[HN Gopher] A study on how turtles navigate using the Earth's ma...
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       A study on how turtles navigate using the Earth's magnetic field
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2025-02-14 18:29 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.unc.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.unc.edu)
        
       | actinium226 wrote:
       | At first I thought this was a mnemonic and then I quickly
       | realized that DTUSD is probably not something people try to
       | remember
        
       | crazydoggers wrote:
       | I wonder if it's actually a form of touch sensation. Some parts
       | of the body might be minutely susceptible to magnetic fields and
       | the feeling is distributed across areas of the turtle. The human
       | finger can sense things only a micron in size.
       | 
       | Something like miniscule tugging of the shell in certain
       | directions being felt?
        
         | adrian_b wrote:
         | In some living beings it is known that they sense the magnetic
         | field with microscopic magnetite crystals (i.e. iron oxide,
         | Fe3O4), that are inside some cells.
         | 
         | The magnetic field is sensed by the magnetic forces that act on
         | the magnetite crystals, much in the same way as we sense
         | gravity and acceleration by the forces that act on the otoliths
         | in our inner ear.
         | 
         | While in turtles it has not been identified how they sense the
         | magnetic field, one of the possibilities is that they also use
         | magnetite crystals located somewhere, at least for one of the
         | two kinds of magnetic senses identified in them.
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | Very cool. So they have a map sense, and a compass sense, and we
       | don't know how either of them work still.
        
         | stevenwoo wrote:
         | There are tracking studies on some of the turtles that navigate
         | from Gulf of Mexico to Atlantic and back that appear to know
         | where the favorable currents are so there is alot of genetic
         | memory like the Monarch butterfly migrations taking multiple
         | generations to get from North America to Mexico.
        
       | shellfishgene wrote:
       | Is there really not a single link to the actual paper in the
       | press release or did I just miss it?
        
         | ysofunny wrote:
         | there's only a link to the lab (that I was able to find)
         | https://lohmannlab.web.unc.edu/
        
         | throwaway1 wrote:
         | Goforth, K. M., Lohmann, C. M. F., Gavin, A., Henning, R.,
         | Harvey, A., Hinton, T. L., Lim, D. S., and Lohmann, K. J.
         | 
         | Learned magnetic map cues and two mechanisms of
         | magnetoreception in turtles. Nature (2025).
         | 
         | https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-08554-y
         | 
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08554-y
         | 
         | Full text: https://rdcu.be/d9CgI (shortened link as provided on
         | the page below)
         | 
         | ( Provided by the lab's 'Publications' page:
         | https://lohmannlab.web.unc.edu/research-publications/ )
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | Turtles are my favorite animals (other than humans, and sometimes
       | even more than them).
       | 
       | Mostly I think they're just cute, which is by itself a perfectly
       | valid reason for an animal to be your favorite, but I've always
       | been fascinated by their ruggedness. It's not weird for a turtle
       | to live to 100 years old, and it feels like they can survive just
       | about anything.
       | 
       | Having a built-in GPS just makes them even cooler.
        
         | pak9rabid wrote:
         | I like turtles
        
           | treebeard901 wrote:
           | It's turtles all the way down
        
             | carrozo wrote:
             | oh. more turtles.
        
         | joshuaturner wrote:
         | I just find their karate abilities quite remarkable
        
       | Biologist123 wrote:
       | My old man - an old-fashioned cat by anyone's description -- can
       | pick true north anytime, anywhere. It's made me wonder if he has
       | some kind of internal magnetic compass. And now, having read
       | this, I wonder if this 'turtle skill' is latent in humans but
       | only emerges in a rare few.
        
         | pinoy420 wrote:
         | Can he notice when it shifts? What happens when the magnetic
         | field flips?
        
         | swores wrote:
         | You maybe meant "magnetic north", not "true north"?
         | 
         | Or if you meant what you wrote, then fairly safe to rule out
         | magnetism from being involved! (I suspect it's not involved
         | either way, but I don't know anything)
         | 
         | (Explanation of the difference between true and magnetic
         | norths: https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/true-north-
         | magnetic-nor... )
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | I can sense magnetic fields of some strength through my nasal
         | bone. Its like a metallic taste except its not where your taste
         | buds are.
         | 
         | I don't know if its rare? I think most people just never held a
         | magnet against their face.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | People get exposed to extremely strong magic fields when
           | getting an MRI. So that's probably not it.
        
