[HN Gopher] Radiation belts detected around Earth after solar storm
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       Radiation belts detected around Earth after solar storm
        
       Author : jandrewrogers
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2025-02-07 16:46 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencealert.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencealert.com)
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | vague memories of Starfish Prime
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime#After_effects
       | 
       | where they accidentally created a new radiation belt in orbit
       | 
       | and destroyed some of the first commercial satellites
        
       | MrGuts wrote:
       | "Mysterious Radiation Belts Detected Around Earth After Epic
       | Solar Storm"
       | 
       | I'm sure there was a 1950's sci-fi movie based on this premise.
        
       | jjulius wrote:
       | This place can really be insufferable sometimes.
       | 
       | Scientists: "Wow, this was new and exciting and we'd never seen
       | it before! This surprised us and made us wonder!"
       | 
       | This Thread: "HOW DARE THEY CALL THIS OUT-OF-THE-ORDINARY THING
       | 'MYSTERIOUS'!!!!!"
        
         | codr7 wrote:
         | Pretending to know everything, and especially being right, is a
         | pretty big thing around here.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | It's the problem with 3rd / 4th level articles, that is, 1st
         | level is a scientific paper, 2nd is a press release, 3rd / 4th
         | are the media and popular science outlets. It's how you get
         | from some numbers / statistics representing a slight dimming in
         | a distant star to artist's renditions of verdant blue/green
         | exoplanets.
         | 
         | But the scientific papers aren't interesting on their own, they
         | need explanation first so people know what it entails, then
         | entertainment so people get interested. Or in this case,
         | provoke outrage so that they get people upset and reacting to
         | it.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | Papers are interesting, but usually much less accessible.
           | There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of scientific
           | reporting. However, many publishers have historically gone
           | overboard with sensationalism, which spurred a lot of knee-
           | jerk reactionary sentiment.
           | 
           | In this case, I don't think it is really warranted. I thought
           | the article was about as straight forward as one could expect
           | for an introduction of this length, and avoided
           | sensationalism. The only hazard mentioned is that to
           | satellites, which is mentioned as a concern on area of
           | research in the original article (which they actually linked
           | for once!).
        
       | roymurdock wrote:
       | Interesting, so the 2 new belts (fields) are closer than the 2
       | stable existing belts (Van Allen Belts) that shield us from
       | radiation.
       | 
       | These fields could affect the launch and operation of satellites.
       | Or maybe they will help shield us further? Or affect our
       | atmosphere in some way? To be studied...
        
       | beretguy wrote:
       | Anton Petrov made a video about Van Allen Belts about 4 years ago
       | where he also talks about a 3rd belt appearing during a solar
       | storm:
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BpMeRWcIxNI
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | I think this article is about a 4th
        
       | cossatot wrote:
       | I wonder how much the Van Allen radiation belts are a contributor
       | to the Fermi paradox, i.e. how much they contributed to providing
       | a suitable place for life to originate and flourish, and how rare
       | they are.
       | 
       | The belts themselves are an effect of Earth's magnetic field,
       | which I believe is particularly strong because of flow within the
       | Earth's liquid iron-nickel outer core. (I had long believed that
       | the spinning of the inner core was the primary contributor but
       | given a surface-level skim of the literature that doesn't seem to
       | be the case; convection seems to be more of a driver.)
       | 
       | I think perhaps many otherwise similar planets don't have a
       | liquid iron core, so they may not have the strong radiation belts
       | that shield life from the solar wind. Of course I am not sure
       | what fraction of otherwise-similar planets have liquid iron
       | cores, but Mars for example does not seem to. It is probably a
       | function of the size of a planet (governing the pressure
       | distribution in the interior), the ratio of iron to other
       | elements, the temperature field (a function of the amount of
       | radiogenic elements in the planet and its age), and perhaps other
       | factors. Other planets may not be hot enough to have a liquid
       | iron core at the right pressures, or be too massive (too much
       | pressure) at the right temperatures, etc.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure that the belts are a requirement for some types
         | of life to originate and survive. Along with Jupiter helping
         | protect us, our location in the galaxy, etc.
        
           | doctoboggan wrote:
           | If abiogenesis occurred in the thermal vents deep under the
           | ocean I believe that could have happened without the
           | radiation protection as the water would be more than
           | adequate.
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | Sure, but small amounts of radiation are beneficial. And
             | those early organisms would eventually ahve to move to the
             | shallows and land and deal with all the masked radiation at
             | some point. It's all speculation, we really have no idea
             | whether it was vents-first or not.
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | I think that solar radiation isn't a direct danger to life, as
         | it is quickly blocked by the surface of oceans and land. If an
         | atmosphere turns out to be a major factor in the development of
         | life, lack of a field could be a bigger impact. That said,
         | atmospheric stripping like what happened to marks isnt sure
         | bet. Venus has no internal Dynamo, but a massive atmosphere,
         | despite 5X the solar radiation.
        
