[HN Gopher] I tasted Honda's spicy rodent-repelling tape and I w...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I tasted Honda's spicy rodent-repelling tape and I will do it again
       (2021)
        
       Author : voxadam
       Score  : 1502 points
       Date   : 2025-02-11 15:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (haterade.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (haterade.substack.com)
        
       | 1f60c wrote:
       | (2021)
        
         | vvillena wrote:
         | Nah. This is timeless.
        
       | ben1040 wrote:
       | Raise your hand if you tasted a Nintendo Switch cartridge because
       | you read the plastic was infused with a bitterant to mitigate
       | choking hazards.
        
         | fastball wrote:
         | Which in that case is Denatonium Benzoate.
        
         | bentcorner wrote:
         | Telling people not to do something is a sure fire way to get
         | them to do it. Human curiosity is strong.
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | Case in point: in Germany, there are occasionally "Durchgang
           | verboten" ("passage forbidden") signs next to driveways
           | leading to e.g. an inner courtyard. These are most of the
           | time a sure sign that it's possible to take a shortcut
           | through the courtyard to the other side of the block. Of
           | course, this is a country where you can be reasonably sure of
           | not getting shot for trespassing...
        
             | happyopossum wrote:
             | > where you can be reasonably sure of not getting shot for
             | trespassing
             | 
             | How exactly does that make it OK to be disrespectful of
             | other people's property and privacy?
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | Do you hate Hawaii's protection of beach access even if
               | it requires passage through private property? Legalized
               | disrespect?
        
               | voxic11 wrote:
               | I couldn't find anything to support the idea that
               | Hawaii's protection of beach access allows anyone to
               | traverse private property except where a specific rights-
               | of-way easement exists on that property. I don't think
               | the gp would consider use of land via an easement to be
               | disrespectful as the easement holder has rights to the
               | land that must be respected as well.
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | Various legal systems have varying definitions of what is
               | and is not a legal infringement on property rights.
               | 
               | For instance, in (some parts of?) the UK there's the
               | Right to Roam, I believe, which grants the public limited
               | rights to pass through certain private property (such as
               | an open field). Obviously this doesn't extend to harming
               | anything. The point is, passing through someone's private
               | property without causing any damage or inconveniencing
               | them is not automatically considered unethical.
        
               | Sharlin wrote:
               | For the record, freedom to roam in England and Wales is
               | rather limited in scope; the quintessential right-to-roam
               | countries are the Nordics (and to an extent Scotland, but
               | it's an honorary Nordic country anyway). For example, in
               | Finland the customary rights extend beyond just hiking to
               | activities like gathering wild berries and mushrooms.
        
               | Sharlin wrote:
               | The courtyards of apartment complexes/condos are usually
               | considered either semi-public or semi-private spaces, and
               | their status with regard to passing through is not clear-
               | cut either legally or morally.
        
             | devilbunny wrote:
             | In the US, "NO THRU TRUCKS" is a dead giveaway that you are
             | staring at a shortcut route. And as it isn't "PRIVATE
             | ROAD", you are not trespassing.
             | 
             | If it's not someone's home, and you are not engaged in
             | nefarious activity, you will not be shot for trespassing.
             | You will be told to leave.
        
               | sib wrote:
               | PSA: Don't try this in rural Wyoming...
        
               | devilbunny wrote:
               | Even in cattle country, if you make no attempt to hide
               | your presence, I would expect no trouble. I have pulled a
               | gun on someone and had one pulled on me. It was fine both
               | times. Just needed to be explained.
        
               | StefanBatory wrote:
               | ... if you got to the point where gun was pulled on you,
               | that was already a situation where it's so fine? I'll be
               | honest, I don't understand how can you be so calm.
        
           | shawnz wrote:
           | See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wp:beans
        
         | somenameforme wrote:
         | Well.... how did it taste?
        
           | veonik wrote:
           | Well, I can say that you definitely won't want to taste it
           | twice.
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | I was disappointed that it was a bit bitter, yes, but not
             | in the category of "won't do it twice". Such that I even
             | tried multiple cartridges. I'm retirement age, though, so
             | maybe my taste buds are shot.
        
           | waltbosz wrote:
           | I thought it tasted like quinine/tonic water or maybe
           | grapefruit rind (the ingredient in the Beverly soda from
           | Italy). Coin batteries sometimes have a bitter taste coating
           | which is similar to the Switch cart.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | It tasted like that time I popped a Smartie/Rocket in my
           | mouth and began chewing casually only to realize that it was
           | an uncoated Tylenol pill.
        
           | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
           | Extremely bitter
        
           | ben1040 wrote:
           | I stuck just the tip of my tongue on there, and it was so
           | bitter that it was more of a sensation than just a taste.
           | Enough that I reflexively pulled away.
        
         | Cpoll wrote:
         | I found this out accidentally. I have a habit of holding the
         | cartridge between my lips when I switch cartridges (my hands
         | are occupied with the case). Then minutes later I'd notice a
         | bitter taste when drinking water or licking my lips, and have
         | no idea why!
        
         | ollybee wrote:
         | <raises hand> .. It really was grim
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | Back in the day when I worked desktop support, we would use a
         | lot of canned air. And when they added bitterant to that stuff
         | in order to keep kids from huffing it, it became almost
         | unusable for its intended purpose because it turns out that
         | nobody wants to have to breathe the bitter air after they clean
         | out a PC. So, I went to the office supply store and sampled
         | some different brands to see which ones didn't add a bitterant.
         | The irony that their anti-huffing measure led to me
         | (essentially) huffing canned air at the store was not lost on
         | me.
        
           | myself248 wrote:
           | We just bought an air compressor.
           | 
           | And ran the hose outside, because nobody wants to breathe the
           | dust, either.
        
             | philjohn wrote:
             | And if you don't want to buy an air compressor, an electric
             | computer duster saves you money in the medium and long
             | term. I haven't bought a can of compressed air in years.
        
           | ThatPlayer wrote:
           | I learned the hard way that if you're using canned air upside
           | down as a method to cool something down rapidly, the
           | bitterant stays behind.
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | Kindle charging cables were a favorite among some of my
         | friends, for similar reasons.
        
         | razakel wrote:
         | The brand name is Bitrex. They send samples to parent groups to
         | demonstrate why it's a good idea to put it on things kids might
         | swallow.
        
       | palmotea wrote:
       | > You see, the thing about rodents--be they rat or shrew or vole
       | --is that they really like to gnaw.
       | 
       | IIRC, they don't _like to_ , they _have to_. If they don 't wear
       | down their teeth, they'll grow out of control and kill them.
        
         | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
         | Or, hear me out, their teeth _have_ to grow because they like
         | to chew so much they 'd wear them down and starve
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | Really a mouth half full kinda of guy.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | > If they don't wear down their teeth, they'll grow out of
         | control and kill them.
         | 
         | cf the Babirusa - "If a male babirusa does not grind his tusks
         | (achievable through regular activity), they can eventually keep
         | growing and, rarely, penetrate the individual's skull."[0]
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babirusa
        
         | i80and wrote:
         | Unfun pet rat fact: if their teeth start growing at weird
         | angles for whatever reason, this mechanism stops working and
         | you have to get the teeth trimmed every couple weeks.
        
         | Clamchop wrote:
         | To be fair, the biological mechanism for motivating behaviors
         | is usually by making it rewarding.
         | 
         | They both have to and like to!
        
       | numlocked wrote:
       | I have no insight but boy oh boy is this funny and well written.
       | Like prime Dave Barry [0].
       | 
       | [0] https://www.davebarry.com/columns/how-to-make-board.php
        
         | donaldihunter wrote:
         | A genuine lol, for both the OP and for [0]
        
         | wibbily wrote:
         | Reminded me of Dennis Lee too
         | 
         | [0] https://foodisstupid.substack.com/p/escargogurt
        
           | uean wrote:
           | My God I havent struggled to contain laughter in a public
           | place like this before. Thanks.
        
         | ping00 wrote:
         | I genuinely can't remember having laughed at well written prose
         | in a long time, thanks for sharing [0]. OP is gold too.
         | 
         | Takes me back to my high school days when I would have to choke
         | down my laughter as I surreptitiously read Cracked.com articles
         | in class
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | Dave Barry was my favorite columnist as far back as age 8 or 9.
         | He's so funny.
        
         | twic wrote:
         | Reminded me a lot of Steve, Don't Eat It! (modulo twenty years
         | of progress in being less deliberately over the top online):
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20180712104826/http://www.thesne...
        
           | buildsjets wrote:
           | Well that kicks me right in the memberberries. The Beggin,
           | Lettuce, and Tomato sandwich was a classic. https://web.archi
           | ve.org/web/20180712104821/http://www.thesne...
        
         | halkony wrote:
         | I have not laughed this hard in ages. I am in love with this
         | author.
        
         | p1nkpineapple wrote:
         | In the same vein, this had me rolling
         | https://cernius.substack.com/p/finger-lickin-good
        
       | worthless-trash wrote:
       | I kinda want him to compare it against the nintendo switch
       | cartridge taste.
        
         | skyyler wrote:
         | Something tells me that Liz Cook is not a "him"
        
           | worthless-trash wrote:
           | I thought Liz like Liza, same theory applies.
        
       | wlesieutre wrote:
       | For reference on the poem at the bottom
       | https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56159/this-is-just-to...
       | 
       | Another adaptation I enjoyed
       | https://x.com/AthertonKD/status/585661777645547520
        
         | tamasnet wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
         | exhilaration wrote:
         | Thank you for both links. I only read the linked article after
         | following your links!
        
         | TRiG_Ireland wrote:
         | Thanks. I knew it was a reference. It was tugging on threads in
         | the back of my brain. But I couldn't place it at all.
        
         | rukuu001 wrote:
         | My version:
         | 
         | This is just to say
         | 
         | - quit fucking with that poem
        
       | mdrzn wrote:
       | "Honda never replied to my tweet."
       | 
       | "Still, I fired off a couple emails to Honda's PR team just in
       | case. To my great surprise, Chris got back to me the next
       | business day"
       | 
       | Why do people think that Twitter is the support page for
       | companies? Honest question.
       | 
       | Maybe it's an american-centric view, or maybe it's my small
       | european mind that cannot comprehend why would someone publicly
       | tweet something to a company instead of sending an email to ask a
       | question.
        
         | rkuykendall-com wrote:
         | It used to be, because it was public, it was the only place
         | companies would pretend to care about end users.
        
           | no_wizard wrote:
           | To re-iterate, this is why.
           | 
           | I had an issue for 2 months with Verizon where they messed up
           | my new phone deliveries by sending me the wrong ones and they
           | didn't ship other merchandise I purchased at the same time.
           | Their customer support was terribly unhelpful, even after
           | repeated escalations. It was enough I nearly went to AT&T[0].
           | 
           | They first wanted to charge me re-stocking fees on an order
           | they very clearly messed up (for the wrong phones delivered).
           | Then they wanted me to pay for shipping on the correct
           | devices, and they incorrectly billed me as well, and it took
           | several escalations to get them to understand I didn't
           | receive my other merchandise either, which they then told me
           | I had to make _another support request for_. It was a whole
           | mess.
           | 
           | I sent a tweet (and mind you, I'm a nobody) and within 24
           | hours it was resolved correctly, and they even next day
           | shipped everything to me, which I did not expect.
           | 
           | It will be the last time I ever buy from Verizon instead of
           | Apple directly, but at least it got resolved in the end.
           | 
           | [0]: Still might. I need the coverage of the big 2,
           | unfortunately I can't jump to say, T-Mobile, as a result.
        
             | brk wrote:
             | I switched from Verizon to T-Mobile a couple of years ago.
             | Zero regrets, coverage has been excellent, and I travel
             | quite a bit.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | I know what works and doesn't work where I need it to,
               | unfortunately the edge cases matter in this instance and
               | I can't work around them.
               | 
               | Thus, I'm stuck for now.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | T-Mobile is trialing Starlink support on select phones,
             | surpassing the other two in coverage in rural areas.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | I'll let that marinate for a few years first before I
               | decide to trust it entirely.
               | 
               | Though its not rural areas that are the only issue.
               | There's saturation issues with other carriers in some of
               | my travels. Only Verizon and AT&T doesn't fall apart
               | comparatively.
        
             | themaninthedark wrote:
             | I had to go out of the country, so I overpaid my AT&T
             | internet bill so it would cover 2 months and rounded up by
             | ~10 cents to the nearest dollar amount.
             | 
             | First month bill, no problem. Second month bill, no
             | problem.
             | 
             | Third month bill should be $amount -credit, nope. They took
             | my credit, listed it as an underpayment and applied a fee.
             | 
             | So I go to the store; they can't help with account issues,
             | you have to call.
             | 
             | I call, sit through the waiting music, get a rep who get a
             | rep is quite obviously doesn't care. No "Sorry for our
             | obvious billing mistake" or anything. They correct the
             | account and ask if I will pay right now, I decide that I
             | will since I don't trust their system to update in a timely
             | manner.
             | 
             | The rep then has the audacity to talk about how AT&T
             | charges a convenience fee to pay via phone but they are
             | going to waive it this time.
             | 
             | AT&T fiber and Xfinity cable are the only options in my
             | area....
             | 
             | I still can not understand how they made that error in the
             | first place. It's not like accounting, credits and balances
             | are a new thing. The bill even showed the credit
             | transaction correctly, showing it coming out of the bill
             | balance owed.
        
               | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
               | > I overpaid my AT&T internet bill so it would cover 2
               | months
               | 
               | That's a bit XX century, why not have some form of
               | automatic payment?
               | 
               | (Not that it wasn't moronic of them, but you probably hit
               | what now is a corner case ...)
        
               | themaninthedark wrote:
               | I do set up auto payment when I am sure the bill will be
               | stable, this was while I was still in the introduction
               | rate and I wanted to be aware of when the price change
               | hit.
               | 
               | Now the question is, since they messed up what should be
               | a simple accounting transaction, do I trust their billing
               | system to have unfettered access to take funds from my
               | bank :)
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | It's AT&T - no, don't trust them with anything.
               | Preferably not even with being their customer.
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | I can much quicker get an answer from Bank Of America--and
           | get a Tier 3 Customer Service person to call me--on X than I
           | can by calling their main number.
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | Only if their software thinks you have enough followers, and
           | the software thinks they aren't fake followers.
           | 
           | If you don't have enough potential impact, the humans may
           | never even see your post.
           | 
           | If anyone thinks that _insert company here_ cares about your
           | tweet about your issue because they replies to _insert even
           | slightly famous person here_ , you're deluding yourself.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | It's still the fastest/only way to receive customer support
           | for a lot of place. It's very sad but it's the truth.
           | 
           | The last time an airline screwed up and refused to fix their
           | mistake the employee at the booth lowered her voice and said
           | "Do you have twitter? You might try complaining there, they
           | don't like it when people complain on twitter" which was just
           | the most depressing thing to hear.
        