             | daveguy wrote:
             | On the surface this looks like a non-sequitur. I'm not sure
             | what people getting exposed to strong magnetic fields while
             | getting an MRI has to do with detecting a magnetic field.
             | Are you saying something like "we should have been able to
             | detect this"? This doesn't seem correct to me, because the
             | magnetic field is through the aperture of the MRI -- ie
             | head to toe in most MRI applications. If the MRI field is
             | orthogonal to earth's typical magnetic pole, you wouldn't
             | expect the same signal. I'm skeptical of a claim from a
             | person that they can "detect" the earth's magnetic field,
             | but I don't think "we have MRIs" implies anything about
             | that ability.
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | They're responding to this part
               | 
               | > I don't know if its rare? I think most people just
               | never held a magnet against their face.
               | 
               | If it were not rare, and simply because most people
               | haven't held a magnet against their nose, people would
               | definitely feel it during an MRI scan, since those are
               | much much much stronger than any regular magnet. An MRI
               | will rip a nose piercing right out of you, a regular
               | magnet you'd have around the home couldn't do that.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | "I think most people just never held a magnet against
               | their face."
               | 
               | I don't think they comprehend just how strong an MRI is.
               | You don't need to be inside the machine for it to be the
               | strongest magnetic field you've experienced, that's
               | likely true if you're in the room nearby. Sure it falls
               | as the square of the distance, but those suckers are big.
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLjxhuybFWo
               | 
               | For comparison earths magnetic field is ~50 microtesla vs
               | an MRI at 200,000 to 7,000,000, with 1.5 million
               | microtesla (aka 1.5 T or 15,000 gauss) being common.
        
