[HN Gopher] The NBA Apple Vision Pro app now has a 3D tabletop view
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       The NBA Apple Vision Pro app now has a 3D tabletop view
        
       Author : matheussampaio
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2025-02-14 18:58 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.uploadvr.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.uploadvr.com)
        
       | wetpaws wrote:
       | Nobody cares
        
         | mouse_ wrote:
         | Got your attention tho
        
       | whywhywhywhy wrote:
       | Think I laughed out loud when they showed the table top NBA in
       | the launch video because the exact same concept was in the launch
       | videos for at least oculus and magic leap, maybe more headsets
       | but it's always been a fake concept that feels a bit like a
       | solution in search of a problem.
       | 
       | Fair play to them finally making the eternal vaporware demo real.
       | 
       | Fascinating seeing how an Apple launch plays out when the 3rd
       | party dev support just isn't there and nor are the users.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | It feels to me like it's one step closer to having an
         | arbitrarily positioned "courtside seat" view.
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | I get court side view if it's 3d footage it would be
           | immersive. It's the tiny players running around the coffee
           | table that's technically impressive but conceptually baffling
           | why you'd want that.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | I think the missing context from the post (as it calls out)
             | is that the intended experience is that you have the
             | diorama view at the same time as the actual footage, so
             | it's showing you where everyone is offscreen.
        
               | bitmasher9 wrote:
               | Yeah, it seems awesome to be able to track the entire
               | game at once instead of just focusing on what's in camera
               | frame. The combination of both could be very engaging.
        
           | harmmonica wrote:
           | Anyone able to explain the technical reason this doesn't
           | exist yet? Maybe technically feasible but NBA thinks it would
           | cannibalize tickets sales?
           | 
           | If it did (does?) exist it would be nice if it could be "all"
           | courtside views (pick the one you want or switch between them
           | as you're watching). And when I say all it doesn't have to be
           | literally every seat, but there could be one at each baseline
           | and then maybe one each side of the scorer's table and then 2
           | opposite those so 6 in total.
        
             | asadotzler wrote:
             | Yes, because no one is going to spend the money to add
             | another 30-60 cameras to the NBA broadcast platform to
             | cater to fewer than 100K Vision Pro users. Even Quest's 10M
             | actives doesn't come close to warranting that kind of
             | financial outlay.
        
               | harmmonica wrote:
               | Ok, it's totally technically feasible today, but the
               | return is not there given the lack of viewership. If you
               | can expand a little on the 30-60 cameras so I can
               | understand better, is that to stitch together the various
               | views when a AVP user moves their head? Or were you using
               | that number to represent the number of viewpoints on the
               | floor? Like if it was only one view at the scorer's
               | table, do I understand you would need multiple cameras
               | for one view?
        
           | ninju wrote:
           | You can currently remote viewing sporting events
           | 
           | https://tech.cosm.com/markets/sports-and-entertainment
        
         | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
         | I am struggling to come up with some mainstream uses for this.
         | Sports, concerts, plays, etc are something that could
         | theoretically be used on a recurring basis to entice the
         | public.
         | 
         | My only nerd imaginations are something like a WH40k game.
         | Watch a MOBA in 3D. Fortnite.
         | 
         | Maybe a few historical events? This was the moon landing
         | configuration. The view from the grassy knoll to Kennedy.
        
           | lbourdages wrote:
           | I would love this when playing DnD. You could even have the
           | app recognize dice and compute modifiers for attack rolls and
           | what not.
        
             | ortusdux wrote:
             | DnD with the option to switch between 3rd and 1st person
             | views would be amazing.
             | 
             | Personally, I'd like an NFL game where you drop your
             | players on the line, draw the routes on the field, and then
             | switch to 1st person QB view for the snap.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | https://www.meta.com/experiences/nfl-pro-
               | era/419397521067812...
               | 
               | NFL Pro Era for MQ3 sent chills up my spine when I first
               | walked out into the arena.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | Demeo (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1484280/Demeo/)
             | is the pure board game implementation of that concept, with
             | a lot of effort put into actually taking advantage of the
             | VR aspect without siloing players off from each other.
        