           | nxobject wrote:
           | The old piece of advice if you were getting stonewalled was
           | to write a personal letter to "$CEO_NAME, $HQ_ADDRESS". I
           | wonder whether that still works today.
        
             | codazoda wrote:
             | It often does. The other thing that has worked for me is
             | contacting the legal department. Probably the same address,
             | c/o legal.
             | 
             | Just don't say something stupid like, "I'm going to sue
             | you". If you escalate too far they'll wait for the summons.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | I worked in a department called "hot site support" back in
             | the 90's for Iomega (maker of the Zip drive). That meant I
             | delt with two things, customers who spent over $100k on
             | hardware, and customers that wiggled their way up to the
             | CEO's admin. I had carte blanche to resolve the issues and
             | I was just 20 years old and early into my career.
        
         | sorenjan wrote:
         | It's from 2021, it was a different era. I hope it's fading
         | away.
        
           | devin wrote:
           | It greatly predates 2021.
        
           | PhasmaFelis wrote:
           | I would dearly love to return to even the 2021 era of the
           | internet in general. 1999 would be ideal, actually. But I'd
           | settle for most anything up to 2012 or so.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | I've been trying to work out what the end date of the good
             | internet was, and if there was a trigger event, and I'm
             | starting to think it was somewhere between Tahrir Square
             | (2011) and Euromaidan (2014); once the political internet
             | became really effective, it had to be countered by those in
             | power.
        
               | sharpshadow wrote:
               | 2011 was the release year of bootstrap so that would fit
               | quite well.
        
               | interestica wrote:
               | Asteroid 2024 YR4 (the one that might hit Earth in 2032)
               | also made close passes in 2012, 2016, and 2020. ...
        
           | gs17 wrote:
           | If only it fading away didn't mean instead of being able to
           | treat Twitter as support there's no place to get actual
           | support from a lot of companies. E.g. Google sent me a
           | promotion for a Nest camera if I bought their subscription,
           | and instead of a camera I've had their "support" read the
           | same script about how they'll fix it within a few days since
           | November. At least if I used Twitter as support, other people
           | would see the issue that didn't get resolved.
        
           | DoughnutHole wrote:
           | Yea now we just have people only getting help with issues
           | with Stripe when an exec has to respond to them making a
           | stink about it on Hacker News.
        
         | JeanSebTr wrote:
         | It seems like an appropriate channel given the silliness of the
         | question!
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | I think there was a _time_ when this worked; companies were
         | very anxious about their Social Media Presence (TM) so would
         | treat public social media messages, particularly complaints, as
         | priority support cases. You can imagine all sorts of factors
         | which would have decreased its effectiveness in recent years
         | though; overuse, companies becoming more used to social media,
         | the death of a usable Twitter API, making tracking this stuff
         | difficult, the general decline of Twitter (if it's likely to be
         | presented beside Elon Musk retweeting a white supremacist or
         | something, are twitter complaints about your dishwasher being
         | too noisy really all that consequential?)...
         | 
         | It's definitely a thing some people still _believe_ in, though,
         | and some people have twitter accounts which they use _solely_
         | for moaning about brands (there used to be a fun Twitter
         | account which replied to them, as if from the brand they were
         | moaning about; not sure if it's still a thing).
        
           | no_wizard wrote:
           | Some still are anxious about it, but others have seemingly
           | stopped caring, as I think they believe their near monopoly
           | positions means bad PR no longer matters. Looking at Comcast
           | in particular.
        
           | albert_e wrote:
           | In India, there are dozens of imposter accounts on twitter
           | that pose as a bank's or telco's official handle.
           | 
           | They are very often the more responsive, and very caring and
           | polite, quick to admit they are at fault ... and lure
           | complainers into sharing personal info on DM on promises of
           | speedy resolution.
           | 
           | This was a problem before Twitter became X. The blue tick
           | mark was the only indicator of genuine accounts. Then X
           | started selling tick marks to whoever pasy 8 dollars.
           | 
           | Now it's wild west.
        
             | gs17 wrote:
             | Facebook has a similar issue (although in this case the
             | accounts may be from India but they go after everyone).
             | People commenting on a company's page will get replies from
             | accounts that set their name to "CUSTOMER SERVICE" or "TECH
             | SUPPORT" (Mr. and Mrs. Support must have really had a
             | specific career path in mind for their child) saying
             | they're here to help and to kindly message them for a
             | solution.
             | 
             | I've tried reporting these and Meta really does not care.
             | Report as scam, nope looks fine to us. Report as fake name,
             | nope looks fine to us. I don't think I've ever seen their
             | report system work.
        
         | matthewbunge wrote:
         | It can depend on the company, but some companies literally
         | don't have a public facing email anymore. I was trying to get
         | in contact with Bank of America of whom I am not a customer
         | because they were (and still are) spamming my inbox and the
         | only human contact I managed at all was via their support
         | Twitter page.
         | 
         | Not that it got me anywhere in the long run.
        
         | tantalor wrote:
         | Back when Twitter was the most useful and popular (roughly
         | 2018-2022), it was common for some companies to do support over
         | tweets. Delta Air Lines (@delta) comes to mind.
         | 
         | I think those days are over.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Often it was.
         | 
         | I once had an insurance problem that was resolved only after I
         | posted about it .. on Livejournal. They'd namesearched
         | themselves and assigned a special team of super-customer
         | service "fixers" (maybe just one person!) to look at complaints
         | on social media.
         | 
         | We all understand that the only customer support channel for
         | Google for things like unjust account cancellations is to post
         | and hope a Google employee reads it, yes?
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | Because public complaints got traction and led to outcomes
         | private complaints did not.
        
         | VeninVidiaVicii wrote:
         | I used Twitter at one point to get a replacement on a Patagonia
         | backpack, through their actual claims department.
        
         | hollywood_court wrote:
         | I myself have always had luck with contacting customer service
         | via Twitter. It's the only reason I have ever used Twitter.
         | 
         | I recently had a problem with FedEx that wasn't resolved with
         | multiple phone calls and emails.
         | 
         | I messaged them on Twitter and had the problem resolved in
         | minutes.
         | 
         | I've had the same luck when I had a problem with a collections
         | department calling my phone daily for 2+ years. They were
         | looking for an individual that must have owned my phone number
         | prior to me.
         | 
         | I told the caller to remove my number from their list every
         | time they called. I sent multiple emails.
         | 
         | I finally had luck by reaching out to their Twitter account and
         | politely threatening to alert my attorney general. The issue
         | was resolved that same day.
        
           | rogerrogerr wrote:
           | I stumbled upon a new way to get out of this same situation -
           | they'd been looking for Joshua for five years by calling my
           | phone, and I am very much not him. All kinds of tactics.
           | 
           | Mid last year, I just offered to pay the debt. Conversation
           | looked like this:
           | 
           | Them: "Can I speak to Joshua?"
           | 
           | Me: "No, he's not here, and I think he's dead. But I'll write
           | you a check right now for the debt amount to stop you calling
           | me. How much is it?"
           | 
           | Them: "So you are Joshua?"
           | 
           | Me: "No, I'm just irritated and you've won, I'll solve this
           | by paying you"
           | 
           | Them: "What is your social security number?"
           | 
           | Me: "Doesn't matter. How much do I write this check for?"
           | 
           | Them: "We can't tell you the debt amount without verifying
           | you are Joshua"
           | 
           | Me: "Well, I guess we're at an impasse then."
           | 
           | And they haven't called me again for nine glorious months.
        
         | michaelcampbell wrote:
         | > Why do people think that Twitter is the support page for
         | companies? Honest question.
         | 
         | Evolution. Sometimes it's the only way to get support; people
         | migrate to what works.
        
         | lawgimenez wrote:
         | Our country's Telecom company support was on Twitter, tweet or
         | DM.
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | Email is not as easily available on website but an official
         | Twitter
        
         | whamlastxmas wrote:
         | A credit bureau literally asks you to do customer support via
         | twitter
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | Judging by the nature of the blog, I don't think she was too
         | serious about it.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > Maybe it's an american-centric view, or maybe it's my small
         | european mind that cannot comprehend why would someone publicly
         | tweet something to a company instead of sending an email to ask
         | a question.
         | 
         | German here. Raising a stink on social media is the only thing
         | that helps even for large national companies ( _cough_ telco
         | providers _cough_ ).
         | 
         | The reason is simple, the callcenters are either absolute
         | doofuses barely capable of following a script or they're
         | artificially restricted by the script. People with access to
         | the corp social media account are more carefully vetted to have
         | brains (because you don't want them to like some pr0n on the
         | official account by accident) and social media criticism always
         | has the potential to go viral, so the agents have _a lot_ of
         | leeway to deal with enraged customers.
        
           | fransje26 wrote:
           | > (cough telco providers cough)
           | 
           | You mean the cartel ruining (running) the telecommunication
           | services? And then running ads on the radio gaslighting
           | potential customers about how "cheap" they are? Yeah..
           | 
           | Fun fact, it's often cheaper to use a foreign European data
           | plan in Germany than to get a local contract. (Of course your
           | mileage my vary. Some providers forbid it.)
        
           | reginald78 wrote:
           | I actually think it is just the public nature of it all. If
           | there's a bunch of twitter posts on your page complaining
           | about the product being crap that you're ignoring that
           | already says something. Whereas if you resolve them in public
           | you've turned bad PR into good PR. But bad customer service
           | when they call in is just a rumor.
        
         | booleandilemma wrote:
         | I had to have my password reset a several years ago for some
         | service, and the only mechanism they had to do this was to
         | reach out to the company on Twitter. This would have been
         | around 2018 and I remember thinking it was bizarre at the time.
        
         | JaumeGreen wrote:
         | A couple of years back I had a problem with a package that
         | didn't reach me, and it was marked as delivered. The only point
         | of contact that responded in any way was Twitter, the shipping
         | company did not have other functioning way to connect to them.
         | 
         | This was in Spain, so no, not only USA. I have not deleted my X
         | user, even though I never use it, just in case I need to ever
         | go in and contact some company that I can't contact otherwise.
        
         | sedatk wrote:
         | They don't?
         | 
         | > To be fair, I hadn't really expected anyone in the company to
         | get back to me
        
         | btreecat wrote:
         | I tweeted at DHL when the delivery driver didn't even knock on
         | the door, they pulled up then left.
         | 
         | They apologized and sent the dude back later the same day.
         | 
         | Public shaming used to be a very effective tool
        
         | aero142 wrote:
         | The selling point software that monitors social media to do
         | support is about brand reputation. If people are saying bad
         | things about your company on social media, then that is hurting
         | your public image, so you should respond to those issues and
         | make sure they get resolved. In practice, this means that the
         | people responding are less likely to be outsourced because the
         | the funding is more than just a support cost. In practice, this
         | means you can often get better support through Twitter than
         | email.
        
       | almog wrote:
       | I wonder if it could prevent mice from chewing into food bags in
       | the backcountry. Not sure what it would incur in terms of weight
       | but could be another type of product instead of the alternatives
       | (odor proof sack, Ursack and hanging).
        
         | Damogran6 wrote:
         | I use gloves when chopping up peppers. Don't want that
         | capsaicin getting under the fingernails and then anywhere else
         | mucosal membrane.
         | 
         | Which is to day: It'd be good for bags you don't want to handle
         | very much.
        
         | mordechai9000 wrote:
         | Bear spray is supposed to attract bears, and the story is they
         | even like the taste - except when it's blasted into their
         | eyes/nose/mouth/lungs. It is a food product. So I would be a
         | little concerned about that.
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | Easily one of the most informative rodent tape reviews I've read
       | this week
        
       | tyho wrote:
       | I tasted the coin cell bitterant when I replaced my Airtag
       | battery. Didn't taste very bitter to me.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | An LLM would never predict the word sequence of this title
        
         | KTibow wrote:
         | Checking with GLTR:
         | 
         | - 6 of the tokens were within the top 10 predictions - 8 of the
         | tokens were in the #10-100 range - 3 of the tokens were in the
         | #100-1000 range - 3 of the tokens weren't in any of the top
         | 1000 predictions
        
           | wolfgang42 wrote:
           | TIL about http://demo.gltr.io/client/index.html
           | 
           | The specific top_k counts were:
           | 
           | I(4) tasted(927) Honda(5363)'s(0) spicy(327)
           | rodent(11589)-(0)re(202)pelling(1) tape(5202) and(6) I(1)
           | will(67) do(29) it(3) again(0)
           | 
           | So we can conclude that the LLM doesn't think much of "tasted
           | Honda" or "repelling tape", and was _very_ surprised by
           | "Honda's spicy rodent", but it knows enough about human
           | nature that "and I will do it again" came as almost no
           | surprise whatsoever.
        
       | glitchc wrote:
       | This seems completely random...
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | That's a lot of faith in the supply chain, that someone didn't
       | swap in an even worse material (because, who's going to notice;
       | not the rats).
       | 
       | Also, doesn't glamorizing this behavior, in a "lol im so random"
       | way, encourage other people to do reckless stunts?
        
         | nancyminusone wrote:
         | Doing this once is probably no more reckless than licking an
         | envelope.
        
           | neilv wrote:
           | The people who produce envelopes know that envelopes are
           | likely to be licked, and that they would likely be in big
           | trouble if they or a supplier substitutes in a material that
           | sends someone to the hospital.
        
           | mmmlinux wrote:
           | Ah yes, Ive seen this episode of Seinfeld.
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | Well, those were a ton of envelopes... :)
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | I'm just guessing that the downvoters don't have young
         | children, or haven't heard of some of the things that go on on
         | social media.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | My guess is that this is a funny column about whimsical
           | things (often food related, the author seems to have worked
           | as a restaurant critic) and it's full of "don't do this at
           | home" disclaimers.
           | 
           | So I'd say:
           | 
           | - Your children shouldn't be reading her blog.
           | 
           | - Adults reading her blog shouldn't imitate her behavior, and
           | instead, take it as a bit of humor.
           | 
           | I bet in reality she did a _little bit_ more fact-checking
           | than she shows on her blog post.
        
