[HN Gopher] White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security ...
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       White Hat Hackers Expose Iridium Satellite Security Flaws
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2025-02-13 16:23 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | thunder-blue-3 wrote:
       | I was once offered an engineering manager position at iridium
       | (which i discussed here
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41748519)-- that entire
       | company is a race to reduce the bottom line. They offered me (an
       | engineering manager to 5 engineers) a lower salary than I was
       | offered as a new grad. Also their talent pipeline is quite stale,
       | most of the engineers on my prospective team were at the org for
       | 10-20 years. For such an interesting aspect of technology, it's
       | ashame they can't attract more talent, such an untapped market
       | low earth orbit satellite networks are...
        
         | morgango wrote:
         | Iridium, that is a name I've not heard in a long time.
         | 
         | IMHO, the worst places to be are organizations that were
         | supposed to change the world, but didn't, and don't quite get
         | it.
         | 
         | Your experience totally tracks with that.
        
           | bathtub365 wrote:
           | They set up global satellite communications over 20 years
           | ago. They did change the world.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | This seems like it should be totally expected. Iridium's
         | engineering efforts are largely in the past, they're purely in
         | the revenue extraction mode at this point. Your job description
         | is basically just "maintain obsolete legacy system just enough
         | to make money."
        
         | martinsnow wrote:
         | Sadly I expect them to be at the stage of no relevance. Just
         | enough that as another commenter said it could make some money
         | but satellites have no business value.
        
           | wcfields wrote:
           | Their value is the niche of being able to work at the poles,
           | unlike any other constellation, despite being dialup speed.
        
             | martinsnow wrote:
             | But how can you translate that to dollars today?
        
         | glitchc wrote:
         | Starlink ate Iridium's lunch. Any benefits Iridium was supposed
         | to provide are currently achieved by Starlink.
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | Maybe specialty hardware? Are there handsets yet which can
           | connect to starlink?
        
             | albroland wrote:
             | iPhone, most notably.
        
               | moolcool wrote:
               | Starlink Direct to Cell is not available yet
        
               | flutas wrote:
               | I have it on my Pixel 9 Pro XL right now and have had it
               | since the end of January. Worked well so far for me in
               | the country where Tmo typically has had dead spots, if
               | not a little slow.
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/wrl5KLf.png
        
               | moolcool wrote:
               | That is just texting though, not voice or data.
        
               | schiffern wrote:
               | Let's not move goalposts. It's still undeniably both
               | "Starlink" and "Direct To Cell," so I would say that
               | Starlink Direct To Cell is indeed available.
        
               | moolcool wrote:
               | Moving the goalposts? The point I was refuting was "Any
               | benefits Iridium was supposed to provide are currently
               | achieved by Starlink", but Iridium offers services today
               | which StarLink does not.
        
               | keyme wrote:
               | Is it 5G only or does LTE also work?
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | It's only for texting so it doesn't really matter. That
               | said Iridium is so slow it's mostly only useful for
               | texting type situations as well. Even the voice is so
               | heavily compressed and laggy as to be mildly unpleasant
               | to use.
        
               | windexh8er wrote:
               | Much more than iPhone. From Tmobile's FAQ [0]:
               | 
               | Apple iPhone 14 and later (including Plus, Pro & Pro
               | Max), Google Pixel 9 (including Pro, Pro Fold, & Pro XL),
               | Motorola 2024 and later (including razr, razr+, edge and
               | g series), Samsung Galaxy A14, A15, A16, A35, A53, A54,
               | Samsung Galaxy S21 and later (including Plus, Ultra and
               | Fan Edition), Samsung Galaxy X Cover6 Pro, Samsung Galaxy
               | Z Flip3 and later, Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3 and later and
               | REVVL 7 (including Pro)
               | 
               | [0] https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-
               | service?ic...
        
         | harrall wrote:
         | Iridium and other satellite companies also went bankrupt and
         | their satellites were going to be de-orbited until the US
         | Government bailed them out in the 2000s. They couldn't get
         | enough customers to support enough launches.
         | 
         | Terrestrial networks in the meantime have only gotten better
         | and improved coverage. Not that many customers, relatively,
         | need satellite comms.
         | 
         | Now SpaceX is eating their lunch.
         | 
         | I don't think the market for satellite comms has ever been big
         | enough for a pure-satellite company to get enough money to do
         | something cool. SpaceX can afford the R&D because they are a
         | little more diversified.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > They couldn't get enough customers to support enough
           | launches.
           | 
           | No surprise, the only usecases back then for the price that
           | Iridium and others commanded were SAR, a few military/secret
           | service style use cases and execs who deem themselves to be
           | of such importance that they need to be reachable on the
           | globe 24/7 even if they are just taking a flight over the
           | Atlantic or on a cruise ship, and Iridium can't be reasonably
           | used for much more than that.
           | 
           | > Now SpaceX is eating their lunch.
           | 
           | Partially due to physics. Latency on Starlink is reportedly
           | low enough to run online games or telephony and the bandwidth
           | high enough to allow for video streaming in the outback,
           | which makes the potential market size muuuuch bigger so the
           | price point can be lowered enough to be competitive with
           | _landline DSL_ of all things.
           | 
           | The problem is, SpaceX isn't something that the US government
           | can rely on forever. _For now_ , its leader is in good
           | standing with the 47th, but that may change overnight (it has
           | happened with either of these characters before and _both_
           | have quite the large egos that will collide rather sooner
           | than later). And what to do then?
        