           | skyyler wrote:
           | >My only nerd imaginations are something like a WH40k game
           | 
           | Okay, actually, wargaming in VR would be sick if executed
           | well...
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | Try Demeo Battles!
        
           | seanalltogether wrote:
           | My wife would absolutely pay money to go to an auditorium
           | with 100 other people to watch a live taylor swift concert.
           | Even though its technically feasible to do it in your home,
           | or even to watch it the next day, I know she would pay to be
           | part of a "live" experience.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | They have that now in movie theaters that simulcast stage
             | performances.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | Sure, but there's a huge visceral difference between
               | looking at a screen versus "being there" in what your
               | brain interprets as, for example, a small black-box
               | theater with a stage in the middle.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | Yeah but a movie costs $10-20 retail and costs much less
               | to deliver technologically speaking.
               | 
               | All that fancy "you're really there" technology costs a
               | lot more with diminishing returns on the running costs.
        
               | bikezen wrote:
               | Theres places like https://www.cosm.com/the-experience
               | that have a spherical view and seating right up close
               | that do live sports and concerts that are more engaging
               | than a normal flat screen.
        
           | willturman wrote:
           | > I am struggling to come up with some mainstream uses for
           | this.
           | 
           | Grilling with Mark Zuckerberg?
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibm3WhfLk08
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | DoD is soon getting its Enemy of the State wish fulfilled
           | with pervasive targeted imaging from VLEO. Projecting that
           | realtime imagery in 3D would be icing on the cake.
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | DoD won't do it with any of these consumer headsets,
             | though, because you can't get anything wireless approved
             | for use in a SCIF. And no, they won't even consider doing
             | anything outside of the SCIF.
             | 
             | VR/AR for DoD is a dead end, unless you have a deep
             | personal relationship with some random Air Force Colonel
             | who is willing to personally walk all your work through all
             | the paperwork on the promise of a board seat when he
             | retires.
             | 
             | -signed, former DoD-targeted VR consultant
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Improbable tried baseball.[1] They have some kind of deal
           | with the Major League Baseball company. Improbable's
           | metaverse is so expensive to operate that they can't run it
           | 24/7, so they only rent servers for pay per view special
           | events.
           | 
           | American football would make more sense as something to view
           | in VR. The action is complicated to follow.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.improbable.io/news/improbable-builds-major-
           | leagu...
        
           | joezydeco wrote:
           | I'd be interested in using it for auto racing. Usually the
           | tracks are too large to see all at once, the cars are going
           | by too fast to track, and in most cases both apply.
           | Especially if you could zoom in on areas of interest as they
           | happen.
        
             | oakesm9 wrote:
             | Lapz is basically that for F1 races on the Vision Pro
             | https://youtu.be/Z9OlYcfLmTY?si=k0bFAeMFl0bHEVx3
        
               | Jare wrote:
               | According to the article, _was_.
        
         | cco wrote:
         | One of the actual compelling experiences for me on the Oculus
         | Go back in the day was court side NBA games.
         | 
         | I think they did eventually offer VR live games with a few
         | different viewing options.
         | 
         | It's a really nice way to watch a game. Tabletop? Meh, but the
         | ability to control the "camera" with your head, 3d audio of the
         | live stadium etc, that was dope.
        
         | philwelch wrote:
         | There was an old Oculus app where you could watch NBA games in
         | VR, except it was from the perspective of 3D camera rigs that
         | were set up above the backboards. The company behind this app,
         | NextVR, was acquired by Apple in 2020. (Meta has subsequently
         | made different arrangements for broadcasting NBA games in VR.)
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | cool gimmick
        
       | cma wrote:
       | I feel like table top stuff isn't a good fit with the heavy
       | weight of the apple headset when you have to tilt your head down,
       | party from the fairly low vertical field of view.
        
