[HN Gopher] The hallucinatory thoughts of the dying mind
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The hallucinatory thoughts of the dying mind
Author : anarbadalov
Score : 81 points
Date : 2025-02-10 13:11 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (thereader.mitpress.mit.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (thereader.mitpress.mit.edu)
| tamaharbor wrote:
| Just before my mom died recently, she told me that my dad (died
| in 1997) had finally come to take her home. I am OK with that.
| ImHereToVote wrote:
| I often notice these demented moments before I fall asleep.
| Completely nonsensical thoughts like the argument from bear
| bicyclist study when you need to turnkey.
| croisillon wrote:
| at the beginning of the night i regularly have this strain of
| thought: "oh shit i'm still not sleeping? but i was just
| planning a vacation on the moon, i must be sleeping"
| aradox66 wrote:
| "I'm still awake" can become a kind of assumption that
| survives falling asleep
| aszantu wrote:
| Sleep writing is funny
|
| Put a piece of paper under the hand with a pencil, write down
| thoughts until you're gone, read in the morning - profit
| MadcapJake wrote:
| Salvador Dali would hold an object like a spoon in his hand
| while sitting in front of his canvas and fall asleep. This
| would cause him to drop the spoon waking him back up and then
| he would draw what he saw.
| atiffany wrote:
| Hypnagogia is the name of this state between sleep and
| wakefulness - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| In my youth I'd keep friends on the phone entirely too long,
| and sometimes fall asleep while talking. (How my friends
| tolerated me I'll never know...)
|
| Occasionally I'd realize I was saying something ridiculous and
| catch myself. Most times, though, they'd ask me for
| clarification about whatever crazy-sounding thing I said and
| I'd snap back to wakefulness (briefly). I wish I had recordings
| of some of those things I said. They left my mind almost
| immediately (to the point that I couldn't respond to questions
| asked directly after whatever I'd said). It would be
| entertaining to know what I was saying. (I didn't ask friends
| at the time and, at >30 years ago, I doubt any of them
| remember.)
|
| I read to my daughter before bed. She drifts off sometimes when
| I'm reading "boring" stuff (at her request) and says fun
| things. I keep notes and ask her about it later. I enjoy the
| window into her mind.
| siavosh wrote:
| I think these thoughts are happening all the time we just don't
| normally notice them. During the transition to sleep, some
| parts of our thinking mind start shutting off and the filter
| cracks and that's what we notice sometimes, if we remember.
| ImHereToVote wrote:
| It might be the latent space hidden in the deep parts of our
| brain.
| rpaddock wrote:
| About eight hours before my father died he was having a
| conversation with his unseen mother, who died when he was 14.
|
| I asked him "Who are you talking to?" and got a rather rude
| response, not like him, "My mother" in a tone you give a five
| year old "go away kid you are bothering me".
|
| The International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) is
| worth checking out if you have interest. I've never had a NDE,
| however I've spent a lot of time in their library in Durham North
| Carolina.
|
| https://iands.org
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> About eight hours before my father died he was having a
| conversation with his unseen mother, who died when he was 14. _
|
| Anecdotally, my grandad did the same thing a day before he
| died. Except he was talking to his best friend who's been dead
| a long time.
| hibikir wrote:
| We don't even need to be all that close to death for this, just
| suffer sufficient brain damage. I have a family member that had
| enough mini strokes that, whenever they have something like an
| urinary infection, they disassociate from reality and start
| talking to dead people, and they understand reality as if they
| were children. It's how we detect infections, as the
| hallucinations come in pretty early. A course of antibiotics,
| and they are their normal elderly selves, remembering little of
| the previous week
| pipes wrote:
| Well this is a holy shit moment for me. My grand mother was
| having really strange hallucinations, like explaining how she
| was talking to people on TV and the neighbours came round and
| joined in too. I had never heard about the infection thing
| before. It was really upsetting my mum and no health care
| professional ever suggested it might be infections. This was
| ten years ago and she's dead now, but I wish I'd known then.
