even pirating is less convenient: some files are buggy, some
       | files are weird OCR of physical books, you have to deal with the
       | download and transfer...
       | 
       | And I just can't read physical books. I hate that.
       | 
       | So usually, if I really enjoy an ebook, I buy a physical copy in
       | a local bookstore and give it to a friend/whoever I think is
       | going to like it.
       | 
       | I would love an open ecosystem where I could rent ebooks from a
       | library, and buy books that can be read wherever I want. But
       | that's not going to happen because the big guns of the industry
       | think they know better.
       | 
       | So that's where I'm at: buying & reading books in Amazon's walled
       | garden, or doing neither at all.
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | > Even pirating is less convenient
         | 
         | I stopped reading ebooks and actually moved to physical books,
         | but from what I remember pirated books were super convenient. I
         | had this giant library of tons and tons of scifi/fantasy books
         | I once randomly copied from someone and it didn't even take
         | that much storage space. It lasted me my childhood and I've
         | only managed to read a small fraction of it.
        
           | aradox66 wrote:
           | Sci Fi more than a decade old is the golden zone for piracy.
           | Everything else is harder. Contemporary books, very hard.
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | Sci Fi tends more likely to be DRM free. Baen has been
             | selling DRM free eBooks for forever direct and TOR also has
             | a DRM free policy.
        
         | goosedragons wrote:
         | What exactly is the UX you want from an eReader? I find Kindles
         | and Kobos are pretty similar. So I'm curious what exactly was
         | better about Amazon. I personally find Amazon has worse text
         | options, font sizing, line spacing etc.
         | 
         | I have purchased eBooks that were just bad OCRs, some
         | publishers just don't care.
         | 
         | Kobo will also price match with Amazon, you get credit back and
         | an extra 10% too.
        
           | Uvix wrote:
           | I'm intrigued that you think Kindle has worse text options
           | than Kobo; in my experience it's the other way around. My
           | Kobo doesn't have the ability to justify just body text while
           | leaving headings alone; my Kindles have handled that just
           | fine for over a decade.
           | 
           | What options does Kobo have for text that you think Kindle is
           | missing?
           | 
           | I use my Kobo for comics and buy those through them
           | (specifically got one with a large screen since Amazon didn't
           | have a similar device), but I don't know if I'd switch to
           | Kobo for novels. I'd rather buy from Kobo and sideload to my
           | Kindle.
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | Line, paragraph spacing, fonts and font sizing and margins.
             | Amazon has like 6 options of each. One of which I consider
             | almost tolerable (but not quite) and the rest are useless.
             | Kobo has a LOT more play with these settings and much
             | easier to get something I like.
        
             | chipotle_coyote wrote:
             | With my Kobo Libra 2, if I set justification to "off", it
             | follows the justification that's in the ebook -- which
             | usually tend to do exactly what you're asking, e.g.,
             | justify body text while leaving headers alone.
             | 
             | When I switched over to Kobo a few years ago, it seemed
             | much easier to manage custom fonts, too, although I think
             | Kindle has improved in that regard. I don't think there's a
             | tremendous amount of difference between the two in practice
             | anymore, though. (In terms of text handling, that is.)
        
               | Uvix wrote:
               | Unfortunately many ebooks don't specify a default
               | justification on their body text, so with "off", my Kobo
               | Sage will left-align the text in those books.
               | 
               | Agree that I think Kobo better manages custom fonts from
               | what I've seen. (I don't use a custom font so I'm not
               | 100% up-to-date on the sordid details for either
               | platform.)
        
         | debo_ wrote:
         | In Canada, I use my (now 8-year old Kobo) plus a public library
         | app to borrow ebooks from our library system for free.
         | Everything just works. It's terrific. I'm sorry to hear the
         | same doesn't work where you are.
        
         | chipotle_coyote wrote:
         | I can't speak to the experience in France, but my experience
         | with Kobo in the US has been that it's just as good as a Kindle
         | in most respects, and better in some others, such as
         | integration with Overdrive and Pocket. (My understanding is
         | that Kindles have gotten better at Overdrive since I left that
         | ecosystem.)
         | 
         | I mean, I can buy a book on a Kobo and read it legally in just
         | as few taps, and I can also _borrow_ a book on Kobo and read it
         | legally.
         | 
         | Also, Kobo plays more nicely with Calibre, including a much
         | nicer DRM-stripping management plugin, which seems relevant to
         | the overall topic of this thread -- all the Kindle DRM removal
         | plugin how-tos out there stopped working reliably for me years
         | ago.
        
