[HN Gopher] Statement or eyesore? Japan's divisive brutalist bui...
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       Statement or eyesore? Japan's divisive brutalist buildings - in
       pictures
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2025-02-16 12:00 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | didgeoridoo wrote:
       | I get that the "rawness" of the concrete is what literally makes
       | these "brutalist", but to my layman's eye, dying the concrete
       | almost always makes the building appear more attractive and less
       | like a post-Soviet ruin.
       | 
       | https://www.dezeen.com/tag/coloured-concrete/
        
       | makeitdouble wrote:
       | These are beautiful buildings and the article is worth t for the
       | pictures alone.
       | 
       | Now modern architecture is generally appreciated in Japan. For
       | instance the first one, the Okinawa art museum is rated 4.2/5 as
       | a destination on domestic sites
       | 
       | https://www.jalan.net/kankou/spt_47201ae3302051347/kuchikomi...
       | 
       | Is the "divisive" bit in the title just clickbait ?
        
         | derbOac wrote:
         | There's a quote from the photographer in the article:
         | "Brutalist architecture in Japan might not ruffle feathers
         | locally but it's considered divisive elsewhere."
         | 
         | I agree the article title is confusing.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I love brutalism and have found myself
         | having to defend it lately in a way I didn't think would
         | happen.
        
           | DocTomoe wrote:
           | Maybe the photographer should stop telling other people in
           | other cultures what they are supposed to like or dislike.
        
             | theoreticalmal wrote:
             | Sharing the reasons behind one's own like or dislike can
             | easily come across as telling others what they should think
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | One difficult thing about it is that concrete weathers in a
           | way which is, let's say, not conventionally attractive. The
           | architects produce mockups where the walls are wide expanses
           | of pure pale gray, but rarely do a second mockup where
           | everything is covered in dark grimy streaks. This museum's
           | patterns of perforations distract from the weathering rather
           | well.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Boston City Hall in Mass is one ugly building. Unfortunately it
         | now has "landmark" status. Several Calif State Universities as
         | well decided to wear brutalist arch as a badge: Dominguez
         | Hills, San Jose, etc. I suppose it's cheap, so there's that.
        
         | randcraw wrote:
         | I don't think so. No building material is as ugly as concrete.
         | It starts ugly and only gets uglier with age as it inevitably
         | discolors and crumbles. There's really no way to make it
         | attractive.
         | 
         | Concrete's raison d'etre famously serves the ugly underside of
         | society -- a factory, a bomb shelter, a pillbox, a prison, a
         | slaughterhouse. And of course, building with concrete is
         | famously more ecologically destructive per sq ft than any other
         | building material. To build with it is to thrust a middle
         | finger at passers by while belting out the Horst Wessel song
         | (the Nazi anthem).
         | 
         | No, concrete is inescapably brutalist and devoid of charm at
         | every level. 'Divisive' is far too generous.
        
       | rubenbe wrote:
       | Incredible that there is no graffiti on any of them.
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | Apple TV+ used the International Conference Center in Kyoto as
       | the location for the headquarters of a weird dystopian robotics
       | company in their series "Sunny" and it was perfect.
       | 
       | (The show started out promising but didn't really work by the end
       | and was canceled on a cliffhanger.)
        
       | andrew_mason1 wrote:
       | come for the clickbait, stay for the real-life star wars
       | buildings
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I'm think Science Patrol from the O.G. Ultraman.
        
       | sega_sai wrote:
       | I had a chance of working in a few brutalist style buildings (in
       | different countries) and I hated it. All this concrete looks
       | pretty horrible and is depressing inside. This actually brings a
       | point about architecture. I feel that first and foremost the
       | building should be designed for people inside the building, while
       | how it looks from the outside should be lower priority. I do feel
       | sometimes it is the other way around, where the architects design
       | the building to win the awards and often aim at how unusual it's
       | going to look etc, but what the actual occupants of the building
       | will think is not really considered.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | For what it's worth, the concrete used in these type of
         | official building tend to look decent even as it ages.
         | 
         | I've seen none of the buildings in the article as they're
         | mostly out of Tokyo, but for instance the national art center
         | in Roppongi is raw concrete and it still looks very nice
         | 
         | https://www.nact.jp
        
         | taffer wrote:
         | The university I studied at was in a brutalist building. I
         | loved it and every time I see a brutalist building, it reminds
         | me of my time there.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Why did you find concrete depressing?
        
         | thrance wrote:
         | The main building in the college I studied at was called
         | "Magellan" and designed to look like a sextant when viewed from
         | above. I spent maybe 2 years in it before realizing that fact.
         | It was very awkwardly shaped and no two classrooms where the
         | same size.
         | 
         | It's located in a very rainy and cold part of the country, but
         | the roof was completely flat and often leaked from the
         | rainwater accumulating over it. The main hall had a giant
         | 3-storey glass wall facing north, and as a result the building
         | was extremely cold and a nightmare to heat up.
        