         | tjohns wrote:
         | This seems to be very subjective. I can wear the Apple Vision
         | Pro headset for hours without it feeling uncomfortably heavy.
         | 
         | I'm not sure if that's because I just happen to have a good
         | light seal fit, or if it's because I spend a lot of time in VR
         | on other platforms and am more used to it?
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | Depends also on how you sit.
           | 
           | If you've got straight posture sitting in an office chair the
           | weight of the headset is not cantilevered.
           | 
           | If it is the end of the day and you want to splay out on the
           | couch and watch TV or play games it's a different thing
           | entirely.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | It is not relaxing to wear any VR headset compared to watching
         | TV. I use a web-based image viewer on my MQ3 in lean-back mode
         | but the extended battery and UI are awkward for this.
         | 
         | For high energy experiences like games and fitness apps the
         | weight is less of a problem, but Apple chose to ignore those
         | established applications for passive entertainment where you
         | don't want to work your micro muscles.
        
         | asadotzler wrote:
         | Of course you are right. Craning your neck to swing your head
         | back and forth following the action with 1.5 pounds of goggles
         | cantilevered off your face, for the full game or even parts of
         | it, is going to be very challenging.
        
         | pazimzadeh wrote:
         | Wish it had a hook so that you could tie some helium balloons
         | to it. Or springy cable from the ceiling.
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | This seems like a bad product. Wouldn't court side, full size be
       | much better?
        
         | itishappy wrote:
         | Of course the real thing is better, but is that really an
         | argument against broadcasts?
        
           | graypegg wrote:
           | I think they're talking about a VR POV that's courtside more
           | like a normal VR experience, rather than this perspective
           | "above" the stadium
        
             | itishappy wrote:
             | Oh. Fair concern, but it does that too.
             | 
             | > Tabletop shows in addition to the 2D livestream view you
             | see floating in front of you as a large virtual screen,
             | giving you the benefits of both.
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | who not both?
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | I got a free trial of an NBA app for the MQ3 which had a
         | courtside view. It didn't work on my 20Mbps ADSL so I stayed
         | late at the office one night to try it out. It was kinda cool
         | but I`d say third to kicking back and watching on TV at home or
         | at a bar with brew and bros which is second to $6 tickets to
         | sit courtside if you wish at college games in person.
        
       | mentos wrote:
       | Wonder if you can scale the model up to fill a gymnasium? hah
        
       | mathfailure wrote:
       | How to link (or even just obtain) the gif/video from that page?
       | 
       | It is not showing up on the 'Network' tab in Chromium's Developer
       | tools.
        
         | finnless wrote:
         | https://www.uploadvr.com/content/media/2025/02/NBA-Apple-Vis...
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Good for a tech demo and good for making headlines, but exactly
       | zero people are actually going to watch a game like this for more
       | than 30 seconds. At minimum the players need to be "real", not
       | cartoon stick figures.
       | 
       | The bigger problem of course is that with local/regional
       | blackouts, nationally televised games and other broadcast
       | restrictions there aren't very many games worth watching on NBA's
       | own app for League Pass subscribers. And judging by how massive a
       | media rights contract they just signed with TV networks, the
       | status quo isn't going to change anytime soon.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I don't envy whoever has to wrangle all the random licensing
         | contracts major sports networks have. My partner is big into
         | fantasy and she's got players on all sorts of random teams and
         | wanted to watch the game so I looked into it.
         | 
         | Me: Can I pay _someone_ , presumably you, any price to watch
         | any NFL game I want?
         | 
         | NFL: no.
        
       | wkirby wrote:
       | I don't enjoy basketball and I think the Vision Pro is a crazy
       | stupid product --- but this does look cool as hell.
       | 
       | Let me know when they make it work with a real sport.
        
         | ugh123 wrote:
         | What's a real sport?
        