             | lmm wrote:
             | I would take that bet. Sure, you can carefully affect being
             | this careless, but it's easier to just actually be this
             | careless.
        
       | rozab wrote:
       | NileRed has videos of him eating pure capsaicin, which evidently
       | doesn't feel that spicy
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFvoCCRZWyI
        
         | michaelcampbell wrote:
         | I have a feeling NileRed's senses may be dulled; he also made
         | some of the world's worst smelling stuff and didn't get much
         | from it.
        
         | alangibson wrote:
         | He made military spec latrine odor and didn't think it was that
         | bad. He's built different.
        
           | girvo wrote:
           | Well not so much built different as "permanently damaged his
           | senses"
           | 
           | Its semi-common in chemists. Unrelated note: concentrated
           | formic acid does indeed kind of smell like an ant sting, and
           | dear god does it hurt.
        
         | treefarmer wrote:
         | He also permanently damaged his sense of smell/taste, so I feel
         | like he might not be the most reliable source...
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | Thank you Liz Cook for this brave and important research!
       | 
       | Love the writing style.
        
       | tofof wrote:
       | Liquid capsaicin treatments for bird seed are an effective
       | squirrel repellent.
       | 
       | They also illustrate the evolution of this protein: birds have no
       | receptors for capsaicin, while mammals do. Birds eat seeds mostly
       | intactly. Their digestive systems are capable of breaking them
       | down - but it's stochastic and some seeds make it through the
       | bird undigested, being redistributed elsewhere. Obviously, having
       | an agent sow your seeds widely is a fitness advantage, and so
       | seedy plants are ultimately served well even if 90+% of their
       | caloric investment into seeds goes into the birds.
       | 
       | Mammals, on the other hand, have teeth - particularly molars.
       | Mammals that eat seeds grind them apart orally before even
       | swallowing. As a result, any seeds ingested by mammals are very
       | likely to be completely destroyed. Plants - peppers, anyway -
       | found a chemical irritant that repels the mammals without even
       | being sensed by birds.
       | 
       | I've used one such treatment (with an amusing logo illustrataion
       | - https://i.imgur.com/JAl8vyW.png) to good effect to discourage
       | squirrels at my feeder, so that they stick to my dedicated
       | squirrel bungee with a log of compressed corn instead.
        
         | cdaringe wrote:
         | Incredible image. My squirrel neighbors may get a dose this
         | spring
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | Interestingly, that very irritant is now the key to the
         | widespread success of some pepper species by the way of a
         | specific species of mammals.
        
           | tofof wrote:
           | Oh? Which pepper species and carrier mammal are involved
           | here?
           | 
           | Edit: DERP duh you mean humans. :D Literally made the
           | comparison without recognizing it, too. /Edit
           | 
           | Not challenging you, just curious and not immediately finding
           | the answer myself with a quick search.
           | 
           | The capsaicin receptor is TRPV1, which is a critical protein
           | for thermoregulation and detection of being burned. In other
           | words, it's not just a quick and easy evolutionary path to
           | have a mutation break the receptor for capsaicin and now be
           | immune to the taste. Obviously the animals could evolve
           | behavior or even simply learn as juveniles to tolerate or
           | even enjoy the taste (as many humans do).
           | 
           | There are some other interesting things that happen with
           | avian carriers, like reductions in fungal infection and
           | attractiveness to other predators (ants).
           | https://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/21/airborne-gut-
           | acti...
        
             | jumhyn wrote:
             | I believe it's a cheeky reference to humans intentionally
             | cultivating hot peppers specifically because of their
             | capsaicin-producing quality. :)
        
               | grimgrin wrote:
               | Recently Howtown talked about some of the theories:
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/dutpBSKj8JY?t=196
               | 
               | It looks at a couple non-competing (iirc) theories
        
             | 14 wrote:
             | I mentioned in another comment about growing a Carolina
             | Reaper last summer and trying it with my dad and 13 year
             | old son. My dad and I instantly knew how bad the next half
             | hour or so of our life was about to be. My son also found
             | it hot but no more then 5 minutes later comes out of his
             | room (after we all chewed a pepper and spat it out he went
             | to his room with a slurpee) he casually walks out and says
             | dad is it okay for me to have a shower. He didn't have his
             | slurpee and really did not seemed bothered by the
             | experience at all. Me on the other hand was in insanity
             | pain. Could not stop running water over my tongue or suck
             | on ice and suffered for at least a half hour. I just
             | couldn't believe he took it so well. My only thought was he
             | must not be so sensitive or lacks something like the
             | receptors that detect it.
             | 
             | After writing all that I did a search about people with low
             | TRPV1 receptors and found an interesting study done on a
             | couple people lacking functional TRPV1 channels. They were
             | insensitive to the application of capsaicin to the mouth
             | and skin. Furthermore they had an elevated heat pain
             | threshold as well as an elevated cold pain threshold. Why I
             | found this interesting is because my same son who barely
             | reacted to this insanely hot pepper I can never get to wear
             | a jacket to school. He does not mind the cold at all. He
             | will if we were up a mountain or something but he always
             | complains the car is too hot when I am cold. Anyways not
             | sure he lacks function TRPV1 receptors but still
             | interesting to think about. Article linked below.
             | 
             | https://www.jci.org/articles/view/153558
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | _> Could not stop running water over my tongue or suck on
               | ice and suffered for at least a half hour._
               | 
               | Capsaicin is a nonpolar molecule that is fat soluble and
               | hydrophobic, so running water over your tongue either has
               | no impact on the problem or makes it worse.
               | 
               | You want to consume anything with fat like milk or sour
               | cream or even pure olive oil which will dissolve the
               | capsaicin and carry it down your digestive tract. For
               | something as strong as a reaper challenge, you'll want to
               | gargle olive oil because the mechanical action of the
               | bubbles helps break up anything coated on your tongue
               | like soap does when washing your hands. Alcohol based
               | mouth wash also works as does ethanol (Everclear) in
               | general. Edible surfactants and emulsifiers work best but
               | unless you like drinking blended raw eggs or mustard,
               | that might not work for you.
               | 
               | To help when it comes out the other end: drink lots of
               | dairy because the casein helps and eat a bunch of starch
               | (rice, potatoes, bread, etc) and bananas, and stay well
               | hydrated.
        
               | 14 wrote:
               | Definitely. And I did do thinks like swish milk and wiped
               | my tongue with a paper towel and a cracker and a couple
               | other things. But ultimately the running water and ice
               | was a huge relief but only while I was actively doing it.
               | It didn't lessen the pain if I stopped. Where I am the
               | water is very cold this time of year so it helped. As for
               | the other end I really didn't want the pain in my throat
               | or other end so I chose to only chew a big chunk briefly
               | and spit it out. At the end of the day I had to know what
               | it felt like. It is pure pain lol. Will not be doing it
               | again.
        
               | eru wrote:
               | You might want to drink just the egg yolk?
        
               | AngryData wrote:
               | If he consistently avoids dressing warm the human body is
               | pretty adaptable to cold conditions so I wouldn't look to
               | deep at that. Both a persons circulatory pattern and
               | metabolism change when exposed to the cold, and people
               | who expose themselves to cold consistently enough respond
               | in far better ways. Their metabolism will shoot up near
               | immediately when someone not adapted will only gain that
               | after they are already cold and shivering. And blood flow
               | is maintained to the extremities but just avoiding more
               | of the skin's surface, where as the unadapted will have
               | just a general decrease in bloodflow to that entire
               | extremity.
               | 
               | If you go extreme enough humans can even walk barefoot
               | through the snow without a problem all day without a real
               | problem, where as someone who wears socks and shoes when
               | it is freezing cold will get serious frostbite on their
               | feet in like 30 minutes or less if they tried it without
               | adapting themselves over time.
               | 
               | For a direct application of this, ice climbers will soak
               | their hands in ice water for 45 minutes every day in the
               | weeks leading up to a climb so that their hands don't
               | freeze and maintain blood flow when on an ice climb,
               | because obviously you can't just stop and warm up your
               | hands by a fire when you are halfway up a frozen
               | waterfall and having stiff or frostbitten fingers makes
               | climbing more difficult/dangerous.
        
           | cjbgkagh wrote:
           | One of many in a long list of evolved pesticides
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | Others are nicotine, caffeine and cocaine.
             | 
             | What else?
             | 
             | EDIT: and morphine!
        
               | mofunnyman wrote:
               | Those are resticides.
        
               | IIAOPSW wrote:
               | I don't care what you call it, if it ends in "ine" its
               | good enough for me.
        
               | tonymillion wrote:
               | Strychnine
               | 
               | side note: It kills you by making all your muscles tense
               | so strongly that you can't breath any more. The muscles
               | in your face tense in a way that it gives you whats
               | called a "Strychnine Smile".
        
               | aqme28 wrote:
               | >Strychnine Smile
               | 
               | Can also be caused by Tetanus
        
               | bregma wrote:
               | Or running for political office.
        
               | glenneroo wrote:
               | Or getting into a car accident:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIbotIsLJWw
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | That's probably the botox. Deadliest known substance.
        
               | tonymillion wrote:
               | Amphetamine Dopamine Ketamine
               | 
               | Now thats a party!
               | 
               | (and as I said in another reply) Strychnine
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | THC from the cannabis plant. It is a very long list
               | though, plants go to a great deal of effort to deter
               | pests so the list would be more limited by the subset of
               | plants that humans find useful to cultivate.
        
               | BurningFrog wrote:
               | Since species are both different and similar, I think it
               | makes sense that chemicals will affect different species
               | differently.
               | 
               | So what kills some animals will have mind altering
               | effects on others.
        
               | markdown wrote:
               | Kavalactones
        
               | cluckindan wrote:
               | Ephedrine, from ephedra.
               | 
               | Cathinone, from khat (Catha edulis)
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | It is also somewhat anti microbial, so it became useful for
           | food preservation. See: kimchi
        
             | cnity wrote:
             | Though you're right, in kimchi the primary preservative is
             | initially the saltiness and then later the low pH caused by
             | lactobacilli producing lactic acids.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | I don't dispute that. My understanding is that the
               | introduction of chili allowed a reduction in salt
               | content, which was important in an era where salt was
               | expensive to produce.
        
               | cnity wrote:
               | I didn't know that, that's really interesting thanks!
        
             | cyberax wrote:
             | You can make fermented cabbage without any hot peppers.
             | It's common in Slavic cultures.
        
               | dunham wrote:
               | I'm guessing it was common in Korea before chilis were
               | brought back from the americas.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | my understanding of the development was that chili was
               | used to cut the amount of salt, which wasn't cheap to
               | produce
        
               | neom wrote:
               | Chilli was introduced to Kimchi during the Imjin War. The
               | Portuguese had brought them to Japan perviously, as far
               | as I've seen all kimchi recipe prior to that is only
               | garlic heavy, I like that style of kimchi better
               | personally.
        
               | ssl-3 wrote:
               | It's common all over. Fermented cabbage is also called
               | sauerkraut.
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | Now I feel a need to spin up and emulator or something
               | capable of playing Castle Wolfenstein.
               | 
               | (Dear god, I'm showing my age there, aren't I?)
        
               | ssl-3 wrote:
               | What, the C64 game?
               | 
               | Whatever it is, I'm absolutely certain that it can be
               | launched in a few seconds on archive.org, with no special
               | software requirements besides the JavaScript interpreter
               | that a web browser already has, and that all of this can
               | happen even on your standard-issue pocket supercomputer.
               | 
               | (Every couple of years I fire up an Apple ][ version of
               | Oregon Trail on archive.org because even though we had a
               | PC at home way back when, that's the version I remember
               | playing in school. That game is still hard and I'm not
               | sure exactly what it is that it is supposed to teach
               | except that dysentery is evil.)
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | > What, the C64 game?
               | 
               | Apple][ in my case. Very early 80s, definitely before 83.
        
             | jorvi wrote:
             | Apparently (some) peppers are anti-inflammatory, which I
             | guess I have to accept the science of, but still disagree
             | with on an empirical level.
        
             | ssl-3 wrote:
             | [citation needed]
             | 
             | (My peppers ferment just find using microbes.)
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8042654/
               | 
               | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4643145/
               | 
               | https://www.ijrar.org/papers/IJRAR1944311.pdf
               | 
               | Antimicrobial doesn't necessarily mean it literally kills
               | everything.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | Reminds me of the theory that wheat domesticated humans.
        
             | fsckboy wrote:
             | driving down the road I was inspired to taste some fresh
             | wheat grains in a field: tasted a lot like flour. what is
             | that "thing"? an attractive tasty flour nodule? the energy
             | yolk to the seed's egg?
        
               | meindnoch wrote:
               | It's called endosperm. A bunch of starch that nourishes
               | the embryo when the seed germinates.
        
               | Diti wrote:
               | Speaking of sperm, it reminds me of that funny theory
               | about choanoflagellates:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38865865
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Basically, yes. Though wheat didn't look like that
               | initially. We've cultivated it to become like that over
               | thousands of years.
               | 
               | Same for corn (maize). There is no naturally occurring
               | plant that looks like what we've turned it into.
        
               | eru wrote:
               | Wild potatoes look pretty close to some domesticated
               | potatoes I had.
               | 
               | Also I had lots of wild berries (of various species) in
               | forests, and they look pretty much like the berries you
               | can find in a garden. (Though probably not like the
               | berries you can get in a supermarket?)
               | 
               | Wild grass also looks pretty much like some of the
               | domesticated variety. (Well, some varieties do.)
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Wild corn relatives, however, just look like most other
               | grass.
        
