[HN Gopher] Reviving the joy and honor of working with your hand...
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Reviving the joy and honor of working with your hands (2015)
Author : skadamat
Score : 55 points
Date : 2025-02-11 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (richmond.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (richmond.com)
| robomc wrote:
| > It's all part of the sharp decline in vocational education --
| shop class -- in this nation that began in the 1980s as blue
| collars became unfashionable and the emphasis shifted to a
| college education.
|
| Yeah that's what happened. They became "unfashionable", rather
| than hopelessly precarious due to structural economic changes.
| almosthere wrote:
| What is wild to me about that, is that there is a huge untapped
| market for 1 man builds. If I can go out and build a house
| twice a year for 150-200k each, and sell them for 400-500k,
| then I'm way ahead of what I would get as a remote developer.
| And 400-500 is conservative, in the right market, 600-700.
|
| What bothers me is gatekeeping the capital to do this, as well
| as the "apprenticeship" requirements to get your gen con
| license.
|
| It would solve two problems simultaneously - something laid off
| engineers can easily do (they are problem solvers and fast
| learners).
|
| I'm building my own house, and it's ridiculously easy (not all
| parts). I hope to build more after and sell them.
| nancyminusone wrote:
| If that's what's bothering you, there's no way in hell I'd
| hire you to build a house.
| quesera wrote:
| That's unnecessarily hostile.
|
| House building is not that difficult. And literally zero of
| the licensed trades (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc)
| cannot be learned by a smart and motivated person in 1-2
| months _at most_ , instead of the multiple years (each,
| nonconcurrently) required for apprentice, journeyman, and
| eventual master licensing.
|
| I've built three houses. I subbed out the work that was
| required by local regs (this varies by jurisdiction and
| year), and did the work myself, with inspection where
| available, wherever possible. Not difficult at all.
| hobs wrote:
| I would not want a house wired by a 60 day electrician,
| that's for sure. I don't think I'd want a flood done by
| the 60 day plumber either, but those are the only two
| trades I am familiar enough with to be aghast by this
| comment.
| quesera wrote:
| I'm sure that's true.
|
| And it means that you do not know how to do electrical or
| plumbing work.
|
| That's fine! But take it from someone who does: it does
| not take years of training to be excellent at it.
| Household electric and plumbing is extremely
| straightforward. Commercial can be much more complicated!
| And if you run into any semi-complicated stuff, like say
| a bathroom below grade where you need a toilet to flush
| uphill ... you learn it from the vast resources
| available, or you call a plumber for that bit. Simple.
|
| Similarly, if you ever are not 100% certain of your own
| work, you call a licensed tradesman for the inspection.
| Note that this is not always allowed -- but where it is,
| everyone agrees that it makes total sense.
| nancyminusone wrote:
| Of course it's not hard, licences are not awarded based
| on how hard something is, they are supposed to be awarded
| for competence.
|
| Anyone can and should be able to build their own house (I
| have done so myself), but if you ask for someone else to
| depend on your work, you had better prove it.
| almosthere wrote:
| It's called passing inspections. Which you should know if
| you had actually built your own house.
| quesera wrote:
| But licenses are not awarded based on competence.
|
| They are awarded based on years of service as an
| apprentice and a journeyman _to a master_ , who is
| effectively your pimp until you become a master yourself.
|
| Guess who certified master tradesmen? They guy who
| prefers to have you working for him instead of competing
| with him. It's a racket. There's some logic behind it,
| but less than you'd think.
|
| Becoming fully competent to plumb or wire a house takes a
| couple weeks of instruction. If that. It's just not
| difficult to become competent. It takes a bit longer to
| get _fast_ though!
| carlosjobim wrote:
| Any man who is unable to learn to build a house is far
| behind the average in talent. Everybody used to build their
| own houses.
| harimau777 wrote:
| I think that may be due to differences in building
| standards between then and now. For example, fire was a
| much greater risk in previous generations.
| almosthere wrote:
| Most people in those individual trades hired by D.R. Horton
| are doing things as fast as possible with the cheapest
| materials.
|
| I personally would want a person that is being paid very
| well that oversaw every nail, every wire going into that
| house.
|
| But :shrug: I don't mind you not being my customer. I will
| give my meticulously installed kiln dried studs/plates, zip
| sheathing, rockwool, interior rockwool, exterior rockwool
| jacket and james hardie fireproof house to someone that
| appreciates it!
| bongodongobob wrote:
| That's hilarious. I'd rather hire a team of people that have
| specialized teams and have built 1000s of houses, not a guy
| that built one and thinks he's really good at it, sorry.
| nicoburns wrote:
| I wish education wasn't so split between "academic" and
| "vocational" (for lack of better terms).
|
| In high school for my A levels I was able to take both Maths,
| Physics and Politics (with an academic focus) and Metalworking
| and Photography (with a more practical hands-on focus). I loved
| this, and feel like this was incredibly useful to me later in
| life.
|
| But for some reason beyond school level you are mostly forced to
| choose between academics and hands-on work (at least in the UK).
| With the hands-on pathways being looked down on by much of
| society.
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| I went back to university to study environmental science. After
| that, years later, I ended up starting a company designing
| closed loop food production systems, (well, semi-closed).
|
| I designed and built it with friends, investors and colleagues.
| Very satisfying. (The fish farm has since the pictures been
| significantly upgraded.)
|
| https://cirkularodling.se/build-an-aquaponic-indoor-farm-par...
| lnsru wrote:
| It's absolutely the same in Germany. Trade people against
| academics. Luckily as an electrical engineer I can pick both
| tracks simultaneously. Many people are less lucky. The funny
| thing that self employed plumber or electrician can live way
| better than salaried worker with university diploma.
| skadamat wrote:
| Shop Class as Soulcraft essay (and book) continues on these
| points pretty well:
| https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-so...
| alnwlsn wrote:
| I'm glad the "heavy" part of this is not understated. The big
| iron is out there, surprisingly cheap, and it usually stays put
| for quite a while because it is a damn bitch to move. Tear down a
| wall, and put it back later. And make sure your floor won't cave
| in.
|
| If you ever get yourself into serious hobby machining, get ready
| for the average density of all your possessions to double.
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(page generated 2025-02-11 23:00 UTC)