               | blueflow wrote:
               | Most people haven't been in an MRI, either. I only know
               | about their existence from TV.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | That doesn't really matter here. ~300k people in the US
               | get an MRI per year (significantly more are near the
               | things) and they have been around since the 1970's.
               | 
               | If simply waving weak magnetic fields in people's faces
               | were enough for anything close to 1% of people to notice
               | then it would be common knowledge at this point.
               | 
               | When the signal is strong enough you don't need careful
               | experiments to pick out the difference. IE the rest of
               | the universe outside of earth isn't made of antimatter
               | because our telescope's aren't on fire. https://what-
               | if.xkcd.com/114/
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Let me break it down for you.
               | 
               | In electromagnetic fields both an electric field and a
               | magnetic field are produced. They are orthogonal to one
               | another (in 2D with 2 vectors this is perpendicular,
               | orthogonal is when the vector is in a different dimension
               | with respect to multiple reference dimensions). So,
               | detection of a magnetic field could be based on the
               | detection of this orthogonal electric field in the
               | presence of a magnetic field. Highly sensitive electrical
               | detection cells triggered by a magnetic field would be
               | orientation specific, because the more "out of
               | orientation" the less strong the signal.
               | 
               | Also, we could easily have chalked this effect up to a
               | "weird side effect" of metallic taste during MRI[0] which
               | would be more pronounced when the head is moved during
               | the MRI[1].
               | 
               | Hopefully it is clear now why "I think lots of people
               | would have noticed it" is not a great argument against
               | the possibility of humans evolving the detection of
               | magnetic fields. Please let me know if I can clarify
               | anything.
               | 
               | [0] https://mriquestions.com/metallic-taste.html
               | 
               | [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17969179/
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Sure, you can clarify why you think someone walking up to
               | and then getting inside an MRI would only experience a
               | specific orientation?
               | 
               | It's obviously false, but I'm curious why you assume it
               | would be the case.
               | 
               | As to your example, that's _well known_ even with only 1
               | in 20 people experiencing it, thus demonstrating my
               | point.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Apparently you have not had an MRI or studied MRI.
               | 
               | 1) The people operating the MRI are outside the magnetic
               | field.
               | 
               | 2) The patient in the MRI is oriented such that the
               | magnetic field is directed from head to toe (where the
               | effect on sensing apparatus in place which might detect
               | earth's magnetic field while standing or sitting would be
               | approximately zero, _no matter the magnetic strength_ ).
               | 
               | 3) Instructions for the patient in the MRI are to remain
               | as still as possible to reduce imaging noise. So, most
               | patients do not move their head much at all.
               | 
               | I'm sorry you seem to be unwilling to even consider the
               | physics, and apparently didn't bother to look at the
               | second reference. I am also sorry that I am having
               | trouble explaining concepts that most biomedical
               | engineers readily understand as the reasons why "but
               | MRI!" is not a valid argument. Regardless, I hope you
               | have a wonderful weekend.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | > The people operating the MRI are outside the magnetic
               | field.
               | 
               | That's not how magnetic fields work. It's not some sci-fi
               | force field that cuts off instantly, the field drops off
               | quickly but it doesn't disappear. Which is why as
               | mentioned in your second link _workers noticed the
               | effect_.
               | 
               | > unwilling to even consider the physics
               | 
               | Again, you're seemingly unaware of the actual physics
               | involved.
               | 
               | MRI's operate via two different electromagnets which
               | create magnetic fields. A really strong one which is on
               | 24/7, and a separate field which is turned off and on in
               | operation and thus doesn't correlate with earths magnetic
               | field.
               | 
               | So when you walk up to the machine you're "in" the same
               | giant field just as when you're inside the machine (or
               | even sitting in some other room in the hospital if we
               | want to be pedantic). This is why it's relatively common
               | for chairs etc to be yanked across the room and smack
               | into the machines.
               | 
               | And thus, if people could directly sense the orientation
               | of earths magnetic field, being anywhere near an MRI
               | would be a really obvious and novel experience.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Oh good, they noticed the effect too. It's almost as if
               | many people experience the effect, but somehow to you
               | it's impossible for any humans to be able to take
               | advantage of the effect at lower field strengths.
               | 
               | When you walk up to the machine it's not turned on. Then
               | non-participants go to the small enclosed control room
               | and then the magnet is activated. Every time you respond
               | you reveal how little you know about MRI and weaken your
               | case. You should stop while you are behind.
               | 
               | Also, you should lookup faraday cage. They're like magic
               | to someone who has never heard of them, and they're used
               | in MRI control rooms.
               | 
               | I feel sorry for your apparent inability to accept you
               | might be ignorant about anything. I hope you grow out of
               | it one day. Enjoy your weekend, I won't be responding
               | again.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | > When you walk up to the machine it's not turned on.
               | 
               | False. MRI: https://mriquestions.com/is-field-ever-
               | turned-off.html
               | 
               |  _Permanent magnet scanners are permanently "on" by
               | definition.
               | 
               | Resistive electromagnet scanners, in theory, can be
               | turned on and off. However, it may take 30-60 minutes for
               | their magnetic fields to stabilize after being off and
               | hence they are generally left continuously on during
               | daily operations. To save electricity, they are usually
               | turned off or have their power levels reduced after
               | hours.
               | 
               | Superconducting scanners remain on at all times as long
               | as superconducting temperatures are maintained. The main
               | field may be ramped down for servicing in a controlled
               | manner with minimal loss of cryogens in about 30 minutes
               | and restored in a few hours, but this is performed only
               | occasionally. In the event of an emergency, all
               | superconducting scanners have a "quench" button that
               | releases liquid helium into the atmosphere and turns
               | their fields off within a few seconds._ Dumping that
               | helium is inherently expensive and only done in a serious
               | emergency.
               | 
               | "Faraday cages cannot block stable or slowly varying
               | magnetic fields, such as the Earth's magnetic field (a
               | compass will still work inside one)."
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
               | 
               | > then the magnet is activated
               | 
               |  _A_ magnet not _THE_ primary one. Here's a reasonable
               | though simplified explanation of why there's multiple
               | magnets involved:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlYXqRG7lus
               | 
               | Anyway, it's clear you have many fundamental
               | misunderstandings so I can see how you'd come to such
               | wildly inaccurate conclusions.
               | 
               | > it's impossible for any humans to be able to take
               | advantage of the effect at lower field strengths.
               | 
               | The actual literature investigating the effect describes
               | why it doesn't work on earths magnetic field.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Someone who does not know that MRI has variable field
               | strength is someone who truly does not know the basics of
               | MRI.
               | 
               | Maybe this source will clue you in as to why your
               | understanding of MRI is fundamentally flawed:
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4632105/
               | 
               | Good luck buddy.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | I'm aware, which is why I've said repeatedly there's
               | multiple magnets involved one vastly weaker than the
               | other which is kept on...
               | 
               | But wallow in your ignorance, it brings a little dark joy
               | knowing _I am simply better than you in a real tangible
               | way._
               | 
               | You're unable to erase signs of your failure, and as long
               | as HN lasts anyone can know my dominance.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | Hahaha. Thank you for the laugh. It must be great walking
               | around with such an unwavering sense of superiority.
               | Enjoy the dark joy of your perceived vast superiority and
               | try not to have a breakdown when you come crashing back
               | to reality. May you never crash and forever be certain in
               | your vast delusions of superiority all the rest of your
               | days. Very rarely have I seen a more foolish certainty.
               | Congratulations.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | You could join on the dark side.
               | 
               | All it takes is learning how the fundamental forces of
               | the universe work.
               | 
               | Ok, in this context having a friend who works in medical
               | imaging was useful, but that's just a trivial matter.
        