           | wkirby wrote:
           | Pod racing.
        
       | medlazik wrote:
       | Humanity is doomed. Only some _actual_ communist central planning
       | could forbid this and the other thousands of  "innovations" in
       | order to drastically reduce resource consumption and maybe, just
       | maybe make earth kinda livable in the next 50 years. Otherwise
       | we're just doomed and if not us, the younger generation
       | assuredly.
        
         | graypegg wrote:
         | Honestly want to understand your viewpoint here, is your
         | corcern the resource consumption used in producing VR headsets,
         | this NBA application, or something more general like all
         | computing?
        
           | medlazik wrote:
           | Absolutely everything related to this article except the
           | sport itself. _All_ innovation from now on should go through
           | a committee of scientists and randomly selected individuals
           | to avoid such fucking stupid  ""innovations"" to ever exist.
        
             | graypegg wrote:
             | I thought it seemed neat. If I was part of your randomly
             | selected individuals, I would give it the green light.
             | 
             | I think the core element of human creativity might be lost
             | in your imagined system of governance.
        
               | medlazik wrote:
               | _" Earth is burning and 99% of humanity is suffering but
               | at least for a century we were oh so creative"_ You in
               | 2062, most probably
        
               | graypegg wrote:
               | Is it more to do with resources misallocated from
               | something to prevent human suffering, to something
               | comparably suffering-neutral? (a VR headset with an NBA
               | app on it)
               | 
               | While I can empathize with that, I don't think those
               | resources would be reused in solving world hunger,
               | poverty, access to medicine, or something more directly
               | related to alleviating suffering.
               | 
               | If there's a direct connection here that I'm missing (one
               | of the engineers abandoned a medical degree to become a
               | developer) I'm willing to at least understand that. But
               | otherwise your idea still seems rather tenuous.
               | 
               | Oddly enough, you don't have an issue with the sport,
               | which is also suffering-neutral, and actually represents
               | a massive capital and labour waste by comparison.
               | (Stadiums, redirected tax revenue, bloated salaries,
               | ownership structures)
        
             | gameman144 wrote:
             | This is super interesting to me -- I would expect that this
             | world view would object to the comparatively extreme
             | infrastructure and capital requirements of professional
             | sports and other in-world consumption, vs. the relatively
             | small outlays for digital consumption.
        
       | tjohns wrote:
       | I'm very curious what they're using on the capture side for this.
       | How are they keying out the rest of the stadium? What's the
       | camera setup?
       | 
       | I'm not a huge sports fan, so I _honestly_ couldn 't say whether
       | I'd want to watch a game like this - but I love the concept. From
       | a technology perspective it's great to see them trying new
       | things.
       | 
       | I will say that 180deg video - the other way to content in VR -
       | makes content feel very emotionally impactful to me. If you
       | haven't watched the Apple Immersive Video series in VR, it's very
       | well produced and worth a watch to see the capabilities of the
       | format.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Stadiums/arenas are using more and more cameras through out
         | that some very cool/interesting things are coming from it. One
         | of them is a Matrix bullet-time style ability for highlighting
         | plays. The MLB places ads for the TV audience that the people
         | in the stadium do not see. Same for the boards around a
         | football pitch.
         | 
         | There's other tech going on specifically for sports analytics
         | using 8K cameras that analyzes each player to give their sprint
         | speeds, running distances, heatmap of their position on the
         | field, etc.
         | 
         | All of this to say that I don't really think that placing
         | specific cameras in the arena to provide this type of view
         | while keying out the rest of the stadium would be that
         | difficult. Especially if the cameras are in fixed positions
         | where the distances/angles were well known to the court.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | > Would you prefer to watch your sport of choice in 180-degree
       | immersive video, or as a 2D flatscreen view with a tabletop 3D
       | representation?
       | 
       | I think for people who are analyzing the game: Coaches, players,
       | opponents, dedicated fans, historians, the tabletop view will be
       | priceless. I also suspect that the tabletop view will become a
       | tool in the editing room.
       | 
       | For casual sports fans, a much more immersive experience will
       | probably be better.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | Oddly for me, radio has been the most immersive media for live
         | sports. Maybe because it is forced to prioritize audio...humans
         | dance to sound not pictures.
         | 
         | Not to say I seek out radio or that 3d doesn't seem cool. Only
         | that the effects of sound penetrate me in a way that visual
         | stimulus doesn't.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | Do they have this for F1?
        