               | ASalazarMX wrote:
               | I picture your ancestors impulsively tasting mushrooms,
               | and figuring out which ones were not poisonous enough to
               | kill them. Thank you for your lineage!
               | 
               | In Mexico, our ancestors cultivated corn despite not
               | knowing fungicides to prevent mycotoxin contamination.
               | Somehow they discovered nixtamalization, which is boiling
               | corn in an alkaline solution that destroys mycotoxins and
               | improves nutritional value. Guess they really loved corn.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixtamalization
        
               | lawlessone wrote:
               | >Somehow they discovered nixtamalization, which is
               | boiling corn in an alkaline solution that destroys
               | mycotoxins and improves nutritional value.
               | 
               | that one always amazes me. How did they figure it out?
               | it's not exactly intuitive, especially when they wouldn't
               | have known about the chemistry underneath.
               | 
               | It would probably take weeks or months to notice if doing
               | A instead of B was making people sick or not
        
               | smegsicle wrote:
               | boiling corn in limestone pots makes it taste better
        
               | kjellsbells wrote:
               | It might not be that the process was discovered so much
               | as the method of cooking pot production happened to suit
               | the food being cooked.
               | 
               | In particular, lots of civilizations learned to
               | strengthen the basic clay pot by the addition of lime-y
               | things, eg burnt mussel shells. If all your pots are made
               | in this manner then you dont so much discover
               | nixtamalization as experience it only by its absence when
               | you meet settlers that have pellagra and dont use your
               | style of pot.
               | 
               | See [0] for a technical write up on this and many other
               | pot themes.
               | 
               | [0]
               | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/arcm.12986
        
               | simondotau wrote:
               | And also the tribes which used other pots didn't thrive
               | as much.
        
               | lukas099 wrote:
               | Maybe some people with sensitive stomachs are able to
               | detect things like this quicker than others. Further,
               | maybe the gene for a sensitive stomach confers a survival
               | advantage not just to the individual, but to relatives of
               | the individual (who can 'free ride' on their relative's
               | discerning stomach).
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | What fun to be the village poison tester because you've
               | got the most sensitive stomach.
        
               | pickledoyster wrote:
               | > your ancestors impulsively tasting mushrooms
               | 
               | There are other animals humans can observe instead of
               | impulsively risking their lives.
        
               | petesergeant wrote:
               | Sure, there _are_, but also don't underestimate humans...
               | 
               | > Nine young backpackers were rushed to hospital in the
               | west Australian city of Perth after snorting a drug they
               | mistook for cocaine. Three remain in critical condition
               | after *ingesting the mystery white powder which arrived
               | in the post addressed to someone else*
               | 
               | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-42563523
               | 
               | > The bystander states that the older man is a "death
               | with dignity" patient who invited loved ones to be
               | present while he consumed the [Medical Aid in Dying]
               | medication. After his first swallow, he remarked, "Man
               | that burns!" The younger man said, "Let me see," and then
               | also took a swallow.
               | 
               | https://www.jems.com/patient-care/emergency-medical-
               | care/dea...
        
               | sliken wrote:
               | If you have a few 100 people in an area literally
               | spending their waking hours worrying about having enough
               | food. Areas without enough of the right nutrients are
               | pretty common. People are pretty good at figuring out
               | what makes them feel better/healthier.
               | 
               | Some places are iron poor, some even resort to eating
               | dirt, especially when pregnant when you need more iron.
               | Some areas are salt poor and animals will go to extreme
               | measures to get to salt. Some areas have poor
               | bioavailability and require crushing, special cooking,
               | soaking, or a narrow range of acidity to be available,
               | which of course becomes the norm for cooking in those
               | areas. Some even become religious standards, things like
               | fish on fridays or avoiding pork (before trichinosis was
               | controlled).
        
               | nemosaltat wrote:
               | I was in Cape Cod for a wedding late last year with some
               | friends, and came across what we later learned was a Yew.
               | Some of us had popped into an ice cream shop, and one of
               | the members of my party apparently decided to eat a sweet
               | berry while they waited.
               | 
               | When we came out, we were initially incredulous but they
               | clarified that the flesh of the berry was sweet, but the
               | seed was disgustingly bitter. Which prompted the rest of
               | us to quickly do some research on what this plant was.
               | The mood was initially somewhat light-hearted, however
               | articles with titles like "Why is the Yew Berry sometimes
               | called the Death Berry?" had us on the phone with poison
               | control pretty quickly.
               | 
               | Poison control was very professional, and once they
               | confirmed that it was indeed a Yew Berry that had been
               | ingested, things got pretty serious. Apparently even
               | small doses can quickly cause irreversible heart failure,
               | with death the earliest "symptom" in some cases.
               | 
               | My friend didn't die-- just experienced some terror and
               | gastric distress-- the latter likely exacerbated by the
               | terror). No drugs or alcohol or involved, just an
               | impulsive decision, and a sobering reminder about the
               | fragility of life.
               | 
               | One of the other replies in this thread mentions
               | mushrooms. Which reminds of the aphorism: _There are old
               | mushroom foragers, and bold mushroom foragers, but there
               | are no old AND bold mushroom foragers._
        
               | klik99 wrote:
               | Yikes - I love foraging, but I am extremely conservative
               | about what I eat. This makes me thankful I'm not a bold
               | forager.
               | 
               | My friend has a running joke calling Yew poison berries,
               | but I never looked up the effects before. Great that you
               | called poison control.
        
               | ascorbic wrote:
               | Oh wow that was a journey. As soon as I saw "yew" I
               | started internally screaming.
               | 
               | The route that my kids walk to school took us underneath
               | a large yew tree, and the road underneath is often
               | covered in hundreds of delicious-looking pink berries.
               | Since they were tiny they have had to know all about how
               | yew berries look lovely but even one can kill you. What I
               | didn't ever tell them is how apparently the flesh is
               | actually not toxic and is tasty, and it's the seed that
               | will kill you.
        
               | drjasonharrison wrote:
               | The aril (the red flesh of the "berry" surrounding the
               | seed) is tasty, and not toxic. But the leaves, stems,
               | roots, and seeds are poisonous. Our elementary school has
               | evergreen yew bushes growing around it and I taught my
               | children not to eat the seeds. A fellow parent advised
               | use not to eat them because other children might not be
               | so careful.
        
               | TRiG_Ireland wrote:
               | Are yew rare where you are? Here in Ireland (and also in
               | Britain), they're traditionally found in churchyards
               | (where grazing livestock cannot get at them) and are well
               | known to be poisonous. (Agatha Christie used yew as a
               | poison in one of her novels.)
        
               | nemosaltat wrote:
               | I read this and thought; I sure hope so if I've made it
               | this far in life not knowing. I believe someone's
               | rectangle plant-identified this particular one as
               | European Yew (Taxus baccata). None of us had encountered
               | it before and this particular plants arils (thanks
               | drjason) were quite strikingly pink.
               | 
               | Apparently, there are others in North America, but mostly
               | not in the Southwest. I lived in the Pacific Northwest
               | about a decade ago which also has a yew (Taxus
               | brevifolia) but I don't recall if I ever saw the berries.
               | 
               | That said, most folks I know were raised with a baseline
               | of "don't eat random berries you don't recognize."
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | They're common in landscaping throughout the US. We had
               | some in our front yard, but us kids knew better than to
               | eat random berries. It's painful for me to think that
               | there are people out there without the common sense not
               | to eat random plants they don't recognize.
               | 
               | Folks visiting the desert and distractedly running
               | straight into octillos is just good entertainment.
               | There's not much on the east coast that prepares you for
               | a random shrub to be so hostile. Poisonous berries
               | though, they're everywhere. I'm surprised your fellows
               | made it to adulthood without basic suburban survival
               | skills.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | > It's painful for me to think that there are people out
               | there without the common sense not to eat random plants
               | they don't recognize.
               | 
               | I think it's understandable. I live in a city suburb and
               | the foliage around me is pretty much all non-toxic.
               | 
               | I was raised in a rural community and went camping often
               | so we had the lessons of "don't eat random shit, you'll
               | die" drummed into us.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Except for grass and most trees, suburban foliage is
               | often quite toxic. A lot of your ornamental plants are
               | poisonous. Think lilies, foxglove, Solomon's seal, and
               | all the excitement of morning glories. The basic
               | understanding that you don't eat anything you can't
               | identify as edible is important in the suburbs too.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | I don't disagree, but I'd say there's not really a big
               | problem with people or kids trying to eat flowers.
               | Foxglove and solomon's seal are dangerous but they also
               | don't grow where I'm at. Lilies and morning glory do grow
               | here, and they are also not terribly dangerous to humans
               | (without eating a lot of them.)
               | 
               | Where I'm at, particularly in the suburbs, there's a
               | distinct lack of things that are tempting to eat (like a
               | berry) and also poisonous.
        
               | taejo wrote:
               | The berries (but not the seeds!) are apparently edible,
               | and I have myself eaten _one_ without noticing any ill
               | effect. IIRC it was indeed the berries that were used in
               | the Agatha Christie novel, so apparently a mistake.
        
               | jcgrillo wrote:
               | Nightshade (atropa belladonna) is another one to watch
               | out for.
        
               | marbro wrote:
               | And, other nightshades such as tomatoes, bell peppers,
               | and goji berries contain lectins.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | I'd add hemlock in there in too. Both are plants you'll
               | see in parks in town. A toddler died here a few years ago
               | because his parent allowed him to play in the big plants
               | with the pretty white flowers. They don't look dangerous
               | and don't have to be eaten to be deadly. Breathing too
               | much pollen is enough, especially for a child.
               | 
               | I'm pretty confident with berries as I've got plenty of
               | experience, but I don't mess with wild carrot or even
               | elderberry as I don't feel I have the knowledge at this
               | point to make it worth the risk. There are just too many
               | lookalikes.
        
               | vintermann wrote:
               | This is an example that mushrooms unfairly get a bad rap
               | - there are much nastier things in the plant kingdom.
               | Some of them you don't even have to eat to get seriously
               | hurt by, and they're not even that rare (e.g. giant
               | hogweed)
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | > driving down the road I was inspired to taste some
               | fresh wheat grains in a field
               | 
               | Fun fact: The danger in eating raw cookie-dough isn't
               | primarily from fresh eggs (though they can have problems
               | too) but rather from the raw flour, which before cooking
               | may have a bunch of bacterial nastiness in it.
        
               | nkozyra wrote:
               | Raw flour is generally not pasteurized, it's true, but
               | most cookie dough mixes are.
               | 
               | The eggs are a far more likely vector for illness unless
               | you're making the cookies yourself from scratch.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | > most cookie dough mixes are
               | 
               | At least where I live, only a minority are advertised as
               | "ready to eat". It's more common to see the opposite, an
               | explicit warning that it must be cooked.
        
               | shermantanktop wrote:
               | That just puts a frisson of risk into your decision to
               | eat the raw dough, which wasn't a good idea to begin
               | with.
        
               | philsnow wrote:
               | You can easily pasteurize both eggs* and flour at home,
               | and make Cookie Dough That Won't Kill You (Nearly As
               | Quickly)
               | 
               | * with the right equipment
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | I assume "the right equipment" is "an oven", and "Cookie
               | Dough That Won't Kill You" is usually referred to as just
               | "cookies"? ;-)
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | You can microwave flour to make it safe without actually
               | cooking it.
               | 
               | Don't know about eggs, but some recipe sites claim it
               | works for them too.
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | microwaves cook eggs, throw some scrambled eggs in a
               | glass and into the microwave you get a very smooth
               | scrambled egg. Unpleasant generally but a lot of
               | coffeeshops do this for breakfast sandwiches.
               | 
               | Perhaps on a low setting?
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | https://www.thespruceeats.com/pasteurize-eggs-in-the-
               | microwa...
        
               | swiftcoder wrote:
               | You can pasteurise eggs with a basic sous vide setup.
               | Take any of those home sous vide circulators, set it to
               | 140 F, and once it's up to temperature put the eggs in
               | for 4 minutes...
        
               | account42 wrote:
               | > unless you're making the cookies yourself from scratch
               | 
               | This isn't the default assumption?
        
               | throwaway519 wrote:
               | Choking on the mixture is the main danger.
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | I wonder if that has a higher death rate than driving to
               | the store to buy it?
        
               | throwaway519 wrote:
               | Both probably higher than taking the subway to work.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | I feel like dividing the outcomes into just two buckets
               | of "direct cause of permanent death" versus "everything
               | else" isn't the ideal way to approach routine decisions
               | about what to eat. :p
               | 
               | ("This cardboard is unlikely to kill me, sooooo...")
        
               | eru wrote:
               | > ("This cardboard is unlikely to kill me, sooooo...")
               | 
               | Yeah, but it ain't much fun to eat, either?
        
               | bigiain wrote:
               | You just need to wrap it in spicy rodent tape...
        
             | looofooo0 wrote:
             | Well wheat co-evolved such that seeds stayed attached after
             | being ripe. Without humans resowing them, it would have
             | been impossible.
        
           | thayne wrote:
           | Being delicious to humans is a pretty good evolutionary
           | advantage. Although, not necessarily good for the longevity
           | of individuals of that species, see, for example, cattle.
        
         | nubinetwork wrote:
         | So you're saying that if I wanted to eat a lot of hot peppers,
         | I should just swallow them whole? Asking for a friend of
         | course...
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | That'll work the day you eat them. The day after however...
        
             | jbotz wrote:
             | It's called "the ring of fire".
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | This is potentially fatal. Do not attempt it.
        
         | foobiekr wrote:
         | I find that it is an effective rat repellent - a neighbor has a
         | rat colony they will not address - but while it was effective
         | for squirrels at first, they seem to have gotten over it, and
         | we now see them eating dropped seeds without any pause at all.
         | I think the first generation never overcame it but now they do
         | eat whatever the birds spill.
        
           | kylehotchkiss wrote:
           | Step 1: Buy poison station. Step 2: if poison station works
           | in your yard, fling exhibit over the fence to delegate pest
           | control duties to correct home
        
             | pfooti wrote:
             | Poisoned rats are eaten by owls and raptors, who then die
             | or move out of the neighborhood.
        
               | lobsterthief wrote:
               | There's a poison called Rat-X that only affects rodents.
               | It will affect squirrels though.
        
               | foobiekr wrote:
               | Rat-X isn't a poison and mostly doesn't work.
        
             | 1024core wrote:
             | Why poison an animal just trying to survive?
        
               | mauvehaus wrote:
               | Mice are cute as hell, but we have traps on the kitchen
               | counters (they come in in the fall) because they _shit
               | everywhere they walk_. It 's not as clear-cut as you make
               | it out to be.
        
