[HN Gopher] Insomnia, Control
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Insomnia, Control
Author : rpastuszak
Score : 60 points
Date : 2025-02-05 09:27 UTC (3 days ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (untested.sonnet.io)
| Aurornis wrote:
| Insomnia often responds very well to therapy techniques, but this
| requires the person to be open to the idea that therapy
| techniques can help.
|
| A common challenge is that people think they've "tried
| everything" already and therefore therapy suggestions are
| equivalent to dismissing the seriousness of their problem. It can
| take a self-discovery like this article describes to bring
| someone back around to the idea that the condition is related to
| something like anxiety or obsessive behaviors and is receptive to
| behavioral modification.
|
| > I'd just skip the night and take my sweet time to: write, draw,
| practice calligraphy, code a little toy, make a little sculpture
| from a scrap of wood.
|
| Importantly, none of these activities involve entering the
| ragebait vortex that exists in most people's Internet time
| wasting destinations. For many people it's enough to just cut out
| Reddit or similar sites in the evening.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| You're so right. It's amazing how many people have this pattern
| for so many problems in their lives. "I've tried everything" /
| "I've tried that before" - and then closed to variations or
| investigation. If you have this habit it's always worth
| solving.
| xattt wrote:
| ... but I've tried to break this habit before and it's not
| working!
| almost_usual wrote:
| Everyone is different but I was able to channel my creativity and
| have it at other times in the day rather than 8pm and unravel
| into the later evening and early morning.
|
| Waking up at 4AM everyday for a rigorous workout was necessary.
| Intense strength training or running a 5K at minimum and being
| done by 5AM. Sobriety as well to stick to the schedule with
| 6-7hrs of sleep. It works for me though.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| I think in this case we know enough about biology to not even
| have to say "everyone is different" - regular exercise and
| regular wake times, combined with no alcohol, help anyone's
| sleep.
| silotis wrote:
| Eh, I've found my insomnia to be largely independent of the
| amount of exercise I get. I can run 5 km during the day and
| still only manage 3-4 hours the next night.
| Aurornis wrote:
| The key was "regular exercise". It's not as simple as
| exercising once and having insomnia cured immediately for
| that night.
|
| It's about lifestyle changes and adaptation to those
| changes over long periods.
| silotis wrote:
| I have a regular exercise routine I do every day. Believe
| it or not some people still have insomnia even when they
| follow all the usual lifestyle advise.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > regular exercise and regular wake times, combined with no
| alcohol, help anyone's sleep.
|
| It's amazing to hear when someone makes positive lifestyle
| changes, sticks with them, and then reaps the benefits over
| time.
|
| I always do my best to be supportive and encouraging when I
| hear people tell me about it in person, but I'm also amazed
| at how people talk about their lifestyles prior to some of
| these changes as if it was normal. I've heard multiple
| stories of people cutting out alcohol, which after some
| probing revealed that they were drinking at least 5 nights a
| week and often multiple drinks (by the medical definition of
| units of alcohol, not just number of physical containers) per
| night.
|
| It's common sense that changing these lifestyle habits will
| provide benefits over months and years, but I guess when
| you're in the middle of those habits and some people around
| you are doing the same then it can feel normal.
| xattt wrote:
| I'm trying to figure out the no alcohol thing. Is half a can
| of beer once or twice a week on weekend nights considered
| alcohol consumption?
| huijzer wrote:
| > take a hot shower before bed
|
| I don't know whether it was sensible for the author but for
| people with sleeping problems here: in general it's probably not
| a good idea to take a shower before going to bed. Warm showers
| can feel relaxing but also increase the body temperature even
| though it should be lowering before sleep. Conversely, cold
| showers can stimulate the nervous system.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| Given the author and their relationship with anxiety(?) and
| control, it's entirely possible it's harmful to their sleep,
| but they haven't tried not doing it for long enough to really
| validate.
| picture wrote:
| Seconding this. I found out that I get mini-nightmares and get
| woken up if I try to sleep immediately after a hot shower, so I
| switched to morning showers. This also helps me set a hard wake
| up time since the shower gets me awake
| n4r9 wrote:
| Hot showers are known to aid sleep, although it's generally
| assumed that the shower happens an hour or two before bedtime.
| That allows the body to cool down. Some evidence suggests
| that's it's not the total body temperature but the rate of
| cooling which actually helps with winding down.
|
| https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-hygiene/shower-before-...