|
| It sounds very similar to your experience, they'd just
| randomly come and disappear after a while.
| sys32768 wrote:
| My mom passed recently. She battled Alzheimer's for 15 years,
| then passed five days after breaking her hip, even though she was
| singing and goofing around the day of the break. She was only 77.
|
| A month prior to this, she had begun to sometimes stay in her bed
| often half the day, lying awake looking up at the ceiling with
| the most joyous look of peace in her eyes, as if seeing something
| or someone very special, often whispering as if in dialogue. This
| went on for hours sometimes.
|
| I was incredibly moved at the time, but there were otherwise no
| indicators she was near death, so I filed it away as some new
| development in the progression of her disease.
|
| I now take great comfort knowing this is not uncommon among
| people who are soon to die, especially since she was unable to
| communicate the day she died.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| My great-grandma talked to several children that she miscarried
| when young.
| namshe wrote:
| In some traditions it's not a hallucination taking place:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo
| krapp wrote:
| In some traditions it isn't _interpreted_ as a hallucination
| taking place.
|
| But in reality, it is _always_ a hallucination taking place,
| because the supernatural isn 't real.
| ChrisClark wrote:
| It isn't?
| strogonoff wrote:
| Unless you somehow possess the ultimate, complete and
| provably correct description of reality (which is, of course,
| an oxymoron), or direct access to the underlying territory
| (which would mean, of course, you are high), everything is a
| model, and a model is essentially just an interpretation.
| driggs wrote:
| You must be really fun at parties.
| demosthanos wrote:
| The supernatural part is unfalsifiable--they can't prove it's
| real, you can't prove it isn't. You assume it's not real
| because that fits your priors better, they assume it is real
| because that better fits their priors.
|
| Dogmatically defining metaphysical claims as "not real"
| because they are unfalsifiable is no more rational than
| dogmatically accepting them--the only purely rational
| approach is to say "we don't know and cannot know" and then
| move on.
| m1n1 wrote:
| > the supernatural isn't real
|
| So ... only what is physical is real? Like only matter and
| energy? Then there's no such thing as significance or value,
| only different combinations of matter and energy. Any opinion
| or argument, held however strongly, is only a set of chemical
| reactions, nothing more?
| BSOhealth wrote:
| I don't want to trivialize the positive aspects this can have on
| someone who otherwise might have a sad or challenging death, and
| to that extent perhaps it's just an evolved mechanism to make us
| accept death more gracefully.
|
| But if you've ever stayed awake for many days or had other
| hallucinogenic experiences, you'll know how powerfully thoughts
| can manifest. And how deep our memory actually goes. Clearly it's
| inappropriate to vividly see your memories during waking life,
| but as you transition to death those barriers are less necessary
| as the body diverts increasingly scarce resources to surviving
| just a few moments longer.
| wutwutwat wrote:
| Please describe what makes one's death a "sad death"
| 2snakes wrote:
| Real yoga is possible.
| wutwutwat wrote:
| That has what to do with this person saying a death is sad?
| BSOhealth wrote:
| Of course, I'd be happy to! That would be something in
| contrast to all the fortunate, welcomed, gleeful, and
| celebrated deaths we hear about frequently in Western news
| and experience in our own personal lives.
|
| Instances where people are not ready to go, sorrowful,
| regretful, spiteful, guilty, etc.
| MomsAVoxell wrote:
| A sudden or unexpected departure, under some circumstances
| that highlight the grief of passing, such as in a car
| accident on the way home from a wedding, or having just given
| birth, or some such circumstances.
|
| I think I can imagine there being 'non-sad' deaths, though -
| such as in the case of dying close to 100 years old,
| surrounded by ones loved ones, family, friends, with time to
| say goodbye. So, basically any circumstance which does not
| allow for the ideal departure, could be classed as a 'sad
| death' ..
| temp0826 wrote:
| Any death of a child. Astronomical loss of potential vs
| someone who has lived a long life.