               | kylehotchkiss wrote:
               | Because I do not want hantavirus. Their droppings spread
               | nasty diseases.
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | I have a deal with all of the animals. They stay out of
               | our houses, we leave them alone. We can't coexist in a
               | home with wild rodents for sanitary reasons. Thankfully,
               | at my home only ants don't get the memo and must be
               | poisoned at scale outside their favorite point of access.
               | 
               | (Spiders have a special deal: Just stay out of sight
               | while inside and we're gucci. But I'll just move them
               | outside because I see them as allies against the
               | insects.)
        
               | krisoft wrote:
               | I tried to make a similar deal with an ant colony. I was
               | even more lenient than you. Told them they can stay if we
               | split the rent on a per-capita basis. They failed to
               | caugh up the money though so had to poison them.
        
               | jcgrillo wrote:
               | If you poison them then they die in the walls or
               | somewhere you can't get to them and stink. Shooting is
               | the sporting method (a very low powered .177 air pistol
               | works well indoors if you take careful shots), but
               | trapping also works. You can make a trap guaranteed to
               | kill a rodent with a sheetrock bucket, a butter knife,
               | and a delicious morsel. Walking the plank is a much more
               | effective method of execution than the spring loaded
               | guillotine, no partial results.
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | Plauge.
        
               | Hendrikto wrote:
               | Sanitation and disease prevention. Traps are probably
               | better though.
        
             | foobiekr wrote:
             | Now you're killing other animals with the collateral
             | damage.
             | 
             | If you must use traps, use snap traps and take the
             | responsibility for cleanup.
        
           | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
           | Mint... it will grow like crazy and reodentia hate it. Catnip
           | is even better because it attracts cats.
           | 
           | https://www.evergreenseeds.com/do-mint-plants-keep-mice-
           | away...
        
             | mauvehaus wrote:
             | A mouse died in my plow truck this summer and the smell was
             | unreal. Like, thank god I got the power windows working
             | bad.
             | 
             | I was told that Irish Spring soap is minty enough to repel
             | mice. Based on the scratch/tooth marks in the bar I left in
             | the glovebox, it apparently isn't.
             | 
             | Next summer, I'll try something with peppermint oil.
             | Assuming I can get the transmission fixed for a reasonable
             | price. Not having reverse is proving to be a hassle.
        
               | jbotz wrote:
               | Pure essential peppermint oil definitely works as a
               | rodent repellent, even in very small quantities, although
               | the effect wears off pretty quickly (that's the thing
               | about essential oils, the essence is volatile). Plan to
               | reapply every 3-7 days. Btw. the reason it works that
               | that for rodents the sense of smell is primary, and mint
               | smell overpowers everything else, so in its presence they
               | are effectively blind.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Be careful with essential oils. In most cases the lethal
               | dose for an adult human is about 5 grams.
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | Do you drink your essential oils? Unless they're laced
               | with DMSO, I don't see how _five grams_ of the active
               | ingredient could be absorbed.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Drinking them is usually how fatal doses are reached,
               | yes. There isn't much risk topically, as you say, or by
               | inhalation. I have read in the literature of one fatality
               | from topical oil of wintergreen, I believe a teenaged
               | marathon runner who was treating her muscle pain. I don't
               | know if her preparation (an FDA-approved over-the-counter
               | patch from a mainstream pharmaceutical company, if I
               | recall) used DMSO or similar excipients. But such topical
               | fatalities are very unusual.
               | 
               | But we _are_ specifically discussing ingestion of non-
               | recommended substances here.
               | 
               | To correct a minor misconception that could arise from
               | your comment: essential oils do not _contain_ active
               | ingredients. They _are_ , generally speaking, the active
               | ingredient. Some, like oil of wintergreen, are an almost
               | pure compound, while others, like oil of peppermint, are
               | mixtures, but generally they do not contain inert or
               | nontoxic components.
               | 
               | One specific way that a fatal dose could be ingested is
               | if the person ingesting it had previously obtained
               | adulterated essential oils from an irresponsible drug
               | dealer, _containing_ an active ingredient but consisting
               | mostly of something like canola oil, and then switched to
               | a pure essential oil without realizing it.
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | I don't think people are ingesting peppermint oil to ward
               | off rats in a plow truck.
               | 
               | It really doesn't matter how you classify the active
               | ingredient ( _and there is absolutely an active
               | ingredient_ ). It's not getting absorbed in five gram
               | quantities unless you snort it, drink it, or apply a
               | stupid homeopathic topical with DMSO that penetrates the
               | skin.
               | 
               | Edit: you've edited your post several times since I've
               | made mine and I'm just not going to bother. There a dozen
               | everpresent household chemicals that are deadlier than
               | essential oils by a long shot. Nobody seems to have a
               | problem except the kids who eat Tide pods, and they
               | solved that with a zipper.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | People who are handling chemicals whose lethal dose is
               | less than a teaspoon need to understand the hazards
               | involved. That is as true of common household chemicals
               | like lye, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid as it is
               | for essential oils (though I would not describe any of
               | those three as "everpresent").
               | 
               | However, it is worth noting that _most_ household
               | chemicals have a much larger lethal dose (are much less
               | toxic) than commonplace essential oils! Such less-toxic
               | chemicals include not only Tide Pods, but also everything
               | else commonly used for laundry (even liquid bleach),
               | window-cleaning ammonia, kerosene, unleaded gasoline,
               | hair-bleaching-concentration hydrogen peroxide, most
               | paint thinners, and even industrial degreasers like
               | trisodium phosphate. I thought bleaching powder (calcium
               | hypochlorite) was an exception, but I just looked up its
               | LD50, and it 's 850mg/kg orl-rat. So the lethal dose for
               | an adult human is probably about 50 grams, which is an
               | order of magnitude less toxic than oil of peppermint.
               | 
               | (Lye, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid aren't _toxic_
               | per se. You can safely add unlimited quantities of them
               | to your food if they 're dilute enough. But in reasonably
               | concentrated forms they're _corrosive_ enough to cause
               | fatal injuries if ingested, even, potentially, at the
               | teaspoon quantities we 're talking about. Your mileage
               | may vary, though, and you may just end up permanently
               | maimed.)
               | 
               | It is possible that you don't appreciate just how small a
               | quantity five grams is, or you have a vastly exaggerated
               | idea of how dangerous commonplace household chemicals
               | are. I have no idea how you could get to a dozen. Are you
               | poisoning your rats with strychnine and sodium cyanide?
               | There are much safer options now, you know. Most people
               | stopped keeping those in their houses decades ago, even
               | in poor countries.
               | 
               | (Yes, I edited my comment, just as you did, because I
               | think it's important to make it a high-quality comment so
               | that people who read it are not misinformed.)
        
               | true_religion wrote:
               | For the record, 5 grams is a teaspoon worth, and it's
               | pretty easy to accidentally splash that around if you're
               | pouring something.
               | 
               | Essential oils aren't obviously caustic like bleach and
               | since it's food product someone might think that getting
               | a little in their mouth or food they'll eat is no big
               | deal.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Usually people don't transfer oils like oil of peppermint
               | by pouring, but rather drop by drop, a drop typically
               | being around 20mg. That is a fine quantity to put in your
               | mouth or your food. Turpentine (essential oil of pine
               | resin) is the main exception. If you have enough
               | essential oils in one place that splashing teaspoonfuls
               | is common, you need to take additional precautions,
               | probably at least a suitable respirator or active
               | ventilation.
        
               | hilbert42 wrote:
               | _" Lye, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid aren't toxic
               | per se. You can safely add unlimited quantities of them
               | to your food if they're dilute enough."_
               | 
               | Right. Decades ago when I was in highschool and learning
               | chemistry the chem teacher brought out reagent bottles of
               | HCl, HNO3, H2SO4 and NaOH (in soln.) which he intended us
               | students to smell and taste. He also had boxes of brand
               | new test tubes and he issued everyone with four thereof
               | for the demonstration/experiment which he insisted that
               | we wash thoroughly under running water despite them being
               | brand new.
               | 
               | His stated reasons were that as chemists that (a) we
               | needed to become familiar with these common reagents as
               | they were ubiquitous in chemistry labs and industry, and
               | (b) we needed to know and experience the acidity of acids
               | and to clearly distinguish them from the soapy character
               | of the alkali. He also had a more important motive that
               | I'll come to in a moment.
               | 
               | He then diluted the reagents to a safe level (I think it
               | was about 1/40 Normal but I can't remember for sure).
               | Then we students all lined up and he poured a few ml of
               | each of the reagents into our test tubes for us to first
               | smell then taste, which we all did.
               | 
               | Afterwards when we were all back in the tiered seats of
               | the demonstration lab he made a statement in the sternest
               | tone that shocked the wits out of lot of us:
               | 
               |  _" You're all dead!"_
               | 
               | --long silent pause--
               | 
               |  _" Don't you ever do that again. You don't know whether
               | the reagents are true to label, for all you know I could
               | have given you poison and you'd be none the wiser until
               | it was too late. And even if the bottles are true to
               | label then you've still no idea how pure they are--they
               | may contain impurities that are highly toxic."_
               | 
               | He then went on to point out that these bottles of
               | reagents were new and that he'd unsealed them in front of
               | us and asked if anyone of us had noticed that.
               | 
               | He then pointed to print on the label that said BP--
               | British Pharmacopeia grade and then to the assay list of
               | impurities which were many decimal places below one
               | percent (the minutest of a trace).
               | 
               | This chemistry lesson was by far the most important one
               | we ever learned--nothing at university was ever the equal
               | of it.
               | 
               | It's a great tragedy that these days health and safety
               | rules preclude students from ever participating in such a
               | demonstration. Students must be taught not to fear
               | chemicals but nevertheless to treat them with care and
               | great respect lest they bite.
               | 
               | These days much of society has an almost irrational fear
               | of chemicals despite the widespread teaching of
               | chemistry. That tells me there's something terribly wrong
               | with the way we teach the subject--a matter that I've
               | covered on HN previously.
        
               | jcgrillo wrote:
               | Plowing without reverse is a sport I'd pay to watch lol
        
               | mauvehaus wrote:
               | I promise it's not as exciting as you're imagining.
               | Getting the truck back _out_ of the snow bank, on the
               | other hand, would probably be amusing in a schadenfreude
               | sort of way. Lacking traction (because winter), we used a
               | lot of momentum. It was pretty undignified.
        
           | dunham wrote:
           | In my previous house, I had mice get into a bag of gochugaru,
           | so I guess some mice can tolerate it. For squirrels, I've
           | only sprinkled it on the ground to keep them from digging up
           | my garlic cloves.
        
             | doubletwoyou wrote:
             | for those unaware like I might've been, gochugaru is Korean
             | red pepper powder
        
               | natebc wrote:
               | .. and it turns Kewpie mayonnaise into a godlike
               | substance.
        
         | adamrezich wrote:
         | Not a good deer repellant, though--at least for the mule deer
         | around here. My mom once sprayed some plants she had to prevent
         | the local pests from eating them, but instead, they just ate
         | the plants anyway, and then proceeded to shit all over the yard
         | everywhere.
        
           | intrasight wrote:
           | >shit all over the yard everywhere
           | 
           | They do that in any case
        
             | adamrezich wrote:
             | It was particularly messy in this case.
        
         | gkoberger wrote:
         | If the above comment was interesting to you... you might really
         | like the YouTube video "The truth about Hot Ones sauces"! It
         | goes into this theory, along with how spice levels are
         | measured.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dutpBSKj8JY
        
         | jasonpeacock wrote:
         | Yep, you can get spicy bird food which completely eliminates
         | squirrel, rat, rabbit, racoon, and other issues with your bird
         | feeders:
         | 
         | https://order.wbu.com/shop/bird-food/hot-pepper
         | 
         | It's a game changer, it's the only bird food that I use now.
        
           | natebc wrote:
           | Your squirrels are wimps. I use WBU's no-mess spicy version
           | ... Squirrels have little problem with it. Every now and then
           | one will bounce around a bit after eating it but they still
           | come every day.
        
         | throwawaymaths wrote:
         | > capsaicin
         | 
         | they have no heat receptors?? capsaicin literally triggers the
         | ion channel for thermosensing.
        
           | burnished wrote:
           | Probably a different channel that isn't triggered by
           | capsaicin
        
           | sitharus wrote:
           | Capsaicin binds to TRPV1 receptors, which are mammal-
           | specific. Other animals have different proteins in this role
           | and birds in particular are not sensitive to it. Also TVRP1
           | is only triggered by temperatures over 43degC, lower
           | temperatures are sensed by other proteins.
           | 
           | Capsaicin isn't just effective on mammals, it also has an
           | effect on some fungi and insects, though mostly through
           | metabolic disruption.
        
             | throwawaymaths wrote:
             | Thanks!!
        
           | widforss wrote:
           | Have you seen birds swimming in the winter? Doubt they care
           | much about temperature. /s
        
         | sargun wrote:
         | Where does the capsaicin go? How much ends up in the bird's
         | blood, egg, and muscles?
        
           | jbotz wrote:
           | It gets metabolised. No you can't make Chili Chicken by
           | feeding chilies to the chicken before killing and cooking it.
        
         | afpx wrote:
         | The fox population has grown a lot near me. I often have a
         | couple foxes sleeping in my back yard at night. I used to have
         | a major squirrel problem, but The foxes ate them all.
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | We have coyotes around in DFW. Not too many in the urban core
           | areas (mid-century suburbs), so the squirrel are rampant. Out
           | in the exurbs (more recent suburbs), the coyote population is
           | high enough I practically never see a squirrel.
           | 
           | Granted - the older areas have more mature oak, pecan, and
           | other nut producing trees too. But there should be some
           | squirrels out in the exurbs and I never see any. I've spent
           | some significant time out there too. They have more rabbits
           | than I see intown, which I imagine is the coyotes main food
           | source.
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | Can I get bird seeds that the birds hate and then they stay
         | away from my balcony because of bad associations?
        
           | natebc wrote:
           | Just get a fake owl.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | The birds near me either become friends with it, or shit
             | all over it.
        
         | jader201 wrote:
         | I need a good bird repellent for windows.
         | 
         | We eventually took our feeder down after birds kept crashing
         | into our windows near the feeder.
         | 
         | I can only assume they were trying to get to "the other bird
         | feeder".
         | 
         | It was great while it lasted, though. We -- and our cats --
         | loved watching them crowd around the feeder to enjoy some seed.
        