         | jordanb wrote:
         | Earth is the only rocky planet in the solar system with a
         | magnetic core so that'd be 1/4 at least.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | porcoda wrote:
         | I really wish sites would stop with the clickbait style
         | headlines. "Mysterious" is unnecessary here since there isn't
         | much mystery about this. If anything, this kind of wording
         | gives non-experts and non-scientists the wrong message since
         | mysterious often gets read as "scary" or "unexplainable", which
         | is often misleading.
        
           | 52-6F-62 wrote:
           | This is a projection of your inner state onto the word and
           | not the word itself. It truly is a mystery. Like most things.
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | I wonder almost daily why anything at all exists. It's an
             | absolute mystery.
             | 
             | Why isn't there just void? So here we are on a tiny planet
             | alone. Alone?
             | 
             | How did we get here? Are we living in a simulation? Maybe
             | we are in Sim Planet game for another entity?
             | 
             | All of our existence is mystery.
        
               | card_zero wrote:
               | Being in a simulation only makes the question more
               | complicated, in a "turtles all the way down" style.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mJr4c66bs
        
             | allemagne wrote:
             | In the context of a news headline the decision to use the
             | word "mysterious" and "detected" obviously implies a
             | different kind of significance than the inherent mystery in
             | all things. Other comments in this thread already bring up
             | science fiction movies and other radiation-related
             | disasters, I don't think OP is that much out on a limb
             | here.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | I think that is projection too. Mysterious can mean
               | exciting, unknown, and curious.
               | 
               | Why does this bother people? it isn't like the article is
               | inducing mass hysteria.
        
               | card_zero wrote:
               | The article itself vacillates.
               | 
               | > we've seen this phenomenon before
               | 
               | > I said, 'Wow, this is something really new'
               | 
               | > it's unsurprising
               | 
               | > Even so [...] what they saw surprised them.
               | 
               | I mean that's nerdy scientists for you, they get so
               | _into_ their thing it 's kind of disgusting. I watched a
               | documentary about volcanos once, it had a husband and
               | wife team, they were just enthusing endlessly about their
               | particular volcano that they were studying and it really
               | turned me off. This was about 20 years ago and as a
               | result I still hate vulcanologists, they totally overdid
               | the sales pitch.
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | I can only assume you are sarcastic about your hate for
               | scientists that love their work.
        
             | mock-possum wrote:
             | Is it projection, or just a matter of media literacy?
             | 
             | We know what the radiation belt is, where it is, and where
             | it came from; so why exactly is this a 'mystery?'
        
               | s1artibartfast wrote:
               | Great, so we should cancel all scientific research
               | because everything is known. The universe exists: QED. no
               | need to explain or understand phenomenon beyond them
               | having a name
        
             | szundi wrote:
             | So true.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
             | foxglacier wrote:
             | It's a super common behavior on social media. Worrying
             | about what the stupid people might think if they see
             | something. It's always some hypothetical group of lower-
             | thinking people that they worry about, even when there's no
             | sign of them existing. I'd say it's sometimes just
             | pretending to be concerned about harm to others to make
             | their position seem more important and right, and sometimes
             | a fear that other people might believe different (thus
             | obviously wrong and even immoral) things to themselves.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | You broke the site guidelines badly in this thread, more
             | than once. Not cool.
             | 
             | We ban accounts that do this and we've warned you more than
             | once before. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please
             | fix this, that would be good.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | pithanyChan wrote:
           | exciting is the word you are looking for, porcoda. non-expert
           | lurkas find the unexplainable as stimulating as skimming over
           | the mysteries of SDF or speed reading through LSD & Samagon
           | themed anti-communist feel good novels a lae Hesse (Vilnius
           | Rome or something).
           | 
           | Radiation? Radio! Antenas! Thpooky electro-magnetism at a
           | distance? Is that a thing? Is there a chance?
           | 
           | ( Sureley, you understand I'm only half joking here. )
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | It's previously unseen and we don't fully understand it,
           | that's good enough for me to call it mysterious. I don't
           | really care what connotations others may or may not attach to
           | the word.
        
           | salynchnew wrote:
           | While I agree and generally feel the same way, I think it is
           | worth mentioning that the "war for attention" is an
           | existential issue for most online publications these days.
           | The clickbait headlines are used specifically because it
           | marginally increases readership/views, without which the
           | publication would probably cease to exist.
        
             | psychoslave wrote:
             | Definitely, I would however recommend that next time they
             | would instead use something like "mysterious radiation of
             | the forbidden belt clandestinely detected around censored
             | earth after tremendous epic solar that some governments
             | might try to hide, the 42th reason will surprise you"
             | without what I am afraid that the entire staff is going to
             | go through a major life crisis before they even had any
             | child possibly contributing to a quick extinction of human
             | species, warning, danger, how dare you not read the article
             | yet?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Then it must surely be more than just a marginal increase.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | "Epic" stood out more to me than "mysterious" in terms of
           | low-brow clickbaitiness.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Ok, we've made the title less mysterious (and less epic)
           | above.
        
         | hassleblad23 wrote:
         | Nothing mysterious about it.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-07 23:00 UTC)