           | 725686 wrote:
           | You should probably approach some of the people investigating
           | this.
        
           | GrumpyNl wrote:
           | Sounds more like you can taste static electricity.
        
         | hnuser123456 wrote:
         | I can do that, it's just having a mental image of the room and
         | building I'm in, as well as the surrounding landscape, sky, and
         | where the sun rises and sets. Even if I have to pass through a
         | bunch of twisting corridors, there's just a mental arrow in my
         | head that's always being updated in the background when I turn.
        
           | colonCapitalDee wrote:
           | Is that something that you learned how to do? Any suggestions
           | for picking up this skill?
        
             | deepsun wrote:
             | Try playing First person shooter games that don't have a
             | map. But as I said in a sibling comment, it's just
             | orientation using memory, not a compass.
        
             | vlovich123 wrote:
             | When I was a kid at some point I just realized I could
             | close my eyes and try to visualize my room that I knew
             | really well. And then I'd imagine what it would look like
             | if I looked at it making a 90 degree right turn. Then
             | visualizing what happens if I walked out of the room, then
             | up the stairs, etc. And then trying to make sure that as
             | I'm doing these turns around corners in my house,
             | connecting it with if I'm facing north/east/south/west
             | until it became second nature to know that. And then as I
             | got older I connected it implicitly with other senses of my
             | surroundings (e.g. time of day + location of sun = you know
             | which direction).
             | 
             | I'd just sit for like 5-10 minutes at a time every day
             | doing that until I got "bored" by the skill. Not
             | necessarily sure if it's something you can practice as I
             | know there's actual brain structural differences that can
             | determine whether you have this skill and how advanced it
             | is, and I'd imagine it's potentially harder to rewire your
             | brain for this as an adult.
        
             | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
             | I found "Natural Navigator" by Tristan Gooley to be a
             | fascinating read with a lot of good ways to train your
             | navigation skills without instruments.
        
           | deepsun wrote:
           | No, that's just orientation, I can do that too. Playing
           | first-person games like Descent improves the orientation.
           | 
           | The true compass would be if you could be blinded, walked
           | through some turns, and you could still pick up north, having
           | no idea about how you got into the surroundings.
        
             | boringg wrote:
             | Yeah but you can always pick up based on observational
             | cues.
             | 
             | Real test would be spin around in a dark room without any
             | cues can you pick out true north.
        
               | jagged-chisel wrote:
               | I think you just said the exact same thing.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | I think its different - you're keeping track of something,
           | whereas some creatures can evidently just feel the earths
           | magnetic field.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | That's just spatial awareness. Put a giant magnet by his head.
         | He'll still be able to do it.
        
           | kuhewa wrote:
           | Have you ever done any of these controlled experiments with
           | giant helmets or blindfolds and elaborate movements to defeat
           | orientation though?
        