         | syntaxing wrote:
         | Uhh what? There's like four tabs for the Kobo interface, one
         | specifically for books. You literally just click the book you
         | want to read...Not sure what more you want from an ereader or
         | how much easier it can get.
        
         | palata wrote:
         | > I owned a Kobo circa 2013 and it was awful.
         | 
         | I got my Kindle around that time, even though I had actively
         | looked for alternatives. Nothing seemed to compare then.
         | 
         | But I'm ready to believe that now in 2025, Kobo caught up? I
         | read many comments here praising Kobo.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | > _some files are weird OCR of physical books_
         | 
         | Kindle store has those too.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | I own Kindles and I have bought a lot of ebook content from the
       | Amazon store over the years but they don't seem to realize that
       | the more restrictions they put in place, the more they are
       | incentivizing just someone going to the effort to decrypt/de-DRM
       | everything to epub and shoving it into a Kobo (or apple's
       | Books.app, or comic book reader, or anything else that reads the
       | ebook or comic book formats)
       | 
       | ...Which is exactly what I ended up doing. Decrypting 100% of my
       | Kindle purchases so I can use them how I please, and using
       | z-library when I was too lazy to even do so.
       | 
       | Apple understood this when the first iPod came out. Offer a
       | better service, not shinier handcuffs.
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | What do you use to decrypt your Kindle purchases? I haven't yet
         | found anything that works with modern purchases.
        
           | pmarreck wrote:
           | Most forums frown on sharing such information, but seek and
           | ye shall find. Also, it's good to leave speed bumps in place
           | due to the ethical concerns.
           | 
           | The last time I did it I had to basically procure an old
           | Kindle app and get the content via that, because it used a
           | weaker version of DRM. That loophole may have been closed in
           | the meantime, though.
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | >Apple understood this when the first iPod came out. Offer a
         | better service, not shinier handcuffs.
         | 
         | It's a shame they haven't tried to pressure the publishers into
         | dropping DRM for books.
         | 
         | The DRM used by Apple's bookstore is entirely limited to
         | Apple's own apps on its own devices. You can't even read the
         | books in a web browser.
        
           | pmarreck wrote:
           | Which is why I try to decrypt everything I purchase, or
           | obtain a decrypted version after purchase. (The only grey-
           | area exception is if I own the physical copy of the book, I
           | consider it ethical to download the ebook, but this is of
           | course debatable to a degree)
           | 
           | I'm not trying to screw over authors and publishers, I just
           | want to use my purchased content how I please.
           | 
           | They could easily do what Apple did and leave things un-DRM'd
           | but digitally-signed as having been purchased by someone.
        
             | portaouflop wrote:
             | Buying hard copies of a book and the pirating the DRM-free
             | digital version is completely acceptable imo - as long as
             | you buy the hard copy in a bookshop and not online ilk like
             | Amazon. Most local bookshops also will offer shipping if
             | you're too lazy to walk there a couple of times/year.
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | The first iPod and iTunes stores were very full of DRM.
        
           | freeAgent wrote:
           | Yup, and thankfully piracy outcompeted them so Apple gave it
           | up.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | The vast majority of Kindle users do not possess the technical
         | expertise or inclination to decrypt/de-DRM their purchases.
         | But, also, I doubt that the kind of workflow that is affected
         | by this change is something that would even register for most.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | How do I jailbreak Kindle books so they aren't later removed or
       | restricted in weird ways?
        
       | compootr wrote:
       | something something library genesis
        
       | amluto wrote:
       | This is especially obnoxious for books that are already DRM-free.
       | For example, one can presently buy a Tor (the publisher, not the
       | onion router) book from the Kindle store, download the azw3 file,
       | use a tool like KindleUnpacker [0] to more or less losslessly
       | convert it to ePub, and read it anywhere. There's no DRM to
       | break!
       | 
       | [0] KindleUnpacker follows in the IMO utterly bizarre tradition
       | in the epub tool writing scene of making it obvious how to run a
       | really bad Tk UI wrapper and hiding the actual command-line tool
       | in lib/. And of wanting an output _directory_ instead of a
       | filename. And of leaving a whole pile of unnecessary temporary
       | files around. And of forcing you to look through the temporary
       | crap to even find the output. Oh well; the actual output is
       | excellent.
        
       | yohbho wrote:
       | Stallman calls it Swindle, for a reason. Actually, many reasons.
        