         | terramex wrote:
         | There was unofficial Lapz app ( https://www.lapz.io ) on
         | TestFlight but got taken down after complaint from F1:
         | https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/20/24301420/apple-vision-pr...
         | 
         | I watched few races on it and it was pretty great. You logged
         | in with your F1TV account and could set up streams around you
         | plus there was 3D view of the track with current positions of
         | cars on it, you could look at car and pinch and driver view
         | opened in pop-up window attached to car model. Couple times I
         | noticed a car stopped on track before it was shown on main
         | broadcast.
        
       | somewhereoutth wrote:
       | Probably I'd want better seats!
       | 
       | Unfortunately this medium has neither the atmosphere of a live
       | event, nor the skilled camera feed cuts of a televised event (a
       | _lot_ of effort goes on behind the scenes to make a televised
       | game exciting to watch).
        
         | williamcotton wrote:
         | I don't watch a lot of basketball but the "all-22" film in
         | American football is great to watch for the hardcore fans.
         | Seeing the whole field or court from any vantage point could
         | give sports nerds some insight into how teams approach the
         | game.
        
       | fullshark wrote:
       | Another AR/VR use case I don't think people even want with
       | perfect fidelity. Time to seriously consider posibility
       | computers/smartphones are fully mature products like washing
       | machines and refrigerators were 40 years ago and there is no next
       | form factor.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | They've been mature for awhile.
         | 
         | My first smartphone was a $50 LG Android thing in 2012. I used
         | it to watch YouTube, check my email, listening to music, send
         | texts, make calls, and GPS.
         | 
         | I use my current phone, an iPhone 13 Pro Max, to watch YouTube,
         | check my email, listen to music, send texts, make calls, and
         | GPS.
         | 
         | Obviously the newer phone is _better_ , everything is faster,
         | higher resolution screen, much better camera, etc...but it's
         | not like I am doing anything with it that I wasn't doing in
         | 2012 with my cheapy Android.
        
       | asadotzler wrote:
       | A VR low-poly single camera view is FAR LESS immersive than the
       | actual NBA broadcasts which utilize 30-60 world class cameras,
       | including wide shots like this for context (but not silly laggy
       | stick figures.)
       | 
       | Even as a "second screen" I'm not going to turn my attention from
       | the fast paced "inside the action" feel I get from the broadcast
       | to look at this shitty game map because I'd miss the action, and
       | when there's no action, the professional NBA producers already
       | give me wide context shots, shots of the benches, the spectators,
       | and more.
       | 
       | This experience offers zero practical value, to NBA fans or even
       | casual sports watchers. It's yet another piece of truly worthless
       | VR demoware.
        
       | erulabs wrote:
       | VR and Sports together certainly brings out the cynicism!
       | Seriously tho, as with all VR/AR, this is _extremely cool_, but
       | the practical reality is that in order to enjoy this with a group
       | of friends we'd need ~8k in clunky heavy hardware on our heads.
       | Cheaper to _just go to an NBA game_.
       | 
       | One could _imagine_ this tech being used to rent out local
       | gymnasiums with movie-theater-showing-a-3d-film style glasses so
       | that every small town could go to an NBA game together. The
       | blocker is making the headset cheap enough that you could have
       | two thousand of them together in a room without the room being
       | wealthy enough to have just flown to an actual NBA game in the
       | first place.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-14 23:00 UTC)