           | Biologist123 wrote:
           | I can just imagine the experimental set-up..."son, what the
           | f** are you doing". "Chill out dad, I'm just going to blind
           | fold you and run some electricity through this coil, and you
           | have to tell me where New Bedford is, got it". "I told you
           | you ain't getting no inheritance". Etc
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | Lots of people have a good "sense of direction" in terms of an
         | awareness of their surroundings that _keeps track_ of cardinal
         | directions. It also correlates with an ability to use other
         | indicators to reinforce or reacquire this awareness.
         | 
         | Put me on some winding singletrack in the woods, or driving
         | around an unfamiliar part of town, and I'll remember an
         | imaginary map of where I've been and which directions I've
         | turned, and be able to tell you where north is all day. If I
         | forget, there are context clues everywhere - it's late
         | afternoon here in Michigan so the sun is setting in the
         | southern sky, pointing south-southwest. I'm currently in a
         | windowless manufacturing facility, but I know where the front
         | door is and I remember that's on the west side of the building,
         | so I'm facing east. It helps a lot that many roads and
         | buildings are indexed to be precisely aligned with the compass.
         | It also helps that my Garmin GPS watch has a built-in compass,
         | so if I ever need to shoot a bearing precisely, I train and
         | recalibrate this sense of direction.
         | 
         | But if you put a blindfold on me, sit me down on an office
         | chair, spin it around for a couple minutes as you wheel me down
         | the hall and into an unfamiliar room...after I have finished
         | retching, I hypothesize that I'd have no sensation to tell me
         | where north is.
         | 
         | I appreciate the author's study design here - the source PDF
         | [1] and linked website [2] describe feeding the turtles in the
         | same pool, but exposing them to varied magnetic fields by
         | surrounding the pool in a giant Helmholtz coil. It's not as if
         | they flew the turtles alternately to New Hampshire and to the
         | Gulf of Mexico, which might leave lots of context clues in
         | light or smell or taste, but as if they effectively teleported
         | them to an identical pool of water with slightly different
         | magnetic fields.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08554-y.epdf?shar...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://oceanweb.sites.oasis.unc.edu/www.unc.edu/depts/ocean...
        
         | climb_stealth wrote:
         | Hah, I thought you meant a literal cat.
         | 
         | Our dogs do that. There's a building we used to go up with six
         | elevators. Three on each side of the hallway facing each other.
         | Without hesitation the dogs will pick the correct direction to
         | go coming out of the elevator. Whereas I always had to check
         | because it all looks the same and depending on which side the
         | elevator is on you have to turn left or right.
         | 
         | It's like they have an innate sense of where they are.
        
           | ryanianian wrote:
           | Could there be a different smell or air-flow coming from one
           | side versus the others?
           | 
           | My apartment building has identical elevator lobbies. I
           | thought my dog was smart by not leaving the elevator on
           | seemingly identical incorrect floors. But actually I think
           | she just knows what home smells like.
        
             | climb_stealth wrote:
             | Not sure, but I wouldn't think so. They'd basically spring
             | out of the elevator with no hesitation.
        
         | AngryData wrote:
         | Atleast when I was younger I always felt like I could point
         | towards north within 20-30 degrees at any time. I tried testing
         | it out many times, and was right the vast majority of the time,
         | even when trying to eliminate possible subconscious factors
         | like sound reflections and what surface I was standing on. We
         | do technically have the right associated nerves and structure
         | for it, but obviously underdeveloped compared to animals who
         | use it to live and survive, so I would totally believe it is
         | possible to some extent, atleast among some people.
         | 
         | I would attribute part of it to practice, because when I was
         | younger I spent a lot of times in the woods where you can
         | easily get turned around following animal trails and skirting
         | around obstacles, and finding your way back out accurately was
         | extremely helpful.
        
         | kaushikt wrote:
         | Same with my old man. He is a farmer in southern India. All the
         | farms nearby are super identical with tall beetlenut trees. Im
         | often confused where we are and which direction is the house,
         | he is not. He has set over a 100 water gates across the farms
         | and the instructions he gives is always east face or turn the
         | gate north facing as an example.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | The aboriginal language Guugu Yimithirr,
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guugu_Yimithirr_language, uses
         | cardinal directions instead of relative, e.g. "That man is to
         | the west of her" instead of "That man is to the left of her",
         | which of course means that speakers need to be aware of the
         | direction they are facing at all times, and thus these people
         | have a remarkable sense of direction.
         | 
         | Can't remember where I first heard about this, I think it may
         | have been a Malcolm Gladwell book, but in any case if you
         | search you can find lots of articles on the topic.
        
         | burnished wrote:
         | Foxes can, and a brief search suggests cats may also?
        
       | pinoy420 wrote:
       | It explains the phenomena and the response but not the mechanism.
       | Anyone know?
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | >But no receptor like that has been identified for the magnetic
       | sense, and the mechanism remains unknown
       | 
       | Wasn't such a molecule found in bird's eyes?
        
         | defanor wrote:
         | It is one of the proposed mechanisms, but apparently it is
         | still unclear what is actually used [1,2].
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoreception#Proposed_mech...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-
         | bir...
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | So if the poles flip- there navigation fails?
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | I wonder if bats have the same senses to magnetic field.
        
       | rapind wrote:
       | More proof we're just flying around on the back of a turtle on
       | the back of a turtle...
        
