[HN Gopher] Mac(OS)talgia
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mac(OS)talgia
        
       Author : mgrayson
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2025-02-09 13:55 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (swallowmygraphicdesign.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (swallowmygraphicdesign.com)
        
       | SuperNinKenDo wrote:
       | Always been rather partial to the Windows 9x look myself, but Mac
       | OS 9 is a solid runner-up to me in terms of looks. Enjoyed seeing
       | some of the reimaginings of modern apps, quite gorgeous.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | Agreed. The Platinum UI design holds up extraordinarily well -
         | it had a clear design language which was easy for developers to
         | use and extend.
        
           | ok123456 wrote:
           | This is back when they actually did usability testing with
           | people.
           | 
           | Now it's whatever slop in every direction.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | now we have experts who know everything!
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | All we ever needed was in Snow Leopard. Everything since then (ok
       | except maybe for SIP and XProtect) is bloatware.
        
         | andrewclunn wrote:
         | Still can't believe we once had an operating system named OS X
         | Panther. The puns...
        
           | LiquidPolymer wrote:
           | I have an ancient laptop with Snow Leopard running. It keeps
           | my Nikon Film Scanner useful since Nikon abandoned the
           | software for these scanners rather abruptly.
           | 
           | I've been a pro photographer since 1990 and the Kodachrome
           | setting embedded within the Nikon scanner is fantastic for
           | capturing the color and detail of this exceptionally sharp
           | film.
        
             | Affric wrote:
             | Kodachrome was beautiful it's a shame we will never see
             | it's like again.
             | 
             | Do you still do film photography? Ektachrome?
        
         | boc wrote:
         | Snow Leopard was truly the best. An actual OS release based
         | around performance improvements under-the-hood instead of
         | flashy, half-baked features.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than
         | root to access system files, and only processes that are signed
         | by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access
         | level?
         | 
         | It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions
         | totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to
         | enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one
         | signing the executables. Fortunately, you can disable this
         | crap.
        
           | sitharus wrote:
           | SIP is wonderful. I no longer have to completely repave
           | machines after my family install crapware because I know it
           | can't mess with the base system.
           | 
           | But for those of us who need that access we can disable it,
           | with a bit of a dance to make it hard for people who _don't_
           | need it.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | Do you want OS updates to work or not? They can't work if you
           | randomly edit files.
        
         | jaredklewis wrote:
         | No love for APFS?
        
           | bangonkeyboard wrote:
           | Not from me. A black box filesystem that can't even
           | accurately say how much space is free and destroys mechanical
           | hard drives with longer term use. There were other options to
           | deal with HFS+'s 2038 problem.
        
         | caseyy wrote:
         | Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are from a time when computers were
         | made to serve the user.
         | 
         | Then we discovered how much more money could be made by
         | focusing on ad tech.
         | 
         | The relationship between people and technology was so different
         | in 2009. I miss it.
        
         | cosmic_cheese wrote:
         | 10.6.8 was solid (people often forget that 10.6 and the
         | intermediate patches were a bit of a mess) but when I use it I
         | definitely feel a few spots where some polish and QoL
         | improvements would be welcome. Its theme's dominant gray is
         | also a bit too dark.
         | 
         | I don't mind SIP personally. It always unnerved me that any
         | random executable was just a single admin password entry away
         | from doing whatever it pleased.
         | 
         | My ideal desktop OS environment would be something like a
         | polished-up Snow Leopard using the brighter, more refined theme
         | from 10.9 Mavericks (except with the flat scrollbars de-
         | flattened). If I had that I don't think I could use anything
         | else.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | As a multi-computer user, "Continuity"[1] is magical. Being
         | able to drag my cursor over to my other computer, drop some
         | files, etc, is really great.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.apple.com/macos/continuity/
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | Its performance over wifi is also shockingly close to that of
           | third party KB+mouse sharing software running hardwired which
           | is crazy. Trying to use Synergy, etc over wifi is normally a
           | laggy mess.
        
         | markcerqueira wrote:
         | I wonder how much of this sentiment is driven by Apple saying
         | Snow Leopard was taking Leopard and focusing on performance and
         | stability?
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | It's certainly not true that it focused on stability even if
           | Bertrand said it. Any kind of change reduces stability by
           | introducing regressions. This includes performance
           | improvements and it even includes other stability fixes.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | App auto saving was added in the next release Lion, I think you
         | want that one.
        
       | thunfisch wrote:
       | Hugged to death.
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20250128175526/https://swallowmy...
        
       | rahoulb wrote:
       | I love that.
       | 
       | Also the MacOS "Zoom" button makes so much more sense than the
       | OSX/macOS green button - and I still miss window shading.
        
       | cameldrv wrote:
       | I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than
       | back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would
       | crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as
       | one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer
       | and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My
       | recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a
       | day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't do this
       | failed and so they had to buy NeXT, and the rest is history.
        
         | feketegy wrote:
         | OS X Lion was the most stable operating system I've ever used.
         | 
         | Tbh, it's all downhill from there, every new release gets a
         | little worse not to mention all the hardware issues too.
        
         | shortrounddev2 wrote:
         | People aren't nostalgic for the stability of the system,
         | they're nostalgic for a time when user interfaces were more
         | friendly to humans and less flat/abstract
        
         | Reason077 wrote:
         | That's true. The nostalgia nerds can rightly criticise the
         | ever-spiralling bloat and inefficiency of modern systems. But
         | modern macOS can go for _months_ without a crash /reboot!
         | Almost unimaginable in the Mac OS 9 / Win95 era.
        