           | olyjohn wrote:
           | At my house, they crash into the windows because they are so
           | damn aggressive. They see themselves in the reflection and
           | attack the other bird. They shat all over my cars this year
           | because they kept seeing themselves in the side view mirrors.
           | Then shat all over the back of my car because it has a chrome
           | bumper. I have watched robins sit on the side of my car for
           | an hour just attacking the sideview mirror over and over.
           | They regularly crash into the one window in my house that has
           | a tree next to it, because they land in the branches, then
           | decide to attack the other bird in the reflection. They will
           | sit there for hours doing this until they finally hit the
           | window hard enough to scare themselves off.
        
           | mrspuratic wrote:
           | I've used the UV reflective "anti-collision" stickers with
           | reasonable success. You can get discrete (to humans) ones
           | that look like etched bird silhouettes. Just make sure to put
           | them on the _outside_.
        
         | jcoby wrote:
         | Squirrels kept trying to get my squirrel proof bird feeder and
         | then they'd get mad and chew on the furniture when they
         | couldn't get the seed. And they'd poop in the rails because
         | they're squirrels.
         | 
         | I smeared some Last Dab on the bird feeder support and cayenne
         | on the furniture and railings and haven't seen a squirrel
         | since.
        
         | unnamed76ri wrote:
         | How exactly did plants find this chemical irritant?
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Survival of the fittest. One plant was a tiny tiny bit more
           | spicy by freak chance and it did a little better than the
           | others, over many years..
           | 
           | Probably.
        
           | bun_at_work wrote:
           | Using a random walk algorithm through genetic space over
           | millions (or billions) of years.
        
         | rtkwe wrote:
         | I friend of mine got that and spilled it in their house and I
         | had me coughing the whole time I was over there till they were
         | able to air it out so be careful if you're handling it indoors
         | some people get got by it worse than others.
        
         | RachelF wrote:
         | >birds have no receptors for capsaicin, while mammals do.
         | 
         | True. I suspect it is only placental mammals. Brush-tailed
         | possums (a marsupial mammal) do not seem repelled by it at all.
         | I've had my birds eyes and Carolina Reaper chilly plants and
         | fruit eaten by them.
        
           | msrenee wrote:
           | I'm seeing quite a few websites suggesting cayenne pepper to
           | keep Virginia Opossums out of your plants. I've never tried
           | it myself, but that's a marsupial that appears to not like
           | spicy food. The only species coming up in these increasingly
           | useless search engine results as liking spicy food is Chinese
           | tree shrews.
           | 
           | I'm getting so frustrated anymore trying to use google, bing,
           | brave search, startpage, etc for finding anything except
           | reddit or quora answers and business pages. If you find any
           | more info on marsupials and peppers, I'd love to see it. It's
           | a super interesting question.
        
         | timewizard wrote:
         | > Mammals, on the other hand, have teeth
         | 
         | Chewing is also an imperfect process. Mammals, and I can tell
         | you this personally and with some disdain, sometimes pass seeds
         | as well.
         | 
         | > found a chemical irritant that repels the mammals
         | 
         | Deer, and I can tell you this personally and with some disdain,
         | seem to love peppers as much as we do. They're also harder to
         | keep out of your yard.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | > Chewing is also an imperfect process. Mammals, and I can
           | tell you this personally and with some disdain, sometimes
           | pass seeds as well.
           | 
           | That's how you get poop coffee.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_luwak
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | > They also illustrate the evolution of this
         | 
         | One of my pet-peeves: Certain science fiction writers (often
         | amateur) posit that humans will _greatly impress_ aliens with
         | our willingness--no, _zeal_ --to consume capsaicin, a terrible
         | death substance all sentient races flee from etc.
         | 
         | This is nonsense since it's basically an narrowly targeted
         | false-alarm trick between relatively closely related creatures.
         | It's not acidic, caustic, corrosive, etc.
         | 
         | > this protein
         | 
         | Just to head off the ambiguous phrasing here: Capsaicin itself
         | is not a protein, but a much simpler kind of chemical.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylpropanoid
        
         | scubbo wrote:
         | > I've used one such treatment
         | 
         | What brand? I've been wanting to figure out a squirrel
         | deterrant for my bird feeder, and personal recommendations are
         | always greatly preferred to ads.
        
         | jongjong wrote:
         | It's wild to think that plants are engaged in this constant
         | struggle to produce seeds that have an outer shell that is just
         | strong enough not to be consistently dissolved in a bird's
         | stomach but not so strong that they won't ever dissolve.
         | 
         | One one hand, some seeds must survive passing through the
         | bird's digestive system intact to later grow into a plant, on
         | the other hand, some seeds must be digested in order to keep
         | the birds interested in consuming that seed... Alternatively, a
         | bird species interested in eating indigestible seeds may become
         | extinct due to malnutrition.
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | Then what do we do if we want to repel birds, especially
         | pigeons.
        
           | lloeki wrote:
           | There's some products that you spray and it's supposed to
           | give them a nasty headache and then they learn and stop
           | coming. It gave me headaches as well though.
           | 
           | Contrary to what the internets want you to believe, there are
           | bird murder machines called "cats", which seems to skip most
           | of the "learning" and the "headache" part.
        
         | dweekly wrote:
         | Wait, I want to see video of the squirrel bungee now...
        
           | Eduard wrote:
           | maybe they mean the "Squngee Squirrel Feeder"
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/Ao6T-atMSYU
        
         | 14 wrote:
         | I can not remember the tree or plant and the following is only
         | my best recollection and may be slightly incorrect, couldn't
         | reach my dad to ask, he told me about a plant and I forget if
         | it had basically been eradicated possibly to human harvesting
         | and was unique to a region if I remember correctly and it was
         | believed to be gone. But then some seeds were found and they
         | tried to germinate them but continually failed. As I remember
         | what he told me was that someone going through some ancient
         | writings or paintings and it showed the tree and birds eating
         | from it. He then said the person had the idea to feed the seed
         | to a bird and see if it did anything. Apparently it was
         | successful and he was able to grow this lost plant/tree what
         | ever it was. The whole story sounds far fetched but my dad is
         | not a bullshitter he would have seen it on some history channel
         | or similar. Looking up birds eating seeds and germination
         | explains that the digestive enzymes in a birds stomach can help
         | break down the hard outer coating on some seeds helping
         | germination. I will ask him when I can and report back if I can
         | verify anything he said.
         | 
         | As for spicy peppers funny to me story. I grew a Carolina
         | Reaper plant last summer and the plant did well and I got
         | something like 200 peppers from it. Of course I had to know
         | what it felt like so me my dad and my 13 year old son tried
         | them. We all threw a big chunk in our mouths chewed for about 5
         | seconds and spat it out.
         | 
         | The pain was basically instant. It was at about 2 seconds I
         | knew this was not going to be good. It was insanely hot which
         | lasted about half an hour, the entire time me running my mouth
         | under the tap or putting ice on it, trying crackers and milk,
         | even tried to wash my tongue. Some how my son after about 5
         | minutes very calmly says can I go have a shower. He was hardly
         | bothered by the pepper.
         | 
         | Funny thing happened couple weeks later. I was telling my
         | friend how insane these peppers were. He then asks if he can
         | have some as he has a bear knocking over his garbage every
         | night and wants to leave some for the bear to eat and hopefully
         | encourage it to stop. So he makes a burrito and fills it with 5
         | or 6 nice sized reapers and leaves it out before bed. Well
         | middle of the night his phone dings and his outside camera
         | detected motion. Fires up the video and what does he see, not
         | the bear but some stray dog walking the neighborhood run up and
         | down the thing in a couple bites. Oh man I hope that dog didn't
         | suffer too bad when it came out the other end.
        
           | buildsjets wrote:
           | It might be on the list of plants at
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_taxon ?
           | 
           | Of that list, we have a Metasequoia / Dawn Redwood tree in
           | our yard, it's great fast-growing shade tree with deciduous
           | leaves that are so small you don't need to rake them. Thought
           | to be extinct, re-discovered in China in 1944, availability
           | in nurseries is pretty good.
        
         | znort_ wrote:
         | _Mammals that eat seeds grind them apart orally before even
         | swallowing. As a result, any seeds ingested by mammals are very
         | likely to be completely destroyed._
         | 
         | not really true, mastication isn't practiced to perfection in
         | the wild, which is why you might often see seeds right on the
         | poop. a portion of them get distributed intact.
        
         | javea71 wrote:
         | Ok but how did the plant know that is wasn't being successfully
         | spread by mammals..
        
       | hollywood_court wrote:
       | Land Rover/Jaguar could benefit from this tape.
       | 
       | Rodents love chewing on the electrical harnesses in these
       | vehicles.
       | 
       | When I ran an import repair shop, my clients owned over 100
       | Jaguar sedans, and every single one of them was towed in at some
       | point due to rodent-damaged wiring. While the problem wasn't as
       | severe with Land Rovers, we still had more than 40 of them towed
       | in each year for the same issue.
        
         | tim333 wrote:
         | In one of my previous flats we had rats and mice which we
         | ignored - my flatmate was jain so very live and let live -
         | until one day I turned the cooker on and there was a huge bang
         | - they'd gnawed off the insulation on the power cables.
         | 
         | I didn't know about chillies but it might have helped.
        
         | _moof wrote:
         | It's a big problem in old airplanes too. I've known a few
         | pilots who found out their nav lights (on the wingtips) weren't
         | working anymore because a mouse got inside the wing.
        
         | fatnoah wrote:
         | I had a Subaru that required over $1000 in labor replace a $13
         | master wiring harness that was chewed by a rodent.
         | 
         | Of course, nothing will beat having a rodent die somewhere in
         | the engine, and not noticing it until exiting the car after a
         | 45 minute highway ride and making my in-laws neighborhood smell
         | like someone barbecued rotten meat.
        
       | mythrwy wrote:
       | We had trouble with deer mice eating car wiring.
       | 
       | I found this spray at the feed store that looked to be a sort of
       | small outfit based on the label. It was hot pepper extract,
       | diesel, glycerin, a few other ingredients. Worked really well.
       | But then it disappeared so I made my own.
       | 
       | I bought a few bags of dried cayenne peppers, crushed them and
       | soaked them in acetone (no I didn't care if the mice got cancer
       | at that point). Then filtered and discarded the remaining pepper
       | chunks and let the acetone evaporate in a pan outside. I then got
       | a few glycerin suppositories from the pharmacy and mixed with
       | kerosene, the pepper extract and a little peppermint oil and had
       | my own spray. A few times a year I spray down the engine blocks
       | and wiring harnesses and we haven't had an issue since.
        
       | sitkack wrote:
       | > It smelled like a Band-Aid-flavored Rockstar Energy drink. It
       | tasted like...heat. The capsaicin was subtler than I expected:
       | nothing abrasive or punishing, just a blushing, ambient warmth
       | like a string of white Christmas lights. There was almost a
       | numbing, mala element, in the vein of a Sichuan peppercorn.
        
       | wiether wrote:
       | The topic, the style...
       | 
       | Love it!
       | 
       | Just someone having fun doing something stupid and sharing it
       | with the world.
        
       | ielillo wrote:
       | I remember reading that rodents chewed car cables since the
       | insulation was made using the same compound as soy and that
       | attracted them, but in reality it was just they liked chewing on
       | stuff. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a21933466/does-your-car-
       | ha...
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | I just read that article and it doesn't appear to agree with
         | your conclusion. That was just a single quote from a a pest
         | control guy who works for Orkin.
         | 
         | The article does say that car owners and mechanics have noted a
         | large increase in rodent damage to car wiring with the new soy-
         | based insulation while manufacturers have denied any
         | connection. Likely because they are fighting several class-
         | action lawsuits over it.
        
         | michaelmior wrote:
         | In my case, I was told it was because the rubber was made using
         | peanut oil. I had a squirrel chew through one of the O2 sensors
         | on my car.
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | I had a car once that a chipmunk or mouse decided to give birth
       | in. The car wasn't used often but as fate would have it the
       | litter was born somewhere in the engine and when we went for a
       | short trip they were all killed. This was not noticed until the
       | stench of their decomposition wafted into the vehicle a week or
       | so after the fact. Again, the car wasn't used often.
       | 
       | The shop removed the mangled bodies, replaced all the air filter
       | components, etc. It took a few months for traces of the scent to
       | finally dissipate. Or maybe we got used to it?
       | 
       | Regardless, the car sold a couple years later. My next car was
       | new.
        
       | zehaeva wrote:
       | I love humans. You all are so weird, wild, and wonderful.
       | 
       | I'm also inspired to use capsaicin to fight my personal fight
       | with some squirrels that feel the _need_ to live in my garage.
       | They ignore all my humane traps and are chill with all the light
       | and sound disruptions I put in there.
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | At least squirrel droppings aren't a hantavirus vector (right?)
        
       | the_sleaze_ wrote:
       | > This is the Haterade promise: I will only ever use your money
       | irresponsibly.
       | 
       | 10/10
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | I thought rodents like engines because they're warm. Isn't that
       | what attracts them to those spots in the first place?
        
         | magneticnorth wrote:
         | Yes? And while they're there, you don't want them to chew on
         | the wires.
         | 
         | You can't prevent your engine from being warm (assuming you
         | need to use your vehicles), but you can make it less appealing
         | to gnaw on the nice chewy parts of it.
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | That makes sense. I was reading some of the comments and
           | thought people were implying that rodents seek out wiring as
           | a food source.
        
             | jcgrillo wrote:
             | They do[1].
             | 
             | [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a21933466/does-your-
             | car-ha...
        
         | mangamadaiyan wrote:
         | Rodents chewing through cables is a problem even in latitudes
         | closer to the equator, where it can get hot enough that they
         | don't (need to) seek an engine for its warmth.
        
       | biscuits1 wrote:
       | If I could upvote this article twice, I would.
        
         | jfultz wrote:
         | Fortunately for me, you left this comment, so I upvoted the
         | article and your comment. Which kind of scratches the same
         | itch.
        
       | wsh wrote:
       | The manufacturer's product page, with a link to the MSDS:
       | 
       | https://www.teraokatape.co.jp/english/products/class/class00...
       | 
       | Data sheet describing the "rat prevention effect":
       | 
       | https://www.teraokatape.co.jp/english/products/Rat_Preventio...
        
         | Lanzaa wrote:
         | Those links are dead.
         | 
         | Correct link to "Rodent-proof vinyl adhesive tape No. 347":
         | 
         | https://www.teraokatape.co.jp/english/products/rodent-proof-...
        