       | acyou wrote:
       | When they first figured out that turtles use magnetic fields to
       | navigate, they placed them in kiddie swimming pools in someone's
       | backyard and placed large electromagnets next to the swimming
       | pools. Multiple turtles reliably oriented themselves according to
       | the magnetic field direction corresponding with their seasonal
       | migration direction.
       | 
       | This paper is claiming something different, something to do with
       | a particular magnetic field having a behavioral association.
       | 
       | Lot of question marks and need for some more context. Why would
       | turtles evolve the dancing behavior? Does it have to do with the
       | kind of food they eat and how they get that food? No, turtles did
       | not evolve like dogs to dance and do tricks for food.
        
         | gwerbret wrote:
         | > Multiple turtles reliably oriented themselves according to
         | the magnetic field direction corresponding with their seasonal
         | migration direction. This paper is claiming something
         | different, something to do with a particular magnetic field
         | having a behavioral association.
         | 
         | The paper (which is here [0] by the way, they failed to provide
         | a link in the article) indicates that these turtles have been
         | known to orient themselves using magnetic fields. The new
         | finding is that they're also able to use magnetic fields as a
         | map -- they can identify a location based on its specific
         | magnetic fields. And apparently, the "mapping" involves a
         | different neurobiological mechanism from the "orientation".
         | 
         | 0: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08554-y
        
       | wkyleg wrote:
       | Interesting that they don't know exactly how they are perceiving
       | magnetism. I suppose it could be an internal brain mechanism, but
       | if that were to be able to operate without direct outside sensory
       | input, there might be all kinds of other potential latent
       | abilities in animals.
       | 
       | More likely, this might be the same as the mechanism which exists
       | in birds, who can effectively see the Earth's magnetic field in
       | their eyes, although an internal magnetic detection system
       | present in animals would be much more interesting. See
       | https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2019.029....
       | Birds essentially perceive the Earth's magnetic field through a
       | chemical process in the receptors for red and green light in
       | their eyes, and are believed to have special cells in their beak,
       | brain stem, and possibly their vestibular system as well. It can
       | be disrupted fairly easy by magnetism or different wavelengths of
       | light.
       | 
       | There are obvious other strange implications of this as well,
       | although I'm not sure how much real evidence there is to support
       | them. For instance, there are many concerns about the effects of
       | EMF exposure, as well as that EMF can affect plant life. There is
       | research on magnetic and electric brain stimulation as well. At
       | the most out-there level, there is the research into remote
       | viewing and things like telepathy. So, to whatever extent this
       | actually exists, there are interesting implications for the
       | phenomenological experience of other forms of animal life.
       | 
       | Regardless, it is interesting to see research that is actually
       | showing new and intriguing things regarding different forms of
       | perception (I guess this is arguably ESP, or at least a new
       | sense) that are not complete crank nonsense. I've always felt
       | like my sense of direction was a sort of 6th sense; I guess it
       | really could be.
        
       | samldev wrote:
       | Go Heels!
        
       | dahart wrote:
       | > "The big question is always the mechanism," Goforth said.
       | "What's the mechanism and what is the sensor? We know that for
       | the visual sense, you have eyes; for the sense of smell, you have
       | a nose; and for hearing, you have ears. But no receptor like that
       | has been identified for the magnetic sense, and the mechanism
       | remains unknown."
       | 
       | Interesting, I just barely listened to a Radiolab episode about
       | magnetoreception in birds today [1]. The mechanism is thought to
       | be cryptochrome, a type of protein that exhibits quantum effects
       | when exposed to blue light [2]. The RadioLab story mentioned this
       | mechanism was first proposed in the 70s (I think?) and it was
       | heresy at the time a didn't get published. Now there's a SciAm
       | article about it [3], and lots of blog posts. I wonder why this
       | isn't mentioned? Isn't there a pretty good chance the mechanism
       | is the same?
       | 
       | * edit: BTW while listening to the podcast I was reminded of
       | Haidinger's Brush [4] - the fact that many humans can see
       | polarization, once they know what to look for. I wonder if it's
       | potentially related to navigation since the polarization effect
       | is strongest at 90 degrees from the sun... i.e., generally north
       | and south, in the morning and evening, for much of the earth.
       | 
       | [1] https://radiolab.org/podcast/quantum-birds
       | 
       | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptochrome#Magnetoreception
       | 
       | [3] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-
       | bir...
       | 
       | [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidinger's_brush
        
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