       | addicted wrote:
       | I'm not sure why anyone buys Kindles when there are so many
       | better options available.
       | 
       | I bought a Kobo Clara years ago, and it supports regular MOBI and
       | ePub files.
       | 
       | My book purchases are no longer liked with the reader and I've
       | never had a problem in all these years. And this wasn't even the
       | best or best value for money device I could have bought.
       | 
       | Today there are so many other better alternatives in all price
       | points and form factors.
        
         | EA-3167 wrote:
         | I couldn't agree more. I use a Boox e-reader, and I had no
         | interest in using the Kindle app, so stripping the DRM (on
         | books I'd purchased, for my own use only) was a selling point.
         | Without that I'm just moving my business over to Kobo, Calibre
         | + a plugin and there's no DRM issue.
         | 
         | I won't pretend to know if there are enough people like us to
         | impact Amazon's calculus, but I hope there are.
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | >I'm not sure why anyone buys Kindles when there are so many
         | better options available.
         | 
         | For me, the Kobo lacks something like the Send to Kindle
         | feature.
         | 
         | I can send books I've obtained from outside the Kindle Store
         | (DRM free sellers, Humble Bundle, public domain etc.) and then
         | store them in my Kindle library.
         | 
         | These are then synchronised across all of my Kindle devices and
         | apps - completely for free
         | 
         | Kobo does have integration with cloud storage, but it's not the
         | same feature.
         | 
         | Plus it has the Kindle Store, which has the biggest selection
         | of books for sale.
        
           | palata wrote:
           | > Plus it has the Kindle Store, which has the biggest
           | selection of books for sale.
           | 
           | Because Amazon abuses its position to get there, right? I see
           | how it makes it more convenient, but I also see how that is a
           | reason for not buying a Kindle.
        
             | testfrequency wrote:
             | Correct.
             | 
             | Maybe more intensely, if a book is available on Kindle
             | Unlimited, Amazon has exclusive rights to the book and it
             | is not available on any other digital store.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | Isn't that what Calibre is for?
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | Calibre doesn't automatically sync books across all your
             | devices, including last read position, bookmarks,
             | highlights etc.
        
         | tfsh wrote:
         | Massive +1 to this, I'd recommend using Calibre to manage your
         | library and any Kobo reader as the companion, I manage a
         | massive 2000+ book library like like this, and never
         | encountered issues with syncing, corrupt file systems, etc,
         | which I did regularly with Kindle.
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | People don't buy Kindles for the hardware. They buy Kindles
         | because they work with a store that has the books they want to
         | buy (and the hardware is good enough and cheap enough).
         | 
         | Without data I believe that more than 99% of ereader users have
         | no idea what a MOBI or ePub file is and have never attempted to
         | manually move a file onto their device. Instead, they go to a
         | digital book store, click "buy", and content appears on their
         | device.
         | 
         | Amazon does that as well as (better than?) any competitor, and
         | crucially their store has the books people want.
         | 
         | I don't want a subscription store filled exclusively with LLM-
         | generated trash. I don't really want to have to find which of a
         | thousand websites will sell a DRM-free copy of something so I
         | can buy it, download it, transcode it in Calibre into a format
         | my device reads, and transfer it to my device. I'd much rather
         | pay a few dollars, click a button that sends some money to the
         | author and sends a book to my device.
         | 
         | This whole comments section reeks of "I don't understand why
         | anyone uses Windows when Linux is so easy to get to", managing
         | to simultaneously assume every user has a degree in computer
         | science and overlooking all the rough edges.
        
           | OvbiousError wrote:
           | The alternative I see mentioned here is kobo. I haven't
           | used/owned a kindle so I don't know what amazon do better
           | than the kobo store. I can say that I've bought over 50 books
           | on the kobo store, can't recall a single instance of it not
           | having a book I wanted.
        
             | ryantgtg wrote:
             | Another reason people (e.g., my mother in law) buy kindles
             | is that the price of ebooks is very often much less from
             | Amazon than from the Kobo store. My mother in law wants to
             | be like us and so she recently bought a kobo. But then she
             | bought herself a new kindle as well simply so she can buy
             | cheaper books and then transfer them (which she hasn't
             | figured out how to do, and which according to this thread
             | will no longer be possible).
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | It is (was) very convenient to buy ebooks on Amazon, download
         | them to Calibre, and strip them of DRM so that you ended up
         | owning them for real.
         | 
         | If that's no longer possible then there's no point in using
         | Amazon for this, yes.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | Three reasons for me.
         | 
         | First, Kindle Oasis has a great form factor. I want a reader
         | that is shaped conveniently to hold with one hand and flip
         | pages without having to lift my thumb. Oasis does exactly that.
         | 
         | Second, I find that Amazon is the most likely to have books
         | that I care about. Other catalogs aren't as extensive, and
         | depending on your preferences, this can get really noticeable.
         | 
         | Lastly, I already have a very large Kindle library from way
         | back, and switching to a different incompatible device means
         | abandoning all of that.
        