| RevEng wrote:
| This idea of learning not to be anxious about insomnia is what
| CBT-I is all about. A lot of insomniacs are such because they
| worry about not sleeping, which keeps them awake. It's a self
| fulfilling prophecy. By learning to accept the prospect of a
| sleepless night, you allow yourself to relax and sleep.
|
| A lot of sleep anxiety can also be the result of generalized
| anxiety disorder, so it's worth considering therapy and/or
| medication. That anxiety can just be worries about your job,
| life, and other stressful environments, in which case improving
| your life conditions can alleviate the insomnia. There can be a
| lot of reasons for insomnia that aren't primary insomnia.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| The only advice I'll ever give on insomnia is to keep trying new
| things, and to go ask for help.
|
| I tried just about everything in terms of routine and ritual.
| Years and years of suffering and putting holes in basement
| drywall and believing I'm broken and increasingly frequent
| thoughts of suicide. And I hit a tipping point where the pain
| overcame my stupid stubbornness and I finally went and asked for
| help.
|
| "I don't want Ambien or one of those life destroying drugs. I'd
| rather just go quietly" was my thinking and what I said to I the
| doctor.
|
| Introduced to a newish drug without significant side effects or
| addictiveness and it immediately changed my life. Sleep is now a
| feature as my dreams are incredibly vivid. It changed a family
| member's life too. It didn't do a thing for another close friend.
|
| Just keep trying things. Don't give up.
| grandiego wrote:
| Great for you! Could you give the name of such drug in order to
| ask some feedback from my doctor? Some years ago she prescribed
| one which got me sleeping but I woke up awfully tired (left
| after a week.)
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Lemborexant.
| melvinroest wrote:
| > Just keep trying things. Don't give up.
|
| I agree with this. For me, fixing insomnia has been my number
| one priority for the past 3 years. It's also a fairly easy
| priority as during the day you don't actually need to do a
| whole lot about it other than some reflection. So improvement
| is pretty slowgoing, simply because you only have 1000
| iterations and you're already 3 years older
| dosinga wrote:
| Given your self permission to do something and don't care about
| the sleep is interesting; I have done this, worked on something
| till 2am and then fall asleep and wake up refreshed at 9am
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| That's 7 hours of sleep. I'd be surprised if you didn't feel
| refreshed.
| 127 wrote:
| This might be obvious and trivial to others, but alas. Going to
| bed early at a specified time, shutting down all computers well
| before that and just spending hours relaxing, did absolute
| wonders to the quality of my sleep. I'm using a smart watch to
| measure and the positive impact is an order of magnitude.
|
| At times I entertained the idea that I was an insomniac, but I
| was just stupid. I need to shut down all stimulus well before I
| intend to sleep or it might ruin my entire night.
| orev wrote:
| Also stop all caffeine consumption after 2:00 at the latest.
| balfirevic wrote:
| People go to sleep and wake up at different times. Giving a
| fixed number makes no sense.
| parpfish wrote:
| And people have different caffeine sensitivities.
|
| Im one of the people that can have an after dinner espresso
| late at night with no effect. In fact, too much caffeine
| (like a large energy drink) often has the effect of
| knocking me out and I can barely keep my eyes open
| balfirevic wrote:
| > and just spending hours relaxing
|
| How many hours?
| lazyeye wrote:
| I set up a smart bulb to act as a "color clock" in the evening.
| Every day at 8pm it's orange, 9pm red, 10pm off (sleep time).
| The brightness is very low (dim glow) and all other lights are
| off. 8pm onwards is cool down time. I tend to read mainly after
| 9pm. It really calms you down and keeps you on a consistent
| sleep schedule without the angst of clock-watching. Highly
| recommended.