| aradox66 wrote:
| "Terminal lucidity" is common and seems to undermine the notion
| that the physiology of the dying brain necessarily implies
| impaired function.
| caspper69 wrote:
| My great grandmother, who was 83 or 84 at the time, had had a
| brain tumor (which was removed once it got to between golf ball
| and baseball size) and was pretty far along into Alzheimer's as
| she got got close to her death.
|
| For the last several months, she wasn't able to feed or clothe
| herself, and she was basically immobile.
|
| The day she died, she got up, went to her room, made her bed
| (unthinkable in the state she was in), put on her "Sunday's
| best" and laid down peacefully in the middle of her bed and
| passed.
|
| Her daughter (my grandmother), was floored. She just said she
| must have just known it was her time, and that she had a few
| minutes of lucidity before dying.
|
| Whether there's any truth to that I'm not qualified to answer,
| but if you had seen the state she was in for quite some time
| prior to that day, her actions would certainly have been
| surprising to say the least.
| jawns wrote:
| > "Do not contradict, explain away, belittle or argue about what
| the person claims to have seen or heard," reads a short text that
| a hospice provides about the dying process. "Just because you
| cannot see or hear it does not mean it is not real to your loved
| one. Affirm his or her experience. They are normal and common."
|
| Not all hospice or elder-care providers recommend affirming
| hallucinations.
|
| Here's a quote from a nursing home guide that explores the
| ethical considerations of this practice:
|
| > Lying to someone with dementia, often termed "therapeutic
| lying," poses a nuanced ethical dilemma. While entering a
| person's altered reality can indeed reduce their immediate
| distress, it's important to acknowledge that lying is still
| lying.
|
| > Over time, this practice may lead to confusion, especially in
| moments of clarity, and strain the trust and relationship between
| the patient and caregiver.
|
| > This complexity has led caregivers and professionals to explore
| alternative communication strategies that honor the truth while
| providing comfort and reducing agitation. Two such approaches are
| reflection and redirection. Reflection involves acknowledging the
| person's feelings and statements without directly affirming the
| distorted reality or lying. Redirection gently shifts the
| conversation or activity towards something positive and engaging
| without directly contradicting the person's beliefs.
| jjmarr wrote:
| While this nursing home guide is interesting, it's important to
| acknowledge that it sounds like ChatGPT.
| 1659447091 wrote:
| The first example says it's "...about the _dying process_ "
|
| The second example is for "...someone with dementia"
| tsoukase wrote:
| Delirium, so called the organic psychosis, is the common end
| result of every diffuse brain dysfunction, so it be chemical
| toxicity, inflammation, trauma or most commonly senility-
| dementia. It's caused because of a chemical disturbance of the
| brain-'soup'. Any psychotic symptom can be manifested, not only
| visual hallucinations. Antipsychotic therapy has massively varied
| results
| nabla9 wrote:
| It's common with alcoholics when they start having withdrawal.
|
| Easy suggestibility is common. You hold a blank paper in front
| of someone in delirium and ask them to read what it says and
| they start reading like there was something there.
| cm2012 wrote:
| My wife can be psychotic at times (in the medical meaning) and
| trying to argue against the delusions is useless, you just have
| to reflect and redirect.
| ge96 wrote:
| Oh man Brainstorm had a trippy scene about this
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| My father, at one point, imagined himself on a Greek island.
| "Ouzo!" He'd offer from his hospital bed.
|
| He was an avid fisherman and his last words were, distinctly,
| "Big fish."
|
| Yet, he was mostly unconscious for his last day. I spent time
| talking with him as he slept, massaging his hands and feet. Later
| we had a party for him and played music. Around 10 at night he
| began to die (the breathing changes). At the very end he opened
| his eyes, looked at my mother, sister and me, and passed.
|
| It was a beautiful death.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Thank you for sharing this. We should all be so lucky.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I wish there was a place I could share the experience of my
| father's death. This doesn't seem to be it, though I appreciate
| everyone's story.
|
| Is there such a place?
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