         | rochav wrote:
         | Well, Amazon does have a global presence, for worse rather than
         | better in my opinion, but I live in Brazil and, as far as I am
         | aware, there isn't really any other decent e-reader brand
         | selling its devices here officially and conversion rates plus
         | taxes would make it really expensive to import anything else,
         | so that could be a reason.
         | 
         | I have an 2016 basic kindle that I use often, it is sideloaded
         | with KOreader (official software didn't support epubs when I
         | bought it) and I mainly use it for non-amazon books through
         | Calibre or cable transfer.
        
       | fractallyte wrote:
       | I spent yesterday morning downloading _ALL_ my (~2400) Kindle
       | books using the command line utility from
       | https://github.com/yihong0618/Kindle_download_helper
       | 
       | In case anyone else needs to do something similar: Log in to your
       | Amazon account > Manage Your Content and Devices
       | 
       | Copy the cookie and save it to a file ('cookie.txt'):
       | https://github.com/yihong0618/Kindle_download_helper?tab=rea...
       | 
       | Execute the Python utility (this example accesses amazon.co.uk):
       | python kindle.py --cookie-file cookie.txt --uk -o DOWNLOADS
       | --device_sn [Your Kindle serial no.] --mode all
       | 
       | You can also download a JSON list containing details of all your
       | Kindle books:                 python kindle.py --cookie-file
       | cookie.txt --uk --list --device_sn [Your Kindle serial no.]
       | 
       | There are other methods outlined in the README, but this worked
       | best for me.
       | 
       | I also extracted a list of cover URLs from the JSON file using a
       | basic Python script (with output redirected to a file
       | 'covers.txt'):                 import json       with open('book-
       | list.json') as f:         json_data = json.load(f)            for
       | i in range(len(json_data)):
       | print(json_data[i]['productImage'])
       | 
       | And then I used wget to download them all too:
       | wget --wait=3 --random-wait --input-file=covers.txt
       | 
       | Of course, the books are still DRM'd, but it's trivial to DeDRM
       | them later. The crucial thing was to _get the files before it 's
       | too late!_
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | Last time I tried to DeDRM my Kindle book collection, there
         | were many books with "newer" DRM that wasn't possible to strip.
         | Did that improve recently?
        
       | linotype wrote:
       | I just ordered a Kobo. Done with Amazon.
        
         | rocky1138 wrote:
         | Someone above mentioned all models are jailbreak-able.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | I don't really get the Kindle hype. Kobo is a vastly better
       | experience and the unlimited plans are more affordable. Kobo is
       | $8 a month, $10 for books and audiobooks. Kindle is $12 flat.
       | Kobo has g drive and Dropbox integration. Also the e-readers use
       | the same screens (minus the "colorsoft" which is still a e-ink
       | product).
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | Marketing, first mover advantage, brand recognition, entrenched
         | userbase, ubiquitous company name.
         | 
         | People use Kindles because they're the easiest to find, most
         | well known, integrated with one of the most popular online shps
         | on the planet that also encourages easy publishing, were one of
         | the first, used to "just work", don't need to be changed,
         | already have their books on there, and so on.
        
         | josteink wrote:
         | Uh. My Kindle cost me $100 like 8-10 years ago and has
         | literally zero running costs.
         | 
         | What are these figures you are mentioning?
         | 
         | If a Kobo means a monthly fee, I swear I'll never even consider
         | getting one.
        
           | vohk wrote:
           | They're referring to the subscription plans that give you
           | unlimited access to their catalogue (or at least most of it),
           | like Spotify versus buying an album. Both Kobo and Kindle
           | offer individual purchases as well.
        
           | tfsh wrote:
           | Kobos doesn't require a subscription. I switched from a
           | Kindle to a Kobo Clara Colour recently and it's honestly one
           | of the best tech choices I've ever made. Kobos are hackable
           | by default, so you can literally plug them into Chrome and
           | flash new software onto them via WebUSB (or just via the file
           | system). The real kicker for me though is the support with
           | Calibre, I have a massive collection of maybe 2000 books, and
           | this perfectly syncs with my Kobo supporting filtering,
           | collections, etc. attempting this with even 10 books with my
           | Kindle would routinely break down, books not appearing even
           | after waiting hours for it to index, corrupt file systems,
           | etc, the entire device is designed to push you towards Amazon
           | store, including the scammy "pay PS20 more to remove adverts"
           | and them disguising the actual price as "reduced".
           | 
           | The fee GP pointed to is a monthly subscription similar to
           | Amazon's Kindle book club offering.
        