| melvinroest wrote:
| > Shutting down all computers well before that and just
| spending hours relaxing
|
| Yea, I've sometimes do it this. I have had mixed success with
| it. The opposite of it though is definitely detrimental. It's
| still nice to be able to just relax for other reasons though
| such as less of a focus on (social) media
| melvinroest wrote:
| Since recently I have a fairly good control over my insomnia. Key
| points for me are tackling my biggest issues:
|
| __Issue 1: not wanting to go to bed__
|
| By reflecting on the why and how, I can make myself go to bed
| much easier, even if I don't want to. It's just having a dialogue
| with myself
|
| __Issue 2: not falling asleep__
|
| 1. Low dose of melatonin (0.3 mg): fixes the issue of falling
| asleep. I buy it in the Netherlands. It seems much better
| regulated than the US
|
| 2. Sometimes magnesium: fixes a bit of a restless leg issue I
| have sometimes
|
| __Issue 3: waking up after 4 hours of sleep and not falling
| asleep__
|
| The issue is that I can't take melatonin anymore. I've noticed it
| makes me too woozy during the day. Here is what works for me:
| relax, slow down thoughts; shift hyper alertness to a cozy,
| euphoric and safe state; reducing social media addiction. Let's
| go through these ideas one by one
|
| 1. Relaxation through slow breathing: basic but important. I've
| noticed when I don't do this but do everything else, then I can
| still fall asleep but it's harder
|
| 2. Reducing the speed and frequency of thoughts through breathing
| meditation: if I think too much, I can't sleep. Breathing
| meditation (observing the breath) has taught me how to reduce my
| thoughts. Sometimes I don't even do breathing meditation but I
| just focus on lying still physically and mentally
|
| 3. Increasing feelings of coziness through mindfulness
| meditation: for me the biggest breakthrough has been the focus on
| coziness. Extreme coziness makes my consciousness drift away. So
| even if I don't fall asleep, I don't mind
|
| 4. Increasing feelings of euphoria through mindfulness meditation
| and thinking of pleasant thoughts: in my case that's about being
| at locations I like, with the people I love, doing things I find
| fun. This is in the same vein of "think of pleasant thoughts".
| Well, yea, but it needs to induce a mild euphoric effect which
| aids coziness
|
| 6. Increase feelings of safety by telling myself I am safe:
| simply telling myself I am safe makes me feel more safe. I never
| noticed that I felt unsafe or anything but telling myself I am
| safe makes me feel more safe. Safety increases coziness
|
| 7. Reducing the amount of waking up by reducing social media
| addiction: I don't have data, but the anecdotal evidence on my
| part is that I noticed I woke up more often when I was severely
| addicted to social media. I think in my case it's because
| whenever I wake up, I wake up with a lot of energy. So after 4
| hours of sleep, I feel tremendously awake. I noticed that when I
| wanted (social) media entertainment that I felt even more
| restless. So my suspicion is that feeling restless for more
| entertainment can actually wake you up
|
| These are the strongest things I've noticed that are conductive
| to sleep for me, and I've tried _a lot_. I hope it helps someone.
| Almost no one talks about the feeling of coziness for me, but
| focusing on coziness is where it 's at for me. Relaxation and
| pleasant thoughts are nice, but coziness is the main driver for
| me to fall asleep
|
| There are many more things I do such as knowing what sleeping
| position I sleep best in, controlling temperature, controlling
| light, controlling sound, eyemask, standing up when the sun
| rises, having a sleep journal where I write down every time I
| have had a bad night sleep or really good night of sleep.
| Anything surprising needs to be logged and reflected about.
| Sometimes the answer comes quickly, sometimes it takes years
| adadtttt wrote:
| This sounds like OCD
| pedalpete wrote:
| I'm a life long insomniac which got me into working in
| neurotech/sleeptech about 5 years ago.
|
| People talk about CBT-I, sleep anxiety, etc etc.
|
| From what I've found, this may be great for people with transient
| insomnia, where the stress is the cause of the insomnia. The key
| for these people is often the CBT, which helps the I, not that
| the CBT is to treat the I.
|
| I've come to asking chronic insomniacs "is there something you
| like about being awake in the middle of the night", and I've had
| many responses such as "it's my time to think", "I know I should
| be sleeping, but my mind is enjoying the peacefulness".
|
| I'm not a very stressed person, and I can meditate in the middle
| of the night, and yet still be awake.
| spondylosaurus wrote:
| The "Dog mode" article referenced in the linked article sounds an
| awful lot like mania to me. I wonder if that's a factor here.
| mssuraj wrote:
| Thanks for sharing this! I can relate to a lot of these: * the
| attempts at strict protocols and sleep hygiene (including doing
| CBT-I) * the anxiety loop about sleep itself perpetuating sleep
| disturbances
|
| But accepting wakefulness and often at times when feeling
| inspired, to just go with the flow and getting it out has really
| helped me too! Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night
| anxious, other nights with lot of new ideas, and instead of now
| worrying about them, acknowledging them and dealing with it
| (meditation, journaling, parking them, or just going to work),
| helps me resume sleep even after multi-hour interruptions!
|
| Glad to hear there are others out there too :)
|
| PS: I also wrote a brief post about my own sleep experience if
| anyone's curious!
|
| https://open.substack.com/pub/mssuraj/p/why-we-shouldnt-slee...
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(page generated 2025-02-08 23:01 UTC)