           | theodric wrote:
           | This is what pushed me to get my parents on NT4 in 1997: the
           | system would run until _you_ wanted to reboot it, rather than
           | crashing twice a day because Netscape decided to have a
           | conniption like Win9x did. Never looked back. Win2000 was
           | absolutely awesome for them, WinXP was twice the size and
           | half the speed but fine and very long-lived, Vista was
           | extremely reliable despite all the hate heaped on it...and we
           | 're approaching the modern era.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, I was running IRIX (for which my record was _4
           | years_ without a reboot, and that only due to a power outage)
           | and Linux; and when I got some money, macOS X: all rock
           | solid.
           | 
           | edit: I just remembered that Netcraft used to have a server
           | uptime leaderboard, and for quite a while in the 1990s,
           | Lamborghini was at the top of the list with their IRIX
           | servers. The earliest archive I can find of the list is from
           | 2001, with ONLY FreeBSD and IRIX occupying the top 29 places:
           | https://web.archive.org/web/20010226190549/http://uptime.net.
           | ..
        
             | cosmic_cheese wrote:
             | Putting Win2K on my parents' tower, replacing Win98SE,
             | absolutely transformed that machine. It instantly went from
             | cranky nuisance to unstoppable workhorse. Software updates
             | like that have become depressingly rare.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | I think it used to be that the back end (hardware, kernel,
         | services, libraries) was in many ways worse, but the front end
         | (UI/UX) was largely better. And today we have the reverse;
         | amazingly fast and mostly reliable hardware, solid underlying
         | components, and ugly, hostile interfaces on top. Hence the
         | number of folks wishing for the Windows 2k GUI on a modern NT
         | OS, a slightly more robust version of some OS X (I think I
         | usually hear Snow Leopard?), or those of us running CDE on
         | bleeding edge Linux.
        
         | swiftcoder wrote:
         | I think it depended on your workload, and how often you
         | rebooted them. But yes, macOS reliability has come a long way
         | since then.
         | 
         | UX I'm less sure about - I now use a 4K monitor to do a bunch
         | of things I used to do quite successfully on 1024x768.
         | 
         | Performance of a bunch of basic apps has also taken a few hits
         | here and there (at least in part due to that big resolution
         | bump, and despite massive hardware improvements).
         | 
         | I definitely have some nostalgia for that era, but it's
         | possibly more nostalgia for the age before the internet
         | consumed all of computing...
        
         | recursivedoubts wrote:
         | it's possible to bring back the usability of earlier operating
         | systems with the stability of also earlier, but not quite as
         | earlier, operating systems (OSX has crashed hard-booted three
         | times on me this year, haven't had that happen in a long time)
        
       | swiftcoder wrote:
       | Well, you've successfully made me nostalgic for the year 2000.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | There's something about the Platinum UI that makes it timeless. I
       | have been running XFCE with a Platinum theme on several of my
       | machines/VMs for a while
       | (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/12/2330) and I'm a bit
       | sad that the XFCE top-level app menu plugin seems to have been
       | deprecated in recent releases, since it really adds to the
       | experience.
        
         | cosmic_cheese wrote:
         | The XFCE global menubar plugin being deprecated likely happened
         | because there's no standardized way for applications on Linux
         | to surface their menus to the environment for display (or to
         | power a Unity-style HUD or whatever), which means that hackery
         | via plugins for GTK and Qt are required to make a global
         | menubar work. Keeping that hackery functional probably is a
         | constant battle.
         | 
         | There's also how GTK apps have been on a crusade against
         | menubars since GTK3 which doesn't help matters. Same goes for
         | Linux builds of Electron apps, which don't offer the user the
         | option to display a menubar even though all the menu work is
         | already done for macOS builds.
         | 
         | Whatever the case it bums me out too. I know a lot of people
         | hate global menubars but I've always loved them and it kills me
         | that they're not a practical option on the Linux desktop,
         | despite ultimate customizability being one of the most
         | frequently-cited reasons to use Linux as a desktop OS. You can
         | do anything you want, as long as what you want falls within the
         | boxes of Win9X-like, tablet-like, or "trendy minimal tiling
         | window manager"...
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | Funnily enough it works on Ubuntu but there seems to be no
           | Fedora package.
        
           | simondotau wrote:
           | Global menu bars are a great way of making complex
           | functionality discoverable without overwhelming the user.
           | They should be thought of like an index at the back of a book
           | -- not for everyday use, but a universal standard way to call
           | upon infrequent tools, and to discover commands which might
           | be useful.
        
       | ndrake wrote:
       | https://infinitemac.org/
        
       | salgernon wrote:
       | The big loss for me was when many apps took over the windows 3.0
       | MDI interface style. (Specifically thinking of code here). I was
       | doing some hacking in codwarrior on Mac OS 9 a few weeks ago and
       | it was such a joy to have 5 source code windows open any once -
       | and a separate window with build or find results that weren't
       | wrapped in a miserable column. There's actually a lot about Xcode
       | I do like - but treating content panels like the old Puzzle desk
       | accessory was never an improvement.
        
       | Einenlum wrote:
       | Such great work. I'm amazed by the video. I wondered for a moment
       | if they managed to tweak these apps (I'm a bit naive I guess).
       | Never had a Mac but I remember as a kid when I went to a friend
       | who had one. It was so fascinating to me. So weird to be
       | nostalgic of something I never owned or used.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-02-10 23:00 UTC)