       | lupusreal wrote:
       | I hate all of those buildings, but I'm not Japanese so my opinion
       | doesn't matter. If the Japanese like those buildings they can
       | keep them, or tear them down if they don't. Their country, their
       | choice. If I were to butt my nose into their affairs,
       | architecture would be very low on my list of concerns.
        
       | voidfunc wrote:
       | One of the unspoken problems with brutalist buildings is that
       | many are now starting to enter the phase of life where they need
       | maintenance and it is expensive compared to other buildings.
       | 
       | Another problem is the buildings are ridiculously difficult to
       | gut and remodel for more modern use.
        
       | kjellsbells wrote:
       | It never rains in an architect's world.
       | 
       | The elegant lines, the broad sweeps, the little-people models and
       | their renderings, all exist on a sunny spring day in April.
       | 
       | People live in a world where it rains and snows and sun-bakes.
       | And, channeling my inner Jeff Goldblum, life finds a way.
       | 
       | Net result is that buildings that look beautiful on paper end up
       | gray and splodged with rust marks, mold, moss, water damage and
       | all the impacts of living on a wet planet.
       | 
       | Why anyone thought Brutalism would work in a country like the UK
       | for example is beyond me. Perhaps it works in Japan (to some
       | extent) because they have an intense pride in things being clean
       | and comme il faut. I speculate that they also appreciate honesty-
       | in-materials which is one of the tenets of Brutalism.
        
         | mjd wrote:
         | Don't all buildings in the UK end up splodged with rust marks,
         | mold, moss, and water damage? I'm not trying to be snarky here,
         | I just wonder why it doesn't bother you the same way and why
         | you're talking as if non-brutalist buildings are somehow immune
         | to the impacts of living on a wet planet.
         | 
         | Aren't there many buildings in the UK where the moss or the
         | weathering are considered picturesque and desirable?
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | There's a practical answer and a psychological answer.
           | 
           | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Br.
           | ..
           | 
           | That's Bridgewater House, which was in Downton Abbey, and
           | it's got some bad staining if you look closely. But it's
           | covered in details, so that tends to hide the dirt. It's made
           | from blocks of stone, and most of the staining is different
           | per block, so it only accentuates the blocks. There's nasty
           | stains on the balustrades, but they're such fussy structures
           | that you have to really look at them to notice it. The stone
           | spheres at upper right are, I believe, all covered in pigeon
           | shit, but again since they're small details and it's a fairly
           | even coating of pigeon shit it really doesn't look so bad.
           | The only parts where the stains stand out are on the small
           | section of blank wall to the right of the main building, and
           | around the entrance. They should probably clean those. But
           | since these are small and accessible areas, and not giant
           | expanses of blank smooth concrete, they probably _can_ clean
           | them (if English Heritage allows it).
           | 
           | So that's the practical side of it: details hide the muck.
           | But there's also this "picturesque and desirable" angle.
           | There are some deep-seated memes about romantic ruins. So
           | yes, some old castle or monastery or cottage can be damaged
           | and decaying in particular patterns that fit the tropes, and
           | something inside us says "how _storybook_ ", and suddenly
           | it's enchanting instead of gross. Which is kind of unfair. I
           | often like to think about how castles are really just
           | military installations that were originally full of special
           | forces waiting to pour out the gates astride their four-
           | legged APCs and subdue the local insurgents (especially in
           | Wales), and if we could see them through the eyes of those
           | locals they'd be threatening and oppressive and not
           | picturesque at all. But you can't throw off these memes, it's
           | culture, even if it makes no sense.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | Things like the Southbank Centre kind of work and are popular.
         | Just rather ugly. At least being on the river you can face the
         | other way and look at that.
         | https://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/magazine/concrete-dreams-c...
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | You assume that everyone thinks that's ugly. These buildings
         | with their wet planet blemishes look just fine to me.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | The Tadao Ando designed museum listed is a work of art itself. If
       | you can, it's worth seeking out buildings he has designed.
       | Especially make it a point to go to check out the Chichu Art
       | Museum in Naoshima, Japan. It's off the beaten path, but a day
       | trip to Naoshima is very rewarding.
        
       | veidr wrote:
       | These buildings are all _sick as hell_ except maybe that first
       | one. Also, might be divisive amongst the white HOA enthusiasts of
       | US  & A, but I live in Tokyo and I am pretty sure that this style
       | of architecture is widely appreciated here (and in Japan,
       | generally). I know several people whose own homes that try to
       | rock this raw concrete block style, although a regular person's
       | home can't typically get too wild -- maybe a stack of 3 concrete
       | boxes, on tilt just a little bit if they're lucky.
       | 
       | Those houses are dope, though -- wish I had one instead of my
       | boring-but-nice apartment.
       | 
       | Every time I ride my bike to work, I have the good fortune to
       | pass right by the Supreme Court building; check out this savage
       | brute:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Japan#/media/...
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | This is a toy version of the Giedi Prime's architecture from
       | Dune: colorless oppressive-scale buildings that try to instill
       | fear.
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | It looks pretty in pictures but I don't know how enjoyable I'd
       | find it if some of these were part of my daily life.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-16 23:02 UTC)