           | wsh wrote:
           | Both links worked earlier, but they don't work for me now,
           | either.
           | 
           | Anyway, the data sheet explains how the manufacturer tested
           | the tape's effectiveness with rats. The Wayback Machine has a
           | copy:
           | 
           | https://web.archive.org/web/20201017204509/https://www.terao.
           | ..
        
       | anoncow wrote:
       | From 2021. Fun read.
        
       | geephroh wrote:
       | Dunno if it would have helped this poor guy:
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/30/squirrel-tr...
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | Also effective: petroleum-based plastics for the wiring
       | insulation.
       | 
       | Some squirrels chewed on my add-on wiring harness in my pickup
       | back when it was parked outside (this the thanks I get for hard
       | braking when they run across the road in my neighborhood) but
       | never touched the vehicle's wiring harness. Why? Because the
       | vehicle was built in 2009 and used old formulations instead of
       | the new plastics with tasty bits in their formulas.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | You are repeating FUD. There is no soy in the final plastic.
         | 
         | The plastic is derived from soy that serves as a cheap source
         | of organic molecules, but it's converted into polymers no
         | different from petroleum based plastics.
         | 
         | Did you know that most wall paint is made from corn? It's hyper
         | processed into latex.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | There's something. Little guys could have more easily chewed
           | on the harness for my trailer hitch, for example, or the main
           | harness - thankfully they didn't, it might have totaled the
           | vehicle - but went for the new stuff.
           | 
           | There's enough anecdotal evidence to warrant a real
           | experiment on whether rodentia prefer new plastics over old.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >You are repeating FUD. There is no soy in the final plastic.
           | 
           | Did the parent edit his comment? I don't see any mention
           | about soy, only "tasty bits".
        
           | scythe wrote:
           | From page 12:
           | 
           | https://www.judicialhellholes.org/wp-
           | content/uploads/2016/01...
           | 
           | >This soy-based insulated wiring was touted as being more
           | "environmentally friendly" due to, _inter alia_ , the
           | biodegradable nature of the soy-based insulation as compared
           | to traditional plastic insulation.
           | 
           | While it is no doubt possible to process biochemicals into
           | petrochemical-equivalent synthetic polymers, it appears that
           | at least one law firm doesn't believe that happened here. And
           | they go on to claim that Honda had claimed they were using
           | biodegradable insulation, which a traditional wire generally
           | is not.
        
           | teslabox wrote:
           | My dad lost two sets of sparkplug wires to pack rats [0],
           | circa 2016-2017. I recall him sharing that the auto store
           | staff told him the bioplastics used to insulate the wires
           | tastes like peanuts. He switched to a different brand, and
           | didn't lose another set.
           | 
           | Searching now I found this website about the soy-based wire
           | problem: https://www.howtopreventratsfromeatingcarwires.com/2
           | 017/02/1...
           | 
           | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42074028
        
           | sumea wrote:
           | Maybe it is mostly FUD, but it does not mean it is
           | impossible. Yes, soy-based plastics are very processed, but
           | it does not mean that the end product has no impurities that
           | "smell" like soy. Rodents have very sensitive smell and some
           | can even detect landmines. Also, plastics made solely from
           | biomaterial or with bio-based components (e.g. plasticizers)
           | are not (always) chemically exactly similar to petroleum-
           | based plastics.
           | 
           | I found one research article from 2020 titled "Assessing
           | Rodent Gnawing of Elastomers Containing Soybean Oil
           | Derivatives". It did not find statistically significant
           | difference in rodents gnawing when soy oil derivates were
           | added to plastics. Maybe they have found a way to remove the
           | tasty components.
           | 
           | https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.0c05868
        
           | jcgrillo wrote:
           | Then why do the rodents only eat wires on new vehicles? This
           | is a recent phenomenon, like within the last ~15yr of vehicle
           | manufacturing. Cars and equipment older than that don't get
           | their wires chewed up.
           | 
           | Source: talking to auto mechanics and people who operate
           | fleets of construction equipment.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | Rodents have been eating the wires of cars forever. This is
             | not a recent phenomenon. All of my 6 cars range from
             | 1980-2000 and most of them have had an infestation at one
             | point or another and I have repaired chewed wires in a
             | couple of them. I've heard soooooo many stories from old
             | people of mice getting into cars and eating wiring, it's
             | been a problem since we've had cars.
        
               | jcgrillo wrote:
               | Interesting, I've had rodents eat fiberglass and
               | fiberboard materials in my cars but never wiring.
        
       | ceroxylon wrote:
       | "That is a pervert's question."
       | 
       | This whole article seems to be revolving around getting
       | engagement and being verbose, they could have just said "rodent
       | repelling tape exists and they put spice in it" and I would have
       | received the same message.
        
         | InsideOutSanta wrote:
         | If George Carlin had just told me what the seven words were, I
         | could have saved myself 40 minutes watching his show.
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | The seven dirty programming languages: perl haskell cobol
           | brainfuck basic java c
           | 
           | The seven dirty programming paradigms: imperative centralized
           | mutable static object-oriented loosely-typed globals
        
             | InsideOutSanta wrote:
             | Phew, I can still say PHP on TV.
        
           | sans_souse wrote:
           | Alexa; summarize my entire life into the smallest possible
           | size, and then read it back to me. In monotone.
        
         | booleandilemma wrote:
         | I remember when Python developers used to have a sense of
         | humor.
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | It's not supposed to be informative, it's supposed to be funny.
         | 
         | And while I'll readily accept that funniness is in the eye of
         | the beholder, in my case it achieved its intended effect. I
         | also read some other blog posts of the same author, and she
         | seems consistently funny!
        
         | 542354234235 wrote:
         | The message is the humor and the entertaining writing.
        
       | mcny wrote:
       | > Plus, my head wouldn't fit beneath the manifold.
       | 
       | I love the funny idea that they tried
        
       | Shank wrote:
       | I'm sure the reasoning behind this is that it just has to
       | discourage, and therefore the capsaicin amount is low enough to
       | do that, but also cheap enough to manufacture in tape format and
       | sell at a markup.
       | 
       | What I'm more interested in is...does this actually work? Could
       | you put this tape on things in your house that could actually be
       | targets for rats? On random pantry items? On your siding?
        
       | donaldihunter wrote:
       | Rodents nibble (and destroy) _everything_ plastic adjacent in my
       | garage. I guess it's time for high-scoville countermeasures.
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | Or seal the garage, trap and poison them, and keep
         | accumulations of cozy nesting material to a minimum.
        
       | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
       | The world needs more people like her!
        
       | lolc wrote:
       | Funny read. There could be a huge difference between licking the
       | tape and chewing the tape. Which I guess is why they found it to
       | be mildly spicy and not hellishly spicy.
        
       | gradschool wrote:
       | I wouldn't have expected tape infused with capsaicin to have any
       | deterrent effect on mice given Mousetrap Monday's video evidence
       | to the contrary [1]. Is it possible that the high price of the
       | tape mentioned in the article isn't entirely justified?
       | 
       | [1] https://youtu.be/LBWskgp-G00
        
       | brie22 wrote:
       | Would this be a good deterrent for cats? One of my cats has
       | gnawed through several USB cables too in range to its mouth,
       | destroying keyboards, webcams, ... Would be wonderful if so!
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | You can often cut off the frayed ends and splice the wires back
         | together. There's usually only 4-5 wires in there and they're
         | color coded so they're simple to match back up.
        
       | mv4 wrote:
       | I enjoyed reading this.
        
       | noman-land wrote:
       | This is delightful, and hilarious. The bloody mary rimmed with
       | spicy mouse tape made me lol. This is a creative mind here.
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | I fear that the Spicy Rodent Tape Challenge will be the next
       | Tiktok-propelled viral social media thing.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7d4gHBjA5NU
       | 
       | Someone who actually tasted it and gave a review of the tape.
       | 
       | Jerry rig everything.
        
         | booleandilemma wrote:
         | I notice the article predates this video by a few years.
         | Clearly Liz Cook was tasting Honda's Spicy Tape before it was
         | cool.
        
       | mthamil wrote:
       | I love Liz Cook, she's one of the best food writers around.
        
       | giarc wrote:
       | That's one of the best blog posts I've read in a while. It nails
       | the idea of "write one line that makes the reader want to read
       | the next". It's humorous but also serious. There's no fluff.
       | Instant subscribe.
        
         | taurknaut wrote:
         | Damn I could have gotten the "no fluff" version by looking at
         | wikipedia or just googling.
         | 
         | Why do people expect their non-fiction reading to be
         | entertaining? That's not the point and I inherently don't trust
         | your judgement if that's what you're looking for. At some point
         | you've got to provide insight.
        
           | NoboruWataya wrote:
           | > At some point you've got to provide insight.
           | 
           | Why though? Seinfeld had nine seasons of no insight and it
           | did okay.
        
             | taurknaut wrote:
             | I can't say I've ever watched much seinfeld, but Curb Your
             | Enthusiasm regularly has stimulating social insights.
        
           | devilbunny wrote:
           | I read entertaining nonfiction all the time. Not everything
           | has to be an algebra textbook. Try Ben Macintyre if you like
           | spy/war stories.
        
           | sangnoir wrote:
           | Wikipedia won't inform me about the social media and email
           | dynamics at a car manufacturer. Just the email response alone
           | was entertaining and informative: self-aware humor-encrusted
           | legalese that is very human. I can appreciate it for what it
           | is: great PR work from a professional. Wikipedia is pretty
           | humorless, it probably wouldn't even acknowledge the subtext.
        
             | taurknaut wrote:
             | I can't say I care without any recourse to remediation.
        
           | papertokyo wrote:
           | But would you have thought to research how a specific car
           | manufacturer's spicy anti-rodent tape tasted in the first
           | place?
           | 
           | There's an element of discovery in this article, as well as
           | being entertaining and informative. Her writing is--
           | subjectively and objectively--uncommonly good.
        
             | taurknaut wrote:
             | I just don't care. I hate my car. I resent relying on it.
             | Whether it works or not is something for my employer to
             | care about.
        
               | sparky_z wrote:
               | I would gently suggest that you are simply not in natural
               | audience for a blog post like this, and that's okay.
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | I hate cars but I enjoyed this post. The author is a food
               | critic, the post has very little to do with cars.
        
               | zubairshaik wrote:
               | It's not the hating cars part that makes this article
               | unsuitable to this commenter. It's the way they
               | responded.
        
               | ddejohn wrote:
               | This is one of those times where "I bet you're fun at
               | parties" is a perfectly justified response to the (G?)GP
               | [1]. This story is funny, well-written, succinct. Liz
               | would be a hit at parties. GP would not be invited again.
               | 
               | [1] do we prepend great- when referring to parent
               | comments more than two levels (GP) up? Or do we just say
               | GP and rely on context?
        
               | taurknaut wrote:
               | What is the sort of person who is in this audience?
        
               | patcon wrote:
               | Anyone who likes a story for its own sake
        
               | cooper_ganglia wrote:
               | Probably people who aren't miserable, antagonistic,
               | contrarian, and argumentative!
        
           | scubbo wrote:
           | "Informative" and "entertaining" are both valid goals for
           | non-fiction writing (and, indeed, fiction writing, if you
           | squint enough to recognize that it can convey "information
           | about how people think/feel/act"). Arguably, the ideal would
           | be to achieve both; but, achieving either is perfectly fine.
           | 
           | Most non-fiction aims to inform, and most fiction aims to
           | entertain, but either can do either.
        
             | schneems wrote:
             | There's a reason that storytelling is so powerful: The best
             | information delivery is one you'll remember. The two have a
             | synergistic effect.
        
           | cka wrote:
           | It's entertaining when reading is entertaining. This was a
           | great "read while eating lunch at work" read because it was
           | entertaining.
           | 
           | I didn't really care too much about rodent-repelling tape
           | before reading and don't care much now. It was the
           | entertaining writing that brought value for me.
        
           | bean-weevil wrote:
           | I can't believe you just called a blogpost about eating
           | rodent repellent "nonfiction reading"!
        
             | lmm wrote:
             | It's very much nonfiction. She really did lick the tape!
        
             | taurknaut wrote:
             | ...why not? Is this inaccurate?
        
           | tiagod wrote:
           | There isn't that much to know about this tape. It's just a
           | spicy tape, and it's probably not very toxic. "The point"
           | here is the story - the tweets and emails, the thought
           | process.
           | 
           | I really liked it, and clearly a lot of people here liked it
           | too! You're free to dislike it, but that doesn't make it
           | pointless. There's more to humanity than pure, unadulterated
           | facts (however important and interesting they really are!)
        
             | ddejohn wrote:
             | I, for one, appreciate having a little whimsy in my life,
             | as a treat.
        
         | tfehring wrote:
         | It's like the opposite of clickbait. The author did, upon
         | information and belief, taste Honda's spicy rodent-repelling
         | tape, and made a strong case that she will in fact do it again
         | unless someone stops her. Truly giving the people what they
         | want.
        
         | sizzle wrote:
         | The cynic in me questions how much writing is enhanced with AI
         | these days rather than being the authentic style of an author.
         | Great read nonetheless...
        
           | yojo wrote:
           | It's from 2021, so you're probably safe on this one, but I
           | feel your angst.
        
           | bigiain wrote:
           | If yiu have any real examples of llm written text that's as
           | fun to read as that, I'd be curious to see them. Most llm
           | text I see is vapid and uninspired. Kinda exactly the
           | mediocre writing you'd expect from a machine designed to
           | create statistically average sentences based on all the
           | writing its creators could steal.
           | 
           | LLMs write bland LinkedIn "thinkpieces", not Douglas Adams
           | style creative wordplay.
        
           | sadeshmukh wrote:
           | I don't believe anybody should care. If AI made it better,
           | why should I care that they used AI? Either way, I doubt this
           | was AI-assisted - I absolutely love this style.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | LLMs have no sense of humor.
        
         | lqet wrote:
         | "Honda never replied to my tweet."
         | 
         | I lost it when I read that, what a great post.
        
         | ceroxylon wrote:
         | I disagree, it is unnecessarily verbose and seems to revolve
         | around engagement.
        
       | looneysquash wrote:
       | Did anyone determine the heat of the tape on the
       | [scoville](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale) scale?
       | 
       | Personally, for stuff not intended for food or food prep, what I
       | would worry about (even if the MSDS didn't have anything
       | concerning) is an unlisted/unknown contaminant.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | I bet it's not that high. They've got to worry about the
         | mechanic rubbing his eyes after applying this tape.
        