           | syntaxing wrote:
           | I meant the book and audiobook subscription. It's equivalent
           | to Kindle Unlimited.
        
         | p1necone wrote:
         | Idk about Kobo plus, the content available on it all seems to
         | basically be the written equivalent of shovelware (unknown
         | authors, questionable quality). I've almost never searched for
         | a modern book I want to read and found it available on the
         | subscription service.
         | 
         | Agree everything else is better though, and Amazon's equivalent
         | subscription library could be just as bad for all I know.
        
       | Hackbraten wrote:
       | I bought a Tolino vision color (a rebranded Kobo Libra Color with
       | shittier software) a few months ago. If Amazon no longer allows
       | me to download purchased books, I can no longer de-DRM them and
       | read them offline on my phone, on my Tolino or on my computer. It
       | seems that most stores outside Amazon have even shittier DRM than
       | Amazon has. How am I going to be able to buy books in the future
       | so I can actually read them?
       | 
       | I'm absolutely willing to pay for ebooks. I always did. For me,
       | removal of the download feature will absolutely be a bookalypse.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Kobo, I never had problems downloading the books and getting
         | rid of the DRM.
        
       | kqr2 wrote:
       | Is there a script to download all your Kindle books?
        
         | abawany wrote:
         | perhaps this will help you as well:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43071284 .
        
       | Dxtros wrote:
       | does anyone know if this affects the older versions of kindle for
       | pc? You're able to download your books from there still
       | currently.
        
       | bloomingkales wrote:
       | Libby is the way to go. It's going to suck when they defund the
       | library.
        
       | nindalf wrote:
       | I have a medium sized collection of Kindle books. I stay in the
       | ecosystem because I enjoy the convenience of being able to read
       | on my phone and tablet, and I enjoy being able to write and sync
       | notes and highlights.
       | 
       | I would have liked to have all the books on my hard drive, fully
       | searchable. But it seems like it won't be possible now? I guess
       | I'll have to make do with my notes.
        
       | exe34 wrote:
       | Thank goodness I made a habit of downloading and unlocking the
       | books that I bought on Amazon. I would hate to rush and download
       | >100 books one by one now.
        
       | npteljes wrote:
       | Good reminder to all of us to check the dependencies from time to
       | time. Services don't last forever, which is not a problem at all,
       | if people enter into contract consciously. What's painful is
       | overly relying on a service, and then having the rug pulled from
       | underneath the feet.
       | 
       | I don't think that this instance is particularly painful, but the
       | lesson is still the same. If it's important, it's worth to back
       | up at least the metadata.
        
       | NunoSempere wrote:
       | I bought a Pocketbook after Amazon started nagging too much about
       | connecting to the wifi. Would recommend.
        
         | abawany wrote:
         | Pocketbook is a solid choice. I've been very happy with my
         | Pocketbok Inkpad Color 3 - their free cloud offering is great
         | for transferring my ebooks around and their send-to feature is
         | also great. I've never trusted the Kindle jail but in my
         | various trials with eink devices, I've come to appreciate the
         | clean experience that Pocketbook currently offers.
        
       | samjohnson wrote:
       | I've tried leaving kindle but keep coming back because of how
       | well it syncs side-loaded (via email) epub reading progress
       | between the physical reader and the kindle app on my iPhone.
       | 
       | I recently got a Boox Palma, which I love, but the Android Kindle
       | app can't display time remaining in a chapter for emailed epubs.
       | I find this very surprising, considering both the kindle hardware
       | readers and iPhone kindle app have no problem doing this. Sharing
       | this story in case someone else has run into this and identified
       | a solution.
        
       | rand17 wrote:
       | As of this writing I can still connect my kindle and then read
       | the kfx file with Calibre and then convert it to azw3 or epub
       | (with the dedrm plugin).
       | 
       | Should I loose every way to backup my books, then probably I'd
       | use tesseract, puppeteer and their cloud reader to re-ocr the
       | books (it's better than nothing). Also note that the country I
       | live in, libraries have no ebooks. Kobo drm is another nuisance.
        
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