             | erinaceousjones wrote:
             | The other usecase has been Oceanographic sensors and
             | moorings, and GPS tags on things. Iridium RUDICS gets you
             | verrrry slow dialup connections to things and Iridium Short
             | Burst Data gets you ~1800 byte messages sent 'mailbox'
             | style. We use Iridium for sending them commands but also a
             | surprising amount of useful data can be stuffed into those
             | ~28k connections and 1800 byte payloads.
             | 
             | Argo floats use them, Slocum gliders and Seagliders use
             | them (underwater AUVs). There's lots of Iridium resellers
             | out there and small companies offering backup GPS tags like
             | RocksBlocks and Novatech and Argos (not too be confused
             | with Argo, or Argos the brand).
             | 
             | We get enough data back to build up vertical profiles of
             | the water column down to like 6000m depth with enough
             | resolution that scientists can pick out physical chemical
             | and biological features of interest. We communicate with
             | the AUVs every couple of hours on average and they are
             | operating all year round. I think there's probably a couple
             | thousand underwater-glider style AUVs and a couple thousand
             | Argo floats being used in total by the world's
             | oceanographic institutes, meteorological institutes,
             | militaries and coastguards etc.
             | 
             | It's a small niche, but a small niche that's been
             | collectively using Iridium for the best part of over 2
             | decades now and one that is very conservative about
             | change.... Like extraplanetary rovers with radiation
             | hardened hardware, deep sea pressure tested robots use
             | tried and tested stuff so we're a long ways off switching
             | to higher bandwidth alternatives... Especially since
             | Iridium comms are very low power and the modems are easy to
             | integrate into things.. tiny boards which accept AT
             | commands over serial.
             | 
             | It does not suprise me at all that security flaws have been
             | found in Iridium. Most of our applications of it don't even
             | consider security, the hardware itself rarely offers
             | encryption, and old-school Iridium RUDICS requires you to
             | open up a raw TCP port on a server open to the internet for
             | your satellite devices to dial into in RUDICS mode, and if
             | you're using SBD you're sending plaintext emails back and
             | forth to the Iridium gateway service. The whole thing is
             | very "security is not our problem" which means _nobody_
             | thinks about it. I believe the military versions of one of
             | the underwater glider AUVs has a login prompt now lol, but
             | still sends unencrypted passwords over the plaintext RUDICS
             | connection.
        
           | irish_john wrote:
           | >Now SpaceX is eating their lunch. Fact Check Time! Iridium
           | stock jumped 15% today, because their 4Q earnings vastly beat
           | expectations. They earned $0.31 per share versus expectations
           | of $0.16 Their Revenue grew 9% Year over Year to $213 million
        
       | vvillena wrote:
       | "Eccentric Orbits: The Iridium Story" by John Bloom is a must-
       | read for anyone remotely interested in satellites, communication
       | networks, or corporate management. The project achieved several
       | outstanding engineering feats, then fumbled into an almost
       | unrecoverable position, then rose from the ashes into the small
       | niche it holds today.
       | 
       | Plus, "Early calculations showed that 77 satellites would be
       | needed, hence the name Iridium", is an eternally cool piece of
       | trivia.
        
         | halper wrote:
         | I concur: was a very good read! Can wholeheartedly recommend.
        
       | jlg23 wrote:
       | I assume the article is based on this presentation at 38c3:
       | https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-investigating-the-iridium-satell...
        
       | flarzzarp wrote:
       | My guess is, that similar flaws have been known and exploited for
       | ages. I doubt that iridium was ever truly safe to begin with. I
       | was recently looking into renting an iridium satellite modem and
       | while doing so, I found a pdf on some shady private intelligence
       | agencies website that documented a tool to intercept calls and
       | messages as well as locating users of the network. The
       | screenshots looked like a late 90s, early 2000s windows ui and
       | talked about special radio equipment that the tool interfaces
       | with.
       | 
       | Search for "Iridium Interception System reference manual pdf"
        
         | palmotea wrote:
         | > I found a pdf on some shady private intelligence agencies
         | website that documented a tool to intercept calls and messages
         | as well as locating users of the network. ... Search for
         | "Iridium Interception System reference manual pdf"
         | 
         | This? https://pegasusintelligence.com/docs/iridium-monitoring-
         | syst...
         | 
         | > The screenshots looked like a late 90s, early 2000s windows
         | ui and talked about special radio equipment that the tool
         | interfaces with.
         | 
         | Mid-2000s. A lot of them have dates, and they're all Jan/Feb
         | 2007.
        
       | schiffern wrote:
       | >Users' locations and texts can be intercepted, including DoD
       | employees
       | 
       | Leaking DoD operator locations? Yikes!
       | 
       | If this was Starlink, you're kidding yourself if you think this
       | wouldn't be dominating an entire news cycle, and then transition
       | into an endlessly repeated mob refrain.
       | 
       | Since it's not, I expect crickets.
       | 
       | I yearn for the old days when the default media slant and popular
       | reach of tech news wasn't merely a function of its proximity to
       | Elon Musk.
        
         | rafram wrote:
         | Starlink has 4.6 million users, an extremely rapid growth rate,
         | and an outspoken owner who's currently in the news for causing
         | what amounts to a massive cybersecurity breach. Iridium has
         | fewer than half as many users and it and its leadership are not
         | household names.
        
       | firesteelrain wrote:
       | This has been known for a while. You can buy the RTL-SDR Blog
       | antenna on Amazon:
       | 
       | 1. https://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-1525-1637-Inmarsat-
       | Iridi...
       | 
       | 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jDTs79kq8
       | 
       | 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKO8hgtJUZ0
       | 
       | 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-mPaUwtqnE
       | 
       | 5. https://www.rtl-sdr.com/talk-decoding-data-from-iridium-
       | sate...
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | As Sec said in 2015, _" The problem isn't that Iridium has poor
       | security. It's that it has no security."_
        
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