       | jcims wrote:
       | Obviously not recommended but pepper spray works to spice up a
       | drink in a pinch.
        
       | y33t wrote:
       | Brilliant idea. Now we need to spray capsaicin all over the
       | inside of our vehicles. I had mice chew up the firewall for
       | nesting material. Pain. In. The. Ass.
       | 
       | My neighbor keeps an old tuna can filled with gopher poison
       | (strychnine laced grains) strapped to the inside of his car. Mice
       | are destructive little bastards.
        
       | leonixyz wrote:
       | The most hilarious thing to me in this story is the PR guy who
       | replied "most of the things sold in the US these days require
       | warnings about causing cancer". And everybody seems fine with
       | that. LOL
        
         | larrik wrote:
         | I caught that too, though I believe the California warnings are
         | generally of the form "if you can't _prove_ nothing in there
         | causes cancer, then it might cause cancer. "
        
         | xsmasher wrote:
         | It's ridiculous, but maybe not the way you think; Prop 65 in
         | California classified a lot of things as requiring
         | notification, including things like "Wood Dust." so now every
         | apartment building has a sign in the hallway that says "this
         | building may contain chemicals" and everyone ignores it. The
         | law has lead to people being less informed rather than more
         | informed.
        
           | classichasclass wrote:
           | I despise Prop 65 warnings in principle, but the damnable
           | thing about them is they may actually have some
           | effectiveness, if this study is to be believed (
           | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11651356/ ): "Levels
           | of certain chemicals listed under California's law have
           | declined in biosamples from people across the nation. ...
           | Although the law did not require changes to product
           | formulations or processes, interviews with representatives of
           | affected companies have indicated that many businesses did
           | alter formulations to avoid having to post warnings or
           | manufacture special products just for California."
           | 
           | The study has a lot of limitations, and NHANES is not really
           | designed for this kind of analysis, but it sounds like the
           | warnings do well as a cudgel to beat manufacturers with even
           | if regular individuals ignore them. Even more interesting is
           | the knock-on effects Prop 65 has on people _outside_ of
           | California. Overall it seems like an argument to keep them
           | around, sort of.
        
           | abtinf wrote:
           | Also coffee.
        
           | sib wrote:
           | I've recommended that we just put up signs on the Interstate
           | highways entering CA...
        
         | bigtimesink wrote:
         | They're as silly as they sound. Growing up, there was a sign
         | when you enter the school's bus storage and maintenance area.
         | More recently, I've seen them at Starbucks (for coffee), in the
         | vinegar section of the grocery store, and on untreated lumber.
         | 
         | This isn't California being California, but it is well-meaning
         | legislation getting out-of-hand because of enforcement
         | mechanisms. It's like website cookie warnings. It was a nice
         | idea, but it lead to a silly place.
        
           | jrmg wrote:
           | Replying because I remembered coffee too, and had to look it
           | up. 'Good'(?) news is that it was decided in 2019(!) that
           | coffee does _not_ require a Prop 65 warning.
           | 
           | https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/coffee-and-
           | propos...
        
         | kayge wrote:
         | Whenever I see these warnings in the wild, I (jokingly...
         | mostly) think to myself: "well I don't have to worry about
         | getting cancer from this because I live in Texas now, not
         | California"
        
         | krick wrote:
         | I remember when I first bought a knife either made in USA or
         | just targeted at that market (not sure: I mean, I don't think
         | it was the first thing I bought made by an USA company, but
         | I've never seen that warning before), and found that warning
         | inside the package I was quite puzzled, like WTF, I though I
         | was buying a good knife, not some recycled hazardous waste-
         | material or whatever this is. Then, of course, I googled and
         | found out that they stick it on pretty much anything, so that
         | plastic handle is probably just like any plastic handle of any
         | knife I held before. But still it was very weird.
        
         | _moof wrote:
         | I once walked into a hospital that had a prop 65 warning on the
         | door.
        
       | pwillia7 wrote:
       | Super writing. Very entertaining
        
       | spicy-punk-fog wrote:
       | Advertisements have gone out of hand these days
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | Fun blog, I liked the review of a 20 something year old book on
       | garnishing.
        
       | DoubleGlazing wrote:
       | On a similar note one of my childrens friends absolutely loves
       | the taste of Nintendo Switch cartridges and licks them untill the
       | bitter coating wears off.
       | 
       | His tastebuds must be wired different.
        
         | wlesieutre wrote:
         | Is it any weirder than adults that like India pale ales?
        
           | austinprete wrote:
           | Well, presumably he isn't drunk after polishing off a few
           | cartridges in a sitting.
        
       | mirawelner wrote:
       | Sometimes I think to myself 'I should ignore HackerNews and do
       | all my posting on lobste.rs' and then I come across a post like
       | this and I remember why I love this site.
        
       | adamredwoods wrote:
       | We had a rat in our engine. I cleared it's nest out 3 times and
       | tried putting peppermint oil everywhere. Nothing worked it kept
       | coming back. Then one day it snowed and we saw blood everywhere.
       | It appears the crows killed our rat. Problem solved!
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | Sorry, how does the snow factor into this tale?
        
           | irjoe wrote:
           | I imagine the red blood was very noticeable on the white
           | snow. I might be wrong though.
        
           | adamredwoods wrote:
           | My guess was that rat was not seen well by the crows, until
           | it snowed, making the ground all white.
        
       | rolph wrote:
       | someday soon were gonna see the movie scene where someone is
       | restrained, gagged, and blindfolded with the stuff
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | I always thought bitter stuff would be a better repellent than
       | spicy stuff.
        
       | aschla wrote:
       | When I lived in Chicago with a car, and parked it in the small
       | lot behind a condo building, I had to battle with the rats
       | chewing through my car's wires. Twice they chewed through the MAP
       | sensor wires which caused all kinds of misfires. Had to rewire
       | that whole section of the harness. Then wrapped every wire I
       | could see with this rat tape, and it worked for a while, until
       | maybe the hot/cold cycle of the engine bay degraded the tape
       | enough to not be effective.
       | 
       | They loved the warmth of the engine in winter. They'd climb up
       | into the engine bay and hang out throughout it, bringing along
       | nesting material, aka trash.
       | 
       | To try get rid of them, I tried the typical bait boxes,
       | specialized rat traps, regular rat traps, peppermint, moth balls,
       | a motion sensor light underneath the car, and more. The only
       | thing that really worked was sending so many rat reports to the
       | city that they had to keep coming out to bait the burrows in the
       | neighbors small yard, until they likely talked to the owner
       | directly to do something about it. I had talked with the guy
       | briefly once and asked him about the rats (that were obviously
       | only coming from his small backyard), and his response was pretty
       | much "well it's the city so yeah they're around." Pretty sure one
       | of his tenants also abruptly moved out because the rats chewed
       | through their car too.
       | 
       | The lack of awareness from the guy contributed to me moving out
       | of the city for good. Couldn't stand playing the lottery of good
       | neighbors when most were either renters or inept owners, or a
       | combination of both.
        
         | apeace wrote:
         | > The only thing that really worked was sending so many rat
         | reports to the city that they had to keep coming out to bait
         | the burrows in the neighbors small yard, until they likely
         | talked to the owner directly to do something about it.
         | 
         | I was recently deputized into the "Rat Pack" of New York
         | City[1].
         | 
         | The main thing I learned is that exactly what you said is true.
         | When there are rat problems, you have to go to the source.
         | Traps/poison in a localized area is not going to work, as the
         | brown rat is easily able to reproduce faster than we can kill
         | them with those methods.
         | 
         | In fact, certain methods have ended up _helping_ the rats. At
         | one point the city put out thousands of boxes with poison in
         | them. The problem is the boxes were designed to be nice and
         | cozy for the rats, so they 'd be tempted to go in and eat the
         | poison. Instead, they go in there and mate. (They also use the
         | boxes to evade predators).
         | 
         | NYC's current strategy is to improve data collection on rats,
         | and then use that data to better enforce standards (like
         | garbage disposal), eradicate burrows, and plant different
         | shrubs that aren't as friendly to rats. You have to fully
         | eliminate the environments that sustain them, you can't
         | exterminate your way out.
         | 
         | Always report rat sightings in your area!
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.nycservice.org/opportunity/a0TQq00000DwaIoMAJ/ny...
        
       | SunlitCat wrote:
       | Spicy mouse tape: If I am ever in need of an funny username, this
       | will be my go to one!
        
       | jcgrillo wrote:
       | Yet another reason to buy old cars. When I went for my annual
       | inspection this year my mechanic was telling me about a 2021
       | pickup truck he had to do like $10k worth of rewiring on because
       | of rodent damage. Apparently newer cars have delicious and
       | nutritious soy based wire insulation.
        
       | ineptech wrote:
       | > DEHP is a compound added to plastics (like vinyl tape) to make
       | them more flexible. It's used in hundreds of household products,
       | which means lots of people who bathe in Dr. Bronner's Useless
       | Fluid think it will kill them.
       | 
       | I get the joke (that people who use Dr. Bronner's soap are
       | probably uninformed hippies) but am confused by the "Useless"
       | part. I've used that soap and thought it seemed fine. Is it a
       | known fact, or factoid, or meme, among smart people that Dr.
       | Bronner's is ineffective?
        
         | andrewmcwatters wrote:
         | It's normal soap, the writer is just taking a jab at Dr.
         | Bronner's marketing.
        
       | sans_souse wrote:
       | Hear me out: Duct Tape Flavored Doritos (r)
        
       | ropable wrote:
       | This. This is what I come to Hacker News for. Absurdly well-
       | documented writeups of things about which I am intellectually
       | curious but that no normal person in their right mind would
       | experiment with.
        
       | hilbert42 wrote:
       | I used to work in a rather well-known building running the
       | electronics operation and we had long PVC conduits that contained
       | communication cables that ran large distances throughout the
       | building and both the conduits and cables were attacked by rats.
       | 
       | The main conduits were about 15cm (~6") in diameter and the total
       | CSA of the comms cables therein occupied about 40% of the total
       | diameter.
       | 
       | 40% of the total CSA was the nominal/regulated maximum cable-
       | carrying capacity for the conduits as (a) drawing cables through
       | long conduits in excess of this limit could damage them, and (b)
       | there was still some small margin/extra capacity should there be
       | need to add a few extra circuits.
       | 
       | Now rats quickly discovered that the remaining 60% of space in
       | these conduits provided them with excellent 'highways' from one
       | end of the building to another.
       | 
       | As one would expect, cables would also enter and exit these
       | conduits at various points throughout the building at 'T'
       | junctions. The adjoing conduits at the 'T' junctions were often
       | of much smaller diameter than the main trunk ones and rats had
       | difficulty getting though their small orifices so they simply
       | enlarged them by gnawing through both the conduit walls and the
       | comms cables.
       | 
       | Many of the cables were PVC covered and EMR shielded such as
       | RG-59 coaxial cable and Belden Beldfoil-type balanced comms
       | cables and there were many cases where both the copper
       | braiding/outer shielding and inner conductor of the coaxes and
       | the aluminum shielding of the Belden cables were completely
       | chewed through. It seems that PVC, mylar, copper and aluminum are
       | not objects that act as impediments to determined rats--anything
       | in their way they'll chew right through.
       | 
       | Trouble was these points of ingress and egress were in very
       | awkward places and repairing the cables was a tedious and
       | difficult job.
       | 
       | Somewhere in my archives I've photos of the havoc and destruction
       | they caused, if HN would also post images then I'd dig them out.
       | 
       | Incidentally, I've seen photos of lead-sheathed (completely
       | covered and shielded) telephone cables consisting of hundreds of
       | phone circuits where rats have gnawed right through the lead to
       | get at the paper insulation on the cables. Some of these photos
       | are quite amazing, it's hard to believe how destructive these
       | rodents can be until one actually sees the evidence.
        
         | sethammons wrote:
         | Chewing through lead! How do they know something is worth it on
         | the other side? Or do they like sweet metal?
         | 
         | For the unaware, lead tastes sweet. Kids used to eat lead paint
         | chips. And there have been sweet springs of great tasting lead
         | water. Hmmmm forbidden springs
        
           | hilbert42 wrote:
           | _" Chewing through lead! How do they know something is worth
           | it on the other side?" _
           | 
           | I wish I knew, it's something I've been curious about since I
           | first saw the photos. Perhaps it's because lead can taste
           | sweet, or there's residual smell on the outside of the
           | cables, or maybe they've learned from elsewhere where the
           | telephone pairs exit the main cables.
           | 
           | Incidentally, it's a long time since I've seen those photos
           | but I vividly remember them as it seemed so strange. I'm
           | almost certain the photos were in the Electrical Engineering
           | Supplemently Volumes of the Newnes Encyclopedia. (The exact
           | name(s) of the supplemently volumes could be slightly
           | different, memory's short given the length of time since I've
           | last seen them. BTW, I think there were four supplemently
           | volumes.)
           | 
           |  _Edit: I 've since found this reference but I don't remember
           | that number of volumes, perhaps we only had part of the set
           | or I just can't remember:
           | https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/newnes-complete-
           | elect..._
        
       | billy99k wrote:
       | test
        
       | veza wrote:
       | This is an article where you shouldn't go directly to the
       | comments or you'll miss all the fun.
        
       | pantropy wrote:
       | The human mind will never cease to delight me, what an amazing
       | read ^^
        
       | virtualritz wrote:
       | This is David Sedaris-level writing. What a joy.
        
       | miniBill wrote:
       | > This is the Haterade promise: I will only ever use your money
       | irresponsibly.
       | 
       | Amazing :D
        
       | roymurdock wrote:
       | This is amazing. Thank you for sharing.
        
       | amunozo wrote:
       | This is the best thing I've read in weeks. Thanks.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | I once trapped a mouse using a cheese under a glass bowl, where
       | the glass bowl was propped up by a matchstick with a thread
       | attached to the cheese. Proper Tom and Jerry style. It worked,
       | after several attempts, but did amputate the end of the mouse's
       | tail. Oops. But at least the mouse survived (and was released a
       | safe distance away).
        
       | rkp8000 wrote:
       | This is just to say: the poem at the end is a play on William
       | Carlos William's poem, entitled "This is just to say".
        
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